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View Full Version : Boston Globe - How to fix the Flubs


Fenway
06-12-2011, 09:49 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2011/06/12/in_an_overhaul_cubs_should_try_to_put_sox_on/?page=full

TommyJohn
06-12-2011, 09:59 AM
Mod edit: do not directly quote copyrighted material. It's in the WSI rules. You can paraphrase a passage you wish to bring to our attention without quoting.
Good grief. The Cubs should be embarrassed because they didn't bow, genuflect or otherwise treat the series with the Red Sox with reverence? Gag.

sullythered
06-12-2011, 10:46 AM
Good grief. The Cubs should be embarrassed because they didn't bow, genuflect or otherwise treat the series with the Red Sox with reverence? Gag.

I second this. Boy, I hate the Red Sox nation.

MarySwiss
06-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Good grief. The Cubs should be embarrassed because they didn't bow, genuflect or otherwise treat the series with the Red Sox with reverence? Gag.
Seriously, Tommy! I sometimes find it hard to believe that I once actually liked the Red Sox! Crap like this, coupled with the whole relentless East Coast homage-fest, makes it very, very easy to dislike them.

MARTINMVP
06-12-2011, 10:55 AM
Reading that, I thought it would had been appropriate if published by The Onion.

Fenway
06-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Seriously, Tommy! I sometimes find it hard to believe that I once actually liked the Red Sox! Crap like this, coupled with the whole relentless East Coast homage-fest, makes it very, very easy to dislike them.

:?::scratch:

Ricketts told the Boston media he was shocked at how the Flubs looked in Boston as so many fans traveled for the series. Cubs won one game when the Boston bullpen imploded but I think you are missing the point.

SI1020
06-12-2011, 10:59 AM
It gets harder all the time. I always kind of liked of New England, and yes I still hope the Bruins can pull through in the Stanley Cup Finals. Pretentious **** like this does make you want to retch. Even with all the condescension there is still some underlying Cubbie love there. Like why don't you get your act together and be like us so you can join this sainted club? Enough already.

MarySwiss
06-12-2011, 11:11 AM
:?::scratch:

Ricketts told the Boston media he was shocked at how the Flubs looked in Boston as so many fans traveled for the series. Cubs won one game when the Boston bullpen imploded but I think you are missing the point.
No, Fens; I think YOU are. At least the point I and some others in this thread are making, which is that we're sick of this "we're entitled" Red Sox Nation attitude.

Fenway
06-12-2011, 11:11 AM
Every single thing Cafardo suggested has been posted by others here....

Crane Kenney has to go and quickly...

IF Ricketts is smart he gives Larry Lucchino complete control to remake the team. Larry has done all he can in Boston and wants another challenge. John Henry gave him sweat equity for his job in Boston. The stadium is the biggest problem but a Lucchino would tell Tom Tunney the city can no longer dictate what the team can do.

I doubt McDonough would ever leave the Hawks now so Lucchino would be the guy to go after. He has said he would love the Pittsburgh job as that is where he is from.

MarySwiss
06-12-2011, 11:19 AM
Every single thing Cafardo suggested has been posted by others here....

Crane Kenney has to go and quickly...

IF Ricketts is smart he gives Larry Lucchino complete control to remake the team. Larry has done all he can in Boston and wants another challenge. John Henry gave him sweat equity for his job in Boston. The stadium is the biggest problem but a Lucchino would tell Tom Tunney the city can no longer dictate what the team can do.

I doubt McDonough would ever leave the Hawks now so Lucchino would be the guy to go after. He has said he would love the Pittsburgh job as that is where he is from.
Others here have suggested that the Cubs hire as many Red Sox people as possible? I must have missed that thread. :?:

Fenway
06-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Others here have suggested that the Cubs hire as many Red Sox people as possible? I must have missed that thread. :?:

Or hire the Tampa GM (which he mentioned ) or SOMEBODY that knows what they are doing.

Boston is the obvious place to look as they had the same issues 10 years ago with an aging ballpark and unable to win it all.

getonbckthr
06-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Jim Hendry is far from a great GM and his bad moves however the 4 specific ones they mention how can they call bad moves?

Ramirez- their #4 hitter who until this season has always produced

Zambrano- Thier staff Ace who has been solid and recieved a market based contract

Soriano- Did they over-pay? Perhaps a little bit. However he was the top free agent that year in a position that was the Cubs biggest need.

Fukudome- Yes he has been a bust however I remember his being very attractive to many teams to the point that our Sox and the Red Sox actually offered a little more money but Fukudome went to the Cubs because he wanted to be the first Japanese player with the Cubs.

DirtySox
06-12-2011, 03:59 PM
What an awful, self-fellating article. Thanks for posting it.

kittle42
06-12-2011, 04:04 PM
What an awful, self-fellating article. Thanks for posting it.

No kidding. Fens, you're not doing much to avoid inciting the anti-Boston-centric-post crowd here.

RadioheadRocks
06-12-2011, 05:02 PM
One of the points mentioned in the article was having Janet Marie Smith upgrade Wrigley the way she did Fenway Park.

Am I missing something or didn't the Cubs already take a pass on her services in that respect? :dunno:

FielderJones
06-12-2011, 05:28 PM
I stopped reading once I saw Hendry described as "respected". I figured the rest would be utter nonsense as well.

Hitmen77
06-13-2011, 09:53 AM
Good grief. The Cubs should be embarrassed because they didn't bow, genuflect or otherwise treat the series with the Red Sox with reverence? Gag.

No kidding! Geez, talk about a sense of self importance!

OMG, one of the worst teams in MLB played poorly and only won one game against one of the best teams in baseball?! This is a total travesty!! Their combined history and national love and shared old stadium-ness should have generated enough good baseball karma to have made this series one for the ages! Now Ken Burns has lost about 15 minutes of material from his Baseball series' 11th Inning. DAMN YOU CUBS!

:?::scratch:

Ricketts told the Boston media he was shocked at how the Flubs looked in Boston as so many fans traveled for the series. Cubs won one game when the Boston bullpen imploded but I think you are missing the point.

The Cubs have the 2nd worst record in baseball. They have had plenty to be embarrassed about this year. To think the Boston series should be at the top of their list of embarrassments smacks of East Coast hubris.

I stopped reading once I saw Hendry described as "respected". I figured the rest would be utter nonsense as well.

You figured correctly.

.....except that you did miss out on the blurb about ex-White Sox Brian Daubach being Bryce Harper's manager in the minors. :tongue:

asindc
06-13-2011, 10:17 AM
No kidding! Geez, talk about a sense of self importance!

OMG, one of the worst teams in MLB played poorly and only won one game against one of the best teams in baseball?! This is a total travesty!! Their combined history and national love and shared old stadium-ness should have generated enough good baseball karma to have made this series one for the ages! Now Ken Burns has lost about 15 minutes of material from his Baseball series' 11th Inning. DAMN YOU CUBS!



The Cubs have the 2nd worst record in baseball. They have had plenty to be embarrassed about this year. To think the Boston series should be at the top of their list of embarrassments smacks of East Coast hubris.



You figured correctly.

.....except that you did miss out on the blurb about ex-White Sox Brian Daubach being Bryce Harper's manager in the minors. :tongue:

I approve of this post.

Hitmen77
06-13-2011, 01:31 PM
Every single thing Cafardo suggested has been posted by others here....

Crane Kenney has to go and quickly...

IF Ricketts is smart he gives Larry Lucchino complete control to remake the team. Larry has done all he can in Boston and wants another challenge. John Henry gave him sweat equity for his job in Boston. The stadium is the biggest problem but a Lucchino would tell Tom Tunney the city can no longer dictate what the team can do.

I doubt McDonough would ever leave the Hawks now so Lucchino would be the guy to go after. He has said he would love the Pittsburgh job as that is where he is from.

How comparable are the Cubs now vs. the Red Sox when John Henry first bought the team?

People like to think they're comparable because both had/have long title droughts, but I really don't remember the last time the Red Sox were laughingstocks. They have had a solid team for many years before 2004.

They may both be very big market team, but I don't think even the Cubs can match the revenue streams that the Red Sox have. They don't have an equivalent of NESN and while Cubs tickets are expensive, I don't think they can get away with charging Red Sox prices. Ricketts has a ton of debt from the purchase of the team and is faced with the prospect of a very expensive Wrigley rehab.

The Red Sox may have brought in very talented people under their new ownership, but they also apparently had a ton of money to pour into both free agents and into scouting/player development. Ricketts may not have this luxury.

Finally, if the answer to fixing a bad baseball team truly is to just hire a bunch of Red Sox personnel, why is this solution specific to the Cubs? Couldn't the same be said for any mediocre MLB franchise?

Lip Man 1
06-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Hitmen:

The Red Sox haven't had a losing season since 1997.

Money talks doesn't it? (LOL)

But I guess they still haven't recovered from the 19 inning game with the White Sox right before the All Star Break in 2006! :D:

Historically though the Red Sox were a joke through most of the time period between the late 1950's through the early 1970's, with the exception of a year or two (1967, 1975)

In the 1960's for example, the home opener attendance figures were less than 20 thousand usually.

The Cubs "problem" to me isn't that hard to figure out, I already told the board in a thread one time about what Vince Lloyd told me in 1976, i.e. his conversation with P.K. Wrigley and why the Cubs were "losing..."

The Cubs philosophy from as far back as when Wrigley owned the team has been first to "entertain" the masses and second (some might say a distant second) "win." Until that changes and the peripheral issues (advertising signs, renaming the bleachers, trying to get the preppies to drink more beer for example) are made of secondary importance they will ALWAYS lose and be a joke.

Lip

Fenway
06-13-2011, 03:01 PM
Hitmen:

The Red Sox haven't had a losing season since 1997.

Money talks doesn't it? (LOL)





Money usually talks - but the Cubs have the highest payroll in the NL :cool:

Steve Stone in his new book writes the Cubs do not know how to develop a winning team for Wrigley.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog%3af5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost%3a6878a20b-0f5f-4330-8935-55bc0afd699b&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Stone dropping hints to Ricketts he might want the job?

Lip Man 1
06-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Money enables teams like the Red Sox and Yankees to:

1. Pick up the talent that small market teams want to get rid of because of salary concerns.
2. Allow themselves to continue to add payroll at the trading deadline.
3. Allows them to simply 'bring somebody else in' because of injury, slumps or stupidity during a season.

Yes you have to be smart about it (the Cubs aren't) but money allows the Red Sox and Yankees to buy their way into the postseason on a regular basis and makes the possibility of having a "losing" season extremely remote outside of a plane crash.

MLB needs to put a 3rd team in NYC and a 2nd in Boston and 'poof' they revert back to a normal team.

I'm more impressed with the White Sox having 17 winning seasons in a row from 1951 through 1967 then ANY of the streaks the Yanks and Red Sox have put together since then.

Lip

asindc
06-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Money enables teams like the Red Sox and Yankees to:

1. Pick up the talent that small market teams want to get rid of because of salary concerns.
2. Allow themselves to continue to add payroll at the trading deadline.
3. Allows them to simply 'bring somebody else in' because of injury, slumps or stupidity during a season.

Yes you have to be smart about it (the Cubs aren't) but money allows the Red Sox and Yankees to buy their way into the postseason on a regular basis and makes the possibility of having a "losing" season extremely remote outside of a plane crash.

MLB needs to put a 3rd team in NYC and a 2nd in Boston and 'poof' they revert back to a normal team.

I'm more impressed with the White Sox having 17 winning seasons in a row from 1951 through 1967 then ANY of the streaks the Yanks and Red Sox have put together since then.

Lip

This is the thing many people fail to recognize (or just simply ignore) in this discussion. It not only establishes a higher ceiling for those teams, but also a higher floor as well. Witness NYY's response to failing to make the playoffs in 2008. Did they turn to their farm system to shore up the roster? Nope. They virtually raided other MLB rosters by dangling more money than anyone else could muster.

Tragg
06-13-2011, 04:45 PM
Boston drafts well and does a great job accumulating picks. That gives them chits with which to trade and still have a strong farm left.
Heck the Sox have trouble accurately scouting "proven veterans".

khan
06-13-2011, 04:48 PM
Money enables teams like the Red Sox and Yankees to:

1. Pick up the talent that small market teams want to get rid of because of salary concerns.
2. Allow themselves to continue to add payroll at the trading deadline.
3. Allows them to simply 'bring somebody else in' because of injury, slumps or stupidity during a season.

Yes you have to be smart about it (the Cubs aren't) but money allows the Red Sox and Yankees to buy their way into the postseason on a regular basis and makes the possibility of having a "losing" season extremely remote outside of a plane crash.

MLB needs to put a 3rd team in NYC and a 2nd in Boston and 'poof' they revert back to a normal team.


I agree with all of this.

For all the [to quote others here] self-fellating BS we read/hear/see on all manner of East Coast media outlets, I can't think of any markets back east that have 3 MLB clubs within 100 miles of each other. Between our SOX, the scrubs, and milwaukee, all three teams have been able to at least reach the playoffs in the past decade.

Put a team in Baahstan, and a team team in Brooklyn, and MLB will be more competitive from top to bottom.

Hitmen77
06-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Money usually talks - but the Cubs have the highest payroll in the NL :cool:

Steve Stone in his new book writes the Cubs do not know how to develop a winning team for Wrigley.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog%3af5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost%3a6878a20b-0f5f-4330-8935-55bc0afd699b&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Stone dropping hints to Ricketts he might want the job?

This is part of what puts Ricketts between a rock and a hard place. He can't simply buy his way out of this mess in the short term.

I know that Wrigley will always bring in good crowds. I don't dispute it's popularity among the general public and the Cubs' large fan base. But ticket sales are on the decline so I don't see any new revenue streams coming their way. If the Sox can really get their act together and make the playoffs this year, I wonder if that would even further anger/alienate some Cubs fans.

Despite its popularity, how much of a money pit Wrigley is for the current ownership when you consider maintenance alone without even talking about renovations? I'd imagine that up-keep alone is costly. How long they can hold out before the structure really needs a serious rehab?

SI1020
06-13-2011, 05:59 PM
I agree with all of this.

For all the [to quote others here] self-fellating BS we read/hear/see on all manner of East Coast media outlets, I can't think of any markets back east that have 3 MLB clubs within 100 miles of each other. Between our SOX, the scrubs, and milwaukee, all three teams have been able to at least reach the playoffs in the past decade.

Put a team in Baahstan, and a team team in Brooklyn, and MLB will be more competitive from top to bottom. Until recently I would have been against this, but lately I've been thinking maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

soltrain21
06-13-2011, 06:58 PM
Brian Daubach is Bryce Harper's manager? Hopefully he whooped his ass after Harper blew that kiss to the pitcher.

#onlythinginthearticleworthreading.

doublem23
06-14-2011, 12:48 PM
For all the [to quote others here] self-fellating BS we read/hear/see on all manner of East Coast media outlets, I can't think of any markets back east that have 3 MLB clubs within 100 miles of each other. Between our SOX, the scrubs, and milwaukee, all three teams have been able to at least reach the playoffs in the past decade.

Put a team in Baahstan, and a team team in Brooklyn, and MLB will be more competitive from top to bottom.

The distance between Philadelphia and New York is about equal to the distance between Chicago and Milwaukee.

doublem23
06-14-2011, 12:54 PM
This is part of what puts Ricketts between a rock and a hard place. He can't simply buy his way out of this mess in the short term.

They might be able to, the Cubs will/can peel the following salaries off their books this off-season:

Aramis Ramirez, $14.6 M, $2 M buy-out
Kosuke Fukudome, $13.5 M
Carlos Silva, $11.5 M
Carlos Pena, $10 M
Matt Garza, $5.95 M

That's over $55 M off the books and all it would cost them is $4 M next year in options for Ramirez and Silva.

Red Barchetta
06-14-2011, 05:47 PM
I never bought into the "Red Sox Nation", theory, but after vacationing in Orlando this weekend at Universal Studios, Red Sox caps/shirts, etc. were definitely the most worn pro (not just MLB) I saw. They were everywhere! :?:

Typical east coast "center of the pro sports universe" article bias. :rolleyes:

Fenway
06-14-2011, 05:52 PM
The distance between Philadelphia and New York is about equal to the distance between Chicago and Milwaukee.

There is no buffer zone at all - Trenton tilts Philadelphia but next town is Princeton and it is all NY

asindc
06-14-2011, 06:15 PM
There is no buffer zone at all - Trenton tilts Philadelphia but next town is Princeton and it is all NY

This is true.

StillMissOzzie
06-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Said that Hendry was one of the more well-respected GM's in all of baseball? Sure, by MLB agents everywhere. :rolleyes:

SMO
:gulp: