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View Full Version : *Official* Sox have lost one in a row official freak out thread


Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2011, 10:18 PM
Gag here

JermaineDye05
06-15-2011, 10:18 PM
Did anyone really expect a different result?

DirtySox
06-15-2011, 10:18 PM
Beaten by the Rochester Red Wings.

Pathetic.

thomas35forever
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
We makes Twins fans glad they don't have to watch us.:angry:

russ99
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Yet again. Either our hitters are not prepared or they're ignoring what they're told. Either way...

Fire Walker! :angry:

Crooked Number
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Get the split tomorrow. Not gonna say anything else because it doesn't need to be said.

cleanwsox
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Typical Sox vs Twins game.

:anon:

And that is why I don't go and check them out when they come up here.

aryzner
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
What a waste of time.

Don't even suit up for the game tomorrow boys.

I'd rather forfeit.

JermaineDye05
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Don't point at the manager. It's surely not his fault. It's all a coincidence.

amsteel
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
At least it will only be a 2 game sweep

HaroMaster87
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
well im just here to :tiphat:

ChiSoxGal85
06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Why don't the Sox just forfeit the Twins games? Only a shell of themselves ever bothers to show up.

At least the game was over quickly, due to Pavano's efficiency in putting away the Meek Sox and the absence of Joe "I visit the mound every 3rd pitch, like it or not" Mauer behind the plate.
:puking:

vinny
06-15-2011, 10:20 PM
:chunks

That is all.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Boy, am I looking forward to my TBGR debut tomorrow, writing about how the AAA Twins handily dispose of the Sox.

Thanks, chisoxfanatic!

cws05champ
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
I hate the Twins.....

Mental block by this team in Minny...even with different players. Unbelievable!!

HaroMaster87
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Typical Sox vs Twins game.

:anon:

And that is why I don't go and check them out when they come up here.

Gotta be real tough being a Sox fan living up there...So sorry...

JB98
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
33-36. You are what your record says you are.

6-10 against the supposedly weak AL Central, and that's with a 4-1 mark against Cleveland.

We stink.

tstrike2000
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Like I said in the game thread, there's no way we should be losing to a lineup like that. Of course with our brilliant offensive approach, we do nothing with a crappy pitcher like Pavano. TCQ just waving on that breaking pitch for strike 3 pretty much sums it up. Can we please beat these *******s, please???

DrCrawdad
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Worthless offense.

The Twins absolute dominance over the Sox continues...

thomas35forever
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
What a waste of time.

Don't even suit up for the game tomorrow boys.

I'd rather forfeit.
I wouldn't mind that actually.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
The only thing missing from this game being the 2011 White Sox offense highlight reel was botched bunts.

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Only Cuddyer, Young and Vanlencia to watch out for, and they are the ones who beat us. Pathetic.

And the offense? Absolutely ****ing clueless.

The twinkees are hot LOOK OUT!!! .......NOT!

voodoochile
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1. Best chance the Sox had all night Pavano snagged the liner to shut down the rally in the ninth. That gets through who knows, but it wasn't to be.

Chicken Dinner
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
2 hours and 6 minutes........are you kidding me?

JB98
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Boy, am I looking forward to my TBGR debut tomorrow, writing about how the AAA Twins handily dispose of the Sox.

Thanks, chisoxfanatic!


You wanna write tonight's instead?

DirtySox
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
At least Ozzie provided some entertainment by hilariously issuing an IBB to some guy named Brian Dinkelman.

veeter
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Sox are pathetic. I guess being a Vancouver Canucks fan would be worse.

Dibbs
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Ozzie needs to go.

russ99
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
I hate the Twins.....

Mental block by this team in Minny...even with different players. Unbelievable!!

These guys have all faced Pavano. This is inexcusable.

Just swing for the fences, guys, everything will be OK...

HaroMaster87
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Why don't the Sox just forfeit the Twins games? Only a shell of themselves ever bothers to show up.

At least the game was over quickly, due to Pavano's efficiency in putting away the Meek Sox and the absence of Joe "I visit the mound every 3rd pitch, like it or not" Mauer behind the plate.
:puking:

I literally LOL'd...

JermaineDye05
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1. Best chance the Sox had all night Pavano snagged the liner to shut down the rally in the ninth. That gets through who knows, but it wasn't to be.

Bull****.

The Sox offense was just downright pathetic as usual.

Pavano had the same sequence to about every batter, and yet they still kept trying to pull that ball on the outside corner.

Foulke You
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
Pavano didn't even look that dominating yet he somehow was. Just like our game against Liriano. The Sox just fold up the tent when they play the Twins. The only two guys who had a good approach tonight were Paulie and Dunn. Both of them took walks and hit the ball hard up the middle and the other way. Quentin looked like he had never seen a breaking ball before tonight. Pierre was awful other than the 9th inning deflection single. Terrible...just terrible.:angry:

thomas35forever
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/LaVelleNeal/status/81184014219739137

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
You wanna write tonight's instead?

LOL, at least I can hope I'm wrong about tomorrow.

arKnaD7
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
It seemed like every 1st pitch fastball down the middle from Pavano was taken while 1st pitch sliders in the dirt were swung at and missed.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game.

Ha.

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 10:24 PM
Like I said in the game thread, there's no way we should be losing to a lineup like that. Of course with our brilliant offensive approach, we do nothing with a crappy pitcher like Pavano. TCQ just waving on that breaking pitch for strike 3 pretty much sums it up. Can we please beat these *******s, please???

Don't forget AJ swinging at a pitch that was heading for his ****ing neck.

Really AJ, what exactly were you trying to do, foul off an 0-1 pitch, that was a sure ball????

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2011, 10:24 PM
It seemed like every 1st pitch fastball down the middle from Pavano was taken while 1st pitch sliders in the dirt were swung at and missed.

Greg Walker works hard.

russ99
06-15-2011, 10:24 PM
Soft-tossers are like the Sox hitters' kryptonite.

JB98
06-15-2011, 10:24 PM
LOL, at least I can hope I'm wrong about tomorrow.

Fortunately, tonight's pretty much writes itself. They lost to Rochester, for God's sake.

ChiSoxGal85
06-15-2011, 10:25 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1. Best chance the Sox had all night Pavano snagged the liner to shut down the rally in the ninth. That gets through who knows, but it wasn't to be.
I had to laugh a little...was Paulie aiming for some payback for last year? :rolling: (Nah, he got his payback hitting the HR off Pavano his next AB.)

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2011, 10:25 PM
Soft-tossers are like the Sox' kryptonite.

Greg Walker is the Sox' kryptonite.

JermaineDye05
06-15-2011, 10:25 PM
Bring up the tank already. This offense needs a spark.

I'm fairly confident he won't be taking pitches right down the middle.

1989
06-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Our situational hitting needs some serious work

dwitt76
06-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Can we beat these guys once this year?

russ99
06-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Our situational hitting needs some serious work

Just having our situational hitting show up wouldn't hurt.

Soxman219
06-15-2011, 10:27 PM
The Sox haven't beat the Twins in a series since June 2008.:o:

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2011, 10:28 PM
Greg Walker would turn Derek Jeter into a meatball taking, slider in the dirt chasing, pull everything, GIDP producing, .240 hitter.

TheOldRoman
06-15-2011, 10:30 PM
Ridiculous, embarrassing, disgusting... this game really was the Sox season in a nutshell. Once again the Sox forgot that Pavano isn't a good pitcher. Allowing a pitcher to pitch a complete game with only 96 pitches (and about 15 of those coming in the 9th) is inexcusable. At least we didn't waste a good performance from Floyd. When you are facing a team missing its FOUR best hitters, you shouldn't be giving up 4 runs.

As was said before, the Twins are garbage right now. They are injured garbage. You have to do what you can to bury the Twins as much as possible in the first half, because we have seen before how they catch fire in the second half. Mauer, Morneau, Span and Thome will be back, and the Twins will be there at the end of the season. If the Sox get their heads out of their asses long enough to be in a position to blow another division title to the Twins this season, games like this are really going to come back to haunt them.

billyvsox
06-15-2011, 10:30 PM
Our situational hitting needs some serious work

Ya think

Hitmen77
06-15-2011, 10:32 PM
Did anyone really expect a different result?

Nope.

Yesterday: Tip your cap to Mother Nature :tiphat:
Today: Tip your cap to the crappy Twins :tiphat:

Who on the Twins are we going to tip our caps to tomorrow afternoon?

:whiteflag::tiphat::whiteflag::tiphat::puking:

kevingrt
06-15-2011, 10:32 PM
Pavano is just an ace what are you going to do?

1989
06-15-2011, 10:33 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1. Best chance the Sox had all night Pavano snagged the liner to shut down the rally in the ninth. That gets through who knows, but it wasn't to be.

Pavano was all over the middle of the plate. He was lucky we got ourselves out. It's amazing how we continuously flailed at that splitter low and away when Pavano's fastball was never sitting in the upper 80s and straight as an arrow. Our plan of attack should of been to sit offspeed and adjust to the fastball.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/location.php-pitchSel=134321&game=gid_2011_06_15_chamlb_minmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif

StillMissOzzie
06-15-2011, 10:33 PM
2nd and 3rd with nobody out in the 9th and can't push in even one? That is so 2011 Chicago White Sox.

SMO
:angry:

Crestani
06-15-2011, 10:33 PM
Can anyone remember the last time the Sox scored with a sacrifice fly..??

thomas35forever
06-15-2011, 10:34 PM
My Twins fan cousin tweeted me that at least our last World Series title was much more recent and that we don't have to watch our club get swept out of the playoffs by the Yankees year after year. Guess it could indeed be worse.

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 10:34 PM
Bring up the tank already. This offense needs a spark.

I'm fairly confident he won't be taking pitches right down the middle.

Absolutely x 99999999999999999.

Just the sound the ball makes coming off his bat would be worth a trip to the park.

Brian26
06-15-2011, 10:36 PM
Can we beat these guys once this year?

We have 15 more games with them this year. I know the 0-3 start against Minnesota seems rough, but the hyperbolic reaction here is a bit much. The Sox always have trouble with Pavano. Let's get them tomorrow and move on. Minnesota sucks this year and won't be anything to worry about the rest of the way.

TheOldRoman
06-15-2011, 10:37 PM
Pavano was all over the middle of the plate. He was lucky we got ourselves out. It's amazing how we continuously flailed at that splitter low and away when Pavano's fastball was never sitting in the upper 80s and straight as an arrow. Our plan of attack should of been to sit offspeed and adjust to the fastball.

Are you arguing that the Sox came into the game with a horrible approach and failed to adjust? That's so unlike them.

HaroMaster87
06-15-2011, 10:38 PM
My Twins fan cousin tweeted me that at least our last World Series title was much more recent and that we don't have to watch our club get swept out of the playoffs by the Yankees year after year. Guess it could indeed be worse.

Those are my 2 comebacks with the twins fan at work...

russ99
06-15-2011, 10:38 PM
Pavano was all over the middle of the plate. He was lucky we got ourselves out. It's amazing how we continuously flailed at that splitter low and away when Pavano's fastball was never sitting in the upper 80s and straight as an arrow. Our plan of attack should of been to sit offspeed and adjust to the fastball.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/location.php-pitchSel=134321&game=gid_2011_06_15_chamlb_minmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif

How sad is it that we know this and our hitters don't?

CHISOXFAN13
06-15-2011, 10:38 PM
We have 15 more games with them this year. I know the 0-3 start against Minnesota seems rough, but the hyperbolic reaction here is a bit much. The Sox always have trouble with Pavano. Let's get them tomorrow and move on. Minnesota sucks this year and won't be anything to worry about the rest of the way.

Yes they do. Problem is, the Tigers have taken advantage of them (5-0), and the Sox haven't.

Lose tomorrow and the Sox are closer to last place than they are to first.

Nelfox02
06-15-2011, 10:39 PM
Sox are pathetic. I guess being a Vancouver Canucks fan would be worse.


tonight maybe.....but at least their team was in the cup final.....when the dust settles on this sox season, will we all be proud that our boys finished in third place? (hopefully) whee!!!!

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 10:40 PM
We have 15 more games with them this year. I know the 0-3 start against Minnesota seems rough, but the hyperbolic reaction here is a bit much. The Sox always have trouble with Pavano. Let's get them tomorrow and move on. Minnesota sucks this year and won't be anything to worry about the rest of the way.

The last time we faced Pavano we had 15 hits off him because we jumped on the fastball early in the count. Our "troubles" against him should have been over.

Mohoney
06-15-2011, 10:41 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1. Best chance the Sox had all night Pavano snagged the liner to shut down the rally in the ninth. That gets through who knows, but it wasn't to be.

His slider had good movement, but he was helped out WAY too much by hitters swinging at pitches that were nowhere near the strike zone. Nobody seemed to make any kind of adjustment as the game progressed.

Brian26
06-15-2011, 10:42 PM
Mauer, Morneau, Span and Thome will be back, and the Twins will be there at the end of the season.

Morneau is toast, and Mauer's mysterious ailments have people in Minnesota scratching their heads.

BainesHOF
06-15-2011, 10:43 PM
A.J. is a joke behind the plate. How much longer are we going to let teams rob us blind? It's hard to win close games when the opponent steals bases at will.

We fight the Twins' fire by keeping Lillibridge on the bench. I'm sure Gardenhire would put him to use.

Brian26
06-15-2011, 10:45 PM
Yes they do. Problem is, the Tigers have taken advantage of them (5-0), and the Sox haven't.

I'm more concerned about the mediocre showing against Detroit two weekends ago where the Sox settled for one win out of three when they could have easily won two if not swept.

Too early to be upset about one lousy game though.

DirtySox
06-15-2011, 10:45 PM
A.J. is a joke behind the plate. How much longer are we going to let teams rob us blind? It's hard to win close games when the opponent steals bases at will.

We fight the Twins' fire by keeping Lillibridge on the bench. I'm sure Gardenhire would put him to use.

AJ is a joke period. The apologists will blame his pitcher every time without question though.

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 10:46 PM
Morneau is toast, and Mauer's mysterious ailments have people in Minnesota scratching their heads.

Yeah, the twinks were 20 under while Morneau and Span were there, it's after the scrubs came in that they won 10 of 12. Also, their pitching is too thin, they won't win the division.

TheOldRoman
06-15-2011, 10:46 PM
A.J. is a joke behind the plate. How much longer are we going to let teams rob us blind? It's hard to win close games when the opponent steals bases at will.

We fight the Twins' fire by keeping Lillibridge on the bench. I'm sure Gardenhire would put him to use.Ivan Roidriguez in his prime wouldn't throw runners out at a respectable rate with Floyd's slow delivery and total disregard for holding runners.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:48 PM
Too early to be upset about one lousy game though.

Correct. Luckily, we have many, many more lousy games than one to be upset about.

Irishsox1
06-15-2011, 10:48 PM
It doesn't matter who we have or who they have, the Twins own the Sox. The Sox are now 11-28 against the Twins since 2009.

SoxSpeed22
06-15-2011, 10:49 PM
How annoying.

TheOldRoman
06-15-2011, 10:50 PM
AJ is a joke period. The apologists will blame his pitcher every time without question though.AJ is average to slightly below average at throwing runners out. However, many of the Sox pitchers during his tenure have had slow deliveries and not held runners on. Contreras, Garcia, Floyd, Jenks. It is ridiculous to claim that the pitchers don't have a huge impact on stolen bases.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:50 PM
Ivan Roidriguez in his prime wouldn't throw runners out at a respectable rate with Floyd's slow delivery and total disregard for holding runners.

