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View Full Version : *Official* 6/17 Hudson Beats the Sox Postgamer


thomas35forever
06-17-2011, 11:18 PM
Any questions?

spongyfungy
06-17-2011, 11:18 PM
This stings.

ChiSoxGal85
06-17-2011, 11:18 PM
/end thread.

konerko 14
06-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Viciedo

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Great performance by Hudson. Kudos. Glad Kenny had a front row seat for this one.

Bitter? You bet.

billyvsox
06-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Any questions?

No questions. But the answers are clear, but they will never happen with this regime

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Viciedo
Where's he gonna play?

all*star quentin
06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Not happy.

cleanwsox
06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Don't worry, Hudson won't be able to do this against AL teams.


:anon:

GoSox4
06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Fitting way to end the game.

**** this ****

balke
06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
What can you do against Hudson? He throws a changeup for gosh sakes. Tip your caps - best pitcher ever.

SoxSpeed22
06-17-2011, 11:21 PM
At least Hudson pitched much better than those two in Minnesota. We're not going anywhere this year.
Kenny Williams and Ozzie:
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/171-0110063710-cartoon-Wile-E-Coyote+acme-TNT.jpg

1989
06-17-2011, 11:21 PM
**** you Kenny Williams

russ99
06-17-2011, 11:22 PM
Looks like corpseball doesn't work in the NL either.

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:22 PM
Sox offense has been pathetic yet Viciedo is stuck in Charlotte because Ozzie can't find a spot for him. Yet Pierre, Rios, Beckham, and Dunn can play almost every game.

ShooterMcGavin
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
That 2-out RBI double E. Jackson gave up to Hudson was basically the game.

I think Bruney walks the first guy he faces every appearance.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
Heads are really gonna roll after this one.Just watch.No postgame spread
i'll bet.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
Daniel Hudson pitches a complete game three-hitter, allowing one run and striking out five.

But Pierre got a hit, right?

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
**** you Kenny Williams
I've been Kenny's biggest supporter/fan over the years but I second that emotion.

balke
06-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Lose home series to Detroit - check. 2 game sweep by Twins - check. First complete game for former player against the player you got in return - check.

cleanwsox
06-17-2011, 11:24 PM
**** you Kenny Williams

Nobody making more than $6 million on Arizona... and they are 7 games over.

God, I hate watching overpaid crap.

soltrain21
06-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Really, Bill Melton? Going to yell at the ****ing pitchers because of this ****show?

thomas35forever
06-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Lose home series to Detroit - check. 2 game sweep by Twins - check. First complete game for former player against the player you got in return - check.
So one game determines the outcome of a trade?

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:25 PM
Sox are 3-29 when trailing after 6 says Bill Melton.

sox1970
06-17-2011, 11:25 PM
Last place by the end of interleague? Could happen.

This team has to get to .500 by the break, or they have to be sellers.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
Everyone around baseball is laughing at KW tonight.

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
So one game determines the outcome of a trade?

Nope. But the scale is clearly tipping towards Hudson. He also has 4 more years after this one to improve. Jackson is all but out the door. Holmberg is also emerging as a great prospect who was inexplicably thrown into the trade.

tstrike2000
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
33-38, this team sucks.

sox1970
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
I've been Kenny's biggest supporter/fan over the years but I second that emotion.

He's the architect of this team, and if they don't make the playoffs this year, he has to go. Has to.

soltrain21
06-17-2011, 11:27 PM
Last place by the end of interleague? Could happen.

This team has to get to .500 by the break, or they have to be sellers.

They can't be buyers, anyway. We have nothing in the minors at all.

GoSox4
06-17-2011, 11:27 PM
It could be worse, you could be Anthony Weiner

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:27 PM
He's the architect of this team, and if they don't make the playoffs this year, he has to go. Has to.
I agree.

cws05champ
06-17-2011, 11:28 PM
He's the architect of this team, and if they don't make the playoffs this year, he has to go. Has to.
+ 1

...oh, and fire Walker please!!

hi im skot
06-17-2011, 11:28 PM
It could be worse, you could be Anthony Weiner

Topical.

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:28 PM
Everyone around baseball is laughing at KW tonight.
He deserves it.

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:29 PM
They can't be buyers, anyway. We have nothing in the minors at all.

They can trade Dayan. The meltdown here would be astronomical.

WhiteSoxOnly
06-17-2011, 11:29 PM
33-38, this team sucks.

Pretty much.

arKnaD7
06-17-2011, 11:30 PM
White Sox Baseball: We're giving your bullpen the day off

BainesHOF
06-17-2011, 11:30 PM
This is a team full of dumb, gutless hitters run by an incompetent manager.

We're a bad hitting and fielding team and Lillibridge sits the last three games? Ridiculous.

Tragg
06-17-2011, 11:30 PM
Great performance by Hudson. Kudos. Glad Kenny had a front row seat for this one.

Bitter? You bet.
Hopefully, JR had a front row seat two. He might ask who the hell is evaluating talent and fashioning trades in this organization

Sox35th
06-17-2011, 11:31 PM
Tip the Cap Ozzie....don't worry the hitting will come around....2015!!

WOW...not good at all :angry:

So...the only thing I was hoping for over the next six days...is for the Sox to take two from the D-Backs....then come home and take care of the Cubs for city pride....not looking good at all...think I'll just give my tixs away for Mondays game!!

