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SoxSpeed22
06-25-2011, 07:13 PM
Hopefully Danks is ok, Bruney and Jake step in and do the job.
Let's take the series tomorrow behind Phil.

October26
06-25-2011, 07:18 PM
Nice win.

Bruney, Peavy, & Santos pitched great after Danks left the game with an oblique injury.

I hope Johnny Danks is gonna be okay.

I loved seeing/hearing Sox fans get behind Dunn and cheer him on in the 8th inning.

sunofgold
06-25-2011, 07:18 PM
I like it for this team. Worked out today. However, I hope they play it cautious with Peavy. I think that they can give him 4 day rest regardless of whether or not Danks has to miss a start. Hope that Danks has a minor injury.

Only 3.5 games back. Hope T'gers lose tonight.

JB98
06-25-2011, 07:18 PM
Peavy was really, really good today.

kittle42
06-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Typical 2011 Sox win. Great pitching, and still no hitting. But what great pitching performances, and I agree that as much as I have been down on him, as we all are, it was nice to hear the crowd cheering Dunn on in the 8th.

Harry Potter
06-25-2011, 07:20 PM
It's sad that had the Sox lost this game, there would already be 5 pages of posts by now.

Anyways, great job by the pitching staff to pick up when Danks left - especially after everyone was used last night.

Jake was an absolute bulldog out there.

Very happy to get a win after the stomach punch loss last night.

sunofgold
06-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Have to be impressed with Peavy. This is his first major league relief appearance. New experience for him and he did great. 0.00 ERA as a reliever. lol!

Foulke You
06-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Sox always seem to rebound well after tough losses lately. This one could have been a disaster with Danks going out early. Nice job by Bruney, Peavy, and Santos to keep the Nats scoreless and save the rest of the pen.

whitesoxfan1986
06-25-2011, 07:25 PM
Might Peavy's velocity be coming back to him? He had the "ace stuff" today. OTOH, I'm cautiously optimistic because he might have just had the adrenaline flowing due to pitching on short rest. If we get today's Peavy for the majority of the rest of the season, we'll be in good shape, and might be able to move a pitcher for prospects at the deadline to a team in the NL.

Soxfest
06-25-2011, 07:27 PM
Good strange win!

Zisk77
06-25-2011, 07:29 PM
It's sad that had the Sox lost this game, there would already be 5 pages of posts by now.

Anyways, great job by the pitching staff to pick up when Danks left - especially after everyone was used last night.

Jake was an absolute bulldog out there.

Very happy to get a win after the stomach punch loss last night.


Might have something to do with the Fox blackout with out of market posters like myself. Wish I could have seen the game. Hope Johnny recovers soon.

JB98
06-25-2011, 07:32 PM
It's sad that had the Sox lost this game, there would already be 5 pages of posts by now.

Anyways, great job by the pitching staff to pick up when Danks left - especially after everyone was used last night.

Jake was an absolute bulldog out there.

Very happy to get a win after the stomach punch loss last night.

Every single message board is like that. Hardly unique to WSI.

I'd rather have five pages of anger after losses than nothing, because at least that means people care about the White Sox.

In Sept. 2007, nobody showed up to discuss wins or losses. Because nobody cared. When nobody cares, that's when it's sad.

BNLSox
06-25-2011, 07:34 PM
Thrilled with this win, especially after last night. Hats off to Peavy for stepping up BIG time!

For those of us who didn't get to see the game - how bad did the injury look to Danks? Any word at all on timeline for him?

Harry Potter
06-25-2011, 07:40 PM
Every single message board is like that. Hardly unique to WSI.

I'd rather have five pages of anger after losses than nothing, because at least that means people care about the White Sox.

In Sept. 2007, nobody showed up to discuss wins or losses. Because nobody cared. When nobody cares, that's when it's sad.

Very well said JB.

Curious if Peavy will still pitch Thursday (in Colorado) or have him flip with Jackson (Jackson Thursday and Peavy Friday at Wrigley)

TDog
06-25-2011, 07:46 PM
I didn't have an opportunity to see the game today as the Giants beating the Indians 1-0 (on two errors and a balk) was being shown in NoCal. Actually, Fox switched to the Sox in the bottom of the eighth, and I got to see the two-run third of an inning. They went back to SF for interviews as Lillibridge was missing a suicide squeeze. I would have been upset to see "missed bunt" pop up on the screen with one out and a man on third for the White Sox if not for the hit by Castro.

Lillibridge had a successful suicide squeeze against the Cubs this week that helped win a one-run game. Pierre drove in a run the night before with a bunt, but apparently it wasn't a suicide squeeze. At least today, the failure to execute didn't cost the Sox a game.

The pitching was just so good. Even with the starter injured early and the bullpen having gone seven the night before, the Sox pitching was phenomenally good against a team that has been playing great baseball.

Lip Man 1
06-25-2011, 07:50 PM
This and that:

Danks will probably be out for three-four weeks, strained muscles can be a bitch. Sox will probably play it very safe with him.

That's why friends and neighbors you should have six starters available either at the big league level or both the big league team and your top minor league club regardless of costs. It's very rare when a staff can go an entire season without somebody getting hurt. That philosophy should do the Sox well in the short term until Danks comes back.

Regarding today, nice win under difficult circumstances but the constant still remains, 2-9 with runners in scoring position.

This team sucks hitting a baseball... and until that changes, more than an inconsistent defense, an inability to beat garbage clubs or win against teams in your own division; the Sox will be hard pressed to put together any kind of sustained win streak.

It's going on three months now next week and this club is still in as bad a funk hitting-wise as I've seen a Sox team in the last 40 years or so.

Lip

LongLiveFisk
06-25-2011, 07:56 PM
It's going on three months now next week and this club is still in as bad a funk hitting-wise as I've seen a Sox team in the last 40 years or so.

