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ShooterMcGavin
06-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Pierre had a terrible game.

Quentin had a very nice game.

Viva Medias B's
06-08-2011, 10:29 PM
It seems we're just a step or two away from winning on a consistent basis.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Well at least they came back to make a game of it...

Now 4-6 in extra inning games this year, have lost their last three extra inning games in a row.

Blew a chance to pick up another game on Cleveland however.

Viva:

That's the M.O. of an inconsistent club.

Lip

ShooterMcGavin
06-08-2011, 10:32 PM
I asked this question in the game thread, but did not receive an answer:
If the Sox send Harrell down when Peavy returns, do the Sox jeopardize losing him to another team like with Gray and Marquez?

Lip Man 1
06-08-2011, 10:33 PM
Shooter:

No disrespect to the question but if someone claims him it's no big loss in anyway.

Lip

JB98
06-08-2011, 10:37 PM
Pierre is a zero-tool player at this stage of his career.

He's basically a mascot for Ozzie's offensive philosophy. The least he could do is field his position, but he can't even do that.

ShooterMcGavin
06-08-2011, 10:37 PM
Shooter:

No disrespect to the question but if someone claims him it's no big loss in anyway.

Lip

No disrespect taken; I was just wondering if Harrell is sent down, will he be subject to be picked up by another team?

That said, while I'm quite ignorant to organizational depth needs, it concerns me that the Sox could lose Gray, Marquez and Harrell without compensation. I'm also concerned who else the Sox could bring up for relief in case of a pitching injury later in the season.

Soxfest
06-08-2011, 10:40 PM
Another bad home loss.:angry:

BainesHOF
06-08-2011, 10:41 PM
This team is going to need Dunn and Rios to hit like they can in order to have a legit chance at winning the division. It just makes too many mistakes to consistently win otherwise. Lots of good things happened tonight, but Pierre and Morel turned that fly ball into a circus.

Our manager looked in bad shape in the postgame press conference. More Twitter nonsense, huh? It's beyond pathetic at this point. Guillen needs to go for everyone's sake.

FielderJones
06-08-2011, 10:41 PM
It would have helped a lot if Floyd could have thrown some strikes tonight. Missing almost 40 pitches out of over 100 is not going to get the job done.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2011, 10:48 PM
Baines:

Based on what the Tribune is reporting Ozzie apparently was short in the temper department in the pregame when the subject came up about the tweeing again by his son and I'm sure Kenny's comments about why the Sox wouldn't draft his youngest son probably rubbed him raw as well.

Remember he's already publicly said that it feels like September already to him and his coaches.

As an aside they just can't seem to get over the "three games under .500 hump" can they?

Lip

JB98
06-08-2011, 10:49 PM
Maybe the Sox should sign Ozney Guillen as a undrafted free agent and stick him in left field. He probably could have caught that routine fly in the 10th.

SoxSpeed22
06-08-2011, 10:53 PM
Other than Carlos, not much to look at.

ChiSoxGal85
06-08-2011, 10:57 PM
That sucked. Despite Gavin's shaky command, the Sox offense (aka Carlos Quentin) fight to stay in there, and manage to tie it up -- only to have the usually reliable Sergio have an off night. Well, they won the series, but I was hoping for the sweep.

slavko
06-08-2011, 10:57 PM
Baines:

Based on what the Tribune is reporting Ozzie apparently was short in the temper department in the pregame when the subject came up about the tweeing again by his son and I'm sure Kenny's comments about why the Sox wouldn't draft his youngest son probably rubbed him raw as well.

Remember he's already publicly said that it feels like September already to him and his coaches.

As an aside they just can't seem to get over the "three games under .500 hump" can they?

Lip

"For it's a long, long while from May to December, but the days grow short when you reach September." (Kurt Weill) It could be managerial September for Ozzie Right About Now.

How are we not blaming Beckham for not turning the DP on a ball that went right by him when they got 3 in the 6th? Not even mentioning the moonball that was thrown away but didn't result in any damage, same inning. If Getz's range was a problem, so is Gordon's. Credit to him for the nice 2-out RBI, though. Pierre's a horns guy and Beckham's a halo guy, so Juan gets blamed, deservedly.

