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View Full Version : I can't see this team not winning the AL Central.


Mohoney
06-07-2011, 11:37 PM
With this starting pitching, all this team needs is Adam Dunn and Matt Thornton to produce to their career norms.

I honestly believe that we have substantially more depth than the Tigers, and I take NO stock in Cleveland's fluke performance. Cleveland will play their way out of this division, and in fact, I believe they already have started doing so.

Nelfox02
06-07-2011, 11:39 PM
I think you are drinking a wee bit too much of the kool aid----this is not even a .500 team

I think most of us can agree the Indians are not winning this division, but the team I think that will (Det) owns us as of late.....heading toward Twin like ownership

Sox definitely hanging in this tho

TDog
06-07-2011, 11:58 PM
I think you are drinking a wee bit too much of the kool aid----this is not even a .500 team

I think most of us can agree the Indians are not winning this division, but the team I think that will (Det) owns us as of late.....heading toward Twin like ownership

Sox definitely hanging in this tho

The Tigers are playing great baseball right now. The White Sox are playing almost as well. The difference is that the White Sox have a couple of key players who haven't even shown up yet this season.

I believe the Indians will fall out of first before the All-Star break.

Gavin
06-08-2011, 12:14 AM
I can.

Tragg
06-08-2011, 12:31 AM
Detriot is going to be tough to beat.

pudge
06-08-2011, 01:31 AM
The big fallacy here is that Dunn's "norm" can save us. His norm is 200 strikeouts and a .245 batting average. And after starting at .175, his norm is more likely .215. The ONLY chance is if Detroit winds up being not so good.

bluedemon45
06-08-2011, 01:33 AM
Games like tonight and last night prove that we can win the AL Central.

Problem is...games like tonight and last night never happen when we play AL Central contenders.

Fenway
06-08-2011, 01:39 AM
The Tigers are playing great baseball right now. The White Sox are playing almost as well. The difference is that the White Sox have a couple of key players who haven't even shown up yet this season.

I believe the Indians will fall out of first before the All-Star break.

Indians will lose first place in the next week - lead is down to 1.5

Soxman219
06-08-2011, 01:43 AM
Games like tonight and last night prove that we can win the AL Central.

Problem is...games like tonight and last night never happen when we play AL Central contenders.

They swept the Red Sox in Fenway didn't they?

Fenway
06-08-2011, 01:46 AM
They swept the Red Sox in Fenway didn't they?

Sawx-Sox in October :D:

ZombieRob
06-08-2011, 02:43 AM
They swept the Red Sox in Fenway didn't they?
After the Indians, the Sox have stunk against A.L central teams.

Zakath
06-08-2011, 07:49 AM
After the Indians, the Sox have stunk against A.L central teams.

Which isn't good considering that 57.6% of our remaining games are against AL Central teams (57/99).

On July 4, that number becomes 71.1% (54/76).

Hitmen77
06-08-2011, 08:58 AM
The Tigers are playing great baseball right now. The White Sox are playing almost as well. The difference is that the White Sox have a couple of key players who haven't even shown up yet this season.

I believe the Indians will fall out of first before the All-Star break.

The difference is that the Sox trail the Tigers by 6 games in the loss column. Detroit might not be a perfect team, but they're probably good enough to not blow that lead to us.

bluedemon45
06-08-2011, 09:06 AM
They swept the Red Sox in Fenway didn't they?

Yes they did. But when it comes to the Tigers and Twins especially in the last few years, these games are far and few between.

asindc
06-08-2011, 09:07 AM
The difference is that the Sox trail the Tigers by 6 games in the loss column. Detroit might not be a perfect team, but they're probably good enough to not blow that lead to us.

Two things:

1) The Sox definitely can do something about that with the 12-13 games left to play against them; and

2) Detroit has some make up games to play later in the season, which could eventually end up being losses.

