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View Full Version : Sun-Times praises Sox, rails Cubs in Crosstown preview


doublem23
06-20-2011, 01:39 AM
Wow, whoever wrote this piece has to be the most positive Sox fan ever.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/6054532-417/crosstown-classic-is-the-only-series-cubs-fans-have-to-look-forward-to.html

keloms
06-20-2011, 04:10 AM
Wow, whoever wrote this piece has to be the most positive Sox fan ever.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/6054532-417/crosstown-classic-is-the-only-series-cubs-fans-have-to-look-forward-to.html

By JOE COWLEY

:tongue: lol

doublem23
06-20-2011, 05:52 AM
Huh, there wasn't a byline posted when I first saw it. Perhaps Cowley's brain broke?

DumpJerry
06-20-2011, 06:41 AM
Huh, there wasn't a byline posted when I first saw it. Perhaps Cowley's brain broke?
Yup, it's broken. He says the Sox have a "bye week" before going to Colorado because they face the Cubs and Nasty Nats this week. I guess he does not follow MLB to closely, because the Nasty Nats just broke a seven game winning streak yesterday to take eight of their last ten games.

He probably wrote the column before yesterday's action since he seems to think the Cubs made the Yankees sweat all weekend without any mention of last night's 10-4 blowout.

g0g0
06-20-2011, 07:37 AM
He probably wrote the column before yesterday's action since he seems to think the Cubs made the Yankees sweat all weekend without any mention of last night's 10-4 blowout.

Hardly a blowout. It was tied until the 8th with Swisher's homerun. Just a couple of big atbats gave them the 6 runs. Hats off to the Yankees, but the Cubs were in it most of the game. As usual didn't have the manpower (ie pitching) to keep it close.

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-20-2011, 07:52 AM
This morning on M & H, Cowley and Zach are sitting in....Cowley said the buzz on the Cubs is down but the Sox are up, because "this is now a Sox town".

Red Barchetta
06-20-2011, 08:42 AM
This is probably the best time in the history of JR's ownership of the White Sox where they have the ability to serious take some Chicago market share away from the Cubs. Even greater than the post World Series win period because at the time, the Tribune marketing powerhouse was still countering the efforts of the White Sox. Rickett's doesn't have that ability.

I know winning solves everything, however the SOX marketing, PR and other partners need to step it up. Chicago could be a SOX town again if they play this correctly.

russ99
06-20-2011, 08:49 AM
This morning on M & H, Cowley and Zach are sitting in....Cowley said the buzz on the Cubs is down but the Sox are up, because "this is now a Sox town".

A Sox town... LOL. Whatever, we'll take it.

This Sun-Times article isn't optimistic. It's just saying what we all know, that if the Sox can play to their overall talent level, it can contend.

It's more like people around here are pessimistic.

Quentin08
06-20-2011, 08:52 AM
Sox town? We're the only team in Chicago that never.. oh well.

By the way, this could be the first time in interleague history that the Crosstown series doesn't sell out. It looks like there's still plenty of tickets available. Do you guys think the series will sell out?

Dan H
06-20-2011, 08:55 AM
This is probably the best time in the history of JR's ownership of the White Sox where they have the ability to serious take some Chicago market share away from the Cubs. Even greater than the post World Series win period because at the time, the Tribune marketing powerhouse was still countering the efforts of the White Sox. Rickett's doesn't have that ability.

I know winning solves everything, however the SOX marketing, PR and other partners need to step it up. Chicago could be a SOX town again if they play this correctly.

This is what frustrating about the Sox slow start. The Cub facade is cracking bit by bit. Obviously the Tribune Media machine was very effective in making the Cubs popular. But now winning is more important than ever. If the White Sox can get the playoffs during the next few seasons as Cubs flounder, they can finally make a dent in that hyped Cub armor. But winning between 80-86 games is not going to do it.

hawkjt
06-20-2011, 09:03 AM
This series was tied at 33 until two years ago. Sox have taken 8 of 12 since then to go to 41-37. Time to put that hammer down,Sox..please.

I am of the school of thought that this town will never really change. More fans might show up at Soxpark if they win,but Cubs fans will never crossover and Sox fans will never crossover. I suppose the youth market is up for grabs a bit, but the Cubs will always have their regional support which the Sox do not have as much. There are plenty of Sox fans in the area to fill up the park...just win.

Chez
06-20-2011, 09:12 AM
I've posted this sentiment before, but I really enjoy rooting for the "second team" in town. I have no interest in the Sox becoming more popular than the Cubs. Obviously, I'm all for being the more successful (on the filed) team in town, but popular? No big deal.

billcissell
06-20-2011, 09:29 AM
Chicago hasn't been a Sox town for a very long time, probably going back to the early to mid 60s.

This has been a Cubs town ever since Durocher turned around the northsiders in 1967 and created some excitement in the Urinal. The Sox have been playing catch up ever since, despite some "spike" seasons (division titles in '83 and '00, the new park in '91, championship in '05).

There has been a slow but steady shift over the last ten years or so in the numbers. I believe there are now more Sox fans around town. And quite a few Cubs fans seem very frustrated and angry about the Cubs situation.

Anyone who crosses over, one way or the other, isn't a true fan to begin with, so I don't even bother to count these turncoats.

The Sox have increased their appeal to young, impressionable fans over the last ten years. The Cubs continue to be the more popular choice among young fans who are forming their allegiances, but I feel the Sox have made impressive inroads.

Chicago is still a Cubs town, but the meter has been slightly moving towards the Sox for a few years now.

Hitmen77
06-20-2011, 09:37 AM
This is probably the best time in the history of JR's ownership of the White Sox where they have the ability to serious take some Chicago market share away from the Cubs. Even greater than the post World Series win period because at the time, the Tribune marketing powerhouse was still countering the efforts of the White Sox. Rickett's doesn't have that ability.

I know winning solves everything, however the SOX marketing, PR and other partners need to step it up. Chicago could be a SOX town again if they play this correctly.

This is what frustrating about the Sox slow start. The Cub facade is cracking bit by bit. Obviously the Tribune Media machine was very effective in making the Cubs popular. But now winning is more important than ever. If the White Sox can get the playoffs during the next few seasons as Cubs flounder, they can finally make a dent in that hyped Cub armor. But winning between 80-86 games is not going to do it.

Dan H,
That's exactly how I feel. The Sox have a great opportunity this year to make another dent in the Cubs stranglehold on this market. I say "another" because I think they made a dent in the Cubs market dominance in 2005.

Many Cubs fans seem to be especially fed up this year. They're not happy with what they've seen from Ricketts so far. The Sox playing .500 ball isn't going to cut it. They need to make the playoffs this year in order to really give market share another push toward the South Side.

It is frustrating to see the Sox play so inconsistently so far. I just hope they turn things around from here on our and stop being the Twins' and Tigers' whipping boys.

Hitmen77
06-20-2011, 09:49 AM
A Sox town... LOL. Whatever, we'll take it.


This statement is Cowley being Cowley. Just trying to :stirpot: with Cubs fans.

Sox town? We're the only team in Chicago that never.. oh well.

By the way, this could be the first time in interleague history that the Crosstown series doesn't sell out. It looks like there's still plenty of tickets available. Do you guys think the series will sell out?

I don't know if this is the first year they have done this, but the Sox have really jacked up prices for the Cubs series. The sellouts might not be in danger if the tickets weren't so overpriced.

I've posted this sentiment before, but I really enjoy rooting for the "second team" in town. I have no interest in the Sox becoming more popular than the Cubs. Obviously, I'm all for being the more successful (on the filed) team in town, but popular? No big deal.

I don't feel the Sox have to be the "more popular", but I do want them to be reasonably popular. This team almost left Chicago several times in a 20 year period from the late 60s to the late 80s. I don't want that ever to even come close to possibly happening again.

Also, I think popularity and success on the field are somewhat linked. If the Sox have a really small fan base, we'd still would be proud of them, but it would make it that much harder for them to compete in today's MLB economics.

Chicago hasn't been a Sox town for a very long time, probably going back to the early to mid 60s.

This has been a Cubs town ever since Durocher turned around the northsiders in 1967 and created some excitement in the Urinal. The Sox have been playing catch up ever since, despite some "spike" seasons (division titles in '83 and '00, the new park in '91, championship in '05).

There has been a slow but steady shift over the last ten years or so in the numbers. I believe there are now more Sox fans around town. And quite a few Cubs fans seem very frustrated and angry about the Cubs situation.

Anyone who crosses over, one way or the other, isn't a true fan to begin with, so I don't even bother to count these turncoats.

The Sox have increased their appeal to young, impressionable fans over the last ten years. The Cubs continue to be the more popular choice among young fans who are forming their allegiances, but I feel the Sox have made impressive inroads.

Chicago is still a Cubs town, but the meter has been slightly moving towards the Sox for a few years now.

That's the key right there. You're not going to get many established adult fans to change allegiances. But the difference is in winning over youngsters who have not formed an allegiance yet (not everyone grows up totally indoctrinated in Cubs or Sox kool-aid).

Part of how the Cubs won over the Chicago market was the 2 generation of fans from 1968 to about the mid- to late-90s who found the Cubs more accessible on WGN while the Sox bounced around from UHF channels (back when they weren't nearly as accessible) to pay TV to finally on basic cable.

kevingrt
06-20-2011, 10:15 AM
That's the key right there. You're not going to get many established adult fans to change allegiances. But the difference is in winning over youngsters who have not formed an allegiance yet (not everyone grows up totally indoctrinated in Cubs or Sox kool-aid).

Part of how the Cubs won over the Chicago market was the 2 generation of fans from 1968 to about the mid- to late-90s who found the Cubs more accessible on WGN while the Sox bounced around from UHF channels (back when they weren't nearly as accessible) to pay TV to finally on basic cable.

So true about the young fans. I think many more kids are becoming Sox fans because they have been doing much better then the Cubs ever since 1993. Come 10-15 years from now I could totally see this town being a Sox town. Right now it's still Cubs though.

But who really cares?

Dan H
06-20-2011, 10:16 AM
To me, the real rivalry has almost nothing to do with the head-to-head competition. Naturally, I want the White Sox to beat the Cubs, but that won't matter much if the Sox fold their collective tent against the Twins and Tigers.

The rivalry had long roots before inter-league play. It revolved around their separate ball parks, traditions and histories. If one team truly wants to out-distance the other, it should do it by getting to the post season more often.

I am really not overly concerned about who out-draws whom or which team is considered more popular. I'd like to see the White Sox outshine the Cubs because I am interested in the team becoming more viable and able to establish a rich, winning tradition. I don't really need to get so emotionally wrapped up in beating the Cubs. I want the White Sox to win this competition in a more meaningful way.

oldgrouch
06-20-2011, 10:27 AM
Actually, Harry Caray did more to make it a Cubs town than anything else.
The drunks followed him to Wrigley in droves.:gulp:

Ron Karkovice
06-20-2011, 11:10 AM
Actually, Harry Caray did more to make it a Cubs town than anything else.
The drunks followed him to Wrigley in droves.:gulp:

Don't forget Steroids McGee.

chisoxfanatic
06-20-2011, 11:32 AM
I've posted this sentiment before, but I really enjoy rooting for the "second team" in town. I have no interest in the Sox becoming more popular than the Cubs. Obviously, I'm all for being the more successful (on the filed) team in town, but popular? No big deal.
I totally understand that sentiment, and it speaks for myself as well. I feel like rooting for the Sox is like being a part of an "underground club" so to speak. There are no bells and whistles...It's purely about baseball, and I wouldn't have it any other way!

I think some Cubs fans are beginning to notice that Wrigley isn't so great, and the product on the field that they haven't really paid attention to is horrible.

kittle42
06-20-2011, 11:51 AM
I think some Cubs fans are beginning to notice that Wrigley isn't so great, and the product on the field that they haven't really paid attention to is horrible.

It's more the long-term Cubs fans than the trixie transplants that have been worn down. I think the "it's cool to go there" crowd will die down more as the displeasure among the true fan base continues to rise.

soltrain21
06-20-2011, 12:01 PM
I totally understand that sentiment, and it speaks for myself as well. I feel like rooting for the Sox is like being a part of an "underground club" so to speak. There are no bells and whistles...It's purely about baseball, and I wouldn't have it any other way!

I think some Cubs fans are beginning to notice that Wrigley isn't so great, and the product on the field that they haven't really paid attention to is horrible.

Purely about baseball? Our GM and manager seem to differ.

FielderJones
06-20-2011, 12:02 PM
I don't know if this is the first year they have done this, but the Sox have really jacked up prices for the Cubs series. The sellouts might not be in danger if the tickets weren't so overpriced.

