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View Full Version : *Official* We Deserved That Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:28 AM
You snooze, you lose.

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:28 AM
Same stuff, different day.

cleanwsox
06-29-2011, 12:29 AM
**** these hitters.

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:29 AM
Is it sad that I just felt relieved seeing the game end?

soxnut1018
06-29-2011, 12:29 AM
I did not enjoy that movie at all. It was boring, predictable, way too long, and by the end I really found myself hating most of the major characters.

JB98
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Bad team doing what bad teams do.

Don't care if they are "only" five games out. They aren't making a run as currently constructed, because they are bad.

We need a regime change, in the front office and in the dugout.

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Ugh.

Was Lillibridge napping on that play? I didn't see much effort.

kittle42
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
It's early. Plenty of games left to play. It's cold out.

CHISOXFAN13
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Nice effort, Lillibridge.

SoxSpeed22
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
This team finds new ways to achieve the impossible.

TommyGavinFloyd
06-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Lillibridge is back to normal.

JB98
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
It's early. Plenty of games left to play. It's cold out.

Just wait until the weather warms up. Then somebody's gonna pay!

These guys stink.

SBSoxFan
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Same stuff, different day.

Not really, they found a new way to lose. :angry:

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Wow, that's the worst play Brent has made all year. He'll be benched for awhile for that.

voodoochile
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...

Tragg
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Yahoo said it was a single to shallow center and he scored from first. Yikes!

Agree with JB - change in the dugout AND the front office.

billyvsox
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
But I guess there is no way Viciedo could help this team right! ****ing joke, baseball 101 costs us another one.

AJ was p****ed, just stared back out to Lillibridge, at least he cares, dosent seem like anyone else does.

But I'm sure Viciedo couldn't help this team cause there is no where to play....hahahhahahahahahahahah

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Not really, they found a new way to lose. :angry:

Good start by the SP, our good relievers shut things down for a few innings, hitters can barely get the ball out of the infield.

Same ****, different day to me.

Zakath
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Ugh.

Was Lillibridge napping on that play? I didn't see much effort.

He did that earlier on a very similar hit.

Pitchers did their job tonight. Offense, and eventually defense, killed them.

vinny
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Is it sad that I just felt relieved seeing the game end?
Serious. Now I can go to bed without watching us wave pathetically at pitches down and away.

And we can't catch up to either the Toons or Kitties. **** this offense.

JB98
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...

Pierre and Rios are awful, too.

It's just a bad team. Bad players everywhere.

Too bad because the pitchers are good enough to compete in the American League.

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...

Who?

AJ and Ozzie certainly were pissed.

doublem23
06-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...

Well, to be fair, in the scorecard of defensive gaffes that have cost the Sox a win, Juan Pierre still has a pretty commanding lead.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 12:33 AM
I did not enjoy that movie at all. It was boring, predictable, way too long, and by the end I really found myself hating most of the major characters.

:clap:

I decided to watch my first game in over a month, and this is my reward. Good to know the team's still ****ty.

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:33 AM
Pierre and Rios are awful, too.

It's just a bad team. Bad players everywhere.

Too bad because the pitchers are good enough to compete in the American League.

Pretty much. Still don't see much reason to believe this is anything more than a .500 team.

Blueprint1
06-29-2011, 12:33 AM
I would really like to see someone held accountable for how this team has been playing.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-29-2011, 12:33 AM
Roster overhaul please.Somebody would want a few of these stiffs,right ?

Crooked Number
06-29-2011, 12:33 AM
What a fitting way to end it.

Lillibridge are you...serious?

What an absolute bunch of clowns. Rios with his clown drop, Lillibridge comes in for him and makes a play 20 times worse to end the game.

Didn't matter, because this offense is about as bad as I've ever seen it since 2000. (07 ommitted because of injuries and aaa players)

Pathetic. Embarrassing. Tigers and Indians watching this play on sportcenter later giggling. "We don't have to worry about these jokers"

Dibbs
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Wow, looks like Lilibeast has quite the lilie arm alright. I could have made a stronger throw without warming up. Not only that, he was practically walking to the ball. I wouldn't play the guy for a week after an effort like that.

vinny
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Nice effort, Lillibridge.

It's not his fault. The wind was blowing out to center and his ears slowed him to a crawl.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Clearly Dauer saw how casual Lilly was on that earlier play in center when they did not send the runner and figured he would count on Lilly to be casual again....that is infuriatiing...he only has one thing to do, run hard straight forward pick that ball and throw to the plate ASAP !!!

Alex hurt or something? Our outfield play has been atrocious at times this year...and our clutch hitting...non-existant.

Daver
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...

It gets worse, the majority want Dayan Viciedo to play RF, talk about scary bad...

CHISOXFAN13
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Well, to be fair, in the scorecard of defensive gaffes that have cost the Sox a win, Juan Pierre still has a pretty commanding lead.

As much as Pierre sucks, I can't remember him costing us a game with failure to give effort. He's just a lousy outfielder.

The same can't be said for Lillibridge.

Cost us a game swinging for the fences with the bases loaded and one out on Friday and now this.

Hendu
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
This game could have gone at least another 10 innings without the Sox threatening to score.

Watching the Rockies walk off...when was the last time we had one of those? April?

And Brent...c'mon man.

SBSoxFan
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
Yahoo said it was a single to shallow center and he scored from first. Yikes!

Agree with JB - change in the dugout AND the front office.

Home field win there plus lack of hustle from Lillibridge. He was playing very deep. That's a huge CF. By the time he got to the ball, the runner was near third. It wasn't even close at home.

BainesHOF
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
So this is what it's come to? Even Lillibridge is falling asleep.

Two brutal plays in center field by two different players and Walker's Hitless Wonders lose again.

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
Tigers and Indians watching this play on sportcenter later giggling. "We don't have to worry about these jokers"
Go ahead. Let them laugh. We shouldn't care. We're major pretenders and we all know it.

PalehosePlanet
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
In so many of these games after we blow a whole bunch of chances to score early, the offense just packs it in and never threaten again.

This is hard to watch.

Another excellent effort from all of our pitchers tonight, including Ohman, gone to waste.

billyvsox
06-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Roster overhaul please.Somebody would want a few of these stiffs,right ?

Just DFA a bunch of them.

I would so rather watch Viciedo, Danks, Flowers, and other young guys who WILL PLAY HARD, even if they lose regularly, it still would be better then this crap

vinny
06-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Pretty much. Still don't see much reason to believe this is anything more than a .500 team.
That's pretty optimistic. Maybe a 3 games below .500 team.

Crestani
06-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Everyone still want Brett starting everyday?

That was a brutal way to lose a game...


Exactly...!!!:angry:

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:37 AM
Looking at the box score, I'm not surprised to see that we only managed 2 hits once again with risp.

Surely can't blame Greg Walker for anything.

On a side note: good for JP by collecting three hits. This worries me though as I believe Ozzie will take this aberration as proof that Pierre is not the 2nd worst player in baseball.

chisoxfanatic
06-29-2011, 12:38 AM
Bad team doing what bad teams do.

Don't care if they are "only" five games out. They aren't making a run as currently constructed, because they are bad.

We need a regime change, in the front office and in the dugout.
This team needs an enema. It's not early anymore...After tomorrow's game, they will be halfway through their schedule. They're lucky to be 5 games out playing like this.

Crestani
06-29-2011, 12:38 AM
By the way, nice sacrifice fly by TCQ in the 5th with bases loaded and one out...!!!:angry:

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:39 AM
Someone mentioned a misplay by Rios? What happened? I was in class until the the 12th.

Noneck
06-29-2011, 12:39 AM
Why did Rios leave the game?

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
It gets worse, the majority want Dayan Viciedo to play RF, talk about scary bad...

He's actually not as bad as you think.

Definitely not a gold glover, but he's adequate and has a rocket for an arm.

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
Someone mentioned a misplay by Rios? What happened? I was in class until the the 12th.

Caught a fly ball in his glove, only to drop it.

amsteel
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
How this team is only 4-8 in extra inning games is astounding. I think we all knew this game was over in the 6th when the Rockies scored their 2nd run. There is no sense of confidence or urgency late in games.

Another day, another winnable game lost in familiar fashion.

