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View Full Version : *Official* 5-26 Humber, Sox defeather Jays 3-1 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2011, 10:02 PM
Finally!

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2011, 10:03 PM
Walker still needs to be fired.

NDSox12
05-26-2011, 10:03 PM
Third place! Hey, it's something.

miker
05-26-2011, 10:04 PM
Yay! A win. :D:

thomas35forever
05-26-2011, 10:04 PM
I still can't believe how we won this one in the top of the ninth. I'll take any breaks we can possibly get.

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 10:04 PM
Still haven't had back-to-back losses since early May.

Blue Jays gave this one to the Sox.

I'm really concerned about the offense. We looked absolutely dreadful tonight, and this was against the worst pitcher the Jays are going to throw at us this series.

We still have to see Drabek and Romero.

Offense needs to get its **** together or we're going to have another run like we did in April.

LongLiveFisk
05-26-2011, 10:04 PM
Nice thread title.

And you remembered to add the date too. Always a nice touch. :D:

Hey, it wasn't pretty but it's a win.

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2011, 10:05 PM
The Sox really are getting some excellent pitching performances. If they could just hit and field at a league average level, they would be well above .500 right now.

JB98
05-26-2011, 10:06 PM
Walker still needs to be fired.

Agreed. At least we can still pitch this year.

Humber might be the latest Cooper success story. Can't take that dude out of the rotation.

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:06 PM
Dunn needs a case of "turf toe".

StillMissOzzie
05-26-2011, 10:06 PM
It's about time the Sox won an ugly game like that for a change instead of pissing one away like we've seen all too often. Hats off to another fine start by Humber, and a big no thanks to you to Dunn, who continues to look pathetic.

SMO
:gulp:

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 10:06 PM
The Sox really are getting some excellent pitching performances. If they could just hit and field at a league average level, they would be well above .500 right now.

They need to learn to hit with RISP.

They almost squandered another man on third less than 2 outs situation in the 9th.

voodoochile
05-26-2011, 10:08 PM
Not pretty, but who cares? The wins the thing...

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:09 PM
Humber has been sick. Whoever said he'd be coming out of the rotation, that's just crazy talk.

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Agreed. At least we can still pitch this year.

Humber might be the latest Cooper success story. Can't take that dude out of the rotation.

My only question with Humber is this: Is what we are seeing more of a Loaiza situation, where we milk him for a year and then just as the league figures him out, we trade him? Or has Coop tapped his potential as a long-term solution in the starting rotation?

Humber may be our best starter this year. He has the best ERA in the rotation. Maybe he needs to be our All-Star rep.

ChiSoxGal85
05-26-2011, 10:10 PM
This was certainly no "OMG, this win rocked" kind of game...Toronto handed them the game in the 9th. Whatever - I'll take it.

Phil Humber has been just awesome. He gives the Sox a chance to win every game he pitches. Now if only the Sox offense would freakin' wake up and support him...

I am pretty patient with players in slumps, but even I have gotten really tired of Adam Dunn. To me, he looks defeated the minute he steps up to the plate.

Well, a win's a win. One win at a time. Let's do it again tomorrow.

vinny
05-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Maybe this will be Juan's turning point.

Humber has been an absolute beast for us. Too bad he couldn't get run support (again).

balke
05-26-2011, 10:11 PM
How about a little credit for pierre? One of the only guys making contact. Only guy who can actually beat the pitcher on that play. 11 game hit streak?

johnny bench
05-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Golden sombrero for Dunn. :angry:

JB98
05-26-2011, 10:12 PM
My only question with Humber is this: Is what we are seeing more of a Loaiza situation, where we milk him for a year and then just as the league figures him out, we trade him? Or has Coop tapped his potential as a long-term solution in the starting rotation?

Humber may be our best starter this year. He has the best ERA in the rotation. Maybe he needs to be our All-Star rep.

We'll see how he holds up the second half of the year. He's never thrown more than 150 innings in any professional season.

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Golden sombrero for Dunn. :angry:

I am aware!

tstrike2000
05-26-2011, 10:13 PM
Walker still needs to be fired.

Thank God for Humber and thank God for Toronto mistakes.

Zakath
05-26-2011, 10:14 PM
When Beckham was hit by Rzepczynski in the 9th instead of getting the wild pitch where Rios could have easily scored, I kept thinking here we go again, especially in Toronto.

65 K's in 156 AB's. I'm sorry, but that's miles beyond as bad as I thought it could possibly be for Dunn. At that pace, with 550-ish AB's, that's 229 K's.

amsteel
05-26-2011, 10:15 PM
At some point this series Bautista is gonna go nuts. I'm glad it wasn't tonight.

Woofer
05-26-2011, 10:18 PM
Humber has been great this year. The offense needs to wake up. I'm hoping to see the Sox get into second place by the end of this road trip.

balke
05-26-2011, 10:18 PM
When Beckham was hit by Rzepczynski in the 9th instead of getting the wild pitch where Rios could have easily scored, I kept thinking here we go again, especially in Toronto.

65 K's in 156 AB's. I'm sorry, but that's miles beyond as bad as I thought it could possibly be for Dunn. At that pace, with 550-ish AB's, that's 229 K's.

I didn't want Dunn because of his defense and poor batting average - but as a DH his power as a lefty should've been worth the price. This is insanity though... never saw this coming. He looks like a washed up vet and he's not even that old. Didn't even swing on some meatballs at 92mph. Pathetic.

