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View Full Version : KW confident in coaching staff


JermaineDye05
06-05-2011, 01:10 PM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6625738)

Once again, he's pointing to the players as the root of the problem.

However, after many slow starts with new players, I have to think that the coaching staff is certainly one of the problems.

Gavin
06-05-2011, 01:38 PM
Start with Ozzie.

I can't beleive KW can say **** like this. Chicago media has gone soft.

Is there no one out there saying "really???".

voodoochile
06-05-2011, 01:42 PM
Start with Ozzie.

I can't beleive KW can say **** like this. Chicago media has gone soft.

Is there no one out there saying "really???".

Well maybe they are looking at the last month of baseball and saying... maybe it was just a bad run and KW has a point...

But maybe everyone does suck and the first month is the truth while the last month is the aberration...

SI1020
06-05-2011, 01:54 PM
Assuming he was quoted correctly, man was he ever shoveling furiously.

BainesHOF
06-05-2011, 03:04 PM
Hogwash, Kenny.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 03:23 PM
What must Jerry Manuel have done to get fired? Or Ron Jackson? Or Von Joshua?

Tragg
06-05-2011, 03:26 PM
Once again, he's pointing to the players as the root of the problem.


He should point the finger at himself: he's acquired all of these stiffs.

TDog
06-05-2011, 03:43 PM
Assuming he was quoted correctly, man was he ever shoveling furiously.

Is Adam Dunn's problem (are Dunn's problems) bad coaching? Is anyone surprised he strikes out a lot? Is that an abberation? If he has a great April, the White Sox have a winning April, and maybe there were some who expected that a career National Leaguer would immediately adjust to DHing in a new league. I do believe, though, that he adjustment would have been easier without the April surgery.

When the GM comes out in support of coaches over the players he signed and traded for an his organization developed, that is, saying the coaches aren't the problem but the problem is with the team he built, I don't see how anyone can consider it "shoveling." Blaming the players is against his personal interest.

GMs in Kenny Williams' position who are acting in personal interest without regard to objective evaluation of their team are blaming their coaches. Managers under fire blame their hitting coach or their hitting coach, or both.

This isn't the White Sox team I would have built this year. I didn't expect Juan Pierre to be so bad defensively in April. I expected more out of Matt Thornton. After last season and from what he showed in spring training, I expected more inspired play out of Alex Rios. But I'm not going to blame Greg Walker for Rios hitting as poorly as he did when he first came to the Sox. I'm not going to blame Don Cooper for Thornton's problems and I'm not going to blame Ozzie Guillen for Juan Pierre dropping fly balls.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Well maybe they are looking at the last month of baseball and saying... maybe it was just a bad run and KW has a point...

But maybe everyone does suck and the first month is the truth while the last month is the aberration...

Overall, it's been a bad run since mid-2006.

SI1020
06-05-2011, 04:28 PM
Is Adam Dunn's problem (are Dunn's problems) bad coaching? Is anyone surprised he strikes out a lot? Is that an abberation? If he has a great April, the White Sox have a winning April, and maybe there were some who expected that a career National Leaguer would immediately adjust to DHing in a new league. I do believe, though, that he adjustment would have been easier without the April surgery.

When the GM comes out in support of coaches over the players he signed and traded for an his organization developed, that is, saying the coaches aren't the problem but the problem is with the team he built, I don't see how anyone can consider it "shoveling." Blaming the players is against his personal interest.

GMs in Kenny Williams' position who are acting in personal interest without regard to objective evaluation of their team are blaming their coaches. Managers under fire blame their hitting coach or their hitting coach, or both.

This isn't the White Sox team I would have built this year. I didn't expect Juan Pierre to be so bad defensively in April. I expected more out of Matt Thornton. After last season and from what he showed in spring training, I expected more inspired play out of Alex Rios. But I'm not going to blame Greg Walker for Rios hitting as poorly as he did when he first came to the Sox. I'm not going to blame Don Cooper for Thornton's problems and I'm not going to blame Ozzie Guillen for Juan Pierre dropping fly balls. OK I guess. That being said, I am ever so tired of this attitude. We're coming on 5 years of mostly mediocre, and sometimes awful White Sox baseball. The same mistakes and shortcomings despite changes in personnel. Seriously TDog, when if ever is there accountability? In the meantime keep shoveling furiously Kenny.

