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CiscoCarlos
07-10-2002, 12:30 AM
I'm surprised they're even considering halting the all-star game after 11 innings. The announcers say everyone can accept a tie game, but it sure doesn't help baseball, particularly this year with its image problems.

Jerry_Manuel
07-10-2002, 12:31 AM
It would looks worse if a pitcher got hurt because he had to go extra.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 12:32 AM
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!!!! Way to go Bud, another great decision to enhance the image of baseball. I thought this was the fans game. Why not have another internet poll to see if the game should be continued or not.

CerberusWG
07-10-2002, 12:41 AM
I think it's smart to end the game in a tie.

kevingrt
07-10-2002, 12:41 AM
SPAM MLB.com THIS F-ING SUCKS *** IS GOING ON WITH PU AND HIS LITTLE LEAGUE I CANT STAND THE MLB ANYMORE IM GOING BACK TO TRIPLE AAA

Chisox353014
07-10-2002, 12:42 AM
No MVP??? What's that bullcrap?!? You're gonna name the award after Ted Williams and then not even give the award out? Geez, baseball can't even do an all-star game right these days!

kevingrt
07-10-2002, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
I think it's smart to end the game in a tie.


TEAL????

Tavarin
07-10-2002, 12:45 AM
If you dont end in an tie, Garcia and Padilla have a chance of injuring themselves, which is worse for the game. They should have made the coaches bat and pitch :) and have an MVP

danman31
07-10-2002, 12:46 AM
I think the move is great, seriously. What if the game goes 15? Garcia and Padilla have to miss a start for their team. Clearly their team's regular season games are more important than the all-star game. After all the all-star game is an exhibition. Besides the fans got to see all the players and for more than 9 innings.

CiscoCarlos
07-10-2002, 12:46 AM
This is worse than kissing your sister!

Jerry_Manuel
07-10-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
No MVP??? What's that bullcrap?!? You're gonna name the award after Ted Williams and then not even give the award out? Geez, baseball can't even do an all-star game right these days!

I'm guessing the thinking was that you never had a winner so it would be unfair to hand one out. I think Bonds would've gotten it myself anyway.

However, at the same time baseball is run by idiots who could screw up a one car funeral.

CerberusWG
07-10-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by kevingrt



TEAL????

No.

doublem23
07-10-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
I think it's smart to end the game in a tie.

I totally agree, Cerb.

Anyone one of you would be SCREAMING for the game to end if that was Buehrle instead of Garcia out there.

Now, as for the no MVP, that's just weird as hell.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 12:50 AM
No more pitchers? This happens because of the dumb rule-of-thumb that everyone plays. There is no reason why every player has to play. None. Especially pitchers.

scottmt
07-10-2002, 12:50 AM
If you can end the game in a tie, why not do like in spring training and let some guys who already played re-enter the game? As the poet Tim McCarver said, "Officialdom has left the building."

doublem23
07-10-2002, 12:53 AM
Because its not healthy for a pitcher to throw a couple of innings, sit down for an hour and then be forced to throw again.

Why do you think they take them out after rain delays?

scottmt
07-10-2002, 12:53 AM
... for that matter, why not do something seat-of-the-pants like a sudden death home run contest to decide the winner?

sox_fan_forever
07-10-2002, 12:57 AM
I agree that ending the game was the right thing to do. However, this no MVP thing does not make sense to me.

danman31
07-10-2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
No more pitchers? This happens because of the dumb rule-of-thumb that everyone plays. There is no reason why every player has to play. None. Especially pitchers. Ok, this is just idiotic. An overwhelming majority of the time the game will end in 9 innings and everybody deserves to play. If the game ends in 9 some guys don't get to play, which is wrong.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 01:01 AM
The only poetic justice I can derive from all this is that he f***** his own fans. I find myself chuckling that this happened in Milwaukee. Bud's big moment in his new park, and screws it up. HA HA HA HA HA

VeeckAsInWreck
07-10-2002, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by scottmt
... for that matter, why not do something seat-of-the-pants like a sudden death home run contest to decide the winner?

I nominate you to be the new commissioner of baseball!