Lip

I haven't been watching Sox baseball for quite as long but I would agree this is the worst extended hitting funk I can ever remember as well. I am quite sure the 2011 White Sox will be used as a benchmark for measuring future team hitting slumps.

TDog
06-25-2011, 08:08 PM
...
Regarding today, nice win under difficult circumstances but the constant still remains, 2-9 with runners in scoring position.

This team sucks hitting a baseball... and until that changes, more than an inconsistent defense, an inability to beat garbage clubs or win against teams in your own division; the Sox will be hard pressed to put together any kind of sustained win streak.

It's going on three months now next week and this club is still in as bad a funk hitting-wise as I've seen a Sox team in the last 40 years or so.

Lip

Two for nine with runners in scoring position isn't that bad. It's actually pretty close to average, especially when you consider that three for 10 would be exceptionally good. The Twins are one for their last 30. In today's Giants game, the Giants and Indians didn't get any hits in 12 at bats with runners in scoring position.

veeter
06-25-2011, 08:10 PM
I love patchwork wins like this. With anything out of Dunn, Rios(earlier), Pierre and Beckham, this team would be well over .500. The pitching has been pretty damn good all year. I think this team will keep up watching until the end. Division title? Maybe...maybe not. They're just goofy enough to pull something off, like winning the pennant.

captain54
06-25-2011, 08:13 PM
It's going on three months now next week and this club is still in as bad a funk hitting-wise as I've seen a Sox team in the last 40 years or so.

Lip

Reiney: Hey Greg, this team is in as bad a hitting funk as I've seen since Einhorn and I bought the team back in the early 80's! any way you can help these guys figure it out?

Walker: I wish I could answer that JR, but I was just about to take a nap right now...I'll catch you later..

Reiney: No problem, Greg..whenever you get around to it.

Lip Man 1
06-25-2011, 08:17 PM
T-Dog:

Multiply that by how many games this year and you have a very serious issue.

With all due respect (as Ozzie would say...LOL) not that bad, my ass.

And they have to be God awful at driving a guy home from 3rd with less than two out. Eddie Stanky would have had a heart attack with this bunch if he even had anybody left to play.

Stanky (as I'm sure you remember) would bench guys if they failed to execute little things like driving a guy home from 3rd with less than two out, being able to move a runner over or executing a bunt. He had the hammer and used it.

Wish Ozzie would at least try that approach with players from time to time..."coddling them" (for wont of a better word) isn't solving the problem apparently.

And saying stupid things like "well there's nothing you can do" is most assuredly NOT helping matters.

Lip

doublem23
06-25-2011, 08:18 PM
Sounds like Eddie Stanky was a ****ing prick

voodoochile
06-25-2011, 08:31 PM
Very impressive pitching performance by the bullpen. couldnt watch so hope Danks is okay. Nice to see some late inning insurance runs and Santos continues to prove he should be the closer. For all the grief our management team takes they did a great job rebuilding his confidence after the blown save. I do think he needs to be more careful and selective throwing his slider (?) for a strike because when guys sit on it, they kill it as we saw last night in the 10th.

Still the Toons lost so the Sox are...

2 games under 3.5 back and while I'd love to see them go on a tear and just jump in the lead at least they are still climbing back into things.

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

voodoochile
06-25-2011, 08:34 PM
I didn't have an opportunity to see the game today as the Giants beating the Indians 1-0 (on two errors and a balk) was being shown in NoCal. Actually, Fox switched to the Sox in the bottom of the eighth, and I got to see the two-run third of an inning. They went back to SF for interviews as Lillibridge was missing a suicide squeeze. I would have been upset to see "missed bunt" pop up on the screen with one out and a man on third for the White Sox if not for the hit by Castro.

Lillibridge had a successful suicide squeeze against the Cubs this week that helped win a one-run game. Pierre drove in a run the night before with a bunt, but apparently it wasn't a suicide squeeze. At least today, the failure to execute didn't cost the Sox a game.

The pitching was just so good. Even with the starter injured early and the bullpen having gone seven the night before, the Sox pitching was phenomenally good against a team that has been playing great baseball.

Just to ease your mind they didn't show that at all on the screen. Instead we got the big flashy "caught stealing" at least on the MLB version of gameday leaving us to figure out what happened which I did no problem, but they never did mention it was a failed suicide squeeze.

manders_01
06-25-2011, 08:39 PM
It's sad that had the Sox lost this game, there would already be 5 pages of posts by now.

Anyways, great job by the pitching staff to pick up when Danks left - especially after everyone was used last night.

Jake was an absolute bulldog out there.

Very happy to get a win after the stomach punch loss last night.

Might have something to do with the Fox blackout with out of market posters like myself. Wish I could have seen the game. Hope Johnny recovers soon.

http://www.carpron.com/multisite/d/377652-1/cousin+eddie+Bingo.jpg


It's hard to comment on games I don't see because even if I listen to them, I still don't really grasp what has happened. ****ing FOX! :angry:

But still super happy for the win! :bandance:

Nelfox02
06-25-2011, 09:02 PM
out and about today so caught most of this one on the radio.....have to admit when Danks had to leave and it was announced Bruney was coming into a 1-0 game.....I figured we were toast unless we put up a ton of runs......nice surprise on the result.

hats off to Peavy

curious how long Danks will have to be out......sucks......but as a previous poster said this is the luxury of having 6 viable starters....we all know too well how awful it is to have awful pitchers revolving in the 5 spot of the rotation

big expectations for Phil tomorrow....but for the love of god score some runs for him....heck I will take half of what we put up in his last start

Nelfox02
06-25-2011, 09:07 PM
Did his performance today do anything for Bruney's stock?

JB98
06-25-2011, 09:09 PM
Did his performance today do anything for Bruney's stock?

Not for me. He's a mediocre journeyman. He shouldn't be placed in too many high-leverage situations.

Nice outing today, though.

