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gosox41
05-27-2011, 10:16 PM
Watching the Sox offense makes me think that a strange in strategy is in order for our pitchers. What Sox pitching should do is put the first two batters on base every inning. This guarantees that the other team won't score because all the pressure is on the other hitters to drive the runners home. Who can handle that kind of pressure? It's much easier to hit with no one on base when with two on and no out because of all that pressure to drive in runs.

BTW, I can't remember the color of sarcasm but I'm sure someone will point it out to me.

Anyway here are some stats to depress you about the Sox offense through May 25.

-They currently are 15th in the league in runs scored with 206. Just under 4 per game.
-They are tied for the most games played of any team in baseball.
-6 NL teams have scored more runs this season then the Sox, including teams like the Diamondbacks and Cubs.
-Team OBP ranks 17th at .316. They are slugging a rather pathetic .385, 18th in the league.

I'm at a loss of what to do. This is a team made mostly of veteran hitters with good track records who have a history of being better then what they are. Yet every year, this team goes through the same stupid spring slump and it pretty much kills our season. The personnel changes, but the results tend to be the same: a team of hitters where 80% of terrible and take off 1/3 of the season, but of course they all take it off at the exact same time.

Do other contending teams experience such things? I know everyone slumps, and I don't watch the other teams as much as I watch the Sox, but it seems like when they slump, there are more players doing it for a much longer period of time.

Is there any hope this team will breakout soon and we can experience the reversion to the mean for these hitters?


Bob

Nellie_Fox
05-28-2011, 12:11 AM
Watching the Sox offense makes me think that a strange in strategy is in order for our pitchers. What Sox pitching should do is put the first two batters on base every inning. This guarantees that the other team won't score because all the pressure is on the other hitters to drive the runners home. Who can handle that kind of pressure? It's much easier to hit with no one on base when with two on and no out because of all that pressure to drive in runs.

BTW, I can't remember the color of sarcasm but I'm sure someone will point it out to me.Well, it isn't the practically unreadable "pale turquoise" that you picked out. It's teal:

:tealtutor:

Lip Man 1
05-28-2011, 12:57 AM
Bob:

There's been one other constant to the points you have brought up over the past five years.

The manager and coaching staff has remained for all intents and purposes the same.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

As for me, it's hard to imagine the odds of almost every player the Sox acquire or bring up having terrible hitting issues seemingly the moment the put on the uniform.

It's not just the hitters, not by a long shot.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
05-28-2011, 01:21 AM
Bob:

There's been one other constant to the points you have brought up over the past five years.

The manager and coaching staff has remained for all intents and purposes the same.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

As for me, it's hard to imagine the odds of almost every player the Sox acquire or bring up having terrible hitting issues seemingly the moment the put on the uniform.

It's not just the hitters, not by a long shot.

LipBut that's what I don't get. What are you saying, that the Sox acquire successful hitters and immediately try to get them to change what they've been doing that made them successful, thus changing them from good to bad? Or that they can't be successful doing what they did unless they have the same coaches they used to have from the moment they hit the door? Did they require a coach constantly reinforcing what they did in order to be successful where they were?

In other words, how can coaching cause successful hitters to go bad IMMEDIATELY? I'm serious in asking, because I just can't get my head around this concept.

Frater Perdurabo
05-28-2011, 08:00 AM
But that's what I don't get. What are you saying, that the Sox acquire successful hitters and immediately try to get them to change what they've been doing that made them successful, thus changing them from good to bad? Or that they can't be successful doing what they did unless they have the same coaches they used to have from the moment they hit the door? Did they require a coach constantly reinforcing what they did in order to be successful where they were?

In other words, how can coaching cause successful hitters to go bad IMMEDIATELY? I'm serious in asking, because I just can't get my head around this concept.

I don't know either, but evidence suggests the Sox have perfected this.

A. Cavatica
05-28-2011, 10:53 AM
I think the key to successful hitting is mental, and there's something about the tone of the clubhouse (read: Ozzie is a wingnut and Walker sets a low bar for performance) that few players can overcome.

Lip Man 1
05-28-2011, 11:49 AM
Nellie:

I think there is something in the clubhouse atmosphere, something about the chemistry of the teams being put together the last five years that simply isn't "right." (i.e. no vocal clubhouse leaders...)

I think that because the mix is off coupled with what I'm coming to believe is a coaching staff / manager that can't teach fundamentals properly, that as JB has said, the minute things start to go a little bit south, the players mentally let it get to them, making things worse.

Not all the guys the Sox have gotten over five years have been mediocre / bad players yet they seem to turn into that here. That's long odds and hard to believe.

Some of it, in my opinion, is on the players but more of the problem is on the coaching staff and some on the G.M. Of the three areas I blame (for wont of a better word) Ozzie and his staff the most.

He is not putting players in the best position to succeed by a lot of his strange decisions and when guys are having trouble I get the sense (without any actual proof - just my opinion) that the staff isn't really being much help.

I do have some evidence about the clubhouse mix from conversations over the past two years with some folks in the front office. They have told me they were surprised over some things that took place on the field and some things that happened in spring training. They also wondered (to me anyway) about some of the moves Kenny made.

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2011, 12:18 PM
Nellie:

I think there is something in the clubhouse atmosphere, something about the chemistry of the teams being put together the last five years that simply isn't "right." (i.e. no vocal clubhouse leaders...)

I think that because the mix is off coupled with what I'm coming to believe is a coaching staff / manager that can't teach fundamentals properly, that as JB has said, the minute things start to go a little bit south, the players mentally let it get to them, making things worse.

Not all the guys the Sox have gotten over five years have been mediocre / bad players yet they seem to turn into that here. That's long odds and hard to believe.

Some of it, in my opinion, is on the players but more of the problem is on the coaching staff and some on the G.M. Of the three areas I blame (for wont of a better word) Ozzie and his staff the most.

He is not putting players in the best position to succeed by a lot of his strange decisions and when guys are having trouble I get the sense (without any actual proof - just my opinion) that the staff isn't really being much help.

I do have some evidence about the clubhouse mix from conversations over the past two years with some folks in the front office. They have told me they were surprised over some things that took place on the field and some things that happened in spring training. They also wondered (to me anyway) about some of the moves Kenny made.


Lip, I think you and I are the only ones who think that spring training matters. I don't know what happenned in ST that you alluded to , but I know our record in ST has to be the worst in MLB over the last 5 years or so. I know with these horrible starts that we are off to every year is for a reason. This team is horrible in fundamentals and their hitting especially when the game is on the line is atrocious. Something is not being addressed in ST.
I'm wondering what the mindset of our guys is with a RISP late in the game where we are tied or down by a run. I think our guys except for Pierre are thinking HR instead of just a hit to the opposite field.

gosox41
05-28-2011, 03:01 PM
But that's what I don't get. What are you saying, that the Sox acquire successful hitters and immediately try to get them to change what they've been doing that made them successful, thus changing them from good to bad? Or that they can't be successful doing what they did unless they have the same coaches they used to have from the moment they hit the door? Did they require a coach constantly reinforcing what they did in order to be successful where they were?

In other words, how can coaching cause successful hitters to go bad IMMEDIATELY? I'm serious in asking, because I just can't get my head around this concept.


I'm at a loss about the offense. Adam Dunn is a perfect example. My guess is he had more then one hitting coach during his time in Cincy. He obviously had someone else when he went to the Nats. Yet his numbers are pretty darn consistent.

Maybe it is time to change hitting coaches just to get us out of this rut. Outside of 2006, this team goes through these obscenely long slumps in April/May every year. I doubt the hitting coach is at fault for 6 out of 9 regulars tha are veterans for slumping, but maybe he's got to find a way to shorten these slumps.

I've never dreaded watching 2 men on and no one out until I saw this team continuously fail at scoring one freaking run.

The players change year in and year out for the most part, but the pathetic April and May's stay the same.

I don't know of any solution that will defnitely solve this but if someone could figure it out, I'm sure KW would hire you and pay you well.


Bob

gosox41
05-28-2011, 03:04 PM
I think the key to successful hitting is mental, and there's something about the tone of the clubhouse (read: Ozzie is a wingnut and Walker sets a low bar for performance) that few players can overcome.


Why can't veteran players just go out and hit? Why does Adam Dunn care what low bar Walker has suppsoedly set.

Dunn knows why he was paid $56MM to come here.

Also, what changes about Ozzie and Walker in June-August when the weather warms up and the offense starts producing?


Bob

gosox41
05-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Nellie:

I think there is something in the clubhouse atmosphere, something about the chemistry of the teams being put together the last five years that simply isn't "right." (i.e. no vocal clubhouse leaders...)

I think that because the mix is off coupled with what I'm coming to believe is a coaching staff / manager that can't teach fundamentals properly, that as JB has said, the minute things start to go a little bit south, the players mentally let it get to them, making things worse.

Not all the guys the Sox have gotten over five years have been mediocre / bad players yet they seem to turn into that here. That's long odds and hard to believe.

Some of it, in my opinion, is on the players but more of the problem is on the coaching staff and some on the G.M. Of the three areas I blame (for wont of a better word) Ozzie and his staff the most.

He is not putting players in the best position to succeed by a lot of his strange decisions and when guys are having trouble I get the sense (without any actual proof - just my opinion) that the staff isn't really being much help.

I do have some evidence about the clubhouse mix from conversations over the past two years with some folks in the front office. They have told me they were surprised over some things that took place on the field and some things that happened in spring training. They also wondered (to me anyway) about some of the moves Kenny made.


I think your may be on to something about spring training and the lack of intensity. I don't buy into the cold weath theory for all the players. As for chemistry, KW has no problem getting rid of distractions and non-team players. Also, I thought Peavy was our leader (he's back now and the team still can't hit.) Who was the vocal leader of the 2005 team?

Also, I realize chemistry is an issue to an extent. But I work ith people everyday, some who I think are not team players and who I have no desire to see socially. Yet I still manage to get my work done and don't let office politics, or my opinions of some of my co-workers effect my performance.

Bob

Lip Man 1
05-28-2011, 05:19 PM
Bob:

Sports is a totally different animal from the business world.

The vocal leaders in 2005 were, Everett, Rowand, Hernandez...guys who wouldn't put up with **** and let folks know about it.

A.J. also was still in his prime as a grade a, number #1 baseball 'red-ass...' he's long past that.

Lip

PatK
05-31-2011, 11:04 AM
\
-6 NL teams have scored more runs this season then the Sox, including teams like the Diamondbacks and Cubs.
\

Bob

The Cubs have the 2nd highest BA and 5th highest OBP in the majors, they should be scoring more runs than the Sox

gosox41
05-31-2011, 10:04 PM
The Cubs have the 2nd highest BA and 5th highest OBP in the majors, they should be scoring more runs than the Sox


That may be, but did you really expect the Cubs to have a higher OBP and BA then the Sox? I didn't.


Bob

FielderJones
05-31-2011, 11:12 PM
That may be, but did you really expect the Cubs to have a higher OBP and BA then the Sox? I didn't.

I didn't expect Adam Dunn to suck for two months.

PatK
06-01-2011, 10:30 AM
That may be, but did you really expect the Cubs to have a higher OBP and BA then the Sox? I didn't.


Bob

That doesn't dismiss the fact that in both stats they are better than most of MLB. So they should have more runs.

You're stating in a matter that suggests they shouldn't.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2011, 04:04 PM
May numbers courtesy of Gonzo:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-mixed-may-for-soxs-offense-20110601,0,4987644.story

Lip

gosox41
06-01-2011, 09:00 PM
That doesn't dismiss the fact that in both stats they are better than most of MLB. So they should have more runs.

You're stating in a matter that suggests they shouldn't.

I think you're missing my point. I have no doubt that they should score as many runs as they should have base on their BA and OPS.

I'm just surprised they have put up such high numbers. If, before the seaso started, someon showed me each teams BA, Runs scored, OBP, and OPS without seeing the team names, I would have thought the Sox would have the higher numbers.

I'm not dissing arguing the stats, I am just surprised by them.


Bob

Dan H
06-06-2011, 06:26 AM
Only Konerko and Quentin have done anything this year. Pierre has started hitting recently but he can't steal anymore. Dunn and Rios have wasted a third of the season. We've been told this offense is going to bust out of it. We are still waiting.

asindc
06-06-2011, 09:29 AM
Only Konerko and Quentin have done anything this year. Pierre has started hitting recently but he can't steal anymore. Dunn and Rios have wasted a third of the season. We've been told this offense is going to bust out of it. We are still waiting.

I'd add Alexei to your list.