Maybe, but I still think managers would hesitate to run on Rodriguez.

I'd run maybe 90%+ of the hitters in the majors on AJ. And I'd probably start off running the other 10% or so, too, until he showed he could throw them out.

EDIT: I actually looked up his CS% and it didn't really fall off til he left Minnesota. He is routinely near the bottom since, and currently (before tonight) was third to last among AL starters (Jaso and Santana were worse).

Quentin08
06-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Tonight wasn't a case of the Twins owning the Sox. It was just another case of the Sox owning themselves. A high school team could've probably beat the Sox tonight. Absolutely pathetic!

cws05champ
06-15-2011, 10:55 PM
Maybe, but I still think managers would hesitate to run on Rodriguez.

I'd run maybe 90%+ of the hitters in the majors on AJ. And I'd probably start off running the other 10% or so, too, until he showed he could throw them out.
You can't allow Cuddeyer to steal a base...it's as simple as that.

ChiSoxGirl
06-15-2011, 10:56 PM
I hate the Twins.....

Mental block by this team in Minny...even with different players. Unbelievable!!

As we saw tonight, it doesn't matter who wears the Twins uniforms; the Sox still get embarrassed and their asses handed to them. Dinklelman, Revere, Hughes, Butera.... Who the hell are these dudes?! Regardless, those no-names owned the Sox tonight. The pornstache rides again. :mad:

And oh, by the way... four GIDPs?! The Sox can't get out of their own way with their rally-killing ways. PATHETIC!!!

1989
06-15-2011, 10:56 PM
Win tomorrow, get out of Minnesota with the same record that we came in with, and head to interleague play where we do work.

Who knows? Viciedo comes in, gets the left field job, and gives us the boost we need.

This isn't the end of the world. Stop melting down.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:56 PM
You can't allow Cuddeyer to steal a base...it's as simple as that.

Hey, he averages 7 a season!

kittle42
06-15-2011, 10:57 PM
Who knows? Viciedo comes in, gets the left field job, and gives us the boost we need.

I still don't see him being brought in anytime soon, though I hope I am wrong.

HaroMaster87
06-15-2011, 10:57 PM
You can't allow Cuddeyer to steal a base...it's as simple as that.

he didnt steal "a" base...he stole 3!!

guillensdisciple
06-15-2011, 10:58 PM
I don't know why so many people on this board got excited and so many jumped to the we're back in it bus. Fact remains that the White Sox SUCK against their division, and last I checked we play those guys a crop load during the season.

The White Sox, as stated a thousand times before, are the same ****ty ass rerun year after year. We'll float, make someone say oh wow we will do extremely well, and then we'll sink. Just like we have year after year. I expect the sink to come sooner this year because, unlike years prior to this one, we suck balls against EVERYONE in this division and that sure as hell won't cut it.

I am not by any means throwing in the towel, but I am going to go ahead and say that if the White Sox do not win tomorrow then the season is a wash. Yes, plenty of games left, but the facts are out there and this will not turn itself around no matter how hard anyone tries to believe it. Win tomorrow, and begin redeeming yourself against your division.

Also, if the Twins win tomorrow, I honestly do believe they will win this division thus showing the absolute **** fest that is the White Sox and the rest of the central. Funny thing is, they'll choke in the playoffs. Man, this organization is such a piece of ****.

Foulke You
06-15-2011, 10:59 PM
I'm more concerned about the mediocre showing against Detroit two weekends ago where the Sox settled for one win out of three when they could have easily won two if not swept.

Too early to be upset about one lousy game though.
I'm more upset at our offensive approach tonight than anything. Too many games this year we have been baffled by a starter with less than stellar stuff with no adjustment whatsoever. Liriano's no hitter was a joke, both starts by Brad Penny, the Kyle Drabek start where he threw only fastballs, the Ted Lilly start a few weeks ago all come to mind. We fall into a pathetic pattern and the game might as well be forfeit. I don't mind when we get shut down by a dominating pitching performance. The Ogando game against the Rangers was an example of a pitcher who was just nasty and would have shut anyone down that night. It's the ones like tonight that really bother me.

SoxSpeed22
06-15-2011, 11:01 PM
he didnt steal "a" base...he stole 3!!And that led to him scoring twice. It's fun to give away free bases.

palehozenychicty
06-15-2011, 11:01 PM
We have 15 more games with them this year. I know the 0-3 start against Minnesota seems rough, but the hyperbolic reaction here is a bit much. The Sox always have trouble with Pavano. Let's get them tomorrow and move on. Minnesota sucks this year and won't be anything to worry about the rest of the way.

It is a bit much. They are not playing well and are injured. We're just inconsistent.

But I understand. It' s just embarrassing to lose to one franchise in such a noncompetitive fashion year after year, World Series run notwithstanding. I would like to see us start going after their hitters a little more. Enough is enough. If a beanball war has to start, so be it.

southsideirish71
06-15-2011, 11:02 PM
Win tomorrow, get out of Minnesota with the same record that we came in with, and head to interleague play where we do work.

Who knows? Viciedo comes in, gets the left field job, and gives us the boost we need.

This isn't the end of the world. Stop melting down.

The only way that Viciedo gets playing time is if KW releases Pierre. For years Ozzie has wanted a slappy speedy leadoff hitter based on his 2003 experience with the Marlins. Ozzie had Owens as the starter out of ST a few years ago, only injury kept that from happening and allowed for Quentin to start. Then we had the Dewayne Wise, because he looks the part, leadoff experiment. So now we have acquired the original mold of what Ozzie wants to design his offense around. Do you really think that he is going to give up on that. Ozzie doesn't know how an offense can function without his slappy speed guy up on top.

If this was common sense Viciedo would be in LF right now. My fear is that he is trade bait for another vet so we can go all in.

russ99
06-15-2011, 11:03 PM
Win tomorrow, get out of Minnesota with the same record that we came in with, and head to interleague play where we do work.

This isn't the end of the world. Stop melting down.

I'm not melting down, I still have plenty of hope that this team is well over .500 at the break, and I can't wait to see them play the Nats next weekend.

Yet it's very frustrating that our players keep repeating the same mistakes.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 11:03 PM
I am not by any means throwing in the towel

The rest of your post disagrees.

but I am going to go ahead and say that if the White Sox do not win tomorrow then the season is a wash. Yes, plenty of games left, but the facts are out there and this will not turn itself around no matter how hard anyone tries to believe it. Win tomorrow, and begin redeeming yourself against your division.

Also, if the Twins win tomorrow, I honestly do believe they will win this division thus showing the absolute **** fest that is the White Sox and the rest of the central. Funny thing is, they'll choke in the playoffs. Man, this organization is such a piece of ****.

I in no way think the Sox have much of a team this season, and I have felt that way since mid-April, but seriously, how do you live through 162 games? It must kill you.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 11:05 PM
The only way that Viciedo gets playing time is if KW releases Pierre. For years Ozzie has wanted a slappy speedy leadoff hitter based on his 2003 experience with the Marlins. Ozzie had Owens as the starter out of ST a few years ago, only injury kept that from happening and allowed for Quentin to start. Then we had the Dewayne Wise, because he looks the part, leadoff experiment. So now we have acquired the original mold of what Ozzie wants to design his offense around. Do you really think that he is going to give up on that. Ozzie doesn't know how an offense can function without his slappy speed guy up on top.

"It worked in 2005. Thus, it must work all the time." - Mantra of Ozzie Guillen and a good portion of Sox fans.

1989
06-15-2011, 11:06 PM
I don't know why so many people on this board got excited and so many jumped to the we're back in it bus. Fact remains that the White Sox SUCK against their division, and last I checked we play those guys a crop load during the season.

