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WhiteSox5187
06-13-2011, 05:02 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6654100

Ozzie thinks that Paulie is a Hall of Famer. I could certainly see Konerko getting 2,000 hits and 400 HRs by this year, but unless he gets 500 home runs I don't think he has a prayer of getting in. I DO think he could break Thomas' record for most home runs in a White Sox uniform and I also think Konerko's stature will rise in the future when the steroid scandal is better understood. But I just don't see him in the Hall of Fame. What do you guys think?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-13-2011, 05:07 PM
As much as I hate to say it....I don't think he does. He might hang on the ballot for a good number of years though.

I think his number gets retired by the Sox, though.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 05:07 PM
Needs 500 HRs to get in.

delben91
06-13-2011, 05:19 PM
I'd be shocked if he made the HOF without 500 HRs.

That said, I'll be equally shocked if the Sox don't retire his number.

sox1970
06-13-2011, 05:22 PM
500 homers in a Sox uniform, and another top-5 MVP and/or playoff success would help his case. If that happens, he's in.

sox1970
06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
I'd be shocked if he made the HOF without 500 HRs.

That said, I'll be equally shocked if the Sox don't retire his number.

That's already a lock. When he handed Reinsdorf the ball, that was a done deal.

soltrain21
06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
White Sox HOF, sure.

JB98
06-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Right now, no. But his career isn't over yet.

chisoxfanatic
06-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Right now, no. But his career isn't over yet.
Yep. I think he needs at least another 5 or so years to make HOF-type numbers.

Tragg
06-13-2011, 06:03 PM
Get to 500, 2500 and we'll talk.

jdm2662
06-13-2011, 06:22 PM
Even if he keeps this pace up, it's still not likely. His number and picture will most certainly be on the LF wall, but no plaque in the HOF.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2011, 06:41 PM
I admire Paul for playing the game the right way and for his class and dignity but a Hall of Famer? No, not even close.

Lip

kevingrt
06-13-2011, 06:41 PM
Even if he keeps this pace up, it's still not likely. His number and picture will most certainly be on the LF wall, but no plaque in the HOF.

And really in the end isn't the ring, the statue and the pic on the LF wall all that matters?

Lamp81
06-13-2011, 07:22 PM
He could get closer, if the Sox had another magical post-season, and he played a big part in the success.

My favorite all-time player is Harold Baines. I don't think that Baines is a HOF player, and currently Konerko falls short. But if he finishes this contract at the pace of last year and the 1st part of this year, he may get in, as he is an example of playing the clean way (as far as we know).

russ99
06-13-2011, 07:33 PM
As much as I hate to say it....I don't think he does. He might hang on the ballot for a good number of years though.

I think his number gets retired by the Sox, though.

Paul needs 2500 hits, and a few more years with similar production.

Given that, with less power hitters league wide due to the juicing crackdown, Paul could get in especially if judged against his (cheater) peers. He'd be a Jim Rice candidate, with borderline numbers and getting after 5-10 years due to the era in which he played.

Daver
06-13-2011, 07:36 PM
Let's look at it the way a west coast reporter would look at it;

No. of MVP awards: 0

No. of batting titles: 0

No. of times leading the league in HR's: 0

No of times leading the league in RBI's: 0

3,000 hits? No

500 HR's? No

1500 RBI's? No

What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?

Brian26
06-13-2011, 07:43 PM
What do you guys think?

The day before a Twins series, I guess I prefer listening to Ozzie talk about how great our players are rather than the usual Minnesota praise.

That said, PK's on pace for a very, very good career, along the lines of Dale Murphy or Fred McGriff.

The homerun totals should be downplayed for this era as much as they should be for the 90s, though for different reasons. Baines played for years in Old Comiskey when it was 440-ft to centerfield, and there were parks like Tiger Stadium at 440-ft to CF and Yankee Stadium was 450-ft to LCF for awhile. Most of the new parks are bandboxes.

HOF? Ozzie's credibility continues to become non-existant.

Brian26
06-13-2011, 07:45 PM
What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?

FWIW, recently this debate came up on a baseball card site I read occassionally. The original poster got laughed off the board.

voodoochile
06-13-2011, 07:47 PM
He's borderline, IMO. If he has an amazing run the next few years and cracks 500 HR then yeah he could be there, but right now he's hall of very very good...