Zakath
06-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Just got home from this one. Kind of a frustrating game to watch in person. Nationals really never threatened the entire game, but the offense could never really take command of the game until the 8th. Lot of pop-ups in key situations.

Boo birds are really getting heavy for Dunn, who got a sardonic cheer when he drew the walk in the 8th. Seemed all day that Lillibridge was making the last out of every inning, while Dunn was leading off and getting us 1 out immediately. Dunn's troubles seem to have no end, but it looks like we're starting to see some of the Alex Rios we saw in 2010. Nice 7-game hitting streak including 3 today.

Impressed with Bruney's performance, especially after the disaster of last night, and what can you say about Peavy except stellar (save for the pick-off throw that Dunn had no chance on). 7 K's in 4 innings of work out of the pen, and the Nats had little hope of getting anything together off of him.

Just have to go out tomorrow behind Humber and try to take the 18th straight interleague series.

Every time I go to a game, I'm almost stunned at the amount of money people plunk down for concessions. When you're watching people eat nachos, pretzels, 2-3 beers, water, ice cream, etc., cash registers are just going off in my head. To each his own, I guess...

Lip Man 1
06-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Double:

He was...some players loved him, some hated him but all agreed (at least the ones that I interviewed for WSI, check them out) that he was a brilliant tactician. Usually one step ahead at all times of the opposing manager. Was from the old school, he'd tell you you were 'horse****' right to your face and if you didn't like it, you had the chance to do something about it.

Bought new shoes for any player who advanced a runner from second to third base with less than two outs, bought a new suit for any pitcher who threw a complete game with at least 21 ground ball outs. (Bought so many suits for the Sox staff in 67 he had to stop doing it after the All Star Break, he couldn't afford it anymore...)

But he got the absolute best out of his teams, the 67 Sox had absolutely no business being in the race with their hitting...but somehow they were. Part of that somehow was Stanky.

I guarantee you if somehow he was manager of this bunch, they'd be executing the little things better than they are currently doing or they wouldn't play until they did...that simple. He'd drill them until they figured it out.

Also some numbers for everyone:

Sox have now played 78 games. In 37 of them (47%) they have scored three runs or less. The record in those games is what you'd expect 7-30. I was surprised it was that "good" to be honest with you.

Sox have also lost nine games this year where they held an opponent to three runs or less.

Lip

doublem23
06-25-2011, 09:33 PM
"Brilliant tactians" finish better than 3rd place at least, I don't know, once, and do better than a .500-ish record.

voodoochile
06-25-2011, 09:41 PM
"Brilliant tactians" finish better than 3rd place at least, I don't know, once, and do better than a .500-ish record.

And sometimes even win a pennant or even (gasp) a World Series...

ChiSoxGal85
06-25-2011, 09:56 PM
Just got home from this one. Kind of a frustrating game to watch in person. Nationals really never threatened the entire game, but the offense could never really take command of the game until the 8th. Lot of pop-ups in key situations.

Boo birds are really getting heavy for Dunn, who got a sardonic cheer when he drew the walk in the 8th. Seemed all day that Lillibridge was making the last out of every inning, while Dunn was leading off and getting us 1 out immediately. Dunn's troubles seem to have no end, but it looks like we're starting to see some of the Alex Rios we saw in 2010. Nice 7-game hitting streak including 3 today.

Impressed with Bruney's performance, especially after the disaster of last night, and what can you say about Peavy except stellar (save for the pick-off throw that Dunn had no chance on). 7 K's in 4 innings of work out of the pen, and the Nats had little hope of getting anything together off of him.

Just have to go out tomorrow behind Humber and try to take the 18th straight interleague series.

Every time I go to a game, I'm almost stunned at the amount of money people plunk down for concessions. When you're watching people eat nachos, pretzels, 2-3 beers, water, ice cream, etc., cash registers are just going off in my head. To each his own, I guess...

Just got back myself, and pretty much just say "Ditto" to your entire post. Especially the concessions. :tongue:

Didn't see exactly what happened to Danks - I was too busy watching the play, and the next thing I knew here comes Herm. :o: Calling in Bruney made me cringe, but between he, Danks, Peavy and Santos...a 2-hitter! I'll take it. Buerhle went out to the bullpen at one point before Peavy went in, so I wondered if he might get the call.

Notes: Lillibridge with another web gem catch; Rios has been very consistent at the plate lately; Morel goes 3 for 4 and he has been hitting pretty consistently to right/right center. Beckham with a couple of good plays. Castro doesn't get much love here, but he does a pretty nice job for our backup catcher.

Nice win.

Bruney, Peavy, & Santos pitched great after Danks left the game with an oblique injury.

I hope Johnny Danks is gonna be okay.

I loved seeing/hearing Sox fans get behind Dunn and cheer him on in the 8th inning.

Funny, it started out as a cheer FOR Dunn and then got derisive when he walked. Dunn looks like he just doesn't see the ball at all.

I have to add that I wish could afford to go to more than just a couple of games a year. I really enjoy it.

Zakath
06-25-2011, 10:27 PM
Didn't see exactly what happened to Danks - I was too busy watching the play, and the next thing I knew here comes Herm. :o: Calling in Bruney made me cringe, but between he, Danks, Peavy and Santos...a 2-hitter! I'll take it. Buerhle went out to the bullpen at one point before Peavy went in, so I wondered if he might get the call.


I saw Peavy go out pretty much right after the Danks injury (I was in 164, just to the left of the Fan Deck) and saw Peavy start to warm up in the 3rd. Didn't figure Bruney was going to go as long as he did, but give the guy credit. Floyd had also gone out there about an inning later and I wasn't sure who was going to get the call; thankfully, it was Peavy and he was fantastic.


Notes: Lillibridge with another web gem catch; Rios has been very consistent at the plate lately; Morel goes 3 for 4 and he has been hitting pretty consistently to right/right center. Beckham with a couple of good plays. Castro doesn't get much love here, but he does a pretty nice job for our backup catcher.
Alex is 12-for-28 in this 7-game streak, and has pulled his average up 23 points in that time. Lifting his hands up off his waist has paid off. If he can "learn" to go with the outside pitches to opposite field and not try to pull everything, he can really become the Rios of 2010.

