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Lip Man 1
06-29-2011, 01:10 AM
Does anybody recall any other times that Ozzie is alluding to with Rios?

ď(He / Rios) donít run the bases. Thatís why I got him out of the game. Itís not the (first time) itís happened.Ē

"They donít run the bases, they donít want to play or tired or hurt, that reputation comes with me and I have a great reputation in this (bleeping) game to do (the right) way. They donít run the bases, theyíre out of the game. I donít give a (bleep) if itís (Paul) Konerko or Adam Dunn or anyone.

"If you donít play the game right, youíre out of the game.Ē

Just my opinion but it seems the Sox "haven't been playing the game right" for the past few years when it comes simple fundamentals....why is that an issue now Ozzie?

And you wonder if the frustration is starting to come to a head in that clubhouse...wonder if (or when) a pitcher is going to pop off about this ****ty offense.

Lip

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-29-2011, 01:27 AM
I remember Ozzie doing this before, but that was way back in 2006 and Uribe failed to run on a pop-out.

BainesHOF
06-29-2011, 01:34 AM
The horse is out of the barn, Ozzie, and you're the one who opened it.

Dan H
06-29-2011, 01:56 AM
Maybe Ozzie should be benched. He should have been fired back in May.

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2011, 02:12 AM
There have been plenty of occasions where Rios has taken questionable routes to balls and failed to run out groundballs that he MIGHT have beaten out. The best example I could think of was when Buerhle started against Verlander in Detroit. It took Rios at least one second to get a break on the ball and he dove and it bounced off his glove.

dickallen15
06-29-2011, 07:33 AM
Rios has dogged it plenty of times this year. Kudos to Ozzie for finally doing something about it. IIRC, one of the knocks on Rios when the Sox acquired him for nothing was the scouts said he plays like he doesn't care.

Irishsox1
06-29-2011, 07:45 AM
Finally some one else calls out Rios! He can't hit, he can't steel bases, he's slightly above average in the field and he dogs it. I've always felt that the Sox would be better off without Rios.

russ99
06-29-2011, 08:03 AM
Good to see Ozzie do this. He's been beyond patient with these guys, moving them around the order, playing them, giving them days off, etc. and nothing has worked.

At some point the player has to take responsibility for not playing the way he can. Something tells me the closed door meeting with Ozzie and Dunn yesterday may have had something to do with that too.

Rocky Soprano
06-29-2011, 08:04 AM
:rolleyes:

Ozzie claims to have so much respect for the game yet his actions say something else. Shut up and leave to Florida already.

russ99
06-29-2011, 08:07 AM
:rolleyes:

Ozzie claims to have so much respect for the game yet his actions say something else. Shut up and leave to Florida already.

You're real consistent with your criticism.

We win - Fire Ozzie
We lose - Fire Ozzie
Patience with the players - Fire Ozzie
Finally pointing the finger at the lack of effort - Fire Ozzie.

Rocky Soprano
06-29-2011, 08:11 AM
You're real consistent with your criticism.

We win - Fire Ozzie
We lose - Fire Ozzie
Patience with the players - Fire Ozzie
Finally pointing the finger at the lack of effort - Fire Ozzie.

You're real consistent with making excuses for Ozzie.
Ozzie is the man! Woot Woot!

If you are content with this team, so be it.

russ99
06-29-2011, 08:28 AM
You're real consistent with making excuses for Ozzie.
Ozzie is the man! Woot Woot!

If you are content with this team, so be it.

No, I'm not content with this team. But the answer to everything isn't to fire the manager. Do you really think that this team as it's currently constructed would be any different for another manager?

Some of you would love to blow the whole thing up, but I'd rather have even a maddeningly inconsistent and underachieving team (with solid pitching) and a chance to turn it around over a 100 loss "kids can't play" team again.

Ozzie's trying to get this team going, and he's tried every trick in the book, and some not in the book. Well, other than that blow-up doll...

BringHomeDaBacon
06-29-2011, 08:58 AM
As much as I would like to bash Ozzie, anything Rios related points directly to KW. Shocking that a contract picked up toward the end of the waiver line isn't working out. All picking up someone else's trash does is make it your trash. I remember my Dad referring to the Sox as "the bums" when they were losing (70-80s) It wasn't entirely accurate because they were mostly just bad. Rios, on the other hand, is your prototype "bum" athlete.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 09:53 AM
Last year, Rios played a great centerfield...we were saying he was the best Sox centerfielder in memory. This year,not so much.

Last year,Pierre had the fewest errors in the league in the outfield,and he was 2nd in the league in defensive WAR. This year, he was bad early,but last nite he made a very good diving catch to save runs.