GoGoCrede
06-08-2011, 11:05 PM
Boo. At least the food was good and the weather was nice.

JB98
06-08-2011, 11:37 PM
"For it's a long, long while from May to December, but the days grow short when you reach September." (Kurt Weill) It could be managerial September for Ozzie Right About Now.

How are we not blaming Beckham for not turning the DP on a ball that went right by him when they got 3 in the 6th? Not even mentioning the moonball that was thrown away but didn't result in any damage, same inning. If Getz's range was a problem, so is Gordon's. Credit to him for the nice 2-out RBI, though. Pierre's a horns guy and Beckham's a halo guy, so Juan gets blamed, deservedly.

They don't get the DP even with a good throw.

doublem23
06-08-2011, 11:39 PM
Overall a pretty good game at the park, I thought. You don't win every good game, but my god, the lineup is just bad after 2-3-4. Beckham's in a nice little groove, but I don't think you can really count on him. Other than that, 5, 6, 7, and 9 are basically automatic outs.

Only ****ty part of the night was the amateur comedian in Sec. 520. Nobody cares about your fantasy team, man.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-08-2011, 11:46 PM
Pierre is a zero-tool player at this stage of his career.

He's basically a mascot for Ozzie's offensive philosophy. The least he could do is field his position, but he can't even do that.

This is a perfectly accurate description.

JB98
06-08-2011, 11:54 PM
There is no PTC winner posted yet, but I'm sure it is Carlos Quentin.

Those who want to listen to me bitch about Pierror some more can read my TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4130).

doublem23
06-09-2011, 12:29 AM
Pierre is a zero-tool player at this stage of his career.

He's basically a mascot for Ozzie's offensive philosophy. The least he could do is field his position, but he can't even do that.

I would like to see him drop and give 10 pushups a la Willie Mays Hayes every time he puts the ball in the air.

hawkjt
06-09-2011, 12:35 AM
As Ozzie explained, the Sox were in a no-doubles formation on the Smoak play,swung around to right field. The ball was hit in a dead zone,period.
Pierre is fast,and he tried to get there,but Morel was in the way ...they ended up colliding but you imply that Pierre pulled off unnecessarily...right,he should have gone full blast into Morel and risk ending both of their careers.

Pierre did not have a good game,but singling him out is not right. Floyd had a tough nite also. Sox have beaten the M's 10 straight at home...due for a loss to them.

JB98
06-09-2011, 12:47 AM
As Ozzie explained, the Sox were in a no-doubles formation on the Smoak play,swung around to right field. The ball was hit in a dead zone,period.
Pierre is fast,and he tried to get there,but Morel was in the way ...they ended up colliding but you imply that Pierre pulled off unnecessarily...right,he should have gone full blast into Morel and risk ending both of their careers.

Pierre did not have a good game,but singling him out is not right. Floyd had a tough nite also. Sox have beaten the M's 10 straight at home...due for a loss to them.

That ball has to be caught. Period.

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2011, 12:50 AM
That ball has to be caught. Period.Yes, but since I wasn't there, I don't know if Pierre called Morel off. It was Pierre's ball, but I'd rather have him pull up than destroy somebody's knee like I've seen in other similar collisions.

cards press box
06-09-2011, 12:54 AM
Pierre had a terrible game.

Quentin had a very nice game.

Pierre is a zero-tool player at this stage of his career.

He's basically a mascot for Ozzie's offensive philosophy. The least he could do is field his position, but he can't even do that.

Did Pierre misplay a fly in the 10th inning into a double? I didn't see the play but I will say this: at this point in his career, Pierre seems to be not much more than a fourth outfielder.

I wonder how long it will be before the Sox call up Viciedo to play left field. And when they do that, who becomes the Sox lead off man?

Crooked Number
06-09-2011, 01:33 AM
It seems we're just a step or two away from winning on a consistent basis.


Great night at the park, awesome weather, fun people and got a great view of Carlos' bombs from sec 134. The sound of his bat this year is just like '08. That second one got outta here in like 2.5 seconds.