I think the Sox ticket office took note of what these tickets were selling for on the secondary market, and decided to keep more of that money in house. I think a combination of unforeseen events have contributed to the lack of sellout:


Really, really crappy start to the Sox season. Anyone who tries to tell me they foresaw something this bad is blowing smoke.
The end of the Cubune marketing machine. Ricketts has to actually pay out of his own pocket, unlike the Cubune Company that just made some ledger entries.

Hitmen77
06-20-2011, 12:05 PM
So true about the young fans. I think many more kids are becoming Sox fans because they have been doing much better then the Cubs ever since 1993. Come 10-15 years from now I could totally see this town being a Sox town. Right now it's still Cubs though.

But who really cares?

I addressed that in the part of my post that you didn't quote:


I don't feel the Sox have to be the "more popular", but I do want them to be reasonably popular. This team almost left Chicago several times in a 20 year period from the late 60s to the late 80s. I don't want that ever to even come close to possibly happening again.

Also, I think popularity and success on the field are somewhat linked. If the Sox have a really small fan base, we'd still would be proud of them, but it would make it that much harder for them to compete in today's MLB economics.

JB98
06-20-2011, 12:13 PM
Bye week? Geez.

Anyone who follows this Sox team knows they are perfectly capable of laying a turd against the Cubs and Nats. The Sox could play great this week, too. Who knows?

There's a reason you get to be 35-38.

Tragg
06-20-2011, 12:27 PM
Didn't read much Sox praise, as I did Cub disgust.

TheOldRoman
06-20-2011, 12:41 PM
As usual, Cowley is to be ignored. He has been trolling Cubs fans with this whole "Soxtown" thing all year. It's just Joe doing what he always does, throwing stuff at the wall and trying to piss people off so they click on his articles and call the Score when he is on air.

DumpJerry
06-20-2011, 12:59 PM
By the way, this could be the first time in interleague history that the Crosstown series doesn't sell out. It looks like there's still plenty of tickets available. Do you guys think the series will sell out?
It's like this every year. The teams (both do this) have a holdback which is released on day of game.

The only reason why it won't sell out is because the weather is crap this week until Friday.

siugrad25
06-20-2011, 01:01 PM
Bye week? Geez.

Anyone who follows this Sox team knows they are perfectly capable of laying a turd against the Cubs and Nats. The Sox could play great this week, too. Who knows?

There's a reason you get to be 35-38.

Despite their record, the Cubs have played teams fairly well the past week. They were in both series against the Phillies and Yankees, and this series against our White Sox won't be different. As for the Nationals, didn't they just have a seven-game winning streak snapped yesterday? I'm not a believer with much of their line-up outside of Morse and Werth (who's really down this year), but you can't just dismiss them this weekend. If the Sox can go 4-2 against the Cubs and Nats, I'd be extremely pleased.

DSpivack
06-20-2011, 01:50 PM
Anyone who crosses over, one way or the other, isn't a true fan to begin with, so I don't even bother to count these turncoats.

I "crossed over" when I was 9. I guess I'm not a true fan. :(::redneck

billcissell
06-20-2011, 04:22 PM
Kids are impressionable. Too often they become fans of a certain team because of their father or some other influential adult in their lives.

Crossing over at a young age, say before you become an adult, is fairly common and perfectly acceptable. But I question the motive and sincerity of adults who cross over, especially when it involves the Cubs and Sox. That kind of a decision smacks of bandwagon jumping. They can just as easily switch back a year or two later when the fortunes of their favorite team turns south.

kittle42
06-20-2011, 04:45 PM
But I question the motive and sincerity of adults who cross over, especially when it involves the Cubs and Sox. That kind of a decision smacks of bandwagon jumping. They can just as easily switch back a year or two later when the fortunes of their favorite team turns south.

A large % of people just don't have the level of passion that people like the posters here and at other team fan sites have. Those are the people teams try to lure with advertising, etc. As "real" fans of a team, we tend to be put off by such things, but I'm that way with, say, the Bulls. Admitted bandwagoner.

spongyfungy
06-20-2011, 07:58 PM
Cowley sat in for Spiegel last week and Danny Mac's producer Jay Zawaski went on a tirade about how the media is so biased against the Cubs and the Sox can do wrong. Even Paul Sullivan rails against them all the time.

I guess this was his answer to Jay. He also did say when he came to Chicago and was on the Sox beat, he was surprised by how much the media, especially the TV people are Chicago fans.