Zakath
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
Someone mentioned a misplay by Rios? What happened? I was in class until the the 12th.

Error on a fly ball hit by the pitcher in the bottom of the fifth with two outs.

Floyd pitched over it and got Gonzalez to ground out.

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
This team needs an enema. It's not early anymore...After tomorrow's game, they will be halfway through their schedule. They're lucky to be 5 games out playing like this.
Extremely lucky. It's like the god of the wind in The Odyssey aligning everything so the crew can sail home safely and they pull crap like this in response, so the god refuses to help them again.

russ99
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
Can't win if you don't score runs.

How long will this kind of game reoccur before the do something about it?

doublem23
06-29-2011, 12:40 AM
He's actually not as bad as you think.

Definitely not a gold glover, but he's adequate and has a rocket for an arm.

It's really not even worth the argument, in Daver's perfect world, the Sox would have 9 defensive specialists and if they only scored 1-2 runs per game, THAT SHOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH.

SoxNation05
06-29-2011, 12:41 AM
What happened to Rios?

WhiteSoxOnly
06-29-2011, 12:41 AM
Caught a fly ball in his glove, only to drop it.

Must have been a heavy ball.

Daver
06-29-2011, 12:41 AM
He's actually not as bad as you think.

Definitely not a gold glover, but he's adequate and has a rocket for an arm.

I've got five games worth of tape from this season, he's terrible and has no idea where to throw the damn ball.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 12:41 AM
Looking at the box score, I'm not surprised to see that we only managed 2 hits once again with risp.

Surely can't blame Greg Walker for anything.

On a side note: good for JP by collecting three hits. This worries me though as I believe Ozzie will take this aberration as proof that Pierre is not the 2nd worst player in baseball.

Yea,you're right,Juan needs to be benched immediately,after all he had 3 of our 8 hits....sit him the rest of the week...so that Lilly can come in and save the day. Juan is 3rd on this team in hits, with 79,but the second worst player in all of baseball....screw WAR...we got 3-4 worse players on this team alone.
:D:

Crooked Number
06-29-2011, 12:42 AM
Why did Rios leave the game?

This was up for debate in the game thread. He made a defensive gaffe in center on a lazy floating line drive. He dropped it casually jogging towards it, it was a can of corn. Then he batted again, and played another inning, only to be replaced by Lilli later.

I mentioned that he was benched, others didn't think so. I thought he was benched for the miscue, but that doesn't explain why he still hit and played after the drop.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 12:42 AM
What happened to Rios?

He got paid, he got lazy.

But I'm sure you're asking about tonight.

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:42 AM
Must have been a heavy ball.

:redface::redneck

doublem23
06-29-2011, 12:42 AM
I've got five games worth of tape from this season, he's terrible and has no idea where to throw the damn ball.

:rolling:

5 games worth of tape?

Dear Lord

DSpivack
06-29-2011, 12:43 AM
He got paid, he got lazy.

But I'm sure you're asking about tonight.

Then we had two lazy CFers tonight.

SoxNation05
06-29-2011, 12:43 AM
This was up for debate in the game thread. He made a defensive gaffe in center on a lazy floating line drive. He dropped it casually jogging towards it, it was a can of corn. Then he batted again, and played another inning, only to be replaced by Lilli later.

I mentioned that he was benched, others didn't think so. I thought he was benched for the miscue, but that doesn't explain why he still hit and played after the drop.
Yeah, I saw the game wasn't at the computer though. I noticed all the things you said so I would guess injury but there was no mention from Hawk or Stone.

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:43 AM
:rolling:

5 games worth of tape?

Dear Lord
And that's a bad thing why?

Noneck
06-29-2011, 12:44 AM
I've got five games worth of tape from this season, he's terrible and has no idea where to throw the damn ball.

Half a season playing OF for the 1st time in his pro career at charlotte and hes not a good fielder yet, shocking.

Zakath
06-29-2011, 12:44 AM
Then we had two lazy CFers tonight.

Rios was lazy once, Lillibridge twice.

Still can't believe he took that long to get there.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-29-2011, 12:45 AM
pinch hitting and running with Omar Vizquel - LOL

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:45 AM
He's actually not as bad as you think.

Definitely not a gold glover, but he's adequate and has a rocket for an arm.

I want Dayan up too, but I've not heard kind things about his defense. Tolerable is the best I've seen him described.

Daver
06-29-2011, 12:46 AM
:rolling:

5 games worth of tape?

Dear Lord


How much of watching a player stand four feet from the warning track looking confused does it really take?

DirtySox
06-29-2011, 12:46 AM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
Oz pulled rios because he didn't hustle on bases
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 12:46 AM
I have a feeling Walker will be canned during the AS break. That may not be the answer but can they seriously just sit and do nothing? I think his days are numbered.

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:47 AM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
Oz pulled rios because he didn't hustle on bases
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Oh the irony.

SI1020
06-29-2011, 12:47 AM
:rolling:

5 games worth of tape?

Dear Lord What's funny about it? Some of us have seen him play. He is an adventure in the field no matter where you put him. People build him up because the Sox farm system is so awful.

Soxfest
06-29-2011, 12:47 AM
This is a lazy team they care about the 15th and the 30th. GM says he cannot make changes because OG wants none. I'm sorry this is a sub .500 team I do not care what OG wants. KW acts like this team is 20 games over .500!:angry:

Soxfest
06-29-2011, 12:48 AM
why did rios leave the game?
lazy!

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 12:48 AM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
Oz pulled rios because he didn't hustle on bases
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Postgame should be fun. More than the game, for sure. :gulp:

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 12:48 AM
I have a feeling Walker will be canned during the AS break. That may not be the answer but can they seriously just sit and do nothing? I think his days are numbered.

Don't hold your breath on that one. I would be absolutely shocked if Walker gets canned.

White_Sock
06-29-2011, 12:48 AM
It's going to be difficult to hang around for this team in extras going forward. These guys need to get some fight in them soon or this season is toast.

ChiSoxGal85
06-29-2011, 12:49 AM
Is it sad that I just felt relieved seeing the game end?
At least you stuck it out until the end; I turned it off in the 10th. Mostly because of this:

In so many of these games after we blow a whole bunch of chances to score early, the offense just packs it in and never threaten again.


This is why last Friday's loss that went 15 innings did not upset me nearly as much as a game like this. At least they kept battling in that game. This was just flatout offensively awful. Except for Gavin Floyd's bunt. :D:

NLaloosh
06-29-2011, 12:49 AM
I've got five games worth of tape from this season, he's terrible and has no idea where to throw the damn ball.

The only way that Viciedo would help the team this year would be if he DHed in place of Dunn. Then again, the same could be said of almost any player.

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:50 AM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
Oz pulled rios because he didn't hustle on bases
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

I guess this can shed some light on the Pierre situation. As long as Juan Pierre hustles on the bases, he's going to be in the lineup unless Kenny does something. He may be making outs, but at least he busts his ass every time he's running to the dugout.

samurai_sox
06-29-2011, 12:51 AM
I have a feeling Walker will be canned during the AS break. That may not be the answer but can they seriously just sit and do nothing? I think his days are numbered.

and I have the feeling ABSOLUTELY NOTHING will change.

Ozzie, Walker and Kenny have their jobs for life and this organization will continue to be fraud posing as a Major League Baseball franchise.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 12:51 AM
Rios didn't hustle on that flyout the next at bat after he dropped the ball?
Dumbass. It cost the team in the end,as he has a better arm than Lilly and they would never have even tried on him.

I feel an Ozzie blowup coming.

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:52 AM
The only way that Viciedo would help the team this year would be if he DHed in place of Dunn. Then again, the same could be said of almost any player.

Or if he took Juan Pierre's place in the outfield.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 12:52 AM
I feel an Ozzie blowup coming.

God, I hope not. I'm so tired of hearing him talk.

thomas35forever
06-29-2011, 12:53 AM
I guess this can shed some light on the Pierre situation. As long as Juan Pierre hustles on the bases, he's going to be in the lineup unless Kenny does something. He may be making outs, but at least he busts his ass every time he's running to the dugout.
So will you be avoiding games with Rios in the lineup now?

