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ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 10:58 PM
I am so tired of watching this stuff. . . I implore the organization to DO SOMETHING to show that you care half as much as the fans do. . . fire somebody, release somebody. Just do something to show that you are concerned with the season and that you are trying to make it better. . PLEASE!!!

hi im skot
06-17-2011, 10:58 PM
I'll be sure to forward this along to KW in the morning.

ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 11:00 PM
Thanks - if anybody knows somebody in the front office, please let them know we ARE MAD AS HELL AND CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChiSoxGal85
06-17-2011, 11:01 PM
:thumbsup: Nearly every facet of this team is failing to do the job right now, except maybe Paulie. It's horribly painful to watch.

Shake it UP!

ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 11:04 PM
Exactly. . do something to show there is someone paying attention and to get the rest of the team's attention!

ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 11:05 PM
I literally cannot watch this anymore. . .

Daver
06-17-2011, 11:07 PM
They hired Robin Ventura, what more do you want?

ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Well, we do have 3 hits against a guy who was in our organization for about five years, so that is something I guess. . .

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:15 PM
They trot out Juan Pierre and Alex Rios every night while their offense has been impotent yet they leave Viciedo to rake down in Charlotte because our poor excuse for a manager can't figure out where he would play him.

They watch Rios and his ridiculous batting stance and Beckham with his horrible swing night after night yet are happy with the job Greg Walker is doing.

I hope JR enjoys watching the Cubs sweep the Sox in front of average attendance of about 25,000 at the Cell next week.

ohiosoxfan
06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
almost feel like its time for a boycott. . don't buy a ticket, don't spend a dime on Sox stuff until they take notice and DO SOMETHING to improve this product and placate the fans who are responsible for the ability of these guys to make millions of bucks.

Brian26
06-17-2011, 11:22 PM
I literally cannot watch this anymore. . .

Literally? Really, like, you stabbed yourself in the eyes?

thomas35forever
06-17-2011, 11:23 PM
I hope JR enjoys watching the Cubs sweep the Sox in front of average attendance of about 25,000 at the Cell next week.
If you think only 25,000 are going to show up for a crosstown series, you really need to reevaluate the economics of baseball in Chicago. All of those games are going to sell out no matter what. The Cubs aren't so hot either, but they're playing better than us of late. Who knows? Maybe we'll be outnumbered in our own park.

JB98
06-17-2011, 11:34 PM
If you think only 25,000 are going to show up for a crosstown series, you really need to reevaluate the economics of baseball in Chicago. All of those games are going to sell out no matter what. The Cubs aren't so hot either, but they're playing better than us of late. Who knows? Maybe we'll be outnumbered in our own park.

The casual fans will be out. They think it is a "big" series, although the baseball will be garbage.

BainesHOF
06-17-2011, 11:37 PM
As tough as it is to watch, I can live with Dunn and Rios having bad years and other players struggling. That can be baseball.

What I can't tolerate is that no changes have been made anywhere. It makes no sense. It smacks of stupidity and arrogance. I'm not spending any money on this team.

DickAllen72
06-17-2011, 11:37 PM
The casual fans will be out. They think it is a "big" series, although the baseball will be garbage.
After the Cubs beat the Sox, the Cubs fans will piss all over the statues and Ozzie will blame in on the few Sox fans in attendance.

Falstaff
06-17-2011, 11:40 PM
"If nothing changes.....nothing changes."
(Slogan from AA level organization, seems appropriate here.)

Dan H
06-17-2011, 11:49 PM
I agree with the title of this thread. It is very possible the team will stay bad no matter what changes are made. But to do nothing would be the ultimate act of denial.

russ99
06-17-2011, 11:51 PM
Still waiting for Kenny to make a move, any move.

All we've done with the roster this year is DL moves.

thomas35forever
06-17-2011, 11:58 PM
The casual fans will be out. They think it is a "big" series, although the baseball will be garbage.
That's my point. Those fans of whoever wins the series will think their team is better because they have possession of a cup that's not worth giving a crap at all, especially since it's sponsored by a company that's still not favorable with the public right now. I really hate reading the pregame and postgame comments submitted by CSN viewers. It really brings out the stupidity in both fan bases.

