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DirtySox
06-05-2011, 03:11 PM
whitesox Chicago White Sox
Jake Peavy left the #WhiteSox game with a strained right groin. He'll be re-evaluated tomorrow.
14 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

JermaineDye05
06-05-2011, 03:12 PM
As long as it's not his arm.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 03:17 PM
Any idea on which pitch or play the strain happened?

sox1970
06-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Any idea on which pitch or play the strain happened?

The only play I remember was when the hitter showed bunt, and Peavy bounced off the mound real quick, but I'm not sure if that did it.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2011, 04:21 PM
When it rains, it pours.

This guy just can't stay healthy. He's the Jim McMahon of baseball.

Lip

Soxfest
06-05-2011, 04:48 PM
Same old blues again.

Jollyroger2
06-05-2011, 04:50 PM
He was damaged goods when the Sox got him and nothing has changed. Useless, like half the team.

NLaloosh
06-05-2011, 04:59 PM
When it rains, it pours.

This guy just can't stay healthy. He's the Jim McMahon of baseball.

Lip

I can't remember where I've heard this before. Oh, now I remember! It was me in 2009 when the Sox were trying to trade for him.

But, then everything worked out for the best because Peavy vetoed the trade. Whew, we dodged that bullet!

NLaloosh
06-05-2011, 05:02 PM
I truly believe that since then end of the 2007 season until now the average Sox fan would have done a better job as GM than Kenny Williams.

thomas35forever
06-05-2011, 05:05 PM
I truly believe that since then end of the 2007 season until now the average Sox fan would have done a better job as GM than Kenny Williams.
Wow. I'm glad you're not running this team.

kittle42
06-05-2011, 05:18 PM
I truly believe that since then end of the 2007 season until now the average Sox fan would have done a better job as GM than Kenny Williams.

Well, that is certainly not the case. Luckily, there is no need for such hyperbole. Williams should not be held to the standard of what a regular fan would do, but rather to the standard of an average general manager. He is quite arguably well below that standard.

DirtySox
06-05-2011, 05:31 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1152266959/dvdphoto2_normal.JPG
davandyck (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck) Dave van Dyck by MDGonzales
Peavy said he most likely will miss next start, which makes DL a possibility. Six-man rotation may be 5-man again.
16 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck/status/77498616591302658) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

kittle42
06-05-2011, 05:35 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1152266959/dvdphoto2_normal.JPG
davandyck (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck) Dave van Dyck by MDGonzales
Peavy said he most likely will miss next start, which makes DL a possibility. Six-man rotation may be 5-man again.
16 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck/status/77498616591302658) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

Sky blue. Sun rises in the east. Peavy continues to be a waste of money.

Frontman
06-05-2011, 05:37 PM
I can't remember where I've heard this before. Oh, now I remember! It was me in 2009 when the Sox were trying to trade for him.

But, then everything worked out for the best because Peavy vetoed the trade. Whew, we dodged that bullet!

"All in? All in means you celebrate your own enjoyment at your favorite team failing!"

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. Just because you thought Peavy was a bad idea doesn't mean its a GOOD thing.

DirtySox
06-05-2011, 05:41 PM
Apparently this started in Boston. Surprised?


http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1258220891/CIMG1420_-_Copy_normal.JPG
CSNChi_Beatnik (http://twitter.com/#%21/CSNChi_Beatnik) Brett Ballantini
Pain started in Boston but he felt OK today until breaking to first base today. Then all hell broke loose and he lost sense of control.
28 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/CSNChi_Beatnik/status/77497829861498880) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

NLaloosh
06-05-2011, 05:53 PM
Well, that is certainly not the case. Luckily, there is no need for such hyperbole. Williams should not be held to the standard of what a regular fan would do, but rather to the standard of an average general manager. He is quite arguably well below that standard.


He's been absolutely horrible since the end of 2007. Almost every major move was wrong and turned out bad. He had a lot of good years prior to that.

kittle42
06-05-2011, 05:55 PM
He's been absolutely horrible since the end of 2007. Almost every major move was wrong and turned out bad. He had a lot of good years prior to that.

No disagreement here.

Hitmen77
06-05-2011, 05:58 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1152266959/dvdphoto2_normal.JPG
davandyck (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck) Dave van Dyck by MDGonzales
Peavy said he most likely will miss next start, which makes DL a possibility. Six-man rotation may be 5-man again.
16 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/davandyck/status/77498616591302658) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

The Sox are now entering what should be the soft part of their schedule and have 5 other capable starters. If all this means is that Peavy will miss 1 or 2 starts, that'll be pretty low on the Sox list of reasons they don't succeed this year.

Apparently this started in Boston. Surprised?

Does this mean this is another case of Peavy not telling his coaches and manager when he's injured?

kittle42
06-05-2011, 06:13 PM
The Sox are now entering what should be the soft part of their schedule

Are they playing a team that's a clone of themselves? Because that would definitely be the soft part of the schedule.

doublem23
06-05-2011, 07:08 PM
Are they playing a team that's a clone of themselves? Because that would definitely be the soft part of the schedule.

Well, the Cubs are right around the corner. They're basically overpaid and horse****.

Brian26
06-05-2011, 07:17 PM
The only play I remember was when the hitter showed bunt, and Peavy bounced off the mound real quick, but I'm not sure if that did it.

I don't remember which play it was, but I saw Peavy do a hop-skip and a quick limp, and my heart sank for a moment. But, then he looked fine. I believe it was a foul grounder to the right side, and Peavy started running over to cover first base.

SI1020
06-05-2011, 07:28 PM
Sometimes when a pitcher suffers a serious injury he will makes changes, even subtle ones that affect his mechanics and make it likely another different type of injury will result. Just think of what you could do with all the money wasted on Peavy, Rios and Dunn.

Zisk77
06-05-2011, 07:33 PM
He's been absolutely horrible since the end of 2007. Almost every major move was wrong and turned out bad. He had a lot of good years prior to that.

Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

GlassSox
06-05-2011, 07:41 PM
If the injury is the reason for the 6 runs and he didn't tell anyone, then he should be assigned to be Adam Done's personal bat boy and Rios' double bubble manager.

balke
06-05-2011, 07:43 PM
Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

Pretty much noone that the Sox couldn't reacquire if they truly wanted to. I liked Hudson - but also like Edwin Jackson. Money hasn't been an issue really that has road blocked these Sox. So far money has made them acquire some of the worst performing players so paying Jackson doesn't bother me at all.

Irishsox1
06-05-2011, 07:45 PM
Peavy will go on the DL, come off, pitch well twice then tear something and be gone for the rest of the year.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 08:05 PM
If he has to miss a few starts, this is the "best" time to do it. We have several off days coming up, and we're about to play NL teams.

canOcorn
06-05-2011, 08:14 PM
Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

I'd rather have Swisher than the flaming pile of poo we got back from the Yankees. And to make things worse, I'd rather have Gio, DLS and Sweeney that the flaming pile of poo we got in return.

DickAllen72
06-05-2011, 08:25 PM
So now it's being reported that Peavy said he felt a "grabbing sensation" and "tried to quit using my leg." He said after that he couldn't throw the ball where he wanted it, resulting in him giving up six runs in the inning.

Of course he didn't say anything about it before it was too late. They lost the game because of him not promptly admitting he was injured.

The Sox would have been better off without Jake Peavy.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0606-white-sox-tigers-chicago-20110605,0,1007957.story

SOXSINCE'70
06-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Sky blue. Sun rises in the east. Peavy continues to be a waste of money.

And Adam Dunn strikes out swinging or looking. :angry:

GlassSox
06-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Just who in the **** does this selfish bastard think he is? He's injured so his macho comes out again and he continues to pitch and gives up a 6 run inning?

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 08:37 PM
I'd rather have Swisher than the flaming pile of poo we got back from the Yankees. And to make things worse, I'd rather have Gio, DLS and Sweeney that the flaming pile of poo we got in return.

I agree. We got hosed on both deals. But I think if the Sox had had Gio in 2010, KW would not have dealt Hudson for Jackson, so our 2011 rotation would be:

Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Gio, Humber

Not paying Jackson's salary would have allowed KW to re-sign Putz and another strong reliever in addition to Crain and Ohman, and punt Pena. So our bullpen would be:

Santos, Putz, Crain, Thornton, Ohman, reliever better than Pena

Also, we'd have minor league depth developing with Hudson, DLS and Sale.

tacosalbarojas
06-05-2011, 08:48 PM
Sad thing is I said when they pulled him - he must be hurt, I don't think they'd pull him with 5 innings to cover...sure enough...damnit.

HaroMaster87
06-05-2011, 08:55 PM
Just who in the **** does this selfish bastard think he is? He's injured so his macho comes out again and he continues to pitch and gives up a 6 run inning?

^^THIS^^

Thats exactly my reaction to this...im SO sick of this idiots tough guy routine that it makes me wanna puke...way to screw your team you idiot!!! I KNEW he was hurt when he couldnt find the plate. He had ONE walk in his last 3 starts...TOTAL. And he walks 3 in one inning? Unbelievable this guy...

BringHomeDaBacon
06-05-2011, 08:58 PM
I just heard his post-game interview and it really pisses me off. He was certain to make sure that everyone knows that the six runs were due to injury and that he couldn't throw the ball where he wanted to. If that's the case then he should have gotten himself the hell out of the game. I'm not interested in hearing excuses after a six run inning.

HaroMaster87
06-05-2011, 08:58 PM
Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?


i bet ya we could make an even longer list of bad players hes acquired, including the 40.5 million dollars worth of horse **** wrapped up in Rios, Dunn and Peavy.

Thats a lot of bad paper

kittle42
06-05-2011, 08:59 PM
im SO sick of this idiots tough guy routine that it makes me wanna puke...way to screw your team you idiot!!! I KNEW he was hurt when he couldnt find the plate. He had ONE walk in his last 3 starts...TOTAL. And he walks 3 in one inning? Unbelievable this guy...

There is a not-so-small group of people here who think that "guts" are all you need! Go, Peavy!

DirtySox
06-05-2011, 09:13 PM
There is a not-so-small group of people here who think that "guts" are all you need! Go, Peavy!

Is that the same group that thinks if we played the starters more in spring training we would be undefeated?

Lip Man 1
06-05-2011, 09:21 PM
Dirty:

No there's a difference between playing hard and playing hurt. Between being "baseball" smart and "baseball" stupid, between knowing how to do things like bunt, execute the hit and run, throw to the correct base, keep opposing base runners close and realizing the season starts in April not June and your ____ (pick a year, any year) Chicago White Sox.

Peavy didn't show guts out there on the mound when he knew he couldn't accurately throw the ball where he needed to.

Showing guts is leadership, knowing the little things, helping teammates and if needed calling out players who aren't trying or putting the work in.

Big difference.

Oh by the way, just completed Thursday an interview with a former Sox player who has some great examples of what real vocal leadership is on a team because he actually saw it when he was with the Sox.

Lip

DirtySox
06-05-2011, 09:29 PM
Dirty:

No there's a difference between playing hard and playing hurt. Between being "baseball" smart and "baseball" stupid, between knowing how to do things like bunt, execute the hit and run, throw to the correct base, keep opposing base runners close and realizing the season starts in April not June and your ____ (pick a year, any year) Chicago White Sox.

Peavy didn't show guts out there on the mound when he knew he couldn't accurately throw the ball where he needed to.

Showing guts is leadership, knowing the little things, helping teammates and if needed calling out players who aren't trying or putting the work in.

Big difference.

Oh by the way, just completed Thursday an interview with a former Sox player who has some great examples of what real vocal leadership is on a team because he actually saw it when he was with the Sox.

Lip

Indeed. Forgive me, I was feeling snarky. :smile:

I'm pretty sick of Jake Peavy's hero act which keeps leading to preventable injuries. The glass bulldog needs some common sense. Selfish and stupid.

doublem23
06-05-2011, 09:44 PM
Is that the same group that thinks if we played the starters more in spring training we would be undefeated?

They overlap pretty heavily.

RockJock07
06-05-2011, 09:56 PM
I truly believe that since then end of the 2007 season until now the average Sox fan would have done a better job as GM than Kenny Williams.

Huh? I'll give you a couple of moves here and there but for the most part I think Kenny has done a pretty good job.

Please enlighten me as to whom you would have gotten or done instead of the moves that were actually made.

RockJock07
06-05-2011, 10:12 PM
i bet ya we could make an even longer list of bad players hes acquired, including the 40.5 million dollars worth of horse **** wrapped up in Rios, Dunn and Peavy.

Thats a lot of bad paper


Who ****ing cares about the money, it's not your money.

Out of those 3 players I can remember WSI being pretty happy with the Dunn signing as well as the Peavy deal considering what KW gave up.

Dunn had always been healthy and produced nearly everywhere he had played. Peavy was a ****ing CY Young award winner and was sought after by many teams.

Rios was a little more iffy, he's wildly inconsistant but he still has time left on his deal.

Let me also agree with some of the post about Peavy not taking himself out of games when he's hurt, that's on no one else but him and it's really a bush league move to try to "tough" it out.

My point is hindsight is 20/20, KW is the same guy who didn't offer TCQ a massive deal after his MVP type season.

JB98
06-05-2011, 10:31 PM
When an athlete says, "I'm hurt. I can't go," I can live with that. Unlike a lot of people in Chicago, I didn't criticize Jay Cutler when the Bears lost to the Packers. If you can't play effectively, then don't ****ing play.

It really irritates me when a guy tries to "tough it out," blows the game, then blames an injury for his poor performance afterwards.

Jake, your teammates are on the varsity, too. If you can't pitch effectively, let Ozzie know and he'll put a healthy guy out there. It's really that simple.

GlassSox
06-05-2011, 10:42 PM
When an athlete says, "I'm hurt. I can't go," I can live with that. Unlike a lot of people in Chicago, I didn't criticize Jay Cutler when the Bears lost to the Packers. If you can't play effectively, then don't ****ing play.

It really irritates me when a guy tries to "tough it out," blows the game, then blames an injury for his poor performance afterwards.

Jake, your teammates are on the varsity, too. If you can't pitch effectively, let Ozzie know and he'll put a healthy guy out there. It's really that simple.

Spot on :thumbsup:

Falstaff
06-05-2011, 11:58 PM
Peavy will go on the DL, come off, pitch well twice then tear something and be gone for the rest of the year.
Thats why maybe a good idear to use him for middle relief, ie 3 innings max
a few times a week. We do have 5 legit starters. Everyone needs to fit into the best role for 2011 TEAM to win games. Think about it.

Falstaff
06-06-2011, 12:00 AM
Just who in the **** does this selfish bastard think he is? He's injured so his macho comes out again and he continues to pitch and gives up a 6 run inning?
I agree totally. The Peav needs to show some humility and contribute in a
sustainable and valuable way, ie, middle relief.

TDog
06-06-2011, 12:38 AM
When an athlete says, "I'm hurt. I can't go," I can live with that. Unlike a lot of people in Chicago, I didn't criticize Jay Cutler when the Bears lost to the Packers. If you can't play effectively, then don't ****ing play.

It really irritates me when a guy tries to "tough it out," blows the game, then blames an injury for his poor performance afterwards.

Jake, your teammates are on the varsity, too. If you can't pitch effectively, let Ozzie know and he'll put a healthy guy out there. It's really that simple.

I'm not sure what the circumstances were in your football reference, but I have no doubt that if Peavy had come out before giving up the six runs, claiming to have a groin injury, Sox fans would have criticized him for being soft and would have criticized Guillen for putting up with it. The Sox bullpen isn't built to come into the game so early.

I agree with you, though.

cards press box
06-06-2011, 02:00 AM
Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

I agree with all of the above and would add the following:

Phil Humber
Gordon Beckham (draft)
Brent Morel (draft)

and going back to the 2006 offseason

John Danks
Gavin Floyd

I agree with you about Dunn and Rios, too. Odds are that both revert to their career norms by the end of this year.

As for Peavy, the Sox have won 4 of his 5 starts this year and probably would have won the 5th if he hadn't gotten hurt today. And, seriously, the pulled groin has nothing to do with the lat muscle injury from last year. Peavy is going to have a fine year for the Sox. I see him going something like 12-3 or 14-5 for the year. Just wait and see.

I would like to have Hudson back but what if KW can flip Edwin Jackson for a legitimate catching prospect and maybe bullpen help? I am guessing that will happen after Peavy comes back and the most likely trade partner, I suspect, is the Yankees.

gobears1987
06-06-2011, 05:21 AM
Just who in the **** does this selfish bastard think he is? He's injured so his macho comes out again and he continues to pitch and gives up a 6 run inning?

I'm not specifically calling you out because I don't recall what you said about the Jay Cutler incident, but I laugh when I hear callers on 670 saying what you said because they are the same dopes who complained about Jay Cutler not being tough enough to play.

harwar
06-06-2011, 08:43 AM
when the Sox acquired Peavy, the first thing they did was change his delivery to stave off an injury .. he was totally ineffective and got lit-up .. they changed it back to they way it was initially and he was lights out but became a ticking bomb .. considering what we gave up ,i think trading for him was a good gamble that just didn't pay off

JC456
06-06-2011, 08:51 AM
Seems like a phantom injury to me. Just saying I watched the fourth inning and I saw nothing in his delivery to suggest he was hurting other than his pride.

GoSox2K3
06-06-2011, 08:55 AM
I'm not sure what the circumstances were in your football reference, but I have no doubt that if Peavy had come out before giving up the six runs, claiming to have a groin injury, Sox fans would have criticized him for being soft and would have criticized Guillen for putting up with it. The Sox bullpen isn't built to come into the game so early.

I agree with you, though.

:bs: Show me where Sox fans have criticized Ozzie for taking out or "putting up with" an injured player.

Surprise, surprise, yet another blanket statement to show that "TDog is smarter than the rest of WSI" :rolleyes:

GoSox2K3
06-06-2011, 09:00 AM
Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

I agree with all of the above and would add the following:

Phil Humber
Gordon Beckham (draft)
Brent Morel (draft)

and going back to the 2006 offseason

John Danks
Gavin Floyd

I agree with you about Dunn and Rios, too. Odds are that both revert to their career norms by the end of this year.

As for Peavy, the Sox have won 4 of his 5 starts this year and probably would have won the 5th if he hadn't gotten hurt today. And, seriously, the pulled groin has nothing to do with the lat muscle injury from last year. Peavy is going to have a fine year for the Sox. I see him going something like 12-3 or 14-5 for the year. Just wait and see.

I would like to have Hudson back but what if KW can flip Edwin Jackson for a legitimate catching prospect and maybe bullpen help? I am guessing that will happen after Peavy comes back and the most likely trade partner, I suspect, is the Yankees.

No love for Carlos Quentin? :dunno:

That being said, I agree that Kenny's moves haven't been so great overall during this time. We have an incredible amount of money committed to Dunn, Rios, and Peavy. Teahen is locked up through 2012 and will earn $5M next year.

One thing that kills us is the lousy state of our farm system. Unless you're the Yankees or BoSox, you can only go so far with throwing a ton of money at high priced veterans.

cards press box
06-06-2011, 09:05 AM
No love for Carlos Quentin? :dunno:

That being said, I agree that Kenny's moves haven't been so great overall during this time. We have an incredible amount of money committed to Dunn, Rios, and Peavy. Teahen is locked up through 2012 and will earn $5M next year.

One thing that kills us is the lousy state of our farm system. Unless you're the Yankees or BoSox, you can only go so far with throwing a ton of money at high priced veterans.

Absolutely right. Quentin was a steal.

asindc
06-06-2011, 09:18 AM
When an athlete says, "I'm hurt. I can't go," I can live with that. Unlike a lot of people in Chicago, I didn't criticize Jay Cutler when the Bears lost to the Packers. If you can't play effectively, then don't ****ing play.

It really irritates me when a guy tries to "tough it out," blows the game, then blames an injury for his poor performance afterwards.

Jake, your teammates are on the varsity, too. If you can't pitch effectively, let Ozzie know and he'll put a healthy guy out there. It's really that simple.

I approve of this post.:thumbsup:

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 09:32 AM
Yes acquiring the following really sucked:

Alexei Ramirez
Chris Sale
Dayen Viciedo
J.J. Putz
Jesse Crain
Sergio Santos
Omar Vizquel
Alex Rios (One good one not so good so far year)
Juan Pierre
Brent Lillibridge
re-signing the capt.


Adam Dunn may still turn out ok.
So might Peavey. Ironic, I was one of the few dissenting voices on here (I predicted TOMMY JOHN Surgery) when we acquired him, yet most now criticize Kenny for that gamble.

Who have we lost that we want back?
Hudson?

That's not an impressive list.

asindc
06-06-2011, 09:55 AM
That's not an impressive list.

Anyone in the division have a more impressive list?

kittle42
06-06-2011, 10:18 AM
Anyone in the division have a more impressive list?

The division is not our only competition, and I am sick of the damn Sox only fielding a team that they think will help them compete in what has generally (generally, mind you, I know there have been exceptions) been a weaker division. Let's not as fans fall into the same skewed mindset.

asindc
06-06-2011, 10:19 AM
The division is not our only competition, and I am sick of the damn Sox only fielding a team that they think will help them compete in what has generally (generally, mind you, I know there have been exceptions) been a weaker division. Let's not as fans fall into the same skewed mindset.

Fair enough. Which AL teams have a more impressive acquisition list over the same time period?

doublem23
06-06-2011, 10:21 AM
The division is not our only competition, and I am sick of the damn Sox only fielding a team that they think will help them compete in what has generally (generally, mind you, I know there have been exceptions) been a weaker division. Let's not as fans fall into the same skewed mindset.

Even though I half agree with you (the other half feels that all you can really, truly build to win is a division champ, after that, baseball is just too chaotic in short bursts in the postseason, as evidence by our horse**** team sweeping the Red Sox at Fenway last week) at any rate, all of those guys but 1 were acquired after our last playoff appearance, so no matter how good or bad they may look on paper, that group has essentially accomplished nothing.

Harry Chappas
06-06-2011, 10:24 AM
Now the fickle fans are piling on KW for Adam Dunn's miserable season? Good god, who in the WORLD could have predicted he'd be hitting .180 and trailing Lilibeast in HRs in June? The answer is no one. He isn't over-the-hill, injury prone, or shown a history of inconsistency. In fact, he's the opposite of those things.

I guess you can criticize KW for Peavy since he was injured when we traded for him (although the injury was unrelated) and maybe Rios but to include Adam Dunn is beyond stupid.

kittle42
06-06-2011, 10:54 AM
Now the fickle fans are piling on KW for Adam Dunn's miserable season? Good god, who in the WORLD could have predicted he'd be hitting .180 and trailing Lilibeast in HRs in June? The answer is no one. He isn't over-the-hill, injury prone, or shown a history of inconsistency. In fact, he's the opposite of those things.

I guess you can criticize KW for Peavy since he was injured when we traded for him (although the injury was unrelated) and maybe Rios but to include Adam Dunn is beyond stupid.

The anti-Dunn crowd, for the most part and, I guess, to their credit, criticized the move when it was made, so their chirping isn't second-guessing. That aside, I agree with you.

Noneck
06-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Now the fickle fans are piling on KW for Adam Dunn's miserable season? Good god, who in the WORLD could have predicted he'd be hitting .180 and trailing Lilibeast in HRs in June? The answer is no one. He isn't over-the-hill, injury prone, or shown a history of inconsistency. In fact, he's the opposite of those things.




I agree, NO ONE could have predicted the type of year Dunn is having. Someone could have wanted a different type of player instead of Dunn or that Dunn may not live up to his career numbers. If Dunn only had half as good as his career numbers now I dont think you would see the lynch mob out there for him. He has been terrible but to blame Williams for him being as bad as he is, is ridiculous.

Harry Chappas
06-06-2011, 11:08 AM
Fair enough. Which AL teams have a more impressive acquisition list over the same time period?

Here are just a few recent acquisitions made by other AL teams...

Red Sox - Carl Crawford (.248/5 HRs; 7 years/$142 million)
Red Sox - Bobby Jenks (6.57 ERA $12 million)
Red Sox - Marco Scutaro (.235 1 HR, 2 years/$12.5 million)
Tigers - Magglio Ordonez (.172/1 HR; 1 year/$10 million)
Yankees - Rafael Soriano (5.4 ERA, 1.73 WHIP 3-years/$35 million)
Twins - Carl Pavano (4.83 ERA, 3-5, 2 years/$16.5 million)
Mariners - Chone Figgins (.186/1 HR 4 years/$36 million)

Some of you are a little myopic. Virtually every team in the league has some "bad paper" and as much as we all like to get worked up about Mark Teahen's deal, it's hardly noteworthy when you look around the league.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Now the fickle fans are piling on KW for Adam Dunn's miserable season? Good god, who in the WORLD could have predicted he'd be hitting .180 and trailing Lilibeast in HRs in June? The answer is no one. He isn't over-the-hill, injury prone, or shown a history of inconsistency. In fact, he's the opposite of those things.

I guess you can criticize KW for Peavy since he was injured when we traded for him (although the injury was unrelated) and maybe Rios but to include Adam Dunn is beyond stupid.

Due its length and value, the contract was a questionable when signed. The slow start raises the additional concern that the final years of the contract maybe even worse than were initially expected.

Harry Chappas
06-06-2011, 01:05 PM
Due its length and value, the contract was a questionable when signed. The slow start raises the additional concern that the final years of the contract maybe even worse than were initially expected.

Dunn wasn't signing for less than 4 years. If he were even close to his career average power numbers, no one would be sweating the $15m or whatever he's being paid.

Like I pointed out previously, the BoSox gave Crawford a 7-year deal and it hasn't looked too good thus far either.

I don't think Boston or the White Sox were dumb when they signed their big free agents. It's hard to predict how a player responds and nothing in Dunn's resume raised any red flags other than the fact he was switching leagues. As for his Rob Deere like strike out totals, they'd easily be overlooked if he drove in 110 and if guys like Rios weren't equally horrible.

TheOldRoman
06-06-2011, 01:08 PM
Due its length and value, the contract was a questionable when signed.Length? He was signed for four years. You can't get anything over a marginal free agent to agree to less than four years. It isn't like they gave a 7 year deal to someone whose legs is one of his greatest attributes (Alfonso Soriano, Carl Crawford). And $14 million a year is not a giant amount in the scheme of things. The Sox identified a need in left handed power and signed the best hitter available. The best hitter available normally gets contracts much bigger than 4/$56 mil.