Every year Detroit is picked to do major damage in the AL Central, yet they are the only team (besides KC) in the division to not win it within the past decade. They will have to do more to make me believe before I consider a 6-loss deficit insurmountable.

doublem23
06-08-2011, 09:17 AM
I honestly have no idea where this team is headed. I could easily see them winning 85-89 games and winning the division and I could see them crashing back to Earth and struggling to win 70. These guys are all over the place, although, I have been impressed with how they've played the last few weeks.

If they do rebound and make the postseason, can we agree that Phil Humber is the Team MVP? Paulie may be the best player on the team, but Humber's basically held us together.

Moses_Scurry
06-08-2011, 09:19 AM
The difference is that the Sox trail the Tigers by 6 games in the loss column. Detroit might not be a perfect team, but they're probably good enough to not blow that lead to us.

The Tigers have a trend similar to the Sox of fading in August/September. There's no reason to think the Sox can't make up a 6 loss deficit. Whichever team fades less will probably come out on top between the two.

asindc
06-08-2011, 09:19 AM
I honestly have no idea where this team is headed. I could easily see them winning 85-89 games and winning the division and I could see them crashing back to Earth and struggling to win 70. These guys are all over the place, although, I have been impressed with how they've played the last few weeks.

If they do rebound and make the postseason, can we agree that Phil Humber is the Team MVP? Paulie may be the best player on the team, but Humber's basically held us together.

Humber and Lillibridge are essentially giving us what Peavy and Rios are getting paid to do.

Moses_Scurry
06-08-2011, 09:20 AM
I honestly have no idea where this team is headed. I could easily see them winning 85-89 games and winning the division and I could see them crashing back to Earth and struggling to win 70. These guys are all over the place, although, I have been impressed with how they've played the last few weeks.

If they do rebound and make the postseason, can we agree that Phil Humber is the Team MVP? Paulie may be the best player on the team, but Humber's basically held us together.

I would put Alexei in the discussion as well, since he was able to avoid his yearly cold start.

jdm2662
06-08-2011, 10:22 AM
This team MUST start winning division games before I get confident they can win the division. This is shades of the last two years where they did well against everyone else, but crapped out against the division. They used to own DET, but the tide has turned the last year and a half. I figured DET would eventually take over the divison, and it looks like they may happen by the end of the week. AT THE VERY LEAST, they need to be .500 against the key division opponents. Hell, had they been .500 against the Twins last year, they would've won the division (which makes their performance against them even more sickening).

tstrike2000
06-08-2011, 10:42 AM
Even with how bad the Sox have played in stretches, they're still in not too bad of a spot. Minnesota's dug themselves in awfully deep hole, so it'll be between the Sox and Detroit. It'll be interesting if the Sox can avoid the late season swoon that's kept them from the division title in the past. The division is there for the taking and for crying out loud...STOP LOSING DIVISION GAMES!

hawkjt
06-08-2011, 10:45 AM
The Tigers really can hit the ball,all thru their lineup,with the superstars like Miggy and Martinez as centerpieces. I was impressed with their bullpen...Al Albuqurque was throwing 98mph the other day.

Hoping their rotation melts down after Verlander,but Penny seems to have our number a bit. They are playing very well right now...going to Texas and winning two is surprising.

SoxSpeed22
06-08-2011, 10:55 AM
Until we start beating teams in our division, I'm not a believer yet. It's not coincidence that the last time we dominated against the division, we won it.
If we can't beat Detroit than forget it.

Jollyroger2
06-08-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm not convinced, not until they can start playing consistently well baseball over a period of weeks and months. Like I said after the Tiger series, this team will look awful, then good, then awful, then all over the place.

If the underachivers on this team finally start contributing as well, then that will be a good sign. I have no clue how long guys like Lillibridge and Humber are going to keep picking up the slack left by others.

sullythered
06-08-2011, 11:22 AM
The big fallacy here is that Dunn's "norm" can save us. His norm is 200 strikeouts and a .245 batting average. And after starting at .175, his norm is more likely .215. The ONLY chance is if Detroit winds up being not so good.