Dick Allen
06-05-2011, 04:40 PM
More lip service. Nothing to see here.

Hitmen77
06-05-2011, 04:43 PM
I'm tired of hearing the excuses and how nobody in Sox management is never accountable.

KW and OG are good at making pronouncements....and then nothing changes.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6625738)

Once again, he's pointing to the players as the root of the problem.

However, after many slow starts with new players, I have to think that the coaching staff is certainly one of the problems.

Assuming he was quoted correctly, man was he ever shoveling furiously.

Hogwash, Kenny.

Agreed.

He should point the finger at himself: he's acquired all of these stiffs.

Good point. If it is all on the players and the coaches and managers are totally unaccountable, then it's on Kenny for acquiring guys who underperform year in and year out.

Different players over the last 5 years and same results.

....and under Kenny's watch we've produced very little talent from our farm system.

Overall, it's been a bad run since mid-2006.

Most of the teams during that time had a good amount of talent. 2007 is probably the one exception.

We did win the division in 2008....but only after this team flubbed a 6 game lead on the Twins. Our last minute comeback that year left our rotation very poorly matches up with the Rays in the ALDS.

Soxfest
06-05-2011, 04:44 PM
Hell yes he is If someone is fired it is a reflection on him, so he blindly keeps them all. JR loyalty is putting this franchise in a death spiral.:angry:

Viva Medias B's
06-05-2011, 06:54 PM
I have no confidence in KW. You know what? Presuming that we fall short of a World Series championship this season, it would be so KW that the Sox lineup on the scoreboard on Opening Day 2012 will have the line "5 PUJOLS DH."

balke
06-05-2011, 07:06 PM
The swing game was lost to Verlander - this was lost to a double play botch. June is an easy month. I doubted this series would be won. End of June is when to complain and cry and fire and the like. For now - I still think the Sox end the month 4 games back or less.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2011, 08:07 PM
I have no confidence in KW. You know what? Presuming that we fall short of a World Series championship this season, it would be so KW that the Sox lineup on the scoreboard on Opening Day 2012 will have the line "5 PUJOLS DH."

If by some miracle the Sox signed Pujols, Greg Walker would promptly turn him into a .240 hitter.

JB98
06-05-2011, 08:13 PM
If by some miracle the Sox signed Pujols, Greg Walker would promptly turn him into a .240 hitter.

:nod:

A. Cavatica
06-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Giving this coaching staff a vote of confidence is grounds for termination.

FIRE KENNY

BringHomeDaBacon
06-05-2011, 09:04 PM
"he comes out personally with the bunters to get some work in"

LOL

Hitmen77
06-05-2011, 10:12 PM
If by some miracle the Sox signed Pujols, Greg Walker would promptly turn him into a .240 hitter.

....and his superiors in the Sox organization would say he (Walker) was doing a heck of a job.

VenturaFan23
06-06-2011, 06:08 AM
....and his superiors in the Sox organization would say he (Walker) was doing a heck of a job.

And don't forget the standard excuse making Walker articles that come with it.

ChiSoxGirl
06-06-2011, 07:55 AM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6625738)

Once again, he's pointing to the players as the root of the problem.

However, after many slow starts with new players, I have to think that the coaching staff is certainly one of the problems.

I was having this discussion with my bf while at the ballpark yesterday afternoon. While the overwhelming majority of us say Greg Walker is to blame, there are some people who defend that dude up and down, left and right. Everyone is entitled to their own perspectives and opinions, but, to me, the writing is on the wall. Throughout Walker's tenure as the hitting coach, our offensive lineups have turned over numerous times and we've had a mix of different types of players. Regardless of the mix, the end result is usually the same -- failing to hit with runners in scoring position, a lack of clutch hitting more often than not, players "trying to do too much," etc. How is the hitting coach at least not partially responsible?

Think back to the days of Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura; those guys didn't fail in the clutch like most of our lineup does and has during Walker's tenure here (save Paul Konerko). I understand that Walt Hriniak was the hitting coach at the time, but maybe that's the point -- Walker wasn't the hitting coach.

balke
06-06-2011, 09:22 AM
If by some miracle the Sox signed Pujols, Greg Walker would promptly turn him into a .240 hitter.