The White Sox, as stated a thousand times before, are the same ****ty ass rerun year after year. We'll float, make someone say oh wow we will do extremely well, and then we'll sink. Just like we have year after year. I expect the sink to come sooner this year because, unlike years prior to this one, we suck balls against EVERYONE in this division and that sure as hell won't cut it.

I am not by any means throwing in the towel, but I am going to go ahead and say that if the White Sox do not win tomorrow then the season is a wash. Yes, plenty of games left, but the facts are out there and this will not turn itself around no matter how hard anyone tries to believe it. Win tomorrow, and begin redeeming yourself against your division.

Also, if the Twins win tomorrow, I honestly do believe they will win this division thus showing the absolute **** fest that is the White Sox and the rest of the central. Funny thing is, they'll choke in the playoffs. Man, this organization is such a piece of ****.

You're insane. Not only are the twins done this season, but if the Mauer/Morneau duo has already peaked, the Twins are ****ed. Too much money for a non-big market team to sink into declining assets. It's still too early, of course.

russ99
06-15-2011, 11:07 PM
The only way that Viciedo gets playing time is if KW releases Pierre. For years Ozzie has wanted a slappy speedy leadoff hitter based on his 2003 experience with the Marlins. Ozzie had Owens as the starter out of ST a few years ago, only injury kept that from happening and allowed for Quentin to start. Then we had the Dewayne Wise, because he looks the part, leadoff experiment. So now we have acquired the original mold of what Ozzie wants to design his offense around. Do you really think that he is going to give up on that. Ozzie doesn't know how an offense can function without his slappy speed guy up on top.

If this was common sense Viciedo would be in LF right now. My fear is that he is trade bait for another vet so we can go all in.

A large majority of our losses this year were due to our run producers failing to get runs in. It's happened over and over. Our guys are getting on base enough to win.

Despite the idea that he'd be a white knight for the offense, Viciedo with his poor strike zone judgement, lack of walks and tons of strikeouts would just be more of the same. But he'd hit a few pretty home runs, which is what baseball is all about.

russ99
06-15-2011, 11:08 PM
"It worked in 2005. Thus, it must work all the time." - Mantra of Ozzie Guillen and a good portion of Sox fans.

Our home run hitters really helped us tonight... just sayin.

southsideirish71
06-15-2011, 11:08 PM
A large majority of our losses this year were due to our run producers failing to get runs in. It's happened over and over. Our guys are getting on base enough to win.

Despite the idea that he'd be a white knight for the offense, Viciedo with his poor strike zone judgement, lack of walks and tons of strikeouts would just be more of the same.

So you believe that Viciedo versus Pierre is a push.

DirtySox
06-15-2011, 11:11 PM
A large majority of our losses this year were due to our run producers failing to get runs in. It's happened over and over. Our guys are getting on base enough to win.

Despite the idea that he'd be a white knight for the offense, Viciedo with his poor strike zone judgement, lack of walks and tons of strikeouts would just be more of the same.

Dayan has shown improvement in his strike zone judgement. After having a BB rate of 4.3% and 3.9% in past years, he's sitting at 6% this season. He isn't suddenly going to be an OBP machine, but he is indeed improving. And "tons of strikeouts" is pretty much incorrect. He has a 17.6 K% right now which is quite acceptable for a slugger.

russ99
06-15-2011, 11:12 PM
So you believe that Viciedo versus Pierre is a push.

If Pierre were playing at his usual level, he'd be the better option. He rarely strikes out, puts the ball in play, and puts the team in position to score runs.

He's not playing at his usual level, so I'd like to see him platoon with Lillibridge.

That said, I'd like to see Viciedo play every day next year, especially if the Sox can add a younger and better leadoff bat at a different position.

soltrain21
06-15-2011, 11:13 PM
So you believe that Viciedo versus Pierre is a push.

I see what you did there. And hey, at least Dayan wouldn't be thrown out stealing once we gets on base.

russ99
06-15-2011, 11:15 PM
Dayan has shown improvement in his strike zone judgement. After having a BB rate of 4.3% and 3.9% in past years, he's sitting at 6% this season. He isn't suddenly going to be an OBP machine, but he is indeed improving. And "tons of strikeouts" is pretty much incorrect. He has a 17.6 K% right now which is quite acceptable for a slugger.

True, but that's against AAA pitching. He has shown improvement, so why call him up and stunt his development to play part time?

If a regular outfielder (or Dunn/Konerko) were injured, I'd be all for it, otherwise, why rush him?

PalehosePlanet
06-15-2011, 11:16 PM
I see what you did there. And hey, at least Dayan wouldn't be thrown out stealing once we gets on base.

Juan doesn't even try to steal any more. He likes to keep the double-play in order.

JB98
06-15-2011, 11:18 PM
A large majority of our losses this year were due to our run producers failing to get runs in. It's happened over and over. Our guys are getting on base enough to win.

Despite the idea that he'd be a white knight for the offense, Viciedo with his poor strike zone judgement, lack of walks and tons of strikeouts would just be more of the same. But he'd hit a few pretty home runs, which is what baseball is all about.

Our 2-3-4 hitters are the only guys in this lineup worth a damn.

It's the rest of the guys that are the problem. We have ZERO length to our lineup. It is very easy to pitch to.

If TCQ and Paulie don't get it done, it isn't getting done. And nobody is good enough to do it everyday. That's not how baseball works.

Viciedo is MLB ready. It's time to find out what we have in him.

DirtySox
06-15-2011, 11:18 PM
True, but that's against AAA pitching. He has shown improvement, so why call him up and stunt his development to play part time?

If a regular outfielder (or Dunn/Konerko) were injured, I'd be all for it, otherwise, why rush him?

I personally don't think he's being rushed. I'm quite sure the bat is ready. The defense maybe not so much, as it's hard to get an accurate assessment of it. The fact of the matter is Juan Pierre is very bad at baseball and is getting the most AB's on the team, which is absolutely ridiculous. He should be blocking no one at this point.

JB98
06-15-2011, 11:20 PM
I personally don't think he's being rushed. I'm quite sure the bat is ready. The defense maybe not so much, as it's hard to get an accurate assessment of it. The fact of the matter is Juan Pierre is very bad at baseball and is getting the most AB's on the team, which is absolutely ridiculous. He should be blocking no one at this point.

No question. No question at all.

Not to mention, Pierzynski is batting fifth in this lineup. If that isn't proof that this offense needs help, I don't know what is.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 11:25 PM
Our home run hitters really helped us tonight... just sayin.

Big difference between a team feeling it needs some power hitters (every team does need some power hitters) and a team stubbornly believing it needs a "prototypical leadoff guy." This isn't just about the great Juan Pierre. It is an indictment of the Sox' organizational philosophy.

kittle42
06-15-2011, 11:27 PM
If Pierre were playing at his usual level, he'd be the better option. He rarely strikes out, puts the ball in play, and puts the team in position to score runs.

He's not playing at his usual level, so I'd like to see him platoon with Lillibridge.

Based on current personnel, I agree.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2011, 11:32 PM
Soxman 219:

Actually the Sox took 2 of 3 from the Twins in May 2009. Still almost as bad.

Lip

Lip Man 1
06-15-2011, 11:39 PM
No Mauer, no Morneau, no Thome, No Span, no Kubel, no Nathan (did I miss anybody???)

No problem.

Same ****, different day.

I challenge ANYBODY who thinks the Twins aren’t in the White Sox heads to explain HOW a team with the talent the Sox has CONSISTENTLY loses to Minnesota. The Twins have now won 16 of 21. That’s not luck kids.

It doesn’t matter the field, it doesn’t matter the pitcher, it doesn’t matter who they have in the lineup (I didn’t recognize half of the stiffs they had playing…) from Hunter ramming Burke to Young trying to cheap shot A.J. to Pavano hitting Konerko in the face, they are intimidating the White Sox in every way, shape and form.

From the broadcasters, to Ozzie to the players, they get so tight playing these guys you can’t pull a needle out of their asses with a tractor.

Forget about any postseason talk. If they can’t beat the Tigers and Twins and this year they’ve lost 8 of 9 to them they aren’t doing ****.

Lip

captain54
06-15-2011, 11:51 PM
Pavano pitched a heck of a game. He was at 60 pitches through 6.1.

No he didn't... You just happened to witness some Classic WalkerBall tonite..

Jurr
06-15-2011, 11:57 PM
No he didn't... You just happened to witness some Classic WalkerBall tonite..

Or Von Joshua ball...or Gary Wardball.
I believe the problem runs deeper.

Hitmen77
06-16-2011, 12:08 AM
I'm more concerned about the mediocre showing against Detroit two weekends ago where the Sox settled for one win out of three when they could have easily won two if not swept.

Too early to be upset about one lousy game though.

It's actually 8 lousy games out of 9 vs. the Twins and Tigers so far this year.

JB98
06-16-2011, 12:09 AM
It's actually 8 lousy games out of 9 vs. the Twins and Tigers so far this year.

And 38-50 vs. the AL Central since Opening Day 2010.

canOcorn
06-16-2011, 12:13 AM
And 38-50 vs. the AL Central since Opening Day 2010.

You just have to tip your cap to the outstanding pitching staffs in the AL Central the last two years. :rolleyes:

Ozzie tips his cap to Gardy and the batters tip their caps to Pavano. :ralph:

captain54
06-16-2011, 12:15 AM
Or Von Joshua ball...or Gary Wardball.
I believe the problem runs deeper.

OK...sorry I forgot....I'm just a fan and I don't really know what I hitting coach does so I have no right to blame Walker... Whatever offensive approach they had tonight totally worked... 4 GIDP and several failed chances to get the runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs

the problem does run deeper.... a coach who is the least effective of the three in question gets a lifetime pass...

TDog
06-16-2011, 12:39 AM
The Twins have won 10 of their last 12 games. They are hottest team in baseball. The Sox lost tonight because Floyd didn't pitch particularly well. Pavano has been pitching well and leads the league in complete games.

The difference in the game, though, was the Twins' stolen bases. The Twins' stolen bases, specifically the double steal before the two-run single. Judging from the replay I saw, if the infielders are playing at what you would expect for double play depth with runners on first and second instead of playing for a possible play at the plate with runners at second and third, the ground ball might not leave the infield and the Sox have a shot at a double play.

Offensively, the White Sox are hitting into too many double plays because they are a station-to-station team. They were no-hit by Liriano in large part because they hit into three double plays. That's an inning less of hitters you have to retire.

People complain about the Sox running into outs, giving up outs on the bases, but hitting into double plays is giving up outs on the bases.

I don't know if Pierzynski is to blame or Floyd isn't holding runners, but the Twins won tonight because they apparently stole at will against the Sox. Tomorrow, Castro will be catching and Buehrle will be pitching, which would seem a tougher battery to run on.

TheOldRoman
06-16-2011, 12:47 AM
The Twins have won 10 of their last 12 games. They are hottest team in baseball. The Sox lost tonight because Floyd didn't pitch particularly well. Pavano has been pitching well and leads the league in complete games.

The difference in the game, though, was the Twins' stolen bases. The Twins' stolen bases, specifically the double steal before the two-run single. Judging from the replay I saw, if the infielders are playing at what you would expect for double play depth with runners on first and second instead of playing for a possible play at the plate with runners at second and third, the ground ball might not leave the infield and the Sox have a shot at a double play.

Offensively, the White Sox are hitting into too many double plays because they are a station-to-station team. They were no-hit by Liriano in large part because they hit into three double plays. That's an inning less of hitters you have to retire.

People complain about the Sox running into outs, giving up outs on the bases, but hitting into double plays is giving up outs on the bases.

I don't know if Pierzynski is to blame or Floyd isn't holding runners, but the Twins won tonight because they apparently stole at will against the Sox. Tomorrow, Castro will be catching and Buehrle will be pitching, which would seem a tougher battery to run on.Really? Really? Sure, Floyd wasn't good, but they got Pavano on a night he wasn't at his best and touched him for one run. You can't expect to win too many games scoring one run.

Soxman219
06-16-2011, 12:53 AM
Soxman 219:

Actually the Sox took 2 of 3 from the Twins in May 2009. Still almost as bad.

Lip

Oh, still though, 2 years without beating the Twins in a series.

canOcorn
06-16-2011, 01:11 AM
Really? Really? Sure, Floyd wasn't good, but they got Pavano on a night he wasn't at his best and touched him for one run. You can't expect to win too many games scoring one run.

TDog watches the game via Gamecast/ESPN, Yahoo, ect. He/She isn't actually watching or seeing the game.

Falstaff
06-16-2011, 01:24 AM
How sad is it that we know this and our hitters don't?
Ya so we see from the pitch location graph that the Sox essentially gave away 7 outs, by hitting balls way out of strike zone that led to an out. Another 7 swinging strikes at balls way out of the zone. What would Ted Williams (or Frank Thomas, if he were new hitting coach) have to say about that approach at the plate?

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 01:29 AM
But remember Falstaff, firing any of the coaches and or manager won't do a damn thing even though it happens all the time in baseball. Houston just fired their pitching coach a few days ago...the White Sox know better than anybody else how to do things.

I mean just look at all their success the past ten years! That'll show em! (LOL)

Lip

hawkjt
06-16-2011, 02:19 AM
This is baseball,gang. The Twins just took 3 of 4 from the defending AL Champs,Texas. Fans on here are saying the Twins are garbage...it is baseball,where even garbage teams get hot like 10 of 12 wins as the twins have,and that means they are going to be hard to beat at this point in time...are the Rangers garbage? How could they lose to a garbage team like the Twins?

Sox are still 4.5 games back,just like when they entered the day.
Sox have to forget tonite,and win tomorrow. 93 games to make up tonites loss.

guillensdisciple
06-16-2011, 03:09 AM
The rest of your post disagrees.



I in no way think the Sox have much of a team this season, and I have felt that way since mid-April, but seriously, how do you live through 162 games? It must kill you.


Nah, I just always restore faith. I'll say they will lose but then I'll have this pump myself up moment and start believing again. Buy myself a car flag or a hat and think I am proud to be a Sox fan and they will show me right.

They rarely do, but they're my team. No matter how mad they make me, I will still be there to watch.

TDog
06-16-2011, 03:52 AM
Really? Really? Sure, Floyd wasn't good, but they got Pavano on a night he wasn't at his best and touched him for one run. You can't expect to win too many games scoring one run.

Usually when White Sox put a runner on base tonight, they hit into double plays. Pavano only had to retire two hitters in four innings. In the ninth, he got two of the top RBI men in the American League this season with runners on second and third, although a pair of sacrifice flies wouldn't have helped the Sox win the game at that point. Pierzynski would have been the tying run with two outs either way.

Quentin and Konerko have been dangerous hitters of late. If Pavano shut them down, he must have had something.

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2011, 06:40 AM
I am neither freaking out, nor responsible for the thread title.

Fan angst is not based on one loss. It is based on the repeated pattern of losing to Twins teams with inferior talent.

Twins coaches maximize talent. Sox coaches (not Cooper) waste it.

A. Cavatica
06-16-2011, 07:33 AM
Big difference between a team feeling it needs some power hitters (every team does need some power hitters) and a team stubbornly believing it needs a "prototypical leadoff guy." This isn't just about the great Juan Pierre. It is an indictment of the Sox' organizational philosophy.

The team does need a "prototypical leadoff guy". Look what Rudy Law meant to the 1983 team or Pods to the 2005 team. Unfortunately, they don't see that Pierre is horrible at getting on base and stealing bases.

miker
06-16-2011, 08:37 AM
Speaking of the Twins -- why can't we beat these guys?!?!?:tantrum:

(Well, other than some of the great reasons posted already: coaching, execution, holding on runners, etc.)

asindc
06-16-2011, 08:43 AM
Did anyone really expect a different result?

Yes, I did.

tstrike2000
06-16-2011, 08:45 AM
We have 15 more games with them this year. I know the 0-3 start against Minnesota seems rough, but the hyperbolic reaction here is a bit much. The Sox always have trouble with Pavano. Let's get them tomorrow and move on. Minnesota sucks this year and won't be anything to worry about the rest of the way.

You want to put that in writing? Oh wait, you did.

Sad
06-16-2011, 09:06 AM
Speaking of the Twins -- why can't we beat these guys?!?!?:tantrum:

(Well, other than some of the great reasons posted already: coaching, execution, holding on runners, etc.)

what a pathetic effort last night was... :angry:

Hitmen77
06-16-2011, 09:41 AM
I am neither freaking out, nor responsible for the thread title.

Fan angst is not based on one loss. It is based on the repeated pattern of losing to Twins teams with inferior talent.

Twins coaches maximize talent. Sox coaches (not Cooper) waste it.

Agreed. I know the mods changed the thread title, but saying fans are "freaking out" over losing one in a row is missing the point.

What are people angry at? How about 1-8 vs. the Twins and Tigers? There is also the oh-so-Sox 4 GIDPs yesterday. I won't even cite that vomit-inducing stat of the Sox record vs. the Twins over the last several years.

SI1020
06-16-2011, 09:54 AM
I am neither freaking out, nor responsible for the thread title.

Fan angst is not based on one loss. It is based on the repeated pattern of losing to Twins teams with inferior talent.

Twins coaches maximize talent. Sox coaches (not Cooper) waste it.
After 5 years of inconsistent, mediocre and lousy baseball I hardly think it's fair to say some are freaking out over one loss.

tstrike2000
06-16-2011, 10:02 AM
After 5 years of inconsistent, mediocre and lousy baseball I hardly think it's fair to say some are freaking out over one loss.

I'm definitely not freaking out either, just angry the Sox are 0-3 so far against a completely garbage team like the Twins.

Chez
06-16-2011, 10:41 AM
It's frustrating to continually lose to the Twins. But I'm still not buying the theory that the Sox players/organization fear the Twins or are not mentally tough enough to compete with Minnesota. I don't believe that the Boston Red Sox players /organization fear the White Sox or are not mentally tough enough to compete with the White Sox -- even though the White Sox have beaten Boston 13 out of the last 15 times they have played.

It simply comes down to talent and execution. Most years the Sox seemingly have the talent to compete with the Twins (though I feel that many posters have significantly undervalued the Twins talent over the years). The Twins' execution is FAR superior to the Sox's and that's why the Twins have owned the Sox in recent years.

Interestingly, since Ozzie took over in 2004, the Sox are 30-40 against Oakland and 21-35 against Toronto -- 2 teams who have been far worse than the Twins over that same time period. Not sure what to make of it; but I thought it was interesting to note that it's not just the Twins and Gardy who have kicked our asses during the Guillen era.

Win today and we will all feel better.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-16-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm not as much concerned about the loss as I am about the fact freakin Michael Cuddyer swiped 3 bags. A team that leads the majors in caught stealing while allowing other teams to run at will against them is at a huge competitive disadvantage. Even if they manage to win the crappy Central, they certainly aren't good enough to overcome that against the Red Sox, Yankees and Rangers in a playoff series.

PeteWard
06-16-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't know why so many people on this board got excited and so many jumped to the we're back in it bus. Fact remains that the White Sox SUCK against their division, and last I checked we play those guys a crop load during the season.

The White Sox, as stated a thousand times before, are the same ****ty ass rerun year after year. We'll float, make someone say oh wow we will do extremely well, and then we'll sink. Just like we have year after year. I expect the sink to come sooner this year because, unlike years prior to this one, we suck balls against EVERYONE in this division and that sure as hell won't cut it.

I am not by any means throwing in the towel, but I am going to go ahead and say that if the White Sox do not win tomorrow then the season is a wash. Yes, plenty of games left, but the facts are out there and this will not turn itself around no matter how hard anyone tries to believe it. Win tomorrow, and begin redeeming yourself against your division.

Also, if the Twins win tomorrow, I honestly do believe they will win this division thus showing the absolute **** fest that is the White Sox and the rest of the central. Funny thing is, they'll choke in the playoffs. Man, this organization is such a piece of ****.

Wow. The fate of four teams-Sox, Minn. Det & CLE decided by one game tomorrow, in June, in Minny. Maybe ESPN will grab it and move it to prime time? I mean, whatta big game.

kittle42
06-16-2011, 12:01 PM
The team does need a "prototypical leadoff guy". Look what Rudy Law meant to the 1983 team or Pods to the 2005 team. Unfortunately, they don't see that Pierre is horrible at getting on base and stealing bases.

And look how little some of of the guys in between meant to their teams. Ugh, just because something worked in 1983 and 2005 doesn't mean it should be the blueprint for baseball greatness.

JermaineDye05
06-16-2011, 12:03 PM
This thread title is misleading. People aren't freaking out because they've lost one in a row. It's because they've lost another game to a division rival. They also lost a game the same way they have for years now: helping out a **** pitcher by getting pull-happy.

Though they've made some strides, this team has shown me nothing to make me believe they will take this division. They've proven that they can only beat the Indians in the Central so far. If that's the case, it's going to be a long season.

PeteWard
06-16-2011, 12:10 PM
This thread title is misleading. People aren't freaking out because they've lost one in a row. It's because they've lost another game to a division rival. They also lost a game the same way they have for years now: helping out a **** pitcher by getting pull-happy.

Though they've made some strides, this team has shown me nothing to make me believe they will take this division. They've proven that they can only beat the Indians in the Central so far. If that's the case, it's going to be a long season.

Then do the right thing and stop watching. Or stop whining.

Mod Edit: Lets not take this there. I changed the name of the thread and people are going to be upset, but no reason to get personal on individual posters. -VC

BringHomeDaBacon
06-16-2011, 12:10 PM
And look how little some of of the guys in between meant to their teams. Ugh, just because something worked in 1983 and 2005 doesn't mean it should be the blueprint for baseball greatness.

And never mind that almost all of the pitchers on those teams had careers years or close to it. That had nothing to do with their success. It was all about Rudy Law and Scotty Pods.

guillensdisciple
06-16-2011, 03:13 PM
Wow. The fate of four teams-Sox, Minn. Det & CLE decided by one game tomorrow, in June, in Minny. Maybe ESPN will grab it and move it to prime time? I mean, whatta big game.

I assume you don't watch much white sox baseball. This team is very sensitive and can not handle adversity.

voodoochile
06-16-2011, 03:18 PM
I assume you don't watch much white sox baseball. This team is very sensitive and can not handle adversity.

The team that was all but dead in early May and now is in striking distance of the division lead while playing a hellacious May schedule cannot handle adversity?

kittle42
06-16-2011, 03:22 PM
The team that was all but dead in early May and now is in striking distance of the division lead while playing a hellacious May schedule cannot handle adversity?

Don't worry, VDC, they'll be back to early May territory soon enough.

voodoochile
06-16-2011, 03:22 PM
Don't worry, VDC, they'll be back to early May territory soon enough.

I'll take that bet...

guillensdisciple
06-16-2011, 03:27 PM
The team that was all but dead in early May and now is in striking distance of the division lead while playing a hellacious May schedule cannot handle adversity?


I don't think you understand that this team is 6-11 against the division. We have played the fewest games against our division and we suck against them and you think this team is going to all of a sudden break through.

Give me a break man, the signs are there- this is the same **** fest that we have seen for years on end. Except this time, we can brag that we payed 120 million dollars for it.

This team can't play the Twins or the Tigers. They can play the Red Sox and the Yankees though, so obviously there is a mental block. Unfortunately we don't play those guys that often and I bet if they were in our division we would lose to them too.

Mental weakness shows when you play those that you should beat.

Chez
06-16-2011, 03:50 PM
This team can't play the Twins or the Tigers. They can play the Red Sox and the Yankees though, so obviously there is a mental block. Unfortunately we don't play those guys that often and I bet if they were in our division we would lose to them too.

Mental weakness shows when you play those that you should beat.

And so, therefore, mental toughness shows when you play those teams who you shouldn't beat (like Boston and NYY)? Is this "analysis" just a one-way street or, more likely, total nonsense?

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 05:17 PM
Voodoo:

How much and what are the terms. I'll wager with you.

Lip

kittle42
06-16-2011, 05:19 PM
And so, therefore, mental toughness shows when you play those teams who you shouldn't beat (like Boston and NYY)? Is this "analysis" just a one-way street or, more likely, total nonsense?

Anything on these boards regarding mental toughness is generally total nonsense. Go see the James v. Luongo thread.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 05:36 PM
No it isn't.

Lip

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2011, 07:05 PM
Intangibles are for ******* according to most people here.
I've wanted change for a while, and I still do.

voodoochile
06-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Voodoo:

How much and what are the terms. I'll wager with you.

Lip

Well we don't allow cash betting but if you want to gamble signatures, I'll do it. I'm saying the Sox will not end up (edi: at least) 11 games under and (edit: at least) 11 games back at any point for the rest of the season.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2011, 07:24 PM
That's a fools bet. I don't think they will either.

Now how about winning the division? or even finishing above .500??

Right now I'm certainly willing to take that bet given how inconsistent and dead from the neck up they look.

Lip

voodoochile
06-16-2011, 07:28 PM
That's a fools bet. I don't think they will either.

Now how about winning the division? or even finishing above .500??

Right now I'm certainly willing to take that bet given how inconsistent and dead from the neck up they look.

Lip

Go back and read the thread. I never made any claims than what I offered to bet on.

I do think the Sox are still players to win the ALC regardless of the last two days.

captain54
06-16-2011, 10:38 PM
The team that was all but dead in early May and now is in striking distance of the division lead while playing a hellacious May schedule cannot handle adversity?

No matter which way you spin it, the Sox fanbase is eroding as we speak.. Any idea how many fans are fed up ? or just plain indifferent?
Lots and lots...once the football season kicks in and the Bears are in the news, the Sox will be a TOTAL non-issue in this town...mark my words..

I think its time for you to face the music, my friend...

voodoochile
06-17-2011, 01:54 AM
No matter which way you spin it, the Sox fanbase is eroding as we speak.. Any idea how many fans are fed up ? or just plain indifferent?
Lots and lots...once the football season kicks in and the Bears are in the news, the Sox will be a TOTAL non-issue in this town...mark my words..

I think its time for you to face the music, my friend...

LOL...

Seriously, do you believe this crap you type or is this just some persona you are playing?

captain54
06-17-2011, 02:29 AM
LOL...

Seriously, do you believe this crap you type or is this just some persona you are playing?

Step away from the computer for awhile...take a walk, take up a hobby..anything to take your mind off of this delusion that the 11' Sox, a broken down, sub .500, expensive jalopy of a MLB club.. are going anywhere... I know it might be tough at first, but eventually you'll wean yourself of your delusion and then you'll thank me... It happens to all of us from time to time.. coming down can be tough, but I'm here for you.

voodoochile
06-17-2011, 03:00 AM
Step away from the computer for awhile...take a walk, take up a hobby..anything to take your mind off of this delusion that the 11' Sox, a broken down, sub .500, expensive jalopy of a MLB club.. are going anywhere... I know it might be tough at first, but eventually you'll wean yourself of your delusion and then you'll thank me... It happens to all of us from time to time.. coming down can be tough, but I'm here for you.

I wouldn't thank you if you possibly could break that obsession for me. I have NO desire to feel or act that way. I'll keep watching and hoping until all hope is lost or they prove you dead wrong. It won't cost me a thing but trying to look at the team your way would cost me a good chunk of who I am, so I'll pass. But, good luck with your outlook, because from my perspective you need lots of it...

kufram
06-17-2011, 03:40 AM
I see the sky is falling again. We lost two games in Minny. I'd have rather won them and there is no guarantee that we won't lose two more games in Minny this year. But we lost a 1-0 game that other team didn't play any better than us, just had one go out of the park. It is frustrating.

But I don't understand why some people watch. They don't like the team, they don't like the staff, they don't like the owner, don't like the division we play in, everybody's a bum and should be released.... If I felt like that I wouldn't waste my time watching.

Chez
06-17-2011, 08:41 AM
But I don't understand why some people watch. They don't like the team, they don't like the staff, they don't like the owner, don't like the division we play in, everybody's a bum and should be released.... If I felt like that I wouldn't waste my time watching.

Exactly. If watching the White Sox brings you not a shred of happiness or enjoyment, then why bother?

guillensdisciple
06-17-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh, and our biggest mistake was not trading Gordon.

What a bust that guy has become.

miker
06-17-2011, 09:26 AM
Exactly. If watching the White Sox brings you not a shred of happiness or enjoyment, then why bother?

Some of us still believe in commitment...

...the rest of us should just be committed.

SI1020
06-17-2011, 09:45 AM
Some of us still believe in commitment...

...the rest of us should just be committed. I may fall in both categories.

slavko
06-17-2011, 09:48 AM
Or Von Joshua ball...or Gary Wardball.
I believe the problem runs deeper.

Say, if changing the hitting coach doesn't affect the results, should we look at something else, like organizational philosophy, or minor league system, or god forbid, personnel the GM puts in place?

Big difference between a team feeling it needs some power hitters (every team does need some power hitters) and a team stubbornly believing it needs a "prototypical leadoff guy." This isn't just about the great Juan Pierre. It is an indictment of the Sox' organizational philosophy.

Prototypical leadoff guy makes a difference. Look at the fire Pods lit here when he returned in 2009. It flamed out in bad baserunning and fielding, so what. Pierre is only one of a small army of underachievers around here. But he is in the front line, stop denying it. Half the team's in the front line of that sad army.

I'm not sure I want to access this site tomorrow if Daniel Hudson outpitches Edwin Jackson tonight. And he's likely to do so.

captain54
06-18-2011, 01:00 AM
I'll keep watching and hoping until all hope is lost or they prove you dead wrong. ...

And I'll keep watching and hoping and wishing that someway, somehow this organization comes to their senses and realizes 2005 was 6 yrs ago.

SI1020
06-18-2011, 01:13 AM
And I'll keep watching and hoping and wishing that someway, somehow this organization comes to their senses and realizes 2005 was 6 yrs ago. Never to be repeated with the current cast of characters managing, coaching and in the front office.

TommyJohn
06-18-2011, 08:00 AM
And I'll keep watching and hoping and wishing that someway, somehow this organization comes to their senses and realizes 2005 was 6 yrs ago.
I thought you were watching the Cubs more often?

kufram
06-18-2011, 09:11 AM
Wow, 6 years since we won a World Series... and no ring since then? Disgraceful. Oh well, it's been 10 years since the Yankees won one, 7 since Boston won one, and oh yeah almost 20 since anybody else in the Central did. So our post season record looks a little different under that light. Ok, those teams get to the post season regularly and I would like that to happen to us also but that doesn't make me scream on a website as if that's going to create anything.

I waited over 40 years so it's pretty fresh in my mind and that doesn't mean I'm not as anxious as anyone else to win one again. If winning baseball games was a matter of simply buying the best talent and coaching the best performances then the Yankees would buy the best and win like they did in the late 90's and the 50's.

If winning baseball games was predictable and easy to manage then the best team in all of baseball wouldn't lose 60 games every year. People claim we're in a big market... I'm not so sure about that. We can only claim one side of Chicago as our market, really. How many White Sox fans would become Cubs fans if they became winners every year?

Perspective... you need to keep some. Doesn't mean I want Pierre to play every day, doesn't mean I don't want Viciedo up to see if he can make a difference. It does mean I have an appreciation for how difficult getting to the post season and then winning in the post season is and I don't give up and name call in June when we lose.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-18-2011, 09:17 AM
Wow, 6 years since we won a World Series... and no ring since then? Disgraceful. Oh well, it's been 10 years since the Yankees won one, 7 since Boston won one, and oh yeah almost 20 since anybody else in the Central did. So our post season record looks a little different under that light. Ok, those teams get to the post season regularly and I would like that to happen to us also but that doesn't make me scream on a website as if that's going to create anything.

I waited over 40 years so it's pretty fresh in my mind and that doesn't mean I'm not as anxious as anyone else to win one again. If winning baseball games was a matter of simply buying the best talent and coaching the best performances then the Yankees would buy the best and win like they did in the late 90's and the 50's.

If winning baseball games was predictable and easy to manage then the best team in all of baseball wouldn't lose 60 games every year. People claim we're in a big market... I'm not so sure about that. We can only claim one side of Chicago as our market, really. How many White Sox fans would become Cubs fans if they became winners every year?

Perspective... you need to keep some. Doesn't mean I want Pierre to play every day, doesn't mean I don't want Viciedo up to see if he can make a difference. It does mean I have an appreciation for how difficult getting to the post season and then winning in the post season is and I don't give up and name call in June when we lose.

Oh I see, because the entire pitching staff had career years in 2005 we should just be content to go back to the perennial piss ass wanna be also ran status the organization had been known for prior to that.

kufram
06-18-2011, 09:22 AM
Oh I see, because the entire pitching staff had career years in 2005 we should just be content to go back to the perennial piss ass wanna be also ran status the organization had been known for prior to that.

Yeah, like that is exactly what I said. You can do whatever you want. I can't help you. Just giving my point of view. Mock if you feel it helps you.

SI1020
06-18-2011, 10:47 AM
Wow, 6 years since we won a World Series... and no ring since then? Disgraceful. Oh well, it's been 10 years since the Yankees won one, 7 since Boston won one, and oh yeah almost 20 since anybody else in the Central did. So our post season record looks a little different under that light. Ok, those teams get to the post season regularly and I would like that to happen to us also but that doesn't make me scream on a website as if that's going to create anything.

I waited over 40 years so it's pretty fresh in my mind and that doesn't mean I'm not as anxious as anyone else to win one again. If winning baseball games was a matter of simply buying the best talent and coaching the best performances then the Yankees would buy the best and win like they did in the late 90's and the 50's.

If winning baseball games was predictable and easy to manage then the best team in all of baseball wouldn't lose 60 games every year. People claim we're in a big market... I'm not so sure about that. We can only claim one side of Chicago as our market, really. How many White Sox fans would become Cubs fans if they became winners every year?

Perspective... you need to keep some. Doesn't mean I want Pierre to play every day, doesn't mean I don't want Viciedo up to see if he can make a difference. It does mean I have an appreciation for how difficult getting to the post season and then winning in the post season is and I don't give up and name call in June when we lose. The Yankees won the WS in 2009, the Red Sox in 2007. One thing I always liked about White Sox fans is although they were loyal, few were pollyannas. Perhaps that has changed. Lots of things have.

captain54
06-18-2011, 11:13 AM
I thought you were watching the Cubs more often?

Let's put it this way..I'm watching the Sox less often.

captain54
06-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Perspective... you need to keep some. Doesn't mean I want Pierre to play every day, doesn't mean I don't want Viciedo up to see if he can make a difference. It does mean I have an appreciation for how difficult getting to the post season and then winning in the post season is and I don't give up and name call in June when we lose.

Every fan expresses their passion for their team in a different way. Some bitch and moan, some like you, assume the yogi-zen position and try to calm the masses and light some incense and candles and recite your mantra over and over that everything is going to be fine. Because a lot of us get pissed and cuss at the organization doesn't make us any less a fan

the Brooklyn Dodger fans called their team "Bums", but yet, wept when the Dodgers left for the West coast in the 50's.. its a love/hate..its being going on for as long as competitive sports has been around.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2011, 12:17 PM
Kufram:

I understand your position and also aren't mocking it but consider this, the White Sox have the biggest market in the division, have had at times the highest payroll in the division, have the biggest radio - TV deals in the division, had the best advertising opportunities in the division (due to market size).

Why aren't they dominating the division like Cleveland did in the 90's and Minnesota in the 00's?

Why can't they make the playoffs CONSISTENTLY because of the advantages they have over the other teams in the Central?

What's wrong with this picture?

Just my opinion and I've said this for years, part of the issues with the franchise has been that Sox fans have been conditioned to accept less, I'm as guilty of this as anybody, I'm satisfied if they can have a "winning" season...but that's also the result of decades of a lack of success at the highest level. I'm thrilled I was alive for 2005...why can't we have more though?

Kenny and Ozzie (and JR) do not get a lifetime pass in my book because of 2005. In this business, it's "what have you done for me lately?" fair or unfair.

Lip

kufram
06-18-2011, 01:05 PM
Kufram:

I understand your position and also aren't mocking it but consider this, the White Sox have the biggest market in the division, have had at times the highest payroll in the division, have the biggest radio - TV deals in the division, had the best advertising opportunities in the division (due to market size).

Why aren't they dominating the division like Cleveland did in the 90's and Minnesota in the 00's?

Why can't they make the playoffs CONSISTENTLY because of the advantages they have over the other teams in the Central?

What's wrong with this picture?

Just my opinion and I've said this for years, part of the issues with the franchise has been that Sox fans have been conditioned to accept less, I'm as guilty of this as anybody, I'm satisfied if they can have a "winning" season...but that's also the result of decades of a lack of success at the highest level. I'm thrilled I was alive for 2005...why can't we have more though?

Kenny and Ozzie (and JR) do not get a lifetime pass in my book because of 2005. In this business, it's "what have you done for me lately?" fair or unfair.

Lip

I take your point on the market position in the division. I'm not sure what our advantages are over other teams in the division. Money, of course, certainly of late but we all know that money isn't enough.

I am not sitting here enjoying this season so far. Although I haven't given up hope because I keep thinking that everything that can go wrong has and the team will click soon, I am also asking myself the same questions everyone else is asking regarding player commitment, organizational philosophy, skill levels, etc. But the post season is hardly out of reach at this point. I see no reason to give up yet. Maybe I'm just a little too polite and can't really see the point in ranting and raving on the internet every time we lose. I hasten to add that I don't mean to preach just perhaps bring an ounce of balance.

I live in a country that doesn't really have baseball. I came to WSI because during the 2005 miracle I was alone at 3:00a.m. screaming and shouting and jumping up and down, nervous, excited... all of the things that following a baseball team are all about to me and I was hoping to find like minded souls that I could at least share baseball with. Sometimes it feels like I just found a bunch of angry people. I shouldn't judge.

I had a couple of WS facts wrong in my post because, like a fool, I relied on memory but 2005 isn't ancient history was the point I was trying to make and it wasn't just the pitching that got us there. Ozzie also had a career year. I like Ozzie. I don't like everything about Ozzie. He can make me and people around him laugh, but if another manager can manage better I'll like Ozzie somewhere else. I'm no fool.

I played on on the British National Championship team when I was 36 and a couple of times on the division II champions later. I helped win many games because I knew how to bunt, how to get to a fly ball, how to swing only at strikes, go with the pitch, and how to take a walk when it was given. I am horrified at the inability of some mlb players to do these things.... and not just White Sox players. Ok, the ball wasn't traveling as fast at me, 70-75 mph, but I wasn't a professional either.

I just can't bring myself to get overheated because then I don't enjoy it. That is all.