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doublem23
05-26-2011, 12:28 PM
Posey got TRUCKED at home plate last night

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15201655

Early, still unconfirmed reports are that Posey has a broken leg and is done for the season.

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_18145911?source=rss&nclick_check=1

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-26-2011, 12:28 PM
Fantasy owners weep uncontrollably.

Domeshot17
05-26-2011, 12:32 PM
Brutal for the game and Brutal for my fantasy team. Just got Yadier Molina off the FA wire. Talk about production drop.

doublem23
05-26-2011, 12:32 PM
Broken bone and torn ligaments:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/29590239

He might not be back until 2013

DirtySox
05-26-2011, 12:32 PM
Broken leg and torn ligaments. This has and will continue to spur debate about protecting catchers in vulnerable positions.

Neyer had a piece (http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/26/2191529/buster-posey-injury-mlb-rules) on it earlier today.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-26-2011, 12:34 PM
Broken bone and torn ligaments:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/29590239

He might not be back until 2013

Fantasy jokes aside, that is awful news. He was a big part of the Giants' championship, and he was one of the league's biggest up-and-coming catchers.

Hopefully he is still as effective when he comes back.

illinibk
05-26-2011, 12:49 PM
Broken leg and torn ligaments. This has and will continue to spur debate about protecting catchers in vulnerable positions.

Neyer had a piece (http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/26/2191529/buster-posey-injury-mlb-rules) on it earlier today.

I'm wondering if he is OK with runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?

TheOldRoman
05-26-2011, 12:57 PM
I'm wondering if he is OK with runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?The Hunter thing happened to Jamie Burke, and it was a worse situation since Hunter went out of the basepath to drill Burke who didn't even have the ball. It was 100% a cheap shot.

This is a horrible break for Posey and the Giants. From the looks of it, I am surprised he didn't get Robin-Ventura'd, though what happened to him is evidently worse.

The Twins have to be sweating today. I know the (rumored) plan is that they will move him to 3B in a few years, and that he takes infield practice regularly. Still, they might have to re-evaluate that. It is really risky having your best talent behind the plate.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-26-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm wondering if he is OK with runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?

It was actually Jamie Burke, but a lot of people seemed to not agree with what Hunter did, since Hunter went out of his way to crash into Burke when he had a clear path to the plate.

illinibk
05-26-2011, 01:02 PM
The Hunter thing happened to Jamie Burke, and it was a worse situation since Hunter went out of the basepath to drill Burke who didn't even have the ball. It was 100% a cheap shot.

It was actually Jamie Burke, but a lot of people seemed to not agree with what Hunter did, since Hunter went out of his way to crash into Burke when he had a clear path to the plate.

Thanks guys, I totally miffed on that one.

102605
05-26-2011, 01:08 PM
Fantasy owners weep uncontrollably.

I have him in 3 out of 4 leagues

WhiteSox5187
05-26-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm wondering if he is OK with runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?

After Santana got plowed last year at the plate there was a discussion about all of this and one former catcher, I forgot who it was, basically said that teams don't teach catchers the proper way to brace for a collision. I didn't see the play, but it sounds like it was a tough baseball play, but clean. I might change my mind if I see the video.

Foulke You
05-26-2011, 02:12 PM
It was actually Jamie Burke, but a lot of people seemed to not agree with what Hunter did, since Hunter went out of his way to crash into Burke when he had a clear path to the plate.
Hunter also brought both his hands up towards Burke's neck and head as he hit him. He didn't lower the shoulder in a tackle like a clean hard hit should be.

Foulke You
05-26-2011, 02:13 PM
Fantasy owners weep uncontrollably.
Tell me about it. I was one of them. :whiner::whiner:

TDog
05-26-2011, 02:13 PM
I was at this game, sitting in the lower deck between third and home. There was the hard collision, then the safe sign, which surprised me because from my position I couldn't see that Posey had dropped the throw from right. Then there was Posey not moving on the ground and quiet fell over the ballpark. It was a relief to see Posey move his arms, but it looked like the trainer called for the stretcher. when he left the field on one leg, he got a huge ovation, but after that and on my way home on the Muni and BART, there was no life in the crowd. You could hear people talking 20 feet away occasionally saying things like, we should have just lost the game in the ninth.