Vernam
06-18-2011, 12:13 AM
Thank god we don't have that ****ty Daniel Hudson anymore. I can't stand young pitchers who make about the MLB minimum salary but pitch like veterans. Much better to have older ones making $8M to $16M per year, even if they can't throw strikes or stay off the disabled list. Yes, good riddance to guys like Hudson and Clayton Richard. **** both those guys. It's not like we could've used all that money to pick up a legitimate lead-off man, a center fielder, a catcher who can throw out base runners, or a proven closer. Any one of those would have cost more than $24M per year, right?

Vernam

A. Cavatica
06-18-2011, 12:14 AM
Don't just do something, fire someone. Hopefully multiple someones.

Start with Kenny, Ozzie, Walker, Cora, Baines, Cox.

The new manager can make these guys worry about their jobs, or at least their playing time.

The new GM can start trying to unload the likes of Dunn, Pierre, Rios, Teahen, Pierzynski, Jackson, Floyd, Pena, & Ohman.

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 12:18 AM
I am so tired of watching this stuff. . . I implore the organization to DO SOMETHING to show that you care half as much as the fans do. . . fire somebody, release somebody. Just do something to show that you are concerned with the season and that you are trying to make it better. . PLEASE!!!

:ozzie
Shut up and go piss on a statue!

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 12:18 AM
Thank god we don't have that ****ty Daniel Hudson anymore. I can't stand young pitchers who make about the MLB minimum salary but pitch like veterans. Much better to have older ones making $8M to $16M per year, even if they can't throw strikes or stay off the disabled list. Yes, good riddance to guys like Hudson and Clayton Richard. **** both those guys. It's not like we could've used all that money to pick up a legitimate lead-off man, a center fielder, a catcher who can throw out base runners, or a proven closer. Any one of those would have cost more than $24M per year, right?

Vernam

Hudson is only doing good because he's facing crappy NL teams.

A. Cavatica
06-18-2011, 12:19 AM
When Ozzie departs, I hope Jerry commissions a statue of him.

pmck003
06-18-2011, 01:10 AM
Math isn't hard: Unfourtunately Pierre, Dunn, Beckham, and Rios haven't helped the team at all, and then there's a pretty bad bullpen that's blown 5-8 games? I think this is ozzie's best year to be honest; half your team sucks and your still in the race at this point?

Edit: To clarify; I give ozzie credit for discovering Santos, and that he has still given Pierre and other veterans enough time to prove themselves, yet hopefully Dayan comes up soon. (I can't capitalize "o"'s or I would capitalize ozzie, my comp is messed up). Hard to say why this team has a chance seeing the numbers outside PK and the starters. Looks like oakland...

Crooked Number
06-18-2011, 01:11 AM
Everything that can be discussed, analyzed and postulated has been done around here. There is simply nothing left to say. There is no more need to rehash the same horse**** every single day.

This is this team, for better or worse. It's just what the fanbase is going to have to deal with, and that is that. How many more times can it be said:

a) Pierre is washed up, this is not up for debate anymore.
b) Rios is a ghost. I blink during his at bats and he is already in the dugout.
c) Offense is non existent. It will break out for 8 to 12 runs for one or two games every two weeks and then go into F 117 stealth mode. Completely off the radar
d) Fundamentally, this team cannot do anything right. Even pitch outs. Tonight there was a pitch out on a 0-1 count. Even Stone had a chuckle with that one "the vaunted 0-1 count, the one you steal on" or something to that effect.

There are two constants / positives this season. For the most part the starting pitching has been good to great. And two, Paul Konerko. It's going to be a bitter pill knowing that this team will most likely waste the best season of his career.

The most agonizing thing to take will be that once again an easily winnable division will slip away. Just can't believe that this organization can't field a winning team, with this payroll, during this trend of subpar AL Central baseball the last few seasons. It's embarrassing. It's even worse knowing as a fan that changes will not be made.

My list only goes to d) , but due to time constraits i didnt feel like going all the way to z. This team is going no where fast. It's sad. Please make some changes. It will show the fanbase that you give a ****. I agree with the thread title. The new motto for the rest of this year should be:

DO SOMETHING

StillMissOzzie
06-18-2011, 01:31 AM
They hired Robin Ventura, what more do you want?