If, from this point forward, Dunn puts up a .900 OPS, it would be HUGE for us.

GoSox2K3
06-08-2011, 11:33 AM
I would put Alexei in the discussion as well, since he was able to avoid his yearly cold start.

You mean the guy who blew the game for us on Sunday for failing to turn a double play which led to a huge inning for Detroit?

There's a two game swing in the standings right there because of Alexei's poor fundamentals. Yes, it's great that he's not in a terrible slump. But it's not like his play has been impressive this year.

Hitmen77
06-08-2011, 11:40 AM
The difference is that the Sox trail the Tigers by 6 games in the loss column. Detroit might not be a perfect team, but they're probably good enough to not blow that lead to us.

Two things:

1) The Sox definitely can do something about that with the 12-13 games left to play against them; and

2) Detroit has some make up games to play later in the season, which could eventually end up being losses.

Every year Detroit is picked to do major damage in the AL Central, yet they are the only team (besides KC) in the division to not win it within the past decade. They will have to do more to make me believe before I consider a 6-loss deficit insurmountable.

"Probably" does not have the same meaning as "insurmountable".

chisoxfanatic
06-08-2011, 11:42 AM
You mean the guy who blew the game for us on Sunday for failing to turn a double play which led to a huge inning for Detroit?

There's a two game swing in the standings right there because of Alexei's poor fundamentals. Yes, it's great that he's not in a terrible slump. But it's not like his play has been impressive this year.
That's just 1 game. Alexei's been one of the least of our problems this season. There are plenty of under-performers who deserve much more scrutiny than TCM.

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Let's not go crazy. I am sorry, but I do not get excited beating the M's and with out up and down team, even less. Even, if we do good vs. the NL, just like last year, I do not think we are going to make the playoffs. We just dug ourselves too big of a whole and we got to jump not one, but TWO teams. Plus, the Tribe and the Tigers can beef up on the NL too.

asindc
06-08-2011, 11:53 AM
I wonder how many who are expressing doubt about the Sox' chance to win the division at this point would be expressing the same doubt about Detroit's chances to win it if the two teams swapped W-L records?

Hitmen77
06-08-2011, 12:05 PM
I wonder how many who are expressing doubt about the Sox' chance to win the division at this point would be expressing the same doubt about Detroit's chances to win it if the two teams swapped W-L records?

Of course I would think the Sox would be in a better position to win the Division if they were 6 games up (in the loss column) right now. Either way, I wouldn't consider Detroit, Cleveland, or the Sox being a lock right now.

Like I said PROBABLY (my word) is not the same as INSURMOUNTABLE (your word). It's true. I looked it up! I already replied to this. But if you want to keep twisting my comment into an absolute statement, have fun. I'm not wasting my time arguing this **** .:rolleyes:

asindc
06-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Of course I would think the Sox would be in a better position to win the Division if they were 6 games up (in the loss column) right now. Either way, I wouldn't consider Detroit, Cleveland, or the Sox being a lock right now.

Like I said PROBABLY (my word) is not the same as INSURMOUNTABLE (your word). It's true. I looked it up! I already replied to this. But if you want to keep twisting my comment into an absolute statement, have fun. I'm not wasting my time arguing this ****.:rolleyes:

My previous post was addressed to everyone who has expressed doubt. No twisting (or arguing) being done here.

Hitmen77
06-08-2011, 12:09 PM
My previous post was addressed to everyone who has expressed doubt. No twisting (or arguing) being done here.

Ok, cool. I thought it was still aimed specifically at my post.

I stand by my original comment. I'd feel more confident about the Sox if the the records were reversed. But either way, I wouldn't assume either team is going to coast to victory or that the other team should throw in the towel.

bluedemon45
06-08-2011, 12:14 PM
I wonder how many who are expressing doubt about the Sox' chance to win the division at this point would be expressing the same doubt about Detroit's chances to win it if the two teams swapped W-L records?

