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gosox41
06-15-2011, 10:34 PM
One of the definitions of the word 'rival': a person or thing that is in a position to dispute another's preeminence or superiority

So when the Sox play the Twins, do you consider us rivals? Do you think the Twins and their fans consider us rivals? I know what is said publicly by the players, but come on. The Twins must look forward to facing us because they know we can account for aboout 15% of their wins per season if they have a good year.

I'll set the over/under for Sox wins vs. the Twins this season at 4...and I seriously would still consider taking the under. We're 0-3 against them so far, and I assume we have 14-15 games left.

The Sox are like the big stupid oaf on the playground who just throws his size and weight around to get his way. But the other kids have learned that some playground smarts and finesse will beat the one dimension of pure raw, power.

Wait a second...Yep, I think the Sox just hit into another DP while the Twins called up another raw minor leaguer to embarass us yet again.

I've been patient with this team all year, knowing the talent level is there and that this team is capable of winning 90 games. I've dealt with the annual 6 week slump, the bullpen blowing leads when the offense does show up, as well as the lack of timely hitting.

But I am more then frustrated with the way this team plays against the Twins every damn year (except for maybe 2005.) I have no doubt it's completely mental on our part. Sure they're a good team. but do we warrant a .277 winning percentage against them (like last year??). We play tougher and deeper teams then Minny and do much better against them. And I think Minnesota is a very well run organization, but if they are such a great team then why don't they do better in the playoffs?

Tongiht's game epitomizes the Sox vs Twins. We have pretty good starting pitching. But when the Twins get runners on base they do things like double steal or bunt or (and this is rare for the Sox) come up with a timely hit (ie see the two doubles--one down each line that led to the first run.) All tha was missing was the bullpen meltdown as the Twins get "fluke" hits while we DP and pop out ourselves to death.

Meanwhile the "mighty" White Sox draw a couple of walks and get some hits, though very few are in the same inning. But we did manage to ground into 4 DP's against the mighty Carl Pavano. FWIW, one of the outs made in the 5th or 6th inning was a routine ground ball to their SS while the Sox had a runner on first and two outs. So, that pretty much would have been a DP if there were less then 2 outs.

So, in conclusion, when the Sox play the Twins, they are not rivals. What there is are two talented teams playing each other where one team knows they're going to win and stick it to us while the other team is so scared and inconsistent that they are trying not to lose.

If only I were in Vegas to profit from this.



Bob

Lip Man 1
06-15-2011, 10:46 PM
The Sox are a mentally weak team and have been for most of the past ten years save for 2005.

Coincidentally perhaps they had some vocal clubhouse leaders who wouldn't take **** from anybody that year

Since Ozzie or the organization got rid of them they let the Twins **** all over them... from dirty plays at the plate to throwing at Sox hitters...and big tough guy Ozzie Guillen doesn't do **** but tip his cap to Gardy.

And it's not just the Twins...they couldn't beat the A's for years, they are terrible playing Toronto...they can't hit pitchers they haven't seen before, they can't hit in the cold weather, yadda...yadda...yadda.

I can't speak for anybody else but you'd think the organization would be tired of making excuses by now.

Lip

JB98
06-15-2011, 10:47 PM
What's really funny is that Ozzie was quoted the other day as saying both teams "raise their level" for these games.

If the Sox are raising their level to go 7-27 over the last 34 matchups, we've got some serious problems in this organization.

cards press box
06-15-2011, 11:37 PM
What's really funny is that Ozzie was quoted the other day as saying both teams "raise their level" for these games.

If the Sox are raising their level to go 7-27 over the last 34 matchups, we've got some serious problems in this organization.

The 7-27 record is the Sox record in the past 34 games in Minneapolis. That, on its own, is surely bad but I imagine that the Sox have played better against the Twins in games in Chicago in the few years.

And before anyone hails the Twins as the epitome of clutch, I would point out two things: (1) the Twins' 6-21 record in the post-season under Gardy and (2) the Sox 1-0 win over Minnesota in Game 163 of the 2008 season.


:fsock

DrCrawdad
06-16-2011, 12:17 AM
What's really funny is that Ozzie was quoted the other day as saying both teams "raise their level" for these games.

If the Sox are raising their level to go 7-27 over the last 34 match-ups, we've got some serious problems in this organization.

You're right. If by raising their level Ozzie means standing when the Twins walk in the room and then bowing down.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 12:31 AM
Crawdad:

More like standing up, bowing down and then kissing their asses from Mr. Tough-Guy.