LITTLE NELL
06-13-2011, 07:47 PM
500 HRs gets him in but I think he will come up short.
Number retired and picture on the wall is a no-brainer.

balke
06-13-2011, 07:48 PM
If he has 5 more fantastic years for power and gets 500 hr I think maybe. This is one of the first times I've looked at him as the best hitter on the team. I've always liked his glove at first base but he has no gold gloves to go with it and doesn't have the range to get one.

Id say very unlikely but possible. If he retires in 3 years or less... no.

Brian26
06-13-2011, 07:51 PM
Is Todd Helton a HOFer?

Will never reach 500 HRs but has a BA almost 50 points higher than Konerko.

TDog
06-13-2011, 07:52 PM
You don't know at this point. Certainly, Konerko is performing this season and last like you would expect a Hall of Famer to perform. If he had performed at his current consistent level more consistently in earlier years, he would be in the company of Frank Thomas. Konerko has developed into an elite hitter. He has had some good years and some off years, but he is at the top of his game, both offensively and defensively. I don't know how long he will be at the top of his game.

Many didn't believe Konerko would be in baseball this long. Someone associated with the White Sox told me in 2002 that Konerko's hip problems would prevent him from playing beyond 2007 or so. It's not impossible that Konerko could have a shot for the Hall of Fame depending on how long he continues to play at his current level.

balke
06-13-2011, 07:55 PM
Is Todd Helton a HOFer?

Will never reach 500 HRs but has a BA almost 50 points higher than Konerko.

If he didn't have his bouts with injuries - Helton was a no doubter. He put up Thomas size numbers with a gold glove or more I believe. Yes the ballpark- but had he kept his pace it wouldn't have mattered.

Ron Karkovice
06-13-2011, 07:56 PM
Let's look at it the way a west coast reporter would look at it;

No. of MVP awards: 0
No. of batting titles: 0
No. of times leading the league in HR's: 0
No of times leading the league in RBI's: 0
3,000 hits? No
500 HR's? No
1500 RBI's? No
What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?

Not so fast. Let's not just say "No" point blank without looking at the STATS in detail.

Paul's current stats through today at the age of 35 (bday march 5, 1976)
1940 hits, 380 hrs, 1208 RBIs (He averages 164 hits, 32 HR per year, and 102 RBI per year)

If he continues PERFORMING AT CAREER AVERAGE:
-through this year (35 years old): 2130 hits 396 hrs 1258 RBI
-through 2012 (36 years old): 2300 hits, 430 hrs, 1358 RBI
-through 2013 (37 years old): 2460 hits, 462 hrs, 1458 RBI

Now starting the 2014 season, he will be 38 years old and the team will be unknown, I will go based on performing at HALF OF HIS CAREER AVERAGE hits and hrs (82 hits, 16 hrs) due to "old age" just to be conservative:
-through 2014 (38 years old, team?) 2540 hits, 478 hrs, 1508 RBI
-through 2015 (39 years old, team?) 2620 hits, 494 hrs, 1558 RBI
(some of this math is not perfect above due to me making this post quickly, but it is pretty close)

This shows what PK would have to do to get to around 2600 hits and 495 hrs through 2015 (if he performs at career average numbers the rest of this year and the next two years and performs at half career average for 2014 and 2015).

Noneck
06-13-2011, 07:57 PM
Let's look at it the way a west coast reporter would look at it;

No. of MVP awards: 0

No. of batting titles: 0

No. of times leading the league in HR's: 0

No of times leading the league in RBI's: 0

3,000 hits? No

500 HR's? No

1500 RBI's? No

What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?

500 HR's, 1500 RBI's, Are doable and not that ridiculous. I would think that this year should be his last shot at a MVP, HR crown or RBI crown (probably not MVP). Batting title and 3000 hits wont happen. By the end of his career, I wonder if he gets in with like 503 HR's and 1530 RBI's and nothing else. I really dont know.

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2011, 08:17 PM
He deserves induction if he reaches 500+ HR, 2500+ hits and 1500+ RBI.

Remaining healthy is crucial. The focus has shifted from his hips to his wrists. He also needs to avoid another season like 2003 or 2008.

He's definitely helping himself with his increased batting average since the start of the 2010 season.