Castro's numbers aren't impressive, and he really doesn't wow you when you see him at the plate and especially on the basepaths, but he gets the job done. He had an instrumental part in today's win and hell, actually threw someone out (who was probably safe, but hey, we'll take it). He seems to come up with big hits when the rest of the team doesn't.


Funny, it started out as a cheer FOR Dunn and then got derisive when he walked. Dunn looks like he just doesn't see the ball at all.

I could swear the boo birds were already out when he stepped up in the 8th. It was definitely derisive when he drew the walk.

sunofgold
06-25-2011, 10:47 PM
The Nationals' players and coaches are saying that Peavy had great stuff. It reminded them on when he played in the NL. Great velocity too. That is very encouraging. Peavy just has to stay healthy.

I heard some of the interviews and I believe Ozzie said that Buehrle and Floyd also volunteered to pitch out of the pen after Danks had to leave.

Seems like the troops rallied together. Today could have easily been a disaster after Danks left and our bullpen already taxed. Hate to see Danks get hurt but impressed in how our team handled adversity. Hope that this is the start of good things to come. Tired of this team being consistently inconsistent. lol. We need a big winning streak now.

Lip Man 1
06-25-2011, 11:02 PM
Double:

With respect I'll take the comments from the men who played for him over your opinion.

Lip

Lip Man 1
06-25-2011, 11:03 PM
Gentlemen:

If winning a pennant or a World Series is the criteria for a brilliant tactician or even a good manager than 95% of all Sox managers in history don't make the grade.

Hell make that most managers anywhere at anytime. You need a lot to go right, an awful lot to go right to even get there let alone win one. Does that make Ozzie a good manager...LOL?

The White Sox in 1967 had a season team batting average of .225....let me repeat that .225, yet they won 89 games.

Yea I think the manager had a little something to do with that number.

Lip

JermaineDye05
06-25-2011, 11:22 PM
I'd like to see another day off for Pierre.

I had to work overtime today so I didn't get to watch today's game.

sunofgold
06-25-2011, 11:25 PM
I don't know all of the details. I heard this blurb on the radio. Something to the effect that since Peavy had never been a reliever and wasn't scheduled to start any games this series...the Nationals didn't study or have video (not 100% clear on which) of Peavy.

How about that curveball? lol!

FielderJones
06-25-2011, 11:27 PM
If we get today's Peavy for the majority of the rest of the season, we'll be in good shape, and might be able to move a pitcher for prospects at the deadline to a team in the NL.


:bong:

Trading a starter is crazy. The Sox are still in a division race because they have a good starting staff that can withstand injury. If someone goes down after the deadline we'll be looking at AAA crap every fifth day.

sunofgold
06-25-2011, 11:36 PM
Don't trade any of our six starters. Starting pitching has been the most consistent part of this team. Actually, we could use another arm in the bullpen. And we really need Rios and Dunn to produce.

cards press box
06-25-2011, 11:45 PM
Peavy was really, really good today.

I agree. When his team needed him most, Peavy was nothing short of terrific.

:winner

canOcorn
06-26-2011, 12:07 AM
"Brilliant tactians" finish better than 3rd place at least, I don't know, once, and do better than a .500-ish record.

Depends on the talent and performance of the team. A gerbil could have managed the White Sox to the title in 2005 and he did. :shrug:

Tragg
06-26-2011, 12:08 AM
Not for me. He's a mediocre journeyman. He shouldn't be placed in too many high-leverage situations.

Nice outing today, though.
Right - long relief; NOT with runners on in the 8th inning of a tie game.

Zakath
06-26-2011, 12:13 AM
Don't trade any of our six starters. Starting pitching has been the most consistent part of this team. Actually, we could use another arm in the bullpen. And we really need Rios and Dunn to produce.

Rios is starting to come around.

Dunn may not have hit rock-bottom yet.

manders_01
06-26-2011, 12:35 AM
The Nationals' players and coaches are saying that Peavy had great stuff. It reminded them on when he played in the NL. Great velocity too. That is very encouraging. Peavy just has to stay healthy.

I heard some of the interviews and I believe Ozzie said that Buehrle and Floyd also volunteered to pitch out of the pen after Danks had to leave.

Seems like the troops rallied together. Today could have easily been a disaster after Danks left and our bullpen already taxed. Hate to see Danks get hurt but impressed in how our team handled adversity. Hope that this is the start of good things to come. Tired of this team being consistently inconsistent. lol. We need a big winning streak now.

I like this! Teamwork makes the dream work! :D:

TheOldRoman
06-26-2011, 12:56 AM
A gerbil could have managed the White Sox to the title in 2005 and he did. :shrug:That is 100% pure bull****. Ozzie had a lot to do with that team. He helped develop Garland and Contreras by trusting them and allowing them to go deep into games, working through jams. Strategically, he was great that year. He made better decisions, changed players when necessary, trusted rookies, etc. Since then he has fallen into managing "by the book". You have made it clear time and again that you hate Ozzie, but pretending like he didn't have a huge impact on that team makes you look bad.

Tragg
06-26-2011, 01:03 AM
Don't trade any of our six starters. Starting pitching has been the most consistent part of this team. Actually, we could use another arm in the bullpen. And we really need Rios and Dunn to produce.

Rios is getting better.
The last thing the Sox should do is chase yet another middle reliever in the trade market for some of our scarce young players. The last reliever trade that worked was Thornton, and then Marte nearly a decade ago. Bruney's fine as the last man. The pen appears short because Guillen uses Sale as a situational lefty (nice use of a 1RDC) when that gig should be Ohman's and his alone.

doublem23
06-26-2011, 01:15 AM
Double:

With respect I'll take the comments from the men who played for him over your opinion.

Lip

Yeah and plenty of guys that have played the game laud Ozzie for his managerial skills but that hasn't stopped anyone (yourself included) from ripping him. Not that I am defending him, but come on, at least keep your arguments consistent.

Anyways, the moral of this story is that Eddie Stanky was a ****ty manager who never won anything and basically doesn't deserve to have his named ever uttered again. You guys from the 60s can keep him.

TDog
06-26-2011, 01:16 AM
T-Dog:

Multiply that by how many games this year and you have a very serious issue.

With all due respect (as Ozzie would say...LOL) not that bad, my ass.

And they have to be God awful at driving a guy home from 3rd with less than two out. Eddie Stanky would have had a heart attack with this bunch if he even had anybody left to play.

Stanky (as I'm sure you remember) would bench guys if they failed to execute little things like driving a guy home from 3rd with less than two out, being able to move a runner over or executing a bunt. He had the hammer and used it.

Wish Ozzie would at least try that approach with players from time to time..."coddling them" (for wont of a better word) isn't solving the problem apparently.

And saying stupid things like "well there's nothing you can do" is most assuredly NOT helping matters.

Lip

With all due respect, if you watched more baseball being played today, you would see that most teams aren't playing fundamentals any better than the White Sox. (The Indians have lost two one-run games in San Francisco this weekend, and in both games the winning run was scored in an inning with two infield errors. Today the only run of the game scored on a bases-loaded balk after the Giants loaded the bases on two errors and a walk.) Multiply the White Sox failures and successes over the course of the season, and you will find they are pretty close to average in hitting with runners in scoring position. The Twins are now two for their last 36 with runners in scoring position.

Today, the White Sox were successful in driving in the runner from third base with less than two outs in two of three opportunities. The first run in the game came on a sacrifice fly. The second run of the game was standing on third with less one out. (Technically, Lillibridge didn't end up with a runner-on-third-with-less-than-two-out situation in the eighth because Rios was caught stealing, but we know the Sox weren't perfect in getting the runner home with less than two outs.) The fact is, if you win it doesn't matter.

In Eddie Stanky's best year of managing the White Sox, 1967, the White Sox hit only .234 with runners in scoring position. Still, the league only hit .242 with runners in scoring position overall. With a runner on third and less than two outs, White Sox hitters that season struck out nearly 34 percent of the time. The American League average was about 21 percent. The White Sox had only one of the 29 sacrifice bunts accomplished with a runner on third that year. There may have been successful squeeze plays that went for hits as sometimes happens, but the White Sox under Eddie Stanky that I remember were more frustrating offensively than the White Sox under Ozzie Guillen, hammer or no.

doublem23
06-26-2011, 01:21 AM
Depends on the talent and performance of the team. A gerbil could have managed the White Sox to the title in 2005 and he did. :shrug:

This is why it is hard to take your posts seriously.

doublem23
06-26-2011, 01:22 AM
in eddie stanky's best year of managing the white sox, 1967, the white sox hit only .234 with runners in scoring position. Still, the league only hit .242 with runners in scoring position overall. With a runner on third and less than two outs, white sox hitters that season struck out nearly 34 percent of the time. The american league average was about 21 percent. The white sox had only one of the 29 sacrifice bunts accomplished with a runner on third that year. There may have been successful squeeze plays that went for hits as sometimes happens, but the white sox under eddie stanky that i remember were more frustrating offensively than the white sox under ozzie guillen, hammer or no.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oh ****.

hawkjt
06-26-2011, 01:52 AM
With all due respect, if you watched more baseball being played today, you would see that most teams aren't playing fundamentals any better than the White Sox. (The Indians have lost two one-run games in San Francisco this weekend, and in both games the winning run was scored in an inning with two infield errors. Today the only run of the game scored on a bases-loaded balk after the Giants loaded the bases on two errors and a walk.) Multiply the White Sox failures and successes over the course of the season, and you will find they are pretty close to average in hitting with runners in scoring position. The Twins are now two for their last 36 with runners in scoring position.

Today, the White Sox were successful in driving in the runner from third base with less than two outs in two of three opportunities. The first run in the game came on a sacrifice fly. The second run of the game was standing on third with less one out. (Technically, Lillibridge didn't end up with a runner-on-third-with-less-than-two-out situation in the eighth because Rios was caught stealing, but we know the Sox weren't perfect in getting the runner home with less than two outs.) The fact is, if you win it doesn't matter.

In Eddie Stanky's best year of managing the White Sox, 1967, the White Sox hit only .234 with runners in scoring position. Still, the league only hit .242 with runners in scoring position overall. With a runner on third and less than two outs, White Sox hitters that season struck out nearly 34 percent of the time. The American League average was about 21 percent. The White Sox had only one of the 29 sacrifice bunts accomplished with a runner on third that year. There may have been successful squeeze plays that went for hits as sometimes happens, but the White Sox under Eddie Stanky that I remember were more frustrating offensively than the White Sox under Ozzie Guillen, hammer or no.


I agree. I have seen many teams struggle like the Sox in moving runners along,and scoring them from third with less than two outs. I truly believe that pitching is better and better lately,with so many guys throwing 94+,it is ridiculous. Jordan Zimmerman last nite was simply lights out tough.
Today Gordzelanik was good. He was hitting his spots,and had guys like Paulie baffled....when that happens,he is good.

Dank's oblique sounds pretty bad from his postgame,said he was in a lot of pain...this coming from a guy who said that laser off his head did not hurt last start. I am sure he will not be back before the All Star break. That really really sucks cuz he was getting in a great groove....thankfully,Jake and Brunell did a great job,and Serge was back in his proper role(looking at you,Oz) and came in with a lead to close it out.