Binky_Bee
07-10-2002, 01:05 AM
F*** MLB, this Union Painter can spend his $30 an hour at a bar or on his new '02 F150.

Screw you, b-ball

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by danman31
Ok, this is just idiotic. An overwhelming majority of the time the game will end in 9 innings and everybody deserves to play. If the game ends in 9 some guys don't get to play, which is wrong.

Why? Tell me why everyone has to play? Especially pitchers. This is a game that should have an end. I have no problem with having all the POSITION players in, but the manager has 12-13 pitchers, and you can't go more than 11 innings? As the manager of the squad, they have a responsibility to MANAGE the team. A starter can't pitch two innings in the game? What a bunch of crap.

And BTW, feel free to disagree with me. I welcome it, and it is the source for discussion, however, to call my post idiotic, only discredits your post in the opposition.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 01:08 AM
Four words for all of you who think they should have continued to play: It's an exhibition game!

Remeber that this game doesn't count in the standings. The games these pitchers have to pitch in starting Thursday do.

As far as everyone playing, how pissed would you all be if Konerko sat on the bench the whole game?

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Why? Tell me why everyone has to play? Especially pitchers. This is a game that should have an end. I have no problem with having all the POSITION palyers in, but the manager has 12-13 pitchers, and you can't go more than 11 innings? As the manager of the squad, they have a responsibility to MANAGE the team. A starter can't pitch two innings in the game? What a bunch of crap.

And BTW, feel free to disagree with me. I welcome it, and it is the source for discussion, however, to call my post idiotic, only discredits your post in the opposition.

It's not an idiotic post but you're not looking at the health of the players. These pitchers live by routine. They have their set workouts based on pitching every 5 days. Making them through 50 or 60 pitches on 2 or 3 days rest is not a good idea. Especially when they have to go back and pitch for their own teams in just a couple of days.

danman31
07-10-2002, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Why? Tell me why everyone has to play? Especially pitchers. This is a game that should have an end. I have no problem with having all the POSITION palyers in, but the manager has 12-13 pitchers, and you can't go more than 11 innings? As the manager of the squad, they have a responsibility to MANAGE the team. A starter can't pitch two innings in the game? What a bunch of crap.

And BTW, feel free to disagree with me. I welcome it, and it is the source for discussion, however, to call my post idiotic, only discredits your post in the opposition. Ok, put yourself in the shoes of someone who is selected to the all-star team. Honestly tell me you don't want to play. It's tough to do. Glavine and Randy Johnson are vets and have been in all-star games before. The players don't go to the game just to be spectators.

I would understand if you don't like it if I call your post idiodic, but how does it "discredit my post in the opposition?"

nut_stock
07-10-2002, 01:16 AM
You could here the chants of "Selig Sucks!"

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


It's not an idiotic post but you're not looking at the health of the players. These pitchers live by routine. They have their set workouts based on pitching every 5 days. Making them through 50 or 60 pitches on 2 or 3 days rest is not a good idea. Especially when they have to go back and pitch for their own teams in just a couple of days.

I see teams do it in season when something comes up. I believe Mussina and Clemens both did it this year. However, I guess I see the All-Star game as more than exhibition. It is an honor to get here, and players should take it seriously. I know it may throw them off for a couple days, but can't they throw on Saturday or Sunday after the break? Whatever happened to the winner take all spirit, like when Rose (right?) went crashing into the plate? Another sign in my opinion that baseball is cheapening everything. Just my opinion.

pudge
07-10-2002, 01:21 AM
I think the point is not that Garcia and Padilla should have kept pitching - obviously that's not going to happen. (Although I doubt the majority of people in the stands understand that.) Soooo... why doesn't MLB protect against this? Larger rosters, or at least a concept to break a tie... it's just shallow thinking. All the b.s. to start the evening, showing those great baseball moments, and then you get a lame TIE All-Star game. It's just WEAK. Ironic that it happens this year to MLB and in Bud's own house!!

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2002, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by scottmt
... for that matter, why not do something seat-of-the-pants like a sudden death home run contest to decide the winner? Omigod; end the game by playing homerun derby. I can't believe someone even suggested this. Take pitching and defense totally out of the final equation. Nice.

