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Lip Man 1
06-15-2011, 11:58 PM
Another brilliant response by our 'tough-guy' manager. This is on the fact the Twins were running at will on the Sox:

“Unfortunately, those guys know how to run the bases. They’re pretty fast, there’s nothing you can do about it.”

Atta boy tough guy...there's nothing the Sox can do. Cuddyer is a speed demon don't ya know! They're just "baseball stupid" when it comes to fundamentals despite all of the "work" they do on this stuff in spring training.

Sorry, I'm trying not to over react but I'm so sick and tired of this bull**** attitude from Mr. Tough-Guy. There's "nothing" that can be done. We suck at fundamentals and that's the way it is. Here's something you CAN do Ozzie, you can bench the stiffs who can't seem to do anything but try to hit nine run home runs, 800 feet on outside breaking balls.

This 125 million dollar team can't bunt, can't hit and run, can't stop anybody from stealing (Luis Aparicio at 80 years old would swipe 50 bases), can't execute simple run down's without making it into a comedy of errors.

My God, Al Lopez, Eddie Stanky, Paul Richards, Chuck Tanner those guys must be spinning in their graves.

I've said my piece I'll go urinate on a statue now since I'm just a fan and don't know **** according to Mr. Tough-Guy.

Lip

DSpivack
06-16-2011, 12:00 AM
Ozzie just shows how mentally weak the Sox are with quotes like this.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-16-2011, 12:05 AM
Ozzie just shows how mentally weak the Sox are with quotes like this.

Anytime he has the opportunity to kiss the Twins' asses, he will.

It won't end until he gets canned.

JB98
06-16-2011, 12:07 AM
Cuddyer is no faster than I am.

How is this Twins team in last place? They are so great, aren't they Ozzie?

BainesHOF
06-16-2011, 12:50 AM
Let's be honest. Ozzie is pretty much just a figurehead for the organization. He does very little managing or coaching. He runs his mouth and most of the media buys into his bluster.

The way teams steal on us virtually at will is indictive of the organization's problems. It's been going on for years and nobody does a damn thing about it. Heck, nobody really even acknowledges the problem. A.J. can't throw anyone out. Even players who normally don't attempt steals steal against him. Some of the pitchers are part of the problem, but they don't do a damn thing to correct the problem. Don Cooper doesn't make them change. Ozzie ignores the problem, and even makes light of it. Even our shortstop is part of the problem. He's been receiving throws at second base wrongly for years, but nothing changes, even though his manager was a shortstop.

Not only doesn't Kenny Williams do anything to correct the problem, but he keeps everyone in place, and for some reason re-signs A.J. when it was apparent last year that his effective catching days are over.

Year after year, teams rob us blind, we lose close games and underachieve.

The whole things smacks of a combination of ignorance and stupidity.

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2011, 12:55 AM
...for some reason re-signs A.J. when it was apparent last year that his effective catching days are over.What was the alternative?

JB98
06-16-2011, 01:02 AM
Let's be honest. Ozzie is pretty much just a figurehead for the organization. He does very little managing or coaching. He runs his mouth and most of the media buys into his bluster.

The way teams steal on us virtually at will is indictive of the organization's problems. It's been going on for years and nobody does a damn thing about it. Heck, nobody really even acknowledges the problem. A.J. can't throw anyone out. Even players who normally don't attempt steals steal against him. Some of the pitchers are part of the problem, but they don't do a damn thing to correct the problem. Don Cooper doesn't make them change. Ozzie ignores the problem, and even makes light of it. Even our shortstop is part of the problem. He's been receiving throws at second base wrongly for years, but nothing changes, even though his manager was a shortstop.

Not only doesn't Kenny Williams do anything to correct the problem, but he keeps everyone in place, and for some reason re-signs A.J. when it was apparent last year that his effective catching days are over.

Year after year, teams rob us blind, we lose close games and underachieve.

The whole things smacks of a combination of ignorance and stupidity.

It might help if the Sox would pitch out every now and then and at least make the Twins think about it.

For the manager to say the Twins run the bases great and there's nothing that can be done about it, that's embarrassing. Might as well have me manage the team. I can sit there, do nothing and get my ass kicked by last-place teams, and I'll do it for a lot cheaper than Ozzie Guillen.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 01:16 AM
Nellie (et al):

I can only tell you what was told by a source. Take it for what you will.

I was told Kenny was ready to sign Miguel Olivo to a deal (and he's having a hell of a season with Seattle) when JR PERSONALLY stepped in and signed A.J.

I was shocked when I was told this because everything I had read and heard from the mainstream media was that JR stays out of baseball decisions.

If this is true then there are at least two times when that wasn't the case....this incident with A.J. and a comment passed along to me that JR has been getting involved in the drafting process and who should be picked.

Again I don't know if this is true, my source is a good one and I can't dismiss it offhand.

Lip

Noneck
06-16-2011, 01:17 AM
Somehow this will spun by the Sox media carnival barkers that this was in someway a motivational quote or a quote to take the heat off the players. The fundamental issue goes deeper than Guillen, its their coaches, its their farm system and their instructors, the GM and the chairman that writes the checks. Its a top to bottom problem and has been for years. I think this year the chickens will come to roost, the pocketbook will be finally hurt which should bring the changes that have been needed for years.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 01:20 AM
Noneck:

Just in the last ten days JR was personally quoted by the media as telling them he thought the Sox were the best team in the division and that he thought both Kenny and Ozzie would be back next season.

Could loyalty outweigh the pocketbook at his age? Since I assume money is the least of JR's worries at this stage of his life.

Lip

BringHomeDaBacon
06-16-2011, 01:26 AM
What was the alternative?

Are you implying there was no alternative? And that AJ is the only available catcher on the planet?

Noneck
06-16-2011, 01:26 AM
Nellie (et al):


I was shocked when I was told this because everything I had read and heard from the mainstream media was that JR stays out of baseball decisions.



Lip, You've seen him involved for years probably since he bought the club. I have assumed that he has had the final say in just about even major personnel decision from the get go.

Noneck
06-16-2011, 01:29 AM
Noneck:

Just in the last ten days JR was personally quoted by the media as telling them he thought the Sox were the best team in the division and that he thought both Kenny and Ozzie would be back next season.

Could loyalty outweigh the pocketbook at his age? Since I assume money is the least of JR's worries at this stage of his life.

Lip

Sorry but that loyalty stuff still doesn't make sense to me. A money man will always be a money till he turns to dust.

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2011, 01:32 AM
Are you implying there was no alternative? And that AJ is the only available catcher on the planet?Okay, what was the alternative?

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 01:34 AM
Nellie:

See my earlier post and I do recall reading in the Chicago newspapers that the Sox were talking with Olivo.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2011, 01:37 AM
Nellie:

See my earlier post and I do recall reading in the Chicago newspapers that the Sox were talking with Olivo.

LipI was addressing that to BringHome who was sounding all incredulous, but didn't offer any alternative. If Olivo was genuinely available, then it was worth looking into. I like Olivo. I'm just questioning the people who want to get rid of players without suggesting the replacement and how to get it done. I haven't seen a single person besides you suggest that Olivo should have been brought in to replace AJ, all I see is "they should get rid of AJ."

I swear, if the Sox listened to posters on here, there'd be practically nobody left on the roster.

thomas35forever
06-16-2011, 01:53 AM
Okay, what was the alternative?
None. And that's why we had to re-sign AJ.

hawkjt
06-16-2011, 01:55 AM
Nellie (et al):

I can only tell you what was told by a source. Take it for what you will.

I was told Kenny was ready to sign Miguel Olivo to a deal (and he's having a hell of a season with Seattle) when JR PERSONALLY stepped in and signed A.J.

I was shocked when I was told this because everything I had read and heard from the mainstream media was that JR stays out of baseball decisions.

If this is true then there are at least two times when that wasn't the case....this incident with A.J. and a comment passed along to me that JR has been getting involved in the drafting process and who should be picked.

Again I don't know if this is true, my source is a good one and I can't dismiss it offhand.

Lip

Olivo is hitting .233 with an on base of .282....AJ is hitting .280 and on base of .322 ....now Olivo has 10 homers and 33 rbis so he is productive.
I have always liked Miguel and would not have minded getting him one bit. The knock has always been that he does not call a good game. You do have to wonder why he keeps getting moved along,because athletically,he is very good. He was signed on Jan 4. AJ was signed on Dec 3.

kufram
06-16-2011, 02:19 AM
Olivo is hitting .233 with an on base of .282....AJ is hitting .280 and on base of .322 ....now Olivo has 10 homers and 33 rbis so he is productive.
I have always liked Miguel and would not have minded getting him one bit. The knock has always been that he does not call a good game. You do have to wonder why he keeps getting moved along,because athletically,he is very good. He was signed on Jan 4. AJ was signed on Dec 3.

When we were playing Seattle Hawk and Stone were saying that Olivo wasn't liked by the pitchers in Chicago and I got the impression that the pitchers weren't the only ones that didn't like him around. I think he's an excellent catcher and would liked to keep him here. That's just what I heard.

BainesHOF
06-16-2011, 02:19 AM
A.J.'s bat has woken up a bit, though he still doesn't hit for power and is brutal in the clutch. Plus his attitude for much of the season has been lame. Anybody would have been better than A.J. (Much like anyone would be better than Pierre.)

Olivo has the best catching ERA in the league.

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2011, 02:21 AM
Anybody would have been better than A.J. Once somebody says this about any player, they lose all credibility. There's always a worse option. Always. And often many, many worse options.

doublem23
06-16-2011, 02:46 AM
Olivo has the best catching ERA in the league.

LOL, what?

ERA is, at best, a pretty bad stat for pitchers. For catchers? Just silly.

BainesHOF
06-16-2011, 03:08 AM
LOL, what?

ERA is, at best, a pretty bad stat for pitchers. For catchers? Just silly.

Since when is ERA a bad stat for pitchers? What the heck?!

It's not silly for catchers, though of course other factors are involved beyond a catcher's pitch calling. It can be useful, though. While it doesn't prove that Olivo is the best pitch caller in the league, I think it's fair to say that he probably doesn't suck, either. I remember that Fisk's ERA was a half a run lower a game than Karkovice's ERA. I think you can deduce from that stat that Fisk was a better pitch caller than Karkovice.

russ99
06-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Olivo is hitting .233 with an on base of .282....AJ is hitting .280 and on base of .322 ....now Olivo has 10 homers and 33 rbis so he is productive.
I have always liked Miguel and would not have minded getting him one bit. The knock has always been that he does not call a good game. You do have to wonder why he keeps getting moved along,because athletically,he is very good. He was signed on Jan 4. AJ was signed on Dec 3.

You got it.

A.J. is here for his bat and most importantly how he handles pitchers. Could our good starting pitching this year be a coincidence? Maybe...

Throwing out basestealers is low on his list.

And sorry, if nobody's looking or throwing over to keep a guy close to the bag, then A.J. shouldn't take all the blame for letting guys steal.

This is my biggest frustration with this team - nobody seems to care about the little things, and that we're sure to win if we keep doing the same things ad nauseum.
Ozzie preaches the opposite often, so I don't understand why the players aren't getting it. Maybe they think they know better than the coaches.

tsoxman
06-16-2011, 09:39 AM
.....I swear, if the Sox listened to posters on here, there'd be practically nobody left on the roster.
Or they would have a team comprised of many overpaid and overrated veterans past their prime...Oh, wait.

SI1020
06-16-2011, 09:48 AM
LOL, what?

ERA is, at best, a pretty bad stat for pitchers. For catchers? Just silly. No stat is a be all and end all but ERA is one of my favorite stats for starting pitchers, not so much for relievers.

SI1020
06-16-2011, 09:51 AM
You got it.

A.J. is here for his bat and most importantly how he handles pitchers. Could our good starting pitching this year be a coincidence? Maybe...

Throwing out basestealers is low on his list.

And sorry, if nobody's looking or throwing over to keep a guy close to the bag, then A.J. shouldn't take all the blame for letting guys steal.

This is my biggest frustration with this team - nobody seems to care about the little things, and that we're sure to win if we keep doing the same things ad nauseum.
Ozzie preaches the opposite often, so I don't understand why the players aren't getting it. Maybe they think they know better than the coaches. He preaches but does he teach? I'm just asking.

kufram
06-16-2011, 10:17 AM
Are Ozzie and the coaches really there to teach seasoned mlb ballplayers how to play baseball? I can see giving hitter's an objective point of view or spotting a little hitch in a swing or that a pitcher is tipping pitches. Helping with detailed mechanical things, yes, I can see that. But to teach these guys the fundamentals of the game of baseball? ... I think they should know that by the time they get here.

veeter
06-16-2011, 10:24 AM
While I agree it's embarrassing, getting run on all night (the double steal hurt), the OFFENSE was again the problem. AJ doesn't throw out any runners, but he's the BEST at blocking pitches. So he saves many a run in that department. Throw in Floyd not being able to hold anybody on.... Buehrle will keep the runners in check tonight. So if the Sox play poorly, I have no doubt it will have more to do with hitting woes and overall idiotic play, than the Twins stealing bases.

doublem23
06-16-2011, 10:27 AM
Since when is ERA a bad stat for pitchers? What the heck?!

ERA is heavily dependent on the other 8 guys behind you, it's like how RBI and Runs Scored are bad stats for offensive players.

ERA is OK. But if you're extrapolating it to other players, that's just silly.

Gavin
06-16-2011, 10:32 AM
AJ sucks at hitting, has sucked for years. AJ has never been able to throw runners out in his time here, but in the past couple of years he's been flat-out awful. AJ "Greenlight" Pierzynski.

But then, of course, I come on here and get to hear about the "intangibles" like game-calling (how many times in AJ's tenure have the Sox finished in the top 10 of Team ERA? Answer: 2) and run-saving blocks (how many runs-produced does his CS% cause?).

But wait, we also have to see him be a big ol' baby when he pops out and smashes his bat on the ground like a doof. Yeah, I guess that's "passion" but it's not professional, just like his throwing arm.

But no, Nellie's right. There's absolutely no one else the Sox could have gone with and everyone here is an idiot for thinking the Sox could have signed someone else.

tstrike2000
06-16-2011, 10:37 AM
This is my biggest frustration with this team - nobody seems to care about the little things, and that we're sure to win if we keep doing the same things ad nauseum.

Under the Ozzie regime, I don't really remember the Sox ever caring about the little things. And you have this year where Pierre isn't and/or can't do any of the little things and it just trickles on down.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-16-2011, 11:11 AM
Okay, what was the alternative?

Miguel Olivo, Russell Martin, Yorvit Torrealba and Ramon Hernandez

ALL were signed for either less than A.J. or for one less year (Martin).

The Immigrant
06-16-2011, 11:31 AM
While I agree it's embarrassing, getting run on all night (the double steal hurt), the OFFENSE was again the problem.

We got terrible ABs from seasoned veterans, some of whom swung away like they were double-parked in the fire lane. That's the main reason we lost.

The other one is Gavin's decision to start throwing batting practice in the third inning. He was lucky to get the DP ball from Valencia, because he had zero command that inning.

By the way, that was Gavin's 5th straight loss against the Twins. In his last 4 starts against them, he has given up 23 earned runs in 25.1 innings.

kittle42
06-16-2011, 11:58 AM
This is my biggest frustration with this team - nobody seems to care about the little things, and that we're sure to win if we keep doing the same things ad nauseum.
Ozzie preaches the opposite often, so I don't understand why the players aren't getting it. Maybe they think they know better than the coaches.

Oh, this is the best post this week.

SI1020
06-16-2011, 02:48 PM
Are Ozzie and the coaches really there to teach seasoned mlb ballplayers how to play baseball? I can see giving hitter's an objective point of view or spotting a little hitch in a swing or that a pitcher is tipping pitches. Helping with detailed mechanical things, yes, I can see that. But to teach these guys the fundamentals of the game of baseball? ... I think they should know that by the time they get here. What the hell are the manager and coaches there for then? Somebody needs to teach these guys the fundamentals of the game because obviously they haven't learned them. In any case, I dislike this argument. Training, retraining, cross-training, etc. is a constant in today's workplace. I could not disagree more with this line of thought. Well run businesses and organizations train their employees well and prepare them to react in the expected manner that a situation dictates. Better execution of the fundamentals might actually help the Sox win a few more games over the course of the season. Total absolution for the manager and coaches just doesn't cut it with me.

Fisk Fan
06-16-2011, 04:41 PM
What the hell are the manager and coaches there for then? Somebody needs to teach these guys the fundamentals of the game because obviously they haven't learned them. In any case, I dislike this argument. Training, retraining, cross-training, etc. is a constant in today's workplace. I could not disagree more with this line of thought. Well run businesses and organizations train their employees well and prepare them to react in the expected manner that a situation dictates. Better execution of the fundamentals might actually help the Sox win a few more games over the course of the season. Total absolution for the manager and coaches just doesn't cut it with me.

Spot on here. The devil is in the details. You're going to win 60 and lose 60, it's what you do with the 42 in between that make the difference. I believe you can win 4-5 games that you wouldn't have otherwise won with good, sound fundamentals. Those 4-5 games could mean the difference between winning the division and finishing third.....but hey, what do I know? I'm just another ignorant fan who pays money year after year to get kicked in the nuts!

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 05:16 PM
Fisk:

You forgot about the part where as a fan you go urinate on statues!

:D:

Lip

Nellie_Fox
06-17-2011, 01:05 AM
But no, Nellie's right. There's absolutely no one else the Sox could have gone with and everyone here is an idiot for thinking the Sox could have signed someone else.If you're going to quote me, at least have the courtesy to do it accurately. I said nothing of the sort. I simply asked those who were saying that the Sox should not have brought AJ back what their alternative was. I'm only asking that people not say what the Sox shouldn't have done without saying what should have been done, which is what happens ALL THE TIME on here. And saying "anybody would be better" is NOT a solution, it's nonsense.