Jake's stuff was absolutely electric...best of the year.Kind of shocking coming off of 2 days rest. Luckily, we can flip Edwin into thursday for Jake and Jake can pitch friday on full rest. Gavin can go tuesday,then Sunday on a normal 4 day rest,which I think might benefit him as he seems less sharp on 5 days. If Danks can pitch after the all star break that would give him up to 24 days to be ready,if needed.

Meanwhile,Sox must rush Harrel or someone up to help out the bullpen,which might be good in the shortrun...another righty please.

Sox need to get a win vs Livan Hernandez tomorrow..their 18th straight interleague series win,and 5th series win in 6 series overall...as bad as fans complain about how the Sox are currently playing...5 of 6 series is not the worst. Isn't that what they preach...''just win series''?

thomas35forever
06-26-2011, 02:40 AM
Peavy came in and sure did the job just when all looked lost. If we can get this stuff from him for the rest of the year, that's going to be huge.

voodoochile
06-26-2011, 02:53 AM
Just want to point out that Bruney also has an ERA currently of 3.86. Yes, I know he didn't perform well last night, but the guy has hardly been horrific so far in a Sox uniform. He has been up and down a bit, but that's true of most teams' b-tier relievers.

In fact since giving up 2 runs in his very first appearance he hadn't yielded a run until last night. He's issuing more walks than I'd like to see a reliever give up, but he's far from the horrible piece of **** many were claiming him to be last night. For Bruney to come in and give the performance he gave tonight which the Sox desperately needed to allow Jake time to get loose and wrap his head around coming in on short rest and off his usual pattern was a huge pick me up - more so given the extended innings the bullpen put in last night. To do it after having struggled so badly just last night speaks volumes of Bruney's character and mental toughness.

kufram
06-26-2011, 04:11 AM
For all the comments on the lack of offense... as long as you score one more run than the opposition you have enough.

A lot of positives to take from both of the last two games. I see evidence of a team emerging. That doesn't mean it will continue but if these players start picking each other up like this then better things will happen.

The main point of the day is that we're nearing halfway and the games matter and actually matter more each day. A lot of people were writing us off in May. The 6 man rotation is looking pretty smart right now. Rios is starting to hit and starting to get things to fall in.

There have been many reasons to not enjoy games already so far this year. I find it best to just enjoy the wins and take each game as it comes. Forget what happened yesterday, don't look ahead, and just play today's game.

As far as a gerbil managing in '05? Never mind.... can't waste the 30 seconds to reply to that.

soxfan1965
06-26-2011, 07:24 AM
Double:

He was...some players loved him, some hated him but all agreed (at least the ones that I interviewed for WSI, check them out) that he was a brilliant tactician. Usually one step ahead at all times of the opposing manager. Was from the old school, he'd tell you you were 'horse****' right to your face and if you didn't like it, you had the chance to do something about it.

Bought new shoes for any player who advanced a runner from second to third base with less than two outs, bought a new suit for any pitcher who threw a complete game with at least 21 ground ball outs. (Bought so many suits for the Sox staff in 67 he had to stop doing it after the All Star Break, he couldn't afford it anymore...)

But he got the absolute best out of his teams, the 67 Sox had absolutely no business being in the race with their hitting...but somehow they were. Part of that somehow was Stanky.

I guarantee you if somehow he was manager of this bunch, they'd be executing the little things better than they are currently doing or they wouldn't play until they did...that simple. He'd drill them until they figured it out.

Also some numbers for everyone:

Sox have now played 78 games. In 37 of them (47%) they have scored three runs or less. The record in those games is what you'd expect 7-30. I was surprised it was that "good" to be honest with you.

Sox have also lost nine games this year where they held an opponent to three runs or less.

Lip

Stanky was the same way as a player, he had little talent but would do what it took to win (to the dislike of the other team). I recall his teams winning a lot of 1 run, low scoring games. This team has more highly compensated offensive talent (on paper) than the 67 team but aren't getting the job done. Of course Stanky's people skills and tangible incentives in the era of free agency would not cut it today, but he did what he could in his era to win. Players do get into hitting slumps, which is often out of their control, but at least do what's in control, good fundamentals (e.g. sorely needed in the top of second inning on Saturday), something inexcusable for what they are paid. Maybe the league should ban long term contracts, perhaps a disincentive for dilgence of the fundamentals and studying pitchers.

Johnny Mostil
06-26-2011, 08:29 AM
This is why it is hard to take your posts seriously.

FWIW (and I don't expect Lip to say it's worth anything), the Sox Pythagorean W-L in 1967 was 87-75 (actual W-L 89-73). In 2005, the Sox Pythagorean W-L was 91-71 (actual W-L 99-63).

Johnny Mostil
06-26-2011, 08:39 AM
With a runner on third and less than two outs, White Sox hitters that season struck out nearly 34 percent of the time. The American League average was about 21 percent.

Interesting stuff. Also, as near as I can tell, in plate appearances with a Sox runner on third and less than two outs in 1967, Sox hitters scored the runner 46 percent of the time (league average also 46 percent). In the same situation in 2011, Sox hitters scored the runner 47 percent of the time (which is below the league average of 52 percent).

Dan H
06-26-2011, 08:42 AM
Peavy came in and sure did the job just when all looked lost. If we can get this stuff from him for the rest of the year, that's going to be huge.

Peavy has taken a lot of criticism, but this guy is a real competitor. His stuff looked great.

Chez
06-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Rios is getting better.
.

Correction. Rios' results are getting better. He didn't hit the ball hard once yesterday and had three hits to show for it.

kittle42
06-26-2011, 10:34 AM
That is 100% pure bull****. Ozzie had a lot to do with that team. He helped develop Garland and Contreras by trusting them and allowing them to go deep into games, working through jams. Strategically, he was great that year. He made better decisions, changed players when necessary, trusted rookies, etc. Since then he has fallen into managing "by the book". You have made it clear time and again that you hate Ozzie, but pretending like he didn't have a huge impact on that team makes you look bad.