Years back, all-star managers always kept a couple of pitchers available for extra innings. Most of the time, they didn't get into the game, but everyone understood that there had to be insurance for extra innings. You have seen what happens now with the "need" to get everyone into the game.

Would you rather see a pitcher or two not get an appearance or tied all-star games? I, for one, want to see the game end.

Another public relations nightmare for Selig and MLB.

doublem23
07-10-2002, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
However, I guess I see the All-Star game as more than exhibition.

But that's the problem.. IT IS! I for one, would be much more pissed off if Buehrle had to pitch 7 innings or so and had to miss his start on Thursday to win the All-Star Game than I am because they called the game.

I'm sorry, but Bud Selig was 100% right in his decision. Now, no MVP, that's uh, just weird (to put it nicely).

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2002, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
But that's the problem.. IT IS! I for one, would be much more pissed off if Buehrle had to pitch 7 innings or so and had to miss his start on Thursday to win the All-Star Game than I am because they called the game.

I'm sorry, but Bud Selig was 100% right in his decision. Now, no MVP, that's uh, just weird (to put it nicely). The decision shouldn't have had to be made. Keep a couple of pitchers available for extra innings.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


But that's the problem.. IT IS! I for one, would be much more pissed off if Buehrle had to pitch 7 innings or so and had to miss his start on Thursday to win the All-Star Game than I am because they called the game.

I'm sorry, but Bud Selig was 100% right in his decision. Now, no MVP, that's uh, just weird (to put it nicely).

Aggreed.

KempersRS
07-10-2002, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Omigod; end the game by playing homerun derby. I can't believe someone even suggested this. Take pitching and defense totally out of the final equation. Nice.


WHO CARES

Let the damn fans enjoy themselves. I knew the old timers would bitch about this idea cause they always wanna preserve the game and such, but honestly no one cares. It's suppose to be for fun and a 3-day even for the fans so why not give them something they will enjoy? I don't wanna disrupt the baseball gods oh no...

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
The decision shouldn't have had to be made. Keep a couple of pitchers available for extra innings.

It's still not fool-proof. How many pitchers do you keep back? 2? 3? What if all the pitchers you kept back all pitch 3 innings and it's still tied? It's highly unlikely but could still happen. (Obviously tonight proves that. First time in seventy something tries?)

Baseball is the one major sport with no time clock.

doublem23
07-10-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
The decision shouldn't have had to be made. Keep a couple of pitchers available for extra innings.

Hindsight is 20/20, Nellie.

I'd also be pretty upset if Buehrle just didn't get a chance to pitch because Torre was making sure, that just in case the game defies the odds and goes into extra innings.

And what happens if, and this is getting rare, but realistic, the game goes to like 15 and there's still no winners? Does dragging it out longer really fix the situation, anyways?

Tavarin
07-10-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
The decision shouldn't have had to be made. Keep a couple of pitchers available for extra innings.

That is absolutely true, I mean on ESPN during their pre-All Star Game coverage, they said maybe a half a dozen times that managers would have to be careful that in close games they dont use all their players in case it goes into extra innings. But, of course Torre and Brenly used them all too fast.

Plain and simple, the rosters should be expanded and we wont have a situation like this.

Also, this can all be linked back to Torii Hunter making that catch of Bonds homer in the 1st. Damn Twinkies! :)

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2002, 01:31 AM
Let's settle it with a pepper game, the team that fields the most balls in a row without an error wins. Makes just as much sense.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2002, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by danman31
Ok, put yourself in the shoes of someone who is selected to the all-star team. Honestly tell me you don't want to play. It's tough to do. Glavine and Randy Johnson are vets and have been in all-star games before. The players don't go to the game just to be spectators.

I would understand if you don't like it if I call your post idiodic, but how does it "discredit my post in the opposition?"

I don't understand your point about Johnson or Glavine. Neither is there, and Johnson would have started had he been there. I guess the real problem is that the NL had only 3 starting pitchers on the roster. The AL had 5, but only let Zito pitch one batter, and used two relievers in one inning.