You guys do know Pujols has been a .240 - .270 hitter the majority of this year right?

harwar
06-06-2011, 09:34 AM
I have no confidence in KW. You know what? Presuming that we fall short of a World Series championship this season, it would be so KW that the Sox lineup on the scoreboard on Opening Day 2012 will have the line "5 PUJOLS DH."

I'm thinking that this year was the last "go for broke" year ..

tstrike2000
06-06-2011, 09:44 AM
After reading that, looks like the GM needs to be added to the list of people to get rid of.

doublem23
06-06-2011, 09:46 AM
Honestly, what the hell do you expect the guy to say publicly?

kittle42
06-06-2011, 10:16 AM
Honestly, what the hell do you expect the guy to say publicly?

"When the weather warms up, my general managing will get better."

doublem23
06-06-2011, 10:17 AM
"When the weather warms up, my general managing will get better."

:thumbsup:

Lip Man 1
06-06-2011, 10:49 AM
You wonder what Kenny's mindset is now seeing what happened over the weekend.

Lip

kittle42
06-06-2011, 10:55 AM
You wonder what Kenny's mindset is now seeing what happened over the weekend.

Lip

This weekend changed nothing, the same as the Boston series and the same as the Toronto series. The team is fundamentally flawed, leading to maddening inconsistency.

doublem23
06-06-2011, 10:58 AM
This weekend changed nothing, the same as the Boston series and the same as the Toronto series. The team is fundamentally flawed, leading to maddening inconsistency.

I can't imagine who anyone who'se watched baseball for more than 2 months could have had any perception change of the White Sox in the past few weeks, it's the same old crap, same old goofy mistakes, all that ****.

russ99
06-06-2011, 11:05 AM
This weekend changed nothing, the same as the Boston series and the same as the Toronto series. The team is fundamentally flawed, leading to maddening inconsistency.

I swear, our fans are bipolar. Big picture, we're 17-12 since the bad Twins series in early May - only 10 of which were home games. Not the best, but still moving towards .500 and contention. Are we really expecting them to win 9-10 in a row?

Two of the three Tigers games were winnable, and had our pen closed it down on Saturday, we would be talking about how we won the series.

Also, the schedule up to the break is favorable, time to get on a run:
3 vs. Seattle, 4 vs Oakland, home and home vs. the Twins, 3 vs. the Royals and the 15 remaining interleague games. IMO, we can do better than 17-12.

kittle42
06-06-2011, 11:11 AM
I swear, our fans are bipolar. Big picture, we're 17-12 since the bad Twins series in early May. Not the best, but still moving towards .500 and contention. Are we really expecting them to win 9-10 in a row?

Two of the three Tigers games were winnable, and had our pen closed it down on Saturday, we would be talking about how we won the series.

Also, the schedule up to the break is favorable, time to get on a run:
3 vs. Seattle, 4 vs Oakland, home and home vs. the Twins, 3 vs. the Royals and the 15 remaining interleague games. IMO, we can do better than 17-12.

I am not one of the bipolar folks - I have been treating the season with very measured expectations since the early collapses.

The problem is you can't ignore what happened before early May. And you can't just look at the record - without some of the completely baffling mistakes and decisions, that 17-12 record could easily be 20-9 or better. Sure, a home-and-home against the woeful Twins looks great, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox won only one of those games or lost only one of those games - that right there says a ton about this team.

doublem23
06-06-2011, 11:27 AM
I swear, our fans are bipolar. Big picture, we're 17-12 since the bad Twins series in early May - only 10 of which were home games. Not the best, but still moving towards .500 and contention. Are we really expecting them to win 9-10 in a row?

Two of the three Tigers games were winnable, and had our pen closed it down on Saturday, we would be talking about how we won the series.

Also, the schedule up to the break is favorable, time to get on a run:
3 vs. Seattle, 4 vs Oakland, home and home vs. the Twins, 3 vs. the Royals and the 15 remaining interleague games. IMO, we can do better than 17-12.

I am not one of the bipolar folks - I have been treating the season with very measured expectations since the early collapses.

The problem is you can't ignore what happened before early May. And you can't just look at the record - without some of the completely baffling mistakes and decisions, that 17-12 record could easily be 20-9 or better. Sure, a home-and-home against the woeful Twins looks great, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox won only one of those games or lost only one of those games - that right there says a ton about this team.

It is, frankly, belittling to say that anyone whose not watching these White Sox with rose colored glasses has some sort of mental condition. You can harp and harp that "we just need the bullpen to close X game out" or "we just needed Player Y to get a clutch hit" and we'd have more wins. But we're 61 games into this season, over 1/3 of the way done, and it's been the same song and dance persistently since the 1st week of the season.

Ultimately, the Sox have to play better than 17-12 baseball if they're going to dig themselves out of that hole they played themselves into, and they're not going to do it by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. Oh, and always losing to a team they're chasing.

russ99
06-06-2011, 11:52 AM
It is, frankly, belittling to say that anyone whose not watching these White Sox with rose colored glasses has some sort of mental condition. You can harp and harp that "we just need the bullpen to close X game out" or "we just needed Player Y to get a clutch hit" and we'd have more wins. But we're 61 games into this season, over 1/3 of the way done, and it's been the same song and dance persistently since the 1st week of the season.

Ultimately, the Sox have to play better than 17-12 baseball if they're going to dig themselves out of that hole they played themselves into, and they're not going to do it by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. Oh, and always losing to a team they're chasing.

The Sox have 31 games until the break

To get to the break at .500, the Sox need to go 18-13
To get 5+ games over .500, the Sox need to go 21-10
To get ahead of where the Indians are now (9 over) the Sox need to go 23-8

Considering the schedule, at least the first should be doable, and the others certainly within reach.

My point being, we dug a hole early, but the Sox have been and can continue building towards what can be a successful season.

sox1970
06-06-2011, 11:59 AM
The Sox have 31 games until the break

To get to the break at .500, the Sox need to go 18-13
To get 5+ games over .500, the Sox need to go 21-10
To get ahead of where the Indians are now (9 over) the Sox need to go 23-8

Considering the schedule, at least the first should be doable, and the others certainly within reach.

My point being, we dug a hole early, but the Sox have been and can continue building towards what can be a successful season.

They have 32 games.

I want 15-10 over the next 25 to get to 43-43 at the end of interleague play on July 3. Then they'll have 76 games left, with 54 vs the division. 45-31 after July 3rd would get them to 88-74, and hopefully that would be enough.

Carolina Kenny
06-06-2011, 12:03 PM
The Sox have 31 games until the break

To get to the break at .500, the Sox need to go 18-13
To get 5+ games over .500, the Sox need to go 21-10
To get ahead of where the Indians are now (9 over) the Sox need to go 23-8

Considering the schedule, at least the first should be doable, and the others certainly within reach.

My point being, we dug a hole early, but the Sox have been and can continue building towards what can be a successful season.

Since the glorious year of 2005 the Sox have only averaged 84 wins per year. This year may drop us to the 80 win range over the past SIX YEARS.

This is for the largest market team in our Division and an owner willing to spend the bucks.

The Mark Kotsay DH experiment, the Dunn DH experiment, the constant inferior outfield play and production especially in CF, a expensive contract to an injured Peavy,the lack of player development in the minors. This is why Kenny must go.

SI1020
06-06-2011, 12:43 PM
They have 32 games.

I want 15-10 over the next 25 to get to 43-43 at the end of interleague play on July 3. Then they'll have 76 games left, with 54 vs the division. 45-31 after July 3rd would get them to 88-74, and hopefully that would be enough. Enough for maybe a first round exit in the playoffs.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-06-2011, 12:52 PM
The Sox have 31 games until the break

To get to the break at .500, the Sox need to go 18-13
To get 5+ games over .500, the Sox need to go 21-10
To get ahead of where the Indians are now (9 over) the Sox need to go 23-8

Considering the schedule, at least the first should be doable, and the others certainly within reach.

My point being, we dug a hole early, but the Sox have been and can continue building towards what can be a successful season.

I feel like I read this post every year.

doublem23
06-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Enough for maybe a first round exit in the playoffs.

After this horrendous start, I'd be plenty happy with a 3 and out in the postseason. At least something to build on for 2012, which right now looks like a cross between a total lost season and the Baseball Apocalypse.

CHISOXFAN13
06-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Enough for maybe a first round exit in the playoffs.

Beats the alternative.

chisoxfanatic
06-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Also, the schedule up to the break is favorable, time to get on a run: 3 vs. Seattle, 4 vs Oakland, home and home vs. the Twins, 3 vs. the Royals and the 15 remaining interleague games. IMO, we can do better than 17-12.
If they continue to play like they do at home, then even the so-called "cupcakes" are going to walk all over us. This team needs to change things up at home.

captain54
06-06-2011, 02:50 PM
You wonder what Kenny's mindset is now seeing what happened over the weekend.

Lip

No matter what the mindset, I've been resigned to pretty much tune out his public statements and addresses to the media. He's become a spin doctor extraordinaire, and if anything, his 10 yrs or so on the job has seen him hone this technique

That being said, KW really has nothing else to say to the media at this point then to try to spin a positive tone that, yeah its the players fault who are underperforming, but they are proven producers and everything will be fine.

He could be right. 5 games under .500 and yet the Sox could turn it around and be right in the thick of it the last two months of the season or even by the break. On the other hand, its equally possible for it to go the other way and be double digits back by the ASB.

A. Cavatica
06-06-2011, 07:57 PM
The Sox have 31 games until the break

To get to the break at .500, the Sox need to go 18-13
To get 5+ games over .500, the Sox need to go 21-10
To get ahead of where the Indians are now (9 over) the Sox need to go 23-8

Considering the schedule, at least the first should be doable, and the others certainly within reach.


And what record do we need to get back into the cellar?

This might be the year we finally catch Minnesota.

voodoochile
06-06-2011, 08:43 PM
And what record do we need to get back into the cellar?

This might be the year we finally catch Minnesota.

OMG...

Laughing my ****ing ass off!

I have been wondering why the dark clouds have been partying so hard these last few days then I remembered... The Sox lost two in row...

TWO IN A ROW!!!

:tongue:

:darkcloud:

A. Cavatica
06-06-2011, 09:06 PM
OMG...

Laughing my ****ing ass off!

I have been wondering why the dark clouds have been partying so hard these last few days then I remembered... The Sox lost two in row...

TWO IN A ROW!!!

It was tongue in cheek.

russ99 is dreaming up the "if the Sox go 23-8" scenarios. I'm just pointing out that they're closer to the cellar than first place.

voodoochile
06-06-2011, 09:13 PM
It was tongue in cheek.

russ99 is dreaming up the "if the Sox go 23-8" scenarios. I'm just pointing out that they're closer to the cellar than first place.

And two days ago the opposite was true...

But the comments aren't just directed at you. There's been a serious level of dread spouting since the Sox lost yesterday.

I should be used to it by now, but sometimes I just gotta vent too...

A. Cavatica
06-06-2011, 09:39 PM
And two days ago the opposite was true...

But the comments aren't just directed at you. There's been a serious level of dread spouting since the Sox lost yesterday.

I should be used to it by now, but sometimes I just gotta vent too...

Well, they only have to go 22-8 now.

russ99
06-06-2011, 11:09 PM
It was tongue in cheek.

russ99 is dreaming up the "if the Sox go 23-8" scenarios. I'm just pointing out that they're closer to the cellar than first place.

Against that schedule with all the home dates, it's certainly possible. Not likely, but possible.

kittle42
06-07-2011, 12:35 AM
Against that schedule with all the home dates, it's certainly possible. Not likely, but possible.

31-0 is also possible.

russ99
06-07-2011, 10:49 AM
31-0 is also possible.

When have the Sox gone 31-0?

Last summer against similar creampuff teams, and a worse roster we went 26-6.

And yes, I love watching Sox baseball in the summer when they're contending, so I have a vested interest in the "glass half-full" mentality.

A. Cavatica
06-07-2011, 09:45 PM
When have the Sox gone 31-0?

That just means they're due.

I don't think they have ever gone 0-31, either, so put them down for 31-31.