Agreed. I want Ozzie gone as much as the next guy, because he has just been so bad this season and last - but you *have* to give the man a good amount of credit in 2005. They were not winning despite him.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-26-2011, 10:48 AM
Agreed. I want Ozzie gone as much as the next guy, because he has just been so bad this season and last - but you *have* to give the man a good amount of credit in 2005. They were not winning despite him.

No, but some people act like he's God's gift to managing when in reality the entire pitching staff had career years (or close to it) and then went on a post-season run of historic proportions. It wasn't Ozzie, Pods, "small ball" or anything else. It was all about the pitching. And yes, Ozzie deserves some credit but not nearly enough to earn a lifetime pass to escape scrutiny on all his other decisions.

hawkjt
06-26-2011, 10:54 AM
No, but some people act like he's God's gift to managing when in reality the entire pitching staff had career years (or close to it) and then went on a post-season run of historic proportions. It wasn't Ozzie, Pods, "small ball" or anything else. It was all about the pitching. And yes, Ozzie deserves some credit but not nearly enough to earn a lifetime pass to escape scrutiny on all his other decisions.


I go on the Tigers fan board,and they hate Leyland.
I would guess that 90% of fanbases dislike their managers.
Baseball is the ultimate second-guessing game,and it is the nature of the beast. All you can go on in the end is the W/L record,and Ozzie's is the best in modern Sox history. He makes tons of mistakes but it is about making less mistakes than the other guys,and he has done that as Sox manager more than any other guy. Fans think there is a magic bullet-manager....he aint been born yet.

Tragg
06-26-2011, 11:10 AM
I go on the Tigers fan board,and they hate Leyland.
I would guess that 90% of fanbases dislike their managers.
Baseball is the ultimate second-guessing game,and it is the nature of the beast. All you can go on in the end is the W/L record,and Ozzie's is the best in modern Sox history. He makes tons of mistakes but it is about making less mistakes than the other guys,and he has done that as Sox manager more than any other guy. Fans think there is a magic bullet-manager....he aint been born yet.

I don't recall another manager with the payrolls and high priced talent that Guillen has enjoyed. His w/l percentage is .526, compared to .515 of Torborg and Manuel.
He was a better manager before and through the WS...I think that emboldened him to use his silly theories and Williams rewarded that WS by listening to him on personnel matters and his judgment on personnel, particularly position players, is his greatest weakness, imo. The 2nd half of 2007 should have been used solely to develop and evaluate young players, and he was more interested in wheeling out utility players and bad veterans game after game.
He certainly isn't the worst manager in the game by a long shot. Despite the lack of "emotion" people see from the players, I think they play hard game after game.

kufram
06-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Agreed. I want Ozzie gone as much as the next guy, because he has just been so bad this season and last - but you *have* to give the man a good amount of credit in 2005. They were not winning despite him.


I agree too. No one can deny the pitching we had in '05. But we did not have a big offensive team either. We had an incredible record in one run ballgames. You don't win those games if the manager isn't making the right calls.

Wasn't Ozzie the guy calling the steals, the hit and runs, the bunts, the pinch hitters and runners, making out the line up cards, etc.? It's not about a lifetime pass but I, for one, don't want to forget it or act like it was 86 years ago either. Whatever has happened after that I think every player and staff member on that team has earned a modicum of respect even when they fail now.

jdm2662
06-26-2011, 11:29 AM
No, but some people act like he's God's gift to managing when in reality the entire pitching staff had career years (or close to it) and then went on a post-season run of historic proportions. It wasn't Ozzie, Pods, "small ball" or anything else. It was all about the pitching. And yes, Ozzie deserves some credit but not nearly enough to earn a lifetime pass to escape scrutiny on all his other decisions.

No one deserves a lifetime pass. I thought Ozzie did a fantastic job as manager in both 2004 and 2005. I still think he's a decent manager overall, but he's nothing special and not irreplaceable. He is certainly not worth the baggage and his general doucheness he brings. (I'm not even sure if that's a word, but whatever).

Whether we like it or not, there is a price in success with sports or anything in life. The egos of the people in charge goes through the roof when the biggest goal is accomplished. It also doesn't help when the entire universe kisses your ass. We saw it with the Bulls in the 90s. We saw it with the Bears in 1985 and 2006. We saw it with the Blackhawks last year. Most people think they can do no wrong. In reality, everything needs to go your way. It very rarely does. Ozzie isn't nearly as great as he thinks he is. Kenny is the same way. But, neither one of them will admit that.

SOXSINCE'70
06-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Only 3.5 games back. Hope T'gers lose tonight.

With Verlander on the mound?? Good luck with that.
He threw a CG with 14 K's in a 6-0 Tiggers win.:o: Arguably,he is the best
pitcher in the A.L. right now.

SOXSINCE'70
06-26-2011, 11:42 AM
Correction. Rios' results are getting better.

Once he start hitting doubles and home runs,the results will REALLY improve.Adam Dunn,on the other hand,
has to convince people his last name isn't spelled D-O-N-E. I am pulling like crazy for this guy, but something
needs to be done about that long loopy swing.

whitesoxfan1986
06-26-2011, 12:09 PM
:bong:

Trading a starter is crazy. The Sox are still in a division race because they have a good starting staff that can withstand injury. If someone goes down after the deadline we'll be looking at AAA crap every fifth day.
For some reason it slipped my mind that Danks got hurt today. If he's out for a long period of time, then of course the Sox don't have that luxury. However-IF they can get an ML ready, legit pitching prospect in return, then they still have that luxury because they can bring that guy up in case of injury.

voodoochile
06-26-2011, 12:29 PM
FWIW (and I don't expect Lip to say it's worth anything), the Sox Pythagorean W-L in 1967 was 87-75 (actual W-L 89-73). In 2005, the Sox Pythagorean W-L was 91-71 (actual W-L 99-63).