NLaloosh
06-29-2011, 12:53 AM
Don't hold your breath on that one. I would be absolutely shocked if Walker gets canned.

The general manager hasn't made a good deal since 2007 but it's all the fault of the hitting coach. That's interesting.

SI1020
06-29-2011, 12:54 AM
Rios didn't hustle on that flyout the next at bat after he dropped the ball?
Dumbass. It cost the team in the end,as he has a better arm than Lilly and they would never have even tried on him.

I feel an Ozzie blowup coming. I thought he only did that to show his genius at keeping the spotlight off of his failing players.

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:54 AM
and I have the feeling ABSOLUTELY NOTHING will change.

Ozzie, Walker and Kenny have their jobs for life and this organization will continue to be fraud posing as a Major League Baseball franchise.

Agreed.

We'll hear the same shut from the manager to the owner, that the players need to perform and we'll be okay.

I'm really getting tired of this trifecta.

Tragg
06-29-2011, 12:54 AM
The general manager hasn't made a good deal since 2007 but it's all the fault of the hitting coach. That's interesting.
That's why firing Walker would be a fraud, really (although I'd mark the date in 08)..

kittle42
06-29-2011, 12:54 AM
The general manager hasn't made a good deal since 2007 but it's all the fault of the hitting coach. That's interesting.

Ah, yes, let's fight over who sucks more again! Fire KW, Ozzie, and any coaches you want.

Lip Man 1
06-29-2011, 12:55 AM
Same old ****...

11th loss this year despite holding opponent to three runs or less.

5th consecutive extra inning loss, now 4-8 in extra inning games this year.

39th game this year (out of 80 played) Sox have scored three runs or less (49%)

Lip

JermaineDye05
06-29-2011, 12:58 AM
So will you be avoiding games with Rios in the lineup now?

No because my protest is not because Pierre is bad.

I probably wouldn't see another game this season if that were the case

It's because it's completely unnecessary to play Juan when there's a viable replacement ready.

The team is stuck with Dunn and Rios. It would be ridiculous for me to expect the team to not play them.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 12:58 AM
The general manager hasn't made a good deal since 2007 but it's all the fault of the hitting coach. That's interesting.

1) I didn't know that the only thing a GM did was make trades. Chris Sale, Jesse Crain, JJ Putz, Phil Humber and re-signing Konerko all immediately come to mind.

2) Hindsight is 20/20. Who, at the time of the deals, was bitching about getting Jake Peavy or Adam Dunn?

Nellie_Fox
06-29-2011, 12:59 AM
:rolling:

5 games worth of tape?

Dear LordHow many of the people who want Viciedo up immediately have seen him play the outfield at all?

cws05champ
06-29-2011, 12:59 AM
Rios didn't hustle on that flyout the next at bat after he dropped the ball?
Dumbass. It cost the team in the end,as he has a better arm than Lilly and they would never have even tried on him.

I feel an Ozzie blowup coming.

They wouldn't have tried on Lilli if he would have just hustled to the ball and fielded it like Tulo was going the whole time. When he bare handed and paused he lost his momemtum coming towards the plate.
Ozzie should blow up.. you can't lose an extra inning game on lack of hustle.

Crooked Number
06-29-2011, 01:02 AM
Same old ****...

11th loss this year despite holding opponent to three runs or less.

5th consecutive extra inning loss, now 4-8 in extra inning games this year.

Lip

I was just about to say time for the "Lip" stats we all love to be updated. That is becoming the theme for the season....wait did i say becoming? It is the theme.

By the way, how good is the first place pitching by this Sox staff? If only they could hit mediocre. Terrible, terrible offense we got here. Just so pathetic, and frustrating. I wonder how the team feels. I bet they are just as miserable as we are, that kind of terrible hitting is contageous. You would think that Paulie ripping everything in sight would motivate the others. Instead when he goes 0-6 they scratch 2 stinkin' runs across in 14 innings.

Foulke You
06-29-2011, 01:04 AM
The real tragedy here is that one again, there was great pitching on display from our Sox tonight. Floyd was solid for 7, Crain was filthy, Sale was filthy, and even Ohman was good. A playoff caliber rotation paired up with an A ball caliber offense.

NLaloosh
06-29-2011, 01:06 AM
1) I didn't know that the only thing a GM did was make trades. Chris Sale, Jesse Crain, JJ Putz, Phil Humber and re-signing Konerko all immediately come to mind.

2) Hindsight is 20/20. Who, at the time of the deals, was bitching about getting Jake Peavy or Adam Dunn?

UMMMM ME ME ME ME !

Pierre, Swisher 1, Swisher 2, Dunn, Peavy, Teahen, Kotsay, letting Putz go, letting Thome go, trading GIO, getting nothing for Vazquez, bda drafting, bad player development

AND, the horribly horrific idiotic deals for PEAVY and DUNN should be alone enough to get him fired!



Oh, sorry, how can I forget David Holmberg and Dan Hudson for Edwin Jackson! I'm sure that I could think of more if I took the time.

messed up Beckham, Morel and Sale by rushing them..

Humber that was nice....

Kenny Williams has been THE worst general manager in baseball since the end of the 2007 season. There is not one GM with a worse portfolio of deals in that time.

BainesHOF
06-29-2011, 01:07 AM
Pierre still needs to be released. A hustling, bad player is still a bad player.

I've never heard of a team struggling so badly offensively for so long refuse to bring up a minor league player who is crushing the ball and would easily fit into the lineup. Mind-boggling.

Lillibridge fell asleep on the play, no question about it. I think what might have played into it is his lack of experience in center field. Although he was playing deep to cut off any gap balls, I'm guessing he just assumed that the runner would go from first to third on the single. That's where he would be wrong, of course, but it's somewhat understandable of a player who's probably never faced that situation before. I don't offer that as an excuse, but as a possible explanation.

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 01:07 AM
The real tragedy here is that one again, there was great pitching on display from our Sox tonight. Floyd was solid for 7, Crain was filthy, Sale was filthy, and even Ohman was good. A playoff caliber rotation paired up with an A ball caliber offense.

The other tragedy is the quality of the AL Central this year and the failure yet again to gain on the other two train wrecks ahead of the Sox.

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 01:13 AM
Pierre still needs to be released. A hustling, bad player is still a bad player.

I've never heard of a team struggling so badly offensively for so long refuse to bring up a minor league player who is crushing the ball and would easily fit into the lineup. Mind-boggling.

Lillibridge fell asleep on the play, no question about it. I think what might have played into it is his lack of experience in center field. Although he was playing deep to cut off any gap balls, I'm guessing he just assumed that the runner would go from first to third on the single. That's where he would be wrong, of course, but it's somewhat understandable of a player who's probably never faced that situation before. I don't offer that as an excuse, but as a possible explanation.

It makes no sense -- in left center or right-- to let up at all when the runner is going to third. I just watched it again and it disgusted me.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-29-2011, 01:14 AM
Pierre still needs to be released. A hustling, bad player is still a bad player.

I've never heard of a team struggling so badly offensively for so long refuse to bring up a minor league player who is crushing the ball and would easily fit into the lineup. Mind-boggling.

Lillibridge fell asleep on the play, no question about it. I think what might have played into it is his lack of experience in center field. Although he was playing deep to cut off any gap balls, I'm guessing he just assumed that the runner would go from first to third on the single. That's where he would be wrong, of course, but it's somewhat understandable of a player who's probably never faced that situation before. I don't offer that as an excuse, but as a possible explanation.

This isn't the first time they've thrown a player with no experience into CF. Why isn't the great Juan Pierre the backup CF? He has years of experience there. Oh yeah because he's washed up.

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2011, 01:16 AM
I did not enjoy that movie at all. It was boring, predictable, way too long, and by the end I really found myself hating most of the major characters.

Ditto. Two thumbs down!

SMO
:angry:

So just why did Lillibridge replace Rios several innings ago?

Lip Man 1
06-29-2011, 01:18 AM
Ozzie's comments:

"We played like (bleep), you go home like (bleep). What else you guys want to know? I don't think we should feel bad because we earned it, to lose this game. We deserved to lose. I think the way we played from the first inning, I don't think we should have won this game at all."

To take a page out of Ozzie's own book, "There's nothing you can do..."