Two big moments in this game. Ozzie getting cute and decided to take Matt out for some reason. Just let him finish the god damn inning. He was doing great. There was no one on, two outs, no reason for Ozzie to get Crain for Miguel Olivio. Even if Crain gets him, i still wouldn't have liked the move. Unnecessary.

Noticed right away that Serge didn't have his good stuff tonight. But, he still pitched well enough. Pierre. Ugh. As soon as i saw that ball hit, i knew it was trouble. I thought "he is playing no doubles defense, but he has make up speed so this should be ok....but wait he isnt sprinting for it....oh ****" Juan has to break for that ball right away, he hesitated, and it cost us the game.

Getting to the quote, i totally agree. This team is missing two big bats, and although Alex got a hit tonight he had awful ones too. They are capable of putting together runs, they just need to figure a few things out. Gavin pitched well, and the starters continue to keep us in games.

The thing i liked the most was that we finally got to the soft tossing lefty. Earlier in the year, you could have stuck a fork in these guys and we would have only scored the 1 run. Carlos put the team on his back and gave us a chance. Beckham with another big hit, he was spectacular in the field as well.

Things are looking up. I wish we had a California climate here because the Sox love that warm weather man. Feels like a different team now.

ZombieRob
06-09-2011, 02:44 AM
They don't get the DP even with a good throw.
JB I still contend they had a play at the plate Morel would of had him by 5 feet. With the play in front of him I'm shocked he didn't come home.

ZombieRob
06-09-2011, 02:46 AM
Did Pierre misplay a fly in the 10th inning into a double? I didn't see the play but I will say this: at this point in his career, Pierre seems to be not much more than a fourth outfielder.

I wonder how long it will be before the Sox call up Viciedo to play left field. And when they do that, who becomes the Sox lead off man?
Can Lillibridge lead off and play left or am I reaching?

PeteWard
06-09-2011, 03:14 AM
Can Lillibridge lead off and play left or am I reaching?

Of course he can play left but I would not want to see him moved to lead-off where the change might get to him. he is one of about four guys on the team who actually hits and I would hate to screw that up.

ZombieRob
06-09-2011, 06:16 AM
Of course he can play left but I would not want to see him moved to lead-off where the change might get to him. he is one of about four guys on the team who actually hits and I would hate to screw that up.
Again, it's pick your poison. Lillibridge has earned the playing time. Right now he can float around, but sooner or later I'd think they'd need a position for him and left field could be it. If not that route he needs to be used a defensive replacement. I have never seen Juan this bad with the glove.

Hartman
06-09-2011, 07:20 AM
Why does it seem like this team loses every game that goes into extras?

doublem23
06-09-2011, 07:24 AM
JB I still contend they had a play at the plate Morel would of had him by 5 feet. With the play in front of him I'm shocked he didn't come home.

Yes, I was surprised he went to 2nd with that ball especially since, even if they get the DP, the run still scores since there were no outs.

Hitmen77
06-09-2011, 07:34 AM
It seems we're just a step or two away from winning on a consistent basis.

It feels like we've been saying many times during the last 5 years.

russ99
06-09-2011, 07:43 AM
Pierre is a zero-tool player at this stage of his career.

He's basically a mascot for Ozzie's offensive philosophy. The least he could do is field his position, but he can't even do that.

Could you at least consider that Morel called that one and it sailed on him? i.e. a rookie mistake? Guess there needs to be a scapegoat after every loss.

Pierre's the reason for the offense not hitting against Vargas, tons of swinging for the fences after the 6th and the pitching failing us.

Why does it seem like this team loses every game that goes into extras?

We seem to be one reliever short, and it sucks when our setup man gives up homers. I wonder why Sale didn't get the call in the 10th...

A sweep would have been nice, but we won the series against tough pitching. We need to do the same vs. Oakland.