The slow start raises the additional concern that the final years of the contract maybe even worse than were initially expected.It shouldn't. Dunn is fitting right in. The only things distinguishing Dunn from the rest of these underachievers is 1) it's his first year here, and 2) he has a big contract. I don't know how anyone who has watched the Greg Walker era of White Sox baseball can be amazed at Dunn's start, considering 7 or 8 position players have a horrible first month every season. Dunn will pick it up in the second half of the season. He will do much better next year, but he will still be prone to month-long slumps because that what the White Sox do best.

SI1020
06-06-2011, 01:18 PM
I wish I could believe those of you that say Dunn will rebound to his normal self.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
Dunn wasn't signing for less than 4 years. If he were even close to his career average power numbers, no one would be sweating the $15m or whatever he's being paid.

Like I pointed out previously, the BoSox gave Crawford a 7-year deal and it hasn't looked too good thus far either.

I don't think Boston or the White Sox were dumb when they signed their big free agents. It's hard to predict how a player responds and nothing in Dunn's resume raised any red flags other than the fact he was switching leagues. As for his Rob Deere like strike out totals, they'd easily be overlooked if he drove in 110 and if guys like Rios weren't equally horrible.

Who else was offering Dunn anything close to that? The market for DH services did not warrant committing $30 million for Dunn's age 33 and 34 seasons.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Length? He was signed for four years. You can't get anything over a marginal free agent to agree to less than four years. It isn't like they gave a 7 year deal to someone whose legs is one of his greatest attributes (Alfonso Soriano, Carl Crawford). And $14 million a year is not a giant amount in the scheme of things. The Sox identified a need in left handed power and signed the best hitter available. The best hitter available normally gets contracts much bigger than 4/$56 mil.

It shouldn't. Dunn is fitting right in. The only things distinguishing Dunn from the rest of these underachievers is 1) it's his first year here, and 2) he has a big contract. I don't know how anyone who has watched the Greg Walker era of White Sox baseball can be amazed at Dunn's start, considering 7 or 8 position players have a horrible first month every season. Dunn will pick it up in the second half of the season. He will do much better next year, but he will still be prone to month-long slumps because that what the White Sox do best.

So Dunn's deal is a good one because you inappropriately lumped in Carl Crawford with Alfonso Soriano?

Considering what you can get with $14mil a year, you're wrong it's a huge deal.

TDog
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
:bs: Show me where Sox fans have criticized Ozzie for taking out or "putting up with" an injured player.

Surprise, surprise, yet another blanket statement to show that "TDog is smarter than the rest of WSI" :rolleyes:

Either you misunderstood my post, or this is a personal attack.

I was responding to someone who pointed out that in a football game, fans were upset that a player said he couldn't continue. I'm guessing the Bears lost the game, or the fans wouldn't be complaining.

I was agreeing that this is the nature of sports fans. If something goes wrong people are going to complain about things they don't totally understand. If Peavy comes out of the game, isn't limping, says he could have gone out there for another inning and the Sox lose, there will be people complaining. This was about as innocuous a statement as I could have made. It is probably a tautology.

It's possible you're right. If the bullpen comes in and gives up six instead of Peavy, and cameras catch Peavy in the dugout visibly upset about coming out of the game, maybe support swells around Guillen.

Probably not. Last year there were a couple of times when Peavy was upset about being taken out of games, and I didn't see majority support for Guillen then. Any managerial move is a bad move if it goes wrong.

I enjoy baseball discussions. I respect the views of a lot of people I sometimes disagree with. I know people I sometimes disagree with respect my perspective. The tone of your post makes it difficult to respect yours.

voodoochile
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Who else was offering Dunn anything close to that? The market for DH services did not warrant committing $30 million for Dunn's age 33 and 34 seasons.

Yeah, it kind of did because to get his age 31-32 seasons you had to pay for the next two also.

In addition, a baseball player's prime years are 27-33 generally, so it's not like Dunn is going to fall off a cliff those two years and should hit close to his career averages for both.

Finally, if he wasn't a DH here, he'd be a 1B somewhere. His bat is good enough where any minor loss of defense at 1B (the least important defensive position on the field by a wide margin) wouldn't even factor in.

balke
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
So Dunn's deal is a good one because you inappropriately lumped in Carl Crawford with Alfonso Soriano?

Considering what you can get with $14mil a year, you're wrong it's a huge deal.

What is that exactly that you get for 14 mil? Dunn has made 12-13 mil 3 of the last 4 seasons and is a power lefty with 40 hr power and no injury history. Torii Hunter got 18 mil a year as a free agent - what does 14 mil get you in the mlb? Who's that 2nd option they overlooked at dh that was so much better to fill the LH power DH role they and everyone analyst and wsi poster said the Sox needed this offseason?

Dunn was slightly overpaid - the Sox have to do that from time to time because there are few players with lifelong dreams of playing here. And he specifically fought/fights the notion that he's a DH - so here' an extra 4 million. Noone would say a word if he had his usual 14+ homeruns right now.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
Yeah, it kind of did because to get his age 31-32 seasons you had to pay for the next two also.

In addition, a baseball player's prime years are 27-33 generally, so it's not like Dunn is going to fall off a cliff those two years and should hit close to his career averages for both.

Finally, if he wasn't a DH here, he'd be a 1B somewhere. His bat is good enough where any minor loss of defense at 1B (the least important defensive position on the field by a wide margin) wouldn't even factor in.

Player performance generally begins to decline at age 30 if not earlier.

I must have missed the rush last offseason to sign him for 4/56 to play first.

voodoochile
06-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Player performance generally begins to decline at age 30 if not earlier.

I must have missed the rush last offseason to sign him for 4/56 to play first.

LOL minor drop offs. It's easy to see that players are productive until 35 generally. Peak years are 27-33, period. Maybe 31-33 aren't quite as productive as 27-30, but it's not a serious decline until after 35 for most players.

Harry Chappas
06-06-2011, 02:37 PM
Player performance generally begins to decline at age 30 if not earlier.

I must have missed the rush last offseason to sign him for 4/56 to play first.

And I must have missed the part where Dunn was signed to play running back.:?:

Again, who was it that you coveted that was going to come in and DH that had a resume anywhere near as strong as Dunn's? There's a fairly long list of MLB players that are making around the same as him so it's not like he's making "ARod" coin.

All season, we complained about our lack of a true DH and KW went out and signed one of the most coveted LH power hitters in the game for roughly market value and we're going to sit here and act like this was a huge gamble? Please...

Beat Kenny up for our craptastic farm system and amateur drafts, but the Dunn signing shouldn't be held against him, especially a few months into the season.

Tragg
06-06-2011, 02:45 PM
These stiffs are a result of the preference of Williams, and especially Guillen, for declining veterans with "good attitudes" over young player that Guillen might actually have to work with some.
I

asindc
06-06-2011, 02:51 PM
Who else was offering Dunn anything close to that? The market for DH services did not warrant committing $30 million for Dunn's age 33 and 34 seasons.

BringHomeDaBacon,

I would love to read your answer to the question in bold below.

What is that exactly that you get for 14 mil? Dunn has made 12-13 mil 3 of the last 4 seasons and is a power lefty with 40 hr power and no injury history. Torii Hunter got 18 mil a year as a free agent - what does 14 mil get you in the mlb? Who's that 2nd option they overlooked at dh that was so much better to fill the LH power DH role they and everyone analyst and wsi poster said the Sox needed this offseason?

Dunn was slightly overpaid - the Sox have to do that from time to time because there are few players with lifelong dreams of playing here. And he specifically fought/fights the notion that he's a DH - so here' an extra 4 million. Noone would say a word if he had his usual 14+ homeruns right now.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 03:22 PM
BringHomeDaBacon,

I would love to read your answer to the question in bold below.

Victor Martinez (4/50)

Lance Berkman (1/8)

asindc
06-06-2011, 03:25 PM
Victor Martinez (4/50)

Lance Berkman (1/8)

Victor Martinez would have been a good signing, for sure.

Lance Berkman? Before this season? You have complained about Peavy being oft-injured, yet you cite Berkman as a missed opportunity. Why is that?

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 03:48 PM
Victor Martinez would have been a good signing, for sure.

Lance Berkman? Before this season? You have complained about Peavy being oft-injured, yet you cite Berkman as a missed opportunity. Why is that?

It's only a one year contract. Maybe they could have used the money saved on something like keeping Putz. Since apparently they don't think he can play the field, Viciedo would have been a cheap (and good) option to take over DH the following year and the Dunn resources used to sign Pierre's and/or AJ's replacement. (The Carlos Lee move in reverse?)

In general, I don't think it's good policy to make the DH one of the most highly paid players on the team (should be easy position to fill and no defensive contributions). It think its especially bad policy when your best minor league bat looks almost ready and seems to be a DH.

cards press box
06-06-2011, 03:51 PM
I wish I could believe those of you that say Dunn will rebound to his normal self.

If past history is any indicator of future performance, then the odds are that he will.

gobears1987
06-06-2011, 04:12 PM
I think the reason we've seeing players like Dunn decline earlier than they would've a decade ago is steroid testing. It's no secret that many otherwise clean players turned to steroids as soon as they noticed their age was catching up with them. It will be interesting to see how GM's reevaluate free agents over the age of 30 now.

balke
06-06-2011, 04:12 PM
Victor Martinez would have been a good signing, for sure.

Lance Berkman? Before this season? You have complained about Peavy being oft-injured, yet you cite Berkman as a missed opportunity. Why is that?

Martinez would be good - but that's the same money as Dunn just about. Dunn's OPS and rbi count were way better than Martinez last season. I find it curious anyone would've thought he'd be the better option for DH than Dunn.

Ill add to this... Viciedo's OPS is .877 on his hottest minor league streak. Dunns career OPS is .892 in the pros. So yeah wrong again. Especially when you factor in Viciedo Never walking last time he was called up. Dunn was not a bad deal or bad fit. Dunn is playing like pure crap. Nick Swisher part 2. Run him out of town and everyone will cry and wimper when he hits 50 hr next season.

all*star quentin
06-06-2011, 04:35 PM
Dear Jake,

Get (your groin) well soon! :tongue:

Harry Chappas
06-06-2011, 04:40 PM
Martinez would be good - but that's the same money as Dunn just about. Dunn's OPS and rbi count were way better than Martinez last season. I find it curious anyone would've thought he'd be the better option for DH than Dunn.

Ill add to this... Viciedo's OPS is .877 on his hottest minor league streak. Dunns career OPS is .892 in the pros. So yeah wrong again. Especially when you factor in Viciedo Never walking. Dunn was not a bad deal or bad fit. Dunn is playing like pure crap. Nick Swisher part 2. Run him out of town and everyone will cry and wimper when he hits 50 hr next season.

For all we know, the Sox put feelers out to Martinez's people and didn't get a favorable response. It's not like he signed with Royals. I have no love for the Red Sox, but they still manage to woo a lot of desirable free agents.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Martinez would be good - but that's the same money as Dunn just about. Dunn's OPS and rbi count were way better than Martinez last season. I find it curious anyone would've thought he'd be the better option for DH than Dunn.

Ill add to this... Viciedo's OPS is .877 on his hottest minor league streak. Dunns career OPS is .892 in the pros. So yeah wrong again. Especially when you factor in Viciedo Never walking last time he was called up. Dunn was not a bad deal or bad fit. Dunn is playing like pure crap. Nick Swisher part 2. Run him out of town and everyone will cry and wimper when he hits 50 hr next season.

Dunn career: .248/.378/.514 vs RHP: .256/.392/.542 vs LHP: .229/.348/.453

VMart career: .300/.369/.470 vs RHP: .299/.363/.464 vs LHP: .300/.378/.479

I understand why you might prefer Dunn but I'll take VMart any day since he can't be neutralized by a LOOGY late in games. While I generally look at OPS first, in this case the dramatic differences in batting average cannot be ignored IMO. I'll take the switch hitter that can hit .300 with patience and power from both sides of the plate.

balke
06-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Dunn career: .248/.378/.514 vs RHP: .256/.392/.542 vs LHP: .229/.348/.453

VMart career: .300/.369/.470 vs RHP: .299/.363/.464 vs LHP: .300/.378/.479

I understand why you might prefer Dunn but I'll take VMart any day since he can't be neutralized by a LOOGY late in games. While I generally look at OPS first, in this case the dramatic differences in batting average cannot be ignored IMO. I'll take the switch hitter that can hit .300 with patience and power from both sides of the plate.

I would too. I never wanted Dunn. But I can't say with a straight face that he's making too much money or that he was a bad option. He's got 40-40 power and gets 100 rbis routinely on bad teams. As a DH who isn't hurting the Sox by playing terrible defense - I like him. I would prefer a vmart type though. Just give me a guy who can hit for average with 30+ homerun potential.

all*star quentin
06-06-2011, 07:08 PM
Just heard on the pregame show, mild strain.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/5815751-574/jake-peavy-day-to-day-with-strained-groin.html

DirtySox
06-07-2011, 06:08 PM
ChuckGarfien Chuck Garfien
Jake Peavy is going on the DL.
50 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Hitmen77
06-07-2011, 09:24 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-peavy-says-hes-headed-to-dl-no-regrets-about-pitching-sunday-20110607,0,4843033.story

Peavy says he's headed to the DL. He'll miss at least 2 starts.

sunofgold
06-07-2011, 09:59 PM
Marquez again?

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-07-2011, 10:06 PM
Marquez again?

Doubt it, don't the Sox have to wait a few days before recalling the same guy?

jcw218
06-07-2011, 10:14 PM
Marquez again?

Doubt it, don't the Sox have to wait a few days before recalling the same guy?


It could be. I do not believe that the 10 day rule applies in a case of injury. I recall that players have been sent down one day only to return the next when another player was injured.

Nelfox02
06-07-2011, 10:35 PM
could be worse.....although sometimes groin injuries can linger.....

do the sox need to change their approach with how they handle Peavy? didnt SD treat him with kid gloves during his time there.....even during his great 2007 season?

palehozenychicty
06-07-2011, 10:40 PM
Well, what can we say? Body by Jake, he ain't. :(:

TDog
06-07-2011, 10:45 PM
Marquez again?

It doesn't have to be a pitcher. The White Sox have a six-man rotation because Peavy was activated and the starter originally planned to go to the bullpen to make room for Peavy was the most consistent White Sox starter. I don't see the Sox bringing up another starter to step into the six-man rotaton. Losing a starter does not shorten the bullpen.

Maybe the Sox will bring up a reliever because they won't plan on letting the starters go as deep into games as they return to normal rest. But I would rather have more help on the bench.

Tragg
06-07-2011, 11:19 PM
What an acquisition. He live on the disabled list.

joshua1024
06-08-2011, 09:08 AM
Here are just a few recent acquisitions made by other AL teams...

Red Sox - Carl Crawford (.248/5 HRs; 7 years/$142 million)
Red Sox - Bobby Jenks (6.57 ERA $12 million)
Red Sox - Marco Scutaro (.235 1 HR, 2 years/$12.5 million)
Tigers - Magglio Ordonez (.172/1 HR; 1 year/$10 million)
Yankees - Rafael Soriano (5.4 ERA, 1.73 WHIP 3-years/$35 million)
Twins - Carl Pavano (4.83 ERA, 3-5, 2 years/$16.5 million)
Mariners - Chone Figgins (.186/1 HR 4 years/$36 million)

Some of you are a little myopic. Virtually every team in the league has some "bad paper" and as much as we all like to get worked up about Mark Teahen's deal, it's hardly noteworthy when you look around the league.


Great insight. The only difference is that the Sox's "bad paper" includes 3 names that were, just yesterday, at the top (the very top) of many people's "greatest players" list. That makes the indelible ink of the "bad paper" all the more frustrating. [I admit it -- If I were Kenny Williams, I would have signed Dunn, Peavy and Rios, too.]

#1swisher
06-08-2011, 03:21 PM
@whitesox (http://twitter.com/?lang=en&logged_out=1#%21/whitesox)

NEWS: Jake Peavy placed on the 15-day disabled list (retroactive to June 6) ALSO #whitesox recall Lucas Harrell from Class AAA Charlotte