Results? I know, *** was I thinking?

Back to the OP comments: I feel your pain. I want to see SOME kinds of life, some passion, doing something just for the sake of doing something. A wise person (Einstein?) once said that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I am reduced to hoping for a really stupid, futile gesture on SOMEBODY's part (to parphrase some more wise men) - another KW table-tip, Ozzie going bat**** crazy baiting an umpire to get thrown out of a game (which would get him away from watching this crap), a sacrificial lamb firing, calling up Viciedo, benching some non-performing deadwood - anything that would show that the status quo is unacceptable.

And in a related vein, I am sick and tire of hearing Farmer on the radio spouting the party line - "Oh, they're GONNA hit. And when they do, watch out!" Ed, the season is at least 40% over. Stop saying that!

SMO
:scratch:

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-18-2011, 01:39 AM
As tough as it is to watch, I can live with Dunn and Rios having bad years and other players struggling. That can be baseball.

What I can't tolerate is that no changes have been made anywhere. It makes no sense. It smacks of stupidity and arrogance. I'm not spending any money on this team.

This is right on. I can understand a guy here and there can have a bad year, but the fact nothing has changed to show that someone is just slightly concerned is distressful.

Sox
06-18-2011, 08:46 AM
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Sox front office once again for fielding a division winner of a team again this year. :rolleyes: Also I would like to thank Ozzie for being flexible enough to platoon players to try and kick-start some semblance of an offense too. Ugh!! It pains me to even think or write about this stuff.

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 09:09 AM
Math isn't hard: Unfourtunately Pierre, Dunn, Beckham, and Rios haven't helped the team at all, and then there's a pretty bad bullpen that's blown 5-8 games? I think this is ozzie's best year to be honest; half your team sucks and your still in the race at this point?

Edit: To clarify; I give ozzie credit for discovering Santos, and that he has still given Pierre and other veterans enough time to prove themselves, yet hopefully Dayan comes up soon. (I can't capitalize "o"'s or I would capitalize ozzie, my comp is messed up). Hard to say why this team has a chance seeing the numbers outside PK and the starters. Looks like oakland...

What makes you think we're in the race?

We have the 5th worst record in the AL, and we're one game out of last place in the loss column.

Sox
06-18-2011, 09:19 AM
What makes you think we're in the race?

We have the 5th worst record in the AL, and we're one game out of last place in the loss column.

Gives the Sox something to shoot for doesn't it? Only if winning the division were for last place teams of course. I agree with you completely. Unless something changes we have the rest of the season to look forward to more of what we have already seen from the Sox.

Tragg
06-18-2011, 09:54 AM
I'm not terribly interested in making scapegoat moves (such as firing Walker, while keeping Cora and Guillen and Williams). I'd like to see them start to work on shipping out players, while not completely giving up, considering the division is wretched.
Try to trade one of the 6 starters; and then trade Viciedo for a MLB read outfielder to a team that needs more of a DH type. (we're stuck with Dunn - don't need 2 DHs).
And don't worry about trading with the AL in the middle of the season for goodness sakes. If the Yankees offer something good, make the deal.
Williams needs to get back on his game, because he's been way off on trades for 3 years.
If we're not careful, we'll be the Astros soon.

TommyJohn
06-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Thank god we don't have that ****ty Daniel Hudson anymore. I can't stand young pitchers who make about the MLB minimum salary but pitch like veterans. Much better to have older ones making $8M to $16M per year, even if they can't throw strikes or stay off the disabled list. Yes, good riddance to guys like Hudson and Clayton Richard. **** both those guys. It's not like we could've used all that money to pick up a legitimate lead-off man, a center fielder, a catcher who can throw out base runners, or a proven closer. Any one of those would have cost more than $24M per year, right?

Vernam

I love this. I love it! For years the Sox refused to trade kid pitchers for vets, and there bitching and moaning. For years Reinsdorf wouldn't open the purse strings because he was "cheap." Now they get rid of the kids for vets and go out and get that expensive talent. And what happens? Why, more bitching and moaning about getting rid of talented youngsters for expensive veterans. I love it.