Chez
06-09-2011, 07:47 AM
Question for those of you who were at the game: On the ball that fell between Pierre and Morel in the 10th, were was Ramirez? I realize that the batter was lefthanded and Ramirez was probably shaded up the middle, but that's a ball that the shortstop usually has a better shot at than the third baseman. Pierre should have had it, but I was surprised that Ramirez never even entered the picture. It looked like Pierre got spooked by the possibility of a collision with Morel. Pierre has to be more vocal in calling off Morel. That play has to be made.

aryzner
06-09-2011, 07:47 AM
Two big moments in this game. Ozzie getting cute and decided to take Matt out for some reason. Just let him finish the god damn inning. He was doing great. There was no one on, two outs, no reason for Ozzie to get Crain for Miguel Olivio. Even if Crain gets him, i still wouldn't have liked the move. Unnecessary.
I was there and said the same thing when Ozzie brought in Crain. I felt like Matt was finally having a good outing (for once) and that he was capable of delivering the final out of the inning.

aryzner
06-09-2011, 07:59 AM
Question for those of you who were at the game: On the ball that fell between Pierre and Morel in the 10th, were was Ramirez? I realize that the batter was lefthanded and Ramirez was probably shaded up the middle, but that's a ball that the shortstop usually has a better shot at than the third baseman. Pierre should have had it, but I was surprised that Ramirez never even entered the picture.
To be honest with you, I wasn't paying a whole ton of attention to Ramirez on that play, so I don't remember where he was. All I know is as soon as it was hit, I could tell that Morel had no shot, and I honestly thought it would be an easy play for our left fielder. As soon as the ball was hit, I immediately thought, "Alright! One out!" Guess that was a bad assumption. :(:

doublem23
06-09-2011, 08:00 AM
It seems we're just a step or two away from winning on a consistent basis.

I really don't understand what this means, since the Sox bottomed out at 11-22 about a month ago, they're 19-12, 3rd best record in the AL over that span. Sure, they blew a couple of wins over that span, but find me a team that doesn't lose a game it should win.

guillensdisciple
06-09-2011, 09:05 AM
Too repetitive for my liking. Have to take 3 of 4 in this series for this home stand to mean anything. Otherwise we're same old 4 games under and that means we have made zero progress regardless of all the great things people talk about. The fact remains that this team dug itself into a huge hole, and it HAS to play really good baseball. We have been fairly stagnant for over 3 weeks now. We hit a high of being 3 games under .500 and can't seem to shake it.

There will be a breaking point too. If this team continues to float, it will most likely implode. Can't keep playing around with your ability like that.

Sad
06-09-2011, 09:19 AM
I was there and said the same thing when Ozzie brought in Crain. I felt like Matt was finally having a good outing (for once) and that he was capable of delivering the final out of the inning.

yep
Floyd left in 1 batter too many
Thornton removed 1 batter too soon

:angry:

hawkjt
06-09-2011, 09:21 AM
Yes, I was surprised he went to 2nd with that ball especially since, even if they get the DP, the run still scores since there were no outs.


I agree. That was a bad decision by Morel. Again, that game was lost by a number of bad decisions,in hindsight.
1. Taking out Thornton to face Olivo
2. Leaving Santos out there for a second inning.
3. Indecision by Pierre on Smoaks blooper
4. Morel going for the dp over getting the lead runner at home.
5. Not a decison,but Gordo not knocking down that sharply hit ball only two feet away.
6. Gavin nibbling all nite..

As they say,it takes a team to win or lose...a lot of people contributed to this loss.

The Immigrant
06-09-2011, 09:43 AM
I agree. That was a bad decision by Morel.

I don't know, that would have been a tough play to make since Ryan got a good jump and was blocking the path to home plate, plus the grounder by Kennedy was not hit very hard. If the tag at home plate is not made, the Mariners are set up for a big inning. I think going to second was the right move.

The real problem was Floyd's inability to put away either Peguero or Gutierrez, plus the fact that he paid no attention to Kennedy at first base.

DickAllen72
06-09-2011, 09:52 AM
It seems we're just a step or two away from winning on a consistent basis.
Step 1: Fire Ozzie
Step 2: Dump Pierre

Step 2 will never happen before step 1. Unfortunately, I don't see step 1 happening anytime soon.

DickAllen72
06-09-2011, 10:03 AM
I didn't see the play but I will say this: at this point in his career, Pierre seems to be not much more than a fourth outfielder.