Lip

DrCrawdad
06-16-2011, 12:40 AM
Crawdad:

More like standing up, bowing down and then kissing their asses from Mr. Tough-Guy.

Lip

Time to take a page from the Cubbies and make up shirts for the team that say, "**** THE TWINS!"

Seriously though, time to stop bowing and kissing their rear ends. Time to stop slobbering all over them. And first off, get this attitude change by hitting the Twins back when they hit the Sox (so to speak).

JB98
06-16-2011, 12:50 AM
The 7-27 record is the Sox record in the past 34 games in Minneapolis. That, on its own, is surely bad but I imagine that the Sox have played better against the Twins in games in Chicago in the few years.

And before anyone hails the Twins as the epitome of clutch, I would point out two things: (1) the Twins' 6-21 record in the post-season under Gardy and (2) the Sox 1-0 win over Minnesota in Game 163 of the 2008 season

I'm afraid that is incorrect. The Sox are 7-27 in the last 34 overall meetings.

The 2009 Sox won four of the first five meetings between the two clubs. Then, the Twins won 20-1 on May 21. Minnesota won 11 of the final 13 head-to-head games of the 2009 campaign.

Last 13 meetings of 2009: 2-11
2010: 5-13
2011: 0-3
Total: 7-27

The Sox have not played better in Chicago against the Twins. I'm sorry. It's the sad truth.

gosox41
06-16-2011, 06:06 AM
Time to take a page from the Cubbies and make up shirts for the team that say, "**** THE TWINS!"

Seriously though, time to stop bowing and kissing their rear ends. Time to stop slobbering all over them. And first off, get this attitude change by hitting the Twins back when they hit the Sox (so to speak).

Where's the swagger on this team? I find it hard to believe it's easier to go to Fenway or Yankee Stadium and have a much better win percentage in those hostile environments against much better teams then it is to play the Twins here or at home and be this bad.


They have like 6 key players on the DL and we're letting rookies embarass us. Sure Pavano is a good pitcher but he's no Cy Young. And it's going to continue. You can see it.

I didn't know the Sox were forbidden from runnning, bunting, taking extra bases, etc while the Twins own the rights to it.

I am certainly not in the Fire Ozzie Club, but the teams dismal peformance against the Twins (and more recently the Tigers) the last couple of years has me at my tipping point and may convince me to join that club. He spends so much time talking about how great they are. How about spending that time figuring out how to beat an injured team missing most of their stars while we're healthy?


Bob

Dan H
06-16-2011, 06:41 AM
The White Sox attitude toward the Twins reminds me of the 1969 Cubs who were freaked out when a black cat walked past their dugout at Shea Stadium. Other than that I don't want to analyze this further because I'm so sick of them losing almost every game to the Twins. Either they turn this trend around or their season is over. It won't matter if they romp through the National League.

miker
06-16-2011, 07:39 AM
Maybe the team should have a fish fry with piranhas...

AnkleSox
06-16-2011, 08:16 AM
When Cuddyer steals three bases in one game you know the Twins are just ****ing with the Sox at that point. They know they are in the heads of every player on this team and can get away with pretty much anything they want.

Time to stop being wimps and throwing some high heat, stealing unnecessary bases, and letting scrub players get cheap hits against these ****ers. I'm tired of seeing an inferior team from an inferior city continue to dominate our $125 million little league team.

cards press box
06-16-2011, 08:20 AM
I'm afraid that is incorrect. The Sox are 7-27 in the last 34 overall meetings.

The 2009 Sox won four of the first five meetings between the two clubs. Then, the Twins won 20-1 on May 21. Minnesota won 11 of the final 13 head-to-head games of the 2009 campaign.

Last 13 meetings of 2009: 2-11
2010: 5-13
2011: 0-3
Total: 7-27

The Sox have not played better in Chicago against the Twins. I'm sorry. It's the sad truth.

My mistake. Wow, that is bad, almost like Gardy's teams in the post-season.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2011, 08:43 AM
When Cuddyer steals three bases in one game you know the Twins are just ****ing with the Sox at that point. They know they are in the heads of every player on this team and can get away with pretty much anything they want.

Time to stop being wimps and throwing some high heat, stealing unnecessary bases, and letting scrub players get cheap hits against these ****ers. I'm tired of seeing an inferior team from an inferior city continue to dominate our $125 million little league team.

What would the Twins do if a comparable Sox player stole 3 bases off them?