I'd still be confident if I was Detroit and they were below .500 currently. As its been mentioned above they have owned us the last year and half. And it seems to be a general consensus that the Indians aren't going to hold onto this lead and will fade off. So if its going to come down to the White Sox vs. the Tigers...I'd be confident as a Detroit fan.

They've won 8 of there last 9 with the only loss coming with Andy Oliver on the mound. They have a solid team.

kjhanson
06-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Well, we're only 364 days removed from the beginning of what turned out to be 26 wins in 31 games last year. We don't have the Hawks Cup win to motivate us this year, but we're playing .619 ball over the last 21.

palehozenychicty
06-08-2011, 12:23 PM
You mean the guy who blew the game for us on Sunday for failing to turn a double play which led to a huge inning for Detroit?

There's a two game swing in the standings right there because of Alexei's poor fundamentals. Yes, it's great that he's not in a terrible slump. But it's not like his play has been impressive this year.

Right. I can live with the inconsistent bat if he's playing well defensively. He's just been okay in the field. But he's not the biggest problem right now.

thomas35forever
06-08-2011, 12:35 PM
If this team wins consistently, I'll agree with you.

Oblong
06-08-2011, 12:45 PM
I could see Detroit or Chicago winning it but that's not because either team strikes me as anything special. I think it'll only take 86 wins. The Sox and Tigers have great starters. That alone can get you 86 wins.

Tigers are getting contributions from guys who've been crap all year. That's the difference in the games in Chicago and Texas.

asindc
06-08-2011, 01:05 PM
I could see Detroit or Chicago winning it but that's not because either team strikes me as anything special. I think it'll only take 86 wins. The Sox and Tigers have great starters. That alone can get you 86 wins.

Tigers are getting contributions from guys who've been crap all year. That's the difference in the games in Chicago and Texas.

I agree with this. Just like every other team in the AL, both the Sox and Detroit have obvious flaws and lots of games ahead of them.

Dibbs
06-08-2011, 01:24 PM
I certainly can see the not winning the division. However, I could also see them winning it. We have a chance no doubt.

kufram
06-08-2011, 01:55 PM
You mean the guy who blew the game for us on Sunday for failing to turn a double play which led to a huge inning for Detroit?

There's a two game swing in the standings right there because of Alexei's poor fundamentals. Yes, it's great that he's not in a terrible slump. But it's not like his play has been impressive this year.


"it's great that he's not in a terrible slump" I guess is code for the fact that he was on an absolute tear not very long ago to get his average up to .300 providing the offense for some wins. He won player of the week I believe not long ago and is as capable of making the dazzling play as he is guilty of the occasional mental error. Do I wish he was perfect?... yes. Are there any other teams that would like to have him?... I would bet there are. I hope we have him for a long time as he is only going to keep getting better.

Ramirez failing to turn the DP didn't help the other day but Peavy walking three and giving up a slam knowing he'd "felt" something had a little to do with the loss, didn't it?

Sox
06-08-2011, 06:25 PM
I wonder how many who are expressing doubt about the Sox' chance to win the division at this point would be expressing the same doubt about Detroit's chances to win it if the two teams swapped W-L records?


Good question...you make an excellent point and I think we all know the answer to that question.

kittle42
06-08-2011, 07:31 PM
They swept the Red Sox in Fenway didn't they?

After losing 3 horrible games to Toronto. Funny how wins make us forget losses and losses make us forget wins.

kittle42
06-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Humber and Lillibridge are essentially giving us what Peavy and Rios are getting paid to do.

And there's the rub...people are like "If Rios/Dunn/Peavy/Thornton return to normal..." Well, that could just as easily be accompanied by a Lillibridge/Humber return to normal, as well.