Yeah I keep seeing people pointing to teams from long gone eras or at least the early 90's as sound fundamental teams, but you don't need to go that far back. In 2005 the Sox won tons of 1-run games and played very sound fundamental ball as well as playing good defense. Of course many players had career years that year also.

The fact the Sox aren't executing this year has much more to do with the prolonged slumps of some of the major pieces, IMO than it does with the other stuff. I think mistakes are magnified because there have been several which can be pointed at as having contributed directly to a loss.

I think IF this team ever does put it all together or even 90% together they will walk away with the division, but I don't know if that will happen and that would be sad because there's plenty of talent on the team.

Hitmen77
06-26-2011, 01:59 PM
2 games under 3.5 back and while I'd love to see them go on a tear and just jump in the lead at least they are still climbing back into things.



As frustrating, inconsistent, and under achieving as the Sox have been this year, they've certainly been giving a good chance to take the AL Central top spot if they can finally get their offense going. That sure beats being 11 games out like they were last month.

Let's see if Dunn and Rios can finally get things going and if something gives with Pierre - either he starts producing or the Sox give Viciedo a shot or something.

captain54
06-26-2011, 02:53 PM
We had an incredible record in one run ballgames. You don't win those games if the manager isn't making the right calls.

.

I disagree. the 05' Sox had the benefit of a lights out pitching staff and a home-run hitting ballclub with a ballpark to accomodate that. Let's not forget that when those two ingredients were not entirely present, the Sox almost blew one of the largest leads in MLB history..

05' was a magical year and all that, but without a doubt, one huge reprecussion from 05' was that it fed the egos of two already mammoth ego driven humans (Ozzie and KW), into thinking anything they touched would turn to gold.

captain54
06-26-2011, 02:59 PM
The fact the Sox aren't executing this year has much more to do with the prolonged slumps of some of the major pieces, IMO than it does with the other stuff..

You fail to address some of the "other stuff" as being a bullpen that opened the 2011 on a wing and a prayer. A closer who was a career setup guy that had never closed before, with two backups with limited MLB experience. You give me back those games the Sox blew in the first couple of months because of a horrible bullpen and the Sox are in first place today.

Frater Perdurabo
06-26-2011, 04:06 PM
I disagree. the 05' Sox had the benefit of a lights out pitching staff and a home-run hitting ballclub with a ballpark to accomodate that. Let's not forget that when those two ingredients were not entirely present, the Sox almost blew one of the largest leads in MLB history..

05' was a magical year and all that, but without a doubt, one huge reprecussion from 05' was that it fed the egos of two already mammoth ego driven humans (Ozzie and KW), into thinking anything they touched would turn to gold.

The 2005 club also played great defense. Crede, Uribe, Iguchi and PK were an outstanding defensive infield, which really helped the ground ball-inducing pitching staff. Rowand and Dye were solid. Reserves like Timo and Harris were good with the gloves, too. It seemed as if they never missed a double play, which helped the starters pitcher deeper into games, which meant that the relievers had to throw fewer innings. The relievers had confidence to throw strikes, knowing their defense would make the plays.

Let's be honest: the 2005 team did everything well; they rarely beat themselves.

captain54
06-26-2011, 04:32 PM
The 2005 club also played great defense. Crede, Uribe, Iguchi and PK were an outstanding defensive infield, which really helped the ground ball-inducing pitching staff. Rowand and Dye were solid. Reserves like Timo and Harris were good with the gloves, too. It seemed as if they never missed a double play, which helped the starters pitcher deeper into games, which meant that the relievers had to throw fewer innings. The relievers had confidence to throw strikes, knowing their defense would make the plays.

.

The 06' Sox actually had less errors and about an equal Fielding Percentage than the 05' team, and look where they ended up. The 11'
Sox as of now, have a slightly better percentage than the 05' team, and are on a pace to have less errors. So kinda blows your theory out of the water.

Daver
06-26-2011, 04:44 PM
The 06' Sox actually had less errors and about an equal Fielding Percentage than the 05' team, and look where they ended up. The 11'
Sox as of now, have a slightly better percentage than the 05' team, and are on a pace to have less errors. So kinda blows your theory out of the water.


If you are judging defense by number of errors then you don't know enough about it for me to bother discussing it with you.

captain54
06-26-2011, 05:47 PM
If you are judging defense by number of errors then you don't know enough about it for me to bother discussing it with you.

I wasn't really planning on discussing it with you anyway, but thanks for the heads up.

canOcorn
06-27-2011, 01:00 AM
That is 100% pure bull****. Ozzie had a lot to do with that team. He helped develop Garland and Contreras by trusting them and allowing them to go deep into games, working through jams. Strategically, he was great that year. He made better decisions, changed players when necessary, trusted rookies, etc. Since then he has fallen into managing "by the book". You have made it clear time and again that you hate Ozzie, but pretending like he didn't have a huge impact on that team makes you look bad.

Puh-****ing-leaze. Garland was off the charts good to start the seaon - not Ozzie "teaching him the ropes". He had to ask his own teenage kid on who to bat in the World Series. Did a lot of his crap moves work in the regular season pan out? Yes, they did. Much like a dumb**** manager in 1989 he played by the seat of his pants and it played out to his benefit (run Timo, run). Ozzie got lucky that his bullpen was insane that year and he could play his R/L crap and still be fine.

This is why it is hard to take your posts seriously.

Whatever..... :rolleyes:

doublem23
06-27-2011, 12:34 PM
Whatever..... :rolleyes:

You wanna roll your ****ing eyes, be my guest, but here's some free advice: It is hard to take people's opinions seriously when they are always loaded in the same over the top, bull**** rhetoric. Saying someone is dumber than a gerbil qualifies as such. Now, if you want to present your opinion in an intelligent, non-confrontational way that is not grating, people would actually be willing to respond in an intelligent way. Really, I don't give a ****, and if your happy being percieved as a completely biased, out of touch lunatic, what the hell do I care? Carry on.