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Lip Man 1
05-28-2011, 05:23 PM
Apparently the manager and coaching staff have nothing to do with all this I guess. :rolleyes:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-guillen-blasts-sox-after-extrainning-shortcomings-20110528,0,2236564.story

Lip

soltrain21
05-28-2011, 05:25 PM
Fire his stupid ass, please. He is basically asking to be fired. I'm already drained?

You know what I'm drained about, Ozzie? Watching you completely mismanage an already struggling team.

DickAllen72
05-28-2011, 05:32 PM
Fire this piece of **** manager already!!! :angry:

:fireozzie

BleacherBandit
05-28-2011, 05:32 PM
Fire his stupid ass, please. He is basically asking to be fired. I'm already drained?

You know what I'm drained about, Ozzie? Watching you completely mismanage an already struggling team.

If you feel drained in May (or let's be honest, maybe managers do feel that way after two months of travel, but who would ever admit to that publicly?) maybe you shouldn't be in charge of a team who's supposed to play five more months.

Crestani
05-28-2011, 05:33 PM
Fire his stupid ass, please. He is basically asking to be fired. I'm already drained?

You know what I'm drained about, Ozzie? Watching you completely mismanage an already struggling team.


Adam Dunn had no business whatsoever batting in the bottom of the 11the with a runner at third and 1 out when they brought in Perez to face him. :scratch:

I'll bet my mortgage payment that everyone on this website was yelling to pinch hit TCQ in that situation!!!:mad:

Game over at that point!!!!!:angry:

Viva Medias B's
05-28-2011, 05:33 PM
Other MLB teams would have fired him by now.

DickAllen72
05-28-2011, 05:36 PM
Other MLB teams would have fired him by now.
Other MLB teams have owners that don't blame the fans for not supporting incompetance.

A. Cavatica
05-28-2011, 05:37 PM
Every other MLB team would have fired him by now.

I hate this ****ing team. I hope the players start losing on purpose to run Guillen's sorry ass out of town.

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2011, 05:46 PM
Is there anyone here who disagrees with what he says? This is a horse **** team offensively and while Walker isn't helping this is a veteran team who really shouldn't need a whole lot of coaching. It's probably time for Ozzie to go but I don't think that they will do a lot better under a new manager. A new manager is not going to make Dunn or Rios hit any better.

StillMissOzzie
05-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Ozzie gets paid to watch this ****, we have to pay to watch this ****.
Dunn has just been brutal all year. Rios has not been worth his paycheck. I too am aggravated and frustrated, and it is not June yet.

SMO
:angry: + :mad: = :(:

CHISOXFAN13
05-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Is there anyone here who disagrees with what he says? This is a horse **** team offensively and while Walker isn't helping this is a veteran team who really shouldn't need a whole lot of coaching. It's probably time for Ozzie to go but I don't think that they will do a lot better under a new manager. A new manager is not going to make Dunn or Rios hit any better.

Nope, but unfortunately the players don't get to bash him the way he did them.

Plenty of blame to go around, and Ozzie is right there at the forefront of it all.

Viva Medias B's
05-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Is there anyone here who disagrees with what he says? This is a horse **** team offensively and while Walker isn't helping this is a veteran team who really shouldn't need a whole lot of coaching. It's probably time for Ozzie to go but I don't think that they will do a lot better under a new manager. A new manager is not going to make Dunn or Rios hit any better.

I'm not saying the players are without fault. However, Guillen is acting like he's God's gift to baseball managers in charge of a team that loses in spite of his greatness in his own mind.

soltrain21
05-28-2011, 05:50 PM
Nope, but unfortunately the players don't get to bash him the way he did them.

Plenty of blame to go around, and Ozzie is right there at the forefront of it all.

Yeah. He bashes players that used to be on our team. Now he is bashing players that are on the team. He is a joke.

Nelfox02
05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
Adam Dunn had no business whatsoever batting in the bottom of the 11the with a runner at third and 1 out when they brought in Perez to face him. :scratch:

I'll bet my mortgage payment that everyone on this website was yelling to pinch hit TCQ in that situation!!!:mad:

Game over at that point!!!!!:angry:

link

He Had No Business Being Out There! No Business! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXOtZqsekV8)

southside rocks
05-28-2011, 05:52 PM
Ozzie gets paid to watch this ****, we have to pay to watch this ****.
Dunn has just been brutal all year. Rios has not been worth his paycheck. I too am aggravated and frustrated, and it is not June yet.

SMO
:angry: + :mad: = :(:

I didn't renew my Ozzie Plan and I have paid to go to exactly one game this year (Dog Night, it was worth it just for the canines).

They're going to be playing to 12,000 paid attendance with half that number in the seats by August. This team is horrible. And the manager MIGHT be horrible, but the team FOR SURE is horrible. No one on that roster would be missed by me if he were to be traded tomorrow. (Okay, I lied: I love AJ.)

Dan H
05-28-2011, 05:53 PM
Is there anyone here who disagrees with what he says? This is a horse **** team offensively and while Walker isn't helping this is a veteran team who really shouldn't need a whole lot of coaching. It's probably time for Ozzie to go but I don't think that they will do a lot better under a new manager. A new manager is not going to make Dunn or Rios hit any better.

You are right. A new manager won't produce miracles. But the franchise has to show its fans that it recognizes that something is terribly wrong. It is not just a matter of this year. It 2012 and beyond.

southside rocks
05-28-2011, 05:54 PM
Nope, but unfortunately the players don't get to bash him the way he did them.



Sure they do. If any of the team wants to rag on Ozzie to the media, it'll get printed and aired. They just realize that when you're making millions of dollars a year and not hitting your weight, it sounds like whining to gripe about somebody who doesn't pick up a bat or put on a glove during the games.

SephClone89
05-28-2011, 05:56 PM
No one on that roster would be missed by me if he were to be traded tomorrow. (Okay, I lied: I love AJ.)

Oh, you're one of those guys.

southside rocks
05-28-2011, 05:56 PM
You are right. A new manager won't produce miracles. But the franchise has to show its fans that it recognizes that something is terribly wrong. It is not just a matter of this year. It 2012 and beyond.

I think that blowing up the team would send that message a lot faster.

I had OP tickets for 6 years. I will buy them again a lot faster if this pathetic lineup is gone, than if just Ozzie is gone and Rios, Dunn, et al. are still playing **** baseball in Sox pinstripes. Maybe other people buy tickets based on who's managing; I don't so much.

southside rocks
05-28-2011, 05:57 PM
Oh, you're one of those guys.

Actually I'm a girl. :tongue:

Soxfest
05-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Enjoy a empty ballpark JR your stupid loyalty is going to kill you at the gate!

Viva Medias B's
05-28-2011, 06:12 PM
I said this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2742765&postcount=16) on May 4, and it continues to ring true (in spite of the success we did have on the West Coast road trip).

billyvsox
05-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Is there anyone here who disagrees with what he says? This is a horse **** team offensively and while Walker isn't helping this is a veteran team who really shouldn't need a whole lot of coaching. It's probably time for Ozzie to go but I don't think that they will do a lot better under a new manager. A new manager is not going to make Dunn or Rios hit any better.

Yeah, but a new manager might bench Dunn and Rios for someone who can hit better. At least try and hold people accountable. Do you think for a second Dunn thought he might lose his job if he didnt get the run home in the 11th

doublem23
05-28-2011, 08:22 PM
I only hope after he had his little tirade he brought everyone on the field for a round of bunting practice.

DSpivack
05-28-2011, 09:42 PM
I didn't renew my Ozzie Plan and I have paid to go to exactly one game this year (Dog Night, it was worth it just for the canines).

They're going to be playing to 12,000 paid attendance with half that number in the seats by August. This team is horrible. And the manager MIGHT be horrible, but the team FOR SURE is horrible. No one on that roster would be missed by me if he were to be traded tomorrow. (Okay, I lied: I love AJ.)

It's a combination of my finances and the team's performance [though more the former], but at this point I really don't know if I'll get to a game this season. When I lived in DC and Atlanta I got to more games each summer than I'll probably go to this year.

DumpJerry
05-28-2011, 09:47 PM
Right now, I'm watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It is making me laugh almost as much as this thread does.

canOcorn
05-28-2011, 10:09 PM
Right now, I'm watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It is making me laugh almost as much as this thread does.

I thought of watching Dumb and Dumber, but then I realized that I see that every Sox game with Walker and Ozzie.

soxfanreggie
05-29-2011, 01:24 AM
Not commenting on if he should be fired or not right now, but if he doesn't want to coach this team, I'm sure they could work out an agreement to let him out of his deal. I think most here at WSI would come over to help him pack the boxes and a few might pay for the plane tickets out of town.

kufram
05-29-2011, 03:56 AM
I'm glad Ozzie called the players out. What he said was nothing compared to what some posters here say about players. Like it or not, Ozzie is in charge in the clubhouse. I wish we had a different manager at times also but I think it is unrealistic to think firing Ozzie is going to fix players. It is possible to get a better game manager, for sure, but do people really believe that Ozzie can make the hitters perform better in clutch situations? I'm a little tired of hearing that the players aren't put in the best situation to succeed even though it is true sometimes. These guys have been playing baseball their whole lives at increasingly higher levels. They need to get the job done.

If you really want organizational redirection you have to hope for a change at the very top. Hope for that change and you might get what you want.

Dan H
05-29-2011, 08:28 AM
I said this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2742765&postcount=16) on May 4, and it continues to ring true (in spite of the success we did have on the West Coast road trip).


You said it very well. In evaluating the 2011 team, the organization needs to evaluate how it has performed over the long haul. The team has had its moments, but the success seems fleeting. After the Winning Ugly team, almost all of the remainder of the 80's was spent under .500. After returning from the strike, the results for the 90's was about the same. Since the World Series, the team has been inconsistent. It has been frustrating to see a team built up to do some real winning, only to return the form of losing Chicago baseball rather quickly.

oldgrouch
05-29-2011, 09:53 AM
Fire his stupid ass, please. He is basically asking to be fired. I'm already drained?

You know what I'm drained about, Ozzie? Watching you completely mismanage an already struggling team.

One needs to look at who is responsible for acquiring the players.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2011, 09:57 AM
I'm want Ozzie fired but the more I watch these guys its evident that our starting lineup is flawed.
The left fielder might be the worst fielder I've ever seen at the ML level.
The center fielder has been lost most of the time since he has been here except for the first 3 months of 2010.
The right fielder is too much of a streak hitter, consistancy is the name of the game.
The 3rd baseman is still learning.
The SS lacks focus especially in the field.
The 2nd baseman is not who we thought he was going to be, he might wind up being a utility player, if that.
The 1st baseman is the only one who has a clue, where would this team be without him.
The catcher is just about through, no power, hits into DPs way too much and couuldn't throw Sherm Lollar out if he was trying to steal second base.
And finally the DH, right now he should give back most of his paycheck, what a disgrace he has been.

The pitching staff has done a very good job and they have to be as frustrated as us. They should sue for non-support.

soltrain21
05-29-2011, 09:57 AM
One needs to look at who is responsible for acquiring the players.

Fire him, too. I'm tired of his "I'm a badass but also woe is us" attitude.

Brian26
05-29-2011, 10:08 AM
You said it very well. In evaluating the 2011 team, the organization needs to evaluate how it has performed over the long haul. The team has had its moments, but the success seems fleeting. After the Winning Ugly team, almost all of the remainder of the 80's was spent under .500. After returning from the strike, the results for the 90's was about the same. Since the World Series, the team has been inconsistent. It has been frustrating to see a team built up to do some real winning, only to return the form of losing Chicago baseball rather quickly.

The problem right now is a combination of drastically under-performing talent and questionable managerial decisions and coaching.

The talent has been assembled on the field. Over the last decade, Reinsdorf has opened the checkbook to make this team competitive on the field, moreso than any other owner in Sox history has (that includes Veeck).

What's happening on the field right now has nothing to do with what happened in the late 1980s. They are two totally different eras with two totally different ownership mindsets.

And you cherry-pick your comments to bash ownership, because this team had the second-best cumulative record in baseball from 1990-1997 only behind the Atlanta Braves, and they had the third best record '90-'98 behind Atlanta and NYY.

Alex Rios and Adam Dunn's lack of production right now has nothing in common with the problem of Wayne Tolleson and Daryl Boston being terrible baseball players.

soxinem1
05-29-2011, 10:40 AM
The real questions, again, should be asked of Ozzie:

Why is Dunn EVER batting third? EVER!!! At least when Thome batted third he was on base 40% of the time. Dunn is striking out 40% of the time.

Why is Thornton being used in key situations? Honestly, I trust Ohman more right now in the later innings than Thornton. It's getting tiring that every time Thornton comes in he leaves 14 pitches later not doing the job. Until he decides to start throwing the slider that he had in 2009 and most of 2010 again, he is just going to get his straight-ass fastball hit all over.

Lillibridge seems to be in a bit of a zone and has played the OF well, and better than the starting three by far. So why not ride him out a bit and put him in LF? I think the power surge is a bit of a fluke but he is contributing more than Pierre by far and has caught everything hit to him.

Enough of this **** already, time to tell Ozzie to take a flying hike.

cards press box
05-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Adam Dunn had no business whatsoever batting in the bottom of the 11the with a runner at third and 1 out when they brought in Perez to face him. :scratch:

I'll bet my mortgage payment that everyone on this website was yelling to pinch hit TCQ in that situation!!!:mad:

Game over at that point!!!!!:angry:

Ozzie made a mistake in this situation but it is not the one you think. After Konerko doubled in Ramirez to tie the game at 8 in the 9th, Ozzie pinch ran the not particularly fast Dallas McPherson for him. This was a not a good gamble. The Sox had two out and had already tied the game. If AJ didn't get a second two out hit, the move had the potential to leave the Sox vulnerable in extra innings and that is exactly what happened. If the Sox had pinch hit Quentin for Dunn, the Jays pitch around him (or maybe intentionally walk him) and the Sox would have been stuck with McPherson facing the lefty. Ozzie took a high risk/low return gamble in the 9th inning and ultimately outmanuvered himself.

The problem right now is a combination of drastically under-performing talent and questionable managerial decisions and coaching.

The talent has been assembled on the field. Over the last decade, Reinsdorf has opened the checkbook to make this team competitive on the field, moreso than any other owner in Sox history has (that includes Veeck).

What's happening on the field right now has nothing to do with what happened in the late 1980s. They are two totally different eras with two totally different ownership mindsets.

And you cherry-pick your comments to bash ownership, because this team had the second-best cumulative record in baseball from 1990-1997 only behind the Atlanta Braves, and they had the third best record '90-'98 behind Atlanta and NYY.

Alex Rios and Adam Dunn's lack of production right now has nothing in common with the problem of Wayne Tolleson and Daryl Boston being terrible baseball players.

I agree. The problem has been a bad combination of under performance and some questionable decision making. It makes me wonder whether this team has stopped listening to Ozzie. If that is the case, then the Sox have a problem.

As for Mr. Reinsdorf, his ownership has gotten a lot better over the years. The improvements in the ballpark during the last decade have been excellent and the Sox have been more than competitive in terms of payroll for a long time. They are not the Red Sox or Yankees but no one else is, either. The Sox have, as a whole, spent more than anyone in their division, except maybe the Tigers. The Sox and L.A. Angels have always operated in a similar fashion economically and both teams won a world championship in the last decade.

And the Sox have stayed competitive as a franchise even though they have to share Chicago with the Cubs, a team that: (a) gets (and therefore ties up) most the potential baseball revenue in Chicago and (b) up to 2011, has not had to accomplish anything in order to remain a cash cow. Maybe the Cubs' ongoing economic anomaly (i.e., selling out despite inept management and a poor product) is coming to an end. I don't know. But I do know that sharing a city with a club that has been the keystone cops year in and year and still draws over 3 million people would pose a problem for any ownership group. All in all, Mr. Reinsdorf has been a good owner.

russ99
05-29-2011, 10:55 AM
The real questions, again, should be asked of Ozzie:

Why is Dunn EVER batting third? EVER!!! At least when Thome batted third he was on base 40% of the time. Dunn is striking out 40% of the time.

Why is Thornton being used in key situations? Honestly, I trust Ohman more right now in the later innings than Thornton. It's getting tiring that every time Thornton comes in he leaves 14 pitches later not doing the job. Until he decides to start throwing the slider that he had in 2009 and most of 2010 again, he is just going to get his straight-ass fastball hit all over.

Maybe Kenny should be asked why he gave both big contracts this offseason.

These guys have a track record. Dunn as a OBP/HR machine and Thornton as one the elite setup man in the AL.

Just because they're not currently living up to that track record is no reason to bench them and waste the salary paid to them.

You'd think at some point these guys could get back to what made them successful, and they won't do that by sitting. It's painful to watch, but would you prefer them playing badly now with a chance of playing well later in the year or sit them with no chance of bouncing back?

soxinem1
05-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Maybe Kenny should be asked why he gave both big contracts this offseason.

These guys have a track record. Dunn as a OBP/HR machine and Thornton as one the elite setup man in the AL.

Just because they're not currently living up to that track record is no reason to bench them and waste the salary paid to them.

You'd think at some point these guys could get back to what made them successful, and they won't do that by sitting. It's painful to watch, but would you prefer them playing badly now with a chance of playing well later in the year or sit them with no chance of bouncing back?

The question was not if they should be playing, but how they are utilized. Just because Dunn cost a boat-load of $$$$ does not make him a #3 hitter.

The other two players I mentioned did not get huge contracts and even if they did, you have to do something to shake up this mess. Use Thornton in the middle and Ohman later, and let Lillibridge play in place of Juan P. Error until he either gets on track, if ever.

But sending out the same losing formula day after day does nothing to salvage the season, especially if the manager is 'worn out'.

DickAllen72
05-29-2011, 11:10 AM
So Guillen blasts the players and now Dunn is blasting the advance scouts. Sounds like the team is falling apart under Ozzie and his staff. Time for a change to try to salvage this $125M debacle.

russ99
05-29-2011, 11:11 AM
The question was not if they should be playing, but how they are utilized. Just because Dunn cost a boat-load of $$$$ does not make him a #3 hitter.

The other two players I mentioned did not get huge contracts and even if they did, you have to do something to shake up this mess. Use Thornton in the middle and Ohman later, and let Lillibridge play in place of Juan P. Error until he either gets on track, if ever.

But sending out the same losing formula day after day does nothing to salvage the season, especially if the manager is 'worn out'.

The Sox are 12-9 since the Twins series while saddled with a ridiculously inefficient offense. Sure, fire the manager. :rolleyes:

Current Team numbers - AVG: .248, RISP: .251, RISP 2 out: .220

soxinem1
05-29-2011, 11:16 AM
So Guillen blasts the players and now Dunn is blasting the advance scouts. Sounds like the team is falling apart under Ozzie and his staff. Time for a change to try to salvage this $125M debacle.

The only things Dunn should blast is either to himself or baseballs.

Anytime you want to come aboard, Adam!!!

CHISOXFAN13
05-29-2011, 11:25 AM
The only things Dunn should blast is either to himself or baseballs.

Anytime you want to come aboard, Adam!!!

I have absolutely no problem with Dunn being critical. It's an organizational issue that constantly gets swept under the rug.

captain54
05-29-2011, 11:45 AM
You said it very well. In evaluating the 2011 team, the organization needs to evaluate how it has performed over the long haul. The team has had its moments, but the success seems fleeting. After the Winning Ugly team, almost all of the remainder of the 80's was spent under .500. After returning from the strike, the results for the 90's was about the same. Since the World Series, the team has been inconsistent. It has been frustrating to see a team built up to do some real winning, only to return the form of losing Chicago baseball rather quickly.

I'll help the organization out in it's "self-evaluation over the long haul"...

Don't hire and keep people employed based upon their loyalty and willingness to be a company man. Hire and keep people employed based upon their ability and qualification to be the best person for the job

gobears1987
05-29-2011, 11:45 AM
I have absolutely no problem with Dunn being critical. It's an organizational issue that constantly gets swept under the rug.

But if people have to acknowledge the fact that the team has no advance scouting, then they can't blame Ozzie and Walker for everything that goes wrong.

SouthSideMike
05-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Publicly rips the players? Check.

Publicly rips the fans? Check.

With all the crap he's spewing in public about everyone, it actually seems as if he WANTS to be fired. I mean, he has pulled out the "they can fire me if they want" or "maybe I'll retire" cards frequently in the past. Why not grant his wish, then?