Lip

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2011, 01:19 AM
Good start by the SP, our good relievers shut things down for a few innings, hitters can barely get the ball out of the infield.

Same ****, different day to me.

Yep. Whole lotta good pitching, starter and bullpen, went to waste this game.

SMO
:angry:

BainesHOF
06-29-2011, 01:19 AM
You have to admire the way the Rockies run the bases hard.

1. Why weren't our outfielders put on high alert to that fact.

2. Why don't we run the bases like that?

1989
06-29-2011, 01:21 AM
Go get em next time!

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 01:22 AM
You have to admire the way the Rockies run the bases hard.

1. Why weren't our outfielders put on high alert to that fact.

2. Why don't we run the bases like that?

Any pro should run hard when he sees what Lili was up to on that play -- an epic lollygag.

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2011, 01:22 AM
It gets worse, the majority want Dayan Viciedo to play RF, talk about scary bad...

Maybe if Viciedo was hitting tonight, this train wreck doesn't go extra innings.

SMO
:o:

manders_01
06-29-2011, 01:26 AM
Certainly not the outcome I was hoping for but hey, I got to see my Sox and I got beer & Monster Chicken Nachos. Even with a loss that's a damn good night! :thumbsup:

Let's get 'em tomorrow boys!

Daver
06-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Maybe if Viciedo was hitting tonight, this train wreck doesn't go extra innings.


Or MAYBE he strikes out 4 times and they never make it to extra innings.

Or MAYBE he lets three singles turn into to doubles because he has no clue how to read a ball off the bat from the outfield.

How long shall we play the MAYBE game?

JB98
06-29-2011, 01:29 AM
Ozzie's comments:

"We played like (bleep), you go home like (bleep). What else you guys want to know? I don't think we should feel bad because we earned it, to lose this game. We deserved to lose. I think the way we played from the first inning, I don't think we should have won this game at all."

To take a page out of Ozzie's own book, "There's nothing you can do..."

Lip

It's nice Ozzie recognizes they played like ****. They've played like **** the majority of the season. The question I have for Ozzie is, "What are you going to do about it?"

"I like the mix" is not an acceptable answer. If you like this "mix," you should be able to win with it.

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2011, 01:37 AM
Or MAYBE he strikes out 4 times and they never make it to extra innings.

Or MAYBE he lets three singles turn into to doubles because he has no clue how to read a ball off the bat from the outfield.

How long shall we play the MAYBE game?

I wish the Sox would call him up and we could end the idle speculation.

SMO
:o:

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 01:45 AM
Pierre still needs to be released. A hustling, bad player is still a bad player.

I've never heard of a team struggling so badly offensively for so long refuse to bring up a minor league player who is crushing the ball and would easily fit into the lineup. Mind-boggling.

Lillibridge fell asleep on the play, no question about it. I think what might have played into it is his lack of experience in center field. Although he was playing deep to cut off any gap balls, I'm guessing he just assumed that the runner would go from first to third on the single. That's where he would be wrong, of course, but it's somewhat understandable of a player who's probably never faced that situation before. I don't offer that as an excuse, but as a possible explanation.


The very fact that he almost lollygagged the Rockies into a run in the very same fashion a few innings earlier on the same type of play should have made him super alert. Hawk was yelling at him to get it in on the earliere play,and luckily Dauer did not gamble that time,but com'n,twice in a few innings...that is on Lilly. He is fast,he has got to be sprinting as soon as he determines that ball is in front of him....amazing.

If Viciedo was in for Pierre tonite,and had a double and two singles and an RBI,the Sox still lose. NO Clutch hitting....and in fact,Pierre has one of the better averages with runners in scoring position on the team,and he needs to go?

captain54
06-29-2011, 01:58 AM
Any pro should run hard when he sees what Lili was up to on that play -- an epic lollygag.

the ballgame was NOT the Lillibridge play, it was not being able to score the runner from third with less than two outs TWICE during the game and having a leadoff double (Quentin) go for naught. They score at least once on those three opportunities and the game never even goes into extras

there's really nothing to get mad at or frustrated about anymore because its really really obvious this is just a very mediocre bunch. Bottom line, I don't come to expect anything more this season from this assembled group and good luck trying to sell season tickets next year JR, unless something changes..

manders_01
06-29-2011, 02:05 AM
First Rockies walk-off win of the season. Sox, why does your name have to be associated with that? :mad:

BainesHOF
06-29-2011, 02:39 AM
Pierre has one of the better averages with runners in scoring position on the team,and he needs to go?

Yes.

Changing subjects...is it possible the Chairman has already written off the season, but is waiting until it ends to make major changes so they help sell tickets heading into next year?

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2011, 03:24 AM
Ozzie's comments:

"We played like (bleep), you go home like (bleep). What else you guys want to know? I don't think we should feel bad because we earned it, to lose this game. We deserved to lose. I think the way we played from the first inning, I don't think we should have won this game at all."

To take a page out of Ozzie's own book, "There's nothing you can do..."

Lip

If Ozzie has to teach his center fielder how to take routes to a ball, then this team is ****ing hopeless. Rios has looked LOST at times in CF, he has taken a lot of bad routes to balls and the bad one he took today cost us the game. Yes, I know Lillibridge was in center when the **** went down, but there was no reason for Rios to drop that god damned flyball that led to a run coming across and this is not the first time he has done this. If player don't know how to field their god damned positions at the major league level, then this team is ****ed. But KW keeps throwing guys who are either stupid or inept at their positions.

Boondock Saint
06-29-2011, 03:58 AM
UMMMM ME ME ME ME !

Pierre, Swisher 1, Swisher 2, Dunn, Peavy, Teahen, Kotsay, letting Putz go, letting Thome go, trading GIO, getting nothing for Vazquez, bda drafting, bad player development

AND, the horribly horrific idiotic deals for PEAVY and DUNN should be alone enough to get him fired!

1) I missed the part where any of those deals you mentioned have anything to do with the good moves KW has made since 2007, which is what you said he hasn't done. Also, Pierre turned out to be a great move last year. He did a good job. The fact that he sucks this year doesn't have anything to do with that. Also, KW didn't let Putz go, Putz decided that chasing the big money to play for a **** team was more important than playing for the contending team that rebuilt his career. That's not on KW, either. as far as the return for Vazquez, that's how things go sometimes when you trade for prospects. Ask the Twins how they feel about the Johan Santana trade. And another thing, Kenny Williams doesn't develop players.

2) The Peavy and Dunn deals looked GREAT until Peavy got injured and Dunn had an astronomical drop-off in production. Both still may pay off, too.

I'm not saying that KW is untouchable or anything, he's done far from a great job lately. But to say that he hasn't done anything good since 2007 is beyond stupid.

captain54
06-29-2011, 03:59 AM
Yes.

Changing subjects...is it possible the Chairman has already written off the season, but is waiting until it ends to make major changes so they help sell tickets heading into next year?

only speculation, but I think they are keeping their fingers crossed that in this s****y division, the Sox could have one more run left in them at somepoint and make it interesting. Unless of course, Detroit gets hot and runs away with it.

LITTLE NELL
06-29-2011, 07:27 AM
Serious. Now I can go to bed without watching us wave pathetically at pitches down and away.[QUOTE=vinny;2781507]


The "book" on the White Sox is you don't have to throw strikes to beat them. They have no plate discipline and will swing at anything.

Zakath
06-29-2011, 07:44 AM
Ultimately ironic that the guy who Ozzie apparently benched for dogging it on the basepaths is replaced by the guy who dogged it in the outfield, which cost us the game.

Jollyroger2
06-29-2011, 08:01 AM
Nothing suprising here. I said earlier in the season guys were slacking off on this team. It's not just slumping. The overall attitude is a disgrace. Now they're losing to mediocre NL clubs. Yawn.

harwar
06-29-2011, 08:07 AM
only speculation, but I think they are keeping their fingers crossed that in this s****y division, the Sox could have one more run left in them at some point and make it interesting.

I don't see what else they can do .. there's no more money .. there's nothing in the farm system .. we are "ALL IN" .. sink or swim .. **** or fall back .. this is the team .. also,i'm thinking that they are hesitant to bring up Viciedo because they don't want to see the same thing happen to him that happened to Beckham ..

October26
06-29-2011, 08:09 AM
Another awful loss last night. UGH...

I took GoGoCrede's suggestion and am venting on the treadmill/elliptical at the gym this morning. It feels good to sweat all this toxic White sox energy out of my body.

I am especially disappointed in Brent Lillibridge. I never thought I'd see Brent DOG a play like he did last night. Unreal.

"Dear 2011 White Sox: You will not kill me with your awful play. I won't allow it. Signed, October26"

LITTLE NELL
06-29-2011, 08:12 AM
Well we can't blame the pitchers, Sox have best ERA in the division at .386 and the most quality starts with 47 yet here we are floundering at 4 games under .500. All of us on this board can see the problem, why can't KW see the problem. Its obvious that a new philosophy when it comes to hitting has to be implemented, someone has to the drive home the point on quality at bats and have some idea where the strike zone is. Case in point was on Sunday when Alexei in a 1 run ball game pinch hits and swings at the first pitch and pops it up. With RISP this team has no clue.

Zakath
06-29-2011, 08:23 AM
Another awful loss last night. UGH...

I took GoGoCrede's suggestion and am venting on the treadmill/elliptical at the gym this morning. It feels good to sweat all this toxic White sox energy out of my body.

I am especially disappointed in Brent Lillibridge. I never thought I'd see Brent DOG a play like he did last night. Unreal.


Especially after he had shown tons of effort time and time again to put himself in position to make great plays this year.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 08:33 AM
2) The Peavy and Dunn deals looked GREAT until Peavy got injured and Dunn had an astronomical drop-off in production. Both still may pay off, too.

I'm not saying that KW is untouchable or anything, he's done far from a great job lately. But to say that he hasn't done anything good since 2007 is beyond stupid.

We have ~$50M in payroll tied up in players who all had major red flags before KW mad his move:

Peavy was on the DL when the trade was made. He's pitched pretty well when healthy- it's just been rare.
Dunn hit .223 after the All Star break last year, wrung his hands over the DH role, and has a career batting average in the .230's w/RISP and vs. Lefties. The idea of a more flexible use of the DH role was a good one- they needed to upgrade from Mark Kotsay but they immediately went to the other extreme with Manny Ramirez and now Dunn.
Rios- hitting .199 at the time we picked him up off waivers with a reputation that he didn't hustle, etc.
Teahen- just a mediocre player who played mediocre defense, and for some reason KW decided to lock him into a 3 year contract before he had played a single game with us.

daveeym
06-29-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't know aht all of you and ozzie are bitching about. This was the first time at coors field for most of these guys. Rios and Lilly clearly were having a case of altitude poisoning and weren't dogging it. Especially given the size of that outfield it sucks up even more oxygen.

Also it looked like the altitude affected the offense since they all looked like they were swinging aluminum bats up there.

Hopefully they can adjust and if not its only 3 games in CO.
Plenty of time left to make up for this one.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 08:35 AM
Especially after he had shown tons of effort time and time again to put himself in position to make great plays this year.

It's just mind boggling that your starting CF could be benched mid-game for not hustling (a pretty big deal)- and then a few innings later- the back up doesn't hustle to get the ball back in with the winning run heading around 3rd.

russ99
06-29-2011, 09:04 AM
The "book" on the White Sox is you don't have to throw strikes to beat them. They have no plate discipline and will swing at anything.

Yep. It's super obvious. Pretty strange that our hitting coach can't see that...

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 09:13 AM
Yep. It's super obvious. Pretty strange that our hitting coach can't see that...

12th in the AL for walks
9th in OBP

But surprisingly- the 2nd fewest strikeouts as a team.

doublem23
06-29-2011, 09:25 AM
12th in the AL for walks
9th in OBP

But surprisingly- the 2nd fewest strikeouts as a team.

Hasn't that been the story for at least the last 2-3 years? Low OBP but super hard to strike out, too?

Weird combo. That strikeout mark is especially impressive considering we have a strikeout machine in the middle of our lineup.

Carolina Kenny
06-29-2011, 09:25 AM
This team needs a wake up call, a fight, someone benched, someone released, someone fired. Something to shock.

This Division is so winnable, and we appear so pathetic despite a solid pitching staff.

Chez
06-29-2011, 09:47 AM
Wow. This board has now turned on Saint Lillibridge. Two lazy plays in CF and two horrible at bats. I give Ozzie credit for benching Rios mid-game. It kills me to see how much GREAT pitching is being wasted. The absence of timely hitting is mind-blowing. The division is there for the taking; Sox just don't seem to be interested in taking it. Win today.

WhiteSox1989
06-29-2011, 09:52 AM
Not necessarily glad that Ozzie benched Rios, but it was the "right" move, if that makes sense.

Lazy play by Brent. Offense sucks. Pitching is superb.

The fact that the Sox are only 5 games back right now, really says a lot about the rest of the division.

Not much else to say.

sox1970
06-29-2011, 09:55 AM
47 quality starts and only 27-20 in those games.

/season

Procol Harum
06-29-2011, 09:55 AM
Would it be possible for us just to leave Rios in Denver and not leave a forwarding address? :scratch:

TheOldRoman
06-29-2011, 10:05 AM
Don't hold your breath on that one. I would be absolutely shocked if Walker gets canned.Yep. It is futile to wish for his replacement. In fact, I'm not sure he is even mortal. After a nuclear halocaust, cockroaches will inherit the earth and Greg Walker will still be sitting in the White Sox dugout eating a jar of peanut butter with his bare fingers (or whatever he does during games).

slavko
06-29-2011, 10:22 AM
Wow. This board has now turned on Saint Lillibridge. Two lazy plays in CF and two horrible at bats. I give Ozzie credit for benching Rios mid-game. It kills me to see how much GREAT pitching is being wasted. The absence of timely hitting is mind-blowing. The division is there for the taking; Sox just don't seem to be interested in taking it. Win today.

Halo Guy lost his halo! We're not that smart, but we get it eventually. He did have a nice view of a great baseball play. Tulo read the bloop perfectly and the coach saw what was happening in CF. No fault to Ozzie for the no-doubles positioning, that's the correct move for the game situation.

Can't leave without saying a word about Brent's being helpless on an outside breaking pitch. "He is what he is."

tstrike2000
06-29-2011, 10:22 AM
I don't know if I've ever seen a guy score from first on a bloop single. Nobody was surprised. Hawk was just like, "They're waving him around" in a nonchalant unsurprised voice. Stone didn't even say anything as Lillibridge just jogged to the ball and watched Tulowitzki safe at home by a country mile. So glad to stay and watch these pros in action!

I don't care if this offense is in the middle of some category of anything. Watching this offense all season has been like watching someone get tortured with bamboo shoots under the fingernails.

Tragg
06-29-2011, 10:26 AM
Hasn't that been the story for at least the last 2-3 years? Low OBP but super hard to strike out, too?

Weird combo. That strikeout mark is especially impressive considering we have a strikeout machine in the middle of our lineup.

Not that unusual - look at Dunn himself over the years: high walk, high K.

The Sox swing early in the count and minimize (to a large extent) the called third strike.
Look at how "walkers" do on the Sox: Swisher and Dunn.
Look at Morel - my goodness, a young hitter with marginal power, can't walk at all.
Guillen and Walker didn't walk as hitters and don't seem to value them as coaches.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 10:45 AM
Listening to Lilly's view of the last play,his impression was that he came in and threw it ASAP...I like the kid,and he has made more great plays in short time out there than any of the other outfielders,but he had a carbon copy in an earilier inning,and he was lucky the guy did not take home on him that time....should have sprinted and come up firing this time,knowing that Tulo would be off on a 3-2 ,2 out pitch...I think he was playing so far bad that he lost concentration on the count or something.

Bottom line, should have never gone to extras,if the Sox beat the living hell outta Hamel. A lot of these pitchers have looked tough vs the Sox,like Zimmerman and even Hernandez of the Nats,but Hamel looked extremely poundable....as they said,he gives up big innings,and the Sox had him squared up for big innings twice,and get 1 run outta two innings.
Pure and simple,our hitters are chokers with guys on base,period.

tstrike2000
06-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Listening to Lilly's view of the last play,his impression was that he came in and threw it ASAP..