PalehosePlanet
05-26-2011, 10:18 PM
At some point this series Bautista is gonna go nuts. I'm glad it wasn't tonight.

Not if our coaching staff realizes that he's pretty much the only guy that can hurt us in this lineup.

We have to pitch him like the game is on the line even in the early innings.

Johnny Mostil
05-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Didn't see the game, but am I reading the box score right? 3-4-5-6 went 0-for-16?

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:20 PM
They really should move AJ up now. Hit him 5th or 6th, and move Dunn to 7.

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 10:22 PM
I was devastated last night when I finally learned that Slash isn't real.

I needed this win for my psychological well-being.

Tragg
05-26-2011, 10:22 PM
Agreed. At least we can still pitch this year.

Humber might be the latest Cooper success story. Can't take that dude out of the rotation.

Indeed.
Trade Jackson for a RF

Zakath
05-26-2011, 10:23 PM
Didn't see the game, but am I reading the box score right? 3-4-5-6 went 0-for-16?

Yep. On top of the 2-13 performance yesterday, that's not a lot of heart in the heart of the lineup.

NDSox12
05-26-2011, 10:25 PM
They really should move AJ up now. Hit him 5th or 6th, and move Dunn to 7.

Funny you should say that.


http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) @MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales


Dunn to bat 7th Friday

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:26 PM
Very nice. Thanks.

ChiSoxGal85
05-26-2011, 10:33 PM
Didn't see the game, but am I reading the box score right? 3-4-5-6 went 0-for-16?
Yup. You got it right.

JB98
05-26-2011, 10:34 PM
Yep. On top of the 2-13 performance yesterday, that's not a lot of heart in the heart of the lineup.

It looks bad with Konerko in a funk the last five games or so.

balke
05-26-2011, 10:35 PM
Indeed.
Trade Jackson for a RF

Waste of a trade. 3b needs an answer. Catcher needs a young option for the future. Could probably find a defensive cfer who hits better instead of worrying about RF which actually produces offensively on occasion. Plus, better returns for Humber or Danks.

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 10:40 PM
Waste of a trade. 3b needs an answer. Catcher needs a young option for the future. Could probably find a defensive cfer who hits better instead of worrying about RF which actually produces offensively on occasion. Plus, better returns for Humber or Danks.

I want this so bad.

soltrain21
05-26-2011, 10:46 PM
Is Humber only signed this year? I'd like him for next year too.

sox1970
05-26-2011, 10:46 PM
I want this so bad.

Edwin Jackson for Austin Romine?

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Edwin Jackson for Austin Romine?

I don't think Edwin will bring you a legit catching prospect, not when he's a FA after this year.

Danks certainly will.

OmahaSoxFan
05-26-2011, 10:52 PM
Is Humber only signed this year? I'd like him for next year too.

1 year for $500,000 according to this site....

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/philip-humber/

Dude is most definitely one of the biggest bargains in MLB right now... something tells me his salary will have to rise just a little bit for him to stay here next year. :?:

bluedemon45
05-26-2011, 10:58 PM
I want this so bad.

Agreed. When a player gets on base that has any threat of stealing I'm confident he will be on second. I'm only in my 20's so I haven't really ever seen a great catcher for the White Sox in my life, but I'd love to see us get a catcher that has a cannon like Karkovice. He was gunning people from his knees.

Ugly game tonight but at least we won. Good job by Juan for beating out that play at first. Santos looked solid again. I'm glad that outing against LA isn't sticking with him. Imagine if we had him as our closer at the beginning of the year.

soltrain21
05-26-2011, 10:59 PM
1 year for $500,000 according to this site....

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/philip-humber/

Dude is most definitely one of the biggest bargains in MLB right now... something tells me his salary will have to rise just a little bit for him to stay here next year. :?:

That's why you lock it up now so he has security and we get him before demand would be there by other teams for next year.

JermaineDye05
05-26-2011, 11:02 PM
Agreed. When a player gets on base that has any threat of stealing I'm confident he will be on second. I'm only in my 20's so I haven't really ever seen a great catcher for the White Sox in my life, but I'd love to see us get a catcher that has a cannon like Karkovice. He was gunning people from his knees.

Ugly game tonight but at least we won. Good job by Juan for beating out that play at first. Santos looked solid again. I'm glad that outing against LA isn't sticking with him. Imagine if we had him as our closer at the beginning of the year.

Ditto.

I started following the Sox in 2004. So I've had to "enjoy" AJ, Sandy Alomar, and Big Ben Davis.

Johnny Mostil
05-26-2011, 11:08 PM
Yep. On top of the 2-13 performance yesterday, that's not a lot of heart in the heart of the lineup.

Wow. Thanks. (I think!) A hole in the heart of the lineup, indeed. Though I suppose Quentin and Konerko ought to be cut a little slack . . .

sunofgold
05-26-2011, 11:12 PM
We usually suck when we play in Toronto. Pitching & Pierre won this game for us...okay and Toronto defensive miscues. But, I will take it.

Pierre is still solid. Some nice 2-out RBIs for Juan. SB too if I remember correctly.

We are doing pretty good for a team with only 2 solid relievers and three guys really struggling this year (Rios, Dunn, & Beckham). Guess four if you want to count Morel. Imagine if these guys were hitting and Sale was pitching like it was 2010.

canOcorn
05-26-2011, 11:19 PM
I don't think Edwin will bring you a legit catching prospect, not when he's a FA after this year.

Danks certainly will.

Edwin most certainly brings Romine. Danks brings Romine and Betances/Banuelos.

Tragg
05-26-2011, 11:28 PM
Waste of a trade. 3b needs an answer. Catcher needs a young option for the future. Could probably find a defensive cfer who hits better instead of worrying about RF which actually produces offensively on occasion. Plus, better returns for Humber or Danks.

We have a young player at 3B who can at least field his position. We need an athletic outfielder of some sort....a couple of prospect would be fine.
Anyway, we don't need 6 starters...especially when we won't use them when we need them (the other night in texas, e.g.)

OmahaSoxFan
05-26-2011, 11:30 PM
That's why you lock it up now so he has security and we get him before demand would be there by other teams for next year.

Yep, I am more and more convinced after each outing by Humber that he could be the "real deal," as he is just pitching his ass off right now. Kenny needs to lock him up, and shop Danks or Jackson despite how much I would love to see the Sox keep all 6 current starters for next year to cover any injuries or Peavy if his arm blows up again, but it ain't happening.

Brian26
05-26-2011, 11:30 PM
I'm not a big fan of Ozzie putting Konerko in the DH spot to try to solve Dunn's mental problems. The last thing we need is Konerko on the bench or downstairs in the cage overthinking his swing and going into a funk. Let PK play first and let Dunn DH. There's no reason for Dunn to be on the field for defense.

chisoxfanatic
05-26-2011, 11:34 PM
I still can't believe how we won this one in the top of the ninth. I'll take any breaks we can possibly get.
Not only did we catch breaks in the 9th, but I seriously thought Patterson was safe in the 4th when he was "caught stealing." I'll take it too.
Humber has been great this year. The offense needs to wake up. I'm hoping to see the Sox get into second place by the end of this road trip.
Didn't you hear? The Sox bats are on a Humber strike!

ShooterMcGavin
05-26-2011, 11:37 PM
Gotta give credit to Pierre. He had the team's only 2 RBI.

Humber performs well again.

Toronto gave us this game though.

balke
05-26-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm not a big fan of Ozzie putting Konerko in the DH spot to try to solve Dunn's mental problems. The last thing we need is Konerko on the bench or downstairs in the cage overthinking his swing and going into a funk. Let PK play first and let Dunn DH. There's no reason for Dunn to be on the field for defense.

Who's the idiot who came up with this whole DH ruins a guys head thing anyways? Is there any evidence to this at all? I refuse to believe him being at DH takes away his ability to hit a straight fastball over the plate.

He hit a homerun the other game... then sat out a game. I don't get that decision. I think you just pick a spot and leave him for better or worse. This is who he is now - dh who occasionally plays D. Suck it up and make the best of it.

shingo10
05-26-2011, 11:39 PM
Funny you should say that.


http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) @MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales


Dunn to bat 7th Friday


Funny, Rongey was just telling a caller the other night how it wouldn't make any sense to move Dunn down in the lineup because there is no one that should be hitting before him. I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter where you bat him anymore. He gives you absolutely nothing.

LongLiveFisk
05-26-2011, 11:43 PM
I am wondering if Dunn is injured. Maybe the appendectomy, maybe something else?

I'm really, really just trying to find some other possible explanation besides that he just forgot how to hit once he put on a White Sox uniform.

Brian26
05-26-2011, 11:43 PM
Funny, Rongey was just telling a caller the other night how it wouldn't make any sense to move Dunn down in the lineup because there is no one that should be hitting before him. I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter where you bat him anymore. He gives you absolutely nothing.

There was an interesting call to Rongey the other day where someone suggested putting Dunn in the two-hole. The caller's reasoning was that he'd get better pitches in front of both TCQ and PK, while, IF he could draw walks like he did on Sunday, he would be on base for those guys.

balke
05-26-2011, 11:45 PM
We have a young player at 3B who can at least field his position. We need an athletic outfielder of some sort....a couple of prospect would be fine.
Anyway, we don't need 6 starters...especially when we won't use them when we need them (the other night in texas, e.g.)

Depends what you are trying to do. Even with all the terrible hitting on this team - Morel is by far THE WORST hitter on a team desperate to score runs. If you wanna build for the future and shed salaries.. go ahead and get prospects at OF or C.

I think the sox are still contenders. Get a legit 3Bman who can field and hit. If you are going to trade.

I'm not sold on the idea that 6 pitchers will last anyhow. Is Peavy going to give the Sox a full season? Can Humber and Edwin last all season? Id be happy to see. All pitchers stay til the. All-star break.

slavko
05-27-2011, 12:00 AM
Who's the idiot who came up with this whole DH ruins a guys head thing anyways? Is there any evidence to this at all? I refuse to believe him being at DH takes away his ability to hit a straight fastball over the plate.

He hit a homerun the other game... then sat out a game. I don't get that decision. I think you just pick a spot and leave him for better or worse. This is who he is now - dh who occasionally plays D. Suck it up and make the best of it.

Confusing them with good sound logic. That'll get you nowhere fast. But you're right, of course.

PeteWard
05-27-2011, 12:25 AM
They really should move AJ up now. Hit him 5th or 6th, and move Dunn to 7.

Done, according to Ozzie. i think he needs to sit against lefties as well.

Noneck
05-27-2011, 12:30 AM
Done, according to Ozzie. i think he needs to sit against lefties as well.

He has to play everyday. The only thing that can be done is putting him in different slots. He was the big off season acquisition and the Sox have to live and die with him in the lineup. The only way he gets benched for a period of time is if he gets injured.

kaufsox
05-27-2011, 12:35 AM
I think when the sox head to NL parks, Dunn should get a nice long break, or put someone else in at DH for a game or two. If he's as embarrassed as he says he is, watching Pierre DH should make him want to cry.

Falstaff
05-27-2011, 12:36 AM
"one of the 60 you are going to win no matter what" or something I guess.
Folks this is why we love baseball eh? I'll take it, put up a big fat W on board, but not for Walker.:tongue:

PeteWard
05-27-2011, 01:00 AM
Humber has been great this year. The offense needs to wake up. I'm hoping to see the Sox get into second place by the end of this road trip.

That means they will need to pick up 2.5 games in 6 games while at Tor and at Bos. Not likely.

But after their first home series vs. Det, yes, I think they can. Plus can make up a few on Cle who have some tough games ahead.

I'll take a 5-5 road trip followed by a solid home stand. That should put the Sox within striking distance of 1st if Cle comes back down to earth.But this horrid O tends to temper some of my enthusiasm.

TDog
05-27-2011, 01:09 AM
I'm not a big fan of Ozzie putting Konerko in the DH spot to try to solve Dunn's mental problems. The last thing we need is Konerko on the bench or downstairs in the cage overthinking his swing and going into a funk. Let PK play first and let Dunn DH. There's no reason for Dunn to be on the field for defense.

Not to mention Konerko is a better first baseman. Maybe that was implied. Dunn probably shouldn't be in the lineup at all, but everyone assumes he is going to hit eventually.

I missed the game, but it looked like a win. I liked the way Pierre forced the defensive mistake at the end. That's the way he's supposed to be playing.

Nellie_Fox
05-27-2011, 01:15 AM
I liked the way Pierre forced the defensive mistake at the end. That's the way he's supposed to be playing.Pierre has not always been good, but he always plays hard.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2011, 01:20 AM
Any time the Sox get a win in Toronto or in Boston or in Texas or in Minnesota or in Oakland (am I missing any place? :D:) it's cause for celebration.

Toronto gave the Sox the game tonight...I'll take it...the Sox have been giving games away like its double coupon day.

A 5-5 road trip would be wonderful.

Maybe they could actually get over the .500 mark with a lot of home games the next two months...ahhh the dream!

Lip

TDog
05-27-2011, 01:56 AM
Pierre has not always been good, but he always plays hard.

You are right. I didn't mean to imply Pierre wasn't playing hard in games when he hasn't played well this year. I should have written that this is how he should have been performing.

voodoochile
05-27-2011, 04:06 AM
Oh by the way...

Welcome to third place...

gobears1987
05-27-2011, 06:12 AM
I was devastated last night when I finally learned that Slash isn't real.

I needed this win for my psychological well-being.

Then who was the guitarist for Guns N Roses?

gobears1987
05-27-2011, 06:15 AM
Who's the idiot who came up with this whole DH ruins a guys head thing anyways? Is there any evidence to this at all? I refuse to believe him being at DH takes away his ability to hit a straight fastball over the plate.

He hit a homerun the other game... then sat out a game. I don't get that decision. I think you just pick a spot and leave him for better or worse. This is who he is now - dh who occasionally plays D. Suck it up and make the best of it.

Say what you will about the DH, but Frank Thomas's numbers went down when he was moved to DH. That is a fact.

kufram
05-27-2011, 06:29 AM
A win is a win is a win and we picked up a game on everybody. I haven't seen it yet but had updates on my phone at about 2:00 am. Humber continues to do the job as does Santos.

Re: Dunn... can't just not play him and definitely do not want to DH PK with any regularity. We have to suck it and see. At some point, and it could be as late as after the ASB, Dunn is going to hit a bunch out. He hasn't just lost all hitting capabilities. Let's just hope it's sooner than later. Have faith, it will happen.

October26
05-27-2011, 07:53 AM
Glad the Sox won last night's game.

Humber with another fantastic outing.

Thanks Juan for hustling all the way down the first base line .

Good to see Sergio close out the game.

Is the sports psychologist available to help Dunn? I actually feel sorry for Adam because he looks so lost every time he comes up to hit.

Hartman
05-27-2011, 08:21 AM
Could these jokers manage to get Humber a ****ing win for gods sake?

chisoxfanatic
05-27-2011, 08:30 AM
Could these jokers manage to get Humber a ****ing win for gods sake?
The Sox bats were on a Humber strike until he left.

tstrike2000
05-27-2011, 08:40 AM
The Sox bats were on a Humber strike until he left.

I noticed that was the title of your game report, too. A tad of wit from CSF.

palehozenychicty
05-27-2011, 08:46 AM
When the Jays tied it up, I threw the towel in mentally. They have owned us since 1993, in my mind. :D:.

Then I saw the Pierre highlight. We won! Bulls are dead. Somewhat bittersweet. :(:

Humber was a No. 3 overall pick, so some people thought he could throw the ball. As JB mentioned, he's never thrown beyond 150 innings.

I'd pawn off EJax. He's overpriced anyway.

soxfanreggie
05-27-2011, 08:53 AM
Humber was a No. 3 overall pick, so some people thought he could throw the ball. As JB mentioned, he's never thrown beyond 150 innings.

I'd pawn off EJax. He's overpriced anyway.

He definitely had to show tremendous talent and potential to be the #3 overall pick, but it's definitely a risk if someone hasn't thrown over 150 innings.

The stats are right there for him, but let's see what happens over his next 5-6 starts. I think there is plenty of time to make a decision on what to do with him contract-wise. If we do decide to trade a starter, it will be a bit of a crapshoot.

ChiSoxGirl
05-27-2011, 09:00 AM
I'm not a big fan of Ozzie putting Konerko in the DH spot to try to solve Dunn's mental problems. The last thing we need is Konerko on the bench or downstairs in the cage overthinking his swing and going into a funk. Let PK play first and let Dunn DH. There's no reason for Dunn to be on the field for defense.

This is an excellent post and one that I agree with wholeheartedly. :thumbsup:

SOXSINCE'70
05-27-2011, 09:00 AM
I was devastated last night when I finally learned that Slash isn't real.


"Then how did he play at my 5th birthday?" :lol::roflmao:

I'd be more concerned if you told me Tommy Lee wasn't real.:D:

ode to veeck
05-27-2011, 09:07 AM
Sign me up for the "stop putting Paulie at DH" crowd. Paulie is our best 1st baseman period...Dunne hasn't earned the right to do anything but keep moving lower in the lineup at this point.

palehozenychicty
05-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Sign me up for the "stop putting Paulie at DH" crowd. Paulie is our best 1st baseman period...Dunne hasn't earned the right to do anything but keep moving lower in the lineup at this point.

Yes. This statement is it. Mr. Dunn needs to work his way out of it.

hawkjt
05-27-2011, 09:26 AM
I was glad that Juan was up in the 9th,he is the only guy going well right now. 11 games ago,he was being hammered as hard as Dunn around here,but he seems to following the same pattern as last year...slow start,then slow climb back towards his career average of .303...way to come thru last nite,Juanie!! He was responsible for all three runs.

Ozzie dropped Dunn to 7th...good. Anything to take the self-imposed pressure off the guy..he is clinching it way too hard right now.

Humber just sails along. Really like his mound presence,and ability to throw strikes with every pitch. I hope the starters all stay in form til late july,then maybe move Edwin for one of the 3 minor league stud catchers the Yanks are hoarding.

I am glad they are getting this Toronto trip out of the way now,with the weather so crappy..at least they are not in 40 degree temps inside.

Chez
05-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Even though Humber deserves to stay in the roation when it shrinks back to 5, I think he will be sent to the bullpen. And he will be a GREAT addition to the bullpen, saving Crain from over-use. The Sox starting pitchers have done their jobs this year. If they ever get the offense to be just average . . .

asindc
05-27-2011, 10:32 AM
Not to mention Konerko is a better first baseman. Maybe that was implied. Dunn probably shouldn't be in the lineup at all, but everyone assumes he is going to hit eventually.

I missed the game, but it looked like a win. I liked the way Pierre forced the defensive mistake at the end. That's the way he's supposed to be playing.

This is why speed matters and not striking out matters. On the play that won the game, Toronto made two crucial mistakes: 1) The pitcher did not cover 1st base in time (though Pierre likely would have beaten him to the base anyway), which likely contributed to... 2) the errant throw to the pitcher, allowing Beckham to score.

Stating the obvious, the Sox do not score on the play if Pierre strikes out. "Well, duh!" you say? Well, there are those who say a strike out is no worse than any other out. This play is a perfect example of that not being true. Toronto is obviously not forced to make a play if Pierre strikes out with the catcher catching the last strike.

As far as speed is concerned, even if Toronto's pitcher had beaten Pierre to the base, the errant throw still could have happened because Pierre's speed is what caused the errant throw as much as the Toronto pitcher getting there late. Let's say it is Pauly on 2nd with Dunn batting. Let's assume Dunn doesn't strike and hits a grounder just like Pierre did. It is less likely that Dunn would have beaten the pitcher to the base, and it is less likely the 1st baseman would have rushed his throw. Which means, of course, Dunn was more likely to make a out on that play with no runs scoring as a result.

Even if Dunn had somehow induced the same errant throw, it is far less likely that Pauly would have scored from 2nd base. With that being the case, Santos' walk of the Toronto hitter in their half of the 9th would have changed Toronto's strategy significantly. Even if Santos had not walked the guy, playing for one run with three outs left is much easier than playing for two runs with three outs left.

Bottom line: Speed kills and always has, and strikes outs do very much matter. And I say this as someone who was (and still is) in favor of the Dunn signing, with the expectation that he would (and will from now on) bat 5th or 6th in the lineup.

LongLiveFisk
05-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Is the sports psychologist available to help Dunn? I actually feel sorry for Adam because he looks so lost every time he comes up to hit.

They might as well send him to one. It can't hurt.

doublem23
05-27-2011, 10:56 AM
This is why speed matters and not striking out matters. On the play that won the game, Toronto made two crucial mistakes: 1) The pitcher did not cover 1st base in time (though Pierre likely would have beaten him to the base anyway), which likely contributed to... 2) the errant throw to the pitcher, allowing Beckham to score.

Stating the obvious, the Sox do not score on the play if Pierre strikes out. "Well, duh!" you say? Well, there are those who say a strike out is no worse than any other out. This play is a perfect example of that not being true. Toronto is obviously not forced to make a play if Pierre strikes out with the catcher catching the last strike.

As far as speed is concerned, even if Toronto's pitcher had beaten Pierre to the base, the errant throw still could have happened because Pierre's speed is what caused the errant throw as much as the Toronto pitcher getting there late. Let's say it is Pauly on 2nd with Dunn batting. Let's assume Dunn doesn't strike and hits a grounder just like Pierre did. It is less likely that Dunn would have beaten the pitcher to the base, and it is less likely the 1st baseman would have rushed his throw. Which means, of course, Dunn was more likely to make a out on that play with no runs scoring as a result.

Even if Dunn had somehow induced the same errant throw, it is far less likely that Pauly would have scored from 2nd base. With that being the case, Santos' walk of the Toronto hitter in their half of the 9th would have changed Toronto's strategy significantly. Even if Santos had not walked the guy, playing for one run with three outs left is much easier than playing for two runs with three outs left.

Bottom line: Speed kills and always has, and strikes outs do very much matter. And I say this as someone who was (and still is) in favor of the Dunn signing, with the expectation that he would (and will from now on) bat 5th or 6th in the lineup.

It also helps when the opposing pitcher stuffs his head up his own ass and forgets to run to cover the bag on balls hit to the right side of the infield.

miker
05-27-2011, 11:09 AM
It also helps when the opposing pitcher stuffs his head up his own ass and forgets to run to cover the bag on balls hit to the right side of the infield.

We've given away enough games with our head up our ass, it's about time we took advantage of someone else doing it.

kevingrt
05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
We've given away enough games with our head up our ass, it's about time we took advantage of someone else doing it.

Between games lost because we played stupidly and bullpen woes we have given away more then our fair share of games. I'm loving this good luck streak now and hopefully our bats can get hot. Because this starting pitching, especially out of Humber, cannot continue all season long.

asindc
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
It also helps when the opposing pitcher stuffs his head up his own ass and forgets to run to cover the bag on balls hit to the right side of the infield.

As I noted in my previous post.

Bottom line: The Sox might not have won this game if Pierre had struck out on that play.

Jerko
05-27-2011, 11:43 AM
Sign me up for the "stop putting Paulie at DH" crowd. Paulie is our best 1st baseman period...Dunne hasn't earned the right to do anything but keep moving lower in the lineup at this point.

Plus, I read that Dunn's numbers are even worse when he plays first. Putting him there makes the team worse both offensively and defensively.

kittle42
05-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Plus, I read that Dunn's numbers are even worse when he plays first. Putting him there makes the team worse both offensively and defensively.

His career numbers are worst at DH (also the least time there), but not all that markedly different between OF and 1B.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b

DonnieDarko
05-27-2011, 11:53 AM
All I know is that Dunn's numbers are abysmal in August and not so good in September, IIRC. He really needs to pick things up in June and July (which if I also remember correctly, are his best months), or he's going to be looking like one of the worst KW signings ever.

voodoochile
05-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Sign me up for the "stop putting Paulie at DH" crowd. Paulie is our best 1st baseman period...Dunne hasn't earned the right to do anything but keep moving lower in the lineup at this point.

I believe it's an effort to get him on track offensively as he is struggling so hard with the transition (at least in theory). So Ozzie is putting him in a comfort zone and hoping it helps offensively.

jdm2662
05-27-2011, 12:01 PM
I really don't have a problem with Dunn playing 1b one or two times a week. Is it a bad thing to DH Konerko here and there to rest him? Now, if we are talking 4-5 times, then we have an issue.

doublem23
05-27-2011, 12:04 PM
I really don't have a problem with Dunn playing 1b one or two times a week. Is it a bad thing to DH Konerko here and there to rest him? Now, if we are talking 4-5 times, then we have an issue.

Right, and IIRC, one of the reasons Paulie credited having his best season last year at 34 was the extra rest he got when he DH'd with Kotsay playing 1B, so if Dunn is at 1B once a week, it's not that big of a deal.

The Immigrant
05-27-2011, 01:08 PM
1 year for $500,000 according to this site....

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/philip-humber/

Dude is most definitely one of the biggest bargains in MLB right now... something tells me his salary will have to rise just a little bit for him to stay here next year. :?:

I'm not sure how his contract situation works given that he only has a year of MLB service time, but I find it hard to believe that he'll be an unrestricted free agent. Hopefully someone knows the answer, but my suspicion is that he is at least eligible for arbitration - and therefore cannot sign with another team - for a couple of years.

voodoochile
05-27-2011, 01:18 PM
I'm not sure how his contract situation works given that he only has a year of MLB service time, but I find it hard to believe that he'll be an unrestricted free agent. Hopefully someone knows the answer, but my suspicion is that he is at least eligible for arbitration - and therefore cannot sign with another team - for a couple of years.

Well according to Cots he signed a 5 year major league contract with the Mets when he was drafted. He then spent a year with KC who DFA him. Then Oakland claimed him and DFA him and the Sox claimed him. So he's definitely been in the system for 6+ years now.

I don't know enough about MLB contract stuff, but assume he is indeed a UFA at the end of the year.

Edit: Cots too lists his service time as 1.0 so maybe he is indeed a RFA at the end of the year.

The hilarious thing is the A's grabbed him in December of last year from KC and the Sox grabbed him from Oakland a month later. KW getting the best of Beane again?

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

(scroll down - I can't link directly to Humber's info)

delben91
05-27-2011, 01:32 PM
All I know is that Dunn's numbers are abysmal in August and not so good in September, IIRC. He really needs to pick things up in June and July (which if I also remember correctly, are his best months), or he's going to be looking like one of the worst KW signings ever.

Did anyone really expect Dunn to be this horrible? I wont blame KW for not predicting Dunn would be THIS bad.

Nelfox02
05-27-2011, 01:35 PM
Did anyone really expect Dunn to be this horrible? I wont blame KW for not predicting Dunn would be THIS bad.

I didnt........I wasnt expecing greatness from him............but this? no way

JermaineDye05
05-27-2011, 01:37 PM
His career numbers are worst at DH (also the least time there), but not all that markedly different between OF and 1B.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b

I should imagine so. He only just got in the AL. Those stats compile 56 games. 40 of which he's played at DH this season.

Hitmen77
05-27-2011, 02:09 PM
It's great that the Sox won yesterday. But, if the offense doesn't get its head out of its ass, the next 6 games vs. Toronto and Boston could get very ugly. We can't always count on the other team flubbing plays to help us win.

I really have my doubts that Buehrle, Jackson, or Danks holding the Jays to 2 runs will be enough for a victory.

I'll be relieved if we manage to go 3-3 in the next six games to come home with a .500 road trip.

doublem23
05-27-2011, 02:32 PM
The hilarious thing is the A's grabbed him in December of last year from KC and the Sox grabbed him from Oakland a month later. KW getting the best of Beane again?


Maybe, although if there's one area the A's do not need any help in, it is starting pitching.

Foulke You
05-27-2011, 02:48 PM
Did anyone really expect Dunn to be this horrible? I wont blame KW for not predicting Dunn would be THIS bad.
Dunn was the best available free agent slugger on the market. Nobody can blame KW for this. Dunn is a 40HR 100RBI OPS machine that seemed to be the perfect compliment to our lineup. It simply hasn't worked out so far. I still have confidence that Dunn will find his way out of this funk.

TDog
05-27-2011, 02:50 PM
...

Bottom line: Speed kills and always has, and strikes outs do very much matter. And I say this as someone who was (and still is) in favor of the Dunn signing, with the expectation that he would (and will from now on) bat 5th or 6th in the lineup.

I agree with just about everything in your post and respect your position on Dunn, although I disagree with it. The fact that Pierre was running up the line put pressure on the defense. Two things have to happen after the first baseman fields the ball. The pitcher has to beat Pierre to the base and he has to be able to catch the hurried throw before or at the base while remaining in stride. If he misses the bag, he is too far past it to go back and tag it. The pitcher didn't forget to cover the base. People act like the White Sox won because the pitcher had a brain cramp. Most White Sox hitters wouldn't be getting up the line quickly enough to beat the pitcher to the base on that play.

Another thing about that play is that if the pitcher catches the ball and Pierre beats the play, Beckham probably scores without the ball being dropped. With two outs and a tie game or one-run lead in the ninth, Beckham is probably running if the pitcher covers because he has his back to home plate and is racing away from it. I don't know if Blue Jays' pitchers' fielding practice includes flipping the ball to the first baseman in such circumstances to throw the runner out at the plate, but the way that play played out, I wouldn't have expected such cool execution in the face of such desperation.

Crestani
05-27-2011, 02:50 PM
Maybe, although if there's one area the A's do not need any help in, it is starting pitching.


Neither do we..!!

TDog
05-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Maybe, although if there's one area the A's do not need any help in, it is starting pitching.

Although A's starting pitchers go down with more injuries than any staff I've ever seen. The Twins got McCarthy (not a pitcher the A's developed, by the way) and Ross in their starts after they were tough on the Sox. Both were injured in the two-game series, helping the Twins sweep. Ross suffered an injury throwing a pitch in the first inning of his game. Ross only got his chance because Braden was out with an injury.

Vin Mazzaro, the pitcher the Royals sent down after giving up 14 runs, was a promising A's starter before he hurt his arm and was never the same since. Mazzaro didn't give up a run until his third major league start.

The A's list of injured and burned out relievers is long as well. Still, they keep bringing them up and, with a few exceptions, the pitchers keep getting people out until they go on the DL.

asindc
05-27-2011, 03:18 PM
I agree with just about everything in your post and respect your position on Dunn, although I disagree with it. The fact that Pierre was running up the line put pressure on the defense. Two things have to happen after the first baseman fields the ball. The pitcher has to beat Pierre to the base and he has to be able to catch the hurried throw before or at the base while remaining in stride. If he misses the bag, he is too far past it to go back and tag it. The pitcher didn't forget to cover the base. People act like the White Sox won because the pitcher had a brain cramp. Most White Sox hitters wouldn't be getting up the line quickly enough to beat the pitcher to the base on that play.

Another thing about that play is that if the pitcher catches the ball and Pierre beats the play, Beckham probably scores without the ball being dropped. With two outs and a tie game or one-run lead in the ninth, Beckham is probably running if the pitcher covers because he has his back to home plate and is racing away from it. I don't know if Blue Jays' pitchers' fielding practice includes flipping the ball to the first baseman in such circumstances to throw the runner out at the plate, but the way that play played out, I wouldn't have expected such cool execution in the face of such desperation.

I agree that Toronto's pitcher did not "forget" to cover the bag, but I do think he momentarily forgot about Pierre's speed. Even so, I don't think he would have beaten Pierre to the bag, regardless. Looking at the replay, Toronto's pitcher broke for 1st base almost immediately, and if the throw had been on target, Pierre had him by a step anyway.

I have my doubts about whether Beckham would have scored without the errant throw, though. I'm thinking Cox probably at least slowed him up before seeing the throw go wild, wanting to make sure the inning kept going. It was likely only at the point when the throw went wild that Beckham hauled ass going home. That's just speculation on my part, though, and I could be wrong about that.

I know you preferred that KW had signed a defensive RF instead of Dunn, but I didn't see any defensive RFs available that would have given more production defensively than Dunn is likely to provide offensively. I don't like all-or-nothing, swing-hard-every-time-in-case-you-hit-far batting approach. In fact, I don't think it's a batting approach at all. There is far more skill involved in batting than that. That said, given the makeup of our lineup before Dunn was signed, coupled with the available FAs, I thought (and still think) it was a good signing for the Sox in particular.

Tragg
05-27-2011, 03:40 PM
The hilarious thing is the A's grabbed him in December of last year from KC and the Sox grabbed him from Oakland a month later. KW getting the best of Beane again?

Like how he snookered Beane for Adkins, Swisher, and Koch.

ShooterMcGavin
05-27-2011, 05:44 PM
He has to play everyday. The only thing that can be done is putting him in different slots. He was the big off season acquisition and the Sox have to live and die with him in the lineup. The only way he gets benched for a period of time is if he gets injured.


I agree Dunn needs to continue to play everyday. It's a tough position for Guillen; it's hard to sit a big money FA acquisition at this point, even if his play merits sitting against left-handed pitchers.

But if Dunn hasn't improved by June 27th...

That said, I do think it's necessary and an easier decision for Guillen to pinch hit for Dunn late in the game against a tough left-hander, under certain game situations.

TDog
05-27-2011, 05:57 PM
...

I have my doubts about whether Beckham would have scored without the errant throw, though. I'm thinking Cox probably at least slowed him up before seeing the throw go wild, wanting to make sure the inning kept going. It was likely only at the point when the throw went wild that Beckham hauled ass going home. That's just speculation on my part, though, and I could be wrong about that. ...

I didn't see the game, only the replay, so I don't know if Cox was holding Beckham or waving him around. If it's an out at first, the inning is over. The Sox have nothing to lose by waving Beckham after the first baseman flips the ball to first. You used to see that all the time. Sammy Sosa scored from second on an infield hit for a walk off win before he went to the Cubs and bulked up. If you're a runner with any speed at all, you're thinking about scoring on a two-out infield hit to the first baseman with the pitcher covering.

You are better off trying to get the run by putting more pressure on a defense in some disarray than your are waiting for the next hitter after the defense regroups. As it turned out, Ramirez hit a ground rule double after the error, so the point is probably moot.

As for Adam Dunn, even I expected he would start hitting a little bit before Memorial Day. I'm not going to suggest the Sox could have/should have traded Edwin Jackson for Sam Fuld. But I just never believed Dunn a big home run hitter would help the Sox if he also was a big strikeout, low batting average hitter without a strong defensive position. I think it was a move to pacify fans upset with Mark Kotsay DHing so much in 2010, although Dunn is as big a DH failure so far as Kotsay was.

But if Dunn reaches his career averages, he'll have to go on a tear, and that would help win some games.

voodoochile
05-27-2011, 06:20 PM
I didn't see the game, only the replay, so I don't know if Cox was holding Beckham or waving him around. If it's an out at first, the inning is over. The Sox have nothing to lose by waving Beckham after the first baseman flips the ball to first. You used to see that all the time. Sammy Sosa scored from second on an infield hit for a walk off win before he went to the Cubs and bulked up. If you're a runner with any speed at all, you're thinking about scoring on a two-out infield hit to the first baseman with the pitcher covering.

You are better off trying to get the run by putting more pressure on a defense in some disarray than your are waiting for the next hitter after the defense regroups. As it turned out, Ramirez hit a ground rule double after the error, so the point is probably moot.

As for Adam Dunn, even I expected he would start hitting a little bit before Memorial Day. I'm not going to suggest the Sox could have/should have traded Edwin Jackson for Sam Fuld. But I just never believed Dunn a big home run hitter would help the Sox if he also was a big strikeout, low batting average hitter without a strong defensive position. I think it was a move to pacify fans upset with Mark Kotsay DHing so much in 2010, although Dunn is as big a DH failure so far as Kotsay was.

But if Dunn reaches his career averages, he'll have to go on a tear, and that would help win some games.

If he merely hits his career average prorated for the next 4 months he'll be a major force in the Sox winning games.

Brewski
05-27-2011, 07:01 PM
It also helps when the opposing pitcher stuffs his head up his own ass and forgets to run to cover the bag on balls hit to the right side of the infield.

He got a late start. Plus a lefty's motion carries him to the 3rd base side. He should have learned this in 10+years of playing the game. And he has to be aware of speed at bat.

Brian26
05-27-2011, 09:43 PM
Like how he snookered Beane for Adkins, Swisher, and Koch.

It would be nice to have Gio and Sweeney right now.

Frater Perdurabo
05-27-2011, 09:50 PM
It would be nice to have Gio and Sweeney right now.

Agreed. And if we had Gio, we probably wouldn't have dealt Hudson for Jackson, either.