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Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 12:02 PM
Another day, another tirade.

Seems when you back him into a corner he comes out blaming everybody else (including Sox fans.....again.....) At least that's how I took his comments about 2005.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-guillen-nobody-has-more-passion-for-the-game-than-me-20110529,0,4029839.story

As I said yesterday in the postgame thread, Ozzie clearly has crossed the line with me. He's become a ****ing embarrassment. I'll put up with the baggage he brings if he wins, but he's not and hasn't since July 2006. It's time for him and his coaching staff to go.

Lip

JB98
05-29-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm getting tired of this organization taking shots at the fans.

GlassSox
05-29-2011, 12:31 PM
Ozzie needs to shut the **** up and win some ball games. :angry:

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2011, 12:36 PM
This latest rant ripping into the fans just might be the last straw with JR and KW.

miker
05-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Maybe I should of felt this way sooner, but Ozzie's starting to lose me.

daveeym
05-29-2011, 12:43 PM
They should have canned him two weeks ago. Keep on ripping the fans Ozzie and alienate everyone.

captain54
05-29-2011, 12:49 PM
sounds like a man that knows he's on his way out, or wants out.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 12:50 PM
Not watching or going to a single game until his ass is gone.

Patrick134
05-29-2011, 12:56 PM
Ozzie was right in the majority if those comments. Plenty of whiners on this board who go off about firing Walker or Ozzie with little to no knowledge of how baseball works beyond looking at a box score.

thomas35forever
05-29-2011, 12:57 PM
Okay, I've been very, very patient with Ozzie thus far, but this latest tirade is trying that patience quite a bit. Nice job saying we don't care about the organization outside of 2005.:rolleyes:

If changes are going to be made, hopefully, this is a sign that they're going to happen very soon.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 12:58 PM
Ozzie was right in the majority if those comments. Plenty of whiners on this board who go off about firing Walker or Ozzie with little to no knowledge of how baseball works beyond looking at a box score.

Poor baby thin skinned Ozzie needs his bottle because big bad message boards and radio shows have had enough of him. So sad. Better have his dip**** son talk trash on Twitter.

fisk4ever
05-29-2011, 01:06 PM
So sad that his >million dollar salary brings no satisfaction. Leaving with some grace and dignity might make him feel better.

BainesHOF
05-29-2011, 01:09 PM
It's all about Ozzie, isn't it?

delben91
05-29-2011, 01:11 PM
Can't do anything about the tickets I've already bought this year, but I'm not renewing if he's still here next season.

CLR01
05-29-2011, 01:12 PM
Okay, I've been very, very patient with Ozzie thus far, but this latest tirade is trying that patience quite a bit. Nice job saying we don't care about the organization outside of 2005.:rolleyes:

If changes are going to be made, hopefully, this is a sign that they're going to happen very soon.


I read it as we don't even care about 2005!!!!!! anymore. We suck because we don't kiss his ass. Loser

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2011, 01:12 PM
It's all about Ozzie, isn't it?

Actually its about the whole organization, from the front office all the way to the low minors.

BringHomeDaBacon
05-29-2011, 01:16 PM
What a bunch of stream on conscious nonsense. Apparently a logical and coherent baseball related discussion is too much to ask from a major league manager. He's become a Donald Trump level douche.

cws05champ
05-29-2011, 01:18 PM
Please just fire this guy....I'm done with him. If you owned a retail store and verbally abuse your customers as they leave, what do you think would happen?

DirtySox
05-29-2011, 01:21 PM
Not watching or going to a single game until his ass is gone.

I haven't, and don't plan on attending a game this year. I'll be spending my Sox money on a trip to Baltimore or Denver instead. Coors/Camden are on the ballpark list.

WhiteSox5187
05-29-2011, 01:21 PM
Well, Ozzie is hardly the only person in this organization to call out fans, but really, his time here is about up. If we get swept by Boston it might be time to show him the door. Though I still don't think that will help the season any.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 01:22 PM
Please just fire this guy....I'm done with him. If you owned a retail store and verbally abuse your customers as they leave, what do you think would happen?

Seriously. It's absolutely unbelievable he is allowed to talk so much about the fanbase. Of course, KW does the same thing. It's so messed up.

captain54
05-29-2011, 01:23 PM
Ozzie was right in the majority if those comments. Plenty of whiners on this board who go off about firing Walker or Ozzie with little to no knowledge of how baseball works beyond looking at a box score.

wow...I don't even know where to begin with this garbage

Ozzie took all the accolades and soaked up all the adoration in 05' and 6 yrs later there's not much to show for his tenure here except for a lot of disappointment, inconsistency, bad starts...etc...is it entirely his fault?...No, not entirely

However, if he takes the credit for the success, its only fair he takes the credit for the failure..he's the frikkin field manager...that's just how it works in a results-oriented occupation.

There are a lot of fans on this board that have been following the Sox for a long, long time.. It sounds to me like you have little or no knowledge of this board.

What are your qualifications and what's the extent of your baseball acumen to be throwing around accusations and opinions like you do?

BringHomeDaBacon
05-29-2011, 01:26 PM
wow...I don't even know where to begin with this garbage

Ozzie took all the accolades and soaked up all the adoration in 05' and 6 yrs later there's not much to show for his tenure here except for a lot of disappointment, inconsistency, bad starts...etc...is it entirely his fault?
if he takes the credit for the success, its only fair he takes the credit for the failure...that's just how it works in a results-oriented occupation.

There are a lot of fans on this board that have been following the Sox for a long, long time.. It sounds to me like you have little or no knowledge of this board.

What are your qualifications and what's the extent of your baseball acumen to be throwing around accusations and opinions like you do?

You couldn't drive down the street or put on the radio or television without Ozzie trying to sell you a Chevy and Brazilian steak.

LongLiveFisk
05-29-2011, 01:31 PM
Seriously. It's absolutely unbelievable he is allowed to talk so much about the fanbase. Of course, KW does the same thing. It's so messed up.

KW has been oddly silent throughout this tumultuous season so far. I wonder when he is going to speak.

DirtySox
05-29-2011, 01:32 PM
KW has been oddly silent throughout this tumultuous season so far. I wonder when he is going to speak.

He's with the team for this road trip. Hopefully he's preparing his resignation papers.

Noneck
05-29-2011, 01:46 PM
Actually its about the whole organization, from the front office all the way to the low minors.

It starts all the way at the top.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 02:09 PM
This is Ozzie's way of saying to Jerry and Kenny, "Fire me."

It reminds me of George Costanza's attempts to get fired from the Yankees.

All Oz needs to do now is drive around USCF with the 2005 trophy dragging from the back of his car.

DirtySox
05-29-2011, 02:12 PM
All Oz needs to do now is drive around USCF with the 2005 trophy dragging from the back of his car.

That is begging for someone to create an animated GIF.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-29-2011, 02:13 PM
All Oz needs to do now is drive around USCF with the 2005 trophy dragging from the back of his car.

With a large banner behind it that says "Gardy, hire me!"

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 02:24 PM
Patrick:

There's an old saying in business, perhaps you've heard of it, "the customer is always right..."

Owners of businesses or baseball teams may not like to have to deal with some folks who clearly cross the line but even so it's not a good policy to insult those who are enabling you to make millions of dollars.

Generally that comes back to bite you on the ass eventually.

Now speaking with folks in the front office over the years and dealing with individuals personally when I've gone to games I can tell you that whatever else JR may be he understands the business policy that I quoted in the first sentence. He simply does not tolerate fans being treated badly.

Fans are encouraged to call, write, speak their mind anytime they have a bad experience at the ballpark. Folks in the front office are expected to respond to complaints, comments etc.

That's why I am surprised JR allows Ozzie to get away with some of the things he has been saying. It seems very out of character for him to do so. Granted there may be things going on behind the scenes that I don't know about that may explain why things are being allowed to continue.

Regarding Ozzie's coments about his "passion." Passion is a good thing but just because you have passion doesn't mean you are doing the right thing or doing the job properly.

Lip

DickAllen72
05-29-2011, 02:33 PM
Ozzie really lit a fire under his team with his comments after yesterday's game. Can't wait to see the effects these latest comments have.....oh wait...

Noneck
05-29-2011, 02:43 PM
Ozzie really lit a fire under his team with his comments after yesterday's game. Can't wait to see the effects these latest comments have.....oh wait...


I am sure its like farting in the wind to most of the players after all these years. I wonder how deeply he will embarrass himself and lower his worth as the season moves on.

ilsox7
05-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Ozzie lost me over a year ago, so this really does nothing but cement the fact that he needs to go.

Soxfest
05-29-2011, 02:47 PM
OG and his staff and Mr.Smugass KW are never responsible for anything but you Sox fans that is a different story!:angry:

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2011, 02:53 PM
The only games I will go to this year are ones I use my free vouchers for.

GoSox4
05-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Shut the **** up Ozzie

Hitmen77
05-29-2011, 02:58 PM
Hearing Ozzie say this really makes we want to pay over $100 to take my family to see another game this year.

:fireozzie

JB98
05-29-2011, 02:59 PM
His stupid ****ing tirade is airing on CSN right now.

I really resent this ****. I've never peed on a statue in my life. And I think most Sox fans treasure the memories of 2005. He's claiming we don't, and it's bull****.

**** you, Ozzie. We as fans may not know what it's like to manage a MLB team, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan either. In my family, we were Sox fans before you got here and we'll be Sox fans long after you go the **** back to Miami.

DickAllen72
05-29-2011, 03:03 PM
I really resent this ****. I've never peed on a statue in my life. And I think most Sox fans treasure the memories of 2005. He's claiming we don't, and it's bull****.


It just shows you what Ozzie really thinks of White Sox fans. JR should take note. If he thinks it is good business to continually insult the paying customers then he probably can't figure out why attendence sucks.

Ozzie said more than once that if we don't like the way he manages, stop watching the White Sox. I wouldn't pay a dime to go see them play until Ozzie is gone.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 03:04 PM
We have been saying that Ozzie should be gone, but when were we hear a local sports talk show say it? To the best of my knowledge, that has yet to happen. And given the Score's relationship with the Sox, would a Score host mute his thoughts on this subject?

EnglishChiSox
05-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Ozzie, just **** off now please. If everything about the White Sox disgusts you and you can't be bothered managing anymore just go somewhere else.

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2011, 03:08 PM
It just shows you what Ozzie really thinks of White Sox fans. JR should take note. If he thinks it is good business to continually insult the paying customers then he probably can't figure out why attendence sucks.