Dan H
06-18-2011, 10:39 AM
I think the only way the 2011 season will be saved is when the underachievers turn their years around. Making some other changes might help but this team is what it is. And things don't look good.

I am more concerned about the field management and the front office coming to some kind of agreement on how to return the club to contending form in the long run. People don't have to like each other; they just have to form a consensus on what is going to help the team. They should be contending in this division and they are not.

southside rocks
06-18-2011, 11:06 AM
almost feel like its time for a boycott. . don't buy a ticket, don't spend a dime on Sox stuff until they take notice and DO SOMETHING to improve this product and placate the fans who are responsible for the ability of these guys to make millions of bucks.

I'm already doing this. The 2011 White Sox are at this point irrelevant to my summer. I've been to one game this season, I find it easy to turn off the TV or radio when they're blowing another one, I am spending my time on other things this summer (beekeeping, herding with my Border Collie).

They can suck if they want to -- and clearly they do -- but I don't have to watch it and I sure don't have to pay for it.

DickAllen72
06-18-2011, 11:07 AM
I'm already doing this. The 2011 White Sox are at this point irrelevant to my summer. I've been to one game this season, I find it easy to turn off the TV or radio when they're blowing another one, I am spending my time on other things this summer (beekeeping, herding with my Border Collie).

They can suck if they want to -- and clearly they do -- but I don't have to watch it and I sure don't have to pay for it.
Amen! :thumbsup:

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 11:51 AM
I love this. I love it! For years the Sox refused to trade kid pitchers for vets, and there bitching and moaning. For years Reinsdorf wouldn't open the purse strings because he was "cheap." Now they get rid of the kids for vets and go out and get that expensive talent. And what happens? Why, more bitching and moaning about getting rid of talented youngsters for expensive veterans. I love it.

Huh? That was years ago under Schueler. Just because Schu hurt the team by never making any trades to put the Sox over the top doesn't mean KW is off the hook for trading away talent in poorly conceived trades today.

Yeah, Sox fans - just like fans of most competitive teams - want their team to be "buyers" at the break. But, I don't remember people "bitching and moaning" that we weren't trading a top pitching prospect who looked like he was just about major league ready for a highly inconsistent, high priced (only matters because then the Sox will claim they've hit their payroll limit) Boras client. Please show me the links of the hoards of Sox fans who were bitching and moaning because they wanted Kenny to dump Hudson for Jackson.

Also, I don't know what the "JR is cheap" issue has to do with this. That's not the issue and you know it. The concern among fans isn't that JR is spending too much money. It's that KW is racking up mediocre, big payroll guys to the point where JR legitimately says the Sox are at their payroll limit.

LITTLE NELL
06-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I'm already doing this. The 2011 White Sox are at this point irrelevant to my summer. I've been to one game this season, I find it easy to turn off the TV or radio when they're blowing another one, I am spending my time on other things this summer (beekeeping, herding with my Border Collie).

They can suck if they want to -- and clearly they do -- but I don't have to watch it and I sure don't have to pay for it.

I think the boycott has started, Sox may not draw 2,000,000 this year.
Sox are averaging 22,745 right now, games against the Cubs, Yanks and Bosox will bring up the average but I don't see much in walk-up business the rest of the season if they continue to hit like they are in the dead-ball era. Its a real shame because except for the blown saves the pitchers have done well. The team has 42 quality starts and only 33 wins, that tells you there is a problem somewhere.The fans see the problem but the front office doesn't.

GoSox2K3
06-18-2011, 11:54 AM
I'm already doing this. The 2011 White Sox are at this point irrelevant to my summer. I've been to one game this season, I find it easy to turn off the TV or radio when they're blowing another one, I am spending my time on other things this summer (beekeeping, herding with my Border Collie).

They can suck if they want to -- and clearly they do -- but I don't have to watch it and I sure don't have to pay for it.

I think the boycott has started, Sox may not draw 2,000,000 this year.
Sox are averaging 22,745 right now, games against the Cubs, Yanks and Bosox will bring up the average but I don't see much in walk-up business the rest of the season if they continue to hit like they are in the dead-ball era. Its a real shame because except for the blown saves the pitchers have done well. The team has 42 quality starts and only 33 wins, that tells you there is a problem somewhere.The fans see the problem but the front office doesn't.