Wrong. If you look at the replay, nothing was done ASAP. Brent took several stutter steps, letting the ball roll to him which allowed Tulowitzki more than enough time. Even if Lillibridge's throw was on the money, Tulo would've still been safe.

Harry Chappas
06-29-2011, 11:07 AM
How many of the people who want Viciedo up immediately have seen him play the outfield at all?

Who cares? It's not like he'd be replacing Ichiro. JP is defensively challenged. Even if Viciedo takes crap angles and doesn't cover as much ground, he has a stronger arm so it might be a wash.

They lost last night because of their anemic offense. The Sox need guys who can drive the ball. By all accounts, Viciedo can rake, so why not bring him up?

Harry Chappas
06-29-2011, 11:12 AM
Just DFA a bunch of them.

I would so rather watch Viciedo, Danks, Flowers, and other young guys who WILL PLAY HARD, even if they lose regularly, it still would be better then this crap

I'll give you Viciedo, but Danks and Flowers? You've got to be kidding me. Take a look at their stats and report back.

guillensdisciple
06-29-2011, 11:46 AM
Oakland Athletics.

veeter
06-29-2011, 12:13 PM
I find it hilarious the guy who replaced the player who wasn't hustling, costs us the game because HE was dogging it. Not once, but twice!! Ozzie has lost this team. He actually lost them about three years ago. It's so clear that Ozzie's time in Chicago is going to end in an extremely ugly way.

FielderJones
06-29-2011, 01:00 PM
Who cares? It's not like he'd be replacing Ichiro. JP is defensively challenged. Even if Viciedo takes crap angles and doesn't cover as much ground, he has a stronger arm so it might be a wash.

This board will turn on Viciedo faster than they turned on Lillibridge.

kittle42
06-29-2011, 01:21 PM
This board will turn on Viciedo faster than they turned on Lillibridge.

Not those of us who actually know the obvious: the only place he is highly-touted is at WSI, because this team has absolutely nothing else on the farm.

Seriously, at what point do we just KC Royals this whole thing?

doublem23
06-29-2011, 01:24 PM
This board will turn on Viciedo faster than they turned on Lillibridge.

Even if a young kid struggles when he arrives in the Majors, there's still a joy to watching him play as he represents the future. Watching Juan Pierre play left field just makes me want to wear black clothes and write goth poetry.

JB98
06-29-2011, 01:31 PM
Even if a young kid struggles when he arrives in the Majors, there's still a joy to watching him play as he represents the future. Watching Juan Pierre play left field just makes me want to wear black clothes and write goth poetry.

:rolling:

ChiSoxGal85
06-29-2011, 01:37 PM
Even if a young kid struggles when he arrives in the Majors, there's still a joy to watching him play as he represents the future. Watching Juan Pierre play left field just makes me want to wear black clothes and write goth poetry.
:roflmao:

LITTLE NELL
06-29-2011, 01:49 PM
I just saw the replay on the last play. Here is my take; Brent was really playing deep to protect against a double or triple, he ran in slowed up a little and made sure he picked up the ball. With the runner on the move on a 3-2 count it looked like Lilly was surprised to see the runner heading home. I really didn't see a lack of hustle, it was like a perfect storm that the guy scored from 1st on a bloop. If Lilly is playing a normal CF the guy never scores.
The thing is that all these close games we have lost lately all should have been won with probably one key timely hit.

PS Rios should be fined for dogging it.
White Sox fans will not put up with a lack of hustle.

captain54
06-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Even if a young kid struggles when he arrives in the Majors, there's still a joy to watching him play as he represents the future. Watching Juan Pierre play left field just makes me want to wear black clothes and write goth poetry.

Outstanding...You are my New Hero, Sir....

My sentiments exactly.... Brings to mind the magical 1990 season, with a young Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell, Frank Thomas, anchored by The Commander, Thigpen with the SV record... the oldest players were Pudge in his early 40's and Kittle in his early 30's

the Sox won 94 games that year and finished behind Oakland who went insane that year, winning 103.. and that was back in the day of no wild card, of which the Sox would have qualified by a wide margin.

hawkjt
06-29-2011, 02:14 PM
Even if a young kid struggles when he arrives in the Majors, there's still a joy to watching him play as he represents the future. Watching Juan Pierre play left field just makes me want to wear black clothes and write goth poetry.

I guess you missed that diving catch by Juan last nite that saved runs?

He screwed up early in the year,but has not dropped anything lately,right...like Rios did last nite,or how Lilly messed up twice last nite?

I know, we got our designated scapegoat,and there is nuthin that can be done...as they say in in Goodfellas.

JB98
06-29-2011, 02:28 PM
I guess you missed that diving catch by Juan last nite that saved runs?

He screwed up early in the year,but has not dropped anything lately,right...like Rios did last nite,or how Lilly messed up twice last nite?

I know, we got our designated scapegoat,and there is nuthin that can be done...as they say in in Goodfellas.

You Pierre defenders are just so sensitive.

Look, Pierre sucks. He had a nice game last night. So what? He has still had a terrible season. Dunn has sucked all year. Rios has sucked all year. Beckham has sucked all year. Morel has been a little better lately, but he has generally sucked also.

Lillibridge sucked last night, but at least Brent has won us three or four games with the leather this season. He's one of the few people on this team I can say that for.

I don't even look at Lillibridge as having cost the Sox the game last night. He blew that play, yes. But they could have played all night and the Sox NEVER would have scored a run regardless. Last night's game was an exercise in waiting to lose. It was a matter of how, not if.

The game was lost the first five innings when Walker's hitters left another small country on the bases.

There's a lot of sucking going on, and yes, Pierre is one of the culprits.

khan
06-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Pierre, Swisher 1, Swisher 2, Dunn, Peavy, Teahen, Kotsay, letting Putz go, letting Thome go, trading GIO, getting nothing for Vazquez, bda drafting, bad player development

David Holmberg and Dan Hudson for Edwin Jackson!

messed up Beckham, Morel and Sale by rushing them..

Humber that was nice....

Kenny Williams has been THE worst general manager in baseball since the end of the 2007 season. There is not one GM with a worse portfolio of deals in that time.
I don't think that KW has been the worst GM in baseball since '07, as there is an imbecile who has held the title of worst GM working for the ricketts family.

That said, while you can look at any one move by KW, and justify or criticize it, the overarching vision, plan, strategy, and execution has sucked ass. For example:

Getting Jackson would have been OK, or at least defendable, but only if KW would have gotten him for ONLY salary, as he should have.

Getting rid of Swisher and Vazquez would have been OK, but only if they would have bothered to extract SOMETHING of value in return.

Getting Peavy would have been OK, if he then saved some budget to obtain solutions elsewhere in the team and organization. Instead, he backed this example of "GMing-By-Checkbook" by letting an affordable/effective Thome go, and adding $54MM to the roster in Dunn.

"We played like (bleep), you go home like (bleep). What else you guys want to know? I don't think we should feel bad because we earned it, to lose this game. We deserved to lose. I think the way we played from the first inning, I don't think we should have won this game at all."

To take a page out of Ozzie's own book, "There's nothing you can do..."
This team appears to be tuning him out. Colorado was set up to LOSE this game. They'd just had a 10-day road trip, and probably got into Denver later than the SOX, due to their loss @ the urinal the day before.

But like the surrender monkeys this team has become, they let the tired team that just came off a tough road trip punk them. Winning teams can sense the opponents that are ripe for the picking, and "go in for the kill."

Mediocre and bad teams let other mediocre and bad teams beat them. Mediocre performers don't seize on opportunities, as this game and the Washington series appeared to be.


The other concern to me is that OG had always been regarded as the type of manager for whom his "players never quit." With the Rios revelation, and the Lillibridge play, one wonders if OG has "lost this team."


The "book" on the White Sox is you don't have to throw strikes to beat them. They have no plate discipline and will swing at anything.

While a HUGE chunk of this is on Walker's head, it is also the manager's role to instill and re-instill the basic concepts of intelligent baseball and professional AB as well.

Many here cite other teams that fire their hitting coach, only to see that same team have no notable improvement in their performance. Thus, it would seem that the manager would have a big role in these issues as well.

In an ideal world, should a MLB player "already know these things?" Sure. But reinforcement of the basics of hitting and fundamental play keeps these sorts of things in a players mind. In other words, to keep the player from forgetting. Who knows if this is happening here...

Are they drilling on the fundamentals? Is OG constantly reminding Ramirez that he's got to get out to LF, and cut off each and every throw from Pierre? Are they teaching the hitters to be patient, rather than hacking away at the first pitch? Are they learning to hit behind the runner? One wonders these [and other] things with this coaching staff.

AZChiSoxFan
06-29-2011, 02:58 PM
Ugh.

Was Lillibridge napping on that play? I didn't see much effort.

In all the years I've watched baseball, that's the first time I have ever seen a player score from first on a bloop single to center. Nice.

slavko
06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't think that KW has been the worst GM in baseball since '07, as there is an imbecile who has held the title of worst GM working for the ricketts family.

That'll make a nice line for KW's resume when he needs to use it. "Better than an imbecile." And there's nothing like an imbecile with too much money to spend. That could refer to both of them. Kenny was better when he didn't have the money to spend, picking up a catcher, second baseman, bullpen and bench for pocket change and winning a WS.

Hitmen77
06-29-2011, 03:35 PM
Same stuff, different day.

Yep, same old same old.

But that's okay, because I've been told that the Sox are near the top of the league in batting with RISP. :rolleyes: So, their continued performance with runners in scoring position and less than 2 out is above average!

Right now, Kenny Williams has $125M worth of egg on his face. Somewhere between him, Ozzie, and Walker is some responsibility for this train wreck. It's a good thing for them there's no accountability at their level.

doublem23
06-29-2011, 03:46 PM
But that's okay, because I've been told that the Sox are near the top of the league in batting with RISP. :rolleyes: So, their continued performance with runners in scoring position and less than 2 out is above average!


That's not the message, the message is that some of you guys seem to have unrealistic expectations as to how teams hit with RISP. The Sox are currently hitting .244, sure that is #9 in the AL, but the league average is .250 and the Indians, still #1 in the league, are hitting only .270, which is a differenc of about 1 hit every 40-something at bats; not too much at all.

Sure, we'd all like the Sox to hit 1.000 with RISP. Doesn't always work that way in reality, unfortunately.

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2011, 03:52 PM
You snooze, you lose.

It's only fitting that most of the extra innings (not the fateful 14th,however) put me to sleep.:sleep: I stayed up until 11:45 for this ****??:angry::angry:

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2011, 03:54 PM
Sure, we'd all like the Sox to hit 1.000 with RISP. Doesn't always work that way in reality, unfortunately.

I'll settle for 1 ****ing hit with RISP!!:angry:
My ulcer is growing... Just saying.:(:

jdm2662
06-29-2011, 03:56 PM
I'll settle for 1 ****ing hit with RISP!!:angry:
My ulcer is growing... Just saying.:(:

A fly ball with less than two outs isn't too much to ask for, is it?

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Right now, Kenny Williams has $125M worth of egg on his face. Somewhere between him, Ozzie, and Walker is some responsibility for this train wreck. It's a good thing for them there's no accountability at their level.


We should all have jobs where making the same mistake over and over again is tolerated.:(:

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2011, 03:57 PM
A fly ball with less than two outs isn't too much to ask for, is it?

With this team,i'm beginning to think it is too much to ask for.:(:

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2011, 03:59 PM
A fly ball with less than two outs isn't too much to ask for, is it?

When did the Sox' offense mesh into the same one the San Francisco Giants use?? I didn't get the memo. Kenny didn't "CC" me on it .

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2011, 04:12 PM
a fly ball with less than two outs isn't too much to ask for, is it?

qft

PeteWard
06-29-2011, 04:19 PM
the ballgame was NOT the Lillibridge play, it was not being able to score the runner from third with less than two outs TWICE during the game and having a leadoff double (Quentin) go for naught. They score at least once on those three opportunities and the game never even goes into extras

there's really nothing to get mad at or frustrated about anymore because its really really obvious this is just a very mediocre bunch. Bottom line, I don't come to expect anything more this season from this assembled group and good luck trying to sell season tickets next year JR, unless something changes..

Who said it was the ballgame? Me? No. Stop projecting.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 04:24 PM
That's not the message, the message is that some of you guys seem to have unrealistic expectations as to how teams hit with RISP. The Sox are currently hitting .244, sure that is #9 in the AL, but the league average is .250 and the Indians, still #1 in the league, are hitting only .270, which is a differenc of about 1 hit every 40-something at bats; not too much at all.

Sure, we'd all like the Sox to hit 1.000 with RISP. Doesn't always work that way in reality, unfortunately.

We're 9th w/runners on 2nd & 3rd at .226 (interestingly- Tigers are last, .113)

We're 11th w/runners on 1st & 3rd (.244)

We're 12th w/runner on 3rd- (.213)

guillensdisciple
06-29-2011, 04:28 PM
History has a way of repeating itself if mistakes are not corrected.

The White Sox seemed to believe that their consistent mistakes were the players and they corrected it, but it did nothing.

This has been said but the one constant has been the coaching staff, and history has repeated itself. It will not be corrected unless they are corrected. They will not become better coaches, so a new regime must be implanted.

I don't know how dumb Kenny or Jerry has to be to see that this is just not working out. Keep the underperformers until they perform. Trade the valuable veterans and get some great return. Rebuild rebuild rebuild and wait it out. Add some nice youth down there and go from there.

Start with a middle salary cap and add where needed with youth brought up from the farm system.

doublem23
06-29-2011, 04:33 PM
We should all have jobs where making the same mistake over and over again is tolerated.:(:


No offense, and not that this is a defense of Ozzie, KW, or anyone, but really, if any of us was the undisputed #1 person in the world at our professions (as the Sox management staff was in 2005), then yes, I think we would expect some kind of job security.

captain54
06-29-2011, 04:41 PM
No offense, and not that this is a defense of Ozzie, KW, or anyone, but really, if any of us was the undisputed #1 person in the world at our professions (as the Sox management staff was in 2005), then yes, I think we would expect some kind of job security.

following that logic, all of the players on the 2005 squad should expect job security since they were a part of the undisputed #1 team in the world.

both you and I both know however, that is not the case, since players are routinely bounced or shuffled around for non-performance.

captain54
06-29-2011, 04:42 PM
Who said it was the ballgame? Me? No. Stop projecting.

No one is projecting anything on you, relax cowboy. I never said you thought it was the definitive point of the ball game.

doublem23
06-29-2011, 04:49 PM
following that logic, all of the players on the 2005 squad should expect job security since they were a part of the undisputed #1 team in the world.

both you and I both know however, that is not the case, since players are routinely bounced or shuffled around for non-performance.

Not really, because the skills needed to play baseball are known to detrioriate as a player ages, whereas plenty of managers and general managers have remained on the job well into their later years.

The general point of my post was more that, even if the post I quoted was in sarcasm, this tired line of "oh, I wish I could suck at my job like Ozzie with no accountability," doesn't really translate to the "real" world we all live in. Sports is different. I would like to see Ozzie or KW fired, too, but if I was the boss at some company and one of my employees was widely recognized as the best person in his area just 5 years ago, I would do everything in my power to keep him around.

voodoochile
06-29-2011, 04:49 PM
following that logic, all of the players on the 2005 squad should expect job security since they were a part of the undisputed #1 team in the world.

both you and I both know however, that is not the case, since players are routinely bounced or shuffled around for non-performance.

That's horribly faulty logic.

The part you are missing in your jump to this illogical conclusion is that unlike physical ability, cognitive ability does not decline dramatically in just a few years.

The players rely on their physical abilities. The management team relies on their cognitive abilities. Barring a disease that causes dementia or traumatic brain injury, most people would agree that if anything Ozzie and KW should be better at their jobs today than they were in 2005 as they have even more experience, but a guys like Carl Everett, Jermaine Dye and many others from that championship team no longer are even close to being able to perform at the level necessary to play for the Sox.

I assume you'll come up with some witty rejoinder about KW having dementia or something similar, but other than your joke my point stands...