Carlos tries hard out in right,and has not really hurt us that much this year.

Lilly has made several great plays,but last nite he seemed to be suffering altitude sickness. Out of sorts.

Ozzie's fault? Nah. The Sox have hustled for Ozzie. Last year we were extolling how Rios glides to the ball so gracefully,this year, that gliding has turned into ''not hustling''. I think it is just his upright way of running that looks like he is not digging for it. Last nite,clearly,Ozzie saw something,and benched him...good for Ozzie. Wakeup call.

tstrike2000
06-29-2011, 10:08 AM
Ahh, more refreshing feel-good stories to read about our team.

tstrike2000
06-29-2011, 10:09 AM
Do you really think that this team as it's currently constructed would be any different for another manager?

Yes.

Irishsox1
06-29-2011, 10:47 AM
I'm more of a this is Kenny's fault than Ozzie. Kenny has done some things right and some things wrong. Ozzie gets dumped on because he's Ozzie but Kenny built this team and someone is going to have to answer for the Peavy trade, the Edwin Jackson trade, the Rios signing, the Dunn signing, keeping Pierre etc.

Domeshot17
06-29-2011, 11:18 AM
No, I'm not content with this team. But the answer to everything isn't to fire the manager. Do you really think that this team as it's currently constructed would be any different for another manager?

Some of you would love to blow the whole thing up, but I'd rather have even a maddeningly inconsistent and underachieving team (with solid pitching) and a chance to turn it around over a 100 loss "kids can't play" team again.

Ozzie's trying to get this team going, and he's tried every trick in the book, and some not in the book. Well, other than that blow-up doll...

There has been 2 constants in the mix when it comes to losing the last few years (and no, last year was not a good or successful year, we missed the playoffs). Ozzie and Kenny. Last year Ozzie Hemmed and Hawed for Kotsay, and our DH situation cost us the playoffs.

What ultimately has always bothered me is the players never have Ozzie’s back, and that is very telling. MLB players are polled every year by places such as ESPN, and EVERY YEAR Ozzie is the manager voted the manager you want to play for least. You never hear a former player come out in Ozzie’s defense. The only person who has ever referred to Ozzie as a “player’s” manager is Ozzie himself. He talks about the way he played the game, and yes, Ozzie was a scrappy player. He wasn’t all that good.

I don’t so much have a problem with calling out Rios, but it just happens every year, Ozzie picks a guy and throws him under the bus. He has no idea how to handle a bullpen and these guys consistently lack fundamentals and look like they are just going through the motions. Ozzie’s job is to lead and ultimately he has not done that since 2005. Managers who are actually good at their job have had to step in and ask him to shut up (Francona). It has just got tiring. I used to love Ozzie, and I don’t blame him as much for 2006 as others (Playing Mackowiak was brain-dead stupid, but we lost because Jose and Burls ran out of gas).

The back and forth Nats game was the last straw for me. AJ homers and no one on the bench reacts. MLB Network jumps all over it. This team has zero chemistry and isn’t showing much heart. That is a DIRECT reflection of management, and has been that way for years.

Rocky Soprano
06-29-2011, 11:20 AM
No, I'm not content with this team. But the answer to everything isn't to fire the manager. Do you really think that this team as it's currently constructed would be any different for another manager?

Some of you would love to blow the whole thing up, but I'd rather have even a maddeningly inconsistent and underachieving team (with solid pitching) and a chance to turn it around over a 100 loss "kids can't play" team again.

Ozzie's trying to get this team going, and he's tried every trick in the book, and some not in the book. Well, other than that blow-up doll...

Ozzie preaches playing fundamentally sound baseball. Yet this team does not do it. How many times have we seen the team start the season horribly?

Who's fault is that? What the hell does the team do in spring training?

I don't want to see the team blown up. I just want a new manager and hitting coach. You cant leave things the same and expect different results. We've seen this movie and we know how it's going to end.

GoGoCrede
06-29-2011, 11:24 AM
Yikes.....quite the accusation if true. I hope it's not, but even if it isn't, it's still the kind of negative story we don't need.

captain54
06-29-2011, 11:30 AM
The back and forth Nats game was the last straw for me. AJ homers and no one on the bench reacts. MLB Network jumps all over it. This team has zero chemistry and isnít showing much heart. That is a DIRECT reflection of management, and has been that way for years.


This in itself is the most disturbing aspect of the season so far. I makes one think that the problems run a lot deeper than what appears on the surface.