I was at a game last weekend on a beautiful June day and the park looked very empty. It looked emptier even than the announced 22,000 crowd - which itself is pretty low for a summer weekend game.

JB98
06-18-2011, 12:48 PM
I love this. I love it! For years the Sox refused to trade kid pitchers for vets, and there bitching and moaning. For years Reinsdorf wouldn't open the purse strings because he was "cheap." Now they get rid of the kids for vets and go out and get that expensive talent. And what happens? Why, more bitching and moaning about getting rid of talented youngsters for expensive veterans. I love it.

People who miss Clayton Richard haven't checked the numbers lately.

When Hudson and Richard were here, many posters wanted them both dead.

doublem23
06-18-2011, 12:53 PM
I think the boycott has started, Sox may not draw 2,000,000 this year.
Sox are averaging 22,745 right now, games against the Cubs, Yanks and Bosox will bring up the average but I don't see much in walk-up business the rest of the season if they continue to hit like they are in the dead-ball era. Its a real shame because except for the blown saves the pitchers have done well. The team has 42 quality starts and only 33 wins, that tells you there is a problem somewhere.The fans see the problem but the front office doesn't.

It's also possible that the fans are just impatient psychopaths? I mean, we've seen the way this board crashes and skyrockets with every game, right? I would pray the front office would have a little more sense and patience than what is exercised around here.

SI1020
06-18-2011, 01:20 PM
People who miss Clayton Richard haven't checked the numbers lately.

When Hudson and Richard were here, many posters wanted them both dead. I didn't care for either of them. Hudson was a 5-7 inning pitcher in the Sox minor league system. Arizona apparently has him in a more aggressive mode, and going much deeper into games he starts. Why were the D Backs able to bring more out of him? No matter what he does from here on out he's already exceeded my highest expectations for him.

SI1020
06-18-2011, 01:24 PM
It's also possible that the fans are just impatient psychopaths? I mean, we've seen the way this board crashes and skyrockets with every game, right? I would pray the front office would have a little more sense and patience than what is exercised around here. What you say about the board is true and I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone else. That being said it's way past the time for patience on the part of management. The franchise is adrift and not headed towards a good place.

hi im skot
06-18-2011, 01:25 PM
I didn't care for either of them. Hudson was a 5-7 inning pitcher in the Sox minor league system. Arizona apparently has him in a more aggressive mode, and going much deeper into games he starts. Why were the D Backs able to bring more out of him? No matter what he does from here on out he's already exceeded my highest expectations for him.

Maybe Don Cooper isn't the end-all, be-all of pitching coaches after all?

Agreed, though; I certainly didn't expect Hudson to reach the level that he's at right now. Good for him if he keeps it up, but I wasn't exactly upset when the deal went down. Unfortunately, as other posters have pointed out, we apparently have a Javy Vazquez 2.0 on our hands in Jackson.

DirtySox
06-18-2011, 01:37 PM
People who miss Clayton Richard haven't checked the numbers lately.

When Hudson and Richard were here, many posters wanted them both dead.

I don't miss Clayton. And I've beat the Hudson horse to death since day one. Terrible trade.

Many posters want any prospect gone if they don't immediately live up to expectations which is maddening. Rookies that can step onto a major league roster and immediately hit the ground running are few and far between. The Hosmers and Heywards of the world are the exception, not the rule. Adjustment and acclimation periods are necessary for the bulk of the young players out there.

LITTLE NELL
06-18-2011, 01:43 PM
It's also possible that the fans are just impatient psychopaths? I mean, we've seen the way this board crashes and skyrockets with every game, right? I would pray the front office would have a little more sense and patience than what is exercised around here.

These guys will probably have a little winning streak and get close to .500 and we will get a little excited but this team is a big tease and until their mindset in the batters box changes they will end up a little above or below .500. I really think that opposing clubs know that their pitchers don't have to throw strikes to beat us, our guys will swing at anything.

DumpJerry
06-18-2011, 02:06 PM
I literally cannot watch this anymore. . .

Have you called your cable or satellite service to see if that is why you're not getting Sox games any more?

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Sox front office once again for fielding a division winner of a team again this year. :rolleyes: Also I would like to thank Ozzie for being flexible enough to platoon players to try and kick-start some semblance of an offense too. Ugh!! It pains me to even think or write about this stuff.

It may pain you write whatever it was you wrote, but it hurt my eyes even more to try to read it.
:tealtutor:

rdwj
06-18-2011, 02:47 PM
I turned the game off in the second inning last night. I never do that. This team is infuriating to watch and the lack of change makes me not care. If they were AT LEAST trying to shake thing up, I'd watch, but I don't see this team, as constructed, doing anything more than what they're doing.

Fire Walker, bring up Viciado - SOMETHING!

SOXSINCE'70
06-18-2011, 03:11 PM
I went to bed after the third inning since I had to work early this morning.

The first three innings almost put me to sleep.
C'Mon!!:angry: Every pitcher isn't Felix Hernandez.

White Sox baseball: we'll strike out and hit in GIDP's
with the best of them.:(:

Dan H
06-18-2011, 03:12 PM
It's also possible that the fans are just impatient psychopaths? I mean, we've seen the way this board crashes and skyrockets with every game, right? I would pray the front office would have a little more sense and patience than what is exercised around here.

I am one of those psychopaths at times. I vent my spleen here many times, but I also have been going to Sox games since 1960 and finally experienced a World Series as a fan in 2005.

As far as 2011, there is no time for patience now. The season is almost half over. Something is wrong and the club just can't wait for a hot streak that probably won't happen. As this thread says, "Do Something."

Frater Perdurabo
06-18-2011, 04:01 PM
There's very little that can be done to fix this roster on the fly right now. For various reasons (some have no-trade clauses or 10/5 rights, others have massive contracts), none of our expensive veterans can realistically be traded. And if we trade any of our young players, we'll just get similar young players, or flawed veterans, in return.

We need coaches who can work with Morel, Beckham, Alexei and Viciedo, to maximize their respective talents. We also need a hitting coach who can help veterans like Rios and Dunn. These five guys are the "future" of the club for the next several years, and with Quentin, Konerko, form our core of position players.

Change the coaching staff, but keep Cooper.

Frater Perdurabo
06-18-2011, 04:05 PM
It's also possible that the fans are just impatient psychopaths? I mean, we've seen the way this board crashes and skyrockets with every game, right? I would pray the front office would have a little more sense and patience than what is exercised around here.

Don't you think the Sox have been sufficiently "patient" with their coaching staff, given the losing record since July 2006, despite a payroll regularly in excess of $100 million?

TomBradley72
06-18-2011, 04:25 PM
One of the saddest aspects of this whole debacle is that in the entire minor league system, especially AA and AAA, there is only ONE prospect the fans can remotely clamor for- Viciedo, an infielder recentl converted to the outfield- not a second prospect anywhere that can help us in 2011 or 2012.

The fact that 2 pitching injuries leads us to Bruney and Harrell is more evidence. God help us if an infielder or AJ goes down- after our 44 year old utility infielder- theres no org depth.

Hitmen77
06-18-2011, 04:29 PM
I literally cannot watch this anymore. . .

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Sox front office once again for fielding a division winner of a team again this year. :rolleyes: Also I would like to thank Ozzie for being flexible enough to platoon players to try and kick-start some semblance of an offense too. Ugh!! It pains me to even think or write about this stuff.


Ouch. Now I literally cannot watch anymore either! :tongue:

kittle42
06-18-2011, 05:07 PM
Hudson is only doing good because he's facing crappy NL teams.

Heh. He does well against crappy AL teams, too.

kittle42
06-18-2011, 05:09 PM
I was at a game last weekend on a beautiful June day and the park looked very empty. It looked emptier even than the announced 22,000 crowd - which itself is pretty low for a summer weekend game.

Summer school isn't out yet.

ZombieRob
06-18-2011, 05:23 PM
Still have this suspicion, one more year off Ozzie making us miserable since he has a year left IIRC until Ventura is groomed for the Job.

JB98
06-18-2011, 05:27 PM
Still have this suspicion, one more year off Ozzie making us miserable since he has a year left IIRC until Ventura is groomed for the Job.

I don't know. I've never heard Robin say he has the desire to take a uniformed position in MLB. It's nice to have him back in the fold with this organization, but I'd be surprised if he ends up in the dugout.

Brian26
06-18-2011, 06:01 PM
I don't know. I've never heard Robin say he has the desire to take a uniformed position in MLB. It's nice to have him back in the fold with this organization, but I'd be surprised if he ends up in the dugout.

Ventura was on television today as the color analyst for the College World Series. I was surprised at how natural he sounded. He'll end up full-time in the booth before he ever becomes a manager.

kufram
06-19-2011, 07:15 AM
I think a rookie mlb manager would be a mistake no matter what his name is. As far as the subject of this thread I think there is only one thing that can be done... these players (plus perhaps Viciedo) need to win some games. I suppose a trade might work out in a helpful way but I'm not holding my breath.

cws05champ
06-19-2011, 09:48 AM
Math isn't hard: Unfourtunately Pierre, Dunn, Beckham, and Rios haven't helped the team at all, and then there's a pretty bad bullpen that's blown 5-8 games? I think this is ozzie's best year to be honest; half your team sucks and your still in the race at this point?

Edit: To clarify; I give ozzie credit for discovering Santos, and that he has still given Pierre and other veterans enough time to prove themselves, yet hopefully Dayan comes up soon. (I can't capitalize "o"'s or I would capitalize ozzie, my comp is messed up). Hard to say why this team has a chance seeing the numbers outside PK and the starters. Looks like oakland...

If you think THIS is Ozzie's best year, then you are not watching the same team I am. Especially early in the season Ozzie was making horrible decisions...and even as recently as a few games ago when he messed up the base running substitutions in Minnesota. Yes, the Bullpen was bad early in the year but he didn't exactly put them in the best position to succeed.

I didn't care for either of them. Hudson was a 5-7 inning pitcher in the Sox minor league system. Arizona apparently has him in a more aggressive mode, and going much deeper into games he starts. Why were the D Backs able to bring more out of him? No matter what he does from here on out he's already exceeded my highest expectations for him.
This is a fallacy that keeps getting repeated. Most pitching prospects nowadays are held back to certain pitch counts and coddled by the organization to some extent. Hudson was drafted in 2008 and then in 2009 across 4 levels(A, A+, AA, AAA) pitched 147 innings, with a 2.32 ERA, 0.943 WHIP and a 166/34 SO/BB ratio.

Bottom line is the White Sox did not get more out of him because they were not patient enough to wait more than 3 starts at the major league level before deciding that they wanted a veteran "stuff" pitcher rather than 6 years of Hudson.

I have no problem with trading away Richard and others in the Peavy deal, even in retrospect. If you have the chance to get a Cy young #1 type pitcher your do it....Jackson on the other hand had one good half a season and the rest of his career he has been inconsistent at best, despite great stuff. Hated the Jackson/Hudson trade at the time...hate it even more now.

SI1020
06-19-2011, 10:19 AM
This is a fallacy that keeps getting repeated. Most pitching prospects nowadays are held back to certain pitch counts and coddled by the organization to some extent. Hudson was drafted in 2008 and then in 2009 across 4 levels(A, A+, AA, AAA) pitched 147 innings, with a 2.32 ERA, 0.943 WHIP and a 166/34 SO/BB ratio.

Bottom line is the White Sox did not get more out of him because they were not patient enough to wait more than 3 starts at the major league level before deciding that they wanted a veteran "stuff" pitcher rather than 6 years of Hudson.
I know that many minor league pitchers are coddled by strict pitch counts, a stupid philosophy IMO. As for Hudson, he seemed to pitch in an overly cautious manner at Charlotte in 2010, getting himself into jams, resulting in his being pulled for a reliever. Then he goes to Arizona and it seems to me he is allowed to trust his pitches and his instincts more. Like I said before on several occasions I was underwhelmed by Hudson and surprised by his success. Now thanks to your post I realize I should have paid more attention to his pre 2010 work on the mound. Whether or not the Sox and this humble fan misjudged his talent, trading him for Jackson may turn out to be one of the worst trades the Sox have made in recent history.