OK, would I like I play? Sure, but whatever happened to, "it's an honor to be nominated," to borrow from the Academy Awards? You have been recognized as one of the best. Just like a real game, most of the time, a manager doesn't play all 25 guys each game. It is a game, just like any other in my opinion.

Because right off the bat, you are showing that you don't want to discuss the matter on the level. Most other people get by without belittling people. You should learn to the same.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 01:33 AM
Really. If you argue that pitchers shouldn't go more than a couple innings because it's an exhibition, then you are arguing that it's meaningless. So who cares how it ends. If the people wanted to see a homer contest or whatever then give it to them. That's the problem, you people say it's about the fans then you get all huffy about the integrity of the game etc when really the game has no integrity left. "Baseball purists" and their arrogance make me sick.

Baseball craps the bed again.

KempersRS
07-10-2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Let's settle it with a pepper game, the team that fields the most balls in a row without an error wins. Makes just as much sense.

Oh is it? Wait, you are wrong...It's about giving the fans what they WANT TO SEE. National past time my ass.

Jerry_Manuel
07-10-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by Spiff
"Baseball purists" and their arrogance make me sick.

Baseball craps the bed again.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/27/ret.jackson.cnna/story.jesse.jackson.jpg
Amen!

doublem23
07-10-2002, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by KempersRS


Oh is it? Wait, you are wrong...It's about giving the fans what they WANT TO SEE. National past time my ass.

Damn, if we just wanted to give the fans what they wanted to see, let's just have 18 hot, naked ladies play the game.

Wait, that's actually a good idea. :D:

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2002, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by KempersRS
National past time my ass. Yes, I guess the game as I know it is "past [its] time." The final deciding homerun derby should include blasting heavy metal rock music, fireworks going off while the ball is in the air, and maybe Vince McMahon calling the action.


Then I can find something else to be my "passtime."

Spiff
07-10-2002, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Yes, I guess the game as I know it is "past [its] time." The final deciding homerun derby should include blasting heavy metal rock music, fireworks going off while the ball is in the air, and maybe Vince McMahon calling the action.


Then I can find something else to be my "passtime."

Sounds good to me!

Daver
07-10-2002, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Yes, I guess the game as I know it is "past [its] time." The final deciding homerun derby should include blasting heavy metal rock music, fireworks going off while the ball is in the air, and maybe Vince McMahon calling the action.


Then I can find something else to be my "passtime."

The FLW Tour is looking for a few good fans Nellie.

Bass fishing at it's finest.

KempersRS
07-10-2002, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Yes, I guess the game as I know it is "past [its] time." The final deciding homerun derby should include blasting heavy metal rock music, fireworks going off while the ball is in the air, and maybe Vince McMahon calling the action.


I don't recall saying "MAKE IT FLAMBOYANT AND STUPID". You are just cranky cause baseball sucks and it's corrupt and you knew about the "good ole days". Get used to it old man.

ISUSoxfan
07-10-2002, 03:52 AM
I don't even know where to start. Everyone jumps on Nellie for being a baseball fan on a baseball fan message board. You people have been listening to Reinsdork too much and have learned to blame the fans for everything just like he does.

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 06:57 AM
Expand the pitching roster by 5, explain to the fans and players that these 5 are only to be used in extra inning games. This way there's no hard feeling if they don't play.

oldcomiskey
07-10-2002, 07:22 AM
dont worry fox-----hawk to the rescue--now theres a switch a hawk protecting a fox----

Nellie is absolutley right-------about one thing----it is a baeball game-------when was it --64 that it went 15 innings and Tony Perez homered to win it........while I see the point you cant have players getting hurt ---wouod it make any difference if Torii Hunter got hurt on the catch or say a pitcher got hurt in the 14th---not much..

Leave nellie alone----Hes forgotten more baseball then we will probably ever remember or want to for that matter

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:05 AM
Does anybody want to see players getting hurt? - No. But that can't be the primary focus of the event, or you may as well just cancel the whole thing.

I have hated the All-Star Game for quite some time now - but last night's sets the bar even higher than it had been for stupidity - on everyone's part.

Arch Ward is rolling over in his grave.

If you don't know who Arch Ward is - well then I don't expect you'll agree with any of my posts concerning last night's debacle.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
I don't even know where to start. Everyone jumps on Nellie for being a baseball fan on a baseball fan message board. You people have been listening to Reinsdork too much and have learned to blame the fans for everything just like he does.

Who is blaming the fans?

My point is; if you argue that the game is meaningless and therefore the pitchers shouldn't risk injury, why not have a HR derby or something at the end just to give the fans a show?

You can't have it both ways, saying it's not a real game and then saying it has to end like every other baseball game.

LongDistanceFan
07-10-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
I don't even know where to start. Everyone jumps on Nellie for being a baseball fan on a baseball fan message board. its not that he is a fan, i think, imo, at times he comes across as a very condescending poster. i too would've jump on that remark, but i thought the better of it, b/c it was too tempting.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:24 AM
At what point did the All Star Game evolve into "not a real game"? It never did with me, and that's why I'm so disgusted with the MTV approach that it's taken in the past twenty years of so.

The only reason these players have anybody watching them is because they play baseball - and play it well. If you're going to group the lot of them together and then have them half-heartedly play some weird sort of exhibition you're taking them out of their element and making the event entirely unwatchable.

Is it my problem (or that of Nellie or Old Comiskey) that I remember The Old Days? Hell no - because I at least have the memories and the knowledge of what baseball was like when the players actually played for more than their checks.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
At what point did the All Star Game evolve into "not a real game"? It never did with me, and that's why I'm so disgusted with the MTV approach that it's taken in the past twenty years of so.

The only reason these players have anybody watching them is because they play baseball - and play it well. If you're going to group the lot of them together and then have them half-heartedly play some weird sort of exhibition you're taking them out of their element and making the event entirely unwatchable.

Is it my problem (or that of Nellie or Old Comiskey) that I remember The Old Days? Hell no - because I at least have the memories and the knowledge of what baseball was like when the players actually played for more than their checks.

Yeah. Hunter, Vidro, Giambi, Konerko, Miller, Berkman, Bonds, they were totally not trying....

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:31 AM
Yeah - You're right. They were totally into the game. Barry Bonds screws around with Torii Hunter in between innings - showing that he really really really cares if the NL wins or not. And then all the players with their kids running around the field and dugouts - You're right Spiff I think that adds to their concentration and should be incorporated in the regular season as well. Oh and the players catching flights home while the game is still going on - I never knew that could actually cause players to try harder.

I think you're mistaking "great athleticism" with "trying".

LongDistanceFan
07-10-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes


Hell no - because I at least have the memories and the knowledge of what baseball was like when the players actually played for more than their checks.
that is a good point, but today the coaches and staff did not plan for extra innings... so when the pen is used up, what to do? i remember a all-star game in the 70's when the pit was used for something like 5 or 6 innings. this put the pitcher's team in a pos to revamp the pit schedule for the better part of the second half. that team make it known of their displeasure.

but a game played and fought to a tie is a game worth remember as the game that didn't have a winner.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:37 AM
There is no doubt that this game will be remembered - like the Lusitania is remembered.

I guess you and I see it differently LDF. You say a game fought to a tie is as worth remembering as a game that has a winner - in hockey that's true. I just didn't see anyone "fighting" out there last night.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Yeah - You're right. They were totally into the game. Barry Bonds screws around with Torii Hunter in between innings - showing that he really really really cares if the NL wins or not. And then all the players with their kids running around the field and dugouts - You're right Spiff I think that adds to their concentration and should be incorporated in the regular season as well. Oh and the players catching flights home while the game is still going on - I never knew that could actually cause players to try harder.

I think you're mistaking "great athleticism" with "trying".

Yeah I'd much rather have Bonds get all pissed off, that's how real players do it. OH WAIT people would have gotten on him for that. "Lighten up, Barry," they'd say. Get off it.

And yeah I mean kids don't belong anywhere near a baseball field. What the hell were they thinking, letting them meet some of their heroes? This game is serious!

You can play to win and have fun at the same time.




Now tell me about when you used to walk to school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways...

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:46 AM
Eating Celery Raw
Strengthens the Jaw
But Celery Stewed
Is More Quietly Chewed

That about sums it up Spiff. Your attitude and your ignorance of what I'm speaking of requires that I no longer waste my time on this thread.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
because I at least have the memories and the knowledge of what baseball was like when the players actually played for more than their checks.

Quote of the day right there. The all-mighty dollar runs everything anymore. That's why bullpen pitchers have specific jobs. They never used to have closers or long and short releivers. They didn't have batting helmets or gloves for that matter either. Back then, pitchers would throw until their arms fell off. Now it's trying to extend your career as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Some people don't like it but that's just the way it is.

KempersRS
07-10-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


Quote of the day right there. The all-mighty dollar runs everything anymore. That's why bullpen pitchers have specific jobs. They never used to have closers or long and short releivers. They didn't have batting helmets or gloves for that matter either. Back then, pitchers would throw until their arms fell off. Now it's trying to extend your career as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Some people don't like it but that's just the way it is.

Or maybe they just don't like crippling arm injuries :?:

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Eating Celery Raw
Strengthens the Jaw
But Celery Stewed
Is More Quietly Chewed

That about sums it up Spiff. Your attitude and your ignorance of what I'm speaking of requires that I no longer waste my time on this thread.

I understand your point but it's the fact that it's no longer relevant in today's game. People got upset because they remember the way the game used to be played. Well it's not played that way anymore and probably won't be ever again.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Eating Celery Raw
Strengthens the Jaw
But Celery Stewed
Is More Quietly Chewed

That about sums it up Spiff. Your attitude and your ignorance of what I'm speaking of requires that I no longer waste my time on this thread.

Yes pardon me and my ignorance of Ogden Nash and his insightful celery quotes.


Originally posted by Iwritecode


Quote of the day right there. The all-mighty dollar runs everything anymore. That's why bullpen pitchers have specific jobs. They never used to have closers or long and short releivers. They didn't have batting helmets or gloves for that matter either. Back then, pitchers would throw until their arms fell off. Now it's trying to extend your career as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Some people don't like it but that's just the way it is.

What is wrong with wanting to extend your career? What is wrong with batting helmets? What is wrong with someone not wanting to end up like Tony C?

Jeez, it's like you're encouraging recklessness.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by KempersRS
Or maybe they just don't like crippling arm injuries :?:

Yes, that too. People are citing examples of how pitchers used to throw more innings in the AS game many years ago. For better or for worse the game has changed since then. Last night's tie was a result of that. That's just the way it's done anymore. I say either accept it or don't watch it.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 11:59 AM
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Lefty Grove
Ed Walsh
Ed Cicotte
Rube Waddell
Mordecai Brown
Bob Gibson
Lew Burdette
Warren Spahn
Bob Feller
Fergie Jenkins

and on and on and on..............

Isn't it amazing that all these guys manged to muddle through their careers without crippling arm injuries?

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Spiff
What is wrong with wanting to extend your career? What is wrong with batting helmets? What is wrong with someone not wanting to end up like Tony C?

Jeez, it's like you're encouraging recklessness.

No, I'm more on your side. I'm against all the idiots that were booing last night because the pitchers didn't pitch more than they did. I'm all for making the game safer for the players. Others think it just makes the players bigger sissies and it's not a "manly" sport anymore...

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Lefty Grove
Ed Walsh
Ed Cicotte
Rube Waddell
Mordecai Brown
Bob Gibson
Lew Burdette
Warren Spahn
Bob Feller
Fergie Jenkins

and on and on and on..............

Isn't it amazing that all these guys manged to muddle through their careers without crippling arm injuries?

They were the lucky ones. The ones that did have arm injuries left and were never heard from agian. They didn't make very good headlines...

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 12:03 PM
Now that I think about it, maybe our very own Torn Labrum Brigade would be better off retrograding into the 1940's.

Spiff
07-10-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Lefty Grove
Ed Walsh
Ed Cicotte
Rube Waddell
Mordecai Brown
Bob Gibson
Lew Burdette
Warren Spahn
Bob Feller
Fergie Jenkins

and on and on and on..............

Isn't it amazing that all these guys manged to muddle through their careers without crippling arm injuries?

I'm happy for them, really I am.

But if pitchers can't do it nowadays then they just can't. Are you going to argue against them? What do you want, a time machine?

MarkEdward
07-10-2002, 12:04 PM
My thoughts:

1. Ending the game was a good idea. I wouldn't want Buehrle out there pitching in a (more or less) meaningless game.

2. That said, Selig, Brenly, and Torre didn't handle the situation well at all. Why talk to Bud in the middle of an inning? And then having the PA announcer announce the decision with one out in the bottom of the eleventh was just tasteless.

3. This mirrors the past decisions of MLB officials: no planning. Through the 73 years that the All Star game has been played, did anyone even think to prepare for a situation that happened last night? I guess that's hindsight, but it also shows a total lack of leadership.

4. My plan: Just play 9 innings. If there's a tie after 9, so be it. Expand rosters? People already think the AS rosters are diluted.

5. I was rooting for a tie. I just loved hearing Bud get booed in his hometown.

KempersRS
07-10-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Lefty Grove
Ed Walsh
Ed Cicotte
Rube Waddell
Mordecai Brown
Bob Gibson
Lew Burdette
Warren Spahn
Bob Feller
Fergie Jenkins

and on and on and on..............

Isn't it amazing that all these guys manged to muddle through their careers without crippling arm injuries?

The human body was NOT designed to throw a baseball at 90+ mph. It RUINS YOUR ARM. I dunno how else to explain that one to you.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 12:09 PM
I am honestly trying to think of great pitchers in the past whose careers ended prematurely due to arm injuries.

Smokey Joe Wood on Boston.
Dizzy Dean - but it was caused by a broken toe.
Sandy Koufax - hereditary arthritis.

Now did some guys blow their arms out early in their career (David Clyde comes to mind) - Sure. That's the same thing happens all the time today. There were very few established pitchers who were ruined by overpitching.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I am honestly trying to think of great pitchers in the past whose careers ended prematurely due to arm injuries.

Smokey Joe Wood on Boston.
Dizzy Dean - but it was caused by a broken toe.
Sandy Koufax - hereditary arthritis.

Now did some guys blow their arms out early in their career (David Clyde comes to mind) - Sure. That's the same thing happens all the time today. There were very few established pitchers who were ruined by overpitching.

Jim Parque
Mike Sirotka
Jon Rauch
Lorenzo Barcelo
Kelly Wunsch

If any of these guys had been pitching in the 40's they would have never made it past their injuries. They just didn't have the medical technology back then. Plus, you never would have heard about them. They probably would have just drifted quitely away. That's probably why you can't think of any now. Their careers were over before they began...

Daver
07-10-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


Jim Parque
Mike Sirotka
Jon Rauch
Lorenzo Barcelo
Kelly Wunsch

If any of these guys had been pitching in the 40's they would have never made it past their injuries. They just didn't have the medical technology back then. Plus, you never would have heard about them. They probably would have just drifted quitely away. That's probably why you can't think of any now. Their careers were over before they began...

No,pitchers get injured more these days because they DON'T PITCH enough.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2002, 12:29 PM
Maybe the best solution for the game last night....

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/johnson/020710.html

The reason the tie game has gotten to people is the fact that the game of baseball has taken pride in the fact that there is no clock. There are no ties, the game ends when one team beats another. This isn't football, basketball, hockey or soccer, this is baseball.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by daver
No,pitchers get injured more these days because they DON'T PITCH enough.

Interesting theory, but there is a very fine line between pitching a lot and building up good arm strength and pitching a lot and blowing your arm out. Players today just don't come as close to that line as they used to.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Maybe the best solution for the game last night....

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/johnson/020710.html

The reason the tie game has gotten to people is the fact that the game of baseball has taken pride in the fact that there is no clock. There are no ties, the game ends when one team beats another. This isn't football, basketball, hockey or soccer, this is baseball.