#1swisher
06-29-2011, 11:36 AM
It was reported that Rios has turf toe, possibly arthritis. How painful is this?

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 11:38 AM
What's ironic about this is that Rios' replacement in the game was dogging it, too.

Which seems to me to mean that the manager has lost his team. And when the manager loses his team, you replace the manager.

KMcMahon817
06-29-2011, 12:00 PM
The back and forth Nats game was the last straw for me. AJ homers and no one on the bench reacts. MLB Network jumps all over it. This team has zero chemistry and isnít showing much heart. That is a DIRECT reflection of management, and has been that way for years.

I didn't watch that game as I was out doing other things, but the bench really had no reaction at all?

#1swisher
06-29-2011, 12:19 PM
Listen to Ozzie on WSCR (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/29/guillen-goes-off-after-white-sox-lose/)

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 12:32 PM
I am glad Ozzie did that. Rios, that is BS. I lean towards the coach isn't the one playing. Ozzie, or any coach can do so much. If the coach/manager is putting out the best line-up he can and managing the pen properly that is all you can ask.

JB98
06-29-2011, 12:38 PM
There has been 2 constants in the mix when it comes to losing the last few years (and no, last year was not a good or successful year, we missed the playoffs). Ozzie and Kenny. Last year Ozzie Hemmed and Hawed for Kotsay, and our DH situation cost us the playoffs.

What ultimately has always bothered me is the players never have Ozzieís back, and that is very telling. MLB players are polled every year by places such as ESPN, and EVERY YEAR Ozzie is the manager voted the manager you want to play for least. You never hear a former player come out in Ozzieís defense. The only person who has ever referred to Ozzie as a ďplayerísĒ manager is Ozzie himself. He talks about the way he played the game, and yes, Ozzie was a scrappy player. He wasnít all that good.

I donít so much have a problem with calling out Rios, but it just happens every year, Ozzie picks a guy and throws him under the bus. He has no idea how to handle a bullpen and these guys consistently lack fundamentals and look like they are just going through the motions. Ozzieís job is to lead and ultimately he has not done that since 2005. Managers who are actually good at their job have had to step in and ask him to shut up (Francona). It has just got tiring. I used to love Ozzie, and I donít blame him as much for 2006 as others (Playing Mackowiak was brain-dead stupid, but we lost because Jose and Burls ran out of gas).

The back and forth Nats game was the last straw for me. AJ homers and no one on the bench reacts. MLB Network jumps all over it. This team has zero chemistry and isnít showing much heart. That is a DIRECT reflection of management, and has been that way for years.

That same night, the umpires reversed a call that went in the Sox favor and against the Nationals. The entire Washington bench exploded in rage when that happened. You probably would not see that from the White Sox bench if the situation were reversed. I'm not real big on all that fire and passion crap, but when you see stuff like that you wonder if the Sox have their heads in the game. They often play as if they don't.

pssondacubs
06-29-2011, 12:42 PM
There has been 2 constants in the mix when it comes to losing the last few years (and no, last year was not a good or successful year, we missed the playoffs). Ozzie and Kenny. Last year Ozzie Hemmed and Hawed for Kotsay, and our DH situation cost us the playoffs.

What ultimately has always bothered me is the players never have Ozzieís back, and that is very telling. MLB players are polled every year by places such as ESPN, and EVERY YEAR Ozzie is the manager voted the manager you want to play for least. You never hear a former player come out in Ozzieís defense. The only person who has ever referred to Ozzie as a ďplayerísĒ manager is Ozzie himself. He talks about the way he played the game, and yes, Ozzie was a scrappy player. He wasnít all that good.

I donít so much have a problem with calling out Rios, but it just happens every year, Ozzie picks a guy and throws him under the bus. He has no idea how to handle a bullpen and these guys consistently lack fundamentals and look like they are just going through the motions. Ozzieís job is to lead and ultimately he has not done that since 2005. Managers who are actually good at their job have had to step in and ask him to shut up (Francona). It has just got tiring. I used to love Ozzie, and I donít blame him as much for 2006 as others (Playing Mackowiak was brain-dead stupid, but we lost because Jose and Burls ran out of gas).

The back and forth Nats game was the last straw for me. AJ homers and no one on the bench reacts. MLB Network jumps all over it. This team has zero chemistry and isnít showing much heart. That is a DIRECT reflection of management, and has been that way for years.

Amen!!

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 12:50 PM
What's ironic about this is that Rios' replacement in the game was dogging it, too.

Which seems to me to mean that the manager has lost his team. And when the manager loses his team, you replace the manager.

