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View Full Version : *Official* 6-20 No Floyd, No Offense Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 10:55 PM
Typical 2011 Sox game.:angry:

Domeshot17
06-20-2011, 10:55 PM
Floyd was terrible, no clutch hitting, Sox go scoreless for 8 straight innings. Maybe we won't start the B team tomorrow.

Soxfest
06-20-2011, 10:56 PM
Sox lay down for everyone.............NO heart...........NO balls!:angry:

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 10:56 PM
We had no business losing to this Cub team tonight. If this does not convince the front office that change is needed, nothing will.

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2011, 10:56 PM
Greg Walker is loyal and works hard. He has a job for life.

PalehosePlanet
06-20-2011, 10:56 PM
You forgot No Managing in the thread title.

sox230
06-20-2011, 10:56 PM
Typical 2011 Sox game.:angry:

Typical 2006-2011 Sox game. NO reason in the world to have Pierre represent the tying. Wonder what Dayan could have done?

Shoeless_Jeff
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
:anon:

Mohoney
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Why in the world would you let Juan Pierre hit there with 2 outs in the 9th, down by 3 runs? Your only hope is for somebody to hit a 3 run homer.

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Teahen is worthless. So is Pierre.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Greg Walker is loyal and works hard. He has a job for life.

Nice to have a job where accountability never comes into the equation.

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
silly me.....got excited by another good start vs Big Z.....

beat my points to death in the game thread....this one really speaks for itself.

Go Cubs Go.......

thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Floyd was terrible, no clutch hitting, Sox go scoreless for 8 straight innings. Maybe we won't start the B team tomorrow.
Sadly, this WAS the A team minus Beckham and Morel.

Soxfest
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Typical 2006-2011 Sox game. NO reason in the world to have Pierre represent the tying. Wonder what Dayan could have done?
100% correct:angry:

cleanwsox
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
When will this team win a game against a rival team? Thanks for beating the A's and Diamondbacks though.

Tragg
06-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Pitiful. And not one decent bat on the bench who could pinch hit for the woeful Pierre, although pretty much anyone would have been a better choice (but Ozzie's ego comes first, as always).

AnkleSox
06-20-2011, 10:58 PM
Congratulations to the Cubs on their World Series game 1 victory.

JB98
06-20-2011, 10:58 PM
Typical White Sox bull****.

Floyd was terrible. The manager left him in two hitters too long. The offense shut down after a good first inning. After they blew that chance in the fifth inning, you just knew they were done scoring.

Teabag got a hanger from Marmol in the ninth. He should have hit that pitch over the bullpen sports bar. Denied.

Cubs took advantage of Floyd's ****ty pitches. Our hitters let Cubbie pitchers get away with ****ty pitches.

WhiteSox56
06-20-2011, 10:58 PM
Really just a ****ty performance up and down from players to managing for the Sox. Why are things not changing on the south side? Who's got their *&#$ in their hand and won't make some moves? When is enough, well, enough!! CHANGE!

Crooked Number
06-20-2011, 10:58 PM
The lack of pinch hitting in the 9th for Pierre was lying down if ive ever seen it. Why? Why wouldnt you put someone in there for him who has some pop?

Ozzies ejection pedestrian. Kicking the mask was fun to see though. Paulie once again with no help. Gavin was horrific. Pitiful.

JB98
06-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Pitiful. And not one decent bat on the bench who could pinch hit for the woeful Pierre.

We could have had Babe Ruth on the bench and Pierre still would not have been lifted. You know this.

HaroMaster87
06-20-2011, 10:59 PM
how the **** does ozzie rationalize starting that horrendous line-up???

Fire this idiot already kenny...geez

I hope the sox get swept

BringHomeDaBacon
06-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Absolute perfect example of why it's god damn stupid to have Pierre and Vizquel hitting 1/2 in the lineup. Getting to the top of the lineup shouldn't be a rally killer.

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
Teahen is worthless. So is Pierre.

so is Rios....so is Dunn (big time).....so is Ozzie (big time)

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
When will this team win a game against a rival team? Thanks for beating the A's and Diamondbacks though.

Actually, we have been beating the Cubs recently in spite of tonight's loss.

Mohoney
06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
Pitiful. And not one decent bat on the bench who could pinch hit for the woeful Pierre, although pretty much anyone would have been a better choice (but Ozzie's ego comes first, as always).

Actually, this time you can't blame Ozzie. He was tossed arguing the tag out of Alexei on that missed foul ball call.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
Why in the world would you let Juan Pierre hit there with 2 outs in the 9th, down by 3 runs? Your only hope is for somebody to hit a 3 run homer.

Because the people that run this team on the field absolutely suck at their jobs.

No reason for Lillibridge or even Beckham to not be hitting, but this team adores its lefty/righty matchups, so we live and (almost always) die by that.

thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 11:02 PM
No reason for Lillibridge or even Beckham to not be hitting, but this team adores its lefty/righty matchups, so we live and (almost always) die by that.
dan_bernstein (http://twitter.com/#%21/dan_bernstein) Dan Bernstein

I'm a little surprised @BSLillibridge (http://twitter.com/BSLillibridge) did not PH for Pierre. Actually, I'm kinda mad. No, now I'm outraged, just in time for bed. Damn.

SoxSpeed22
06-20-2011, 11:04 PM
uuuuggggggghhhhhhh. Floyd was not good, and we make Zambrano look awesome. We also played a pretty ****ty game. Not much else.

thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 11:05 PM
Actually, we have been beating the Cubs recently in spite of tonight's loss.
Is that an oxymoron?

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 11:05 PM
We could have had Babe Ruth on the bench and Pierre still would not have been lifted. You know this.


why start managing in the 9th? handnt really managed any other aspect of the game to that point?

man.....what a pointless endeavor the 2011 White Sox season has been. Dreadful

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:05 PM
More fans will start wishing that Ozzie takes his talents to South Beach.

DSpivack
06-20-2011, 11:06 PM
how the **** does ozzie rationalize starting that horrendous line-up???

Fire this idiot already kenny...geez

I hope the sox get swept

You think KW has the power to fire Ozzie?

chaotic8512
06-20-2011, 11:06 PM
XhI0OVs_zj0

Is there a Ralph's around here?

thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 11:06 PM
You think KW has the power to fire Ozzie?
The power, yes. The willingness, hell no.

soxnut1018
06-20-2011, 11:06 PM
When will this team win a game against a rival team? Thanks for beating the A's and Diamondbacks though.

I really doubt the Sox players consider the Cubs rivals.

guillensdisciple
06-20-2011, 11:06 PM
But but but but we have reason to bullieve because we won the last two games. But but but we should not be impatient because it is a 162 game season.

For sure, realism is not appropriate.

Tragg
06-20-2011, 11:07 PM
Actually, this time you can't blame Ozzie. He was tossed arguing the tag out of Alexei on that missed foul ball call.

And we certainly can't expect chief yes-man Cora to make an independent decision.
Sidenote: the notion that any ML team is going to hire Cora as manager is funny.....any ML team except one that is.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:07 PM
You think KW has the power to fire Ozzie?

:reinsy
No.

soxfan1965
06-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Dunn is on track with 3 tonight to get the major league strikeout record, with an average of two per game to go. Dunn seems to be crouching a bit lower to keep the K's down but not tonight. At least the Sox may have another all-time record in the books. Floyd was obviously stuggling but he gets lifted after the 3 run home run, go figure.

1989
06-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Losing to an NL team that's not the Phillies = unacceptable.

JB98
06-20-2011, 11:09 PM
The power, yes. The willingness, hell no.

I feel the opposite is true. He has the willingness, but not the power.

Tragg
06-20-2011, 11:10 PM
I feel the opposite is true. He has the willingness, but not the power.

He's the architect of this train-wreck. He should go as much as Guillen.

WhiteSox56
06-20-2011, 11:10 PM
I feel the opposite is true. He has the willingness, but not the power.

I agree.

And JR can't let go of Ozzie, the reason I haven't a clue.

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Teahen is worthless. So is Pierre.
Viciedo had two more hits today yet he wastes away in AAA because our manager can't figure out a way to get him ABs.

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 11:13 PM
I feel the opposite is true. He has the willingness, but not the power.


guessing KW would LOVE to be rid of Ozzie and his clan........

but alas he is here now, and more than likely next as well. hopefully some truth to rumor about him going to Marlins

JB98
06-20-2011, 11:13 PM
Viciedo had two more hits today yet he wastes away in AAA because our manager can't figure out a way to get him ABs.

I hear we have an opening at DH, for those who are worried about Viciedo's glove.

Crooked Number
06-20-2011, 11:14 PM
After the initial emotional outburst, I have some thoughts. Sweeps are a rarity in these crosstown sets, in fact the double sweep on '08 by both away teams are the exceptions (for the most part). Imperative to take the next two, win the series. Then take two of three from these triple a buffons at their place.

This is a tough one, but Gavin had spectacular interleague numbers coming in. He was "due" for bad one. I have confidence that this maddening Sox team will take care of these lesser pitchers tomorrow and wednesday. We will see...

TDog
06-20-2011, 11:14 PM
Floyd was terrible, no clutch hitting, Sox go scoreless for 8 straight innings. Maybe we won't start the B team tomorrow.


The hitting wasn't the issue. Both the White Sox and Cubs had just two hits with runners in scoring position tonight. But Floyd simply didn't pitch well tonight. Zambrano recovered and pitched very well. The turning point of the game was striking out Konerko with two when the Sox had a one-run lead. Konerko came into the game hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position and .400 with a runner on third and two out. After Zambrano struck out Konerko, the Sox immediately lost the lead and spent the rest of the game down by three runs.

The White Sox, actually most teams, but it applies more with the White Sox than with most teams, are only as good as their starting pitching. If the White Sox had tonight's starting pitching Sunday in Phoenix, they would have lost. They wouldn't have been in position to score their eight runs. Tonight, if Floyd holds the Cubs for another inning -- judging from the number of pitches out of the strike zone he was throwing, it probably would have been his last -- the Sox would have been in position to score more runs.

Sure it was a frustrating game. But Floyd had absolutely nothing to get out hitters the third time through the order, and that was the difference in the game.

Soxman219
06-20-2011, 11:15 PM
I didn't watch the game, I've decided not to watch Sox games since the Twins swept the Sox last week. A friend of mine texted: CUBBIES WOOOOO!!!!! I texted back: 103!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry.

I see PK is carrying this team though, like I said if the Sox can get hot he can be MVP. Sadly, I don't think this organization has a clue.

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:18 PM
I hear we have an opening at DH, for those who are worried about Viciedo's glove.
We have a DH??? Oh yeah, now I remember...I think his name is Adam Done.

34rancher
06-20-2011, 11:19 PM
Send Dunn to minors for Viciendo. It cannot be worse. I honestly think I could put more wood on the ball than he does.

soltrain21
06-20-2011, 11:20 PM
We have a DH??? Oh yeah, now I remember...I think his name is Adam Done.

Holy crap is that Done=Dunn and the opposite the worst joke here.

guillensdisciple
06-20-2011, 11:21 PM
Props to Cubs fans for not spamming the site with guests the way Twins fans do after they beat us.

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:21 PM
Holy crap is that Done=Dunn and vise versa the worst joke here.
It's funny 'cause it's true.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:21 PM
How tall is Dave Otto? He's taller than Frank!

tstrike2000
06-20-2011, 11:22 PM
We stinks.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2011, 11:22 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

Moving on to other things.....:rolleyes:

The Sox need to consider dealing Floyd. I thought after 2008 he'd turned the corner but that's apparently not the case. He's inconsistent at best, will look great for a month or six weeks but otherwise....pffffth.

Another bad outing at home (I recall some fans saying that playing all these home games was going to make the difference.) So far they haven't.

Sox get three in the first then go to sleep the rest of the night. Not exactly typical but we've seen this tendency before.

Like I said, the Sox apparently decided to tease us yet again over the weekend. They simply can not put together a long winning streak because of the inconsistency in hitting and in fundamentals. Longest winning streak this season is a meager four games (and we're in the back half of June...)

Lip

WisSoxFan
06-20-2011, 11:25 PM
I would almost rather re-watch the final episode of "The Killing" than this Sox team. Almost!

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:26 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

Ozzie is the problem. It appears for whatever reason that Kenny is an impotent GM.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:27 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

What? WHAT!? For God's sake we're still below .500 and Ozzie likes this team??? Does he not want to catch Cleveland and Detroit?

Lip Man 1
06-20-2011, 11:27 PM
By the way, just wondering...what's the Sox record against teams under .500 this year...has got to be dismal.

Lip

hi im skot
06-20-2011, 11:27 PM
I hope the sox get swept

Dumb.

WhiteSox56
06-20-2011, 11:28 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

Moving on to other things.....:rolleyes:

The Sox need to consider dealing Floyd. I thought after 2008 he'd turned the corner but that's apparently not the case. He's inconsistent at best, will look great for a month or six weeks but otherwise....pffffth.

Another bad outing at home (I recall some fans saying that playing all these home games was going to make the difference.) So far they haven't.

Sox get three in the first then go to sleep the rest of the night. Not exactly typical but we've seen this tendency before.

Like I said, the Sox apparently decided to tease us yet again over the weekend. They simply can not put together a long winning streak because of the inconsistency in hitting and in fundamentals. Longest winning streak this season is a meager four games (and we're in the back half of June...)

Lip


I find it hard to beleive that we can turn a corner and hit a 6,7,8 plus winning streak together. What say you? I mean we need a streak like that to even think about turning this crap around right?

mmmmmbeeer
06-20-2011, 11:29 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

Moving on to other things.....:rolleyes:

The Sox need to consider dealing Floyd. I thought after 2008 he'd turned the corner but that's apparently not the case. He's inconsistent at best, will look great for a month or six weeks but otherwise....pffffth.

Another bad outing at home (I recall some fans saying that playing all these home games was going to make the difference.) So far they haven't.

Sox get three in the first then go to sleep the rest of the night. Not exactly typical but we've seen this tendency before.

Like I said, the Sox apparently decided to tease us yet again over the weekend. They simply can not put together a long winning streak because of the inconsistency in hitting and in fundamentals. Longest winning streak this season is a meager four games (and we're in the back half of June...)

Lip

That's twice now that KW has put the whole Viciedo/Pierre thing on Ozzie's back. I don't think it can get more obvious that behind the scenes JR has Kenny handcuffed.

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:29 PM
:fireozzie:sellreinsy

JB98
06-20-2011, 11:29 PM
By the way, just wondering...what's the Sox record against teams under .500 this year...has got to be dismal.

Lip

You have questions. I have answers.

13-21.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2011, 11:31 PM
Here's the link to the story and I thought the same thing myself. Kenny appears to be throwing this into Ozzie's lap like the Thome situation:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-williams-mum-on-guillen-wants-sox-to-shore-up-weaknesses-20110620,0,883653.story

Lip

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 11:31 PM
After the initial emotional outburst, I have some thoughts. Sweeps are a rarity in these crosstown sets, in fact the double sweep on '08 by both away teams are the exceptions (for the most part). Imperative to take the next two, win the series. Then take two of three from these triple a buffons at their place.

This is a tough one, but Gavin had spectacular interleague numbers coming in. He was "due" for bad one. I have confidence that this maddening Sox team will take care of these lesser pitchers tomorrow and wednesday. We will see...

okay...guess I will agree that sweeps in the cross town are rare....but at this point I am saying so what if we win these series? I guess we can hoist the BP cup again? sure, always nice to win, always double nice to beat the flubs.....but in the end what will it accomplish for this year?

this team is never going to get back on track....it just isnt. Sure, anything can happen.....but ALL signs......ALL rational thought is saying that 82-83 wins is about the BEST we can hope for

Daver
06-20-2011, 11:32 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...