Short of those magic numbers, he would need more postseason heroics, All Star appearances and/or individual awards (MVP, batting title, etc.).

I hope he does it. :bandance:

Ron Karkovice
06-13-2011, 08:20 PM
He deserves induction if he reaches 500+ HR, 2500+ hits and 1500+ RBI.

Remaining healthy is crucial. The focus has shifted from his hips to his wrists. He also needs to avoid another season like 2003 or 2008.

He's definitely helping himself with his increased batting average since the start of the 2010 season.

Short of those magic numbers, he would need more postseason heroics, All Star appearances and/or individual awards (MVP, batting title, etc.).

I hope he does it. :bandance:

If you see 2 posts above, he can reach those numbers by performing at career averages this year and the next 2 years, and HALF of his career averages the following 2 years.

Sunnydre
06-13-2011, 08:21 PM
forget this thread..

i want to know where are all the haters from last year that said he would not be able to duplicate it this year?


:cool:

Ron Karkovice
06-13-2011, 08:22 PM
forget this thread..

i want to know where are all the haters from last year that said he would not be able to duplicate it this year?


:cool:


who?

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2011, 08:26 PM
If you see 2 posts above, he can reach those numbers by performing at career averages this year and the next 2 years, and HALF of his career averages the following 2 years.

I read your post, and thought it was great.

Daver
06-13-2011, 08:27 PM
500 HR's, 1500 RBI's, Are doable and not that ridiculous. I would think that this year should be his last shot at a MVP, HR crown or RBI crown (probably not MVP). Batting title and 3000 hits wont happen. By the end of his career, I wonder if he gets in with like 503 HR's and 1530 RBI's and nothing else. I really dont know.

Harold Baines has over 1500 RBI's, and the only way he will see Cooperstown is if he buys a ticket.

Sunnydre
06-13-2011, 08:32 PM
who?

granted i'm more of a reader/lurker so I know that hurts my opinion to some on here, but I clearly remember last year, many saying there was no way Paulie was going to be able to repeat last year's performance in future campaigns...especially in threads that dealt with his contract.

where are those people now?

Zakath
06-13-2011, 10:01 PM
Gotta get Frank in first, then we'll talk.

If PK ends up with numbers similar to Frank when he's done (he needs 140 more HR's, 500 more RBI, and 500 more hits), he's got a good shot.

That being said, no one else should ever wear #14 on the South Side (I can also see #56 up there, and would be delighted to see #12 out there as well).

soltrain21
06-13-2011, 10:32 PM
Gotta get Frank in first, then we'll talk.

If PK ends up with numbers similar to Frank when he's done (he needs 140 more HR's, 500 more RBI, and 500 more hits), he's got a good shot.

That being said, no one else should ever wear #14 on the South Side (I can also see #56 up there, and would be delighted to see #12 out there as well).

Retire AJ's number? Let's please back the truck up quite a bit.

Daver
06-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Gotta get Frank in first, then we'll talk.


Frank Thomas put up numbers in a six year span that can only be compared to Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, and is on top of a few of those stats. Frank was the rare hitter that pitchers were scared to pitch to under any circumstances, I like Paul, but he is not in the same ballpark as Frank Thomas.

konerko 14
06-13-2011, 11:19 PM
I think by the time he retires his numbers will be good enough, he'll have 400 home runs by the end of this year, and has at least 2 years after this one.

BainesHOF
06-13-2011, 11:24 PM
I don't see Konerko as a Hall of Famer. That could change if he reaches 500 home runs.

Tragg
06-14-2011, 12:45 AM
Let's look at it the way a west coast reporter would look at it;

No. of MVP awards: 0

No. of batting titles: 0

No. of times leading the league in HR's: 0

No of times leading the league in RBI's: 0

3,000 hits? No

500 HR's? No

1500 RBI's? No

What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?
Sounds like Billy Williams (although he had one batting title).

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-14-2011, 02:35 AM
Let's look at it the way a west coast reporter would look at it;

No. of MVP awards: 0

No. of batting titles: 0

No. of times leading the league in HR's: 0

No of times leading the league in RBI's: 0

3,000 hits? No

500 HR's? No

1500 RBI's? No

What about that would make anyone not a Sox fan vote for him?

This is why he won't get in, unless he gets those 500 HR's, which isn't out of the question. Even then, I don't know if that could be considered enough. No way is he first ballot material. Aside from the HOF, he definitely needs that number retired.

white sox bill
06-14-2011, 06:36 AM
The HOF no, the Hall of the Very Good? Yes

Domeshot17
06-14-2011, 08:30 AM
If he gets to 500 homers, yes. If not, he is in the Hall of Fred McGriff (aka the Hall of Very Good, not Hall of Fame).

Moses_Scurry
06-14-2011, 08:51 AM
He would be the least heralded member of the 500 club ever I would think. I bet that not many people outsided of Sox fans and a few of the more hardcore baseball analysts even realize that he has a chance at 500.

He probably needs 550-600 to get in unless he goes to the Yankees for a few seasons.

miker
06-14-2011, 09:25 AM
In my eyes as a Sox fan, he's great.

In the HOF's eyes, probably not great enough. :mad:

#14 should go up on the wall in left center.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-14-2011, 09:33 AM
Last year he had his highest finish in MVP voting - fifth. I think he will need 2-3 seasons finishing higher than that to be seriously considered. Voters love to ask whether a player was considered among the best in the league at any point during his career.

Soxfest
06-14-2011, 11:52 AM
If Baines is not a HOF, Konerko is not IMO.

Dan H
06-14-2011, 11:54 AM
He has a chance with a few more productive years. However, he will need the Sox to win one more World Series with Paul playing a big role. If that doesn't happen, he's a long shot.

voodoochile
06-14-2011, 12:25 PM
If Baines is not a HOF, Konerko is not IMO.\

Haaarold's main issue is the bias against the DH. I think that will change a bit when Frank goes in, but it will be too late Haaarold when that happens...:whiner:

aryzner
06-14-2011, 12:51 PM
I voted no.

PK will be (already is?) a White Sox legend, but won't be a Hall of Famer.

johnnyg83
06-14-2011, 01:05 PM
I admire Paul for playing the game the right way and for his class and dignity but a Hall of Famer? No, not even close.

Lip

Not even close, really?

Jim Rice's stats are a little better as of today and he's in. And he's already ahead of Gary Carter.

I don't think he'll get in but he's certainly close enough to make he ballot which to me would disqualify a "not even close" comment.

Ron Karkovice
06-14-2011, 01:16 PM
I voted no.

PK will be (already is?) a White Sox legend, but won't be a Hall of Famer.

I think its actually impossible to say because we have no idea what kind of numbers he'll put up for the rest of this year and the next 3 to 4.5 years.

So my answer is "I don't know"

Ron Karkovice
06-14-2011, 01:19 PM
Not even close, really?

Jim Rice's stats are a little better as of today and he's in. And he's already ahead of Gary Carter.

I don't think he'll get in but he's certainly close enough to make he ballot which to me would disqualify a "not even close" comment.

Agreed.

sunofgold
06-14-2011, 01:23 PM
The King will get in the HOF, have his number retired, get his own statue, have a concession stand named after him, etc. C'mon, he is the King.

voodoochile
06-14-2011, 02:18 PM
The King will get in the HOF, have his number retired, get his own statue, have a concession stand named after him, etc. C'mon, he is the King.

Welcome to WSI, Mrs. Konerko...:tongue:

miker
06-14-2011, 02:59 PM
So far this discussion has played out like I thought it would. We love Paulie, but realize he might not put up the numbers needed to get him into Cooperstown.

Now if he played for a certain East Coast team and put up similar numbers, why he'd be getting his speech ready now...

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2011, 02:59 PM
If Konerko were on the Yankees and had the exact same career to this point, he'd be a lock. ESPN would speak his name in hushed tones of reverence.

WhiteSox5187
06-14-2011, 03:04 PM
If Konerko were on the Yankees and had the exact same career to this point, he'd be a lock. ESPN would speak his name in hushed tones of reverence.

I agree and I think the same thing is true of guys like Billy Pierce and Harold Baines.

I said this earlier, but I will say it again, IF Konerko can get to 500 HRs, I think he gets in.

TDog
06-14-2011, 04:00 PM
Haaarold's main issue is the bias against the DH. I think that will change a bit when Frank goes in, but it will be too late Haaarold when that happens...:whiner:

But if the Veterans Committee, as currently constructed, ever elects another player, it would be a player like Baines.

gobears1987
06-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Konerko belongs in the Hall of Pretty Good, which is what Cooperstown became with Jim Rice's induction.