I bet that Sox player would get plunked right on the thigh or knee cap. Then you know Ozzie and the Sox would do nothing in retaliation & heap praise on the Twins.

Over in the game thread there are several posters saying that Sox fans are overreacting to one loss. As the records prove, this is not one game. This is absolute dominance by the Twins over the Sox, not in one game but in the last 3-4 years or more. I'm sick of it.

Procol Harum
06-16-2011, 08:55 AM
Happily, last night I was meeting up with a former student I taught years ago and the Stanley Cup game 7 was on the tube at the bar. When I heard the final tally and saw the box score of the Sox game my reaction was--"Well, same ol' same ol'." First-pitch swinging, lack of clutch hitting, a gaggle of double plays, the inability to hold runners on and/or throw baserunners out, etc., etc., etc. There's not much mystery as to the why's of Sox losses to the Twins--the mystery lies in how everyone doesn't absolutely beat their brains in after the same fashion. As Sox fans I guess we can be happy that it doesn't play out that way so we can have a reasonable shot at hope....

SI1020
06-16-2011, 08:57 AM
What would the Twins do if a comparable Sox player stole 3 bases off them?

I bet that Sox player would get plunked right on the thigh or knee cap. Then you know Ozzie and the Sox would do nothing in retaliation & heap praise on the Twins.

Over in the game thread there are several posters saying that Sox fans are overreacting to one loss. As the records prove, this is not one game. This is absolute dominance by the Twins over the Sox, not in one game but in the last 3-4 years or more. I'm sick of it. It's not just one game and it's not just one team. It's going on 5 years of for the most part lousy baseball. When will it be OK to say all is not well?

SephClone89
06-16-2011, 09:52 AM
The Twins do consider us rivals. I seem to remember a Twins commercial from a couple of years ago that contained a dig at Sox fans.

The Twins ****ing own us, but it doesn't change the fact that we're rivals. See Federer-Nadal.

white sox bill
06-16-2011, 10:32 AM
I'm quite sure the Twins look forward to another Sox beatdown everytime. Death, taxes, the sun setting in the West and a Twin victory are constants. Sighhhhhh

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 10:56 AM
Cards:

Very true the Twins have a terrible post season record. Of course at least they are getting a chance to lose games in the post season while the Sox are out on the golf course.

Lip

sox1970
06-16-2011, 11:02 AM
There are three rivalries in baseball--Yankees/Red Sox, Cubs/Cardinals, and Dodgers/Giants. The rest are just teams forced to play 18 times a year.

JC456
06-16-2011, 11:28 AM
The Twins laugh at our mental inability. They love to play with us by bringing up those young players and then watching as we stmble and blunder along. then the Twins pitchers know our hitters will swing at almost every pitch. Why should they throw anything over the plate when you have someone so aggressive at the plate. Quentin couldn't get back to the bench fast enough last night. I think if the ball would have been five feet outside he still would have swung. And ther they went up one after the other. It is that way every game I watch against the Twins. I'll say it until I'm blue, no disciplin by anyone on our team. Heck the three rookies were more patient.

Seems like a waste of time to even go out on the field when you don't even want to try and win!

JC456
06-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Cards:

Very true the Twins have a terrible post season record. Of course at least they are getting a chance to lose games in the post season while the Sox are out on the golf course.

Lip
And they are getting there every year stepping all over the White Sox!

billcissell
06-16-2011, 11:35 AM
By definition, a rivalry between two teams usually means an emotionally charged match up between heated competitors who are fairly evenly matched with both teams trying to capture the same prize.

Since we're 7-27 against the Twins over the last few years, this rivalry has become somewhat one-sided.

Yes, over the last ten years or so I would consider the Twins our number one rival, especially since we both contend in the same division.

Going back, the Sox and Yankees had a very strong rivalry through the 50s and into the mid-60s. Then both teams floundered and the rivalry cooled off. In 1969 the Sox were put in the Western Division and the Yankees were placed in the East, which automatically threw water on this rivalry.

Through the 70s the Oakland As and the Sox had a pretty good rivalry going. We also had a neighboring rivalry with the Brewers when they played in the AL.

Would the Sox-Cubs be considered a rivalry? Since we both play in the same city, yes. But in a broader sense, we compete in different leagues and play each other only 6 times a year. So games against the North Siders are important when it comes to local bragging rights, but not nearly as critical as games against division teams.

Yes, the Twins are our #1 rivals. Now if we could only start winning a few of these head-to-head contests, that would add some fuel to the fire.