OK, I vote that next year before the AS game starts, the score should be tied... Now, should it be 0-0 or 7-7?

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by daver


No,pitchers get injured more these days because they DON'T PITCH enough.

I agree, it's also the thought of J Kaat who also believes they don't run enough for leg strength. They tire from pushing off the mound and then over compensate by using the shoulder and arm to maintain speed on their pitches.
I think L Mazzoni in Atlanta is a big advocate of pitchers throwing on their off days.

keywestwillie
07-10-2002, 01:27 PM
Joe Torre and Bob Brenly
Bullpen catchers
Two fans from the stands
Bernie Brewer
Bud Selig and his daughter, Wendy
Listed above are names of people who could have - and should have - pitched the 12th inning and beyond of the All-Star Game.
Sure it would have been like Home Run Derby, but the fans would have loved it and it would have provided a conclusion to the game, with one team a winner and one team a loser.
And Paul Konerko may have won the MVP award.
Better yet, Robin Yount was back in Milwaukee, as a coach for the American League. Let him stroll out to the mound and pitch for both sides. I guarantee the fans would have blown the roof off Miller Park if Robin had been come out to pitch.

Bucktown
07-10-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
It would looks worse if a pitcher got hurt because he had to go extra.
Bull****. That is the risk. Why risk injury in the first 11 innings and not the 12th?

Pete Rose played to win, these guys play to line their pockets. They don't care about the fans. If I was on that field you would have had to drag me away to get me to leave without completing the game.

LongDistanceFan
07-10-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I am honestly trying to think of great pitchers in the past whose careers ended prematurely due to arm injuries.


Dizzy Dean - but it was caused by a broken toe.
i read his auto-bio and he point blank said that his pitching or his enthusiasm of pit blew out his arm. he wrote that he would pit a game and then go and play a semi pro game.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:16 PM
You may very well be right about Dizzy Dean, but the old conventional wisdom was that he tried to pitch through an injury he picked up after getting hit on the toe with a liner at the All Star Game.

It used to be that baseball's All Star game was the only one worth watching. Basketball and hockey were nothing but offensive exhibitions, and football was little more than a walk through (although some of the College All Star Games at Soldier Field were fun to watch until they too were cancelled due to fear of injury). It seems as though baseball has joined the ranks of the other major sports now and that's too bad.

Cheryl
07-10-2002, 03:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/minorlbb/s/2002/0710/1404146.html

Nellie_Fox
07-11-2002, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
its not that he is a fan, i think, imo, at times he comes across as a very condescending poster. i too would've jump on that remark, but i thought the better of it, b/c it was too tempting. Maybe you don't like the way I come across sometimes, LDF, but you will notice I never call anyone names. I address what they said, I don't address who they are.

By the way, at least my profile is filled out so when I say something, people know who I am and how to contact me. It's real easy to criticize from a position of anonymity.

Daver
07-11-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Maybe you don't like the way I come across sometimes, LDF, but you will notice I never call anyone names. I address what they said, I don't address who they are.

By the way, at least my profile is filled out so when I say something, people know who I am and how to contact me. It's real easy to criticize from a position of anonymity.

Well said Nellie.

LongDistanceFan
07-11-2002, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Maybe you don't like the way I come across sometimes, LDF, but you will notice I never call anyone names. I address what they said, I don't address who they are.

if someone attack another poster in a personal way by words of action of words, or an attempt of belittling then a defense is sometimes necessary.


By the way, at least my profile is filled out so when I say something, people know who I am and how to contact me. It's real easy to criticize from a position of anonymity. why is it necessary for the profile, anyone could make up a bunch of crap, its what they write here is how they should be taken. we are not going to send each other christmas cards or any other invitation. now are we? so why do you need to send me anything.


Daver, i never thought we had a problem?

Spiff
07-11-2002, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Maybe you don't like the way I come across sometimes, LDF, but you will notice I never call anyone names. I address what they said, I don't address who they are.

By the way, at least my profile is filled out so when I say something, people know who I am and how to contact me. It's real easy to criticize from a position of anonymity.

Ohhhh you were born in Berwyn, now it all makes sense...