It was a great game up to that point. The Giants tied the game early on a steal of home after a strikeout on throw through to attempt to get the runner from first in motion on a 3-2 pitch with one out. The Marlins got a bases loaded double in the ninth to take a four-run lead, but the Giants came up with four in the bottom of the ninth to tie, capped by a two-out-two run single. Up to Posey getting hurt in the 12th, it was a loud night.

The Giants have been devastated by injuries this year. They were short one position player on the night because Ford twisted his ankle coming scoring the winning run Sunday. If he had been in the game running for Huff in the ninth, Posey might have won the game with his ninth-inning single. Fontenot had to come out of Wednesday night's game with an injury no one cared about on the way home. Sandoval still has his hand in a cast. DeRosa was hurt after coming back, and it looks like his career may be over.

But Posey is the face of the franchise, standing at the plate with that hockey mask atop of his head, as depicted on street banners in San Francisco as well as the popular imagination of Giants fans. He was a marketer's dream, an all-American young man, married to his high-school sweetheart and expecting Twins this year. He knows how to play baseball. He plays it hard and plays it well. He considered a start at first base a day off.

The Giants have great pitching, but Posey is the team's heart and soul.

Bummer about your fantasy teams, but you have to follow the Giants to understand what a huge loss this is.

Foulke You
05-26-2011, 02:24 PM
Bummer about your fantasy teams, but you have to follow the Giants to understand what a huge loss this is.
I like Posey which is why I drafted him high on my fantasy team. I never like to see good young players get hurt. Tough loss for the Giants but that pitching staff will keep them in contention, especially in the NL. Brian Sabean is just going to have to be a buyer at the trade deadline.

102605
05-26-2011, 02:31 PM
But Posey is the face of the franchise, standing at the plate with that hockey mask atop of his head, as depicted on street banners in San Francisco as well as the popular imagination of Giants fans. He was a marketer's dream, an all-American young man, married to his high-school sweetheart and expecting Twins this year. He knows how to play baseball. He plays it hard and plays it well. He considered a start at first base a day off.

The Giants have great pitching, but Posey is the team's heart and soul.

Bummer about your fantasy teams, but you have to follow the Giants to understand what a huge loss this is.

Posey will bounce back from this. He is going to be out the rest of this season and possibly some time next year too but he will work himself back as quickly as his body will allow. I adopted the Giants years ago when I lived in SF for a few years. The fans at least experienced the pinnacle last season and now they will have to fight through the injuries.

jdm2662
05-26-2011, 02:43 PM
If I remember correctly, I watched a bio show on Carlton Fisk, and his career almost ended with a collison at home plate when he was still with the Red Sox (anyone older than me can confirm this). To avoid these in the future, he developed a sweep tag. Obviously, it helped since he played until he was older than my dog...

TDog
05-26-2011, 02:51 PM
I like Posey which is why I drafted him high on my fantasy team. I never like to see good young players get hurt. Tough loss for the Giants but that pitching staff will keep them in contention, especially in the NL. Brian Sabean is just going to have to be a buyer at the trade deadline.

The NL is at least as competitive as the AL these days. I think the NL may have passed the AL as the stronger league, but there isn't a huge difference as there was in the middle of the last decade.

This season seems to be one of attrition, mostly with pitchers falling out of action. But it's up and down the rosters, and it's been that way for a couple of years. Look at the Twins. They aren't very good right now because Mauer is hurt and Morneau and Nathan haven't recovered from last season's injuries. Meanwhile, they an inconsistent closer who was non-tendered by the Pirates a couple of years ago for issues that had nothing to do with money.

Whiteside, the Giants' backup catcher, is probably as good a backup catcher as they come in today's game, but he won't be a No. 3 or 4 hitter in the lineup. And I don't expect much offense at all from his backup.

gobears1987
05-26-2011, 03:17 PM
That game was broadcast over here on delay. I didn't hear about the incident before watching the game so I was in shock. :o:

Irishsox1
05-26-2011, 03:36 PM
My initial reaction to the play was it was a dirty play by Scott Cousins in that he didn't have to launch himself shoulder first into a catcher standing off the plate.

After watching the replay Posey set up too close to the plate inviting the collision, as opposed to Burke who was set up off the plate where Hunter clearly went after Burke. Here Cousins goes in down the line, Posey appears to have the ball and set up for the collision. However, Posey is out of balance because he's distracted in that he doesn't have the ball and before he can move out of the way he get's blasted and his foot gets tangled.

In 1974 Carlton Fisk had a horrible knee injury from a home plate collision and after that never use to line up over or too close to the plate, he would line up ready for the sweep tag and this is what Posey should have done.

gobears1987
05-26-2011, 03:44 PM
The play is clean. It's just a freak accident.

102605
05-26-2011, 04:02 PM
The NL is at least as competitive as the AL these days. I think the NL may have passed the AL as the stronger league, but there isn't a huge difference as there was in the middle of the last decade.

Aside from the Phillies (who are not really healthy)....what am I missing here? :scratch: Cincy and I guess the Cardinals seems pretty good but I would still put a handful of AL teams ahead of them.

SephClone89
05-26-2011, 04:30 PM
I'm really upset about this. The Giants have always been my second-favourite team and I really like Buster Posey. Didn't hear about it until this afternoon...I'm in shock.

TDog
05-26-2011, 05:59 PM
Aside from the Phillies (who are not really healthy)....what am I missing here? :scratch: Cincy and I guess the Cardinals seems pretty good but I would still put a handful of AL teams ahead of them.

This isn't at all the point of the thread, so I probably shouldn't even respond. But I watch both American and National League baseball. I don't believe there is a big difference between the leagues when they play under the same rules. The good NL teams seem to have more complete ballplayers on their benches. I think the Marlins could contend for the AL East if they changed leagues. Maybe they don't have deep pitching, but neither do the Yankees. It's not a given that the Indians would be running away with the NL Central, although they swept the Reds in Cleveland after the Reds gave up two late leads. The Indians have lost four of five to the White Sox, and it isn't a given that the White Sox would sweep the Reds at home. While the Indians were sweeping the Reds, the Giants were sweeping the A's and their best pitchers.

Maybe someone will throw out an eye-rolling icon if you want, but there is no way to prove whether I'm right or wrong. The interleague play is limited, the scheduling a bit random and, although I think the NL has won more games than the AL this year, I don't think it means much.

Most people who believe one league is clearly better than the other are doing so out of prejudice and often justifying their prejudice with statistics that compare metaphorical apples and oranges.

If people at WSI really believed the NL was the equivalent of a minor league, no one would have been excited about acquiring Adam Dunn, whose career had been spent with losing NL teams.

Really, if the season were started over today, the Indians would be less likely to run away with the AL Central than the White Sox. Unfortunately, the Giants would probably not be able to get back to first with Posey out.

Nellie_Fox
05-27-2011, 12:07 AM
I'm wondering if he is OK with runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?Sliding into a base is not the same as putting your shoulder down and completely running through the guy like a fullback. It's not done at any other base, why is it allowed at home? Can you imagine the reaction if someone knocked the third baseman into the dugout in order to make him drop the throw?

fox23
05-27-2011, 07:49 AM
Sliding into a base is not the same as putting your shoulder down and completely running through the guy like a fullback. It's not done at any other base, why is it allowed at home? Can you imagine the reaction if someone knocked the third baseman into the dugout in order to make him drop the throw?

I saw that walking past a Depaul women's softball game once in college. I was horrified to see the runner absolutely demolish someone half her size at third base rather than sliding. About all I saw were the Depaul girls jumping up and down cheering on the "great" play.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2011, 10:21 AM
It's too early to know how Posey's recovery will progress, but I couldn't help but think about Ray Fosse as I watched that clip.

102605
05-27-2011, 10:23 AM
This isn't at all the point of the thread, so I probably shouldn't even respond. But I watch both American and National League baseball. I don't believe there is a big difference between the leagues when they play under the same rules. The good NL teams seem to have more complete ballplayers on their benches. I think the Marlins could contend for the AL East if they changed leagues. Maybe they don't have deep pitching, but neither do the Yankees. It's not a given that the Indians would be running away with the NL Central, although they swept the Reds in Cleveland after the Reds gave up two late leads. The Indians have lost four of five to the White Sox, and it isn't a given that the White Sox would sweep the Reds at home. While the Indians were sweeping the Reds, the Giants were sweeping the A's and their best pitchers.

You brought it up to begin with?

ode to veeck
05-27-2011, 11:40 AM
It's too early to know how Posey's recovery will progress, but I couldn't help but think about Ray Fosse as I watched that clip.