Dan H
06-09-2011, 04:13 AM
Right now Konerko and Quentin are carrying the offense. Others have to step up and this means Rios and Dunn have to turn their seasons around. Pierre just isn't doing it. He can't steal anymore and just doesn't get on enough. They need someone else to lead off but who what that be? I don't see this offense scaring anyone.

The team has its moments; it certainly isn't a bad club. Yet I am not getting the feeling that it is going to put it together and make a real run at the division. They will stay close, but my overall feeling about the White Sox is not good. They lose too many tight games and there is just something lacking here.

Parity is one thing the Sox have going for them. I really don't see any team in either league totally dominating things. Regardless, the club has to get to .500 before we can really consider serious about contending for anything, and it has been under .500 for almost the entire season so far.

Red Barchetta
06-09-2011, 09:46 AM
Right now Konerko and Quentin are carrying the offense. Others have to step up and this means Rios and Dunn have to turn their seasons around. Pierre just isn't doing it. He can't steal anymore and just doesn't get on enough. They need someone else to lead off but who what that be? I don't see this offense scaring anyone.

The team has its moments; it certainly isn't a bad club. Yet I am not getting the feeling that it is going to put it together and make a real run at the division. They will stay close, but my overall feeling about the White Sox is not good. They lose too many tight games and there is just something lacking here.

Parity is one thing the Sox have going for them. I really don't see any team in either league totally dominating things. Regardless, the club has to get to .500 before we can really consider serious about contending for anything, and it has been under .500 for almost the entire season so far.


I agree. The SOX would be near the top of their division if Dunn and Rios were playing the way they should. If they turn it around and assuming no one else starts tanking, the SOX should be able to fight their way back into the race. They were one win away against the Tigers from winning 3 straight series. It's a slow and frustrating climb back, however they need to get to .500 first. Cleveland is coming back to earth and the SOX need to figure out how to beat Detroit.

Pierre and the bullpen cost the SOX a good April and the lack of offense hurt them in May.

Jurr
06-09-2011, 12:55 PM
The Sox just need a bunch of National League games to get them going. Happens ALL THE TIME.

1989
06-09-2011, 02:49 PM
And there's the rub...people are like "If Rios/Dunn/Peavy/Thornton return to normal..." Well, that could just as easily be accompanied by a Lillibridge/Humber return to normal, as well.

Which would still immensely benefit the Sox.

LITTLE NELL
06-09-2011, 03:40 PM
It comes down to Dunn and Rios, if they start to hit we will win the division. If they continue their season long slump we will end up with around 82 wins.

JermaineDye05
06-09-2011, 03:44 PM
If they can't beat teams other than the Indians in their own division, they're not going anywhere.

TheVulture
06-12-2011, 09:53 PM
I'm not ready to believe the Sox will win the division unless they win more games than the other teams.

TomBradley72
06-13-2011, 08:14 AM
I'm very happy we've climbed back into the race- but the numbers tell me to be cautiously optimistic:


We have the 8th best record in the AL (tied w/Toronto)
We're still 6 out in the loss column from 1st, only 4 ahead in the loss column vs. Minnesota
Without alot of gift runs from Oakland we could have easily lost the series.
We've had a really nice run since May 7th overall- but I still don't see real momentum with this team- alot of guys struggling in June (Beckham, Pierre, Lillibridge and Dunn are hitting <.235).

I think the Minnesota series (again) is a very big deal- need 2/3 or we start to slide back again.

MARTINMVP
06-13-2011, 09:05 AM
Before I even begin to believe that the Sox could win the division, there are two things that must happen first...

First the Sox must get over .500 and stay above.

They must also do well against the Twins this week. Not that doing well against the Twins this week defines the rest of the season, but psychologically, it would be a real confidence booster for me.

I'll add a third condition, which is probably just as important.... the Sox need to be able to beat Detroit as well. The Tigers, it seems, has become our boogeyman team as of late. We need to beat teams in our own division.