He may as well said that Dayan putting up numbers in Charlotte is worth a lot more than Dayan putting up below average numbers while standing on the warning track in Comiskey Park's left field showcasing the fact that he is only a DH.

Malgar 12
06-20-2011, 11:32 PM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...

Moving on to other things.....:rolleyes:

The Sox need to consider dealing Floyd. I thought after 2008 he'd turned the corner but that's apparently not the case. He's inconsistent at best, will look great for a month or six weeks but otherwise....pffffth.

Another bad outing at home (I recall some fans saying that playing all these home games was going to make the difference.) So far they haven't.

Sox get three in the first then go to sleep the rest of the night. Not exactly typical but we've seen this tendency before.

Like I said, the Sox apparently decided to tease us yet again over the weekend. They simply can not put together a long winning streak because of the inconsistency in hitting and in fundamentals. Longest winning streak this season is a meager four games (and we're in the back half of June...)

Lip

At this point its a trend not a tease. We simply need to admit what the Sox are, a mediocre underachieving team, whose whole is less than the sum of its parts.

On a separate note, in the world of realistic deals (ie not Floyd for Lincecum) Trading Floyd would be a mistake.

Gavin
06-20-2011, 11:32 PM
I'm almost at the point where I'm not even proud to be a White Sox fan anymore. It really feels like this team is going to be in the ****ter with Ozzie grinning the whole damn time.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2011, 11:33 PM
JB:

That's disgusting, reminds me of 2006. If the Sox had some vocal leaders on the team perhaps things might be different but they don't so it's the same old **** against garbage teams.

Lip

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:33 PM
If I were KW and felt that Ozzie was undermining me to the point that the owner is on Ozzie's side, I'd quit. I am sure KW won't have a problem catching on with another ballclub.

Nelfox02
06-20-2011, 11:33 PM
I find it hard to beleive that we can turn a corner and hit a 6,7,8 plus winning streak together. What say you? I mean we need a streak like that to even think about turning this crap around right?

6-8 game winning streak? there is nothing you can point to so far this season to form an argument this team can do that.....absolutely nothing.

MetroPD
06-20-2011, 11:34 PM
We have a problem with out outfield. Defensively they're no that good and offensively they're even worse. Time to start moving players around. Good thing we kept Pauly this year.

tstrike2000
06-20-2011, 11:34 PM
What? WHAT!? For God's sake we're still below .500 and Ozzie likes this team??? Does he not want to catch Cleveland and Detroit?

We have to actually beat Detroit and Minnesota first. If not...game, set, match. Instead we watch a slow ass like Cuddyer run the bases like Ricky Henderson in his prime while the Sox have their thumb up their proverbial asses.

Soxfest
06-20-2011, 11:34 PM
Viciedo had two more hits today yet he wastes away in AAA because our manager can't figure out a way to get him ABs.
GM has the same opinion .............both can go!

TheOldRoman
06-20-2011, 11:35 PM
:sellreinsy
I know. That sucks how he was all like "I'm going to spend $127 mil on payroll this year," and then he was all like, "sure, we were 17th in attendance last year, but let's make our payroll 5th in baseball this year." What a ****ing douche.

Noneck
06-20-2011, 11:42 PM
Viciedo, Viciedo, I see him in every thread. The only way he comes up is with an injury, to Dunn, Quentin, Pierre or Rios. At the money Dunns locked into, no way Viciedo takes his spot. Lillibridge has earned a starting OF spot more than Viciedo has, so what does that leave for Viciedo? A spot player? Let the guy either learn to play the game in the minors or let him keep putting up inflated band box #s so maybe he can be packaged with Dunn or Rios to dump some salary for next year.

thomas35forever
06-20-2011, 11:43 PM
KW really needs to grow a pair and tell Ozzie he'll manage the team he constructs for him. The manager should not be telling the GM how to do his job. Both of them are there to do the jobs they're assigned to do. They shouldn't be butting into each other's business. One of them has to go. There's too much ego in this organization.

PalehosePlanet
06-20-2011, 11:48 PM
KW really needs to grow a pair and tell Ozzie he'll manage the team he constructs for him. The manager should not be telling the GM how to do his job. Both of them are there to do the jobs they're assigned to do. They shouldn't be butting into each other's business. One of them has to go. There's too much ego in this organization.

I get the feeling that Ozzie would win any power struggle w/KW because he's closer to JR.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:48 PM
KW really needs to grow a pair and tell Ozzie he'll manage the team he constructs for him. The manager should not be telling the GM how to do his job. Both of them are there to do the jobs they're assigned to do. They shouldn't be butting into each other's business. One of them has to go. There's too much ego in this organization.

It eventually may be Ozzie. Fenway posted this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2775854&postcount=23) in the WTS Ozzie-Marlins thread.

DickAllen72
06-20-2011, 11:48 PM
I know. That sucks how he was all like "I'm going to spend $127 mil on payroll this year," and then he was all like, "sure, we were 17th in attendance last year, but let's make our payroll 5th in baseball this year." What a ****ing douche.
It sucks how he only hires cronies and yes men and runs his organization in an ineffective manner. He has plenty of money to spend since he paid so little for the team some 30 or so years ago. Who cares how much he spends when he spends so inefficiently?

His manager is an embarassment who repeatedly belittles and insults White Sox fans, his paying customers, yet he allows it to continue.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2011, 11:50 PM
TStrike 2000:

And remember Ozzie's "insightful" analysis..."there's nothing you can do..." :rolleyes:

Lip

JermaineDye05
06-20-2011, 11:50 PM
Viciedo is absolutely tearing it up against AAA teams right now.

If ever there was a time to get his feet wet for 2011, now is the time. This Cubs team would be a perfect transition.

However, Ozzie is too loyal to Pierre.

HaroMaster87
06-20-2011, 11:51 PM
Dumb.

Dumb???

Most of us, including myself, want changes. If they continue to play .500, those changes will not happen...

Tragg
06-20-2011, 11:52 PM
Here's the link to the story and I thought the same thing myself. Kenny appears to be throwing this into Ozzie's lap like the Thome situation:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-williams-mum-on-guillen-wants-sox-to-shore-up-weaknesses-20110620,0,883653.story

Lip
Then that's a weakness of the GM. No room for Thome, so he spends 36 mill (or whatever) on Dunn 1 year later? That's no leadership.

JermaineDye05
06-20-2011, 11:54 PM
XhI0OVs_zj0

Is there a Ralph's around here?

I was thinking about bringing this back the other day.

Thank you for keeping it alive and relevant.

Viva Medias B's
06-20-2011, 11:55 PM
Listening to Ranger on the postgame, he has become so condescending.

Noneck
06-20-2011, 11:57 PM
If they continue to play .500, those changes will not happen...


They play where they are never in the hunt, changes most definitely will occur. They will need an 18 wheeler to back up all the goods to be sent to market. Attendance will be hammered big time and the solution will be, dump, dump, dump.

DSpivack
06-21-2011, 12:01 AM
It sucks how he only hires cronies and yes men and runs his organization in an ineffective manner. He has plenty of money to spend since he paid so little for the team some 30 or so years ago. Who cares how much he spends when he spends so inefficiently?

His manager is an embarassment who repeatedly belittles and insults White Sox fans, his paying customers, yet he allows it to continue.

Spending inefficiently is the fault of the GM, unless you mean not spending in the draft, which is a large fault of the organization as a whole, starting with the owner.

HaroMaster87
06-21-2011, 12:01 AM
They play where they are never in the hunt, changes most definitely will occur. They will need an 18 wheeler to back up all the goods to be sent to market. Attendance will be hammered big time and the solution will be, dump, dump, dump.

god i hope so...im sooo sick of this mix of guys, they played really well one year and other than that...bad. I, for one...have had enough. Dump them all, from KW on down.

DickAllen72
06-21-2011, 12:04 AM
Spending inefficiently is the fault of the GM, unless you mean not spending in the draft, which is a large fault of the organization as a whole, starting with the owner.
Draft, scouts, experienced coaches and instructors, etc.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2011, 12:05 AM
It sucks how he only hires cronies and yes men and runs his organization in an ineffective manner. He has plenty of money to spend since he paid so little for the team some 30 or so years ago. Who cares how much he spends when he spends so inefficiently?