JB98
06-17-2011, 11:31 PM
33-38, this team sucks.

Indeed. A lot of pitchers get their first career this and first career that against Walk and the boys.

Does anyone on this club other than Konerko have a plan at the plate? I know Hudson fanned Paulie twice, but Paulie also hit the ball hard twice. Everyone else, not so much.

balke
06-17-2011, 11:33 PM
Daniel Hudson pitches a complete game three-hitter, allowing one run and striking out five.

But Pierre got a hit, right?

:tiphat: Just too much goood stuff. Cy Hudson.

Noneck
06-17-2011, 11:33 PM
They can trade Dayan. The meltdown here would be astronomical.

Not if they package him with either Dunn or Rios in order to dump salary. Thats the only way Rios or Dunn could be dumped.

johnnyg83
06-17-2011, 11:33 PM
2 runs ... three games. This team is exhausting.

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:38 PM
This team is a ****ing joke.

2 runs in three games against the Twins and Diamondbacks.

Bang up job, Walker.

Ozzie, get it through your head, Juan Pierre sucks. I'm not watching another game with him in the starting lineup.

PalehosePlanet
06-17-2011, 11:38 PM
As much as I like Daniel Hudson, I can't honestly say that he pitched great tonight. Our offense is so bad right now that it's possible that we just made him look good.

Let's hope this isn't another patented three week slump.

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:39 PM
As much as I like Daniel Hudson, I can't honestly say that he pitched great tonight. Our offense is so bad right now that it's possible that we just made him look good.

Let's hope this isn't another patented three week slump.

Well, the last couple of wins were because of **** defense by the opposition.

The offense sure as hell isn't there right now.

It'd be a good bet to say this team is entering a world of pain for the next couple of weeks. I don't care who they're playing.

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:40 PM
2 runs ... three games. This team is exhausting.
Yeah. Who needs a potential middle of the order run producer who is tearing it up in AAA while we have Rios, Pierre, Dunn and Beckham up here? Where would he play???

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:43 PM
As much as I like Daniel Hudson, I can't honestly say that he pitched great tonight. Our offense is so bad right now that it's possible that we just made him look good.

Let's hope this isn't another patented three week slump.

He didn't pitch 3 hitter good, but it was a fine performance. Dan has been pretty dominant his last 10 or so starts.

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:43 PM
Yeah. Who needs a potential middle of the order run producer who is tearing it up in AAA while we have Rios, Pierre, Dunn and Beckham up here? Where would he play???

He can't get on base and then get himself out by attempting to steal second or third at the most inopportune times. So what's really the point?

cleanwsox
06-17-2011, 11:43 PM
Yeah. Who needs a potential middle of the order run producer who is tearing it up in AAA while we have Rios, Pierre, Dunn and Beckham up here? Where would he play???

It sucks. Teams with lower payrolls can keep replacing non-producers until they find somebody that fits. The Sox just have to sit, wait, and hope for Rios, Pierre, Dunn, etc to figure it out.

JB98
06-17-2011, 11:44 PM
As much as I like Daniel Hudson, I can't honestly say that he pitched great tonight. Our offense is so bad right now that it's possible that we just made him look good.

Let's hope this isn't another patented three week slump.

A blown save against Oakland led to a three-week slump before. Since Santos blew that game last Friday night, I think the offense has something like three hits with RISP over the last five games. Thank goodness Oakland's defense sucks and thank goodness Dunn happened to run into one with two on Sunday, or else this would already be a five-game losing streak.

Bad offense is bad right now. I don't know why a blown save should send all the hitters except for Konerko into a terrible spin. But that's what this team does.

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:45 PM
It sucks. Teams with lower payrolls can keep replacing non-producers until they find somebody that fits. The Sox just have to sit, wait, and hope for Rios, Pierre, Dunn, etc to figure it out.

No they don't

You cut the weakest link.

It's Pierre.

This organization, as Lip suggested a while back, is just too damn content with the **** that's on the field right now to do a damn thing to right the ship.

BainesHOF
06-17-2011, 11:46 PM
When is the last time a team dying on offense for months did not call up a hitter tearing it up in the minors?

cleanwsox
06-17-2011, 11:46 PM
No they don't

You cut the weakest link.

It's Pierre.

This organization, as Lip suggested a while back, is just too damn content with the **** that's on the field right now to do a damn thing to right the ship.

I wish they would, but they won't. And its all because of the $

DirtySox
06-17-2011, 11:47 PM
scottmerkin Scott Merkin
Lillibridge to lead off tomorrow against Duke. Morel to hit second, Ramirez to hit fifth and Castro catching, per Ozzie
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:48 PM
A blown save against Oakland led to a three-week slump before. Since Santos blew that game last Friday night, I think the offense has something like three hits with RISP over the last five games. Thank goodness Oakland's defense sucks and thank goodness Dunn happened to run into one with two on Sunday, or else this would already be a five-game losing streak.

Bad offense is bad right now. I don't know why a blown save should send all the hitters except for Konerko into a terrible spin. But that's what this team does.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2011/04/12/z2tvsRzE.jpg

It sure as hell ain't my fault! I'm a hitting coach. You're a fan. You have no idea what the job of an mlb hitting coach entails.

JermaineDye05
06-17-2011, 11:49 PM
scottmerkin Scott Merkin
Lillibridge to lead off tomorrow against Duke. Morel to hit second, Ramirez to hit fifth and Castro catching, per Ozzie
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Pierre to pack his bags?

JB98
06-17-2011, 11:50 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2011/04/12/z2tvsRzE.jpg

It sure as hell ain't my fault! I'm a hitting coach. You're a fan. You have no idea what the job of an mlb hitting coach entails.

Screw you, Walk. I don't care how "hard you work." Get some damn results, or there is the door.

thomas35forever
06-17-2011, 11:53 PM
Ozzie, get it through your head, Juan Pierre sucks. I'm not watching another game with him in the starting lineup.
That's where we as fans become suckers. We say we're not going to watch another game until one thing or another happens, but we always come crawling back. Until the base actually grows a pair and sends TV ratings spiraling out of control as well as attendance, this organization will not get the message.

Nelfox02
06-17-2011, 11:53 PM
but I thought we were supposed to be unstoppable in June? no more slumps...

ugh......what a bad/boring team......they are just dull. If they go down 2-3 runs early......well it is almost impossible to watch. There is just nothing really to those guys

painfully predictable......so easy to game plan against......it clearly is not working and yet everyday the Sox just do the same thing.

No accountablilty....this is what you get.

russ99
06-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Screw you, Walk. I don't care how "hard you work." Get some damn results, or there is the door.

3 years, different players, same results.

Please Jerry, kick him upstairs while there's still time to salvage the season.

BTW - nice power swing by Paulie in the first with 1-out and RISP. Maybe a new hitting coach will have these guys thinking at the plate rather than pulling everything and looking useless on every pitch other than a fastball.

Crestani
06-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Melton said, "You move up in the box on a sinker ball pitcher, at least we used to". "But they just sit there today and do the same thing over and overand that's pound the ball in the ground"! He even sounded frustrated and I have never heard Melton really frustrated before..!!

Dan H
06-17-2011, 11:55 PM
The complete game has almost become a thing of the past. But I wonder how many complete games have been thrown against the White Sox this year? It seems like opposition starters don't even work up a sweat against them.

hi im skot
06-17-2011, 11:56 PM
scottmerkin Scott Merkin
Lillibridge to lead off tomorrow against Duke. Morel to hit second, Ramirez to hit fifth and Castro catching, per Ozzie
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Throw some **** at the wall and hope it sticks...

A. Cavatica
06-17-2011, 11:57 PM
So one game determines the outcome of a trade?

No.

But Hudson and Jackson have pitched close to a full season since the trade. Hudson is 15-6 with an ERA under 3; Jackson is 8-8 and his ERA is a run higher.

Hudson's dirt cheap and Jackson costs $9 million a year.

Jackson will be gone at the trade deadline; Hudson looks like he'll be a mainstay of Arizona's rotation for years.

The throw-in we gave Arizona, David Holmberg, is a young lefty who's thrown 27 consecutive scoreless innings.

Game, set and match for the Diamondbacks.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Another day another game with three runs or less.

Folks, sorry to have to repeat this but JR said in the last two weeks to the media that he thinks both Kenny and Ozzie will be back next year.

Maybe something cataclysmic will happen to change his mind but you know how loyal he is and I've been told one of the last things he wants to do at his age is have to go through the process for a new general and / or field manager.

Lip

JB98
06-18-2011, 12:02 AM
3 years, different players, same results.

Please Jerry, kick him upstairs while there's still time to salvage the season.

BTW - nice power swing by Paulie in the first with 1-out and RISP. Maybe a new hitting coach will have these guys thinking at the plate rather than pulling everything and looking useless on every pitch other than a fastball.

Paul is hitting .320 this year. The pull approach works just fine for him, and I hope he never changes it. The other guys on this club, though, can't hit the way Paul does and need to do something else.

Paul hit two balls hard tonight. That's about the extent of it this evening. Konerko is the last person you should be ripping.

Tragg
06-18-2011, 12:04 AM
Jackson will be gone at the trade deadline; Hudson looks like he'll be a mainstay of Arizona's rotation for years.

The throw-in we gave Arizona, David Holmberg, is a young lefty who's thrown 27 consecutive scoreless innings.

Game, set and match for the Diamondbacks.
A pounding of a trade by the Diamondbacks.

And we'll have the same person who brought Jackson into town executing Jackson's trip out of town next month. Get ready for a B prospect (or a middle reliever) and an organizational minor leaguer.

thomas35forever
06-18-2011, 12:06 AM
A pounding of a trade by the Diamondbacks.

And we'll have the same person who brought Jackson into town executing Jackson's trip out of town next month. Get ready for a B prospect (or a middle reliever) and an organizational minor leaguer.
This is why people better not be ripping whoever we get in return for Jackson because I'm not expecting much.

BainesHOF
06-18-2011, 12:06 AM
Melton said, "You move up in the box on a sinker ball pitcher, at least we used to". "But they just sit there today and do the same thing over and overand that's pound the ball in the ground"! He even sounded frustrated and I have never heard Melton really frustrated before..!!

Yes, you could tell Melton's had it, too.

Comcast does a good job with its postgame show. It doesn't come across as Apologist Central like the one on the radio.

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 12:06 AM
Daniel Hudson is a joke. Didn't people see that he had 2 or 3 shaky starts for the Sox last year. He's only been good since the trade because he's facing weak/inferior NL teams.....oh, wait a minute.:angry:

Oh, and as if Hudson for Jackson wasn't bad enough, please note that KW also threw in minor leaguer David Holmberg in the deal to Arizona....and he's been looking great this year in the minors:
http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/17/2228505/underneath-jackson-hudson-matchup-holmberg-thriving

Jackson: 10:$4.2M, 11:$8.35M, Status after '11: free agent, Agent: Scott Boras

Hudson: 11:$0.419M, Arb Eligible: 2013, Free Agent: 2016

Kenny Williams = pwnd.

JermaineDye05
06-18-2011, 12:07 AM
A pounding of a trade by the Diamondbacks.

And we'll have the same person who brought Jackson into town executing Jackson's trip out of town next month. Get ready for a B prospect (or a middle reliever) and an organizational minor leaguer.

I'm still not ready to turn on Kenny. He did get us Humber.

Tragg
06-18-2011, 12:08 AM
This is why people better not be ripping whoever we get in return for Jackson because I'm not expecting much.
I'm not expecting much because I have no faith in the GM. But 1/2 year rents of a player of his ability have brought decent prospects.
I still remember all the players people want to give for 1/2 a year of Jackson's clone 6 years ago: AJ Burnett.
I think we ought to trade Viciedo too - for other prospects. We're stuck with Dunn for a few years, and we don't need 2 DHs. I infer from Daver's posts that the Sox have that idea in mind (although I doubt it's for prospects - veterans, more likely).

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 12:10 AM
....oh and, by the way, this team looks like dead meat out there.

Time for Ozzie to insult the fans or tell them to shut up.:rolleyes: That'll light a fire under the team....and sell more tickets.

thomas35forever
06-18-2011, 12:11 AM
I'm still not ready to turn on Kenny. He did get us Humber.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2011, 12:11 AM
Crestani:

Melton has gotten pissed before although it doesn't happen often. First time I can remember is when the Sox were handled by some no-name garbage pitcher in Texas in, I think, 2003. Melton was furious on the postgame (and coincidentally that game seemed to start the trend where they can't perform against pitchers they've never seen before / junkballers / no-name pitchers)

Lip

Tragg
06-18-2011, 12:13 AM
I'm still not ready to turn on Kenny. He did get us Humber.

That's what he's so good at...pitchers off of the scrap-heap, failed prospects, small trades. But when he tries to do a bigger deal, the results at his peak were mixed and recently, disasterous.

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 12:15 AM
A pounding of a trade by the Diamondbacks.

And we'll have the same person who brought Jackson into town executing Jackson's trip out of town next month. Get ready for a B prospect (or a middle reliever) and an organizational minor leaguer.

This might rival how Kenny gave away Sweeney and Gio for 1 year of Swisher and then ended up swapping Swisher for Betemit, Marquez, and Nunez.
:puking:

thomas35forever
06-18-2011, 12:17 AM
This might rival how Kenny gave away Sweeney and Gio for 1 year of Swisher and then ended up swapping Swisher for Betemit, Marquez, and Nunez.
:puking:
At least Marquez returned to whence he came.

Tragg
06-18-2011, 12:18 AM
This might rival how Kenny gave away Sweeney and Gio for 1 year of Swisher and then ended up swapping Swisher for Betemit, Marquez, and Nunez.
:puking:
He received 1/5 of what he gave up in that trade.....a couple of mediocre AAA prospects. And don't forget, we threw in a minor league pitcher to the Yankees.
All 3 of those players (those plus DLS) remain with Oakland although only Gio at this point is a real major league contributor.

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 12:19 AM
He received 1/5 of what he gave up in that trade.....a couple of mediocre AAA prospects. And don't forget, we threw in a minor league pitcher to the Yankees.
All 3 of those players (those plus DLS) remain with Oakland although only Gio at this point is a real major league contributor.

Ryan Sweeney hasn't been that bad, no?

Tragg
06-18-2011, 12:27 AM
Ryan Sweeney hasn't been that bad, no?

You're right - he's okay. Certainly gives more production than Pierre, at a far less cost. But after 49 at bats in 2007, Oz had seen enough and penciled in Jerry Owens for the rest of the year.

HarryChappas
06-18-2011, 12:35 AM
"The horror of it all"

KRS1
06-18-2011, 12:45 AM
Well, that was a waste of a trip to the ball park. At least I got to confirm in person what I whole-heartedly believed since the deal was made.

cards press box
06-18-2011, 01:26 AM
As much as I like Daniel Hudson, I can't honestly say that he pitched great tonight. Our offense is so bad right now that it's possible that we just made him look good.

Fair point. Yesterday, the Sox made Nick Blackburn look like Greg Maddux in his prime.

scottmerkin Scott Merkin
Lillibridge to lead off tomorrow against Duke. Morel to hit second, Ramirez to hit fifth and Castro catching, per Ozzie
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

This is a good change. Ramirez should be in the middle of the order as he is an RBI man and not a number two hitter at all. But Morel is. If Lillibridge can get on, Morel has that opposite field swing and can certainly hit behind the runner.

Pierre to pack his bags?

Maybe so or maybe KW can find a way to deal Teahen. After all, KW did trade Linebrink. Given the poor and often inconsistent performance of this offense, I can't imagine that Viciedo will stay in Charlotte very much longer.

Hudson and Jackson have pitched close to a full season since the trade. Hudson is 15-6 with an ERA under 3; Jackson is 8-8 and his ERA is a run higher. . . Game, set and match for the Diamondbacks.

That is probably true but I would point out two things:

1. We can't really judge the deal until we see whether KW moves Jackson before the deadline. Let's say, for example, KW deals Jackson to the Yankees within the next month. Wouldn't you have to consider what the Sox get in return before condemning KW for the initial deal. And what if Jackson stays and leaves as a free agent after declining an arbitration offer? The Sox could be looking at two extra draft picks in that case.

2. Not every deal is a winner. How do you think the D'backs view the Carlos Quentin trade? This year, Quentin is on his way to 35-40 homers, around 100 RBI and a .270 average. And who did the D'backs get for him? Chris Carter who has had a hard time getting out of AAA for the A's. With trades, you have to take the bad with the good. Every GM lays an egg occasionally. And as I said, I want to see what return the Sox can get for Jackson after Jake Peavy returns before completely condemning the Hudson/Jackson swap.

Nellie_Fox
06-18-2011, 01:32 AM
...what if Jackson stays and leaves as a free agent after declining an arbitration offer? The Sox could be looking at two extra draft picks in that case.I don't know how they make the determination, but I'd be surprised if Jackson is a type A free agent.

DirtySox
06-18-2011, 01:48 AM
I don't know how they make the determination, but I'd be surprised if Jackson is a type A free agent.

So would I. He's sitting in the lower portion of Type B's last I checked.

voodoochile
06-18-2011, 01:50 AM
Any questions?

Just one...

Why is it tonight that it's because Hudson is great but every other time the Sox got shut down recently it's because their offense sucks?

Not trolling...

Well, just a little bit...:tongue:

StillMissOzzie
06-18-2011, 01:54 AM
Jackson:10:$4.2M, 11:$8.35M, Status after '11: free agent, Agent: Scott Boras

There is all the information you need to know that Jackson won't be here next season, and perhaps even earlier if the Sox are sellers at the trade deadline.

SMO
:gulp:

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2011, 02:46 AM
You're right - he's okay. Certainly gives more production than Pierre, at a far less cost. But after 49 at bats in 2007, Oz had seen enough and penciled in Jerry Owens for the rest of the year.

It wasn't JUST Ozzie, Kenny was high on Owens too and at one point around Soxfest of 2008 said that Owens was our leadoff man for the foreseeable future. Then he got hurt in spring training and Swisher became the leadoff man.

LITTLE NELL
06-18-2011, 05:27 AM
The Hitless Wonders--Part 3.
These guys make the 1906 and 1967 Sox look like Murderer's Row, the difference being that those teams knew how to win.

cws05champ
06-18-2011, 07:45 AM
Another day another game with three runs or less.

Folks, sorry to have to repeat this but JR said in the last two weeks to the media that he thinks both Kenny and Ozzie will be back next year.

Maybe something cataclysmic will happen to change his mind but you know how loyal he is and I've been told one of the last things he wants to do at his age is have to go through the process for a new general and / or field manager.

Lip

But, but, but.....Jackson has better stuff.

tstrike2000
06-18-2011, 08:48 AM
I'm still not ready to turn on Kenny. He did get us Humber.

The age old subject that you could talk about all night. He got us Humber, who's surprised us, but we're also stuck with Ozzie, Walker, Pierre, Rios, owe a hefty sum for 3.5 more years for Dunn, and traded away Gio and Hudson, etc, etc.

Dick Allen
06-18-2011, 08:49 AM
The main difference between Jackson and Hudson last night was that Jackson didn't get to face the Sox' lineup.

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 09:02 AM
Starting to look more and more like 2007- we're just one or two injuries away with our lack of depth- what a weird collection of various, high priced parts that don't really fit together.

This team is going nowhere- other than Lillibridge- there's no real "spark" anywhere on this team- Pierre is washed up and could not start for any contender in baseball, not one- Rios is sleepwalking through the year, Quentin is as inconsistent as ever, Morel is a struggling rookie, Alexei seems to be regressing, Beckham's long swing is still a very long swing, Dunn didn't want to be a DH, now we know why, we signed AJ to one too many contracts.

But we DO have Paulie.

KW wasting $54M on the ultimate, one dimensional DH (sometime- years ago- the White Sox were going to have speed, defense, etc.) because there is NO organizational philosophy.

We can add the 2011 Pierre situation to the 2006- Mackowiak is a CF!, or the 2007, Erstad can still play! legacy. Last Saturday night- Lillibridge drew 2 walks, stole a base, scored the winning run, and robbed the A's of a home run with a dramatic leaping catch. He hasn't started since on this huge pile of **** KW and OG built.

We were lucky to win the Mariners and A's series- since they gave away alot of runs in those two series- if it wasn't for the gifts from the Athletics- we'd be sitting in last place right now.

Last ****ing place.

cws05champ
06-18-2011, 09:05 AM
...and the Twins are only 2.5 games back of us now.

Dibbs
06-18-2011, 09:09 AM
OK, is there still people defending that trade? The whole theory behind that trade never made sense anyway. You don't trust Hudson in a pennant race, but you trust Edwin Jackson in a pennant race? Craziness, stupidity, just a bad trade that can set a franchise back. You need effective young players who make low salary unless you are the Yankees.

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 09:13 AM
OK, is there still people defending that trade? The whole theory behind that trade never made sense anyway. You don't trust Hudson in a pennant race, but you trust Edwin Jackson in a pennant race? Craziness, stupidity, just a bad trade that can set a franchise back. You need effective young players who make low salary unless you are the Yankees.

Gio Gonzales, Clayton Richard and Dan Hudson gone for Swisher, Peavy and Jackson- ugh.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-18-2011, 09:16 AM
In addition to the angst of the trade, I hate the fact that Ozzie didn't let Dunn play LF last night considering Pierre sucks and Dunn has 15 HR in 161 AB at Chase Field.

SI1020
06-18-2011, 09:50 AM
Gio Gonzales, Clayton Richard and Dan Hudson gone for Swisher, Peavy and Jackson- ugh. It's a hard punch to the solar plexus.

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 10:22 AM
Question about last night's game conditions. I saw in the box score that the game temp was 103 degrees.

Is that right? I thought Chase Field had a retractable roof so that the place can be enclosed and air conditioned on hot days.:scratch:

DirtySox
06-18-2011, 10:22 AM
Question about last night's game conditions. I saw in the box score that the game temp was 103 degrees.

Is that right? I thought Chase Field had a retractable roof so that the place can be enclosed and air conditioned on hot days.:scratch:

One of the beat guys on twitter said it was 103 outside, but 79 within the park.

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
...and the Twins are only 2.5 games back of us now.

We played the Twins when they were hot, we're facing the D-backs when they were hot......and don't look now, but the Flubs are suddenly playing well - just in time for us to face them.

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 10:24 AM
One of the beat guys on twitter said it was 103 outside, but 79 within the park.

Thanks for the clarification.

russ99
06-18-2011, 10:38 AM
You're right - he's okay. Certainly gives more production than Pierre, at a far less cost. But after 49 at bats in 2007, Oz had seen enough and penciled in Jerry Owens for the rest of the year.

What a joke:

Sweeney's run totals the last 3 years:
68, 42, 15

Pierre's
57 (half season), 96, 31

Ryan Sweeney wishes he were half the player Juan Pierre is, even with Juan having an awful April and June (so far)

hawkjt
06-18-2011, 12:13 PM
My eyes are bleeding after watching the Sox offense the last three games..
Glad to see Ozzie moving AJ out of the 5th spot..oh wait,it is Ramon's day to play. Still, AJ is just not a clutch rbi guy...it is like he gets totally anxious and wants his at bats over ASAP whenever there are ducks on the pond.
Alex Rios is far worse than Pierre,imo. He makes twice the money and hits .200? Pierre had one third of the total hits last nite,and he is the biggest problem? He is part of the problem,but Rios,Gordo,Dunn,ect are all just as big a problem.

I cannot understand how this team goes into these collective funks...all together now...no hits!!!
Still,5.5 games back, get hot,and turn this around,please!

JB98
06-18-2011, 12:50 PM
OK, is there still people defending that trade? The whole theory behind that trade never made sense anyway. You don't trust Hudson in a pennant race, but you trust Edwin Jackson in a pennant race? Craziness, stupidity, just a bad trade that can set a franchise back. You need effective young players who make low salary unless you are the Yankees.

Trading Gio for Swisher was about 4 million times worse.

Brian26
06-18-2011, 12:55 PM
What a joke:

Sweeney's run totals the last 3 years:
68, 42, 15

Pierre's
57 (half season), 96, 31

Ryan Sweeney wishes he were half the player Juan Pierre is, even with Juan having an awful April and June (so far)

Run totals are not an accurate measure of a player's production. The Sox, and Dodgers before them, had more capable hitters behind Pierre to knock him in.

I'd look at OBP and OPS. Sweeney smokes Pierre in OPS over the past four years except in 2009 when they were about equal. Pierre's numbers are on the decline. This should not even be an argument.

doublem23
06-18-2011, 12:59 PM
Run totals are not an accurate measure of a player's production. The Sox, and Dodgers before them, had more capable hitters behind Pierre to knock him in.

I'd look at OBP and OPS. Sweeney smokes Pierre in OPS over the past four years except in 2009 when they were about equal. Pierre's numbers are on the decline. This should not even be an argument.

It's not really an argument when only 1 person in 14,000 sees it a certain way.

JB98
06-18-2011, 01:05 PM
It's not really an argument when only 1 person in 14,000 sees it a certain way.

What's really hysterical is that one person believes there is a "witch hunt" against Juan Pierre.

I've spent about 20 minutes on this site this afternoon, and I've seen people rip KW, OG, Walker, Cora, Pierre, Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Jackson, etc., etc.

Evidently, there's a "witch hunt" against everyone except Konerko, as far as I can tell. Plenty of blame to go around. Plenty of frustration around here, and understandably so.

JermaineDye05
06-18-2011, 01:13 PM
What's really hysterical is that one person believes there is a "witch hunt" against Juan Pierre.

I've spent about 20 minutes on this site this afternoon, and I've seen people rip KW, OG, Walker, Cora, Pierre, Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Jackson, etc., etc.

Evidently, there's a "witch hunt" against everyone except Konerko, as far as I can tell. Plenty of blame to go around. Plenty of frustration around here, and understandably so.

Well, Juan Pierre did turn me into a newt.

tstrike2000
06-18-2011, 01:14 PM
The main difference between Jackson and Hudson last night was that Jackson didn't get to face the Sox' lineup.

And over 50% of the time, he's just not a good pitcher.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-18-2011, 01:25 PM
Fun Fact of the day:

Daniel Hudson has a higher OPS this year than Juan Pierre and Alex Rios.

hi im skot
06-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Fun Fact of the day:

Daniel Hudson has a higher OPS this year than Juan Pierre and Alex Rios.

Sample size be damned!

PaleHoser
06-18-2011, 01:35 PM
Gio Gonzales, Clayton Richard and Dan Hudson gone for Swisher, Peavy and Jackson- ugh.

On the upside, I guess it means that we're finally capable of developing some talent that can stick at the major league level.

Tragg
06-18-2011, 02:07 PM
Trading Gio for Swisher was about 4 million times worse.

Well, in both trades Williams felt compelled to overpay. But here, we traded for a pitcher with an ERA of over 5 to a dead team looking to rid salary...and we threw an extra pitching prospect.

the 2nd Swisher trade is also galling, as Williams gave 3 legit prospects for him, he got 0 legitimate prospects in return (Marquez looked like he might be a decent middle reliever - that's about it). Swisher came off of a bad year, but still it was ridiculous.
Poor scouting, no patience with young players....

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 03:30 PM
What a joke:

Sweeney's run totals the last 3 years:
68, 42, 15

Pierre's
57 (half season), 96, 31

Ryan Sweeney wishes he were half the player Juan Pierre is, even with Juan having an awful April and June (so far)

Runs scored as the key metric?- that is an incredible reach.

Why would Pierre's 2009 be qualified as a "half season" when he played in 145 games, but no "qualifier" for Sweeney when his games played in 2009 was 134 (less than Pierre's "half season"), and was only 82 last year?

Sweeney has a .360 OPB vs. Pierre's .318- I'd rather have Sweeney in LF this year than Pierre.

Brian26
06-18-2011, 03:58 PM
Why would Pierre's 2009 be qualified as a "half season" when he played in 145 games, but no "qualifier" for Sweeney when his games played in 2009 was 134 (less than Pierre's "half season"), and was only 82 last year?

To be fair on this one, Pierre was relegated to the bench in 2009 after the Dodgers picked up Manny. I recall he came in for defensive purposes (ha) late in games many times. If you compare plate appearances between Sweeney and Pierre, you'll see Sweeney with over 100 more PAs than Pierre in the 11 less games.

russ99
06-18-2011, 04:00 PM
Runs scored as the key metric?- that is an incredible reach.

Why would Pierre's 2009 be qualified as a "half season" when he played in 145 games, but no "qualifier" for Sweeney when his games played in 2009 was 134 (less than Pierre's "half season"), and was only 82 last year?

Sweeney has a .360 OPB vs. Pierre's .318- I'd rather have Sweeney in LF this year than Pierre.

A reach? That's the ultimate value of a leadoff hitter, how many runs he scores. What about stolen bases, need I compare that as well?

Run totals are not an accurate measure of a player's production. The Sox, and Dodgers before them, had more capable hitters behind Pierre to knock him in.

I'd look at OBP and OPS. Sweeney smokes Pierre in OPS over the past four years except in 2009 when they were about equal. Pierre's numbers are on the decline. This should not even be an argument.

OPS is useless for comparing leadoff hitters. Sweeney has more career homers, thus a higher OPS. He averages 5 per season, Pierre 1 per season. Thus Sweeney has a built in 20 total base advantage solely on home runs, which leadoff hitters shouldn't be judged by.

Sweeney's batting average and OBP is comparable with Pierre's except for this season.

Bottom line - If Sweeney is so good, how come he's a bench player for the A's?

slavko
06-18-2011, 04:04 PM
Trading Gio for Swisher was about 4 million times worse.

Worse than this one? Maybe, never thought I'd see it again. (Steve Sax)

January 10, 1992: Traded by the New York Yankees (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1992.shtml) to the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1992.shtml) for Domingo Jean (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeando01.shtml), Melido Perez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezme01.shtml) and Bob Wickman (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wickmbo01.shtml).
April 21, 1994: Released by the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1994.shtml).

Lot of good posts in this thread. At least we haven't lost our sense of humor. I knew there was a way to have fun with this dog of a season rapidly turning into a kennel.

I tell you, KW is lucky he has built up goodwill with JR, because if the team changes ownership, he is so gone all memory of him will be erased.

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 04:17 PM
A reach? That's the ultimate value of a leadoff hitter, how many runs he scores. What about stolen bases, need I compare that as well?



OPS is useless for comparing leadoff hitters. Sweeney has more career homers, thus a higher OPS. He averages 5 per season, Pierre 1 per season. Thus Sweeney has a built in 20 total base advantage solely on home runs, which leadoff hitters shouldn't be judged by.

Sweeney's batting average and OBP is comparable with Pierre's except for this season.

Bottom line - If Sweeney is so good, how come he's a bench player for the A's?

C'mon- do you truly believe your own logic? The player controls his OBP- what happens after that is dependent on the hitter behind him in the line up.

The fact that you'd call a 135 game season for Pierre a "half season" when not doing the same for Sweeney's 82 game season last season makes the whole logic ridiculous.

It's NOT that Sweeney is so good- he's just better than Pierre- who would not be a starting outfielder on ANY other major league team. If you disagree- please name one team, especially a contender, where Pierre would be a starting left fielder.

JB98
06-18-2011, 04:22 PM
Worse than this one? Maybe, never thought I'd see it again. (Steve Sax)

January 10, 1992: Traded by the New York Yankees (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1992.shtml) to the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1992.shtml) for Domingo Jean (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeando01.shtml), Melido Perez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezme01.shtml) and Bob Wickman (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wickmbo01.shtml).
April 21, 1994: Released by the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1994.shtml).

Lot of good posts in this thread. At least we haven't lost our sense of humor. I knew there was a way to have fun with this dog of a season rapidly turning into a kennel.

I tell you, KW is lucky he has built up goodwill with JR, because if the team changes ownership, he is so gone all memory of him will be erased.

Heh, heh, heh, I've repressed all memories of Steve Sax in a White Sox uniform. I do remember that Melido Perez once pitched a rain-shortened no-hitter for the White Sox. :D:

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 04:27 PM
Heh, heh, heh, I've repressed all memories of Steve Sax in a White Sox uniform. I do remember that Melido Perez once pitched a rain-shortened no-hitter for the White Sox. :D:

Sax in the outfield made for some memorable highlights/lowlights.

His stint was analogous to Pierre- high priced veteran at the end of his career- keep trotting him out there.

kittle42
06-18-2011, 04:59 PM
Gio Gonzales, Clayton Richard and Dan Hudson gone for Swisher, Peavy and Jackson- ugh.

Boy, that really does look good at first blush, though - too bad it turned out the complete opposite.

kittle42
06-18-2011, 05:02 PM
A reach? That's the ultimate value of a leadoff hitter, how many runs he scores. What about stolen bases, need I compare that as well?



OPS is useless for comparing leadoff hitters. Sweeney has more career homers, thus a higher OPS. He averages 5 per season, Pierre 1 per season. Thus Sweeney has a built in 20 total base advantage solely on home runs, which leadoff hitters shouldn't be judged by.

Sweeney's batting average and OBP is comparable with Pierre's except for this season.

Bottom line - If Sweeney is so good, how come he's a bench player for the A's?

You are just all over the joint. Sweeney is not good. No one said he is. Pierre should also be a bench player for the A's. We should be so lucky.

Runs are the measure of no one.

I have nothing against Juan Pierre, but you are singlehandedly moving him up my chart of personal least favorite Sox players.:)

balke
06-18-2011, 06:58 PM
A reach? That's the ultimate value of a leadoff hitter, how many runs he scores. What about stolen bases, need I compare that as well?



OPS is useless for comparing leadoff hitters. Sweeney has more career homers, thus a higher OPS. He averages 5 per season, Pierre 1 per season. Thus Sweeney has a built in 20 total base advantage solely on home runs, which leadoff hitters shouldn't be judged by.

Sweeney's batting average and OBP is comparable with Pierre's except for this season.

Bottom line - If Sweeney is so good, how come he's a bench player for the A's?

OPS is my favorite stat ever. OPS is why Swisher and Dunn were brought here.

JermaineDye05
06-18-2011, 07:14 PM
OPS is my favorite stat ever. OPS is why Swisher and Dunn were brought here.

Yeah, I'm sure Dunn's consistency with hitting 40+ HR and driving in 100 RBI each year had nothing to do with his contract.

:rolleyes:

Brian26
06-18-2011, 08:47 PM
OPS is useless for comparing leadoff hitters.

Who is comparing leadoff hitters? I thought we were just comparing Juan Pierre vs. Ryan Sweeney as OFs. I've seen Sweeney batting 2nd and 3rd in the A's lineup over the past two years.

balke
06-18-2011, 09:32 PM
Yeah, I'm sure Dunn's consistency with hitting 40+ HR and driving in 100 RBI each year had nothing to do with his contract.

:rolleyes:

Sox are a team built on OPS and power. Instead of finding traditional .300 avg hitters with 30+ hr power - they salivate over the 40 hr potential guy with a high OPS.

Strikeout all you want as long as you can get on base for the guy behind you - who by the way also strikes out a ton and doesn't hit for average. Walker's bad rep is partially linked to this assembled lineup.

Looks great on paper to have the big boppers - too bad they hit solo shots and strikeout/groundout/walk with runners on 3rd and 1 out.

Id like to see viciedo's bat connected to a decent glove for this team. PK can't be the only .275+ power hitter.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Balke:

The Sox were spoiled in the early part of the new century, had a lot of guys who hit for a good average, plus a lot of home runs plus a lot of RBI's...those don't come along every day.

Lip

balke
06-19-2011, 12:33 AM
Balke:

The Sox were spoiled in the early part of the new century, had a lot of guys who hit for a good average, plus a lot of home runs plus a lot of RBI's...those don't come along every day.

Lip

120 million dollars.

A spare pitcher - an overrated 2Bman 2 relievers - and a powerful RFer. Viciedo in the minors. Plenty to trade for a good player to pair with Konerko. Would've preferred Viciedo at DH for avg to this career .250 slob with ops