Moses_Scurry
06-13-2011, 09:44 AM
Taking 2/3 or better from the Twins would go a very long way towards making me believe it. It would be very nice to go into interleague play nipping on the Tigers'/Indians' heels.

Crooked Number
06-13-2011, 11:49 AM
I'm very happy we've climbed back into the race- but the numbers tell me to be cautiously optimistic:


We have the 8th best record in the AL (tied w/Toronto)
We're still 6 out in the loss column from 1st, only 4 ahead in the loss column vs. Minnesota
Without alot of gift runs from Oakland we could have easily lost the series.

We've had a really nice run since May 7th overall- but I still don't see real momentum with this team- alot of guys struggling in June (Beckham, Pierre, Lillibridge and Dunn are hitting <.235).

I think the Minnesota series (again) is a very big deal- need 2/3 or we start to slide back again.


This is the litmus test. If we go up there and take two of three, it will do wonders for this club. If we flounder away and blow games in the 9th, and melt because of the "twins-ish" crap we have seen the past few years, well it very well could be a back breaker. I am really hoping there is no Torii Hunter running over our catcher type bs play that kills the season. Can a Sox team finally rise to the occasion and get it done? That is the question. 3.5 out, break coming up, golden opportunity within the division right here, right now. It will make the next Detroit series really interesting if the Sox can get this done. I am excited to watch these next three games.

Golden Sox
06-13-2011, 03:03 PM
The good guys in black will win 93 games this year and will be in the playoffs. The White Sox are coming, tra la, tra la.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2011, 03:25 PM
To win the division you have to beat the teams in your division. The Sox are being owned by Detroit and Minnesota...unless that changes, the Sox might get a winning record when all is said and done but you can forget about the post season.

We'll see what happens starting Tuesday night.

My guess is that the Twins are licking their chops right now the way they are playing and the way the schedule played out this week. They won't say anything publicly (and they shouldn't) but they probably feel that they are already in the Sox organization's heads from the broadcasters on down, they can really **** with them this week... I'd really like to see the Sox shut them up but considering they haven't won an individual series from them either there or in Chicago since May 2009, it's a tall order.

Lip

Hitmen77
06-13-2011, 03:34 PM
If they can't beat teams other than the Indians in their own division, they're not going anywhere.

Yep, while I have been enjoying the Sox rebound over the last month or so, I'm waiting for them to actually win a series vs. Minnesota (who is not all that far behind us) or Detroit before I can get too excited about this team.

Foulke You
06-13-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm not ready to believe the Sox will win the division unless they win more games than the other teams.
http://www.rlrassociates.net/RLR/Images/Content/McCarver,_Tim.jpg
"That is some spot on analysis!"

Foulke You
06-13-2011, 04:42 PM
they haven't won an individual series from them either there or in Chicago since May 2009
My goodness...has it been that long??! Wow. I think I'd fall over if we went up there and swept their asses right out of Target Field like we should.

Sunnydre
06-13-2011, 09:28 PM
2/3 of against the twins? what the heck are you guys talking about.

we need to win all three. the twins suck this year...sox need to sweep them if they want me to put the other foot in.

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2011, 02:02 AM
2/3 of against the twins? what the heck are you guys talking about.

we need to win all three. the twins suck this year...sox need to sweep them if they want me to put the other foot in.The Twins are 9-2 in their last 11 games.

By the way:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpiNrPd7j6ItQ-399Gn2buyfmkz5N_00YVXG4sG2KFdH8CzQVo

doublem23
06-14-2011, 07:24 AM
sox need to sweep them if they want me to put the other foot in.

And I'm sure that's what they're worried about.

Jurr
06-14-2011, 10:29 AM
The Sox just need to keep winning series, and all will be good. At some point, a 7-8 game winning streak must come. This pitching is too strong, and the hitting has to come around at some point.