I wonder how long it will be before the Sox call up Viciedo to play left field. And when they do that, who becomes the Sox lead off man?
You have to be able to play more than one OF position to be a fourth OFer. Pierre has no arm to play RF and can't even handle LF let alone CF.

If the Sox ever call up Viciedo to replace Pierre (probably never as long as Ozzie is here unless Pierre gets injured), they can either lead off Ramirez or Rios when he comes out of his slump. Anybody would be better than Pierre.

Right now I'd go:

Ramirez
AJ
Quentin
Konerko
Viciedo
Beckham
Dunn
Rios
Morel

But it will never happen with Ozzie here.....

The Immigrant
06-09-2011, 10:16 AM
I wonder how long it will be before the Sox call up Viciedo to play left field. And when they do that, who becomes the Sox lead off man?

It should be Ramirez. His OBP is thirty points higher than Pierre's and he's less likely to make dumbass outs on the basepaths. Pierre is awful.

kjhanson
06-09-2011, 10:25 AM
When Juan Pierre is not stealing bases at an 80% clip, he has no place in any lineup. There are a million guys in the minors who can hit .256/.322/.304 with an awful arm and terrible defense and another million who are playing softball in a beer league who could do the same. Take Carlos and Brent, put one in LF and one in RF. Have Alexei leadoff, put Gordon and his .320/.424/.440 in last 16 back in the 2-spot. Done.

Carolina Kenny
06-09-2011, 10:57 AM
That ball has to be caught. Period.

Raise your hand if you think Lillibridge catchs that ball.

khan
06-09-2011, 11:29 AM
I agree. That was a bad decision by Morel. Again, that game was lost by a number of bad decisions,in hindsight.
1. Taking out Thornton to face Olivo
2. Leaving Santos out there for a second inning.
3. Indecision by Pierre on Smoaks blooper
4. Morel going for the dp over getting the lead runner at home.
5. Not a decison,but Gordo not knocking down that sharply hit ball only two feet away.
6. Gavin nibbling all nite..

As they say,it takes a team to win or lose...a lot of people contributed to this loss.

While I'm not above criticizing OG for some of his decisions, I didn't really have a problem with this one. Olivo generally crushes fastballs, and sucks a horse's ass vs. anything offspeed with movement.

Given that Thornton's best pitch [right now] is his fastball, I can at least see the decision to lift him as being defendable in this case.

When Juan Pierre is not stealing bases at an 80% clip, he has no place in any lineup. There are a million guys in the minors who can hit .256/.322/.304 with an awful arm and terrible defense and another million who are playing softball in a beer league who could do the same. Take Carlos and Brent, put one in LF and one in RF. Have Alexei leadoff, put Gordon and his .320/.424/.440 in last 16 back in the 2-spot. Done.
I agree that if Pierre isn't stealing bases at a good rate of success, he shouldn't be in the lineup.

That said, I don't know that Lillibridge can be consistently successful if he is given more playing time. I do know that he's hitting a measly .240 in June, and his OBP is down some 35 points in June. Perhaps he remains a bench player who can be used intermittently, but not as a regular part of the lineup.


I haven't checked lately, but I remember Beckham's career splits in the #2 spot in the lineup being craptacular. [READ: Brian Andersonesque]

At the same time, he seems to thrive while batting lower in the lineup. I would not move him up at this point. Don't look now, but he's hitting a middling .217/.333/.478 in June so far. His struggles would not appear to be entirely behind him.

slavko
06-09-2011, 11:34 AM
They don't get the DP even with a good throw.

I'm talking about the one hopper the second batter hit that he should have gotten to. Easy DP if he does.

JB98
06-09-2011, 12:18 PM
JB I still contend they had a play at the plate Morel would of had him by 5 feet. With the play in front of him I'm shocked he didn't come home.

No argument from me.

voodoochile
06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Well at least they made a game of it late. TCQ is the man. Nice to see Rios get a hit looks like his stance is slightly altered. Either he's got the hands slightly higher or the crouch is more pronounced bringing the hands higher in relation to his body, but maybe I'm just noticing it more and seeing something that isn't there. Either way, he got a hit that's an improvement.