Truthfully, I think he needs 500 HRs if he wants in. I don't think 500 HRs is at all farfetched.

gobears1987
06-14-2011, 04:21 PM
forget this thread..

i want to know where are all the haters from last year that said he would not be able to duplicate it this year?


:cool:

Forget that, where are all the haters on this board who used to brand fans of PK "aPaulogists"?

thomas35forever
06-14-2011, 09:54 PM
As much as I love him as a player, I don't think he quite measures up to others who have gotten in the Hall. I vote no.

ChiSoxGirl
06-14-2011, 10:32 PM
If Konerko were on the Yankees and had the exact same career to this point, he'd be a lock. ESPN would speak his name in hushed tones of reverence.

:nod:

MrT27
06-14-2011, 11:23 PM
There are roughly 17,300 people who have ever played in a Major League game, 205 of them are in the Hall of Fame. This means about 1.2% of players who make the pros make the hall of fame. 1.2% of the guys in the majors right now is just 9 guys.

Whenever I think about if someone should make the Hall of Fame I ask myself "is this guy one of the 9 or 10 best players in his era". Very open ended question I know but with out thinking about the meaning in depth I can say with certainty that Pauly has not been one of the best 9-10 players in his era.

He will always be one of my favorite Sox players and no one will wear number 14 again. But even if he gets 500 HRs he is not a Hall of Famer in my book.

Nellie_Fox
06-15-2011, 12:03 AM
There are roughly 17,300 people who have ever played in a Major League game, 205 of them are in the Hall of Fame. This means about 1.2% of players who make the pros make the hall of fame. 1.2% of the guys in the majors right now is just 9 guys.

Whenever I think about if someone should make the Hall of Fame I ask myself "is this guy one of the 9 or 10 best players in his era". Very open ended question I know but with out thinking about the meaning in depth I can say with certainty that Pauly has not been one of the best 9-10 players in his era. Statistically, you need to control for some factors. One that jumps to mind is, what percentage of players who have careers of 15 years or more, not just of guys who make it to the majors at all, go on to the hall? I'd bet it's a much larger percentage you'd be looking at.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2011, 12:56 AM
Statistically, you need to control for some factors. One that jumps to mind is, what percentage of players who have careers of 15 years or more, not just of guys who make it to the majors at all, go on to the hall? I'd bet it's a much larger percentage you'd be looking at.

Another thing to factor in is "of the 9 or 10 guys who played this position, is this guy one of the best AND NEVER USED STEROIDS?" Konerko might fall in the former category but her certainly falls into the latter.

joshua1024
06-15-2011, 05:26 PM
He would be the least heralded member of the 500 club ever I would think. I bet that not many people outsided of Sox fans and a few of the more hardcore baseball analysts even realize that he has a chance at 500.

He probably needs 550-600 to get in unless he goes to the Yankees for a few seasons.

Paul Konerko probably won't make the Hall of Fame without 500. However, why isn't there a physical "White Sox Hall of Fame" we could visit in the vicinity of the field? I've been to the Reds Hall of Fame right outside the ball park in Cincinnati, and it is outstanding. The Sox surely deserve a comparable shrine for their own greats, and their very, very goods! :scratch:

chisoxfanatic
06-15-2011, 05:49 PM
Paul Konerko probably won't make the Hall of Fame without 500. However, why isn't there a physical "White Sox Hall of Fame" we could visit in the vicinity of the field? I've been to the Reds Hall of Fame right outside the ball park in Cincinnati, and it is outstanding. The Sox surely deserve a comparable shrine for their own greats, and their very, very goods! :scratch:
There is one, but it's off-limits to those who can't afford Scout Seats, which is utter bull****.*

*Grinder Bash non-withstanding.

korhead
06-16-2011, 10:12 AM
Barry Rozner did some number crunching/forecasting. While currently, Paulie's current numbers seem to put him in McGriff/Hrbeck land, Rozner's projections (fairly done, IMHO) put PK in some pretty elite company in a few years:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110611/sports/706119795/

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/konerpa01.shtml

While it's difficult to predict future production in an older player, Paulie does seem to have cut down on the extended slumps that plagued him early in his career. He has become much more steady and consistent.

MetroPD
06-17-2011, 06:31 PM
Frank Thomas put up numbers in a six year span that can only be compared to Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, and is on top of a few of those stats. Frank was the rare hitter that pitchers were scared to pitch to under any circumstances, I like Paul, but he is not in the same ballpark as Frank Thomas.
I have to agree with this. As much as Paul is my favorite Sox player for the last several years, he is no Frank Thomas. Big Frank was simply astounding in his prime. Paulie has been healthy and relatively consistent over the years racking up the numbers he has had. Thomas on the otherhand was absolutely incredible and if he had played longer and retained his health would've been an all time great.
If Konerko were on the Yankees and had the exact same career to this point, he'd be a lock. ESPN would speak his name in hushed tones of reverence.
This is very true. Unfortunately outside of Sox fans, Paulie isn't all that well known even with his numbers that he puts up. The casual baseball fan has absolutely no idea who he even is.

jshanahanjr
06-18-2011, 11:13 PM
Will the Sox have a Grinder Bus to Cooperstown when Paulie gets the call in 15 years?

ShooterMcGavin
06-18-2011, 11:42 PM
I have to agree with this. As much as Paul is my favorite Sox player for the last several years, he is no Frank Thomas. Big Frank was simply astounding in his prime. Paulie has been healthy and relatively consistent over the years racking up the numbers he has had. Thomas on the otherhand was absolutely incredible and if he had played longer and retained his health would've been an all time great.

This is very true. Unfortunately outside of Sox fans, Paulie isn't all that well known even with his numbers that he puts up. The casual baseball fan has absolutely no idea who he even is.

In response to the bolded, I agree Paulie is no Frank Thomas, but since Frank Thomas is not the minimum-caliber hall-of-famer, Paul Konerko could still merit a HOF call if he obtains 500+ career HR. Is there any player with 500 career HR who is not a hall of famer?

jshanahanjr
06-18-2011, 11:51 PM
Frank was a better hitter than Paul, but 14 is a way better defender and probably teammate. Does that matter to HOF voters?

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2011, 11:56 PM
In response to the bolded, I agree Paulie is no Frank Thomas, but since Frank Thomas is not the minimum-caliber hall-of-famer, Paul Konerko could still merit a HOF call if he obtains 500+ career HR. Is there any player with 500 career HR who is not a hall of famer?

Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro have 500 HRs and probably aren't going to get into the HOF any time soon.

TDog
06-19-2011, 12:41 AM
Frank was a better hitter than Paul, but 14 is a way better defender and probably teammate. Does that matter to HOF voters?

Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith are in the Hall of Fame, although some people would have you believe it's about the stats. Omar Vizquel will be in the Hall of Fame. Still, first base is not a position where defensive greatness will get you into the Hall of Fame. Chances are, if you're not hitting, it won't even keep you in the lineup.

bridgeportcopper
06-19-2011, 09:04 AM
In response to the bolded, I agree Paulie is no Frank Thomas, but since Frank Thomas is not the minimum-caliber hall-of-famer, Paul Konerko could still merit a HOF call if he obtains 500+ career HR. Is there any player with 500 career HR who is not a hall of famer?

I think Dave Kingman was the only one for awhile....now with the steroids I don't think McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Bonds ever get in either.

Correction - just checked Kingman has 442 AND add Sheffield, ARod and Manny to that crew I noted above, although I don't remember if Sheffield was ever implicated. On 2nd thought, if Paulie gets 500, pencil him in, he'd be top 25 all-time HR leaders (and that is including the above noted cheaters.)

gobears1987
06-19-2011, 09:10 AM
The bigger problem is that the Hall of Fame is no longer the Hall of Fame.

The criteria for a Hall of Famer should be simple. If you have to debate if a player should be in, then the answer is clearly no. To be quite honest, many inducted over the last 10 years have no business being in. When you hear names like Thomas and Griffey, there is no debate. They are automatics and should be in.

bridgeportcopper
06-19-2011, 10:10 AM
I know many people think David Ortiz is a sure thing because of the East Coast thing......His stat line is very similar to Paulie's.



PLAYER YRS G (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/gamesPlayed) AB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/atBats) R (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/runs) H (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/hits) 2B (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/doubles) 3B (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/triples) HR RBI (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/RBIs) BB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/walks) SO (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/strikeouts) SB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/stolenBases) CS (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/caughtStealing) BA (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders)
Paul Konerko (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/3747/paul-konerko) 14 1918 6902 1006 1946 350 8 383 1211 762 1136 9 4 .282
David Ortiz (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/3748/david-ortiz) 14 1664 5943 1019 1679 435 16 366 1215 908 1283 10 6 .283

EMachine10
06-19-2011, 10:12 AM
I know many people think David Ortiz is a sure thing because of the East Coast thing......His stat line is very similar to Paulie's.
PLAYER

YRSG (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/gamesPlayed)AB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/atBats)R (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/runs)H (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/hits)2B (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/doubles)3B (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/triples)HRRBI (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/RBIs)BB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/walks)SO (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/strikeouts)SB (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/stolenBases)CS (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/caughtStealing) BA (http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders)Paul Konerko (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/3747/paul-konerko)14191869021006194635083831211762113694.282 David Ortiz (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/3748/david-ortiz)1416645943101916794351636612159081283106.283
I see it now...:tongue:

bridgeportcopper
06-19-2011, 10:21 AM
I see it now...:tongue:
i corrected it! :D:

TomBradley72
06-19-2011, 10:35 AM
The bigger problem is that the Hall of Fame is no longer the Hall of Fame.

The criteria for a Hall of Famer should be simple. If you have to debate if a player should be in, then the answer is clearly no. To be quite honest, many inducted over the last 10 years have no business being in. When you hear names like Thomas and Griffey, there is no debate. They are automatics and should be in.

Maybe- but every era has it's questionable selections- going all the way back to Rabbit Marranville and as recently as Bill Mazeroski.

There is no "simple" criteria- it's subjective- so there will always be debate.

voodoochile
06-19-2011, 11:51 AM
I think Dave Kingman was the only one for awhile....now with the steroids I don't think McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Bonds ever get in either.

Correction - just checked Kingman has 442 AND add Sheffield, ARod and Manny to that crew I noted above, although I don't remember if Sheffield was ever implicated. On 2nd thought, if Paulie gets 500, pencil him in, he'd be top 25 all-time HR leaders (and that is including the above noted cheaters.)

For several years Kingman was the only guy with 400 HR not in the hall. Obviously the standard has changed with the steroid issues of the last decade. I believe Sheffield is widely rumored to be a user but I don't recall if he's ever been caught.

Soxman219
06-19-2011, 11:53 AM
If the Sox can get hot and PK keeps doing what he's doing, there's a good chance he can be MVP. Right now it's probably A-Gon.

SephClone89
06-19-2011, 07:24 PM
If you have to debate if a player should be in, then the answer is clearly no.

...Really?

TDog
06-19-2011, 07:51 PM
The bigger problem is that the Hall of Fame is no longer the Hall of Fame.

The criteria for a Hall of Famer should be simple. If you have to debate if a player should be in, then the answer is clearly no. To be quite honest, many inducted over the last 10 years have no business being in. When you hear names like Thomas and Griffey, there is no debate. They are automatics and should be in.

There will be a debate over whether Frank Thomas belongs, and I don't expect he will get in on the first ballot. I would certainly vote for him, but I expect many people with ballots won't, at least not at first.

For many years, many were adamant that Bert Blyleven did not belong in the Hall of Fame. There was considerable debate over Early Wynn and Luke Appling, not to mention Nellie Fox.

Hendu
06-19-2011, 09:00 PM
There will be a debate over whether Frank Thomas belongs, and I don't expect he will get in on the first ballot. I would certainly vote for him, but I expect many people with ballots won't, at least not at first.

For many years, many were adamant that Bert Blyleven did not belong in the Hall of Fame. There was considerable debate over Early Wynn and Luke Appling, not to mention Nellie Fox.

I think Frank will get in first ballot, and I don't put Frank into a borderline category like Blyleven, et al. Paulie on the other hand...hall of very good, but not quite. We'll see what happens.

IMO, Frank is a no-doubter. He revolutionized the idea of a slugger in the 90s as a guy who could get on base, slug and hit for average. As long as he continues to be above suspicion with respect to performance enhancing drugs.