Overall I've been a fan of Ozzie's- but I have to admit- I had the same impression- how can a utility outfielder play a ball as half hearted as Lillibridge just a few innings after the $15M starter has been benched for not hussling? This team kind of "plays in a fog"- there's no real chemistry or intensity- I didn't see the lack of reaction to AJ's homer- but that is pretty shocking.

No matter how good the manager or GM are- at some point- a new voice is required and it's time for a change- Ozzie has the 4th longest tenure of any manager, KW's has to be up there as well- they could be losing their team.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 12:50 PM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...

JB98
06-29-2011, 12:56 PM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...

Can I like Cabrera, but hate Swisher?

southside rocks
06-29-2011, 01:01 PM
No, I'm not content with this team. But the answer to everything isn't to fire the manager. Do you really think that this team as it's currently constructed would be any different for another manager?

Some of you would love to blow the whole thing up, but I'd rather have even a maddeningly inconsistent and underachieving team (with solid pitching) and a chance to turn it around over a 100 loss "kids can't play" team again.

Ozzie's trying to get this team going, and he's tried every trick in the book, and some not in the book. Well, other than that blow-up doll...

I agree with you. I've followed the White Sox since 1967, and I'm disgusted with the effort (or lack of effort) by this year's team, but Ozzie is not a terrible manager and the current roster won't undergo a transformation simply because he were to leave. The Cubs last year played like a team transformed when Quade took over for Sweet Lou, but this year the Cubs are back to the sucky team they truly are.

The Sox aren't a bad team on paper and I can't understand why they're playing so poorly. But sometimes there aren't any visible explanations for stuff like this. I'm just glad I can turn off the TV and go outside and take my dogs to a park, or do something that doesn't make me crazy. I'm watching a lot fewer games this year.

Some media figure, I don't recall which one, said that the Chicago fans are remarkable in their unwillingness to hold players accountable for bad performance; that they always want to blame management, coaches or field managers, never the players who make such enormous salaries. I don't know why that is.

IMO Rios is Rios no matter who manages him, and he's a million dollars worth of promise and two cents on delivery, to quote Mark Harris. There are quite a few players like that. The trick is to have as few as possible of that type on a team -- good luck with that!

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 01:16 PM
I agree with you. I've followed the White Sox since 1967, and I'm disgusted with the effort (or lack of effort) by this year's team, but Ozzie is not a terrible manager and the current roster won't undergo a transformation simply because he were to leave. The Cubs last year played like a team transformed when Quade took over for Sweet Lou, but this year the Cubs are back to the sucky team they truly are.

The Sox aren't a bad team on paper and I can't understand why they're playing so poorly. But sometimes there aren't any visible explanations for stuff like this. I'm just glad I can turn off the TV and go outside and take my dogs to a park, or do something that doesn't make me crazy. I'm watching a lot fewer games this year.

Some media figure, I don't recall which one, said that the Chicago fans are remarkable in their unwillingness to hold players accountable for bad performance; that they always want to blame management, coaches or field managers, never the players who make such enormous salaries. I don't know why that is.

IMO Rios is Rios no matter who manages him, and he's a million dollars worth of promise and two cents on delivery, to quote Mark Harris. There are quite a few players like that. The trick is to have as few as possible of that type on a team -- good luck with that!

That's not a Chicago thing, I think that's true across the board. And I think it's because if the problem is the manager, then you can change the manager and the fortunes of the team. If the problem is the players, than your team just sucks and won't be able to do anything. It's much easier thinking it's just a motivational issue or something and a quick fix is easy to accomplish.

jdm2662
06-29-2011, 01:16 PM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...

Say want you want about the team and Ozzie (there are plenty of things to be said), but Swisher wet his own bed when he was here. He sucked down the stretch and pouted like a little bitch when he was benched. Has he had some success in NY? Sure, an average major league hitter would look good in that lineup. Swisher had NOTHING to do with the ring the Yankees earned. In fact, he was benched in the World Series for a utility IF. I love how this fact is always left out. Yes, he sucked even more in the playoffs than he did down the stretch for the White Sox. But hey, he's that cool guy in the clubhouse that everyone loved. Had he hit worth a damn down the stretch, it wouldn't be an issue.

As for Caberea, there is a reason why he has bounced around the league. He's a solid player, but he's not liked every where he goes. The White Sox just happened to be one of those teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Fenway flat said this in the past when he was with the Red Sox.

I am not making any excuses for Ozzie or the team in general. I want Ozzie fired as much as the next guy, but sorry, I don't let other people off the hook because of it. When you are to blame, I put blame on you, too.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 01:32 PM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...

Swisher was a tool and a self promoter- I'm glad he's gone.

captain54
06-29-2011, 01:45 PM
Good to see Ozzie do this. He's been beyond patient with these guys, moving them around the order, playing them, giving them days off, etc. and nothing has worked.

At some point the player has to take responsibility for not playing the way he can. Something tells me the closed door meeting with Ozzie and Dunn yesterday may have had something to do with that too.

Its great that Ozzie is making the players accountable for their failures..

But when does management and the organization get its turn to be held accountable? The Sox havent done jack squat since 05'.. and now we're stuck with a sleepwalking offense, no farm system, a bunch of bad contracts, and a lethargic dugout... all resulting in a $127 M team that is below .500 and a miserable record against their own division.

If the players get tossed under bus, only fair that Ozzie, KW, JR and Walker take their turn too.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 01:47 PM
Can I like Cabrera, but hate Swisher?

I'll take it.

Say want you want about the team and Ozzie (there are plenty of things to be said), but Swisher wet his own bed when he was here. He sucked down the stretch and pouted like a little bitch when he was benched. Has he had some success in NY? Sure, an average major league hitter would look good in that lineup. Swisher had NOTHING to do with the ring the Yankees earned. In fact, he was benched in the World Series for a utility IF. I love how this fact is always left out. Yes, he sucked even more in the playoffs than he did down the stretch for the White Sox. But hey, he's that cool guy in the clubhouse that everyone loved. Had he hit worth a damn down the stretch, it wouldn't be an issue.

As for Caberea, there is a reason why he has bounced around the league. He's a solid player, but he's not liked every where he goes. The White Sox just happened to be one of those teams. Nothing more, nothing less. Fenway flat said this in the past when he was with the Red Sox.

I am not making any excuses for Ozzie or the team in general. I want Ozzie fired as much as the next guy, but sorry, I don't let other people off the hook because of it. When you are to blame, I put blame on you, too.

Ozzie is okay but in regard to Swisher... Yes he was bad in the WS. However, he was okay during the season and last year did great for them. He is an average player but brings what is needed in this clubhouse. Trust me, it makes a difference. I know O-Cab isn't always liked but he gets the job done and is a leader. I would rather have that than what is there now. I like Paulie but he is to quiet. Even in 2005, Ozzie called him a quiet leader (Sox Pride DVD for reference).

Swisher was a tool and a self promoter- I'm glad he's gone.

He's not a tool. He and the Sox just weren't meant to be.

jdm2662
06-29-2011, 01:57 PM
Ozzie is okay but in regard to Swisher... Yes he was bad in the WS. However, he was okay during the season and last year did great for them. He is an average player but brings what is needed in this clubhouse. Trust me, it makes a difference. I know O-Cab isn't always liked but he gets the job done and is a leader. I would rather have that than what is there now. I like Paulie but he is to quiet. Even in 2005, Ozzie called him a quiet leader (Sox Pride DVD for reference).

That was my point. An average hitter would look good in the Yankees lineup. He didn't just suck in the WS. He sucked in the entire playoffs. And, I can be this cool guy, that high fives all the players, show some life in the clubhouse, and be an awesome guy to hang out with. And you know what? It would make no difference because I'd be worst player in the major leagues. I would get shrugged off as an annoying scrub, which is exactly what Swisher was in the second half of 2008.

Carolina Kenny
06-29-2011, 02:01 PM
If the Sox don't turn things around soon, it is bound to get ugly.

Very ugly.

Uncle Jerry has done his part trying to repeat 2005.

Uncle Jerry is loyal to a fault some say. Uncle Jerry is not getting any younger.

Uncle Jerry is unafraid to make big moves and big decisions regarding the future of the White Sox.

Uncle Jerry is the boss pure and simple. Look to Uncle Jerry to make dramatic changes if this trainwreck continues.

Just my opinion and gut feeling. I am not connected to any special knowledge other than watching this organization for over 50 years.

Soxman219
06-29-2011, 02:54 PM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...

Agreed, never got why people here hated Swisher or Caberra.

Domeshot17
06-29-2011, 03:23 PM
I didn't watch that game as I was out doing other things, but the bench really had no reaction at all?

Harold Reynolds goes (something like not word for word forget word for word) "Maybe they are just tired because its an extra inning game"

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-29-2011, 04:05 PM
Agreed, never got why people here hated Swisher or Caberra.

Because Swisher was a whiny bitch who was bad at baseball while on the Sox, and Cabrera was a loudmouth who cared more about the scorekeepers than improving his defense. Cabrera lost all credibility with me after he talked smack to Balfour in the playoffs and got blown away on three straight pitches.

Good for Swish, he was the 24th best player on a STACKED Yankee team and rode that to a ring. That still doesn't mean he's not the same guy who would routinely watch strike three cross the heart of the plate in critical situations for us, then cry and bitch about how he wasn't treated fairly.

Guess what, hit better than .230 and you'd be in more often and also wouldn't be reviled by the fans to boot.

VMSNS
06-29-2011, 04:42 PM
This team is a ****ing disaster.

kittle42
06-29-2011, 04:47 PM
This team is a ****ing disaster.

We have a winner!

fram40
06-29-2011, 06:08 PM
Does anybody recall any other times that Ozzie is alluding to with Rios?

ď(He / Rios) donít run the bases. Thatís why I got him out of the game. Itís not the (first time) itís happened.Ē

"They donít run the bases, they donít want to play or tired or hurt, that reputation comes with me and I have a great reputation in this (bleeping) game to do (the right) way. They donít run the bases, theyíre out of the game. I donít give a (bleep) if itís (Paul) Konerko or Adam Dunn or anyone.

"If you donít play the game right, youíre out of the game.Ē

Just my opinion but it seems the Sox "haven't been playing the game right" for the past few years when it comes simple fundamentals....why is that an issue now Ozzie?

And you wonder if the frustration is starting to come to a head in that clubhouse...wonder if (or when) a pitcher is going to pop off about this ****ty offense.

Lip

For Ozzie, it's not about fundamentals or execution or baseball smarts.

It is about effort. His entire managerial career - the only times he has called out specific players is for poor effort.

billyvsox
06-29-2011, 06:52 PM
This team is a ****ing disaster.

Agreed...let the slide begin. IMO this is the beginning of the end of the season, Ozzie, maybe KW, etc. The team hung in for a while solely on some great pitching, but the splinter clubhouse will never change now until a new manager is brought in to right the ship.

For the poster who said he is suprised because this team is good on paper?

Well, here is what the PAPER shows:

Pierre (pathetic OBP for a leadoff hitter, defense has been awful and lost his speed)
Rios (hitting like .220, worst CF in baseball IMO, dogs it?)
Dunn (joke of a player, too many K's, dosent seem to care, all about money)
Quentin (good hitter but streaky)
Morel (still trying to figure out his place as a rookie)
Alexei (talented but NO baseball IQ)
Vizquel (wayyyy past prime)
Teahan (occasional hitter, but overall nothing special)

IMO AJ, Konerko and Beckham have the heart and desire even though Beckham struggles at the plate, he is smart, plays good d are cares. No doubt AJ tries hard and is still productive, was pis***ed last night and I wish others would show it - I think his desire is unmatched on this team. Paulie is just a quiet but really a great player hands down.

Also, the whole pitching staff seems to get it and try hard and stay together (Cooper influence?)

This team is just not fun to watch...I stay engaged cause of Paulie, Beckham and Aj, nothing more

Domeshot17
06-29-2011, 10:10 PM
Agreed...let the slide begin. IMO this is the beginning of the end of the season, Ozzie, maybe KW, etc. The team hung in for a while solely on some great pitching, but the splinter clubhouse will never change now until a new manager is brought in to right the ship.

For the poster who said he is suprised because this team is good on paper?

Well, here is what the PAPER shows:

Pierre (pathetic OBP for a leadoff hitter, defense has been awful and lost his speed)
Rios (hitting like .220, worst CF in baseball IMO, dogs it?)
Dunn (joke of a player, too many K's, dosent seem to care, all about money)
Quentin (good hitter but streaky)
Morel (still trying to figure out his place as a rookie)
Alexei (talented but NO baseball IQ)
Vizquel (wayyyy past prime)
Teahan (occasional hitter, but overall nothing special)

IMO AJ, Konerko and Beckham have the heart and desire even though Beckham struggles at the plate, he is smart, plays good d are cares. No doubt AJ tries hard and is still productive, was pis***ed last night and I wish others would show it - I think his desire is unmatched on this team. Paulie is just a quiet but really a great player hands down.

Also, the whole pitching staff seems to get it and try hard and stay together (Cooper influence?)

This team is just not fun to watch...I stay engaged cause of Paulie, Beckham and Aj, nothing more

Totally Disagree on Dunn. The guy seems completely lost at the plate but is trying to do anything and everything to break out of it. The guy really cares, and you can tell it is REALLY bothering him how much he has struggled. His struggles seem very mental. He is walking up to the plate thinking DON'T STRIKEOUT. But he is trying. He is even going to be taking full speed batting practice to try and see pitches better.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 10:22 PM
Because Swisher was a whiny bitch who was bad at baseball while on the Sox, and Cabrera was a loudmouth who cared more about the scorekeepers than improving his defense. Cabrera lost all credibility with me after he talked smack to Balfour in the playoffs and got blown away on three straight pitches.

Good for Swish, he was the 24th best player on a STACKED Yankee team and rode that to a ring. That still doesn't mean he's not the same guy who would routinely watch strike three cross the heart of the plate in critical situations for us, then cry and bitch about how he wasn't treated fairly.

Guess what, hit better than .230 and you'd be in more often and also wouldn't be reviled by the fans to boot.

Okay enjoy this wonderful Swisher/O-Cab free team that is going to the playoffs hell they gonna win it all! ppssshhh

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 10:24 PM
That was my point. An average hitter would look good in the Yankees lineup. He didn't just suck in the WS. He sucked in the entire playoffs. And, I can be this cool guy, that high fives all the players, show some life in the clubhouse, and be an awesome guy to hang out with. And you know what? It would make no difference because I'd be worst player in the major leagues. I would get shrugged off as an annoying scrub, which is exactly what Swisher was in the second half of 2008.

He had ONE bad year like this happened to be with this team. Maybe the Sox are more to blame. I would take Swisher's side over the White Sox any day.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-29-2011, 10:33 PM
Okay enjoy this wonderful Swisher/O-Cab free team that is going to the playoffs hell they gonna win it all! ppssshhh

Yeah, because Swisher and Cabrera were the reason we made it to the playoffs that year. Not because of some Quentin guy or that Thome hack, right?

Brian26
06-29-2011, 10:41 PM
Yeah, because Swisher and Cabrera were the reason we made it to the playoffs that year. Not because of some Quentin guy or that Thome hack, right?

If only Swish could have had his way and brought his dad on-board to be his fully-uniformed personal batting coach, perhaps the Sox could have made it to the World Series that year.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 10:42 PM
Yeah, because Swisher and Cabrera were the reason we made it to the playoffs that year. Not because of some Quentin guy or that Thome hack, right?

Actually they did help and yeah Thome hit one but we had to get to that point, didn't we?

Lip Man 1
06-29-2011, 11:00 PM
Folks Cabrera didn't have a bad year with the Sox.

161 games, 93 runs, 186 hits, 33 doubles, 57 RBI's, 19 steals and he hit .281.

I'd take that from four or five guys on this years club wouldn't you?

Also I recently rewatched the Sox 2008 season highlight video. It seemed anytime a teammate did something good, won a game with a walk-off things like that, Cabrera was the first guy out of the dugout to congratulate them. (at least on the video).

Lip

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 11:05 PM
Folks Cabrera didn't have a bad year with the Sox.

161 games, 93 runs, 186 hits, 33 doubles, 57 RBI's, 19 steals and he hit .281.

I'd take that from four or five guys on this years club wouldn't you?

Also I recently rewatched the Sox 2008 season highlight video. It seemed anytime a teammate did something good, won a game with a walk-off things like that, Cabrera was the first guy out of the dugout to congratulate them. (at least on the video).

Lip

Thank you and I know I would. It's funny, know that I think of it. Cabrera and Swisher were the ones who did the Captain Morgan celebration.

JB98
06-29-2011, 11:13 PM
He had ONE bad year like this happened to be with this team. Maybe the Sox are more to blame. I would take Swisher's side over the White Sox any day.

I'm on your side as far as Cabrera goes. His personality is abrasive to some, yes, and that's why he hops from team to team. But he knows what he's doing on the field. He helps teams win. He did a good job for the White Sox the one year he was here.

Swisher, though, is a clown. He's "always smiling," until things stop going his way. I would have gladly driven his ass to the airport when he left Chicago.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-29-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm on your side as far as Cabrera goes. His personality is abrasive to some, yes, and that's why he hops from team to team. But he knows what he's doing on the field. He helps teams win. He did a good job for the White Sox the one year he was here.

Swisher, though, is a clown. He's "always smiling," until things stop going his way. I would have gladly driven his ass to the airport when he left Chicago.

Fair enough. Thanks for your honesty.

mzh
06-29-2011, 11:25 PM
How much of Swisher's NY numbers are a product of the lefty short porch in right field and having protection from Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez? Nobody can say for sure, but what I can say for a fact is that Swisher batted under .224 for 5 of the 6 months he was a White Sox, and least Adam Dunn doesn't complain when he rides the bench after hitting sub-.200 for 3 months out of the year, which Swisher also did with the Sox.