Rose won the all star game with that play that started the long NL streak that was broken at the 50th all-star game at Comiskey. It also ended Fosse's promising career. Earlier in the game Reggie hit a monster tape run HR off the lights atop the Tigers Stadium RF 2nd deck.

miker
05-27-2011, 12:01 PM
Maybe we can give them one of our catchers...

TDog
05-27-2011, 01:15 PM
You brought it up to begin with?

I expressed the opinion as part of a larger point in answer to a suggestion that the Giants don't need to be as good because they are in the National League.

The Giants needed Buster Posey last year to win their division, to win their division series, to win the NL pennant and to roll over the AL pennant winner in the World Series. The Giants didn't just win because they had homefield advantage because the NL won the All-Star Game. It isn't going to be any easier for the Giants to win without Posey this year in the National League than it would be for the Giants to win if they were in the American League.

Foulke You
05-27-2011, 02:41 PM
I expressed the opinion as part of a larger point in answer to a suggestion that the Giants don't need to be as good because they are in the National League.

The Giants needed Buster Posey last year to win their division, to win their division series, to win the NL pennant and to roll over the AL pennant winner in the World Series. The Giants didn't just win because they had homefield advantage because the NL won the All-Star Game. It isn't going to be any easier for the Giants to win without Posey this year in the National League than it would be for the Giants to win if they were in the American League.
I'm not sure if I agree with you. The path to the World Series and getting to the playoffs for that matter is easier in the NL. There just aren't as many quality teams overall. The Phillies, Marlins, and *maybe* the Cardinals are the only road blocks for them. There are far more quality lineups and pitching staffs in the AL that can beat your brains in on any given day. There isn't a nice cushy 10 game road trip in the AL with cream puffs like the Nationals, Pirates, and Padres on the schedule where you get to face garbage pitchers like Jason Marquis, John Lannon, Paul Maholm, James McDonald all lined up in a row like pitching machines. Take a look at the quality of pitching the Sox are going to face on this 10 game road trip. Ogado, Wilson, Morrow, Drabek, Romero, Lester, Bucholz, etc. Unless you are playing the Phillies and Marlins back to back, you just don't see that in the NL. The same can be said about depth of offensive lineups in the AL vs. the NL. Even a below average AL team like the Orioles still has a lineup that can bludgeon you to death if you aren't pitching well.

I'm not saying the NL is complete garbage but there just isn't the same amount of depth as far as quality teams. It's a very top heavy league right now. I will say that they have improved in the last couple years but there still is a disparity between the two leagues. It's why a team like the Giants are still right in the thick of NL Pennant talk because their superior pitching should be able to anchor them in the weaker NL until their GM makes a move to improve the offense. You are entitled to your opinion but this is just my take on it.

forrestg
05-27-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm wondering if he is OK wssibility oith runners sliding hard into second or third to break up a double play? Did he write the same article when Swisher broker Nishioka's leg? Would he write a similar story when a runner breaks his hand/wrist/arm sliding head first? Does anyone recall what was said when Torii Hunter ran over Chris Widger in a similar circumstance?
Yes, I do in Basketball they have a term called a flagrant foul. A catcher has to divert his attention to catch the incoming ball while the runner bears down to score. Jamie Burke was the sox catcher who escaped the intentional "taking out of the catcher by Torii Hunter who went out of his way to take to take our Burke who would have had no chance to make the play on Hunter at the plate but Hunter still took him out making Burke susceptable to a serious injury like Posey received.

TDog
05-27-2011, 04:17 PM
I'm not sure if I agree with you. The path to the World Series and getting to the playoffs for that matter is easier in the NL. There just aren't as many quality teams overall. The Phillies, Marlins, and *maybe* the Cardinals are the only road blocks for them. There are far more quality lineups and pitching staffs in the AL that can beat your brains in on any given day. There isn't a nice cushy 10 game road trip in the AL with cream puffs like the Nationals, Pirates, and Padres on the schedule where you get to face garbage pitchers like Jason Marquis, John Lannon, Paul Maholm, James McDonald all lined up in a row like pitching machines. Take a look at the quality of pitching the Sox are going to face on this 10 game road trip. Ogado, Wilson, Morrow, Drabek, Romero, Lester, Bucholz, etc. Unless you are playing the Phillies and Marlins back to back, you just don't see that in the NL. The same can be said about depth of offensive lineups in the AL vs. the NL. Even a below average AL team like the Orioles still has a lineup that can bludgeon you to death if you aren't pitching well.