Ozzie said more than once that if we don't like the way he manages, stop watching the White Sox. I wouldn't pay a dime to go see them play until Ozzie is gone.
He's said that many times, and I'm shocked he's been allowed to do so. If I'm the owner and the "face" of my organization is telling my customers to ignore my franchise, his ass would be canned. The loyalty of the ownership is scary.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 03:10 PM
His stupid ****ing tirade is airing on CSN right now.

I really resent this ****. I've never peed on a statue in my life. And I think most Sox fans treasure the memories of 2005. He's claiming we don't, and it's bull****.

**** you, Ozzie. We as fans may not know what it's like to manage a MLB team, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan either. In my family, we were Sox fans before you got here and we'll be Sox fans long after you go the **** back to Miami.

Yep. It's ****ing bull****. Any smart organization would have fired him by now. He is ripping on the people that help him get a paycheck. It's unbelievable.

Done until he is gone. Should have traded him last year for Billy The Marlin or whoever Florida would have gave us.

DickAllen72
05-29-2011, 03:11 PM
He's said that many times, and I'm shocked he's been allowed to do so. If I'm the owner and the "face" of my organization is telling my customers to ignore my franchise, his ass would be canned. The loyalty of the ownership is scary.
JR is loyal to his cronies but not his paying customers. I guess he really believes we're the kind of people that go around urinating on statues. At least he doesn't seem to mind when his manager insults us with such accusations.

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2011, 03:13 PM
JR is loyal to his cronies but not his paying customers. I guess he really believes we're the kind of people that go around urinating on statues. At least he doesn't seem to mind when his manager insults us with such accusations.
I've never gone, but I'd like to know if any fan has spoken their mind at any of the seminars at Soxfest. Anyone with experience attending Soxfest want to chime in with comments they remember from fans?

SouthSideMike
05-29-2011, 03:14 PM
This team must have the worst PR department in sports. How can you continually allow someone in a high profile position (e.g. Ozzie) to rip the fanbase in public?

Most of the fans are either pissed off or have just plain checked out mentally when it comes to this team. Why stir the pot even more? It's already going to be a titanic struggle to convince fans to come to the ballpark, and there's that small matter of the 125 million dollar payroll.

Any other manager in MLB would have been fired for this stuff.

EnglishChiSox
05-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Any other manager in MLB would have been fired for this stuff.



Any other MLB manager would have been fired after the first time this happened 4 years ago and it's happened every year since at some time.

wassagstdu
05-29-2011, 03:21 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 03:21 PM
Ozzie is probably safer than Joe Girardi is in New York because Jerry Reinsdorf is loyal to a fault.

Railsplitter
05-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Hasta la vista, Ozzie

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Folks:

It never hurts to let the folks in charge know what you think. Make your comments polite and to the point. If you have business connections with the Sox you'll want to let them know that.

Doesn't mean anything will change but at least the organization can't say they weren't told and you can look in the mirror and say you did what you could:

Jerry Reinsdorf
Chairman of the Board
c/o Chicago White Sox
333 W. 35th Street
Chicago, IL. 60616
(312) 674-1000

Scott Reifert (Sr. V.P. Communications)
sreifert@chisox.com

Kenny Williams (G.M.)
kwilliams@chisox.com

Brooks Boyer (Sr. V.P. Sales & Marketing)
bboyer@chisox.com

Lip

JB98
05-29-2011, 03:25 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

I'm the customer. If I don't like the product, I'll spend my hard-earned dollars elsewhere.

Several Sox players are taking a beating on this board. If you haven't noticed, you aren't reading.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

Cool story. We obviously care if we are ****ing criticizing his moves and want him gone. We care about the White Sox and their success. Wouldn't be calling for his head if we didn't care.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 03:28 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

We are a very demanding fan base, as we should be. We are so demanding because we care. There is plenty of fault to be found with the players. That is without dispute. However, Guillen bears a lot of responsibility for this as well. And when Guillen rips the fan base for daring to question the way he does his job, he is a pompous ass who deserves to be fired.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 03:28 PM
Wassag:

Business axiom: "the paying customer is always right..."

I've been an Ozzie supporter through thick and thin but he's crossed the line with me after this. I've been a fan for 51 seasons, have spent a lot of money during that time. How dare he insinuate that I don't care and talk about pissing on statues.

If that makes me self-righteous than I'm guilty as charged.

I've never ever said this before but I will now, **** Ozzie and the horse he rode in on and the folks who think that his derogatory insulting comments are OK need to take a long hard look at themselves. Maybe that sensitivity training has worn off.

Lip

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 03:30 PM
Wassag:

Business axiom: "the paying customer is always right..."

I've been an Ozzie supporter through thick and thin but he's crossed the line with me after this. I've been a fan for 51 seasons, have spent a lot of money during that time. How dare he insinuate that I don't care and talk about pissing on statues.

If that makes me self-righteous than I'm guilty as charged.

I've never ever said this before but I will now, **** Ozzie and the horse he rode in on and the folks who think that his derogatory insulting comments are OK need to take a long hard look at themselves. Maybe that sensitivity training has worn off.

Lip

Spot on.

How he doesn't immediately get fired after ripping on the team's life line (us) is simply baffling. Everybody talks about how JR is loyal to a fault? He sure ain't loyal to us.

BainesHOF
05-29-2011, 03:35 PM
This team must have the worst PR department in sports. How can you continually allow someone in a high profile position (e.g. Ozzie) to rip the fanbase in public?

Most of the fans are either pissed off or have just plain checked out mentally when it comes to this team.

I used to get mad, but I've checked out after seeing the same nonsense repeating endlessly with no changes made. The Sox are no longer appointment TV for me. I won't be going to any games until major changes are made.

Ozzie doesn't get it. He's never been the brightest.

SouthSideMike
05-29-2011, 03:37 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

Of course there are players underperforming. I don't think anybody is saying it's only Ozzie's fault, but I definitely do lay some blame on him for the mediocrity of the last 4 years. The fact is some of those underperforming players aren't going anywhere because of their contract issues. The manager problem is a lot easier and cheaper to solve in the short term, even if you factor in the ridiculous decision to exercise his option.

As a manager, he doesn't have the luxury of ripping the fans the same way they rip him. Fans are consumers who are buying a product. If they don't like the product and get upset, ripping them in public doesn't do much of anything to win them back. He should just ignore it, but he's a hothead with no impulse control and very easy to provoke.

And let's not make it sound as if this is the first time this has happened. He's done this several times over the last 4 years.

Boondock Saint
05-29-2011, 03:37 PM
Not watching or going to a single game until his ass is gone.

I haven't been to a game since the Thornton debacle, and I haven't watched since the no-hitter. I don't plan on doing either again until someone in the organization points a finger at someone other than the fans and fixes this turd that they call a baseball club. Ozzie getting the axe, and a public apology would be a damn good start.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 03:40 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

Five ****ing years and it's still the same ****.

I've supported Ozzie until this year. It's the same slumping offense in the beginning of the season. Something is wrong with this coaching staff and it needs to be addressed.

I don't buy that one of the most prolific HR hitters is going to all of a sudden fall off the map just because he's become a DH.

Also, the fact that Ozzie insinuates that I'm at the park pissing on statues and not giving a damn about the team is really quite insulting.

It's because I care about this team that I voice my objections to a six man rotation and a #3 hitter who has yet to hit lefties. I want what's best for this team to win. In my honest opinion, five years of the same slow offense with new players following suit each year points at a problem with management.

Noneck
05-29-2011, 03:42 PM
I am curious how Guillen knows how the fans are reacting now? He has been on the road the whole week. I wonder if he is reading this forum or getting his info from one of his spawns who is reading here.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 03:42 PM
I am curious how Guillen knows how the fans are reacting now? He has been on the road the whole week. I wonder if he is reading this forum or getting his info from one of his spawns who is reading here.

He has a facebook, a twitter, and a website.

SouthSideMike
05-29-2011, 03:42 PM
I used to get mad, but I've checked out after seeing the same nonsense repeating endlessly with no changes made. The Sox are no longer appointment TV for me. I won't be going to any games until major changes are made.

Ozzie doesn't get it. He's never been the brightest.

I used to make an effort to watch every game I could. Now if I miss a bunch of games during the week, I really don't care. I do try to watch a game here or there, but like you it's lost its place as must-see TV for me.

And I was planning on going to a lot more games this year before this ****-show started; I'll probably still go to one or two, but no more than that.

TomBradley72
05-29-2011, 03:45 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

He's had one post season appearance in 5 seasons-including 2 seasons < .500 and a 3rd in progress- separate from his unprofessional rants, etc.- the teams performance is enough to support a change.

Boondock Saint
05-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Sometimes WSI just gives me a giant pain in the ass. God, you people are self-righteous. Of course, it couldn't be the fault of the players who are underperforming ridiculously, it is that manager who insists on bunting. And God forbid he should criticize us for calling him an idiot and accusing him of not caring.

I don't recall hearing a single player say that I should stop watching the team if I don't like the way he hits/pitches. Why, I think only some idiot jackass would make a comment like that. But I guess Ozzie got what he wants in the end. I've stopped watching. **** him. **** him for refusing to change his stupid management philosophies. **** him for pointing the finger at everyone but himself. **** him for embarrassing the Sox with his profane public bitchfests. And **** him for making me not give a **** about the team I love.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 03:48 PM
He's had one post season appearance in 5 seasons-including 2 seasons < .500 and a 3rd in progress- separate from his unprofessional rants, etc.- the teams performance is enough to support a change.

Two.

Sox won the central in 2008.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 03:49 PM
Two.

Sox won the central in 2008.

He is talking about 2006 on. I mean I guess we should throw out 2005 anyway since Ozzie thinks we don't care and just piss on statues when we are drunk.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 03:51 PM
Ozzie at the Cell after the roadtrip:

yngq9NmOnFw

TomBradley72
05-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Two.

Sox won the central in 2008.

Five seasons-

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Five seasons-

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010

My mistake. I thought you meant his management career as a whole.

:redface:

Dick Allen
05-29-2011, 03:57 PM
None of this should surprise us. Right after the strike in '94 began, I remember him flapping his gums, something to the effect that the players don't owe the fans anything. His mouth works much faster than his brain.

Over By There
05-29-2011, 04:01 PM
Probably futile, but I took Lip's advice and wrote an email to the three amigos listed above.

Mr. Williams, Mr. Reifert and Mr. Boyer,

I've been a White Sox fan all my life, and for years now, both before and after 2005, I have watched or listened to White Sox games religiously. I've always tried to be a good fan - one that the Sox organization would be proud to have. I'm a hardworking guy who has spent my money at US Cellular Field and and traveled to watch the Sox play in other cities. While at games I always try to embody what a good fan should be - I try to be a student of the game and behave myself at the park out of respect for other fans and the organization. In short, I try to embody the opposite of what many would consider a "stereotypical" White Sox fan because the caricature of the bellicose, drunk, ignorant Sox fan is one I resent very much. I'm a regular contributing member at White Sox Interactive, where I've actually been considered a "polyanna" at times for sticking up for Mr. Williams and Mr. Guillen despite some frustrating times recently.

A couple things happened today that have really changed my outlook on the White Sox. First, the performance on the field this weekend was really poor, obviously, and for the first time this season (and probably since 2007) I decided I'd rather just watch golf or something else instead of my beloved Sox. Then, a couple hours later, I saw the Tribune article where Mr. Guillen took shots at the fanbase, basically implying that we're all drunks who urinate on statues and don't care about or understand the game.

Frankly, this incenses me. As stated above, I have always tried to be a respectful, intelligent fan - and there are tons more White Sox fans out there just like me, as you know. I find it really insulting that our manager - one who I have perhaps naively defended amongst other fans - cares so little for this dedicated fan (and furthermore, paying customer) that he threw me under the bus, invoking the worst imagery of the White Sox and their fans.

Whether Mr. Guillen or his players keep their jobs much longer is your decision. However, at the very least, I think Mr. Guillen owes the folks who invested so much in this franchise over the years (emotionally and financially) an apology.

Respectfully,

russ99
05-29-2011, 04:03 PM
We are a very demanding fan base, as we should be. We are so demanding because we care. There is plenty of fault to be found with the players. That is without dispute. However, Guillen bears a lot of responsibility for this as well. And when Guillen rips the fan base for daring to question the way he does his job, he is a pompous ass who deserves to be fired.

Not saying what Ozzie said today is right, but some fans need to look in the mirror.

When watching baseball becomes just about bitching and moaning on what you perceive or unrealistically expect, maybe it's time to step away. Its only baseball.

If you really care, maybe you should lay off the vitriol, as its helping no one. There are many ways to voice your displeasure with the team's performance, best of all to just stop watching/going to games.

daveeym
05-29-2011, 04:10 PM
I also love how Oz usually sticks his foot in his mouth during pre game interviews. He's had the night to rest and forget about the day before yet he still comes out and rips the fans. There's thought behind those actions and not just reacting in the heat of the moment after a bad loss. In this instance he's even on the road so it's not like he's reacting to a booing fan base or something. He's obviously getting emails, reading the net, reading papers, or getting tweets from his dumb ass son to come back the next day and rip the fans.

captain54
05-29-2011, 04:13 PM
When watching baseball becomes just about bitching and moaning on what you perceive or unrealistically expect, maybe it's time to step away. Its only baseball.

.

Don't really get this at all.

The fans are perceiving bad baseball. Its not unrealistic to expect good baseball, seeing that the owner has sunk $127 million into payroll and into a team that is in one of the largest markets in the country.

I think the ownership/management, etc. have it easy here in Chicago..if this team/ownership/management was on the East Coast they would be eviserated.

Dick Allen
05-29-2011, 04:17 PM
Not saying what Ozzie said today is right, but some fans need to look in the mirror.

When watching baseball becomes just about bitching and moaning on what you perceive or unrealistically expect, maybe it's time to step away. Its only baseball.

If you really care, maybe you should lay off the vitriol, as its helping no one. There are many ways to voice your displeasure with the team's performance, best of all to just stop watching/going to games.This is a fan forum. If he, or the rest of us, want to vent about this awful team and its manager, then it is our prerogative. Maybe you should be the one to step back.

Dan H
05-29-2011, 04:17 PM
None of this should surprise us. Right after the strike in '94 began, I remember him flapping his gums, something to the effect that the players don't owe the fans anything. His mouth works much faster than his brain.

Actually, this was in 1995 after the players returned and Ozzie claims he was angry at fans for making racial slurs at Frank Thomas. In 1999, he didn't back off his statement. However, his choice of words was bad and certainly not smart in the light of the fan backlash to the strike.

I think this tirade is worse. The team is awful and he lashes out at fans in the dumbest way. I even understand him for being angry for fans calling for head. I wouldn't like that either. But he has been associated with the team for a long time, and he shouldn't want to go out this way. He should know as well as any other baseball man that managers usually don't resign; they get fired. Many times they get fired unjustly. He's no different in any case.

This is a rant he should have done in private if he wanted to blow off steam. I agree with many others that he wants to get fired. Meanwhile, the team is sinking in the standings and he is doing nothing to stop it with this nonsense.

johnny bench
05-29-2011, 04:18 PM
I could care less what Ozzie says or thinks about the fans. I'm not insulted and I'm still going to go to all the games I already have tickets for and then some.

Domeshot17
05-29-2011, 04:18 PM
Don't really get this at all.

The fans are perceiving bad baseball. Its not unrealistic to expect good baseball, seeing that the owner has sunk $127 million into payroll and into a team that is in one of the largest markets in the country.

I think the ownership/management, etc. have it easy here in Chicago..if this team/ownership/management was on the East Coast they would be eviserated.

Just look at who you are responding too. Some have consistently said we should consider anything above a .500 season successful, and consistently defended Ozzie for anything and everything. If you don't fit into his idea of being a fan, he will let you know.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 04:19 PM
Shut the **** up Ozzie

http://i.imgur.com/BSNrC.jpg

I think we actually need Walter Sobchak to keep Ozzie in line. Someone to just tell him exactly what you posted, Shut the **** up.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0OaeMYTbs4)

HaroMaster87
05-29-2011, 04:24 PM
This team sucks...no one knows why, it just does. Firing Ozzie makes zero difference. Sure it will make everyone feel better for about a week. Then what? There's still 4 months to go. I think we need a change too but I got my crosshairs aimed at KW. He built this pile of crap.

Ozzie is the least of our problems. He's like a 2 year old kicking and screaming when they don't get an extra cookie. Ignore him. Geez

Domeshot17
05-29-2011, 04:30 PM
This team sucks...no one knows why, it just does. Firing Ozzie makes zero difference. Sure it will make everyone feel better for about a week. Then what? There's still 4 months to go. I think we need a change too but I got my crosshairs aimed at KW. He built this pile of crap.

Ozzie is the least of our problems. He's like a 2 year old kicking and screaming when they don't get an extra cookie. Ignore him. Geez

This looks like it has quit on him. Notice how when other manager's are on the hot seat, players will come to their defense, and none of the players are for Ozzie. The way they play, the comments they make, it is just time to move on. This team has enough talent to salvage the season.

WSox597
05-29-2011, 04:38 PM
With a large banner behind it that says "Gardy, hire me!"

That banner would be hanging from Harrelson's car, the way he idolizes Gardenhire and the Twins.

rainbow6
05-29-2011, 04:59 PM
While I respect the fact that Ozzie's comments offended most of the posters thus far, I can't help but think most people are taking those comments far too personal.

The "fans" that Ozzie is referring to are the drunk morons who scream obsceneties at him on his way back to the dugout. I've been there and heard them - they are not reflective of the fan base or this board, but they are there.

Ozzie knows this to, but these are the unfortunate "vocal' minority.

The "fans" he refers to are the ones who loudly booed Dunn last Saturday during a game the Sox were winning by five runs. I was embarrassed to be in those stands that day.

He also refers to the brain dead (also often drunk) fans calling the post game show; I'm sure many of you have heard them and they too are an embarrassement.

Believe me, Ozzie knows the difference between a "real" fan and these morons.

Any "normal" Sox fan who thinks that those comments are directed at them are either way too sensitive, delusional or just want Ozzie to go for other reasons and feel this is good reason to stoke the flames for his potential firing.

My 2 cents....

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 05:02 PM
While I respect the fact that Ozzie's comments offended most of the posters thus far, I can't help but think most people are taking those comments far too personal.

The "fans" that Ozzie is referring to are the drunk morons who scream obsceneties at him on his way back to the dugout. I've been there and heard them - they are not reflective of the fan base or this board, but they are there.

Ozzie knows this to, but these are the unfortunate "vocal' minority.

The "fans" he refers to are the ones who loudly booed Dunn last Saturday during a game the Sox were winning by five runs. I was embarrassed to be in those stands that day.

He also refers to the brain dead (also often drunk) fans calling the post game show; I'm sure many of you have heard them and they too are an embarrassement.

Believe me, Ozzie knows the difference between a "real" fan and these morons.

Any "normal" Sox fan who thinks that those comments are directed at them are either way too sensitive, delusional or just want Ozzie to go for other reasons and feel this is good reason to stoke the flames for his potential firing.

My 2 cents....

I'll be honest, Ozzie doesn't sound at all like he knows the difference. At least he's not attempting to make the distinction. It sounds to me like he's talking to the fanbase as a whole.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 05:10 PM
My impression is the same as JD's. Personally Ozzie has it easy. 2005 and his contributions to it will never be forgotten but how long should the fan base genuflect and be satisfied that they won a title?

That's been the issue with the Sox fan base for decades, they've been conditioned because of poor ownership and incompetence on the field to not have high expectations.

If Ozzie dared say this in New York, Boston or Philly about their fans, the headlines in the newspaper would be a foot high, radio hosts would be calling for him to be crucified and fans would boo the **** out of him literally every time he stuck his head out of the dugout.

I'll always be grateful for 2005 but like it or not, fair or unfair, Ozzie knows the business he's in, he's a smart guy. And that business is, "what the **** have you done lately?" Not in 2005 but right ****ing now!

And the Sox record since July 2006 has been mediocre at the very best. Ozzie deserves to be held partially accountable for the garbage that fans saw on the field in 2007, 2009 and so far in 2011. That's not being vindictive, that's not having an agenda, that's holding people accountable for what they are getting paid to do, ****ing win games.

Lip

Brian26
05-29-2011, 05:42 PM
Any "normal" Sox fan who thinks that those comments are directed at them are either way too sensitive, delusional or just want Ozzie to go for other reasons and feel this is good reason to stoke the flames for his potential firing.

My 2 cents....

On the otherhand, is Guillen ignorant enough to think that a dozen drunks at the game are representative of the entire Chicago White Sox fanbase?

I think he owes the Sox fans an apology for the ridiculous statements he made before the game. My guess is tomorrow he will either apologize (or try to back-pedal) or he'll be fired. Should be a fun 24 hours.

DumpJerry
05-29-2011, 05:53 PM
I think he owes the Sox fans an apology for the ridiculous statements he made before the game. My guess is tomorrow he will either apologize (or try to back-pedal) or he'll be fired. Should be a fun 24 hours.
I'm thinking neither will happen.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 05:54 PM
On the otherhand, is Guillen ignorant enough to think that a dozen drunks at the game are representative of the entire Chicago White Sox fanbase?

I think he owes the Sox fans an apology for the ridiculous statements he made before the game. My guess is tomorrow he will either apologize (or try to back-pedal) or he'll be fired. Should be a fun 24 hours.

But will the media, which generally likes Guillen because he provides great copy for them, even push for his firing? If this were New York or Philadelphia, as someone pointed out, Guillen would be finished. But here in Chicago, he gets a free pass from most of the media.

Brian26
05-29-2011, 05:56 PM
But will the media, which generally likes Guillen because he provides great copy for them, even push for his firing? If this were New York or Philadelphia, as someone pointed out, Guillen would be finished. But here in Chicago, he gets a free pass from most of the media.

My guess is that tonight he'll be given a choice to retract his comments or be fired. Tomorrow he'll probably have his tail between his legs and say he really didn't mean what he said. He will have to address the backlash one way or another.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 06:02 PM
My guess is that tonight he'll be given a choice to retract his comments or be fired. Tomorrow he'll probably have his tail between his legs and say he really didn't mean what he said. He will have to address the backlash one way or another.

Has there even been a backlash (beyond WSI)? I was listening to a portion of Matt Abbattacola's show after the game, and he wasn't giving a fire and brimstone "OZZIE MUST GO!!!" rant. I bet KW and JR don't say one thing to Guillen about it.

miker
05-29-2011, 06:07 PM
But will the media, which generally likes Guillen because he provides great copy for them, even push for his firing? If this were New York or Philadelphia, as someone pointed out, Guillen would be finished. But here in Chicago, he gets a free pass from most of the media.

Exactly. He could go full "Lee Elia" and might get away with it.

southside rocks
05-29-2011, 06:37 PM
Has there even been a backlash (beyond WSI)? I was listening to a portion of Matt Abbattacola's show after the game, and he wasn't giving a fire and brimstone "OZZIE MUST GO!!!" rant. I bet KW and JR don't say one thing to Guillen about it.

I listened to the first bit of MA's show and you're right, there was no anti-Ozzie tone to it. In fact, MA said that he thought Ozzie is a good manager and did not think he should be fired.

I'm not in favor of firing Ozzie, I'm on record saying I want to see the non-producing players to be shown the door first. I feel sorry for Ozzie, because I believe that he does still care about this team. Which I don't. Adam Dunn has killed my enthusiasm for the 2011 Chicago White Sox, and Alex Rios and John Danks have helped him.

Brian26
05-29-2011, 07:00 PM
Has there even been a backlash (beyond WSI)? I was listening to a portion of Matt Abbattacola's show after the game, and he wasn't giving a fire and brimstone "OZZIE MUST GO!!!" rant. I bet KW and JR don't say one thing to Guillen about it.

Honestly, I don't think the guys on the Score had picked up the story as of the post-game. A caller called Zach Zaidman (who was filling in for Rongey) and mentioned Ozzie's comments about the fans, and Zaidman went back to what was said last night.

tstrike2000
05-29-2011, 07:01 PM
The wheelchair comment in particular was silly and dumb. 7 years of this crap is old and tired. Time for something else.

DumpJerry
05-29-2011, 07:02 PM
Has there even been a backlash (beyond WSI)? I was listening to a portion of Matt Abbattacola's show after the game, and he wasn't giving a fire and brimstone "OZZIE MUST GO!!!" rant. I bet KW and JR don't say one thing to Guillen about it.
Abbattacola is a bigger Cub fan than Ronnie Woo Woo. I don't listen to him when it comes to anything about the White Sox.

Mohoney
05-29-2011, 07:05 PM
There are many ways to voice your displeasure with the team's performance, best of all to just stop watching/going to games.

Or, maybe we DON'T let this prick hijack our franchise and deprive us of our fandom.

Come on, JR. Do the right thing and can him.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 07:47 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
Thas bull crap what the media print today about celular field and the fans

11 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000109720535040) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

DirtySox
05-29-2011, 07:49 PM
Time for some back-pedaling.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 07:50 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
The should print and said everything I said thas low blow and imrresponsable no clas

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000440844058625) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
Bunch a crap

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000625380859904) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
No mention any fans and alcohol

16 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000998900404224) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 07:51 PM
Time for some back-pedaling.

Exactly what I was thinking.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 07:51 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
The should print and said everything I said thas low blow and imrresponsable no clas

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000440844058625) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
Bunch a crap

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000625380859904) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
No mention any fans and alcohol

16 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000998900404224) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

So they just made up you said that? Ray Small style? Right, Ozzie. Go away.

Over By There
05-29-2011, 07:52 PM
So "mis-quoted" is what he's going with? :rolleyes:

daveeym
05-29-2011, 07:54 PM
So "mis-quoted" is what he's going with? :rolleyes:

They must have left out the part where he was talking about cubs fans. He was really saying that about them and was trying to say they deserve a team like ours not our smart fans. :cool:

Dan H
05-29-2011, 07:56 PM
On the otherhand, is Guillen ignorant enough to think that a dozen drunks at the game are representative of the entire Chicago White Sox fanbase?

I think he owes the Sox fans an apology for the ridiculous statements he made before the game. My guess is tomorrow he will either apologize (or try to back-pedal) or he'll be fired. Should be a fun 24 hours.

He does owe the fans an apology, but I don't care if he gives one or not. Sox fans have been bashed for years by a variety of sources which include the media. I have now become almost numb to it and expect little support from anyone. The most important question is this: As one poster here surmised, has the team quit on Guillen? If it has, the decision has been made for the organization.

soxinem1
05-29-2011, 07:56 PM
So "mis-quoted" is what he's going with? :rolleyes:

No, mis-interpreted. :D:

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 07:56 PM
So "mis-quoted" is what he's going with? :rolleyes:

Unless Ozzie was talking to one reporter, this should all be cleared up real soon.

Ozzie could very well be on his way out soon.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Unless Ozzie was talking to one reporter, this should all be cleared up real soon.

Ozzie could very well be on his way out soon.

I'm not getting my hopes up.

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 07:59 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
I have the enterviu on tape I whish I can sue then thas a very low blow

11 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75003333018001408) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

JermaineDye05
05-29-2011, 08:09 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
What a hell I going to say bad thing about white sox fan they are behind me all my carrer a less most of then

14 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75005662643503105) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

SI1020
05-29-2011, 08:15 PM
Don't really get this at all.

The fans are perceiving bad baseball. Its not unrealistic to expect good baseball, seeing that the owner has sunk $127 million into payroll and into a team that is in one of the largest markets in the country.

I think the ownership/management, etc. have it easy here in Chicago..if this team/ownership/management was on the East Coast they would be eviserated. That is so true.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 08:34 PM
Well Comcast Sports Chicago played the tape on the postgame, Mark Gonzales of the Tribune has a story about it on the web site directly quoting him.

Sounds to me like he said it to more than one person. I guess they all got it wrong what he was saying.

:rolleyes:

Lip

A. Cavatica
05-29-2011, 08:50 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
What a hell I going to say bad thing about white sox fan they are behind me all my carrer a less most of then

14 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75005662643503105) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)


Ozzie, I loved watching you field your position.

Your batting and managing skills, not so much.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2011, 09:27 PM
I understand the Tribune sports department higher-ups listened tonight to the tape of Ozzie's rant and said that Gonzo's story on it where he quoted him was accurate and he didn't leave anything out in an effort to hurt him.

Somebody is apparently lying here, either Ozzie for claiming he was misquoted or the Tribune.

Lip

Brian26
05-29-2011, 09:41 PM
My guess is that tonight he'll be given a choice to retract his comments or be fired. Tomorrow he'll probably have his tail between his legs and say he really didn't mean what he said. He will have to address the backlash one way or another.

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
The should print and said everything I said thas low blow and imrresponsable no clas

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000440844058625) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
Bunch a crap

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000625380859904) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
No mention any fans and alcohol

16 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000998900404224) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

:hawk
"Well, that didn't take long."

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 10:17 PM
So "mis-quoted" is what he's going with? :rolleyes:

:reinsy
"That's Ozzie's story and we're sticking with it."

nccwsfan
05-29-2011, 10:20 PM
:hawk
"Well, that didn't take long."

Has any of this hit the national sports pages/blogs? Specifically the rant on the fans? Until that happens and this story gets legs to it it'll be a minor flap at best. If it becomes a national story it would likely have a different outcome...

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 10:22 PM
The media is in with Ozzie too much, and that is the moat around him.

Viva Medias B's
05-29-2011, 10:30 PM
Has any of this hit the national sports pages/blogs? Specifically the rant on the fans? Until that happens and this story gets legs to it it'll be a minor flap at best. If it becomes a national story it would likely have a different outcome...

Actually, SportsCenter has "GUILLEN FIRED UP" on its scroll. I wonder how this will be presented.

GoSox2K3
05-30-2011, 12:11 AM
Actually, SportsCenter has "GUILLEN FIRED UP" on its scroll. I wonder how this will be presented.

Too bad this included the word "up".

ZombieRob
05-30-2011, 12:36 AM
http://thedeafsage.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ozzie-guillen-caricature.jpg?w=430&h=430

"He's the Hispanic version of Jackie Mason" According to J.R

GoSox4
05-30-2011, 01:13 AM
Can we still trade Ozzie?

kufram
05-30-2011, 03:22 AM
I'm not sure how big of a deal this is. If I were one of the fans I think Ozzie is alledgedly talking about I'd be pissed. I'm not. I give Ozzie a lot of credit for the good times... obviously 2005. He didn't make a bad move all year. He had a great team to manage, true. I also don't think Ozzie has avoided taking responsibility for the bad times... most of the time. I'm glad that he is calling out the players now.

What is a little rich is how some people think it is ok for them to post insulting and sometimes vicious rants against coaches, players, management, scouting, etc. behind an internet persona but those targets are not allowed to respond. Ozzie is a media person and probably was a little frustrated and stupid at the time of this interview. But he certainly has the right to say anything he wants just like everybody here does.

I now believe Ozzie should quit at the end of the year, or get fired (whatever is best for the team) but also I believe others should go too. I'd like to see them stop signing lumbering, one dimensional players because they can hit a few home runs but do little else. I'd like to see us build a team with baseball players... guys who actually can do the little things. I'd take a Michael Young over an Adam Dunn even if Dunn is hitting. I'd also like to get a manager that knows the game better and demands that the players be more rounded and complete. And I'd like spring training to be that... spring training, not spring we'll be ready on opening day.

southside rocks
05-30-2011, 06:02 AM
Once again, attention is all on the manager and not on the pathetically underperforming players who are not earning their quite hefty salaries. Nobody, apparently, can figure out what to do about the waste of space that is Adam Dunn this year, but everybody can react to Ozzie's ranting. :rolleyes: But Dunn, Rios, Pierre, et al., have cost the team more games this year than Ozzie Guillen has.

Anger is easy but if Ozzie goes and the roster stays intact, this will still be a sub-.500 ballclub.

Dan H
05-30-2011, 07:57 AM
Once again, attention is all on the manager and not on the pathetically underperforming players who are not earning their quite hefty salaries. Nobody, apparently, can figure out what to do about the waste of space that is Adam Dunn this year, but everybody can react to Ozzie's ranting. :rolleyes: But Dunn, Rios, Pierre, et al., have cost the team more games this year than Ozzie Guillen has.

Anger is easy but if Ozzie goes and the roster stays intact, this will still be a sub-.500 ballclub.

I can't argue with with your assessment of the under-performing club. The players are the most responsible. However, Ozzie is getting the attention now because he opened his mouth.

You may also be right that the team will remain under .500 without Ozzie. I am willing to take my chances.

southside rocks
05-30-2011, 08:21 AM
The question is, is JR willing to take that chance?

Last season when Lou Piniella quit on the Cubs and they put Mike Quade in as manager, the team came alive and played quite respectably. As a direct result, Quade was given the managerial position. This year, the Cubs are the Cubs again: burdened with bloated, terrible contracts on washed-up players, youngsters who can't stay healthy, and pitchers who seem to define 'erratic', they're a mediocre-at-best team.

The manager makes a difference, but it would be akin to spinning straw into gold for any manager to take the 2011 White Sox roster and get them to play like the 2011 Cleveland Indians.

I'm worried about not just this year but the next few years, with some of the contracts on the non-performing players that the Sox took.

Viva Medias B's
05-30-2011, 08:38 AM
One thing Ozzie Guillen's antics have done is take the heat off of Kenny Williams, though KW does not escape our heat. As predicted, the local media is making no big deal whatsoever about this latest Ozzie tirade. This morning, Pat Tomasulo on WGN-Channel 9 was making rather not-so-appropriate fun of the grammatical aspects of Guillen's tweets. But I don't think any media member has come out and called for Guillen's ouster. I think the media is afraid of Ozzie.

Dan H
05-30-2011, 09:10 AM
The question is, is JR willing to take that chance?

Last season when Lou Piniella quit on the Cubs and they put Mike Quade in as manager, the team came alive and played quite respectably. As a direct result, Quade was given the managerial position. This year, the Cubs are the Cubs again: burdened with bloated, terrible contracts on washed-up players, youngsters who can't stay healthy, and pitchers who seem to define 'erratic', they're a mediocre-at-best team.

The manager makes a difference, but it would be akin to spinning straw into gold for any manager to take the 2011 White Sox roster and get them to play like the 2011 Cleveland Indians.

I'm worried about not just this year but the next few years, with some of the contracts on the non-performing players that the Sox took.

I can't argue with your points here. This is bigger than just Ozzie Guillen, and I'm worried about the future, too. However, this is a franchise that has had fan alienation problems big time. Guillen, for one thing, is not a good manager. Secondly, he went way too far in this rant. If the team ignores this or tries to sweep it under the rug, it will show its contempt for its fans. Again.

tstrike2000
05-30-2011, 09:11 AM
Wonder if he'll go off even more when they get swept in Boston.

daveeym
05-30-2011, 09:21 AM
espn has a front page article and video of the sound although it ends before he rips the fans. It's followed up on whether he should be fired. So it's making some noise now.

kevingrt
05-30-2011, 09:27 AM
One thing Ozzie Guillen's antics have done is take the heat off of Kenny Williams, though KW does not escape our heat. As predicted, the local media is making no big deal whatsoever about this latest Ozzie tirade. This morning, Pat Tomasulo on WGN-Channel 9 was making rather not-so-appropriate fun of the grammatical aspects of Guillen's tweets. But I don't think any media member has come out and called for Guillen's ouster. I think the media is afraid of Ozzie.

I wouldn't say the media is afraid of Ozzie, but they know how great of quotes he gives out. And they know they wil always have a story if he is a coach in this town. He is a goldmine for reporters and other media members. He's due to go off 10+ times a year and consumers love to read and hear about it when he goes off.

harwar
05-30-2011, 09:52 AM
there's an old Fleetwood Mac song that says "players only love you when they're playing" .. that fits pretty well in all forms of entertainment (including baseball) it also goes both ways, as fans only love you when you're winning .. that is just a fact of life and Ozzie knows this but it apparently drives him up a wall whenever he reads a negative comment about him or his team .. he has to have at least some contact with the media but it seems to me that a person with his emotional makeup and in the position that he finds himself in right now,should probably just stay away from reading or listening to what is said about him and his team as much as possible and just do his job

russ99
05-30-2011, 09:58 AM
3 years, 3 trips to Toronto, 3 Ozzie tirades. Any one else think that this isn't a coincidence?

Ozzie's pulled everything out of his bag of tricks to get this team on track, so maybe this will work again.

Domeshot17
05-30-2011, 10:09 AM
3 years, 3 trips to Toronto, 3 Ozzie tirades. Any one else think that this isn't a coincidence?

Ozzie's pulled everything out of his bag of tricks to get this team on track, so maybe this will work again.

Yup, that's it, this was all just a calculated move.

TomBradley72
05-30-2011, 10:14 AM
3 years, 3 trips to Toronto, 3 Ozzie tirades. Any one else think that this isn't a coincidence?

Ozzie's pulled everything out of his bag of tricks to get this team on track, so maybe this will work again.

Well at least there are no reports of a blow up sex doll in the locker room-

billcissell
05-30-2011, 10:16 AM
The Blizzard is frustrated and needs to focus on righting the ship, not looking around for someone or something to blame.

His twitter rants make no sense, and he starts backtracking and claiming he never said this and that. The LAST ones he should be ripping are the Sox fans, who have stuck by this franchise through thick and thin, LONG before this clown ever came on board in 1984.

The offense stinks, starting with Dung and Rios. Not far behind are Beckham and AJ. We can't throw anyone out who tries to steal on us, we rarely steal ourselves, don't know how to bunt, make mental mistakes on defense and have occasional lapses in the bullpen.

We're well below .500 and show little sign of making a recovery in time to catch Cleveland.

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe Guillen needs to step aside, because this team just doesn't seem to respond to him any longer.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 11:49 AM
Since Ozzie's tweets last night were cleared through the White Sox (according to the newspaper today) you can assume that once again Ozzie isn't going anywhere despite his arrogant stupidity.

Have been in touch with some media friends today who are shocked over what Ozzie did yesterday. They like Ozzie but are a little ticked off that he's saying he wasn't quoted properly.

He was quoted EXACTLY and now is trying to duck from his comments. This from the guy who tells everyone how tough he is.

Pretty poor example of being tough Oz, you said it, at least have the gonads to stand by what you said.

Lip

EnglishChiSox
05-30-2011, 12:04 PM
This no longer just about how bad the team. Ozzie has made it personal, he has shown himself to be an ass and the draft is soon. Who is going to want to play for a manager who throws everyone under the bus?/

BainesHOF
05-30-2011, 12:12 PM
Since Ozzie's tweets last night were cleared through the White Sox (according to the newspaper today)

That's hard to believe. One, his Tweets read like they're written by an illiterate. I'm not sure why the team would ever approve them. They're an embarrassment. Two, the one saying he didn't mention fans is a blatant lie.

HaroMaster87
05-30-2011, 12:23 PM
He's doing exactly what he always does we things are going bad. Directing the criticism on him instead of his horrible team...just ignore the guy, geez. Who the **** cares what he says? Cmon guys, this **** is all on the players. Ozzie doesn't hit, field or throw anymore.

This team sucks...

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 12:57 PM
Haro:

Ozzie is the "face" of the franchise. The face needs to be cleaned up. True Ozzie doesn't hit field or throw...he just puts the players in a position to do so and by all accounts he is not giving them the best opportunity.

Baines:

By being approved I don't mean the wording or spelling, I mean the fact that the Sox organization apparently said it was fine to come out and say he was misquoted. (which does not appear to be the case.)

Ozzie is now a liability for this organization in my opinion.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 01:45 PM
I just received a copy off a e-mail reply from one of the fans here at WSI from Brooks. It was a long, thoughtful, honest response.

I give Brooks credit for taking the time to communicate with the fan in detail, I didn't agree with everything he wrote but again, Brooks, Bob Grim a lot of the front office are stand up guys.

The bigger point to me is that for Brooks to take the time to answer on a holiday seems to indicate that the **** was hitting the fan in the front office yesterday.

Ultimately what the result of all this will be is unknown. My sense, and this is simply my gut talking, is that Ozzie's using up his nine lives rapidly. Unless the team quits on him, nothing will happen during the season...but in the off season? That's a different animal.

The "crux" of Ozzie's "defense" for what he said is that he has passion and is frustrated. I understand that, however that doesn't give him the right to act like a fool, insulting the folks who are making it possible for him to collect his salary. That's simply bad judgment. Makes you wonder about his thought processes when he's making decisions on the field.

I have passion for things too, but common sense makes me think twice before doing or saying certain things.

That appears to be a difficult concept for Ozzie to grasp and its getting old.

Lip

Over By There
05-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Lip, not sure if it was the response he sent me, but he did respond to my note with a long and thoughtful reply. I didn't agree with all of what he said, but I appreciated him taking the time to respond on a holiday weekend. I didn't post the response here out of respect to Brooks.

SI1020
05-30-2011, 01:57 PM
Unless the team quits on him, nothing will happen during the season...but in the off season? That's a different animal.
It appears to me at least some of them already have for quite some time.

tstrike2000
05-30-2011, 02:00 PM
I just received a copy off a e-mail reply from one of the fans here at WSI from Brooks. It was a long, thoughtful, honest response.

I give Brooks credit for taking the time to communicate with the fan in detail, I didn't agree with everything he wrote but again, Brooks, Bob Grim a lot of the front office are stand up guys.

The bigger point to me is that for Brooks to take the time to answer on a holiday seems to indicate that the **** was hitting the fan in the front office yesterday.

Ultimately what the result of all this will be is unknown. My sense, and this is simply my gut talking, is that Ozzie's using up his nine lives rapidly. Unless the team quits on him, nothing will happen during the season...but in the off season? That's a different animal.

The "crux" of Ozzie's "defense" for what he said is that he has passion and is frustrated. I understand that however that doesn't give him the right to act like a fool, insulting the folks who are making it possible for him to collect his salary. That's simply bad judgment. Makes you wonder about his thought processes when he's making decisions on the field.

I have passion for things too, but common sense makes me think twice before doing or saying certain things.

That appears to be a difficult concept for Ozzie to grasp and its getting old.

Lip

Been old for a very long time.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 02:20 PM
Over:

No this was a different person who sent it to me to see.

Lip

KingXerxes
05-30-2011, 02:43 PM
It is almost impossible for me to take any interest in this team - or baseball in general - these days because of assinine players and managers that make assinine comments like Guillen did yesterday.

Fans don't remember? Is he smoking dope? He's not asking for fans to remember, he's asking for fans to be starry eyed automatons who will gladly eat a plate of crap when it is served up because the overpaid waiter serving it up once had a measure of success in the past.

My God Almighty these guys are making millions per year to put on a uniform and play baseball - and the only reason they're able to do that is because they were fortunate enough to basically be freaks of nature who can throw a ball at 95 mph, or run a 4.2 forty yard dash, or have the reflexes of a CRAY computer with a personality so one dimensional you wouldn't want them to do anything but play baseball. Everything that's ever happened to them in life regarding baseball - from birth on - has been nothing but one good break after another, and yet we're treated to droning whining from a guy like Guillen.

I don't give a damn how frustrated Guillen is, and I don't give a damn about how much Guillen cares - under NO circumstances do you ever bite the hand that feeds you, yet he seems to do it with impugnity. The sad part is he's not alone in this endless conga line of overpaid and pampered spoiled brats.

:hawk

"Mercy.........I know y'all are havin' a problem with ol' Ozzie, but stick around this game as long as I do, and you'll see a whole heap of fans who didn't remember. Dadgummit it's because of all these crappy fans that American League baseball isn't played in St. Louis, Philadelphia or Washington..............I know Ed......I know........twice with Washington. Same with the the National League with Boston, Brooklyn. Bad fans.

Yessir - stick around this game long enough, and you'll see that Boston, St. Louis, Philadelphia and New York have some of the worst fans in baseball. I don't blame Ozzie."

Brian26
05-30-2011, 03:41 PM
I give Brooks credit for taking the time to communicate with the fan in detail, I didn't agree with everything he wrote but again, Brooks, Bob Grim a lot of the front office are stand up guys.

The bigger point to me is that for Brooks to take the time to answer on a holiday seems to indicate that the **** was hitting the fan in the front office yesterday.

I didn't see this posted here, but I may have missed it.

Doug Padilla has a piece that was posted about an hour ago. Ozzie is claiming his comments were directed at sportstalk show hosts.

Also, the White Sox sent a press release out last night to the AP to address this. Wow.

The White Sox sent a statement to the Associated Press on Sunday night and in it, Guillen pleaded for people to listen to the entire conversation or read a transcript and “they will see my comments were not directed as criticism of White Sox fans." Judge for yourselves (questions in parenthesis):http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/5243/fans-werent-the-object-of-ozzies-ire

Ok, does this quote seem directed at sportalk radio hosts?

Are they going to feel sorry if we’re going to get fired? [Heck] no. They only remember 2005 team. In 2020 when we come here in a wheelchair, oh yeah, thank you. As soon as you leave the ballpark they don’t care about you anymore. They don’t. The monuments, the statues they have for you they pee on it when they are drunk. That’s what they do. Oh god, thank you for coming for 30 minutes for all the suffering you did all your life day in and day out.

A. Cavatica
05-30-2011, 03:51 PM
Ok, does this quote seem directed at sportalk radio hosts?

No.

soxinem1
05-30-2011, 04:08 PM
Ok, does this quote seem directed at sportalk radio hosts?

It sure doesn't and it is not the first time he has done this. I remember during the pending strike in 1994 he pulled his 'we don't owe the fans' anything line, and frankly I never forgot it.

Ozzie has been throwing everyone under the bus publicly for some time, except KW and JR...... and himself.

Say what you want about Jerry Manuel. His teams had far less all-around depth and talent than Ozzie's teams have had, yet the results are similar. Manuel had three straight years in which they left spring training without five legit starting pitchers yet still had the team playing competitively when all was said and done.

And he never threw his team or anyone to the wolves like Ozzie does. He sure was not one of the best managers I ever saw, but he did what he could with what he had. So did Torborg, and so did Fregosi.

They also showed something Ozzie has never been able to exhibit: class.

Take a page from your predecessors Ozzie and eat some humble pie at least once in awhile.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 04:08 PM
Agreed. Ozzie was blasting the fans pure and simple. Hey "macho-man" have the stones to stand behind what you said, right or wrong.

Weak Ozzie, what you are doing is ****ing weak.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 04:11 PM
Soxinem1:

Ozzie's comments were in 1995 and he had a very good reason. It was after the strike, the Sox were playing in Toronto and some fans were directing racial taunts towards Frank Thomas. Ozzie heard them and went off.

In that case completely justified.

Lip

Scottiehaswheels
05-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Is pissing on a statue better or worse than pissing close to half a billion dollars down the drain in 5 years?

KingXerxes
05-30-2011, 04:30 PM
Agreed. Ozzie was blasting the fans pure and simple. Hey "macho-man" have the stones to stand behind what you said, right or wrong.

Weak Ozzie, what you are doing is ****ing weak.

Lip


Agreed Lip (unless, of course, talk radio hosts have a habit of getting drunk and urinating on statues after games).

The fact that they're hauling out an army of spinmeisters says something about what his employers think of the fans as well.

Lip Man 1
05-30-2011, 04:58 PM
King:

I don't automatically make that assumption. Guys like Brooks, Scott etc have no say in the on field decisions. Obviously Ozzie isn't going to get fired over this or JR would have already cut him loose so they are doing the best job they can to try to get fans to come out the rest of the season.

That's kind of their job.

It's a shame though that they have to be called on in the first place to 'defend' Ozzie over his stupidity.

I'd absolutely be willing to give him a pass if this was the first time...but it's not. Remember the "I'm the ****ing manager and I make out the lineup card." Or how about the "if Sox fans don't like it they can stay home and not watch." (I'm sure the promotions, ticketing and marketing departments LOVED that one.)

Ozzie no longer has any real usefulness to this organization. If he was winning that's one thing but he isn't and he's become a ****ing joke.

And remember (feel free to look through the boards) I was a strong defender of Ozzie until the past few weeks.

Lip

khan
05-30-2011, 05:26 PM
I say keep Ozzie. This recent minor comment [which has been mis-construed as a "rant"] means nothing, and his tweets appear to be well-thought and well-written.

In fact, I agree with Ozzie:

We SHOULD blame the fans for everything that goes wrong with the White Sox. After all, we "don't care about [those millionaires] once we leave the park."


Meanwhile, I'm sure that Ozzie, and ALL those millionaires that play a child's game for a living lose hours of sleep thinking about the fans that are having a hard time in an economy like today's. I'm sure they're up day and night thinking about us.


So let's cut them a break, right?

JermaineDye05
05-30-2011, 05:32 PM
I say keep Ozzie. This recent minor comment [which has been mis-construed as a "rant"] means nothing, and his tweets appear to be well-thought and well-written.

In fact, I agree with Ozzie:

We SHOULD blame the fans for everything that goes wrong with the White Sox. After all, we "don't care about [those millionaires] once we leave the park."


Meanwhile, I'm sure that Ozzie, and ALL those millionaires that play a child's game for a living lose hours of sleep thinking about the fans that are having a hard time in an economy like today's. I'm sure they're up day and night thinking about us.


So let's cut them a break, right?

What school did you go to?

EDIT: I stopped at well-written. My mistake.

khan
05-30-2011, 05:36 PM
What school did you go to?

EDIT: I stopped at well-written. My mistake.

Look, someone has to take his side, right?

The ozzpologists have disappeared for some reason, so I thought I'd take up their cause.


Keep Ozzie. Blame yourself, fans. Or better yet: Don't show up at the ballpark.

RANDY WILES
05-30-2011, 05:36 PM
The Blizzard is frustrated and needs to focus on righting the ship, not looking around for someone or something to blame.

His twitter rants make no sense, and he starts backtracking and claiming he never said this and that. The LAST ones he should be ripping are the Sox fans, who have stuck by this franchise through thick and thin, LONG before this clown ever came on board in 1984.

The offense stinks, starting with Dung and Rios. Not far behind are Beckham and AJ. We can't throw anyone out who tries to steal on us, we rarely steal ourselves, don't know how to bunt, make mental mistakes on defense and have occasional lapses in the bullpen.

We're well below .500 and show little sign of making a recovery in time to catch Cleveland.

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe Guillen needs to step aside, because this team just doesn't seem to respond to him any longer.

This, in my opinion. is a pretty good summation. Ozzie needs to be fired, regardless of his managerial abilities----this is just not behavior acceptable to the organization, the city, or the fanbase.

kittle42
05-30-2011, 06:16 PM
3 years, 3 trips to Toronto, 3 Ozzie tirades. Any one else think that this isn't a coincidence?

Ozzie's pulled everything out of his bag of tricks to get this team on track, so maybe this will work again.

I have to admit - at this point, I'll be extra happy when Guillen is gone.

kittle42
05-30-2011, 06:17 PM
Also, Ozzie, you're lucky you don't manage in a city that is actually used to winning....in NY, they forget about the championship win about 10 minutes after the parade. You've gotten the better part of 5+ years.

Dan H
05-30-2011, 06:27 PM
If the Ozzeroo doesn't get fired, he should at least get suspended for a game or two. There is no spin to this. If the White Sox try to sweep this under the rug, it will only show they think next to nothing about the fans. And bad PR is the last thing this team needs when it is blowing its season.

Regardless, Guillen will have no credibility in this town. World Series or no World Series, Guillen can take his place next to Terry Bevington.

CLR01
05-30-2011, 06:53 PM
We should build a statue of Ozzie.

ode to veeck
05-30-2011, 07:05 PM
We should build a statue of Ozzie.

It would have to have an audio pull string that played random tirades against everything in the universe with plenty of expletives.

Brian26
05-30-2011, 07:09 PM
we should build a statue of ozzie.

potw

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2011, 07:30 PM
We should build a statue of Ozzie.

I hope they include a drain for all the fans' piss.

SI1020
05-30-2011, 07:35 PM
3 years, 3 trips to Toronto, 3 Ozzie tirades. Any one else think that this isn't a coincidence?

Ozzie's pulled everything out of his bag of tricks to get this team on track, so maybe this will work again. Hilarious.

Brian26
05-30-2011, 07:40 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/5251/a-day-later-guillens-anger-subsides

Ozzie "slept well" last night and has put this behind him.

Viva Medias B's
05-30-2011, 07:58 PM
Agreed Lip (unless, of course, talk radio hosts have a habit of getting drunk and urinating on statues after games).

The fact that they're hauling out an army of spinmeisters says something about what his employers think of the fans as well.

Can you imagine a drunken Terry Boers relieving himself upon Chuck Comiskey? Or a drunken Murph going on the Harry statue on the North Side?

Danryan
05-30-2011, 08:13 PM
I can't believe the people on this board are so sensitive they actually are calling for Ozzie's job. This last rant was one of the more mild ones I've heard. I personally have enjoyed most of his rants, which have been very entertaining. I don't think anybody has stopped going to games because of what Ozzie has ever said. Unless you've actually peed on the WS monument you shouldn't be phased. Many in the press and here are using his comments to pursue their agenda of getting him fired. On the other hand, many will not go because the team is playing poorly. If Ozzie is fired because he can't manage anymore or the team needs a change so be it.

tstrike2000
05-30-2011, 08:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/5251/a-day-later-guillens-anger-subsides

Ozzie "slept well" last night and has put this behind him.

When you're a class act like Ozzie is, you sleep like a baby after spewing garbage in two postgame interviews.

Danryan
05-30-2011, 08:24 PM
OH please.

DSpivack
05-30-2011, 08:44 PM
I can't believe the people on this board are so sensitive they actually are calling for Ozzie's job. This last rant was one of the more mild ones I've heard. I personally have enjoyed most of his rants, which have been very entertaining. I don't think anybody has stopped going to games because of what Ozzie has ever said. Unless you've actually peed on the WS monument you shouldn't be phased. Many in the press and here are using his comments to pursue their agenda of getting him fired. On the other hand, many will not go because the team is playing poorly. If Ozzie is fired because he can't manage anymore or the team needs a change so be it.

I don't want Ozzie fired because I took offense to his comments. I want him fired because I think he's become a bad manager and has lost his team.

Hitmen77
05-30-2011, 08:52 PM
@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
The should print and said everything I said thas low blow and imrresponsable no clas

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000440844058625) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
Bunch a crap

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000625380859904) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

@OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen) Ozzie Guillen
No mention any fans and alcohol

16 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/OzzieGuillen/status/75000998900404224) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071107060005/simpsons/images/thumb/9/97/Cook.jpg/200px-Cook.jpg (http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/9/97/Cook.jpg)
"I only-a consider you scum compared-a to Krusty.......Yeah, you see how you scum."

Danryan
05-30-2011, 08:59 PM
DSpivack ,

I respect that opinion. Although I don't agree.

russ99
05-30-2011, 09:13 PM
Hilarious.

Just as hilarious as the clowns on this board who have long wanted Ozzie fired, many for non-baseball reasons, who are looking for any excuse, no matter how weak.

But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again...

SI1020
05-30-2011, 09:19 PM
Just as hilarious as the clowns on this board who have long wanted Ozzie fired, many for non-baseball reasons, who are looking for any excuse, no matter how weak.

But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again... It isn't a witch hunt. If and when it comes it will be a long long overdue firing.

tstrike2000
05-30-2011, 09:31 PM
Just as hilarious as the clowns on this board who have long wanted Ozzie fired, many for non-baseball reasons, who are looking for any excuse, no matter how weak.

But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again...

Well, many of the "clowns" on this board could very easily label you as such for defending him. If these bad stretches continue, you can't fire the players, so something would eventually have to be done and these kinds of postgame interviews Ozzie gives don't do him any favors.

GoGoCrede
05-30-2011, 09:39 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/5251/a-day-later-guillens-anger-subsides

Ozzie "slept well" last night and has put this behind him.

Figured as much...I would honestly be surprised if he was fired, whether he should be or not. It's not even the first or second time he's talked about the fans.

kittle42
05-30-2011, 11:37 PM
But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again...

So you are fine with witch hunts as long as Adam Dunn is the target?

RowanDye
05-30-2011, 11:53 PM
Just as hilarious as the clowns on this board who have long wanted Ozzie fired, many for non-baseball reasons, who are looking for any excuse, no matter how weak.

But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again...


They don't know what it's like on the other side of mediocrity. It's change for change sake.

On the other hand, this organization is quickly driving its fanbase to insanity by "doing the same thing and expecting different results".

An entire book could be written about Kenny Williams turbulent affairs with left-handed power hitters.

kufram
05-31-2011, 04:16 AM
Wonder if he'll go off even more when they get swept in Boston.


We'll never know, eh?

PeteWard
05-31-2011, 04:43 AM
Wonder if he'll go off even more when they get swept in Boston.

Care to try again?

GoGoCrede
05-31-2011, 09:25 AM
Patrick:

There's an old saying in business, perhaps you've heard of it, "the customer is always right..."

Owners of businesses or baseball teams may not like to have to deal with some folks who clearly cross the line but even so it's not a good policy to insult those who are enabling you to make millions of dollars.

Generally that comes back to bite you on the ass eventually.

Now speaking with folks in the front office over the years and dealing with individuals personally when I've gone to games I can tell you that whatever else JR may be he understands the business policy that I quoted in the first sentence. He simply does not tolerate fans being treated badly.

Fans are encouraged to call, write, speak their mind anytime they have a bad experience at the ballpark. Folks in the front office are expected to respond to complaints, comments etc.

That's why I am surprised JR allows Ozzie to get away with some of the things he has been saying. It seems very out of character for him to do so. Granted there may be things going on behind the scenes that I don't know about that may explain why things are being allowed to continue.

Regarding Ozzie's coments about his "passion." Passion is a good thing but just because you have passion doesn't mean you are doing the right thing or doing the job properly.

Lip

I'm wondering how many of the offline fans actually read or care about Ozzie's comments. I know many on here are upset, but in the end it's a somewhat small number (albeit many season ticket holders and people who probably go to more games than your average fan). I don't know if Ozzie being canned will have too much of an effect on people. Hell, I think he's still fairly popular with the casual fan (of course, the casual fan may drop off, while the hardcore ones will keep going to games year after year).

I'd be interested to know what the average offline fan thinks of all this.

GoSox2K3
05-31-2011, 09:58 AM
Just as hilarious as the clowns on this board who have long wanted Ozzie fired, many for non-baseball reasons, who are looking for any excuse, no matter how weak.

But go ahead, tell me this isn't a witch hunt again...

When your position is laughably indefensible, just call people on WSI a bunch of clowns!:party:

Now excuse me while I go pee on a statue.

tstrike2000
05-31-2011, 10:01 AM
We'll never know, eh?

Care to try again?

They won what, one game in Boston? Big deal. The offense is still bad. It was a really nice win, but they need to keep it going and at least take 2 of 3.

kufram
05-31-2011, 10:36 AM
They won what, one game in Boston? Big deal. The offense is still bad. It was a really nice win, but they need to keep it going and at least take 2 of 3.

Yes, they won one game and, yes, it was a pretty big deal to me because some posters here were saying that they hoped the team would lose all three in Boston to help chase Ozzie out. They beat a very good pitcher the day after all of the "turmoil" of the thousands of fans offended by Ozzie's statements.

The offense is still bad but that doesn't mean they can't come good. Nice wins are rare at the moment so every one is a big deal to me. Sorry it isn't enough for you. I hope we'd both like to see another good win tonight.

tstrike2000
05-31-2011, 10:50 AM
Yes, they won one game and, yes, it was a pretty big deal to me because some posters here were saying that they hoped the team would lose all three in Boston to help chase Ozzie out. They beat a very good pitcher the day after all of the "turmoil" of the thousands of fans offended by Ozzie's statements.

The offense is still bad but that doesn't mean they can't come good. Nice wins are rare at the moment so every one is a big deal to me. Sorry it isn't enough for you. I hope we'd both like to see another good win tonight.

Relax, take a deep breath. The Sox finally played like they're capable of last night, and yes, it's eye opening because of how they've played lately while getting a win against a very well-rounded Boston team. But so much of the time this season, the Sox follow up a nice win with several games of garbage and really dumb mental mistakes. We're all tired of seeing it, but the Sox need to prove that they can once again win. In the end, all of us here want them to win and win often.

And the Ozzie situation is a different subject altogether. Yes, when the Sox are losing, fans get more impatient with the manager. However, as pointed out many times, there's many other things to be critical of Ozzie on outside of when the Sox are losing.

russ99
05-31-2011, 10:53 AM
I'm wondering how many of the offline fans actually read or care about Ozzie's comments. I know many on here are upset, but in the end it's a somewhat small number (albeit many season ticket holders and people who probably go to more games than your average fan). I don't know if Ozzie being canned will have too much of an effect on people. Hell, I think he's still fairly popular with the casual fan (of course, the casual fan may drop off, while the hardcore ones will keep going to games year after year).

I'd be interested to know what the average offline fan thinks of all this.

They had a poll on the pregame show yesterday (or Chicago Tribune Live) and keep Ozzie was something like 55% and fire Ozzie was 45%.

khan
05-31-2011, 10:54 AM
They had a poll on the pregame show yesterday (or Chicago Tribune Live) and keep Ozzie was something like 55% and fire Ozzie was 45%.

Well, that's enough for me!

Keep Ozzie.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2011, 11:08 AM
Russ:

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the guy who won a World Series was it?

Lip

GoGoCrede
05-31-2011, 11:18 AM
Russ:

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the guy who won a World Series was it?

Lip

It's still not as lopsided as it is here on WSI. Which is why I doubt he will be run out of town before the season ends.

The Immigrant
05-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Russ:

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the guy who won a World Series was it?

Lip

I was kind of surprised to see 55% in favor of keeping him given how dreadful the team has looked this year. If it wasn't for 2005 that number would probably be closer to 25%.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2011, 11:21 AM
GoGo:

I don't expect anything to happen before the end of the season myself since he hasn't already ben let go. Don't even know if anything will happen then but it should in my opinion.

And until the past few weeks I have been an Ozzie supporter.

Lip

GoGoCrede
05-31-2011, 11:21 AM
I was kind of surprised to see 55% in favor of keeping him given how dreadful the team has looked this year. If it wasn't for 2005 that number would probably be closer to 25%.

I agree. Given that he is one of the most recognizable figures on the team (and maybe in MLB?), it might just be sentimentality.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2011, 11:38 AM
By the way is anybody else shocked that nobody has heard a peep out of Oney through all this defending his dad?

Lip

GoGoCrede
05-31-2011, 11:38 AM
By the way is anybody else shocked that nobody has heard a peep out of Oney through all this defending his dad?

Lip

I'm sure he's dying to say something. Maybe someone is making him shut up.

SI1020
05-31-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm sure he's dying to say something. Maybe someone is making him shut up. If so, it's about time.

billcissell
05-31-2011, 11:58 AM
We all knew back when they hired Ozzie that eventually it would come to an end, and knowing his personality, it wouldn't be pretty.

I've supported him over the years despite those who have criticized his every move.

I'm tired of his senseless rants. And when he rips the fans, he's stepped over the line, in my opinion.

I recall an incident when he was a player. Sox lost a tough one and the Blizzard went beserk in the clubhouse, busting up a few tv sets. He made some kind of remark to the effect that "To hell with the fans. I make enough money and I'll pay to replace what I ruined. They can kiss my a@@"

This guy has a strange love/hate relationship with Sox fans. He seems to tolerate us, and understands that without fans there would be no baseball. And where would he be? Living in squalor down in Venezuela trying desperately to provide for his family and survive considering the oppressive political situation down there.

He can rip the league, the opposition, his own players, the front office. But don't bite the hand that feeds you. Sox fans have been tremendously supportive over the years. And they'll let you know how they feel. Take it like a man, and don't backtrack and deny things you said. Own up to it, apologize, and move on.

Mod Edit: You were fine until you had to add that last little shot. Please don't talk politics at WSI ever again. Go to www.wsiforums.com if you want to have political discussions.

soltrain21
05-31-2011, 11:59 AM
By the way is anybody else shocked that nobody has heard a peep out of Oney through all this defending his dad?

Lip

Best Buy moved him to the cash register so he doesn't have computer access anymore.

kufram
05-31-2011, 05:12 PM
They had a poll on the pregame show yesterday (or Chicago Tribune Live) and keep Ozzie was something like 55% and fire Ozzie was 45%.

I think a lot of people like Ozzie. He interacts with the crowd around the dugout and he's a very funny guy. Most people are probably not as fanatical as those of us who find our way to this board and they don't care about the issues that drive some of us to distraction. They probably don't think that they could manage the team better.

My only issues with Ozzie are

A) his foul language, and I'm no prude.
B) some questionable game decisions but, to me, not as many or as disastrous as some make out here

I read in an earlier post that most of the team wouldn't find a job on any other mlb team. That tells me that no other manager could get any more out of them.

As far as an organization being responsible for an mlb player's inability to execute fundamental baseball plays... I don't think ANYONE should have to tell a guy making millions of dollars a year that he needs to know how to bunt, not to swing at bad pitches, how to get to a fly ball, etc. All of that should fall within his own desire to be as good as he can be for his team.

Daver
05-31-2011, 05:32 PM
As far as an organization being responsible for an mlb player's inability to execute fundamental baseball plays... I don't think ANYONE should have to tell a guy making millions of dollars a year that he needs to know how to bunt, not to swing at bad pitches, how to get to a fly ball, etc. All of that should fall within his own desire to be as good as he can be for his team.

Players make the transition to pro ball the way they are coached in the minors, baseball instincts are taught, they are not self learned, you don't wake up one morning and suddenly know exactly what base to throw to in any given situation on a flyball to left center, or how to backup second base on a steal attempt from center field.

The best fundamental player on the White Sox happens to come from a system that is well known for developing minor league talent, is it a coincidence? I think not.

downstairs
05-31-2011, 05:38 PM
You know, I'd be pissed with the fans too. He's pretty much the most successful manager in White Sox history- sans their success in the much different baseball world of the early 1900's.

1 World Series championship, another division win, another 90 win season. All of two losing seasons in 7 completed years.

Sheeesh... what more do you want?

This year isn't over yet, the Central is weak.

JermaineDye05
05-31-2011, 05:47 PM
You know, I'd be pissed with the fans too. He's pretty much the most successful manager in White Sox history- sans their success in the much different baseball world of the early 1900's.

1 World Series championship, another division win, another 90 win season. All of two losing seasons in 7 completed years.

Sheeesh... what more do you want?

This year isn't over yet, the Central is weak.

We don't want to win the Central.

We want to win the world series.

Despite last night's win, this team doesn't look like it's quite ready to compete with the likes of Boston and Texas.

Brian26
05-31-2011, 08:12 PM
Despite last night's win, this team doesn't look like it's quite ready to compete with the likes of Boston and Texas.

Actually, the problem with this team is more complicated than that. The Sox can compete with Boston, Texas or the Yankees. The Sox could sweep any of those teams in three straight games. The problem is, the Sox could just as easily, and predictably, lose five in a row after that to Baltimore and Seattle. It's a team so far with no identity.

Brian26
05-31-2011, 08:14 PM
the best fundamental player on the white sox happens to come from a system that is well known for developing minor league talent, is it a coincidence? I think not.

aj

FielderJones
05-31-2011, 09:35 PM
They won what, one game in Boston? Big deal. The offense is still bad. It was a really nice win, but they need to keep it going and at least take 2 of 3.

I suppose now they'll have to sweep to not have a bad offense. Fool's gold, Walkerball, all that. Yeah.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2011, 09:47 PM
Ummm Downstairs, I suggest you take a look at what Al Lopez did with the Sox between the years 1957 and 1965.

9 consecutive winning seasons, 1 American League pennant, 5, 90+ win seasons (and from 57 through 60 they only played 154 games), managed two American League All-Star Teams.

Overall record in those years: 811-615 .569
Average yearly record: 90-68

Lip

tstrike2000
05-31-2011, 09:49 PM
I suppose now they'll have to sweep to not have a bad offense. Fool's gold, Walkerball, all that. Yeah.

Two wins in Boston and all of a sudden their offense is awesome? We'll try not to get in your way as President of the Greg Walker fan club.

kittle42
05-31-2011, 09:50 PM
Two wins in Boston and all of sudden their offense is awesome? We'll try not to get in your way as President of the Greg Walker fan club.

Seriously - two games is not consistency.

FielderJones
05-31-2011, 11:09 PM
Two wins in Boston and all of a sudden their offense is awesome? We'll try not to get in your way as President of the Greg Walker fan club.

I'll continue to be chirpy as long as the offense is getting the job done. But I won't get in your way as the lead Debbie Downer.

BarbG
05-31-2011, 11:58 PM
While I respect the fact that Ozzie's comments offended most of the posters thus far, I can't help but think most people are taking those comments far too personal.

The "fans" that Ozzie is referring to are the drunk morons who scream obsceneties at him on his way back to the dugout. I've been there and heard them - they are not reflective of the fan base or this board, but they are there.

Ozzie knows this to, but these are the unfortunate "vocal' minority.

The "fans" he refers to are the ones who loudly booed Dunn last Saturday during a game the Sox were winning by five runs. I was embarrassed to be in those stands that day.

He also refers to the brain dead (also often drunk) fans calling the post game show; I'm sure many of you have heard them and they too are an embarrassement.

Believe me, Ozzie knows the difference between a "real" fan and these morons.

Any "normal" Sox fan who thinks that those comments are directed at them are either way too sensitive, delusional or just want Ozzie to go for other reasons and feel this is good reason to stoke the flames for his potential firing.

My 2 cents....

Mine too...I agree with you completely.

kufram
06-01-2011, 01:08 AM
Mine too...I agree with you completely.


I'm stunned. A post that I totally agree with. Warms the cockles.

kufram
06-01-2011, 01:27 AM
Players make the transition to pro ball the way they are coached in the minors, baseball instincts are taught, they are not self learned, you don't wake up one morning and suddenly know exactly what base to throw to in any given situation on a flyball to left center, or how to backup second base on a steal attempt from center field.

The best fundamental player on the White Sox happens to come from a system that is well known for developing minor league talent, is it a coincidence? I think not.

You are right and I accept that, but a player should be able to recognize his weaknesses (we all do) and take some sort of action to remedy them, i.e. seek out coaching.

I think some fundamental baseball instincts are inherent. The ability to hit a ball with a bat is either there or it isn't. One can improve on the basic skill but if that skill isn't there it can't be learned. The same instinct of knowing where a fly ball will come down and running to that point is exactly that... instinct.

I had a coach turn me from a left handed, opposite field, hard ground ball, line drive, high average but no power hitter... into a right field, power hitting, extra base hitter in one session. I was a long way from mlb, admittedly... but I had to ask the guy for help and then listen to him. He also was an excellent coach so I think your point is right but mine is a little right also.

tstrike2000
06-01-2011, 07:34 AM
I'll continue to be chirpy as long as the offense is getting the job done. But I won't get in your way as the lead Debbie Downer.

Everyone's happy with a winner, especially in Boston. However, if wanting Dunn and Rios to stop batting .185 and .201, respectively, and wanting the offense to be more consistent (like not having long stretches where they only score 3 runs or less) makes me a downer, then so be it.

BringHomeDaBacon
06-01-2011, 07:43 AM
You know, I'd be pissed with the fans too. He's pretty much the most successful manager in White Sox history- sans their success in the much different baseball world of the early 1900's.

1 World Series championship, another division win, another 90 win season. All of two losing seasons in 7 completed years.

Sheeesh... what more do you want?

This year isn't over yet, the Central is weak.

In a way, you answered your own question. The Central is ALWAYS weak so considering the payroll, many of us expect more than what has been accomplished over those 7 years. That three week run of historic starting pitching in 2005 doesn't mean fans can't expect success from its team in the following years nor does it mean that Ozzie (and KW) should be immune from the requirement of meeting said expectations.

Gavin
06-01-2011, 07:47 AM
Unless your case begins and ends with 2005, there is nothing else before or after 2005 that stands as evidence that one should put up with Ozzie for any longer.

kittle42
06-01-2011, 09:34 AM
Unless your case begins and ends with 2005, there is nothing else before or after 2005 that stands as evidence that one should put up with Ozzie for any longer.

Agreed.

Rocky Soprano
06-02-2011, 09:40 AM
I won a contest via the official White Sox twitter account, an autographed Ozzie Guillen picture. What should I do with it?

:D:

miker
06-02-2011, 09:52 AM
I won a contest via the official White Sox twitter account, an autographed Ozzie Guillen picture. What should I do with it?

:D:

Yell at it...