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View Full Version : Frank Thomas weighs in on Dunn's struggles


PeteWard
06-03-2011, 11:30 AM
Not sure I buy it, but could be.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-big-frank-dunn-thinking-too-much-about-hitting-20110603,0,3315162.story

Marqhead
06-03-2011, 11:33 AM
I assume that hitting in baseball, much like golf, has a very large mental aspect. I can see it being the case, but I'm sure it's not the only reason for his struggles.

JermaineDye05
06-03-2011, 12:01 PM
He had a very interesting interview on B&B the other day after the Sox sweep. He pretty much said the same thing. He predicted that Dunn would struggle the first couple of months since it's difficult to go from being a fielder your whole career to being a full time DH.

Link (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdX%2FdU%2Fd7%2FdP%2FXU7P_3.MP3%3Fauthtok %3D5561473184803210528_SboAxaxgYkbnWo1lpSLsMvBi0&podcast_name=Frank+Thomas+on+the+Boers+and+Bernste in+Show&podcast_artist=Boers+and+Bernstein&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI)

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2011, 12:01 PM
Since some DH duty seemed to help Paulie last year, and since Quentin isn't exactly a star defender in RF (but can be fragile), how about starting Dunn twice weekly at 1B and once weekly in RF, just to give him some time to focus on other aspects of the game.

When Dunn plays RF, Lillibridge can be a pinch hitter against LHP relievers (against whom Dunn doesn't do well over his career), pinch runner (if Dunn gets on base), and defensive replacement.

JermaineDye05
06-03-2011, 12:07 PM
Since some DH duty seemed to help Paulie last year, and since Quentin isn't exactly a star defender in RF (but can be fragile), how about starting Dunn twice weekly at 1B and once weekly in RF, just to give him some time to focus on other aspects of the game.

When Dunn plays RF, Lillibridge can be a pinch hitter against LHP relievers (against whom Dunn doesn't do well over his career), pinch runner (if Dunn gets on base), and defensive replacement.

No.

That is just something you do not want to see.

1B is fine, but not the outfield.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2011, 12:11 PM
No.

That is just something you do not want to see.

1B is fine, but not the outfield.

Would he be that much worse than Quentin? If it would help get Dunn out of his funk, I think a once-weekly defensive downgrade might be worth it.

FielderJones
06-03-2011, 12:14 PM
Would he be that much worse than Quentin?

Yes. Yes he would. The downgrade would be so horrific you'd want Quentin back out there every day.

voodoochile
06-03-2011, 12:14 PM
I'm sorry I think some of his issues are also tied to the appendix thing too. Between the switch and the surgery he's had a rough start to the year physically and mentally. Give him time. He'll be fine.

sunofgold
06-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Mod edit: Do not directly quote copyrighted material. You can paraphrase what was said, but quoting directly is a no-no.

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I called it 'planned craziness' but I like 'best button-pusher" better. Just keeping the pressure of the team. Seems like we forget that he does this when necessary.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Yes. Yes he would. The downgrade would be so horrific you'd want Quentin back out there every day.

OK, I concede the point. I haven't seen Dunn actually play the outfield, so I'll trust those who have.

captain54
06-03-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm sorry I think some of his issues are also tied to the appendix thing too. Between the switch and the surgery he's had a rough start to the year physically and mentally. Give him time. He'll be fine.

Sure...he's only making $14 mill a year, and the Sox offense and season, for the most part relies on him...so yea, no biggie, take your time big guy

asindc
06-03-2011, 12:40 PM
OK, I concede the point. I haven't seen Dunn actually play the outfield, so I'll trust those who have.

Dunn is so bad in the OF that I would rather have Teahen at 3rd.

JB98
06-03-2011, 12:48 PM
They tried putting Dunn at first base three days out of four on the last homestand, and it didn't work.

I have no problem playing Dunn at first base once a week, just because Paulie is 35 years old and could use the break.

However, I don't think putting Dunn in the field is going to shake him out of this malaise. Further, putting Dunn in the field weakens the defense. Konerko may not be a GG winner, but he is clearly a better 1B than Dunn.