His manager is an embarassment who repeatedly belittles and insults White Sox fans, his paying customers, yet he allows it to continue.Well, he isn't the GM. IF you want to complain that money wasn't well spent, that is a legitimate criticism. However, you can't say the money wasn't spent. JR is the owner, and at least as of late, he hasn't been meddling in baseball affairs. He hires baseball people (front office) to handle that. We know if the issues between Kenny and Ozzie, but at least publicly, KW has said that he never wanted to fire Ozzie. And publicly, JR said last year that if KW were to ever ask to fire Ozzie, he would side with Kenny.

chaotic8512
06-21-2011, 12:06 AM
I was thinking about bringing this back the other day.

Thank you for keeping it alive and relevant.

Happy to oblige...

JUST 'CAUSE WE'RE UNDER .500 DOESN'T MAKE US SAPS!

A. Cavatica
06-21-2011, 12:07 AM
Is that an oxymoron?

He's not a good manager, but there's no need to question his intelligence.

palehozenychicty
06-21-2011, 12:07 AM
It sucks how he only hires cronies and yes men and runs his organization in an ineffective manner. He has plenty of money to spend since he paid so little for the team some 30 or so years ago. Who cares how much he spends when he spends so inefficiently?

His manager is an embarassment who repeatedly belittles and insults White Sox fans, his paying customers, yet he allows it to continue.

This is the thing :(:.

tstrike2000
06-21-2011, 12:08 AM
TStrike 2000:

And remember Ozzie's "insightful" analysis..."there's nothing you can do..." :rolleyes:

Lip

I don't know if I should call it a defeatist attitude, but when a slow ass from your main division rival swipes three bags in one game and that's your manager's response? It's either change your philosophy or get shown the door. Since these kinds of responses have been happening for 5 or so years a change of direction, philosophy, attitude wouldn't be a bad thing.

SoxSpeed22
06-21-2011, 12:11 AM
Listening to Ranger on the postgame, he has become so condescending.He's probably desensitized from having to spout the same things over and over again for the last 4 years.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2011, 12:13 AM
Draft, scouts, experienced coaches and instructors, etc.Jerry is a businessman, not a baseball mind. He put those decisions in the hands of baseball people. Regardless of the farm system, the franchise has been at least moderately successful this past decade, so there wasn't compelling reason to make a change. I believe that the huge share of failures of this team and the teams since 2006 is on the coaching staff. Still Kenny has allowed that staff to stay together this whole time. Also, the state of the farm system isn't acceptable. Based on how things have gone thusfar, unless this team gets its head out of its collective ass, this is going to be the year where something has to change. Too much money is going to be lost this year.

Noneck
06-21-2011, 12:17 AM
JR is the owner, and at least as of late, he hasn't been meddling in baseball affairs.

Wasnt he involved in the PK signing twice? The Junior deal? The M. Ramirez deal? The Tory Hunter almost signing deal? The Burls deal? Wasnt it talked about that he was talking to boreass when arod had an out in his contract? I think he likes everyone to think hes not involved but his thumb is always in the pie.

hi im skot
06-21-2011, 12:20 AM
Dumb???

Most of us, including myself, want changes. If they continue to play .500, those changes will not happen...

Rooting against your team is dumb.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2011, 12:25 AM
Roman:

Some points of clarification if I may.

Kenny has publicly stated to the media that the hiring and firing of coaches comes under Ozzie's jurisdiction. (now what he says about this internally is anybody's guess..)

Regarding JR and being 'hands-off' that's what I've always read but I have been told recently by a very good source that JR personally signed AJ this off season while Kenny was negotiating with Miguel Olivo. I was also told that JR is now becoming more involved in the draft from a position of who to take and how much to pay them.

Now I honestly don't know if JR keeps his hands off or not. I know he has stepped in a few time in the past regarding contracts.

Lip

Daver
06-21-2011, 12:27 AM
Wasnt he involved in the PK signing twice? The Junior deal? The M. Ramirez deal? The Tory Hunter almost signing deal? The Burls deal? Wasnt it talked about that he was talking to boreass when arod had an out in his contract? I think he likes everyone to think hes not involved but his thumb is always in the pie.

The only deals that Jerry handled that I know of in years are Frank Thomas', Frank's agent preferred to deal directly with him as they were close friends, but Jerry deferred to ken when it came time to non tender Frank. I'm sure he was consulted about money, but other than that...

Lip Man 1
06-21-2011, 12:28 AM
Noneck:

Actually JR wanted to meet with A-Rod personally and without Boras present which is what started the firestorm after A-Rod did not show up for his scheduled meeting with Kenny.

Boras found out about JR's 'request' and basically said 'not no but hell no.' Kenny then got hot and made charges to the media about Boras. It was a bad and embarrassing situation all the way around.

Lip

hi im skot
06-21-2011, 12:29 AM
This and that:

Kenny tonight is quoted in a story at the Tribune saying he appreciates what Dayan is doing in Charlotte but that Ozzie "likes the team he is running out there every day." (direct quote) And there's simply no room for him...


Gotta make room for the mighty Juan Pierre.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Wasnt he involved in the PK signing twice? The Junior deal? The M. Ramirez deal? The Tory Hunter almost signing deal? The Burls deal? Wasnt it talked about that he was talking to boreass when arod had an out in his contract? I think he likes everyone to think hes not involved but his thumb is always in the pie.Those things were all KW decisions that JR had to give financial approval to. As for A-Rod and Hunter, it is routine for owners to be involved in the sales pitch to top free agents. However, it isn't like he is calling the shots personnel-wise, going behind Kenny's back as George Steinbrenner used to, he isn't telling KW which players to go after.

Noneck
06-21-2011, 12:32 AM
Noneck:

Actually JR wanted to meet with A-Rod personally and without Borass present which is what started the firestorm after A-Rod did not show up for his scheduled meeting with Kenny.

Borass found out about JR's 'request' and basically said 'not no but hell no.' Kenny then got hot and made charges to the media about Borass. It was a bad and embarrassing situation all the way around.

Lip

Thanks for refreshing my memory on that but that is another example of Reinsdorf being directly involved or at least trying to be.

BainesHOF
06-21-2011, 12:44 AM
I'm mad and embarrassed that my team allowed Pierre to bat in the ninth needing a homer. Baseball decisions don't get much worse than that.

A.J.'s 2-1 pitch call for a fastball on Castro's two-run single with first base open was brutal. We got what we asked for there.

Is it possible Ozzie is sabatoging the team in certain areas with the knowledge that he's heading to Florida after this season?

soltrain21
06-21-2011, 12:53 AM
I'm mad and embarrassed that my team allowed Pierre to bat in the ninth needing a homer. Baseball decisions don't get much worse than that.

A.J.'s 2-1 pitch call for a fastball on Castro's two-run single with first base open was brutal. We got what we asked for there.

Is it possible Ozzie is sabatoging the team in certain areas with the knowledge that he's heading to Florida after this season?

No. That's not possible at all. He is just a bad manager.

Noneck
06-21-2011, 12:53 AM
However, it isn't like he is calling the shots personnel-wise, going behind Kenny's back as George Steinbrenner used to, he isn't telling KW which players to go after.

Who knows whats going on maybe he isnt , maybe he is, the personnel that he has hired surely wouldnt let anyone know if he is. My thinking is that a money guy always has his thumb in pie, his decision is the only one he truly trusts. We will probably never know one way or the other.

Nellie_Fox
06-21-2011, 01:00 AM
Send Dunn to minors for Viciendo. It cannot be worse. I honestly think I could put more wood on the ball than he does.


No you couldn't.
Dunn cannot be "sent to the minors."
Viciendo? You don't even know the guy's name?

thomas35forever
06-21-2011, 01:03 AM
No you couldn't.
Dunn cannot be "sent to the minors."
Viciendo? You don't even know the guy's name?


And that, my friends, is a good old-fashioned mod burn.

HaroMaster87
06-21-2011, 01:22 AM
Rooting against your team is dumb.


Your opinion...which i didnt ask for.

If they refuse to make any changes with the team playing this way, I guess its gonna take rock bottom. Which is on its way! Go Juan Pierre! Go Mark Teahen!! Go Adam Dunn!! Go Gavin Floyd!! Go Alex Rios!! Go Jake Peav...oh wait, he just pulled a hammy. DL again...

A. Cavatica
06-21-2011, 01:24 AM
Rooting against your team is dumb.

Sometimes things are not what they seem. Remember when KW traded Carlos Lee for a few stiffs and some salary relief? Worked out pretty well.

Ozzie and his coaching philosophy have failed. The team needs to move on. On the other hand, JR has been willing to keep Ozzie around even after five mediocre seasons. Therefore, it appears to be in the best interests of the team to lose.

voodoochile
06-21-2011, 01:35 AM
So I'm watching the game sort of while chatting with some friends in an MMO I play. The Sox are losing 6-3 bottom of the ninth and things are looking bleak when some random guy types, "just a small town girl" and then others chimed in and they took it to where the boy leaves town going anywhere. While AJ is singling and Rios is singling. Then it stopped and then Teahen gets a good whack and drives the ball and breiefly I really thought it was gone. But it wasn't and my fun little trivia moment died in the glove of Fukodome. Ah well... get em tomorrow...

DSpivack
06-21-2011, 02:57 AM
Your opinion...which i didnt ask for.

If they refuse to make any changes with the team playing this way, I guess its gonna take rock bottom. Which is on its way! Go Juan Pierre! Go Mark Teahen!! Go Adam Dunn!! Go Gavin Floyd!! Go Alex Rios!! Go Jake Peav...oh wait, he just pulled a hammy. DL again...

Sometimes things are not what they seem. Remember when KW traded Carlos Lee for a few stiffs and some salary relief? Worked out pretty well.

Ozzie and his coaching philosophy have failed. The team needs to move on. On the other hand, JR has been willing to keep Ozzie around even after five mediocre seasons. Therefore, it appears to be in the best interests of the team to lose.

Nope, it's still dumb.

Look at Haro's post, which player do you root to fail in order for Ozzie to be fired (which I would be fine with)? Gavin Floyd, who has been a solid starter for us for several years now, and is affordable? Maybe we should root for him to be the failure he was in Philadelphia? Or perhaps the Sox would be better off long-term crippled to an expensive, untradeable contract as Alex Rios has, if he continues sucking? Or maybe we think ownership should eat tens of million of dollars and cut loose on our expensive DH, 3 months into a 4-year deal, and ruin the team's finances for years to come? Or with Peavy, the highest paid guy on the team, surely the best thing for the White Sox is if he never pitches again for the team, or only is able to make 10-15 starts a season for the remaining years on his contract?

At least in other sports, basketball and hockey mostly, playing youngsters down the stretch can help them develop, and give the team a potentially high draft pick. There is no such equivalent in baseball.

The best interests of the team might be served right now by firing the manager. That's fine, and I don't disagree with that.

But saying that the best interests of the team are served by failing makes zero sense, in any context.

Dan H
06-21-2011, 03:15 AM
Losing to the Cubs usually ticks me off to no end. But what is really bothering me now is that the team has spent and will spend the vast majority of the season's first half under .500. It is hard to believe in this team as much as i want to believe in them. But other than Konerko, there isn't a clutch hit in the lineup.

Ozzie should have been fired a month ago.

BainesHOF
06-21-2011, 03:52 AM
No. That's not possible at all. He is just a bad manager.

Just for the record, I'm not asking if Ozzie might be doing everything he can to sabatoge the team. I'm just wondering if he's making some decisions based not on giving us the best chance to win, but on doing what he feels like doing for selfish reasons such as getting under Kenny's skin.

Exhibit No. 1 would be the continual starting of Pierre. Exhibit No. 2 would be allowing Pierre to bat in the ninth. It can be argued that both are cases of Ozzie choosing loyalty to Pierre, and sticking it to Kenny at the same time, at the expense of the good of the team.

If Ozzie knows he's leaving town after the season, I could see him possibly wanting to take down Kenny on his way out the door.

Zakath
06-21-2011, 08:03 AM
I'm mad and embarrassed that my team allowed Pierre to bat in the ninth needing a homer. Baseball decisions don't get much worse than that.


We didn't necessarily need a homer at that point. We needed a hit.

Jollyroger2
06-21-2011, 08:04 AM
Losing to the Cubs usually ticks me off to no end. But what is really bothering me now is that the team has spent and will spend the vast majority of the season's first half under .500. It is hard to believe in this team as much as i want to believe in them. But other than Konerko, there isn't a clutch hit in the lineup.

Ozzie should have been fired a month ago.

It's not just losing to the Cubs. I say the same thing every time the team wins a couple games and a handful of people here start with the "we're making a move" posts, etc. Going into a stretch playing mostly "weak" teams, the Sox have not gained ground, they've lost it.

For years now since the title the organization has shown time and time again that they are satisfied with either mediocrity, or outright failure.

The manager should have been fired a lot longer than a month ago. The franchise is doing nothing to shake up guys that are slacking, in fact they're being coddled. The majority of this team (guys like Konerko the major exceptions) is simply showing up to collect a paycheck.

dwitt76
06-21-2011, 08:37 AM
We stinks.

Damn you stole my joke :kneeslap:

tstrike2000
06-21-2011, 08:43 AM
Is it possible Ozzie is sabatoging the team in certain areas with the knowledge that he's heading to Florida after this season?

No, I don't think anyone here thinks Ozzie's a bad person and could do something like that. He loves his players like he loves his family. It's more the Sox could really use a different outlook at manager and a different perspective for in-game decisions.

russ99
06-21-2011, 08:44 AM
I'm mad and embarrassed that my team allowed Pierre to bat in the ninth needing a homer. Baseball decisions don't get much worse than that.

Is it possible Ozzie is sabatoging the team in certain areas with the knowledge that he's heading to Florida after this season?

Ozzie was thrown out of the game. Gonna blame Cora?

Also, because you don't agree with the decision made means that they're all bad decisions, or our manager is somehow incompetent.

Sometimes things are not what they seem. Remember when KW traded Carlos Lee for a few stiffs and some salary relief? Worked out pretty well.

Ozzie and his coaching philosophy have failed. The team needs to move on. On the other hand, JR has been willing to keep Ozzie around even after five mediocre seasons. Therefore, it appears to be in the best interests of the team to lose.

Ozzie and his coaching philosophy hasn't failed, more like Jerry went out, spent massive amounts of cash and got all the sluggers that the homer-happy fans wanted - and they're not executing, except for Konerko.

But since the Sox lost yesterday it's more of the same "fire Ozzie, cut Pierre" inane drivel.

Johnny Mostil
06-21-2011, 09:08 AM
Viciedo, Viciedo, I see him in every thread. The only way he comes up is with an injury, to Dunn, Quentin, Pierre or Rios. At the money Dunns locked into, no way Viciedo takes his spot. Lillibridge has earned a starting OF spot more than Viciedo has, so what does that leave for Viciedo? A spot player? Let the guy either learn to play the game in the minors or let him keep putting up inflated band box #s so maybe he can be packaged with Dunn or Rios to dump some salary for next year.

I don't watch the Knights, so I've no idea what he looks like in the field, but it appears Viciedo's batting stats (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=493364) are better on the road than at home.

Jim Margalus posts an interesting theory (http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234700/reading-room-counting-down-the-days-until-dayan) on why Viciedo hasn't yet been called: waiting another couple of weeks will delay his eventual free agency by a year.

Marqhead
06-21-2011, 09:24 AM
Ozzie was thrown out of the game. Gonna blame Cora?

Also, because you don't agree with the decision made means that they're all bad decisions, or our manager is somehow incompetent.



Ozzie and his coaching philosophy hasn't failed, more like Jerry went out, spent massive amounts of cash and got all the sluggers that the homer-happy fans wanted - and they're not executing, except for Konerko.

But since the Sox lost yesterday it's more of the same "fire Ozzie, cut Pierre" inane drivel.

Did Jerry tell Floyd to pitch to Castro with runners on 2nd and 3rd when Blake ****ing Dewitt was on deck?

Yes the sluggers have failed (a huge part no doubt, and not discounting their failures in the slightest), but time after time Ozzie's in game management blows, we need a change.

Marqhead
06-21-2011, 09:26 AM
Jim Margalus posts an interesting theory (http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234700/reading-room-counting-down-the-days-until-dayan) on why Viciedo hasn't yet been called: waiting another couple of weeks will delay his eventual free agency by a year.

There's no doubt in my mind that this is the reason he hasn't been called up yet. With the time and money they've invested in him, they're going to want to hang on to him as long as possible.

Fenway
06-21-2011, 09:27 AM
Here is video of Ozzie

http://www.nesn.com/2011/06/ozzie-guillen-adds-another-epic-ejection-to-résumé-kicks-geovany-sotos-catchers-mask-video.html

NESN a tad harsh on the White Sox

g0g0
06-21-2011, 09:31 AM
The best hit of the night came from Ozzie when he hit Soto's mask.

WhiteSox1989
06-21-2011, 09:40 AM
The best hit of the night came from Ozzie when he hit Soto's mask.
Like.


Floyd can't keep his composure after he makes a mistake.

Ah well. Get 'em today.

SOXSINCE'70
06-21-2011, 09:57 AM
Floyd can't keep his composure after he makes a mistake.


That is an understatement.:angry:

oldgrouch
06-21-2011, 10:08 AM
Is that an oxymoron?


No, Ozzie is the moron.:dtroll:

TomBradley72
06-21-2011, 10:19 AM
Lots of blame to go around- but to me- the #1 problem is that Adam Dunn is giving us less than Mark Kotsay level production- and that KW decided, for some reason, to go with a high strike out, all or nothing DH who had never DH'd before and had expressed all kinds of concerns about the role. In addition to switching leagues and playing for a contender for the first time.

With any reasonable production from Adam Dunn (or the DH role overall)- this season would be very different- not just in his production but with the impact he would have on how the guys ahead of him are pitched, etc.

The guy is a disaster of epic proportions- with no real signs of recovering.

He's now hitting .156 for the month of June, with a .269 OBP, and a .311 slugging pct., including 20 strike outs in 45 ABs.

Fisk Fan
06-21-2011, 10:32 AM
He's now hitting .156 for the month of June, with a .269 OBP, and a .311 slugging pct., including 20 strike outs in 45 ABs.

Ugh....when you look at that line, it's amazing he ever gets any AB's. Absolutely dreadful........

billcissell
06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
Another horsebleep performance all around.

Floyd had nothing last night. He should have been on a short lease. Instead, the Blizzard leaves him in there too long and before we know it we're chasing three runs.

An inning earlier we had runners on 1st and 3rd, no out, and fail to score. Terrible.

We get to Zambrano for 3 in the first and then roll over.

When this team gets down by a few runs in the late innings, they're toast. I have no faith they can mount any kind of offensive attack and come back.

Two on and two out in the 9th, trailing by 3 and Pierre comes up. Wasn't there anyone on the bench that could pinch hit?

Guillen's theatrics of kicking the face mask were nothing more than a cheap side show by a frustrated manager. Granted, it was a bad call by the home plate umpire, but it didn't cost us the game.

Dunn is a joke. Another hitless game with 3 whiffs. Imagine what your boss would do to you if you showed up to work and continually underperformed like this on your job day after day. That's right. You'd be long gone.

Unfortunately, Dunn is locked in with a nice, big fat contract courtesy of KW. So I guess Guillen will just continue to march him out there to kill any potential rallies and snuff out any offense.

We still have a chance to salvage the next two against the Cubs. But if we play like we did Monday night, we have little hope of winning.

Noneck
06-21-2011, 10:47 AM
I don't watch the Knights, so I've no idea what he looks like in the field, but it appears Viciedo's batting stats (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=493364) are better on the road than at home.

Jim Margalus posts an interesting theory (http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234700/reading-room-counting-down-the-days-until-dayan) on why Viciedo hasn't yet been called: waiting another couple of weeks will delay his eventual free agency by a year.

I am not familiar with the away parks that Charlotte plays in but do know that Birmingham is a tough park to hit in and is more of a defensive challenge in the outfield.

The free agent theory seems spot on but maybe to increase his trade worth. The Sox realize that they probably wont be able to sign this kid long term because of Borass.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Lots of blame to go around- but to me- the #1 problem is that Adam Dunn is giving us less than Mark Kotsay level production- and that KW decided, for some reason, to go with a high strike out, all or nothing DH who had never DH'd before and had expressed all kinds of concerns about the role. In addition to switching leagues and playing for a contender for the first time.



KW's response was to offer more years and money to allay those concerns.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2011, 10:54 AM
KW's response was to offer more years and money to allay those concerns.Right, because if not for the Sox stepping up, Dunn would have had to sign for 2 years, $9 mil per. :rolleyes:

hi im skot
06-21-2011, 10:54 AM
Your opinion...which i didnt ask for.

If they refuse to make any changes with the team playing this way, I guess its gonna take rock bottom. Which is on its way! Go Juan Pierre! Go Mark Teahen!! Go Adam Dunn!! Go Gavin Floyd!! Go Alex Rios!! Go Jake Peav...oh wait, he just pulled a hammy. DL again...

When you throw something incredibly stupid on a message board, you're going to hear about it whether you asked for someone's opinion or not.

Maybe they're nicer over at Bleed Cubbie Blue...check it out.

TomBradley72
06-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Ugh....when you look at that line, it's amazing he ever gets any AB's. Absolutely dreadful........

The sample sizes are very different (32 ABs for pitchers) but here are the lines of a few NL pitchers vs. Adam Dunn-


Carlos Zambrano- .313 BA, .353 OBP, .469 SLG
Dan Hudson- .281/.303/.344
Adam Dunn- .178/.319/.329

hi im skot
06-21-2011, 11:02 AM
The sample sizes are very different (32 ABs for pitchers) but here are the lines of a few NL pitchers vs. Adam Dunn-


Carlos Zambrano- .313 BA, .353 OBP, .469 SLG
Dan Hudson- .281/.303/.344
Adam Dunn- .178/.319/.329



Exactly, so what's the point?

TomBradley72
06-21-2011, 11:02 AM
KW's response was to offer more years and money to allay those concerns.

What is your point?

TomBradley72
06-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Exactly, so what's the point?

Regardless of sample size- it's pathetic.

ShooterMcGavin
06-21-2011, 11:36 AM
Why in the world would you let Juan Pierre hit there with 2 outs in the 9th, down by 3 runs? Your only hope is for somebody to hit a 3 run homer.

I'm gonna plus one your post. I was also calling for a pinch hitter at that point and couldn't believe Guillen/Cora didn't call for one.

Gavin Floyd pitched poorly.

ShooterMcGavin
06-21-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't watch the Knights, so I've no idea what he looks like in the field, but it appears Viciedo's batting stats (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=493364) are better on the road than at home.

Jim Margalus posts an interesting theory (http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234700/reading-room-counting-down-the-days-until-dayan) on why Viciedo hasn't yet been called: waiting another couple of weeks will delay his eventual free agency by a year.


Thanks for sharing the info regarding Viciedo. I'm curious to see what the Sox will do with Viciedo at that point.

hawkjt
06-21-2011, 11:45 AM
Another horsebleep performance all around.

Floyd had nothing last night. He should have been on a short lease. Instead, the Blizzard leaves him in there too long and before we know it we're chasing three runs.

An inning earlier we had runners on 1st and 3rd, no out, and fail to score. Terrible.

We get to Zambrano for 3 in the first and then roll over.