Lip Man 1
06-29-2011, 05:04 PM
Voodoo:

Interesting comment and I'm not being sarcastic but how then to explain some of the unusual moves being made by Ozzie the past few years that he didn't seem to do before. How to explain the moves Kenny has been making (say Teahen with a three year extension before he even played a game...)?

It is somewhat hindsight but things simply have not been the same since July 2006 from both of those individuals and that shows in the record.

Lip

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 05:16 PM
No offense, and not that this is a defense of Ozzie, KW, or anyone, but really, if any of us was the undisputed #1 person in the world at our professions (as the Sox management staff was in 2005), then yes, I think we would expect some kind of job security.

For 6 years?

No one has that level of job security-

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Not really, because the skills needed to play baseball are known to detrioriate as a player ages, whereas plenty of managers and general managers have remained on the job well into their later years.

The general point of my post was more that, even if the post I quoted was in sarcasm, this tired line of "oh, I wish I could suck at my job like Ozzie with no accountability," doesn't really translate to the "real" world we all live in. Sports is different. I would like to see Ozzie or KW fired, too, but if I was the boss at some company and one of my employees was widely recognized as the best person in his area just 5 years ago, I would do everything in my power to keep him around.

I understand what you are saying, but...

1. Greg Walker has never been among the "best" hitting coaches in the majors. Maybe JR, Paulie and Hawk think he is, but I've never heard any other baseball writer or announcer, or anyone connected to the game in any way, recognize Walker as such. OTOH, Don Cooper regularly gets accolades, and deservedly so. Cooper is one of the top pitching coaches in the majors. Walker is not one of the top hitting coaches. I have no doubt he works hard and cares, but there are many people who work hard and care who aren't very effective at their job.

2. While management/coaching skills don't automatically decline with age like playing skills do, that doesn't mean that managers and/or coaches don't get complacent. This has happened to many managers and coaches through the years. I think it is possible that Ozzie has gotten stubborn and complacent. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to get that way after winning a World Series in his second season as a manager.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 05:20 PM
I would like to see Ozzie or KW fired, too, but if I was the boss at some company and one of my employees was widely recognized as the best person in his area just 5 years ago, I would do everything in my power to keep him around.

I would have to strongly disagree- I've worked for several very succcessful companies, several in executive/leadership roles- not once has performance "5 years ago" been remotely relevent.

A high level of performance definitely merits more patience, etc.- but the idea that how someone performed in 2006 is somehow relevent in 2011 is laughable.

captain54
06-29-2011, 05:21 PM
That's horribly faulty logic.

The part you are missing in your jump to this illogical conclusion is that unlike physical ability, cognitive ability does not decline dramatically in just a few years.
.

Maybe you should ask Bob Brenley what he thinks of your theory

Its perfectly sound logic... Sports is based on performance and results.

TomBradley72
06-29-2011, 05:22 PM
I understand what you are saying, but...


2. While management/coaching skills don't automatically decline with age like playing skills do, that doesn't mean that managers and/or coaches don't get complacent. This has happened to many managers and coaches through the years. I think it is possible that Ozzie has gotten stubborn and complacent. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to get that way after winning a World Series in his second season as a manager.

Very good points- complacency, arrogance, hubris, sloppiness, etc are all reasons management talent can decline vs. improving.

The difference between winning and losing is very narrow- just a slight drop in focus, etc. can have a huge difference, especially at the major league level.

JB98
06-29-2011, 06:14 PM
That's not the message, the message is that some of you guys seem to have unrealistic expectations as to how teams hit with RISP. The Sox are currently hitting .244, sure that is #9 in the AL, but the league average is .250 and the Indians, still #1 in the league, are hitting only .270, which is a differenc of about 1 hit every 40-something at bats; not too much at all.

Sure, we'd all like the Sox to hit 1.000 with RISP. Doesn't always work that way in reality, unfortunately.

Interestingly, despite their status as the top-ranked team in this statistical category, the Indians recently elected to fire their hitting coach.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2011, 06:25 PM
Very good points- complacency, arrogance, hubris, sloppiness, etc are all reasons management talent can decline vs. improving.

The difference between winning and losing is very narrow- just a slight drop in focus, etc. can have a huge difference, especially at the major league level.

Great points. I think complacency, arrogance, hubris and sloppiness all play a role in this mess.

PalehosePlanet
06-29-2011, 06:39 PM
Halo Guy lost his halo! We're not that smart, but we get it eventually. He did have a nice view of a great baseball play. Tulo read the bloop perfectly and the coach saw what was happening in CF. No fault to Ozzie for the no-doubles positioning, that's the correct move for the game situation.

Can't leave without saying a word about Brent's being helpless on an outside breaking pitch. "He is what he is."

Tulowitzki didn't read ****, there were two outs and a full count on Wiggington, he was already running on the pitch.

sox1970
06-29-2011, 06:49 PM
Tulowitzki didn't read ****, there were two outs and a full count on Wiggington, he was already running on the pitch.

Oh I think he read it great, and hustled all the way in case Dauer sent him.

And his name Wigginton, not Wiggington...Hawk.

PalehosePlanet
06-29-2011, 07:04 PM
Oh I think he read it great, and hustled all the way in case Dauer sent him.

And his name Wigginton, not Wiggington...Hawk.

There is nothing to read. Full count, 2 outs. Run hard and look at the 3rd base coach.

SI1020
06-29-2011, 09:48 PM
That'll make a nice line for KW's resume when he needs to use it. "Better than an imbecile." And there's nothing like an imbecile with too much money to spend. That could refer to both of them. Kenny was better when he didn't have the money to spend, picking up a catcher, second baseman, bullpen and bench for pocket change and winning a WS. I totally agree. Kenny on a budget patched together a WS team. Since then, especially the last 4 years he's a one man wrecking crew.

Nellie_Fox
06-30-2011, 01:00 AM
As I look at the time stamp on the posts, I wonder how many of the posters who are going on and on about "I'd like to have a job where I could suck with no accountability" are posting on WSI while at work.

Just askin'.

FielderJones
06-30-2011, 10:30 AM
Interestingly, despite their status as the top-ranked team in this statistical category, the Indians recently elected to fire their hitting coach.

And they're now tearing up the league at 3-6 since then. Truly a difference-maker. :wink:

doublem23
06-30-2011, 10:33 AM
I would have to strongly disagree- I've worked for several very succcessful companies, several in executive/leadership roles- not once has performance "5 years ago" been remotely relevent.

A high level of performance definitely merits more patience, etc.- but the idea that how someone performed in 2006 is somehow relevent in 2011 is laughable.

Again, big difference between "hey, Johnny over there had a great year in sales a few years ago", and "hey, Johnny over there, WAS UNDISPUTEDLY THE BEST PERSON AT HIS JOB IN THE ENTIRE KNOWN UNIVERSE 5 YEARS AGO."

If that kind of swagger doesn't merit consideration, **** me, I do not want to work wherever the hell you do. Again, not trying to defend Ozzie or Kenny, just pointing out that these metaphors we try and attach to sports just are not real.

SI1020
06-30-2011, 11:04 AM
And they're now tearing up the league at 3-6 since then. Truly a difference-maker. :wink: It remains to be seen if firing their hitting coach will help or hurt the Indians, or in the end perhaps neither. The Indians did what they thought they needed to do and so should every other team.

FielderJones
06-30-2011, 11:46 AM
It remains to be seen if firing their hitting coach will help or hurt the Indians, or in the end perhaps neither. The Indians did what they thought they needed to do and so should every other team.

Doing what you think you have to do, and having it be effective, are two different things. Most of WSI thinks if the Sox will just fire Greg Walker, the season will turn around and the team will be on their way to post-season glory.

My questioning this course of action has nothing to do with any loyalty to Greg Walker; I'm all about effectiveness. So far, the Indians are a .333 team since hiring a new hitting coach. I assume that will improve as more games are played, but maybe not significantly. Since firing the hitting coach the Indians fell out of first place. Bottom line, I question whether changing the hitting coach mid-season is an effective action for a team. If it's ineffective, it's pointless.

captain54
06-30-2011, 11:55 AM
If it's ineffective, it's pointless.

I'm just a fan and I don't really know what a hitting coach does, but in my humble opinion, current hitting coach is already ineffective So are you saying if the Sox made a change, they would reach new heights of ineffectiveness?