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View Full Version : *Official*Another Nail Biter Sox Win 5-4


guillensdisciple
06-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Whew, give him the closing job.

He was safe.

The only way he'll pitch like he can is if you continue to have confidence in the guy.

Let him close.

dwitt76
06-12-2011, 04:03 PM
3.5 games :smile:

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:03 PM
Why didnt they show a replay?

gobears1987
06-12-2011, 04:04 PM
That's the first game I've had a chance to watch live in a while. Glad I did though.

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 04:04 PM
He was clearly safe. Lucky.

Sunnydre
06-12-2011, 04:05 PM
quietly creeping up the standings..:D:

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 04:05 PM
Why didnt they show a replay?

Because he was very very safe.

Quentin08
06-12-2011, 04:06 PM
I just rewinded it and played it in slow motion, and he was clearly safe. Huge break! :bandance:

guillensdisciple
06-12-2011, 04:06 PM
Ye this game was won because mr. umpire decided to finish it for us.

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:07 PM
Should've swept. I'll take 3 of 4 though.

Crisp was definitely safe, but **** happens. The Sox have had some bad calls go against them. It's time they were reciprocated.

JermaineDye05
06-12-2011, 04:08 PM
Jesus.

This team could have swept the series. They should have.

Took a lead in the 9th every game.

The team picked a bad time to have the offensive and bullpen issues start creeping back up.

On the positive note: We still won the 4 game series, and Rios and Dunn look to be coming back, though Rios did look bad today.

I'm hoping Ozzie will bench Pierre.

I don't see how you can't keep starting Lillibridge with the way he's been playing both defensively and offensively.

Zakath
06-12-2011, 04:09 PM
I just rewinded it and played it in slow motion, and he was clearly safe. Huge break! :bandance:

DVR is wonderful.

He wasn't very very safe, but he beat the throw.

voodoochile
06-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Well I got to see the Oakland broadcast and they showed the replay several times. Due to the amount of dust kicked up as Crisp crosses the bag I still can't tell if his foot hit the bag before the ball hit the glove. As close to a tie as I've seen in a while, but the umps aren't allowed to call ties they have to make a decision and in this case they called it our way. We'll take it.

Welcome aboard, Mr. Donkey - go on and heat up a little more.

2 games under, 3.5 games back...

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

guillensdisciple
06-12-2011, 04:09 PM
I worry because these bullpen problems are resurfacing as we go into Minny- it might become a huge problem.

Foulke You
06-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Santos has lost the feel for that slider which is his wipe out pitch. Hopefully, he'll find it soon. Meanwhile, only 3.5 games back. I'll take it. Let's go Sox!!:bandance:

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Twins are hot and Mauer will be back Tuesday. Can't have a slip up in this next series.

JermaineDye05
06-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Looking at the replay, Crisp was safe by about two steps.

Thank you, Mr. first base umpire.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Because he was very very safe.

That's no reason. That is just ****ty coverage.

voodoochile
06-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Ye this game was won because mr. umpire decided to finish it for us.

Well that's a bit of an overstatement. The Sox would have still been leading if Crisp is called safe.

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 04:11 PM
That's no reason. That is just ****ty coverage.

Indeed.

JermaineDye05
06-12-2011, 04:11 PM
This team could benefit from Heath Bell.

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:12 PM
Looking at the replay, Crisp was safe by about two steps.

Thank you, Mr. first base umpire.
He wasn't safe by two steps. I rewound it and played it in slow motion. It was closer than that.

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 04:12 PM
This team could benefit from Heath Bell.

This team could benefit from a decent farm system so they would be able to acquire Heath Bell.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:14 PM
No Liriano in Minny. He almost tossed his second no-hitter today. I like the pitching match ups.

3.5 and tough opponents for the 1st place teams tomorrow.:bandance:

Patrick134
06-12-2011, 04:14 PM
Whew, give him the closing job.

He was safe.

The only way he'll pitch like he can is if you continue to have confidence in the guy.

Let him close.


He is closing. He didn't last night due to the high pitch count in Fridays debacle.

kittle42
06-12-2011, 04:14 PM
Hard to argue with 3 of 4 in a series and only being 3.5 games back right now. So as an initial thought, happy weekend!!!

BUT, two of those games were basically handed to us by the A's with fielding blunders, and the A's really suck. The Sox did a little bit of winning despite themselves in this series and the homestand, generally. Yes, wins and losses are the only things that ultimately count, but I still haven't seen anything from this team that gives me hope they can play baseball well enough to consistently win. The bullpen is suddenly an issue again, bunting is still being called for even though it consistently fails, double plays and caught stealings abound.

ChiSoxGal85
06-12-2011, 04:15 PM
DVR is wonderful.

He wasn't very very safe, but he beat the throw.

Yep. We got a break. That's ok. The times they go your way make up for the other times that they don't.

Nice bomb by Adam Dunn; solid job by Humber (except maybe the first inning? I missed the beginning of the game). Paulie is Mr. Clutch again.

A satisfying end to this home stand, Indians and Tigers both lose so Sox are 3.5 back. One game at a time.

Sox
06-12-2011, 04:16 PM
Glad to hear that the Sox won today. Too bad I don't get CSN but a wins a win however pretty or ugly. 3.5 games back and still climbing. :gosox:

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:17 PM
Hard to argue with 3 of 4 in a series and only being 3.5 games back right now. So as an initial thought, happy weekend!!!

BUT, two of those games were basically handed to us by the A's with fielding blunders, and the A's really suck. The Sox did a little bit of winning despite themselves in this series and the homestand, generally. Yes, wins and losses are the only things that ultimately count, but I still haven't seen anything from this team that gives me hope they can play baseball well enough to consistently win. The bullpen is suddenly an issue again, bunting is still being called for even though it consistently fails, double plays and caught stealings abound.
Well, the A's are the second worst team in the AL defensively. Also, how many games have the Sox lost due to ****ty defense? It's about time they were on the receiving end.

JermaineDye05
06-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Well, the A's are the second worst team in the AL defensively. Also, how many games have the Sox lost due to ****ty defense?

I don't know.

Ask Juan Pierre. I'm sure he knows.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:18 PM
He wasn't safe by two steps. I rewound it and played it in slow motion. It was closer than that.

Just saw it again. It was very close, but I think he was safe.

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:20 PM
Well I got to see the Oakland broadcast and they showed the replay several times. Due to the amount of dust kicked up as Crisp crosses the bag I still can't tell if his foot hit the bag before the ball hit the glove. As close to a tie as I've seen in a while, but the umps aren't allowed to call ties they have to make a decision and in this case they called it our way. We'll take it.

Welcome aboard, Mr. Donkey - go on and heat up a little more.

2 games under, 3.5 games back...

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

That's how I saw it as well. I've rewound it a few times, and it wasn't nearly as obvious as people here seem to think it was. It was a bang bang play. Could've gone either way.

chisoxfanatic
06-12-2011, 04:20 PM
I never thought we'd see 3.5 GB after that horrible start...I'll take it.

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:21 PM
I don't know.

Ask Juan Pierre. I'm sure he knows.
Another slam of Pierre. I'm shocked it took someone this long to do it. :rolleyes:

cws05champ
06-12-2011, 04:21 PM
DVR is wonderful.

He wasn't very very safe, but he beat the throw.

I think the save should go to the 1B ump...

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:24 PM
Why am I so happy that we are finished up this year with a last place team? :scratch: Glad to see them go. I hope they give some grief to the rest of the Central now.

voodoochile
06-12-2011, 04:24 PM
Another slam of Pierre. I'm shocked it took someone this long to do it. :rolleyes:

Well the Sox only got lucky to win these past few games donchaknow, so the shootas... er... dark... er... folks who tend to think this team isn't that good are going to continue to rage.

Meanwhile Pierre reached base at a .500 OBP again.

tstrike2000
06-12-2011, 04:26 PM
C'mon Serg, regain that form buddy.

spawn
06-12-2011, 04:27 PM
I never thought we'd see 3.5 GB after that horrible start...I'll take it.
Thankfully the Sox are in the AL Central, where no team is truly out of it. That said, I'll take it as well. This team was dead a few weeks ago. 3.5 out and they really haven't gone on a consistent winning streak.

JermaineDye05
06-12-2011, 04:28 PM
Well the Sox only got lucky to win these past few games donchaknow, so the shootas... er... dark... er... folks who tend to think this team isn't that good are going to continue to rage.

Meanwhile Pierre reached base at a .500 OBP again.

I just think you have to play Lillibridge with how hot he's been and how cold Pierre has been.

Pierre is supposed to be a good bunter, but he couldn't get a simple sacrifice down. Though I'm not sure why Ozzie was having him put a sac bunt down after Moscoso had walked the lead-off hitter.

LITTLE NELL
06-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Another nail biter, they are never easy.
We are inching closer to .500 and I mean inching. Friday night is still giving me heartburn.
Can't have a letdown on this road trip, 4-2 would be nice but I'll settle for 3-3 and make some hay on the next home stand.
These guys have still not clicked on all 8 cylinders, we are really due for some thunder from other guys besides PK and TCQ.

mzh
06-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Pierre is supposed to be a good bunter, but he couldn't get a simple sacrifice down. Though I'm not sure why Ozzie was having him put a sac bunt down after Moscoso had walked the lead-off hitter.
As inconsistent as he's been at that, Pierre leads the majors with 10 sac bunts. It's not just the Sox, everyone's bad at it. Bunting ain't easy.

Chez
06-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Thornton looking better! His velocity was up today. We will need major contributions from both Thornton and Sale (and maybe even Ohman) up in Minnesota. Will Mauer and Morneau both be back? Kubel? Thome? We need to throw some cold water on the Twinkies.

kittle42
06-12-2011, 04:34 PM
Well the Sox only got lucky to win these past few games donchaknow, so the shootas... er... dark... er... folks who tend to think this team isn't that good are going to continue to rage.

I'm not raging at all. I wasn't even really raging after Friday's debacle. I just want to see consistent good play before I start printing playoff tickets. There is reason for optimism (the May/June record, generally) but a lot of the lack of fundamentals and maddening situational hitting/pitching issues are still there. I don't want to rain on the parade - I'm just not holding the parade yet. :D:

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:34 PM
As inconsistent as he's been at that, Pierre leads the majors with 10 sac bunts. It's not just the Sox, everyone's bad at it. Bunting ain't easy.

No but it sure seems to me that major leaguers used to get bunts down better in previous decades. I could be wrong.

sox1970
06-12-2011, 04:36 PM
6-4 vs the A's this season. I would have taken that before the season started.

17-8 to the break and the Sox are in 1st, or real close.

Foulke You
06-12-2011, 04:37 PM
Thornton looking better! His velocity was up today. We will need major contributions from both Thornton and Sale (and maybe even Ohman) up in Minnesota. Will Mauer and Morneau both be back? Kubel? Thome? We need to throw some cold water on the Twinkies.
I'm hoping Dunn has a big series in Minny. Target is a great left handed hitters park. The Twins are hot and it will be a tough series but at least we miss Liriano who we never hit. After the tough Twins series, the schedule really lightens up. 3 vs. D'backs, 3 vs. Cubs, 3 vs. Nationals = NL sisters of the poor. We need to fatten up on that part of the schedule like we usually do.

tstrike2000
06-12-2011, 04:37 PM
As inconsistent as he's been at that, Pierre leads the majors with 10 sac bunts. It's not just the Sox, everyone's bad at it. Bunting ain't easy.

Pierre just gets talked about at length because he does nothing well. Like you said, the Sox don't bunt well as a team and haven't bunted well in recent years. This year, we need our middle of the lineup guys to start clicking as it's really taking a long time to get Dunn and Rios going.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm hoping Dunn has a big series in Minny. Target is a great left handed hitters park. The Twins are hot and it will be a tough series but at least we miss Liriano who we never hit. After the tough Twins series, the schedule really lightens up. 3 vs. D'backs, 3 vs. Cubs, 3 vs. Nationals = NL sisters of the poor. We need to fatten up on that part of the schedule like we usually do.

Agreed except for the Arizona part. They play well at home.

chisoxfanatic
06-12-2011, 04:41 PM
Thankfully the Sox are in the AL Central, where no team is truly out of it. That said, I'll take it as well. This team was dead a few weeks ago. 3.5 out and they really haven't gone on a consistent winning streak.
I didn't think Cleveland would drop this much as well. That has helped big time.

kufram
06-12-2011, 04:41 PM
No but it sure seems to me that major leaguers used to get bunts down better in previous decades. I could be wrong.

You are not wrong. Everyone but the power hitters were expected to be able to put a sac down. But then outfielders could catch routine fly balls back then too. And when Hank Aaron hit a home run he didn't hold a pose for 10 seconds.


mind you, we also didn't have the internet so I couldn't watch baseball... I had to listen on a transistor. Swings and roundabouts.

soxinem1
06-12-2011, 04:41 PM
Bang-bang plays are part of the game. If it was the 1985 World Series-type of blown call, okay, but the play in today's game was thisclose. It happens.

The bigger question should be why Morel even threw the ball? He had plenty of time to run to the bag versus quickly throwing the ball to first with a speedy runner, one play he has had difficulty with so far this year.

The futility of Dunn and Rios still concerns me. $30 million in two players that are a combined .200 with little run production and useless defensively.

A couple HR's from Dunn was nice this weekend, but he still has a ****ty approach and looks brutal against even the biggest of scrubs that throws the ball with their left hand.

Rios, OTOH, is hitting under .200 since last August.

What's more important is that this team has mis-fired most of the year and still found a way to shave 7.5 games off the deficit since June 1, and that a guy who was supposed to be nothing more than a long reliever/spot starter has been the most consistent starting pitcher of the group.

kufram
06-12-2011, 04:43 PM
Thankfully the Sox are in the AL Central, where no team is truly out of it. That said, I'll take it as well. This team was dead a few weeks ago. 3.5 out and they really haven't gone on a consistent winning streak.


They were never dead.... just no sign of life.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:44 PM
I didn't think Cleveland would drop this much as well. That has helped big time.

That is about the only thing I have predicted correctly all year. I took a look at their schedule about a month ago and figured they would be doing exactly what they are doing.

This little Twins revival caught me off guard though. Sox can help stop that pronto by getting at least two up there.

Lip Man 1
06-12-2011, 04:45 PM
They are back in the race, because well it's the A.L. Central. Be that as it may it's not often you get a second chance, they need to take advantage of it.

6-4 homestand, could have been better but because the teams ahead of the Sox are losing it's a successful one.

Now the Twins with Mauer, probably without Morneau...we'll see if mentally the Sox fold up again.

A club doesn't win 15 out of 20 against someone without help from the losing team themselves.

Lip

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:48 PM
Bang-bang plays are part of the game. If it was the 1985 World Series-type of blown call, okay, but the play in today's game was thisclose. It happens.

The bigger question should be why Morel even threw the ball? He had plenty of time to run to the bag versus quickly throwing the ball to first with a speedy runner, one play he has had difficulty with so far this year.


Morel had no chance for the guy at third. It may look that way as the ball goes toward him but once he got short-hopped the runner is able to scoot past him.

TDog
06-12-2011, 04:53 PM
He was clearly safe. Lucky.

The Sox have lost a couple of games this season on bad calls. I thought Santos had a third strike Friday night with two outs before Sizemore came up to put the A's ahead. It wasn't like Crisp hit the ball well enough to deserve a hit. I thought Morel should have run over to third for the force to end the game. Today's play wouldn't have tied the game, of course, unless the runner from second tried to steal a run. With the A's down by a run, I don't know if the A's and Sizemore would have risked it. As a rule of thumb, I consider any bad call against the A's to be a good call, unless it comes against a Sox rival.

The Sox deserved to win this game, though, and I'm happy that they won't see the A's again this season. I think they are going to play better baseball under Melvin. Weeks, against the Orioles and White Sox, looks like he will be disruptive. I am surprised the A's outrighted Kouzmanoff, but even from last place under a new manager, the A's will be playing hard.

In the pregame thread, there was consternation about the lineup, but offensively, this game worked out pretty much as you would have expected from the stats coming into the game. All the left-handed hitters reached base. He was much tougher on the right-handers. I thought Dunn had a homer in his first at bat. I expected he would get a homer in his second. I even chuckled inwardly when Ray Fosse pointed out that there was no speed on the bases because I didn't think there needed to be.

Good to see Humber get the win, although he gave up a two-out, two-strike home run to Sizemore to tie the game at three. I was surprised to see Moscoso come out for the seventh. Ultimately, I think that is why the Sox won the game. I thought he was done in the sixth, although he got away with a mistake to Dunn. Moscoso walked Teahen (although Ray Fosse whined about every pitch that wasn't called a strike). I couldn't complain that Pierre was bunting (and Pierre can bunt), but he failed to execute. Ramirez picked him up without taking the bat off his shoulder, which might have been a better strategy for Pierre.

As it turned out, the hero in the top of the inning was the goat in the bottom of the inning. Sizemore should have thrown Quentin out at first. The A's announcers were complaining that he didn't have a chance at a double play. Then Konerko calmly drove in what turned out to be the deciding run.

I like the fact that Guillen brought in Santos today. Coming back with a save in the same situation where he blew one Friday night should help his confidence. The fact that Crisp didn't get a cheap hit to extend the inning may be fortunate, but it should help Santos' confidence.

As I expected in April that they would, the Sox have climbed back in the race.

chisoxfanatic
06-12-2011, 04:55 PM
That is about the only thing I have predicted correctly all year. I took a look at their schedule about a month ago and figured they would be doing exactly what they are doing.

This little Twins revival caught me off guard though. Sox can help stop that pronto by getting at least two up there.
Fortunately this "revival" of the Twins hasn't allowed them to gain much ground on us!

KMcMahon817
06-12-2011, 04:59 PM
95% of posters on here would have told me to lay off the crack if I said that the SOX would be within 3.5 games of first just a mere two weeks ago.

Baseball is a funny game....never quit on your squad.

Go SOX! Keep winning!

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Fortunately this "revival" of the Twins hasn't allowed them to gain much ground on us!

Two games in the last ten. Sox can get them back this week but it is never easy for the Sox up there.

Brian26
06-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Bang-bang plays are part of the game. If it was the 1985 World Series-type of blown call, okay, but the play in today's game was thisclose. It happens.

The bigger question should be why Morel even threw the ball? He had plenty of time to run to the bag versus quickly throwing the ball to first with a speedy runner, one play he has had difficulty with so far this year.

The futility of Dunn and Rios still concerns me. $30 million in two players that are a combined .200 with little run production and useless defensively.

A couple HR's from Dunn was nice this weekend, but he still has a ****ty approach and looks brutal against even the biggest of scrubs that throws the ball with their left hand.

Rios, OTOH, is hitting under .200 since last August.

What's more important is that this team has mis-fired most of the year and still found a way to shave 7.5 games off the deficit since June 1, and that a guy who was supposed to be nothing more than a long reliever/spot starter has been the most consistent starting pitcher of the group.

I was sitting in line with 3rd above the sox dugout. I don't think morel would have beat sizemore to third.

hawkjt
06-12-2011, 05:00 PM
I just think you have to play Lillibridge with how hot he's been and how cold Pierre has been.

This homestand, Lilly was 4 of 23,and Pierre was 9 of 35,so neither of them is burning it up...but Lilly was hot on the road trip,not so much this week at home. The lefties lit up Mosoco today including Juan(2 hits) as the stats indicated they would. I think Ozzie has to pick his spots for Lilly and Juan, doing the matchup thing.

As for the A's...glad we are done with them. They always play better in the second half anyway,and they play the Sox so tough...5 of the 6 wins have been by one run. They seem to have a crappy offense,but like the Royals and Tigers,they have good at bats vs the Sox. I think there is so much parity in baseball this year(outside of the Red Sox,maybe) that every game is going to be a titanic struggle for the Sox.

The Tigers face the Rays tomorrow in a makeup game,and the Tribe play the Yanks,while the Sox rest...and gird their loins for the Twins. Then the Tigers and Tribe face off for three in Detroit...the Tribe could be in 3rd place by the end of next week.

PeteWard
06-12-2011, 05:01 PM
I was sitting in line with 3rd above the sox dugout. I don't think morel would have beat sizemore to third.

Not a chance. He made the right decision.

TDog
06-12-2011, 05:03 PM
They are back in the race, because well it's the A.L. Central. Be that as it may it's not often you fet a second chance, they need to take advantage of it.

6-4 homestand, could have been better but because the teams ahead of the Sox are losing it's a successful one.

Now the Twins with Mauer, probably without Morneau...we'll see if mentally the Sox fold up again.

A club doesn't win 15 out of 20 against someone without help from the losing team themselves.

Lip

If the Sox were in the AL West, their record would put them in third place 3.5 games out.

FielderJones
06-12-2011, 05:18 PM
I was sitting in line with 3rd above the sox dugout. I don't think morel would have beat sizemore to third.

You moved the game thread while sitting at the game? Nicely done, sir!

spawn
06-12-2011, 05:23 PM
They were never dead.... just no sign of life.
They were sure playing like they were dead.

spawn
06-12-2011, 05:24 PM
I thought Morel should have run over to third for the force to end the game.
Re-watch that play. No way he beats Sizemore to 3rd.

TDog
06-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Re-watch that play. No way he beats Sizemore to 3rd.

You might be right. But it's not a big deal. As I was watching he game on television, I thought Morel had a play at third. I did not say he should have tried to get the out at third. I wasn't second-guessing or suggesting he made the wrong play.

To Morel's credit, he made up his mind to throw to first and he threw out Crisp. Sox win. End of story.

kevingrt
06-12-2011, 05:34 PM
Serg is scaring the poop out of me. He really needs to figure out his slider because the fastball and change-up are only getting him so far. He also needs to utilize the two-seamer more often. Its a good pitch but he throws his four seamer all the time.

TDog
06-12-2011, 05:53 PM
Well I got to see the Oakland broadcast and they showed the replay several times. Due to the amount of dust kicked up as Crisp crosses the bag I still can't tell if his foot hit the bag before the ball hit the glove. As close to a tie as I've seen in a while, but the umps aren't allowed to call ties they have to make a decision and in this case they called it our way. We'll take it. ...

I don't know if "finders keepers ..." acutally comes from a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, but the baseball rule book does not address ties, in spite of what what you heard on the playground while growing up.

The A's announcers acted as if Crisp beat the play by a step. If it was a bad call, it wasn't the worst call of the weekend.

voodoochile
06-12-2011, 06:00 PM
I just think you have to play Lillibridge with how hot he's been and how cold Pierre has been.

Pierre is supposed to be a good bunter, but he couldn't get a simple sacrifice down. Though I'm not sure why Ozzie was having him put a sac bunt down after Moscoso had walked the lead-off hitter.

And yet he still managed a .500 OBP today...

TomBradley72
06-12-2011, 06:09 PM
And yet he still managed a .500 OBP today...

With a .300 OBP for the season, leading the league in outfielder errors, and caught stealing-

hawkjt
06-12-2011, 06:19 PM
With a .300 OBP for the season, leading the league in outfielder errors, and caught stealing-

Juan had an OBA of .324 after today,and is tied with Brett Gardener in caught stealing,but does lead in errors. 1.5 out of 3...batting .500 on stats.

kittle42
06-12-2011, 06:22 PM
And yet he still managed a .500 OBP today...

One serviceable day does not excuse crappiness. Come on, voodoo.

voodoochile
06-12-2011, 06:29 PM
Juan had an OBA of .324 after today,and is tied with Brett Gardener in caught stealing,but does lead in errors. 1.5 out of 3...batting .500 on stats.

In addition, much of the problems mentioned occurred in April when he was 5/12 in SB. He's 5/7 since. Showing that not only is he realizing it's a problem and attempting less steals but is doing so at a better rate when he does try.

In addition he posted a .365 OBP in May and while again off to a slightly slow start in June it's isn't horrific and has only seen his OBP for the season drop by 3 points in that stretch.

In addition I think his defensive flaws are magnified by the fact he's cost the Sox a couple of games with his muffs, but he also saved one just a week or so again and then paid tribute to Thornton in his post game statements acknowledging his gaffs earlier in the year.

The fact Lillibridge is playing so well doesn't help the fan's view of Juan either, but this place isn't known for patience either oddly enough because baseball is always a game of patience...

sunofgold
06-12-2011, 06:36 PM
and that could be good. Maybe KW is trying to work out a deal for a closer. Santos is doing fine 12 out of 14 is decent. However, he has been shaky the last few outings. Hope that he turns it around. Still wouldn't mind another righty in the bullpen.

Watch out for the Twins. They are only 9 games out and they have only played 25 games at home. They are crappy so far at home (9-16) but if they turn that around they have a lot of home games to get back in the race. I really hope that we can take 2 out of 3 in Minny, but it is never easy there.

spawn
06-12-2011, 06:42 PM
In addition, much of the problems mentioned occurred in April when he was 5/12 in SB. He's 5/7 since. Showing that not only is he realizing it's a problem and attempting less steals but is doing so at a better rate when he does try.

In addition he posted a .365 OBP in May and while again off to a slightly slow start in June it's isn't horrific and has only seen his OBP for the season drop by 3 points in that stretch.

In addition I think his defensive flaws are magnified by the fact he's cost the Sox a couple of games with his muffs, but he also saved one just a week or so again and then paid tribute to Thornton in his post game statements acknowledging his gaffs earlier in the year.

The fact Lillibridge is playing so well doesn't help the fan's view of Juan either, but this place isn't known for patience either oddly enough because baseball is always a game of patience...
Brent Lillibridge is the new Aaron Rowand.

spawn
06-12-2011, 06:44 PM
One serviceable day does not excuse crappiness. Come on, voodoo.
He's put together more than a few serviceable days during his short Sox career. Come on, kittle.

Sox
06-12-2011, 06:46 PM
No but it sure seems to me that major leaguers used to get bunts down better in previous decades. I could be wrong.

I don't think that you are wrong at all. I'm just not sure that one sees the bunt being used much as an offensive weapon anymore. It's used on occasion but overall very infrequently. And that's really too bad.

Sox
06-12-2011, 06:50 PM
Brent Lillibridge is the new Aaron Rowand.

I would say that's pretty good company using that comparison. I'm still amazed by the game saving catch that Lillibridge made last night. I'm hoping that the Sox use this kids talent effectively. Neither overplaying him or under playing him.

StillMissOzzie
06-12-2011, 07:04 PM
Well that's a bit of an overstatement. The Sox would have still been leading if Crisp is called safe.

EDIT: Never mind... I thought the A's had 1st and 3rd at the time.

I just got back from the game, and from the 3rd base club level (Thanks again, It's Dankerific!) it looked to me like the A's got screwed.

After a bumpy first inning, Humber looked pretty awesome in innings 2 through 5. I wasn't keeping score, but it seemed like a lot of K's, even in a row, in that stretch. A solo shot to the red-hot Babe Sizemore and one other run they scratched out, and I'll take 3 runs in 7 innings from any of the starters.

Nice to see the big lug park another long one, but Rios looked like he was back in his funk and might have fallen back below the Mendoza line.

It's never easy with Sergio lately, and an apparent break from the 1B man in blue, but they gained ground on both the Tribe and the Tiggers. I tried not looking at the standings until the Sox were .500 or better, but this division title is still winnable, dammit!

SMO
:gulp:

Brian26
06-12-2011, 07:06 PM
You moved the game thread while sitting at the game? Nicely done, sir!

That's why I get paid the big money.

Couldn't change the title of that thread for the life of me though.

sunofgold
06-12-2011, 07:09 PM
Is pretty damn good. I want to see him play more. I have to recalculate but we have a good winning record when Vizquel starts.

I have no problem giving Lillibridge more playing time. He has played great this season and is getting better. Nothing wrong with platooning a little bit.

But, I still believe that Pierre is a decent player. He has made some errors in the field but he also has made some nice plays. And Pierre has had some clutch hits. He is batting .379 with RISP and two outs this year.

Next year could be Lillibridge's chance to be a starter mainly at LF. Pierre is only signed through this year. Pierre is probably on the decline, thus the White Sox might be saying good bye to Pierre at just the right time.

soxinem1
06-12-2011, 07:53 PM
Serg is scaring the poop out of me. He really needs to figure out his slider because the fastball and change-up are only getting him so far. He also needs to utilize the two-seamer more often. Its a good pitch but he throws his four seamer all the time.

What's more scary is his continued wildness. Santos is averaging nearly 6 BB per 9 IP, and he wasn't exactly a strike-throwing machine last year.

I'm glad he is the closer over other options, but at the same time I sure hope he starts hitting the zone a little better than he has shown.

Warriorjan
06-12-2011, 07:54 PM
I was keeping score and I think he retired thirteen in a row.
I was sitting in the club level in line with the A's dugout. We all thought he was safe.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2011, 07:59 PM
He's put together more than a few serviceable days during his short Sox career. Come on, kittle.

I was excited when the Sox acquired Pierre, and thought he had a very good 2010. But he's regressed significantly this year, and speed doesn't slump - it goes away and never returns.

JB98
06-12-2011, 08:17 PM
I was excited when the Sox acquired Pierre, and thought he had a very good 2010. But he's regressed significantly this year, and speed doesn't slump - it goes away and never returns.

And Pierre had the single worst Sox at-bat of the day in the seventh after Teahen walked. He failed to get two bunts down and popped up weakly. He's not the same player he was last year. Plain and simple.

Fortunately, 2-3-4 got it done that seventh inning, with a little help from the Oakland defense. The A's are the worst defensive team the Sox have faced this season, and they were generous in handing us a couple ballgames the last two days.

It was nice to see Dunn park one. The guy Oakland threw today is the sort of pitcher Dunn should do well against. Good job by Konerko to get an RBI single off Balfour, who has given the Sox a lot of problems in the past. That proved to be the decisive run.

kittle42
06-12-2011, 08:20 PM
He's put together more than a few serviceable days during his short Sox career. Come on, kittle.

I'm talking about this season. Yeah, he's had a few serviceable days.

thomas35forever
06-12-2011, 08:52 PM
Haven't seen the replay of that last play. I thought he was safe, but was glad to take the gift. Amazing that this club is only 3.5 out right now. Who'd have thought it a month ago?

SI1020
06-12-2011, 09:06 PM
No but it sure seems to me that major leaguers used to get bunts down better in previous decades. I could be wrong. You're not.

asindc
06-12-2011, 09:09 PM
No but it sure seems to me that major leaguers used to get bunts down better in previous decades. I could be wrong.

You're not.

In fact, it would be comical to watch if it wasn't costing us games. It used to be considered amongst the easiest things to do in a baseball game.

russ99
06-12-2011, 10:07 PM
And Pierre had the single worst Sox at-bat of the day in the seventh after Teahen walked. He failed to get two bunts down and popped up weakly. He's not the same player he was last year. Plain

So tired of this. Does Pierre has to go 4-4, lay down perfect bunts, steal 3 bases and make jumping catches at the wall every game in order for some people to think that he's helping the team?

Some of you just love Juan as your whipping boy, and nothing he does can be good enough.

2-4 seemed pretty good to me, and plenty of other Sox hitters had poor at bats today. We won, quit whining.

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2011, 10:26 PM
So tired of this. Does Pierre has to go 4-4, lay down perfect bunts, steal 3 bases and make jumping catches at the wall every game in order for some people to think that he's helping the team?

Some of you just love Juan as your whipping boy, and nothing he does can be good enough.

2-4 seemed pretty good to me, and plenty of other Sox hitters had poor at bats today. We won, quit whining.

How about:

1. Play defense like he did in 2010;

2. Steal bases like he did in 2010;

3. Hit and get on base like he did in 2010.

Is that so unreasonable to expect?

Lip Man 1
06-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Russ asks: "Does Pierre has to go 4-4, lay down perfect bunts, steal 3 bases and make jumping catches at the wall every game in order for some people to think that he's helping the team?"

Yes.

Lip

kittle42
06-12-2011, 10:59 PM
How about:

1. Play defense like he did in 2010;

2. Steal bases like he did in 2010;

3. Hit and get on base like he did in 2010.

Is that so unreasonable to expect?

Exactly.

And lay down a bunt. But I'll lay that one at the feet of russ99's other fave, Ozzie.

slavko
06-12-2011, 11:28 PM
Exactly.

And lay down a bunt. But I'll lay that one at the feet of russ99's other fave, Ozzie.

He has a tendency to pick it up when the weather heats up. If this little Ice Age ever ends, I expect him to. But the speed that's so much a part of his game....not coming back. Pods when going good gave you so much more offensively for 1/3 the price. Defensively? Both frequently act confused and have noodle arms. At least we have him at half price.

Zisk77
06-13-2011, 12:01 AM
As inconsistent as he's been at that, Pierre leads the majors with 10 sac bunts. It's not just the Sox, everyone's bad at it. Bunting ain't easy.

What bugs me is where he was trying to bunt it...to 3b. Fundamentally you bunt towards 1st base to move a runner to 2b and bunt to 3b to move a runner to 3b. Now there is exceptions like a left handed throwing 1b with a great arm etc.

Nellie_Fox
06-13-2011, 12:42 AM
Will Mauer and Morneau both be back? Kubel? Thome?
Mauer is probable. Morneau has been day-to-day with a wrist injury. Thome is on the 15 day DL, won't be eligible to come back until the 17th. Span is on the 7 day (concussion) DL, also not eligible to come back until the 17th. Yet they've been winning.

I don't know if "finders keepers ..." acutally comes from a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, but the baseball rule book does not address ties, in spite of what what you heard on the playground while growing up.That's because there's no such thing as a "tie." You're either on the base when the ball hits his glove, or you're not. If you're one millimeter above, you're out. If one molecule of your spike is touching the base, you're safe.

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 01:07 AM
Glad i impulsively bought tickets this morning and got to enjoy a beautiful day at the park. Section 158, hadn't sat there in years. Forgot how much i love sitting close to the bullpen in left.

Santos had his third shaky outing in a row, I hope its just a little phase, because he has 12 saves now and he has still earned the role. Dunn's blast was a monster shot, it was so great to finally have the crowd cheer wildly for him. I loved how he just watched it as to say "man, i remember doing this alot, im going to admire this one" --now is a great time to get on a homer binge. He came very close to having 2 HR today, and he took another walk, which he has 35+. That is productive too.

The fans around me (me included) were dumbfounded at the call to end it. I'm sure its been discussed throughout the thread already, but man Morel played that ball terribly. He didn't charge it, and when he threw it i was already hanging my head wondering how the Sox were about to blow another one. Instead, we catch a huge break, and find ourselves 3.5 out going into Minn. Im expecting the Sox to take two out of three. I don't care how well they have been playing there is absolutely zero excuse to not take care of this team. So many injuries, pitching is awful....this is a must win series for the confidence of the ballclub. They swept that two game series at our place, time show the Central we are for real.

One more note...my dad had to go to guest services to find out about the split the pot. This is the second game now where they havent shown & announced the split the pot winning ticket on the jumbotron. They are supposed to show it at the top of the 8th. They didn't. Hmm. Also, i saw a guy wearing an authentic Loaiza jersey. Made me chuckle. Time to put that one away sir. :tongue:

DonnieDarko
06-13-2011, 04:07 AM
One more note...my dad had to go to guest services to find out about the split the pot. This is the second game now where they havent shown & announced the split the pot winning ticket on the jumbotron. They are supposed to show it at the top of the 8th. They didn't.

Uh, hate to tell you, but they did put it up on the jumbotron. I specifically remember turning to my fiancee and asking her to double-check our tickets when it came on the screen. Also probably helped that I was sitting right behind the plate on the 500 level, and thus had a much better view of it than you did. :wink:

In regards to the game, call me crazy, but I have this inkling that Santos is going to have a much better outing on his next save opportunity. What can I say, I'm just hooked on a feelin'~. But yes, that 9th inning was a real acid inducer. Whew.

On a completely different note, about an hour before the game, me and my fiancee were about to take the elevators in the front office up to the 500 level, when we saw Gene Honda taking a smoke break right outside the entrance. I told him that I remembered the night that he MCed the "Dear Friends" concert, and told him that I thought he did a wonderful job both there and in the park. Seemed like a pretty nice guy, even if only from a short meeting.

PeteWard
06-13-2011, 05:30 AM
Mauer is probable. Morneau has been day-to-day with a wrist injury. Thome is on the 15 day DL, won't be eligible to come back until the 17th. Span is on the 7 day (concussion) DL, also not eligible to come back until the 17th. Yet they've been winning.

That's because there's no such thing as a "tie." You're either on the base when the ball hits his glove, or you're not. If you're one millimeter above, you're out. If one molecule of your spike is touching the base, you're safe.


Thanks Nellie. I had a long argument about that a few years ago. An exact tie is a mathematical impossibility, even if the human eye cannot discern the difference.

Bad news about Mauer. Not for fear...I just want the games to finish in under 4 hours.:angry:. Hopefully he DHs.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 07:03 AM
I was very surprised to see Pierre instead of Lillibridge in LF for the 9th- between his arm, range, etc.- I sure would like to see Brent out there in the 9th in a close game. Just about conceding the run scoring from second on a single to left or from 3rd on a fly ball to left.

October26
06-13-2011, 08:11 AM
Missed the Sox game yesterday (hectic Sunday) but saw the replay On Demand last night.

Phew - another nervous 9th inning!

:bandance: Sox Win! I read in the newspaper this morning that on May 7th the Sox were in last place 11 games behind Cleveland (yuck!) and on June 12th, the Sox are in 3rd place, 3.5 games behind (oh yeah!)

Keep on winning, White Sox! :smile:

miker
06-13-2011, 09:29 AM
Anyone send Brian O'Nora a Thank You card yet...?

Chez
06-13-2011, 09:44 AM
How about a 4-2 road trip followed up by a 5-1 homestand? Do that and we'll be on our way.

PeteWard
06-13-2011, 09:46 AM
Anyone send Brian O'Nora a Thank You card yet...?

He missed the call but it wasn't THAT bad. Pretty close.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 09:46 AM
So tired of this. Does Pierre has to go 4-4, lay down perfect bunts, steal 3 bases and make jumping catches at the wall every game in order for some people to think that he's helping the team?

Some of you just love Juan as your whipping boy, and nothing he does can be good enough.

2-4 seemed pretty good to me, and plenty of other Sox hitters had poor at bats today. We won, quit whining.

Not necessarily- but a player like Pierre (in my opinion) needs to deliver on "the little" things to be of value to the team based on his complete lack of power and ability to throw a baseball. These include playing adequate defense (he hasn't), stealing bases (his percentage is better over the past month, but only 4/5- which would be a pace 24 for a season- not enough), and getting bunts down to move runners along or generate infield hits (extremely inconsistent).

I think he'll hit ok- but a .280 batting average without the other stuff he was able to do last year just isn't enough. For the upgrade on defense alone- I'd like to see Lillibridge in LF at least half the time depending on match ups, etc.- and ALWAYS in as a late inning defensive replacement in close games, etc.

hi im skot
06-13-2011, 09:53 AM
Not necessarily- but a player like Pierre (in my opinion) needs to deliver on "the little" things to be of value to the team based on his complete lack of power and ability to throw a baseball. These include playing adequate defense (he hasn't), stealing bases (his percentage is better over the past month, but only 4/5- which would be a pace 24 for a season- not enough), and getting bunts down to move runners along or generate infield hits (extremely inconsistent).

I think he'll hit ok- but a .280 batting average without the other stuff he was able to do last year just isn't enough. For the upgrade on defense alone- I'd like to see Lillibridge in LF at least half the time depending on match ups, etc.- and ALWAYS in as a late inning defensive replacement in close games, etc.

This post is spot on.

kjhanson
06-13-2011, 10:07 AM
So tired of this. Does Pierre has to go 4-4, lay down perfect bunts, steal 3 bases and make jumping catches at the wall every game in order for some people to think that he's helping the team?

Some of you just love Juan as your whipping boy, and nothing he does can be good enough.

2-4 seemed pretty good to me, and plenty of other Sox hitters had poor at bats today. We won, quit whining.

When there's someone on the bench who's 2-4s include extra base hits, who does make leaping catches and who can run the bases on par with him, then, yes, he does have to do a little bit more to help the team. His value to this team is only worth the incremental value he is added over Brent, which at this point is non-existent.

Somehow Brent Lillibridge has 19 runs in 106 PAs, while Juan has 31 runs in 300 PAs. Juan has been on base 94 times this year and has scored 33% of the time (pathetic). Brent has been on base 39 times and has scored 49% of the time. And this is with Alexei, Konerko and Quentin hitting behind Pierre, while Beckham, Morel and Pierre have often hit behind Lillibridge.

russ99
06-13-2011, 10:10 AM
complete lack of power.

Because that's totally essential in a leadoff hitter. Does any leadoff guy in the big leagues hit for power? :scratch:

Juan has been on base 94 times this year and has scored 33% of the time (pathetic).

Which is a reflection on a total lack of clutch hitting (especially with RISP) on the players batting behind him most of the season.

However, you're right on the rest of your posts. I'm not against Lillbridge playing regularly, and pushing Pierre for playing time if he continues to be inconsistent.

It's that there's two standards at work here, one for speedy slap hitters, and one for the rest of the roster. Rios can go 0-4 and leave tons of guys on base, and yet at the end of the day people whine about Pierre going 2-4 and missing a bunt.

doublem23
06-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Because that's totally essential in a leadoff hitter. Does any leadoff guy in the big leagues hit for power? :scratch:

Hitting for power doesn't just mean home runs, but yes, guys like Ian Kinsler, Michael Brantley, and Jacoby Ellsbury all have some pop in their bat. And hey, they all lead-off for 1st place teams.

doublem23
06-13-2011, 10:22 AM
It's that there's two standards at work here, one for speedy slap hitters, and one for the rest of the roster. Rios can go 0-4 and leave tons of guys on base, and yet at the end of the day people whine about Pierre going 2-4 and missing a bunt.

No there's not, people have been bitching about Rios and Dunn all season long, the only double standard at work is that our boy #13 has found ways to move Dunn and Rios around the lineup and even sit them for several games at time to try an address their ****tiness while he continues to shoehorn Juan Pierre into the most plate appearances on the team despite the fact he's one of the 2-3 worst offensive players we have. And that's before you factor in that he's also probably the worst defensive player out there.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 10:25 AM
Because that's totally essential in a leadoff hitter. Does any leadoff guy in the big leagues hit for power? :scratch:



Which is a reflection on a total lack of clutch hitting (especially with RISP) on the players batting behind him most of the season.

However, you're right on the rest of your posts. I'm not against Lillbridge playing regularly, and pushing Pierre for playing time if he continues to be inconsistent.

It's that there's two standards at work here, one for speedy slap hitters, and one for the rest of the roster. Rios can go 0-4 and leave tons of guys on base, and yet at the end of the day people whine about Pierre going 2-4 and missing a bunt.

I'm not being critical of Pierre for having a lack of power- but most slap hitters bring other value to the table (as I mentioned- defense, stealing bases and getting bunts down)- a slap hitter who can't do those things is of very little value.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 10:28 AM
Because that's totally essential in a leadoff hitter. Does any leadoff guy in the big leagues hit for power? :scratch:



Which is a reflection on a total lack of clutch hitting (especially with RISP) on the players batting behind him most of the season.

However, you're right on the rest of your posts. I'm not against Lillbridge playing regularly, and pushing Pierre for playing time if he continues to be inconsistent.

It's that there's two standards at work here, one for speedy slap hitters, and one for the rest of the roster. Rios can go 0-4 and leave tons of guys on base, and yet at the end of the day people whine about Pierre going 2-4 and missing a bunt.

No double standard- up until yesterday it looked like Rios was coming around since he made the adjustment with his hands- he was hitting .300 for June going into yesterday's game.

hawkjt
06-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I think at the very least,Juan might benefit from more days off,especially vs lefty starters,when Lilly could go for him. Yesterday,after having a day off on Saturday,Juan had a couple of hits,and looked better at the plate.
He is getting older,and I think those guys could use more days off.
Like with PK getting the DH a couple times a week...keeping him strong.

Hopefully,Alex is getting his swerve back(yesterday notwithstanding)so he will be in center,and Carlos is too productive to sit much...but that leaves a bit of a dilemma about where to play Lilly. He could spell Alexei at short,but that is Omar's job.

Vs the Twins,with Pavano,Blackburn and Duesing...I think Lilly probably sits on Tues and Wed,then plays Thursday afternoon vs Duesing...maybe for Juan? He could play for Gordo on Tues,I guess,but with the day off on Monday,I doubt it.

It is a good problem to have bench guys like Lilly and Omar who you want to get in there due to competence...Teahen? ...wait and see .

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 12:13 PM
Uh, hate to tell you, but they did put it up on the jumbotron. I specifically remember turning to my fiancee and asking her to double-check our tickets when it came on the screen. Also probably helped that I was sitting right behind the plate on the 500 level, and thus had a much better view of it than you did. :wink:

well, ****balls :redface: I retract my statement

JB98
06-13-2011, 12:29 PM
Not necessarily- but a player like Pierre (in my opinion) needs to deliver on "the little" things to be of value to the team based on his complete lack of power and ability to throw a baseball. These include playing adequate defense (he hasn't), stealing bases (his percentage is better over the past month, but only 4/5- which would be a pace 24 for a season- not enough), and getting bunts down to move runners along or generate infield hits (extremely inconsistent).

I think he'll hit ok- but a .280 batting average without the other stuff he was able to do last year just isn't enough. For the upgrade on defense alone- I'd like to see Lillibridge in LF at least half the time depending on match ups, etc.- and ALWAYS in as a late inning defensive replacement in close games, etc.

Thank you.

I'm not asking Pierre to go 4-for-4. To say that I demand that of him is just dumb hyperbole. I am asking him to make routine plays in the outfield, get bunts down and run the damn bases properly. Ya know, those are the things that have kept him in the big leagues for this long.

He has done none of those things this season, which is why I have called for a change in LF.

This notion of a "double standard" for speed guys and power guys among the fan base is ridiculous. Dunn has been booed mercilessly this season. I don't want to hear that Sox fans are forgiving of power hitters, but not other types of players. That's bull****.

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 12:48 PM
Thank you.

I'm not asking Pierre to go 4-for-4. To say that I demand that of him is just dumb hyperbole. I am asking him to make routine plays in the outfield, get bunts down and run the damn bases properly. Ya know, those are the things that have kept him in the big leagues for this long.

He has done none of those things this season, which is why I have called for a change in LF.

This notion of a "double standard" for speed guys and power guys among the fan base is ridiculous. Dunn has been booed mercilessly this season. I don't want to hear that Sox fans are forgiving of power hitters, but not other types of players. That's bull****.

At the game yesterday, and i saw the A's do the following. Leadoff double, sac bunt on the first pitch executed perfectly, sac fly to get him in. Seemed like it took 5 pitches. If a ****ty team like the A's can perform this, why can't a contending team like the Whitesox? I shook my head, and wondered, why is it so hard for our team. :scratch:

miker
06-13-2011, 12:50 PM
Because that's totally essential in a leadoff hitter. Does any leadoff guy in the big leagues hit for power? :scratch:

Brady Anderson. Oh, wait... :o:

kittle42
06-13-2011, 01:18 PM
Thank you.

I'm not asking Pierre to go 4-for-4. To say that I demand that of him is just dumb hyperbole. I am asking him to make routine plays in the outfield, get bunts down and run the damn bases properly. Ya know, those are the things that have kept him in the big leagues for this long.

He has done none of those things this season, which is why I have called for a change in LF.

This notion of a "double standard" for speed guys and power guys among the fan base is ridiculous. Dunn has been booed mercilessly this season. I don't want to hear that Sox fans are forgiving of power hitters, but not other types of players. That's bull****.

Double thank you. But neither you nor I explaining ourselves will keep others from tossing out misinformed hyperbole next time Pierre is criticized.

slavko
06-13-2011, 01:18 PM
Hate to get ancient on you with Rickey Henderson, but check his stats over a two decade career.

voodoochile
06-13-2011, 01:43 PM
Hate to get ancient on you with Rickey Henderson, but check his stats over a two decade career.

Well Ricky is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and in the discussion for starting LF on the ALL MLB starting 9. He certainly is no lower than 3rd string there on any reasonable team, so while if that's the standard there aren't going to be many who live up to it...

jdm2662
06-13-2011, 01:47 PM
At the game yesterday, and i saw the A's do the following. Leadoff double, sac bunt on the first pitch executed perfectly, sac fly to get him in. Seemed like it took 5 pitches. If a ****ty team like the A's can perform this, why can't a contending team like the Whitesox? I shook my head, and wondered, why is it so hard for our team. :scratch:

Not quite. I was in RF. It was a lead off double. Then, a fly out which advanced the runner to third. Then, it was a ground out that scored the run.

tstrike2000
06-13-2011, 02:08 PM
At the game yesterday, and i saw the A's do the following. Leadoff double, sac bunt on the first pitch executed perfectly, sac fly to get him in. Seemed like it took 5 pitches. If a ****ty team like the A's can perform this, why can't a contending team like the Whitesox? I shook my head, and wondered, why is it so hard for our team. :scratch:

Because Ozzie and Greg Walker are the greatest manager and hitting coach alive.

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 03:04 PM
Not quite. I was in RF. It was a lead off double. Then, a fly out which advanced the runner to third. Then, it was a ground out that scored the run.

I got it mixed up with another sequence where they executed a sac bunt on the first pitch. I don't recall which part of the game it was though. My mistake.

vinny
06-13-2011, 03:32 PM
I got it mixed up with another sequence where they executed a sac bunt on the first pitch. I don't recall which part of the game it was though. My mistake.
No sac bunts Sunday. There was one in the 6th on Saurday when Pennington bunted Crisp to third on the second pitch after Crisp doubled. Matsui hit a sac fly on the second pitch.

TDog
06-13-2011, 04:17 PM
At the game yesterday, and i saw the A's do the following. Leadoff double, sac bunt on the first pitch executed perfectly, sac fly to get him in. Seemed like it took 5 pitches. If a ****ty team like the A's can perform this, why can't a contending team like the Whitesox? I shook my head, and wondered, why is it so hard for our team. :scratch:

Against the Angels this season, with a closer throwing 100 mph,the A's were losing by one run with two outsi in the ninth and Crisp got a two-strike hit, stole second and came home to tie the game on a Barton single. The A's won in extra-innings, with the help of poor Angels defense. If you only watched that one game, you would have to rate the A's as the team to beat in the AL West.

The thing is, if you talk to A's fans, they never execute. They never score leadoff doubles. They never move the runner over. They never get the runner in from third with less than two outs. If you watch a lot of A's games, you see that moving the runner over, as Matsui did with his fly ball, and getting him in is the exception.

You think the White Sox are weak at hitting with runners in scoring position? The A's are hitting .242. The American League is hitting .254. And for that matter, the White Sox are hitting .254. The White Sox are only hitting .231 with two outs and runners in scoring position, but the league is only hitting .228.

Exeuction in the A's offense may improve under Melvin. Maybe not. But it would be wrong to look at the A's execution this weekend and conclude that they do the little things needed to win as often as the White Sox do.

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 04:23 PM
No sac bunts Sunday. There was one in the 6th on Saurday when Pennington bunted Crisp to third on the second pitch after Crisp doubled. Matsui hit a sac fly on the second pitch.

Good god. I am blaming this on the severe sunburn i got at the game yesterday. :redface:

Your honor, strike my post from the record...

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Against the Angels this season, with a closer throwing 100 mph,the A's were losing by one run with two outsi in the ninth and Crisp got a two-strike hit, stole second and came home to tie the game on a Barton single. The A's won in extra-innings, with the help of poor Angels defense. If you only watched that one game, you would have to rate the A's as the team to beat in the AL West.

The thing is, if you talk to A's fans, they never execute. They never score leadoff doubles. They never move the runner over. They never get the runner in from third with less than two outs. If you watch a lot of A's games, you see that moving the runner over, as Matsui did with his fly ball, and getting him in is the exception.

You think the White Sox are weak at hitting with runners in scoring position? The A's are hitting .242. The American League is hitting .254. And for that matter, the White Sox are hitting .254. The White Sox are only hitting .231 with two outs and runners in scoring position, but the league is only hitting .228.

Exeuction in the A's offense may improve under Melvin. Maybe not. But it would be wrong to look at the A's execution this weekend and conclude that they do the little things needed to win as often as the White Sox do.

You are right, it was a small sample size. From someone who does not follow A's baseball, watching them advancing runners with sac bunts and flies with ease gave me the wrong impression. Looks like these few games were the anomaly instead of the norm for them. Those stats you posted are abysmal. Quite surprised that the Sox overall are doing ok compared to the league with risp hitting. We could be alot more frustrated looking at those numbers...

asindc
06-13-2011, 04:44 PM
You are right, it was a small sample size. From someone who does not follow A's baseball, watching them advancing runners with sac bunts and flies with ease gave me the wrong impression. Looks like these few games were the anomaly instead of the norm for them. Those stats you posted are abysmal. Quite surprised that the Sox overall are doing ok compared to the league with risp hitting. We could be alot more frustrated looking at those numbers...

That would be the exact point of TDog's post. I am confident that you are not alone in being surprised by those numbers, but I'm not. The Sox are below .500 mainly because they have coughed up five (FIVE!) 9th inning leads this season thus far.

Tragg
06-13-2011, 04:49 PM
Exeuction in the A's offense may improve under Melvin. Maybe not. But it would be wrong to look at the A's execution this weekend and conclude that they do the little things needed to win as often as the White Sox do.

Are there any stats on how the Sox stand on scoring runners from 3rd with 0 or 1 outs? They seem to be particularly poor in that regard, but I may have high expectations.

doublem23
06-13-2011, 05:22 PM
Damn guys, even Juan Pierre thinks he sucks

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-pierre-not-playing-way-i-am-capable-20110613,0,5952982.story

soltrain21
06-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Grand Canyon is an awful nickname.

JB98
06-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Against the Angels this season, with a closer throwing 100 mph,the A's were losing by one run with two outsi in the ninth and Crisp got a two-strike hit, stole second and came home to tie the game on a Barton single. The A's won in extra-innings, with the help of poor Angels defense. If you only watched that one game, you would have to rate the A's as the team to beat in the AL West.

The thing is, if you talk to A's fans, they never execute. They never score leadoff doubles. They never move the runner over. They never get the runner in from third with less than two outs. If you watch a lot of A's games, you see that moving the runner over, as Matsui did with his fly ball, and getting him in is the exception.

You think the White Sox are weak at hitting with runners in scoring position? The A's are hitting .242. The American League is hitting .254. And for that matter, the White Sox are hitting .254. The White Sox are only hitting .231 with two outs and runners in scoring position, but the league is only hitting .228.

Exeuction in the A's offense may improve under Melvin. Maybe not. But it would be wrong to look at the A's execution this weekend and conclude that they do the little things needed to win as often as the White Sox do.

The A's execution defensively is even worse than their offensive execution.

My goodness, that infield defense is dreadful. The Sox were able to take advantage of Oakland miscues the last two games.

TDog
06-13-2011, 05:48 PM
Are there any stats on how the Sox stand on scoring runners from 3rd with 0 or 1 outs? They seem to be particularly poor in that regard, but I may have high expectations.

I have never been able to find the specific statistic that answers that question. The splits I refer to are deceptive because they show RBIs in situations with runners on third and less than two out. On opening day, for example, Adam Dunn hit a bases-loaded double for three RBIs. That doesn't mean he drove in three runners from third with less than two outs. But, for what it's worth, the White Sox have a .314 batting average with runners on third and less than two outs. The league is hitting .320. The Sox have 81 RBIs in 102 at bats. Also, they have 19 sacrifice flies that don't count as at bats. They have taken four bases-loaded walks, although I can't tell how many came with less than two out. Of course, in the first half inning of the Sox season after Dunn struck out with a runner on third with less than two outs, Konerko and Quentin followed with hits to drive in runs. What I would like to find is a stat on how many runners who reach third with less than two outs eventually do and do not score.

During a recent Giants game I was watching, either Duane Kuiper or Mike Krukow said the National League average for runners scoring from third with less than two outs was 57 percent. I don't know where they got that figure, though.

To answer the original question, every team I watch on television seems poor in that regard, at least a lot poorer than they should be. Except sometimes when they are outstanding and fans think that should be the overall norm.

vinny
06-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Are there any stats on how the Sox stand on scoring runners from 3rd with 0 or 1 outs? They seem to be particularly poor in that regard, but I may have high expectations.

If you check out Baseball Reference's "Situational Hitting" for the Sox, it shows this season we've had 137 plate appearances with a runner at third and less than 2 out. We score the runner about 47% of the time, compared with the league average 53%. Among the regular starters, here's how the numbers look:

Ramirez 8/24
Konerko 12/21
Dunn 8/18
Pierre 3/12
Rios 5/12
Quentin 5/11
AJ 4/9
Beckham 6/7

palehozenychicty
06-13-2011, 11:35 PM
This team could benefit from a decent farm system so they would be able to acquire Heath Bell.

For real. We need the guy. Badly. If KW can get him without giving up Viciedo, I'll leave him alone for another year. :redneck

hawkjt
06-14-2011, 02:30 AM
Damn guys, even Juan Pierre thinks he sucks

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-pierre-not-playing-way-i-am-capable-20110613,0,5952982.story

This attitude of Juan's is why you keep playing him. He knows he needs to do better and is not satisfied at all with his play. I like this team's togetherness,and Juan is part of it. But if he does get sat down, he will not bitch.