When this team gets down by a few runs in the late innings, they're toast. I have no faith they can mount any kind of offensive attack and come back.

comes up. Wasn't there anyone on the bench that could pinch hit?Two on and two out in the 9th, trailing by 3 and Pierre

Guillen's theatrics of kicking the face mask were nothing more than a cheap side show by a frustrated manager. Granted, it was a bad call by the home plate umpire, but it didn't cost us the game.

Dunn is a joke. Another hitless game with 3 whiffs. Imagine what your boss would do to you if you showed up to work and continually underperformed like this on your job day after day. That's right. You'd be long gone.

Unfortunately, Dunn is locked in with a nice, big fat contract courtesy of KW. So I guess Guillen will just continue to march him out there to kill any potential rallies and snuff out any offense.

We still have a chance to salvage the next two against the Cubs. But if we play like we did Monday night, we have little hope of winning.


There was one out when we had 1st and 3rd. Carlos popped up to right field,and Teahen could not score...then PK struck out.

Only options in the 9th were Morel,Beckham,Lilly and Castro...all righthanders vs a guy who is murder on righties. Lefty Pierre was our best chance to keep the inning going,imo.

I really thought that Teahen had tied the game with that ninth inning drive...damn!

Jerko
06-21-2011, 12:04 PM
I thought Dunn was "coming around", yet he's only batting .150 something in June? Sad.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-21-2011, 12:25 PM
What is your point?

My point is that rather than consider that the fact that Dunn's desire not to DH might affect his performance as a DH (a red flag), KW showers him with money to induce the signing.

BigKlu59
06-21-2011, 12:30 PM
:cool: That was not fun to watch last night... That is all... Having to watch Cy Zambrano win this was stomach churning... If Kenny needed a fan I could have got him one cheaper than what he paid for the Dunnwiffer 1000.. Brutal, just brutal...

BK59

slavko
06-21-2011, 12:48 PM
We're an embarrassing bunch of whiners, pointing the finger at our favorite whipping boys which include almost anyone and everyone associated with the team. And yet....we're not that far off, IMO. There's a lot of blame to go around here.

Dumping is a logical conclusion, but the guys that need dumping have contracts that make them undumpable. Who to dump? The only guys that another team would want are those who are playing halfway good or have bargain contracts. The team situation is likely to get ugly while all this is going on.

And anyone who thinks Reinsy is a great businessman is mistaken. He's a lawyer with a great backgound in putting together investment deals, not in running a business. Otherwise, we wouldn't have an organization that can't draft and nurture talent which tries to solve its problems by lucking into other people's mistakes or throwing big $$ at undeserving mopes.

Got to get in a word for Juan Pierre. He's a better leadoff man that anyone else on the team. That's why he plays, not because Ozzie has a thing for him. I didn't say he was a good leadoff man, mind you.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Another horsebleep performance all around.

Floyd had nothing last night. He should have been on a short lease. Instead, the Blizzard leaves him in there too long and before we know it we're chasing three runs.

An inning earlier we had runners on 1st and 3rd, no out, and fail to score. Terrible.

We get to Zambrano for 3 in the first and then roll over.

When this team gets down by a few runs in the late innings, they're toast. I have no faith they can mount any kind of offensive attack and come back.

Two on and two out in the 9th, trailing by 3 and Pierre comes up. Wasn't there anyone on the bench that could pinch hit?

Guillen's theatrics of kicking the face mask were nothing more than a cheap side show by a frustrated manager. Granted, it was a bad call by the home plate umpire, but it didn't cost us the game.

Dunn is a joke. Another hitless game with 3 whiffs. Imagine what your boss would do to you if you showed up to work and continually underperformed like this on your job day after day. That's right. You'd be long gone.

Unfortunately, Dunn is locked in with a nice, big fat contract courtesy of KW. So I guess Guillen will just continue to march him out there to kill any potential rallies and snuff out any offense.

We still have a chance to salvage the next two against the Cubs. But if we play like we did Monday night, we have little hope of winning.


Someone has to give Dunn a kick in the butt, could you imagine George Steinbrenner putting up with Dunn's performance this year.
This is becoming a real joke but the joke's on us.

russ99
06-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Lots of blame to go around- but to me- the #1 problem is that Adam Dunn is giving us less than Mark Kotsay level production- and that KW decided, for some reason, to go with a high strike out, all or nothing DH who had never DH'd before and had expressed all kinds of concerns about the role. In addition to switching leagues and playing for a contender for the first time.

With any reasonable production from Adam Dunn (or the DH role overall)- this season would be very different- not just in his production but with the impact he would have on how the guys ahead of him are pitched, etc.

The guy is a disaster of epic proportions- with no real signs of recovering.

He's now hitting .156 for the month of June, with a .269 OBP, and a .311 slugging pct., including 20 strike outs in 45 ABs.

Ditto on Rios with this .210 average.

Dunn is on pace for something like 65 RBIs (97 average per 162 games) and Rios is on pace for 43 RBIs (78 avg)

There's your inconsistent offense right there.

While this is highly irregular and iffy at best, I wonder if the Sox couldn't setup Dunn with a mystery injury and a long "rehab" assignment getting his swing back against AAA pitching...

soltrain21
06-21-2011, 01:12 PM
Ditto on Rios with this .210 average.

Dunn is on pace for something like 65 RBIs (97 average per 162 games) and Rios is on pace for 43 RBIs (78 avg)

There's your inconsistent offense right there.

No. That's part of it. The other part is Pierre is terrible.

tstrike2000
06-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Got to get in a word for Juan Pierre. He's a better leadoff man that anyone else on the team. That's why he plays, not because Ozzie has a thing for him. I didn't say he was a good leadoff man, mind you.

Sad when Adam Dunn has a slightly better OBP then our leadoff guy.

russ99
06-21-2011, 01:15 PM
No. That's part of it. The other part is Pierre is terrible.

This again? Unreal. Pierre can score runs only if he's driven in.

In case you're not watching the actual games, almost nobody's being driven in unless it's a homer. That's the problem. Not Pierre.

soltrain21
06-21-2011, 01:27 PM
This again? Unreal. Pierre can score runs only if he's driven in.

In case you're not watching the actual games, almost nobody's being driven in unless it's a homer. That's the problem. Not Pierre.

We must be watching different White Sox games because Pierre is never on base.

DirtySox
06-21-2011, 02:15 PM
This again? Unreal. Pierre can score runs only if he's driven in.

In case you're not watching the actual games, almost nobody's being driven in unless it's a homer. That's the problem. Not Pierre.

Pierre can't get on base. Pierre can't hit. Pierre can't steal. Pierre can't defend. Pierre can't hit for power. Pierre can't even beat out double plays anymore. Pierre is a zero tool player right now. He has nothing. This Juan Pierre Defense Force Crusade is absolutely ridiculous.

Thankfully Dayan will be up in the next two weeks once the service time issue is solved, and Juan will be relegated to the bench or hopefully traded/released.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Pierre can't get on base. Pierre can't hit. Pierre can't steal. Pierre can't defend. Pierre can't hit for power. Pierre can't even beat out double plays anymore. Pierre is a zero tool player right now. He has nothing. This Juan Pierre Defense Force Crusade is absolutely ridiculous.

Thankfully Dayan will be up in the next two weeks once the service time issue is solved, and Juan will be relegated to the bench or hopefully traded/released.I don't think it is a certainty at this point. The Sox are finally doing what people have recommended for so long - let a prospect sit in the minors and work on his flaws. Who knows if Beckham would be better now if given time to set his swing pre-Walker. Viciedo is learning a new defensive position, and from what I have heard, doing pretty well. He needs to draw more walks and cut down on strikeouts. He has done that this year, but there is still room for improvement. I see no problem with Vidiedo staying down until September. I don't want Pierre leading off that whole time, but that is another issue. The Sox have others they can put in that role.

DirtySox
06-21-2011, 02:31 PM
I don't think it is a certainty at this point. The Sox are finally doing what people have recommended for so long - let a prospect sit in the minors and work on his flaws. Who knows if Beckham would be better now if given time to set his swing pre-Walker. Viciedo is learning a new defensive position, and from what I have heard, doing pretty well. He needs to draw more walks and cut down on strikeouts. He has done that this year, but there is still room for improvement. I see no problem with Vidiedo staying down until September. I don't want Pierre leading off that whole time, but that is another issue. The Sox have others they can put in that role.