Being a 'morale booster' only goes so far when you hit .190 during the last 2 months of a playoff run.

In hindsight, I'm sure we would have loved to have Cabrera back for 2009 and maybe 2010. We definitely could have used the OBP at the top of the lineup in 09. But if you think about it, there really wasn't any room. Even if the decision to keep Ramirez at 2nd base was made, that still doesn't leave room for Gordon Beckham anywhere given that at the time Fields was slotted for 3rd base, and both Beckham and Getz seemed like legitimate (not to mention cheaper) candidates to start somewhere in the infield.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-29-2011, 11:47 PM
Folks Cabrera didn't have a bad year with the Sox.

161 games, 93 runs, 186 hits, 33 doubles, 57 RBI's, 19 steals and he hit .281.

I'd take that from four or five guys on this years club wouldn't you?

Also I recently rewatched the Sox 2008 season highlight video. It seemed anytime a teammate did something good, won a game with a walk-off things like that, Cabrera was the first guy out of the dugout to congratulate them. (at least on the video).

Lip

I never said that Cabrera didn't help...he actually was very solid. I just wasn't a big fan of his complaining to the scorekeepers about errors. You're a shortstop, probably the most error-prone position in the majors. Errors happen, dude, shake them off and get back on the horse instead of bitching about it to the scorekeepers.

Nellie_Fox
06-30-2011, 12:13 AM
In regard to AJ, Swisher was treated the same way. His whole team left him hanging. It's no wonder why this team has done ZERO since Swish and O-Cab left and all the fans hate them. Swish brings the energy and O-Cab brings leadership just face it. Swish is loved in NY and has a ring. O-Cab is always on a play-off team. Hate em all ya want...If "O-Cab" (dear lord, is the lame-ass first initial, first syllable, unimaginative nickname thing EVER going away?) is such a leader and winner, why are so many teams so quick to get rid of him after the year is over?

He had ONE bad year like this happened to be with this team. Maybe the Sox are more to blame. I would take Swisher's side over the White Sox any day.There's some team loyalty.

GoGoCrede
06-30-2011, 12:17 AM
He had ONE bad year like this happened to be with this team. Maybe the Sox are more to blame. I would take Swisher's side over the White Sox any day.

Eeek....let's not get crazy here. Swisher is a tool.

Bob Roarman
06-30-2011, 12:21 AM
How much of Swisher's NY numbers are a product of the lefty short porch in right field and having protection from Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez? Nobody can say for sure, but what I can say for a fact is that Swisher batted under .224 for 5 of the 6 months he was a White Sox, and least Adam Dunn doesn't complain when he rides the bench after hitting sub-.200 for 3 months out of the year, which Swisher also did with the Sox.



His home/away splits say something different. In 09' with the Yankees he hit around .230 with 8 homers and and 20 something RBIs with 75 games at home. On the road he hit .280 with 21 home runs and 55 RBIs in 75 games.

In 10' they were almost identical, both around .285 and 15 homers with 45 RBIs.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-30-2011, 08:39 AM
His home/away splits say something different. In 09' with the Yankees he hit around .230 with 8 homers and and 20 something RBIs with 75 games at home. On the road he hit .280 with 21 home runs and 55 RBIs in 75 games.

In 10' they were almost identical, both around .285 and 15 homers with 45 RBIs.

This is true. I do remember him being better (or at least more HR) on the road.

TheOldRoman
06-30-2011, 09:22 AM
If only Swish could have had his way and brought his dad on-board to be his fully-uniformed personal batting coach, perhaps the Sox could have made it to the World Series that year.I don't buy it. That "only listens to his dad" stuff was cooked up by the Sox to cover their asses. Unless the Sox banned his dad from team facilities while the A's and Yankees allowed him in, I can't see why his dad would be so ineffective coaching him in 2008 while doing much better other years. The problem was that he got sucked into the Walkerian vortex of of slumpitude.

tstrike2000
06-30-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't buy it. That "only listens to his dad" stuff was cooked up by the Sox to cover their asses. Unless the Sox banned his dad from team facilities while the A's and Yankees allowed him in, I can't see why his dad would be so ineffective coaching him in 2008 while doing much better other years. The problem was that he got sucked into the Walkerian vortex of of slumpitude.

Walkerian vortex. I like that. It's like the White Sox black hole of hitting.

sunofgold
06-30-2011, 10:29 AM
Blame It On Rios. Sequel to Blame It On Rio. The liked the original better.

MetroPD
06-30-2011, 08:36 PM
Me too, it was a bigger hit.