I'm not saying the NL is complete garbage but there just isn't the same amount of depth as far as quality teams. It's a very top heavy league right now. I will say that they have improved in the last couple years but there still is a disparity between the two leagues. It's why a team like the Giants are still right in the thick of NL Pennant talk because their superior pitching should be able to anchor them in the weaker NL until their GM makes a move to improve the offense. You are entitled to your opinion but this is just my take on it.

Of course, it's just an opinion. I don't think the AL teams would hit nearly as well in the NL. Humber is shutting down offenses in Toronto and New York when they have DHs in the lineup, and I'm guessing Lincecum and Cain would do OK too. I believe the Giants would have a better chance in the AL West after the Posey injury, just as I believe the Marlins would have a better chance in the AL East. And maybe the Brewers would have a better chance in the AL Central.

But I don't see much overall difference in the quality of the two leagues.

manders_01
06-04-2011, 12:47 AM
Saw the comments (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6621135&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines) by Brian Sabean on the Rockies - Giants broadcast tonight and was pretty surprised. I've seen the video several times and I continue to believe that this this was just a freak, terrible accident. It will be interesting to see if there is revenge exacted in the future.

I also wonder why Posey refuses to return Cousins' phone call. No matter how pissed I'm sure he has to be, if he's watched the video I'd think he'd see it wasn't done out of malice.

AZChiSoxFan
06-04-2011, 01:24 AM
The play is clean. It's just a freak accident.

Exactly. And stupid Sabean needs to grow a pair, put on his big boy pants and stop whining about it.

Foulke You
06-04-2011, 01:29 AM
Something tells me if Pablo Sandoval plowed into Yadier Molina to score a run, Sabean would be hailing it as a hard nosed play. I understand the Giants organization's frustration at losing their best player but really, this is baseball, it ain't ballet and they need to just be quiet now. Some contact is going to happen and it was unfortunate that Posey's leg got screwed up.

vinny
06-04-2011, 07:37 AM
If catchers are going to block the plate or the baseline when they don't have the ball (which is against Rule 7.06), then runners are going to steamroll. There's no explicit rule about intentionally trying to dislodge a ball once it's in the possession of a fielder like there is in college/HS/LL (although Rule 7.09(i) makes it illegal to interfere with a thrown ball)

It looks like Posey was more in front of the plate than on the baseline and still got creamed, that's life, unless you want to ban collisions with intent to dislodge the ball.

tstrike2000
06-04-2011, 08:58 AM
The Giants need to shut up, IMO. Who wouldn't be upset when you lose a franchinse catcher, but what's done is done. Running over the catcher has been a part of the game for a very long time. What would be next? Outlawing spikes because a runner went in too hard into second base or making a pitcher wear a face shield in case a comebacker hits him in the face? But the Giants GM still "blasting" Scott Cousins and saying stuff like he'd be happy to never see him again or happy if he'd never play in the big leagues again is over the line. It didn't look to me like a dirty play. You need to move forward.

TomBradley72
06-04-2011, 09:51 AM
I don't think it was "intentional" by Cousins to hurt Posey- but it's clear from the replay that when he was about 10 feet away from the plate he turned his body to focus on Posey and not on touching home plate. I chalk that up more to bad base running than malice. From a pure baserunning decision- a fadeaway slide to the back part of the plate was the best bet- but that's a split second decision as the play is unfolding.

Posey was not positioned properly to block the plate- with his left leg extended and rotating- he was very vulnerable to any contact from a runner barreling into home plate trying to score.

Sabean is a tool- the guy in the suit should keep his mouth shut- the players will handle anything that needs to be handled.

TDog
06-04-2011, 02:09 PM
I don't think it was "intentional" by Cousins to hurt Posey- but it's clear from the replay that when he was about 10 feet away from the plate he turned his body to focus on Posey and not on touching home plate. I chalk that up more to bad base running than malice. From a pure baserunning decision- a fadeaway slide to the back part of the plate was the best bet- but that's a split second decision as the play is unfolding.

Posey was not positioned properly to block the plate- with his left leg extended and rotating- he was very vulnerable to any contact from a runner barreling into home plate trying to score.

Sabean is a tool- the guy in the suit should keep his mouth shut- the players will handle anything that needs to be handled.

Posey wasn't blocking the plate. He intentionally gave Cousins a lane to slide and avoid him. Even if Posey hadn't made that point the next day, you could see that he didn't move to the right or left to field the throw. It skipped in on target and Posey couldn't handle it. Posey said he didn't think it was an illegal play, but Cousins should have seen a clear lane to the plate. If you're a baserunner, your focus should be on the white of the plate, especially if you expect the catcher is going to block you off from the white of the plate.

The play was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen at a baseball game, not that I didn't expect a collision at the plate. But seeing the hard collision, seeing Cousins get up and Posey not moving after the umpire's safe call.

Of course emotions were running high. They didn't show the replay in the ballpark, but it was on television constantly, locally and nationally, in the days after the game. And no one ever showed the replay just once. Still, every time I see the replay, They show the hit in threes. The heart of the Giants is the great pitching, but the soul is Buster Posey. Then you see that Giants television commercial where Posey is one of the uniformed players trying to get the guy in the cubicle to blow off his boss and go to a game, and the play just makes you angrier.

It was an emotional end (for all intents and purposes) to an emotional game, and not one that you could forget about an move on from. Sabean's comments were made in the heat of the extended moment. He didn't go on the radio to make the statements, he was a regular guest of the program, and on live radio, he expressed what most Giants fans were feeling.

Sabean shouldn't have said what he did. I would like to think that had I been in his position, I would have been more diplomatic. I would like to think that if I were Cousins, I would have gone for the plate and not the catcher. The reality is, if I had the sort of emotional investment in the Giants that I do in the White Sox, I might have said some unfortunate things about Cousins on live radio. And if I were Cousins coming down the line with a go-ahead extra-inning run, I might have made substantial contact with the catcher. People who played baseball with me probably don't question that I would have.

It's bad stuff all around. But I wouldn't call Sabean a tool just as I wouldn't call Cousins a dirty ballplayer.

TomBradley72
06-04-2011, 02:21 PM
Posey wasn't blocking the plate. He intentionally gave Cousins a lane to slide and avoid him. Even if Posey hadn't made that point the next day, you could see that he didn't move to the right or left to field the throw. It skipped in on target and Posey couldn't handle it. Posey said he didn't think it was an illegal play, but Cousins should have seen a clear lane to the plate. If you're a baserunner, your focus should be on the white of the plate, especially if you expect the catcher is going to block you off from the white of the plate.

The play was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen at a baseball game, not that I didn't expect a collision at the plate. But seeing the hard collision, seeing Cousins get up and Posey not moving after the umpire's safe call.

Of course emotions were running high. They didn't show the replay in the ballpark, but it was on television constantly, locally and nationally, in the days after the game. And no one ever showed the replay just once. Still, every time I see the replay, They show the hit in threes. The heart of the Giants is the great pitching, but the soul is Buster Posey. Then you see that Giants television commercial where Posey is one of the uniformed players trying to get the guy in the cubicle to blow off his boss and go to a game, and the play just makes you angrier.

It was an emotional end (for all intents and purposes) to an emotional game, and not one that you could forget about an move on from. Sabean's comments were made in the heat of the extended moment. He didn't go on the radio to make the statements, he was a regular guest of the program, and on live radio, he expressed what most Giants fans were feeling.

Sabean shouldn't have said what he did. I would like to think that had I been in his position, I would have been more diplomatic. I would like to think that if I were Cousins, I would have gone for the plate and not the catcher. The reality is, if I had the sort of emotional investment in the Giants that I do in the White Sox, I might have said some unfortunate things about Cousins on live radio. And if I were Cousins coming down the line with a go-ahead extra-inning run, I might have made substantial contact with the catcher. People who played baseball with me probably don't question that I would have.

It's bad stuff all around. But I wouldn't call Sabean a tool just as I wouldn't call Cousins a dirty ballplayer.

I'm a Giants fan- from living in the Bay Area- they are my NL team- Sabean is an executive/senior manager- I don't think getting caught up in "extended moment" is an excuse- not for someone in his role.

Posey leg is planted almost exactly on the foul line as the ball bounces off his glove- I think a better approach would have been a fadeaway slide- but I don't think there was a clear lane.

TDog
06-05-2011, 04:05 PM
I'm a Giants fan- from living in the Bay Area- they are my NL team- Sabean is an executive/senior manager- I don't think getting caught up in "extended moment" is an excuse- not for someone in his role.

Posey leg is planted almost exactly on the foul line as the ball bounces off his glove- I think a better approach would have been a fadeaway slide- but I don't think there was a clear lane.

Cousins isn't the victim here. He instigated the criticism by going after Posey instead of the open plate. I'm not going to give him a pass and not give Sabean a pass for his comments.

SI1020
06-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Cousins isn't the victim here. He instigated the criticism by going after Posey instead of the open plate. I'm not going to give him a pass and not give Sabean a pass for his comments. It wasn't that open, particularly when Cousins would have begun a slide.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/716531-buster-posey-collision-is-it-time-to-change-the-rules-to-protect-catchers

TDog
06-05-2011, 05:16 PM
It wasn't that open, particularly when Cousins would have begun a slide.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/716531-buster-posey-collision-is-it-time-to-change-the-rules-to-protect-catchers

There was nothing illegal in what Cousins did. But criticizing a player for focusing on taking out the catcher instead of focusing on the white of the plate isn't out of line. The choice Cousins made leaves him open for criticism.

canOcorn
06-05-2011, 06:19 PM
There was nothing illegal in what Cousins did. But criticizing a player for focusing on taking out the catcher instead of focusing on the white of the plate isn't out of line. The choice Cousins made leaves him open for criticism.

And it seems that Posey is open for criticism. I do believe that Cousins had a better choice, but your blind allegiance for all things NL, and specifically the Giants, has clouded your mind.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6625504

TDog
06-05-2011, 07:54 PM
And it seems that Posey is open for criticism. I do believe that Cousins had a better choice, but your blind allegiance for all things NL, and specifically the Giants, has clouded your mind.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6625504

If this is a serious response, it was made with no connection with reality. I am going to assume you left out the teal.

Of course Posey is open for criticism. I have no problem with criticism. I have no problem with people criticizing Posey. I have no problem with people criticizing Cousins. I am pro free speech.

I disagree with people who have a problem with Sabean criticizing Cousins. I'm not demanding that they be sanctioned or warned by the mods or attacking them personally for their views.

canOcorn
06-05-2011, 08:24 PM
If this is a serious response, it was made with no connection with reality. I am going to assume you left out the teal.

Of course Posey is open for criticism. I have no problem with criticism. I have no problem with people criticizing Posey. I have no problem with people criticizing Cousins. I am pro free speech.

I disagree with people who have a problem with Sabean criticizing Cousins. I'm not demanding that they be sanctioned or warned by the mods or attacking them personally for their views.

What? I didn't attack Sabean, Posey, Cousings or anyone. I merely posted that Bench, who's opinion that I disagree with, blames Posey. I did comment that your posts are jaded by your favorite team, the Giants.

TDog
06-05-2011, 09:45 PM
What? I didn't attack Sabean, Posey, Cousings or anyone. I merely posted that Bench, who's opinion that I disagree with, blames Posey. I did comment that your posts are jaded by your favorite team, the Giants.

Bench's opinion has nothing to do with any point I was discussing.

And by the way, I own eight White Sox uniforms and a few jackets. I wear jackets out in public hear in A's country. My office walls are covered with pictures of White Sox players I've had autographed. Not totally. There is a watercolor painting a scene from Old Comiskey circa 1977 and photographs from 2005, including a huge Chicago night skyline with the buildings lit up to cheer on the Sox. I have a shelf filled with balls autographed by White Sox players going three high and two deep and a shelf where White Sox bobbleheads go two deep. I am leaving a few things out. I do have a Brewers cap from a ballpark giveaway about a decade ago and a T-shirt celebrating Tony Gwynn's 3,000th hit that I got at a Padres-Expos game in San Diego in the 1990s. I own no Giants gear or Giants logo merchandise. I don't think I own any orange piece of clothing.

I actually drive for more than an hour to see the Sox when they're below .500. And unlike many here, I like baseball enough that I watch other teams play. I know liking baseball is a novelty around here, but don't tell me the White Sox aren't my favorite team.