I'm in the mindset that Dayan needs to be challenged. He's had plenty of development time. Substantially more than Beckham who I agree would have benefited by more reps in the minors. Viciedo's walk rate could increase, and it has this season, but I don't think he's ever going to be a patient hitter. Also, his strikeout rate isn't an issue at all. It's sitting at 17% which is above average for a slugger. He generally makes contact. The bat speed is fantastic. His defense is the only thing I'm worried about. I've heard his ceiling in that regard is "passable."

russ99
06-21-2011, 02:57 PM
Pierre can't get on base. Pierre can't hit. Pierre can't steal. Pierre can't defend. Pierre can't hit for power. Pierre can't even beat out double plays anymore. Pierre is a zero tool player right now. He has nothing. This Juan Pierre Defense Force Crusade is absolutely ridiculous.

Sunday - 2/5 , 2 runs scored
Monday - 1/5, 1 runs scored

Keep it up... What's absolutely ridiculous is the "Juan Pierre is the cause of all our problems" crusade.

captain54
06-21-2011, 02:58 PM
And anyone who thinks Reinsy is a great businessman is mistaken. He's a lawyer with a great backgound in putting together investment deals, not in running a business. Otherwise, we wouldn't have an organization that can't draft and nurture talent which tries to solve its problems by lucking into other people's mistakes or throwing big $$ at undeserving mopes.



There's no question that Reinsy is an astute deal-maker and mover/shaker, evidenced by his move in the late 80's of singlehandlely shaking down the state of Illinois to get his New Comiskey built. Whether or not that translates into putting together a baseball dynasty is debatable.

When the Sunshine Boys (Reinsdorf/Einhorn) purchased the Sox in the early 80's, it was a franchise that was going absolutely nowhere. 1983 was the first post-season appearance for the Sox in 24 yrs and the Boys certainly deserve some credit for that (although Roland Hemond remains an unsung hero)

You would have to say though, that Reiney and Co. have a fairly dubious track record during this 30 yr stretch. While 2005 is their crowning achievement, you also have to look at 1) hiring Hawk as the GM, who promptly fired LaRussa, a Reiney favorite, 2) strike in 2004, 3) trading away and re-trading back for Harold Baines, 4) Terry Bevington, 5) White Flag Trade, 6) dissing of Carlton Fisk in 93, 7) lack of a productive farm system, as some of the low lights that some would say are evidence that the business acumen does not transfer necessarily to an ability to put together a baseball powerhouse.

Furthermore, one would also have to question whether the Sox brass surround themselves with solid, knowledgeable baseball people, or rather those that display undivided loyalty and acquiesence to the company line. That, in my opinion, has hurt this franchise more than anything

JB98
06-21-2011, 03:00 PM
What's really a shame is the Sox are wasting a helluva month by Konerko -- .421 average, 9 HRs in June. Yet the team is only 9-8 this month despite a favorable schedule.

It's a wonder anyone even throws Paul a strike anymore given the laughable horse**** we've seen from the hitters around him.

DirtySox
06-21-2011, 03:01 PM
Sunday - 2/5 , 2 runs scored
Monday - 1/5, 1 runs scored

Keep it up... What's absolutely ridiculous is the "Juan Pierre is the cause of all our problems" crusade.

Small sample size much? Is all absolved because Juan is now 3 for 10 in two games? How about his whole body of work this season? Should I start citing individual games where Dayan was productive? IE the entire year?

Juan Pierre is being targeted because he is immediately replaceable by someone and will be gone after this season ends. We are stuck with Rios and Dunn and they will continue to play in hopes of returning to their norms, like it or not.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-21-2011, 03:10 PM
Small sample size much? Is all absolved because Juan is now 3 for 10 in two games? How about his whole body of work this season? Should I start citing individual games where Dayan was productive? IE the entire year?

Juan Pierre is being targeted because he is immediately replaceable by someone and will be gone after this season ends. We are stuck with Rios and Dunn and they will continue to play in hopes of returning to their norms, like it or not.

As JB pointed out, Konerko is hitting .421 with 9 HRs this month. Quentin is hitting .281 with 4 HRs. Too bad Juan only has a .284 OBP (and .226 AVG) this month in front of them.

doublem23
06-21-2011, 03:15 PM
Sunday - 2/5 , 2 runs scored
Monday - 1/5, 1 runs scored

Keep it up... What's absolutely ridiculous is the "Juan Pierre is the cause of all our problems" crusade.

WOW, TWO GAMES.

Pierre is hitting .256/.317/.298. He is one of, if not the, worst everyday player in the American League.

JB98
06-21-2011, 03:37 PM
WOW, TWO GAMES.

Pierre is hitting .256/.317/.298. He is one of, if not the, worst everyday player in the American League.

What's really funny is that .300 OBP over the last two games is actually WORSE than Pierre's season total. That performance is supposed to win over the skeptical masses how?

jdm2662
06-21-2011, 03:51 PM
What's really a shame is the Sox are wasting a helluva month by Konerko -- .421 average, 9 HRs in June. Yet the team is only 9-8 this month despite a favorable schedule.

It's a wonder anyone even throws Paul a strike anymore given the laughable horse**** we've seen from the hitters around him.

With Dunn now hitting behind him and sucking ass, I was surprised the Cubs pitched to Konerko in the fifth.

BigKlu59
06-21-2011, 05:19 PM
With Dunn now hitting behind him and sucking ass, I was surprised the Cubs pitched to Konerko in the fifth.


:D: That crossed my mind as well... I'm surprised more teams havent given Walnuts the free pass, to work on the so called 'Easy Outs" in this line up.. as has been said... what a waste of Pauly's hot lumber this month. A few of those long balls with some ducks on the pond would have us in a much better state of mind. Without him things would be much uglier than they are. Pauly is earning his paycheck, no doubt about it!!!

BK59

JermaineDye05
06-21-2011, 06:34 PM
WOW, TWO GAMES.

Pierre is hitting .256/.317/.298. He is one of, if not the, worst everyday player in the American League.

Actually in the majors.

TomBradley72
06-21-2011, 07:11 PM
Sunday - 2/5 , 2 runs scored
Monday - 1/5, 1 runs scored

Keep it up... What's absolutely ridiculous is the "Juan Pierre is the cause of all our problems" crusade.

Not sure if a 1/5 game is part of really powerful argument.

DrCrawdad
06-21-2011, 07:40 PM
Was the TCM ball fair or foul?

I didn't see either the game, didn't see the play. But some Cubbie fan coworkers told me that it was clearly a fair ball and that the Sox broadcast covered up (did not show) the replays that showed that was fair. I know that Mark Gonzalez said that it bounced fair but rolled foul (behind the plate) when Soto caught it. What did the Cubbie broadcasters say? What say you?

DSpivack
06-21-2011, 07:51 PM
Was the TCM ball fair or foul?

I didn't see either the game, didn't see the play. But some Cubbie fan coworkers told me that it was clearly a fair ball and that the Sox broadcast covered up (did not show) the replays that showed that was fair. I know that Mark Gonzalez said that it bounced fair but rolled foul (behind the plate) when Soto caught it. What did the Cubbie broadcasters say? What say you?

I neither know nor really care what Brenly/Kasper said, but Gonzalez is right.

Nellie_Fox
06-22-2011, 12:57 AM
Someone has to give Dunn a kick in the butt, could you imagine George Steinbrenner putting up with Dunn's performance this year.What do you suggest? I have no clue what they should do about Dunn, other than move him further down in the lineup and sit him entirely against lefties, but to bring up Steinbrenner is pointless. Steinbrenner was an idiot who had the luxury of just being able to go out and buy someone else to fill a spot on the roster. He could have afforded to release Dunn if he felt like it; the Sox cannot. Nobody else can operate the way Steinbrenner did. Nobody.