We're overanalyzing this a little too much. It's on Dunn to just starting hitting the damn ball already for crying out loud.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Dunn is so bad in the OF that I would rather have Teahen at 3rd.I would rather put Quentin in CF than Dunn in RF. Seriously.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2011, 01:00 PM
Mod edit: Do not directly quote copyrighted material. You can paraphrase what was said, but quoting directly is a no-no.



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I called it 'planned craziness' but I like 'best button-pusher" better. Just keeping the pressure of the team. Seems like we forget that he does this when necessary.Interesting. That quote directly contradicts the thoughts of WSI' very own baesball expert Khan. Ah, what does Thomas know, anyway.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Interesting. That quote directly contradicts the thoughts of WSI' very own baesball expert Khan. Ah, what does Thomas know, anyway.

I think even the biggest Ozzie haters have admitted that he's an excellent clubhouse manager.

Frank's comments say nothing about the criticism that Ozzie is poor in-game strategist.

I'm neither a hater nor an Ozzpologist. If the Sox make the playoffs this year, he should get a contract extension. If they fail to make the playoffs, he should be fired.

Barring injuries or roster changes, making the playoffs will in large measure be determined by the extent to which the Sox can improve their fundamentals, to support their strong starting pitching. Ozzie will have something to do with the Sox playing good fundamentals or not.

TDog
06-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I'm sorry I think some of his issues are also tied to the appendix thing too. Between the switch and the surgery he's had a rough start to the year physically and mentally. Give him time. He'll be fine.


At the time, I posted that I thought Dunn was coming back too soon. Teahen was hitting well at DH against righties, the team was hitting well and I didn't see any reason to rush Dunn back into the lineup. That the White Sox as a team stopped hitting when Dunn returned to the lineup amplified Dunn's struggles. He didn't come back early because the team was desperate for hitting, but as the team became desperate for hitting, but as the DH, and often the No. 3 hitter, Dunn's struggles were amplified as the team-wide hitting slump progressed. The overall offensive slump could have made things worse because it could have put more pressure on him in such miserable weather. Dunn said he hit balls in the Cell that he thought were home runs that were caught for outs. That wasn't supposed to happen.

I could see how such events could have snowballed into the current situation, and they would be consistent with what Frank Thomas is suggesting.

There is a difference between being a full-time DH and being someone who takes on the role on an occasional day off from playing the field. Thomas knows that as well as anyone and more than almost everyone. There is even a difference between being a pinch-hitter and a DH. A pinch-hitter is on the bench unsure of when his next at bat will come and often knows there is a possibility he will come into the game on defense or as a pinch-runner. A pinch-hitter often is hand-picked for a specific situation. A designated hitter is out there in the lineup, and with Dunn in the late innings, it is often the other team making a move when he comes up to bat. Before the DH was used in the American League, it was believed that it would be an ideal role for really great pinch-hitters, but it didn't work out that way. Of course, many really great pinch-hitters are singles hitters. Even if Juan Pierre turned out to hit twice as well as a DH, he probably wouldn't provide what many expect from the role.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2011, 01:41 PM
I think even the biggest Ozzie haters have admitted that he's an excellent clubhouse manager.

Frank's comments say nothing about the criticism that Ozzie is poor in-game strategist.

I'm neither a hater nor an Ozzpologist. If the Sox make the playoffs this year, he should get a contract extension. If they fail to make the playoffs, he should be fired.

Barring injuries or roster changes, making the playoffs will in large measure be determined by the extent to which the Sox can improve their fundamentals, to support their strong starting pitching. Ozzie will have something to do with the Sox playing good fundamentals or not.I disagree with the bolded, but agree with pretty much everything else. I hadn't been on the board over the weekened, but I guess there was a debate about whether Ozzie ever goes off to take pressure off of his players. Of course, the super-smart people who want Ozzie fired regardless of what happens this season (or any season) painted anyone who felt Ozzie does that as a blind apologist. While I don't think he is a complete genius and every Ozzie tirade is part of some masterplan, I think it is clear to most people who watch that sometimes he goes off when the team is struggling, just to focus the media scrutiny on himself. Whether his methods work is another question, but at least to Frank, they do. Of course, that doesn't address his bullpen management or anything else people have problems with.

billcissell
06-03-2011, 03:09 PM
I would rather put Quentin in CF than Dunn in RF. Seriously.


You are correct. We can't risk putting that guy out in right field. Quentin is barely mediocre, but Dunn out there would be a disaster. Once a week to relieve PK at first would be fine.

gobears1987
06-03-2011, 03:37 PM
Mod edit: Do not directly quote copyrighted material. You can paraphrase what was said, but quoting directly is a no-no.



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I called it 'planned craziness' but I like 'best button-pusher" better. Just keeping the pressure of the team. Seems like we forget that he does this when necessary.

When I met JR a few years back, he said basically the same thing about Ozzie. There is a reason an Ozzie tirade will never lead to his job being threatened.

voodoochile
06-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Sure...he's only making $14 mill a year, and the Sox offense and season, for the most part relies on him...so yea, no biggie, take your time big guy

Well said...

:rolleyes:

Hitmen77
06-03-2011, 04:20 PM
Sure...he's only making $14 mill a year, and the Sox offense and season, for the most part relies on him...so yea, no biggie, take your time big guy

Yes, but how many sq. ft. does his mansion have? If Dunn starts mashing the ball, maybe Hawk will tell us. :tongue:

captain54
06-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Well said...

:rolleyes:

so let's see....you have your comment in teal, and have placed a cute little "eye rolling" icon in your post....

so I guess that means you think my comment is out of place..

kudos...very clever on your part

voodoochile
06-03-2011, 05:09 PM
so let's see....you have your comment in teal, and have placed a cute little "eye rolling" icon in your post....

so I guess that means you think my comment is out of place..

kudos...very clever on your part

You take my post, twist it and then add some completely over the top comment that has nothing to do with what I said to fit your perverted view of Dunn. It wasn't out of place, when I consider the source, merely par for the course and thus worthy of utter contempt with a side helping of sarcastic eye rolling, nothing more, nothing less.

However you asked for a clarification, so I have given you one. I hope that helps...

captain54
06-03-2011, 05:30 PM
You take my post, twist it and then add some completely over the top comment that has nothing to do with what I said to fit your perverted view of Dunn. It wasn't out of place, when I consider the source, merely par for the course and thus worthy of utter contempt with a side helping of sarcastic eye rolling, nothing more, nothing less.

However you asked for a clarification, so I have given you one. I hope that helps...

I don't think it's out of place to chastise a MLB player who's making $14 M/yr for not producing, but apparently you disagree.

Either way, you obviously don't appreciate your opinion being challenged...and any one that does is a tool in your eyes...so whatever

balke
06-03-2011, 06:03 PM
They tried putting Dunn at first base three days out of four on the last homestand, and it didn't work.

I have no problem playing Dunn at first base once a week, just because Paulie is 35 years old and could use the break.

However, I don't think putting Dunn in the field is going to shake him out of this malaise. Further, putting Dunn in the field weakens the defense. Konerko may not be a GG winner, but he is clearly a better 1B than Dunn.

We're overanalyzing this a little too much. It's on Dunn to just starting hitting the damn ball already for crying out loud.

PK doesn't make amazing diving stops or have the speed to close the gap a ton - but he picks the ball extremely well. And he uses every inch of his reach. Dunn at 1B will mean a lot more 3B. Errors as well as 1B. He doesn't make the extra effort on high or wide throws and can't pick the ball very well. Showed that already in his limited starts there. I'm okay with about as much play as he's gotten there - but not much more.

balke
06-03-2011, 06:09 PM
When I met JR a few years back, he said basically the same thing about Ozzie. There is a reason an Ozzie tirade will never lead to his job being threatened.

Its hard to get that across to fans. They must just think Ozzie is stupid and incapable of diverting attention from the team intentionally.

I'm actually very impressed with how he's managed this year - and this tirade was very well timed with bad Soox play on the road.

Ozzies great. I hated him when he got here and tinkered wirh the lineup and talked trash about frank. I do think he's gotten better year to year and I think he could be a valuable asset going forward in terms of getting players to come to Chicago.

SI1020
06-03-2011, 06:27 PM
Call me dense, call me stupid, call me a hater. I don't believe for a nanosecond that Ozzie goes off on tirades for any reason other than he feels like it that given moment. I do believe that he has in other ways attempted to shield and protect certain players at times. He has had success in being a good clubhouse manager and a good motivator. His game day moves still drive me batty, and yes I'm just a dumb fan who doesn't know jack. I've been tired of him for quite a while but as I and others have stated parity is here in a big way this year. I'm with those who think Cleveland is ripe for the taking. That just leaves the Tigers, so this weekend would be a good time to start getting really serious.

voodoochile
06-03-2011, 07:08 PM
I don't think it's out of place to chastise a MLB player who's making $14 M/yr for not producing, but apparently you disagree.

Either way, you obviously don't appreciate your opinion being challenged...and any one that does is a tool in your eyes...so whatever

No has nothing to do with challenging my opinion. Not even close. I don't mind a good discussion or even an argument. I do think you tend to see it all in as negative a light as things can be viewed. I tend to swing the other way so we will clash.

But, I'll ask...

Does making a **** ton of money make it easy to flip some switch and suddenly start producing?

I didn't imply he should take his sweet time as you did. I merely said that given time he would produce (and as usual that was JMHO). You then took that statement and ran with it in a direction I didn't imply. That's why I rolled my eyes at you. That's why I said consider the source. That's why You now think that I think that you're a tool (which I don't).

So there ya go... even more explanation. But I'm going to stop explaining things to you know so from here on out you'll have to figure out my cryptic eye rolls all on your own.

Have a great day...

Mohoney
06-03-2011, 09:59 PM
I'm sorry I think some of his issues are also tied to the appendix thing too.

Yep. He went through Spring Training, had a good start in Cleveland, then the appendix thing sidelines him. That had to really mess up his head, especially with never being a DH before.

PeteWard
06-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Yep. He went through Spring Training, had a good start in Cleveland, then the appendix thing sidelines him. That had to really mess up his head, especially with never being a DH before.


Good enough but he needs to clear his head and start hitting right now. It is June.

RockJock07
06-03-2011, 11:02 PM
I keep reminding myself that Dunn can murder baseballs and has done so everywhere he's been.

5 40+ HR season plus 2 others at 38 is legit, he's proven he can hit, I can't believe that he's just lost it and he'll only hit 25-30 a season for the life of this contract.

He's been my favorite players since he was back in Cincy and I'm pretty sure when I traded for him in MVP Baseball on PS2 he hit 75 in a season so he's bound to get it going soon right?

kufram
06-04-2011, 03:58 AM
I've never known a hitter to come out of a prolonged slump because someone told him to. There is no rhyme or reason for Dunn's situation. Frank could be right or Dunn just may be having the worst slump of his life because everyone has one at some point.... even Paulie.

We're getting better as a team and not in too bad a position considering where we've been this year so far. IF Adam does join the party it will be right when we need him most and all will be forgiven.

I do think Frank is right about Ozzie in one respect... he is a good button pusher and I guess Frank is in a position to actually know. If the players perform and somebody steps up when they need to to help the team win each series then Ozzie doesn't have to manage a losing situation every night. That is the team putting Ozzie in the best situation to succeed as a manager. See what I did there?

oldgrouch
06-04-2011, 07:59 AM
Not sure I buy it, but could be.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-big-frank-dunn-thinking-too-much-about-hitting-20110603,0,3315162.story

"You can't think and hit at the same time."- Yogi Berra

SI1020
06-04-2011, 09:23 AM
"You can't think and hit at the same time."- Yogi Berra One of the best out of the strike zone hitters ever.

NLaloosh
06-04-2011, 10:06 PM
I've been the biggest opponent to the Dunn deal since before the Sox traded for Jackson. I've never thought much of his baseball skills or the few things that he can do to help a team win games.

However, the guy is going to start hitting again and he will be very similar to the player that he has been. Whether it happens in 2 weeks or 2 months the Sox really have no choice but to keep playing the guy.

He's not going to work himself out of this by sitting on the bench. They can play him at first as much as they can afford to and just wait. He can't play anywhere else on the field.

He will hit. We just have to wait.

captain54
06-05-2011, 12:49 AM
Does making a **** ton of money make it easy to flip some switch and suddenly start producing?

...

Correct..it doesnt...in the world of MLB, that is...a world of overpaid adults playing a boy's game...a world of coddled athletes who have been pampered and sucked up to all their lives.
But in the world you and I live in? the world of real grownups? I've got news for you... There is pressure to flip a switch and start producing for folks who make a tiny fraction of what Adam Dunn makes.

I saw a lady on the street walking amidst cars stopped at a traffic light the other day and she was holding a sign to the effect "Lost my job...5 kids to feed....Please help..God Bless you"....
Now she may have lost her job from her own doing, but I have to say if she had the balls and gumption to pound the streets begging to put food on the table, she seemed pretty motivated.

So I guess that's why this discussion pushes my buttons. If Adam Dunn feels so awful about not being able to produce, why doesnt he forfeit part of his salary?

voodoochile
06-05-2011, 01:52 AM
Correct..it doesnt...in the world of MLB, that is...a world of overpaid adults playing a boy's game...a world of coddled athletes who have been pampered and sucked up to all their lives.
But in the world you and I live in? the world of real grownups? I've got news for you... There is pressure to flip a switch and start producing for folks who make a tiny fraction of what Adam Dunn makes.

I saw a lady on the street walking amidst cars stopped at a traffic light the other day and she was holding a sign to the effect "Lost my job...5 kids to feed....Please help..God Bless you"....
Now she may have lost her job from her own doing, but I have to say if she had the balls and gumption to pound the streets begging to put food on the table, she seemed pretty motivated.

So I guess that's why this discussion pushes my buttons. If Adam Dunn feels so awful about not being able to produce, why doesnt he forfeit part of his salary?

Stupid pointless ridiculous argument is stupid pointless and ridiculous...

:rolleyes:

I'm done...

kufram
06-05-2011, 06:14 AM
Saying mlb players are playing a boy's game is like saying that U.S. Senators sit on a student council, and who's to say that Adam Dunn doesn't do some charital works with some of his dosh? I don't know if he does that or stuffs it in a mattress but he got the money because of his proven track record. There were, and probably still are, more than one team that would pay those sums for his next 4 years.

I'm more than disappointed that he hasn't hit at all as yet and he is not the type of hitter I long to have but the facts are that he is here and not hitting. I'd rather they'd not signed a player like Dunn but I was impressed when they did. Booing him or comparing him to a woman willing to beg for food is just wasting time and energy. I do think the time has come to sit him for several games.... for his own good, but with PK hurt that is harder to do right now.

34rancher
06-05-2011, 07:32 AM
I keep reminding myself that Dunn can murder baseballs and has done so everywhere he's been.

5 40+ HR season plus 2 others at 38 is legit, he's proven he can hit, I can't believe that he's just lost it and he'll only hit 25-30 a season for the life of this contract.

He's been my favorite players since he was back in Cincy and I'm pretty sure when I traded for him in MVP Baseball on PS2 he hit 75 in a season so he's bound to get it going soon right?

Yeah, he's our Alphonso Soriano. He's done so once the team was on a losing effort and had no chance of competing. This guy is so overrated, I yearn for the days when we had a .200 and 10 hr guy. I seriously cannot fathom what Frank and others see in him. He's going to have 120 ks by the break. What happened to the frank philosophy of having contact guys? I thought we learned from the softball teams and thome years.
Edit: Dunn is on pace to pass Sosa in career k's by the end of this contract. He has 350 more already than frank did in his career and is on pace to have more by the break than Thomas did in any full season. What a waste.

captain54
06-05-2011, 11:13 AM
Stupid pointless ridiculous argument is stupid pointless and ridiculous...

:rolleyes:

I'm done...

It's not an argument, I'm actually agreeing with you...if you read it correctly

BringHomeDaBacon
06-05-2011, 12:12 PM
Adam Dunn is an upper class person's Nick Swisher. They're both .250 career hitters with power and on base skills that strikeout a lot. Like Swisher, when he has an off year you get a .220-.230 hitter.

BNLSox
06-06-2011, 10:51 PM
Anyone think a month in AAA to get his confidence back and stop wasting at bats for the big league club might help?

voodoochile
06-06-2011, 10:52 PM
Anyone think a month in AAA to get his confidence back and stop wasting at bats for the big league club might help?

You actually think he'd make it through waivers?

sox1970
06-06-2011, 10:53 PM
Anyone think a month in AAA to get his confidence back and stop wasting at bats for the big league club might help?

When has an established major leaguer in his 30's with a 4 year deal ever gone to the minors? It's not happening. A DL trip is much more likely.

BNLSox
06-06-2011, 10:55 PM
You actually think he'd make it through waivers?

Would it be the worst if he didn't?

If someone wants to take the expense off our books and give us the opportunity to give someone else the chance all the better. But I'm dubious anyone would want the cost.

DSpivack
06-06-2011, 10:59 PM
Would it be the worst if he didn't?

If someone wants to take the expense off our books and give us the opportunity to give someone else the chance all the better. But I'm dubious anyone would want the cost.

Hey, some team claimed Alex Rios on waivers a couple years ago, so anything is possible.

Oh, wait...

russ99
06-06-2011, 11:04 PM
Adam Dunn is an upper class person's Nick Swisher. They're both .250 career hitters with power and on base skills that strikeout a lot. Like Swisher, when he has an off year you get a .220-.230 hitter.

Except Dunn's never hit this poorly in his career.

He's vastly better than Swisher. He'll prove it before too long...

BringHomeDaBacon
06-07-2011, 09:26 AM
Except Dunn's never hit this poorly in his career.

He's vastly better than Swisher. He'll prove it before too long...

I said both of those things: A) upper class person's Swisher and B) even if he raises his average 50 points he'll be at .226 which is in the middle of the .220-.230 range I stated. Since he's a career .248 hitter (that hit .234 and .236 in 06 and 08) and can't seem to hit lefties at all, raising his average 50 points would be significant.

doublem23
06-07-2011, 09:28 AM
It's possible to make your point without being blatantly insulting. Please knock it off.

Alexei4president
06-09-2011, 07:06 PM
Since some DH duty seemed to help Paulie last year, and since Quentin isn't exactly a star defender in RF (but can be fragile), how about starting Dunn twice weekly at 1B and once weekly in RF, just to give him some time to focus on other aspects of the game.

When Dunn plays RF, Lillibridge can be a pinch hitter against LHP relievers (against whom Dunn doesn't do well over his career), pinch runner (if Dunn gets on base), and defensive replacement.



have u seen dunn run???? come on man....come on...:scratch::?:

joshua1024
06-15-2011, 05:13 PM
OK, I concede the point. I haven't seen Dunn actually play the outfield, so I'll trust those who have.

I live in Washington, D.C.; go to a fair number of Nats games; and after seeing Dunn in the outfield over the past two years, I couldn't agree more with those who've already said it: "Adam Dunn can't play right." At first, he'll do. And he's got to keep playing a position somewhere, at least half the week. It's obvious that he has not taken to the DH slot (and may never), without more.:(:

joshua1024
06-15-2011, 05:18 PM
Anyone think a month in AAA to get his confidence back and stop wasting at bats for the big league club might help?

I made this same argument on a different thread last week - before his most recent pair of homers.

I still feel it could do him good -- 'cept for the embarrassment and frustration it would cause Dunn himself. For some reason, it seems that only physically injured players go to the minors for "rehab" stints. "Psychologically injured" players don't. As far as I know, other than for his minor surgery at the start of the season, Dunn has been solely in the latter category this year.