JB98
06-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Could you at least consider that Morel called that one and it sailed on him? i.e. a rookie mistake? Guess there needs to be a scapegoat after every loss.

Pierre's the reason for the offense not hitting against Vargas, tons of swinging for the fences after the 6th and the pitching failing us.



We seem to be one reliever short, and it sucks when our setup man gives up homers. I wonder why Sale didn't get the call in the 10th...

A sweep would have been nice, but we won the series against tough pitching. We need to do the same vs. Oakland.


No. Because the ball was hit to medium left field. It's Pierre's ball all the way. He screwed the pooch. Period.

Tons of swinging for the fences after the sixth? Didn't watch the game, huh? The Sox plated a run in the seventh on three straight singles.

Cool stories, dude.

JB98
06-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Raise your hand if you think Lillibridge catchs that ball.

Hand raised.

Lillibridge never impressed me in the infield, but his outfield defense has been good.

JB98
06-09-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm talking about the one hopper the second batter hit that he should have gotten to. Easy DP if he does.

The runner was going and Beckham broke to cover second base. The ball was hit behind him, and he couldn't reverse direction in time.

I'm not sure why Beckham was covering there. Power hitter at the plate in Smoak. Should have been Alexei's coverage, IMO. That comes from the bench. I'm not blaming the infielders for that play not being made.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-09-2011, 12:26 PM
That said, I don't know that Lillibridge can be consistently successful if he is given more playing time. I do know that he's hitting a measly .240 in June, and his OBP is down some 35 points in June. Perhaps he remains a bench player who can be used intermittently, but not as a regular part of the lineup.



You could just as easily say Lillibridge is 9 for 34 (.265) with 2 HR, SB and 5 walks in the last 10 games.

DirtySox
06-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Hand raised.

Lillibridge never impressed me in the infield, but his outfield defense has been good.

It's where he played in college, and he played it rather well. I guess the Braves thought he had the chops for SS and never looked back.

And yes, that was Pierre's ball all the way. I don't know how anyone can argue anything otherwise.

SOX ADDICT '73
06-09-2011, 01:35 PM
I wasn't viewing the game thread, but did anybody question the decision to use Santos in a non-save situation? Maybe it doesn't apply to him, since he hasn't "officially" been named the closer, but it's uncanny how often those scenarios blow up in a team's face.

spongyfungy
06-09-2011, 01:35 PM
I was at the game and was along the first base line. Did it look like alexei wasn't going full speed to first on a single in the 6th? I was thinking it could have been a double but I wans't sure.

The Immigrant
06-09-2011, 02:06 PM
I wasn't viewing the game thread, but did anybody question the decision to use Santos in a non-save situation? Maybe it doesn't apply to him, since he hasn't "officially" been named the closer, but it's uncanny how often those scenarios blow up in a team's face.

It's a tied game at home - there's no save to be had. Having your closer pitch the bottom of the ninth is the textbook move in that situation.

Bringing him back for a second inning, well that can be debated...

kittle42
06-09-2011, 02:26 PM
It's a tied game at home - there's no save to be had. Having your closer pitch the bottom of the ninth is the textbook move in that situation.

Exactly.

KenBerryGrab
06-09-2011, 02:35 PM
It's a tied game at home - there's no save to be had. Having your closer pitch the bottom of the ninth is the textbook move in that situation.

Bringing him back for a second inning, well that can be debated...

Pitching the bottom of the ninth when you're at home is tricky. :cool:

The Immigrant
06-09-2011, 03:33 PM
Pitching the bottom of the ninth when you're at home is tricky. :cool:

I deserve a double face-palm for that.

BigKlu59
06-09-2011, 04:15 PM
No argument from me.

Confused the crap out of me.... Castro had his glove up and covered the plate...would have had him... Must be nice to give up a run for an out in a close game...

I hope this the end of the Keystone Cops field play...

BK59

Medford Bobby
06-09-2011, 05:37 PM
As soon as I finished listning to the Twins/Tribe game, I just knew the Sox would not take advantage of gaining ground.....:whiner: