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View Full Version : *Official* 'End Of The West Coast Jinx?' CWS vs. OAK 5/15 Postgame Thread


soxinem1
05-15-2011, 05:40 PM
Could it be possible?

Great game by Buehrle again. We need it to rub off on Danks.

Little scary at the end again with Sergio dancing around the plate.

Just enough offense..... Again.

6-3 road trip, YES!!:bandance::bandance:

1989
05-15-2011, 05:41 PM
2005!!

ode to veeck
05-15-2011, 05:41 PM
*woohoo* Do Voodoo and I get credit for staying home today?

thomas35forever
05-15-2011, 05:41 PM
Great road trip. Could be the start of something good. Just nine games out of first now. Not impossible to overcome.

voodoochile
05-15-2011, 05:43 PM
Nice job all around. Some more spotty defense in the 7th or this game wouldn't have been this much of a nail-biter, but a win is a win is a win...

6-3 on a tough west coast swing. I take that anytime...

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

ode to veeck
05-15-2011, 05:44 PM
Now I can get back to the tennis, Djokovic trying to serve out the 1st set at 5-3 gets broken back on a 22 shot rally by Nadal. Nadal servinv at 4-5...

johnnyg83
05-15-2011, 05:44 PM
Nice to beat a tough pitcher.

October26
05-15-2011, 05:45 PM
Phew! My heart was in my throat watching that last inning. Sox win!: :bandance:

sunofgold
05-15-2011, 05:46 PM
We have had some tough losses in OAK before. Very nice to win 2 out of 3. Not Sergio's best outing however he definitely got the job done.

Hope that Santos is given a two or three run lead in his next save opportunity.

Slowly but surely the White Sox are getting back in the race. Only 5.5 behind in the wildcard. Most teams are bunching close to .500.

GlassSox
05-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Very good west coast trip, maybe Juan can miss the plane to Chicago.

Nice job today and they did just enough for the victory.

Woofer
05-15-2011, 05:47 PM
The game ended up closer than it should have been, but I'll take a 6-3 West Coast trip anytime. Santos is our closer, no doubt about it.

Soxfest
05-15-2011, 05:48 PM
6-3 trip now let's win some home games.

tstrike2000
05-15-2011, 05:48 PM
Great. Now we need to stop playing like crap at home.

JermaineDye05
05-15-2011, 05:49 PM
Wow. I had to walk away from the game for about an hour to feed and walk the dogs.

Glad I did. I would not have been able to handle that 9th. Nice to see another White Sox series winner.

Juan Pierre still needs to be taken out of the lineup.

ChiSoxGal85
05-15-2011, 05:50 PM
:bandance: another series win! Keep it up, boys!

I had to exit the room after Sergio walked Matsui. My BP couldn't take it! Nice job by Buehrle. Alexei definitely has Cahill's number, that's fer sure. But I cringe whenever Juan Pierre bats and/or a fly ball is hit to him. So how much longer does Ozzie wait for him to figure things out?

I really think the Sox have begun to turn this around...will it be enough?

soxinem1
05-15-2011, 05:50 PM
Very good west coast trip, maybe Juan can miss the plane to Chicago.

Nice job today and they did just enough for the victory.

Even Hawk got the Juan P. Error jitters on that flyball in the 7th Inning when he said 'can a corn...... is it?'

sox1970
05-15-2011, 05:51 PM
West Coast Jinx has been over for 4 years now.

08: 6-4
09: 6-6
10: 7-5
11: 6-3

at LAA: 9-4
at Sea: 8-7
at Oak: 8-7

JermaineDye05
05-15-2011, 05:52 PM
Offense still needs to pick it up. The last three games were really not that impressive from the Sox. We benefited greatly from some shoddy defense.

GlassSox
05-15-2011, 05:53 PM
Even Hawk got the Juan P. Error jitters on that flyball in the 7th Inning when he said 'can a corn...... is it?'

Yes that was funny and the 1st time that I ever heard Hawk add to "can of corn".

tebman
05-15-2011, 06:02 PM
Hoo-hah! It's about time. That game yesterday was too reminiscent of their traditional west-coast-trip behavior.

6-3 on the west coast is an omen! Good times to come!

:bandance:

1989
05-15-2011, 06:03 PM
Colby Lewis tomorrow. 31 BB to 31 K. I'm fearing the reverse lock.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2011, 06:17 PM
Showed some energy today. 6-3 road trip (have won 6 of last 8). Now let's turn the corner at home where the Sox haven't played very well.

Lip

PeteWard
05-15-2011, 06:25 PM
Great road trip. Could be the start of something good. Just nine games out of first now. Not impossible to overcome.

I'm thinking 5.5 which is Detroit's lead on the Sox. Cleveland will tank.

PeteWard
05-15-2011, 06:27 PM
If Ozzie learns anything from this trip I hope it is "more Omar". Please.

Frankfan4life
05-15-2011, 06:39 PM
Really great to grab another series win especially in Oakland against a tough pitcher. Thankfully the offense produced enough runs to back up a very nice pitching performance by Buehrle and overcome Crain's hiccup.

Hopefully Juan gets out of his funk soon. :praying:

Nelfox02
05-15-2011, 06:40 PM
6-3 looks a hell of a lot better than 5-4 for this trip-----still some bad things going on with this group but the positives are starting to off set them a bit (finally) and some breaks are starting to go our way for a change.

keep winning series and we will see where this thing ends up.....feel free to sprinkle in a sweep or 2 once in awhile tho guys...

JermaineDye05
05-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Really great to grab another series win especially in Oakland against a tough pitcher. Thankfully the offense produced enough runs to back up a very nice pitching performance by Buehrle and overcome Crain's hiccup.

Hopefully Juan gets out of his funk soon. :praying:

Hopefully he gets out of the lineup soon.

palehozenychicty
05-15-2011, 06:42 PM
Still some fundamental mistakes by the guys here and there. This time, they had timely plays to escape. Pierre should not even be playing, but Lillibridge can't play every day either. Mitchell is hitting .200 at Double A. Jordan Danks has been mediocre.

All we can do is hope that he turns it around...:(:


A 6-3 trip is good, though. :bandance:

Frankfan4life
05-15-2011, 06:50 PM
Hopefully he gets out of the lineup soon.
I haven't given up on Juan. He didn't cause the Sox's dismal record by himself. A few players are also having bad games this season and had them last season too. Why not kick all of them out of the lineup too?

JermaineDye05
05-15-2011, 06:52 PM
I haven't given up on Juan. He didn't cause the Sox's dismal record by himself. A few players are also having bad games this season and had them last season too. Why not kick all of them out of the lineup too?

The problem with Pierre is that he's giving us nothing.

His defense has been bad as has his offense. He's also been killing us on the basepaths.

fisk4ever
05-15-2011, 06:57 PM
If Ozzie learns anything from this trip I hope it is "more Omar". Please.

Agreed. Omar has whatever it is that makes a person a Baseball Player.

Frankfan4life
05-15-2011, 07:05 PM
The problem with Pierre is that he's giving us nothing.

His defense has been bad as has his offense. He's also been killing us on the basepaths.He's just the most recent player to make mistakes on the base paths but he's not the only one and he's not the only one making mistakes in the field and not hitting. I just can't understand why he's the only one garnering all of this vitriol.

LongLiveFisk
05-15-2011, 07:22 PM
Didn't get to see any of the game today but am very pleased to hear the final score and take 2 out of 3 yet again. I was expecting a 3-6 trip so the 6-3 we got is a very pleasant surprise.

Not so good weather coming, so hopefully the crowds don't look too dismal out there. I may take in a game or two myself on this homestand.

Overall, well done, guys! :D:

Taliesinrk
05-15-2011, 07:24 PM
He's just the most recent player to make mistakes on the base paths but he's not the only one and he's not the only one making mistakes in the field and not hitting. I just can't understand why he's the only one garnering all of this vitriol.

I think it's because with the others, you can see their potential and what they're capable of (e.g. Ramirez with his D and power). Juan's main asset is his speed, but he's been terrible on the base paths and even if he does rundown a ball in the OF, he drops it, etc. Hands down, the most frustrating baseball player on the team for me is Ramirez, but that's because it's all this stupid **** he keeps messing up (how to take a throw on a steal, swinging at first pitch in the dirt after a reliever struggles to find the zone - in a close ballgame, not knowing how to sac bunt, not being able to move a runner over, not adjusting his swing - or position in the batter's box... right on top of the plate - when some guy continues to own and jam him repeatedly with inside pitches, etc. I could go on). But at the end of the day, I know that when Alexei gets hot he's a dangerous player and can play outstanding defense. With Pierre's mistakes, I really can't point to a whole lot/anything that he can do that could make up for all his mistakes. That all said, I hear what you're saying. He hustles and you can see his mistakes aren't the result of apathy. Hopefully it turns around sooner, rather than later.

soxlady8
05-15-2011, 08:15 PM
If Ozzie learns anything from this trip I hope it is "more Omar". Please.

I agree !!!

doublem23
05-15-2011, 08:23 PM
6 of 9 on a West Coast trip bodes well for the near future. Be nice if we could take 5 or 6 out of the next 7 at home and get to a few under .500.

doublem23
05-15-2011, 08:25 PM
He's just the most recent player to make mistakes on the base paths but he's not the only one and he's not the only one making mistakes in the field and not hitting. I just can't understand why he's the only one garnering all of this vitriol.

Because he literally does nothing good. NOTHING. The only other guy on this team who is as worthless as Pierre is Morel, but nobody's mad at Morel because we all kind of knew he sucked. At least the other guys struggling, Rios, Beckham, etc. bring something to the table.

kittle42
05-15-2011, 09:50 PM
Because he literally does nothing good. NOTHING. The only other guy on this team who is as worthless as Pierre is Morel, but nobody's mad at Morel because we all kind of knew he sucked. At least the other guys struggling, Rios, Beckham, etc. bring something to the table.

Actually, an excellent summary.

StillMissOzzie
05-15-2011, 10:01 PM
Wow, west coast road trip and the Sox win all 3 series? Pinch me, I must be asleep and dreaming.
This team still needs to a) play better at home, and 2) reel of 9-10 in a row or so and get back above sea level.

SMO
:gulp:

TDog
05-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Offense still needs to pick it up. The last three games were really not that impressive from the Sox. We benefited greatly from some shoddy defense.

The A's, particularly in Oakland at home have the best starting rotation in the American League. Ross came into Saturday's game with an ERA under 3, and the Sox scored 2 runs off of him, and should have scored two more. Today Cahill gave up more hits than in any other start this season. Like Friday night, the game was ultimately decided by an error by the pitcher, but today the A's had a month's worth of defensive highlights.

You really have to sit in that ballpark to have a feel for how poorly the ball carries most of the time, although today fly balls did carry to left (taking nothing away from Raimirez' home run, but his previous fly out at the wall was deeper than I expected, and I wasn't sure Crisp's ball was going out). However, I was surprised Quentin's sacrifice fly stayed in the park or at least didn't get to the wall. The play on the Quentin ball in the rightfield corner was unbelievable. Konerko was doubled up apparently because he saw it squirt out of Jackson's glove. I didn't believe the play Ellis made on Rios when I saw it. And there was a wide stretch at first to complete a double play that cost the White Sox a run.

Cahill probaby still leads American League starters in ERA, but the White Sox, I think scored half the earned runs that he's allowed. And Cahill has pitched 14 innings against the Rangers this year, giving up only a solo home run in Arlington. The Sox should have scored more runs today, but the offense wasn't an issue.

Except for Cahill getting hit hard by Cahill standards after the third and making an error on a sacrifice bunt, the A's played a great game today. And the Sox still won. The Sox looked like a pretty good team today. Except for a bad start by Danks, a bad start by Floyd and a 3-2 loss to Felix Hernandez, the Sox looked very good on this nine-game West Coast road trip.

And with all the negativity around here, it was great to see games in Oakland where total strangers are giving me high fives just because I'm wearing a Sox cap.

russ99
05-15-2011, 10:47 PM
Because he literally does nothing good. NOTHING. The only other guy on this team who is as worthless as Pierre is Morel, but nobody's mad at Morel because we all kind of knew he sucked. At least the other guys struggling, Rios, Beckham, etc. bring something to the table.

Please explain. What are they bringing to the table? Rios has dropped fly balls. Beckham looks lost at the plate, Dunn doesn't play the field, and at least Juan puts the ball in play, and while he's getting caught far too often, he hasn't lost a step from home to first.

Is it that you don't like what Pierre brings to the table when he's playing well?

They're all struggling, why single Pierre out?

captain54
05-15-2011, 11:22 PM
And with all the negativity around here

You act like you're kinda surprised...with the exception of the first week and this road trip, have you seen the team play this year?

johnnyg83
05-16-2011, 12:32 AM
Please explain. What are they bringing to the table? Rios has dropped fly balls. Beckham looks lost at the plate, Dunn doesn't play the field, and at least Juan puts the ball in play, and while he's getting caught far too often, he hasn't lost a step from home to first.

Is it that you don't like what Pierre brings to the table when he's playing well?

They're all struggling, why single Pierre out?

Pierre's drops have been particularly ill-timed. I don't see every game so I don't know of Rios', but I know of Pierre's and I think that speaks to the gravity of their meaning.

He's also known as a base-stealer ... and he's not really stealing bases. If he can't catch and can't steal ... we already know he can't throw .. and can't hit for power ... you're down to a one-tool player who's one tool ain't working.

johnnyg83
05-16-2011, 12:35 AM
You act like you're kinda surprised...with the exception of the first week and this road trip, have you seen the team play this year?

Amen. The negativity was well-founded. Anyone who was predicting a 6-3 West Coast trip on anything other than delusion stand up and be counted. It would have been a guess ... a lucky guess.

And don't forget, we're still 7 games under .500. Let's not just start rubbing each other's backs just yet.

The good/bad news is we've played the fewest homes games in all of the MLB except for the Twins.

TDog
05-16-2011, 01:13 AM
You act like you're kinda surprised...with the exception of the first week and this road trip, have you seen the team play this year?

There's nothing wrong with letting yourself enjoy the baseball season, whether your team wins or loses. It isn't like you're going to get fired if the Sox don't win the division. No one from the Indians is going to come to your house and kill your dog.

If you were obsessed with negativity after the Sox lost to Felix Hernandez last week, you didn't get a chance to enjoy watching the Sox win six of their next eight.

I had fun this weekend, even if the Sox are still below .500. I had fun as a Sox fan in Oakland. And if you care to notice, the Whie Sox look like a pretty good team right now.

JB98
05-16-2011, 01:36 AM
There's nothing wrong with letting yourself enjoy the baseball season, whether your team wins or loses. It isn't like you're going to get fired if the Sox don't win the division. No one from the Indians is going to come to your house and kill your dog.

If you were obsessed with negativity after the Sox lost to Felix Hernandez last week, you didn't get a chance to enjoy watching the Sox win six of their next eight.

I had fun this weekend, even if the Sox are still below .500. I had fun as a Sox fan in Oakland. And if you care to notice, the Whie Sox look like a pretty good team right now.

Their overall record still stinks, though, and that makes this homestand a critical one. The Sox don't need to win all seven, but it would behoove them to go something like 5-2. The next road trip is a tough one, three in Texas, four in Toronto, three in Boston.

The Sox have to find some way to still be in shouting distance on June 1. This 6-3 trip is a good start, but there's much more to be done to dig out of this hole.

captain54
05-16-2011, 01:41 AM
There's nothing wrong with letting yourself enjoy the baseball season, whether your team wins or loses.

Following a pennant race, watching your team battle division rivals for the top stop, scoreboard watching, seeing the park filled with excited
White Sox fans, watching exciting victories on a regular basis....these are all fun activities for me.

What would be the fun of watching your team fail, and knowing that there is no chance in hell they are even gonna compete for the division,
and so all the games they play become basically meaningless?

What is the fun in that? I'm not following you.

MISoxfan
05-16-2011, 04:13 AM
Watching your favorite players do well. Watching young players develop and hope for the future. Watching to see if guys who are locked up for awhile fix whatever flaw they developed so that it doesn't carry over into future seasons. Taking each game on its individual merits and enjoying it isolated from the entire season.

TDog
05-16-2011, 04:15 AM
Following a pennant race, watching your team battle division rivals for the top stop, scoreboard watching, seeing the park filled with excited
White Sox fans, watching exciting victories on a regular basis....these are all fun activities for me.

What would be the fun of watching your team fail, and knowing that there is no chance in hell they are even gonna compete for the division,
and so all the games they play become basically meaningless?

What is the fun in that? I'm not following you.

It's mid-May. There isn't a pennant race yet. The dynamics that led to the team losing two of three games to the A's in Chicago (when the bullpen couldn't hold leads in what should have been a sweep) did not exist with the team in Oakland this weekend when the Sox won two of three. The White Sox are a better team than their record. They are a different team than they were a few weeks ago.

If you're not following why Friday and Sunday were not games where it was fun to be a White Sox fan, you don't have the appreciation for baseball that I do. And one of the things I appreciated this weekend was being around White Sox fans who didn't let their negativity get in the way of very good baseball.

kufram
05-16-2011, 07:19 AM
Following a pennant race, watching your team battle division rivals for the top stop, scoreboard watching, seeing the park filled with excited
White Sox fans, watching exciting victories on a regular basis....these are all fun activities for me.

What would be the fun of watching your team fail, and knowing that there is no chance in hell they are even gonna compete for the division,
and so all the games they play become basically meaningless?

What is the fun in that? I'm not following you.

I think the OP is implying that it hasn't reached that point and I'd have to agree. These games are what decides if we get interesting baseball later so, yes, it's fun to get the wins.... it is the West Coast... could have gone 2-7 or 3-6 quite easily.

asindc
05-16-2011, 08:16 AM
Following a pennant race, watching your team battle division rivals for the top stop, scoreboard watching, seeing the park filled with excited
White Sox fans, watching exciting victories on a regular basis....these are all fun activities for me.

What would be the fun of watching your team fail, and knowing that there is no chance in hell they are even gonna compete for the division,
and so all the games they play become basically meaningless?

What is the fun in that? I'm not following you.

If the Sox get to that point this season, I'll let you know how much fun I think it is.

kittle42
05-16-2011, 09:43 AM
Please explain. What are they bringing to the table? Rios has dropped fly balls. Beckham looks lost at the plate, Dunn doesn't play the field, and at least Juan puts the ball in play, and while he's getting caught far too often, he hasn't lost a step from home to first.

Is it that you don't like what Pierre brings to the table when he's playing well?

They're all struggling, why single Pierre out?

Because while they are all problems (Dunn's digging out of that hold lately), Pierre is the worst problem. Perhaps it is his lack of "luck" in being put in clutch situations in which his consistent failures are magnified. Yesterday was his worst game in which he didn't misplay a routine flyball all season.

Yes, all these guys are pretty bad; Juan is the biggest and most glaring issue right now. You can;t fix them all, so fix this one, and move onto the next.

LongLiveFisk
05-16-2011, 09:47 AM
Here's a good article on Pierre's troubles that probably sums it up about as well as I've seen.

www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2011/05/16/how-long-can-this-go-juan

kittle42
05-16-2011, 09:55 AM
Here's a good article on Pierre's troubles that probably sums it up about as well as I've seen.

www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2011/05/16/how-long-can-this-go-juan (http://www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2011/05/16/how-long-can-this-go-juan)

russ99, even you have to admit this column is pretty damn dead-on. Do you have any other response than, "Why are you picking on Pierre?"

doublem23
05-16-2011, 10:01 AM
Here's a good article on Pierre's troubles that probably sums it up about as well as I've seen.

www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2011/05/16/how-long-can-this-go-juan (http://www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2011/05/16/how-long-can-this-go-juan)

That is just dead-center on. Margulus was the writer for the now defunct Sox Machine, and is probably the best, most informed mind out there right now covering the Sox.

kittle42
05-16-2011, 10:03 AM
That is just dead-center on. Margulus was the writer for the now defunct Sox Machine, and is probably the best, most informed mind out there right now covering the Sox.

He should write columns about AJ, Beckham, Morel, Rios, Dunn, Thornton, Pena, and Sale, too! :whiner:

Zisk77
05-16-2011, 11:31 AM
Bunting never works for us.

tstrike2000
05-16-2011, 11:59 AM
Their overall record still stinks, though, and that makes this homestand a critical one. The Sox don't need to win all seven, but it would behoove them to go something like 5-2. The next road trip is a tough one, three in Texas, four in Toronto, three in Boston.

The Sox have to find some way to still be in shouting distance on June 1. This 6-3 trip is a good start, but there's much more to be done to dig out of this hole.

Pretty much. Just the circumstance they put themselves in by going on that 4-18 stretch. Like Charles Barkley said when asked why he didn't win in Philly, "Because we had bad players." We have a couple of really bad players on offense. Rios has shown a little spark in a couple of the games, but he's still batting .201, which just flat out sucks. We can't replace both him and Pierre in the lineup, so one of those two getting their head out of their ass would greatly help.

captain54
05-16-2011, 01:45 PM
If the Sox get to that point this season, I'll let you know how much fun I think it is.

That's Okay... I'm pretty sure I can figure it out for myself... I'm been thru a number of bad seasons, (2007, in recent memory), and I didn't find anything interesting or "fun" that particular year.

kufram
05-16-2011, 01:57 PM
My heart sinks when I see Juan Pierre come up with men on base. My heart sinks also when I see a fly out to left at a critical time. There is no arguing the fact that several players are having a horrible year thus far and also no argument with JP being singled out because he has done the most actual damage.

What I would say, though, is that most of these guys (Dunn, Rios, and even Pierre) are players with proven performances over enough time to expect (hope?) that they will be near their career numbers by the end of the year. That means that there should be some hot streaks due and even long overdue. Hopefully that comes with some good weather and at home. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Pierre does look lost to me and I do feel for the guy. He's not playing badly on purpose, you know. I'm not at all sure he can bring it back from where he is.... even the catches he does make look nervous to me. It's as if something is distracting him when he's on base. His head is definitely not in the game.

captain54
05-16-2011, 02:00 PM
If you're not following why Friday and Sunday were not games where it was fun to be a White Sox fan. .

"Fun" in the respect of possibly seeing what the potential of this 2011 club is capable of, then yes, I'd agree that its enjoyable to sit and spend a couple of hours or so tuned in.

Realistic Fan vs Negative Fan....this discussion has been going on for years on WSI.

You can call me a Negative Fan if you'd like, but I prefer to call myself a Realistic Fan. We're not far from double digits back in the standings, have to climb over 3 teams for the top spot, and still have some major issues personnel-wise on this team that are not going away anytime soon.

Sure, it's mid-May. The Sox could get hot, but so could the other teams in front of us, at which point, the only interesting thing this summer could be the selling off and getting a preview of how things could be shaping up for the future.

TDog
05-16-2011, 03:46 PM
"Fun" in the respect of possibly seeing what the potential of this 2011 club is capable of, then yes, I'd agree that its enjoyable to sit and spend a couple of hours or so tuned in.

Realistic Fan vs Negative Fan....this discussion has been going on for years on WSI.

You can call me a Negative Fan if you'd like, but I prefer to call myself a Realistic Fan. We're not far from double digits back in the standings, have to climb over 3 teams for the top spot, and still have some major issues personnel-wise on this team that are not going away anytime soon.

Sure, it's mid-May. The Sox could get hot, but so could the other teams in front of us, at which point, the only interesting thing this summer could be the selling off and getting a preview of how things could be shaping up for the future.

It isn't a question of negative vs. realistic. It's a question of watching the Sox play some excellent baseball in hostile territory with Sox fans into the game and excited to be there contrasted with the negativity of some here even in winning postgame threads. There are people who write that they are ignoring the games because they have determined that the Sox suck, yet they still post in postgame threads.

I'm a realist. I was slammed preseason because I was unhappy with the White Sox signing Dunn because I have never liked him as a hitter and because I wanted the Sox to acquire a top defensive right fielder and move Quentin to left. People triggered the language filter last year in responding to my insistence that Thornton wouldn't make a good closer. I can see the team still has some flaws, but I can also see it is much better than its record would indicate. And when Thornton is in the game late with a one-run lead, when Dunn is up to bat, when Pierre is chasing after a flyball, no one is cheering more for them to succeed than I.

I'm a realist. I'm also a White Sox fan. I'm not a White Sox fan because they win. If I were, I wouldn't be a White Sox fan. I know it's a novelty to some, but I really enjoy watching baseball.

If you're a White Sox fan who doesn't like baseball, I've been told the NHL playoffs are still going on.

kittle42
05-16-2011, 03:51 PM
There are people who write that they are ignoring the games because they have determined that the Sox suck, yet they still post in postgame threads.

One can ignore the games and still not ignore the team. I would imagine these are such folks.

soltrain21
05-16-2011, 03:55 PM
One can ignore the games and still not ignore the team. I would imagine these are such folks.

I'm one of them. I check the score at the end of the game, but I sure as hell am not going out of my way to make sure I see the team play.

captain54
05-16-2011, 05:10 PM
If you're a White Sox fan who doesn't like baseball, I've been told the NHL playoffs are still going on.

You've got me all wrong...I'm a huge White Sox fan.... I can't wait to sit down in front of the tube and watch 3-4 blown opportunities to score per game, with men on third and less than 2 out... now THAT's entertainment!

tstrike2000
05-16-2011, 05:20 PM
You've got me all wrong...I'm a huge White Sox fan.... I can't wait to sit down in front of the tube and watch 3-4 blown opportunities to score per game, with men on third and less than 2 out... now THAT's entertainment!

Well, try giving them a shot during this homestand. The offense still has too many guys that are barely hitting their weight, but they've been actually pulling out games as of late.

Lip Man 1
05-16-2011, 06:21 PM
Captain:

If I can interject. This seems to be a philosophical difference between fans like you (and I put myself in that category) who feel the thing that matters is winning and fans like others who feel that's nice but the experience of watching MLB and everything that's related to it is what matters.

Not saying one side or the other is right. It's an individual thing.

Personally I wouldn't care that much if the Sox played in a ****hole, with no beer served at all as long as they won the game and had a winning season but that's just me.

Lip

soltrain21
05-16-2011, 06:34 PM
Captain:

If I can interject. This seems to be a philosophical difference between fans like you (and I put myself in that category) who feel the thing that matters is winning and fans like others who feel that's nice but the experience of watching MLB and everything that's related to it is what matters.

Not saying one side or the other is right. It's an individual thing.

Personally I wouldn't care that much if the Sox played in a ****hole, with no beer served at all as long as they won the game and had a winning season but that's just me.

Lip

Well that's not a very fair thing to say since you live in Idaho and don't get to many games.

voodoochile
05-16-2011, 06:53 PM
Captain:

If I can interject. This seems to be a philosophical difference between fans like you (and I put myself in that category) who feel the thing that matters is winning and fans like others who feel that's nice but the experience of watching MLB and everything that's related to it is what matters.

Not saying one side or the other is right. It's an individual thing.

Personally I wouldn't care that much if the Sox played in a ****hole, with no beer served at all as long as they won the game and had a winning season but that's just me.

Lip

I don't think even TDog would argue that a winning season with a chance to progress to and in the playoffs is more fun than one the Sox stand no chance from day one or fall off a cliff mid-summer and flounder to a 4th place finish, but that doesn't mean that even in the worst of seasons there isn't some fun to be had. Are you and captain saying that you don't enjoy each win the Sox get no matter what the overall record is? I mean the worst season since I've been a serious fan the Sox still won 60+ times and that's 60+ times I get to smile over something that is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things. That seems worth something even if it's not the big prize that makes a given season a reason to jump up and down for joy, fall to our knees and thank whatever divine being we believe in for allowing us to be a Sox fan toward the end of the regular season or even later.

Like TDog I don't get the all or nothing mentality. The journey IS the destination in most cases and sometimes there's a nice fat reward at the end of said journey too.

Edit: if you add in the joy we get from the off season stuff including the anticipation of a potentially good season to come it seems there's plenty of joy to be had even in the worst of times.

DSpivack
05-16-2011, 08:09 PM
I don't think even TDog would argue that a winning season with a chance to progress to and in the playoffs is more fun than one the Sox stand no chance from day one or fall off a cliff mid-summer and flounder to a 4th place finish, but that doesn't mean that even in the worst of seasons there isn't some fun to be had. Are you and captain saying that you don't enjoy each win the Sox get no matter what the overall record is? I mean the worst season since I've been a serious fan the Sox still won 60+ times and that's 60+ times I get to smile over something that is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things. That seems worth something even if it's not the big prize that makes a given season a reason to jump up and down for joy, fall to our knees and thank whatever divine being we believe in for allowing us to be a Sox fan toward the end of the regular season or even later.

Like TDog I don't get the all or nothing mentality. The journey IS the destination in most cases and sometimes there's a nice fat reward at the end of said journey too.

Edit: if you add in the joy we get from the off season stuff including the anticipation of a potentially good season to come it seems there's plenty of joy to be had even in the worst of times.

I see myself as in between those two approaches, in a way.

I don't have much 'fun' watching an awful team on TV at home.

But, if I get to a game, it's still baseball, and if it's a warm summer day or night and I'm sitting outside at a ballpark I'll be happy just to be there.

doublem23
05-16-2011, 08:52 PM
I see myself as in between those two approaches, in a way.

I don't have much 'fun' watching an awful team on TV at home.

But, if I get to a game, it's still baseball, and if it's a warm summer day or night and I'm sitting outside at a ballpark I'll be happy just to be there.

Yeah, I'm right there, I enjoy when they win and I get a lot more into it, but ****, if I sit down and turn the TV on and the Sox are playing, I'll watch. Hell, this team is frankly so awful I kind of enjoy it. HOW ARE THEY GONNA BLOW TONIGHT'S GAME? Juan Pierre going to ground into 3 more double plays? Matt Thornton going to allow 7 runs? Brent Morel going to airmail another throw to first? Inquiring minds must know!

Lip Man 1
05-16-2011, 10:28 PM
Sol:

I've been going to Sox home games since 1963 and lived in the city until 1977 so I think my opinion is fair. I practically lived at Comiskey Park in the summer of 1972 with Dick Allen and that bunch.

I care about winning first and foremost. To me everything else is secondary, honestly I don't care that much about the beer, ambiance and such. That's just me. Not putting anybody else down who thinks differently.

Voodoo:

Interesting post. Thinking it over, I honestly probably don't get the enjoyment you're talking about in a bad season. That's just me. I try to forget as much as I can when the Sox are bad. Put it this way, in 2007 you had Mark Buehrle's no hitter and .........................................

See what I mean. There's nothing there (at least for me...) Ditto with 2009, 2002, the late 90's and so on.

Now I can tell you and remember a lot from seasons like 63, 64, 65, 67, 72, 77, 81, 82, 83, 85, 90, 96, 00 etc. That's just how I'm wired, and maybe it's because of what I do. I see a lot of games in different sports, the "thrill" of going to a game now isn't the same for me as when I was a kid. When I go to a game now regardless of sport I'm usually working it. I never get totally blase or take it for granted but it's different now.

Lip

LongLiveFisk
05-16-2011, 10:37 PM
Like TDog I don't get the all or nothing mentality. The journey IS the destination in most cases and sometimes there's a nice fat reward at the end of said journey too.

I know the '83 team has been mentioned ad nauseum when talking about turnaround seasons, but I would think the people who sat and watched them through their struggles found their eventual resurrection that much more enjoyable than the people who gave up on them.

Lip Man 1
05-16-2011, 10:43 PM
Fisk:

That's very true however at least with the White Sox it's hard to think that they will turn things around in any year when they start that badly. It just doesn't happen that often at least for them. I can't say for sure how often it happens with other clubs.

Looking back on 83 I was pretty disgusted with the start but I did have one thing in the back of my mind that gave some reason to think it could change, actually two things.

I covered the opening series in Texas and had the chance to talk with folks like LaRussa, Duncan some of the players in pregame and they just radiated confidence to me anyway and the other thing was (and this has grown in importance over the years having interviewed a half dozen guys off that club for WSI) was the team leadership that was present...Fisk, Luzinski, Koosman, Paciorek. Those guys, real "pros" in every sense of the word weren't going to let that **** go on if they could help it. And they didn't.

Looking specifically at this club this year I don't see those type guys in that clubhouse and that's not a knock on the players...that's not who they are (unfortunately).

Lip

BringHomeDaBacon
05-16-2011, 10:50 PM
Fisk:

That's very true however at least with the White Sox it's hard to think that they will turn things around in any year when they start that badly. It just doesn't happen that often at least for them. I can't say for sure how often it happens with other clubs.

Looking back on 83 I was pretty disgusted with the start but I did have one thing in the back of my mind that gave some reason to think it could change, actually two things.

I covered the opening series in Texas and had the chance to talk with folks like LaRussa, Duncan some of the players in pregame and they just radiated confidence to me anyway and the other thing was (and this has grown in importance over the years having interviewed a half dozen guys off that club for WSI) was the team leadership that was present...Fisk, Luzinski, Koosman, Paciorek. Those guys, real "pros" in every sense of the word weren't going to let that **** go on if they could help it. And they didn't.

Looking specifically at this club this year I don't see those type guys in that clubhouse and that's not a knock on the players...that's not who they are (unfortunately).

Lip
Greg Walker and Harold Baines

captain54
05-16-2011, 11:40 PM
Are you and captain saying that you don't enjoy each win the Sox get no matter what the overall record is? I mean the worst season since I've been a serious fan the Sox still won 60+ times and that's 60+ times I get to smile over something that is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things .

Of course there's joy in victory even during bad seasons. You try to get the feeling that each victory might be the beginning of them turning the page, like, maybe they've figured it out. Hope springs eternal and all that.

What everyone seems to be missing here is, this is a SPORT. It's about competition. Who's at the top of the heap at the end? If it was simply about the joy of the sport and the fun of watching professional athletes compete, win or lose, why have playoffs? a World Series?

In a horse race, the guy that bet on the last place horse down the stretch rips up his ticket and walks away before the race is over. The guy who bet win, place or show, is riveted until the very end. They have both invested, financially, one has nothing at stake and one has something at stake.

Sox fans are the same way...A financial investment at stake to some degree, but mostly an emotional investment at stake, and the pride
of knowing your team it at or near the top of the heap.

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2011, 12:01 AM
In a horse race, the guy that bet on the last place horse down the stretch rips up his ticket and walks away before the race is over. The guy who bet win, place or show, is riveted until the very end. They have both invested, financially, one has nothing at stake and one has something at stake.

Sox fans are the same way...A financial investment at stake to some degree, but mostly an emotional investment at stake, and the pride
of knowing your team it at or near the top of the heap.I think that's a bad analogy. The guys you're talking about are only at the horse races for the betting. They aren't there because they enjoy watching horses race. Once they've lost their bet, there's nothing for them, and they start thinking about the next bet. The only "emotion" involved is winning the bet.

I'll only speak for myself, but I can enjoy each Sox game for itself. I'm disappointed when they aren't going well, but I don't get angry, I don't take it as some sort of personal affront. Having the Sox game on has been part of summer for me for as long as I can remember, and I've been through some very dismal seasons.

Noneck
05-17-2011, 12:34 AM
I think that's a bad analogy. The guys you're talking about are only at the horse races for the betting. They aren't there because they enjoy watching horses race. Once they've lost their bet, there's nothing for them, and they start thinking about the next bet. The only "emotion" involved is winning the bet.

I'll only speak for myself, but I can enjoy each Sox game for itself. I'm disappointed when they aren't going well, but I don't get angry, I don't take it as some sort of personal affront. Having the Sox game on has been part of summer for me for as long as I can remember, and I've been through some very dismal seasons.

I don't think it is bad analogy, it is just a mind set that winning is everything. I feel the way you do though but things were different in my time and probably yours also. As a kid my summer consisted of getting up early to throw papers, get home have breakfast and throw a ball off the wall in back yard till the other kids got up so we could go to the park and play ball. As we played we emulated the players we saw on TV or at a game. I rarely had hope of winning a pennant but always wanted and hoped for the Sox to be a 1st division team. That was summer for me and I watched every game I could and listened to the ones I couldn't. That was summer for me along with getting bruised fruit for free from the fruit peddler for helping him rearrange his baskets on his truck and buying wahoo bars for a nickle from the good humor man. But most important it was playing , listening and watching baseball.

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2011, 12:48 AM
I don't think it is bad analogy, it is just a mind set that winning is everything. I feel the way you do though but things were different in my time and probably yours also. As a kid my summer consisted of getting up early to throw papers, get home have breakfast and throw a ball off the wall in back yard till the other kids got up so we could go to the park and play ball. As we played we emulated the players we saw on TV or at a game. I rarely had hope of winning a pennant but always wanted and hoped for the Sox to be a 1st division team. That was summer for me and I watched every game I could and listened to the ones I couldn't. That was summer for me along with getting bruised fruit for free from the fruit peddler for helping him rearrange his baskets on his truck and buying wahoo bars for a nickle from the good humor man. But most important it was playing , listening and watching baseball.Being a baby boomer, it usually wasn't hard to scrape together enough kids to get a game going, at least enough for a "right-field out, pitcher's hand" game. I could go right out my back door and on to the baseball diamonds (such as they were, rocks, dandelions and all) of Nazareth Academy (when it was still where Park Junior High is now in La Grange). If the school wasn't using them, the nuns didn't care if we kids did. If there weren't enough kids for a game, I'd draw a strike zone on the wall of the school with chalk, and imagine pitching to major-league hitters.

As for listening to the games on the radio, I can still remember the smell of the tubes heating up the plastic shell of my cheap radio while listening to the Old Commander Bob Elson mono-toning the play-by-play. Ah, nostalgia.

Noneck
05-17-2011, 01:00 AM
Being a baby boomer, it usually wasn't hard to scrape together enough kids to get a game going, at least enough for a "right-field out, pitcher's hand" game. I could go right out my back door and on to the baseball diamonds (such as they were, rocks, dandelions and all) of Nazareth Academy (when it was still where Park Junior High is now in La Grange). If the school wasn't using them, the nuns didn't care if we kids did. If there weren't enough kids for a game, I'd draw a strike zone on the wall of the school with chalk, and imagine pitching to major-league hitters.

As for listening to the games on the radio, I can still remember the smell of the tubes heating up the plastic shell of my cheap radio while listening to the Old Commander Bob Elson mono-toning the play-by-play. Ah, nostalgia.


I lived in the outskirts of the city, praries still existed so if the big kids had the diamonds at the park, we "borrow" our dads push reel mowers and make a diamond to play on. Many a busted lip I had getting a grounder on those lots.

Now I go by a park where I live and never see kids on the diamonds unless its organizied. All day the great diamonds are vacant. Times sure have changed. I am dinosaur I guess but it sure is nice to reminisce.

captain54
05-17-2011, 01:01 AM
If there weren't enough kids for a game, I'd draw a strike zone on the wall of the school with chalk, and imagine pitching to major-league hitters.

.

As a city kid, on the south side, the "fast pitch" game was really popular..lots of factories next to open fields to draw your "strike zone"
upon...we used 3 different baseballs . the 10 cent rubber, the quarter rubber and a regular league ball.... the 10 cent rubber was about 1/2 the size of a baseball, the quarter rubber was the size of league ball... the 10 cent rubber ball was hard to see and hit, so you lost fewer balls and didn't have to go "shag" if you didn't have fielders.... If you could get good at hitting the dime rubber, a regular baseball looked like a beach ball. I don't remember every really playing "fast pitch" with a real, hard regulation league ball.

voodoochile
05-17-2011, 01:10 AM
Voodoo:

Interesting post. Thinking it over, I honestly probably don't get the enjoyment you're talking about in a bad season. That's just me. I try to forget as much as I can when the Sox are bad. Put it this way, in 2007 you had Mark Buehrle's no hitter and .........................................

See what I mean. There's nothing there (at least for me...) Ditto with 2009, 2002, the late 90's and so on.

Now I can tell you and remember a lot from seasons like 63, 64, 65, 67, 72, 77, 81, 82, 83, 85, 90, 96, 00 etc. That's just how I'm wired, and maybe it's because of what I do. I see a lot of games in different sports, the "thrill" of going to a game now isn't the same for me as when I was a kid. When I go to a game now regardless of sport I'm usually working it. I never get totally blase or take it for granted but it's different now.

Lip

Yes, I can see how that would be important to you, given your love for Sox history and memorable events. I'm not wired that way at all. Yes I remember given moments from big seasons (83 93 94 2000 2005 2008) but I don't remember individual games or plays unless they are really amazing (the catch and the perfect game, etc.)

I tend to take each game as an individual act and hope I enjoy myself for those 3 hours, but if the Sox lose I don't carry it with me and if they win, it's just one game in the larger scheme of things. So I'll yell and scream for a walk off homer but then by the next day it's gone. Just as the no-hitter we were the victim of a week or so ago won't linger in my memory or affect my perception of the team long term.

As you said, there's no right or wrong way to be a fan and we all have different things we enjoy or dislike about a given team, a given game, a given season. My point was merely that I'd hope that even people who hang their hat on over all results can still get some fun out of a win or two, meaningless or not...

Noneck
05-17-2011, 01:12 AM
As a city kid, on the south side, the "fast pitch" game was really popular..lots of factories next to open fields to draw your "strike zone"
upon...we used 3 different baseballs . the 10 cent rubber, the quarter rubber and a regular league ball.... the 10 cent rubber was about 1/2 the size of a baseball, the quarter rubber was the size of league ball... the 10 cent rubber ball was hard to see and hit, so you lost fewer balls and didn't have to go "shag" if you didn't have fielders.... If you could get good at hitting the dime rubber, a regular baseball looked like a beach ball. I don't remember every really playing "fast pitch" with a real, hard regulation league ball.

We tried using a rubber coated league ball once, it just wasnt the same.

Remember the strike zone on the box? Same for a 4'8" as it was for the big 5'5" kid. And then the arguments if it was a ball or a strike. The pitcher always had the final say because how the heck could the batter see behind him. So the solution was you basically had to swing at everything, everyone was Vlad Guerrero . Fun times.

One more thing before I tick everyone off. We used to play homerun derby in the tennis court, no one in those days played tennis by me. This was played with a tennis ball and the ball was lobbed. Watching homerun derby on TV made us do that.

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2011, 01:13 AM
As a city kid, on the south side, the "fast pitch" game was really popular..lots of factories next to open fields to draw your "strike zone"
upon...we used 3 different baseballs . the 10 cent rubber, the quarter rubber and a regular league ball.... the 10 cent rubber was about 1/2 the size of a baseball, the quarter rubber was the size of league ball... the 10 cent rubber ball was hard to see and hit, so you lost fewer balls and didn't have to go "shag" if you didn't have fielders.... If you could get good at hitting the dime rubber, a regular baseball looked like a beach ball. I don't remember every really playing "fast pitch" with a real, hard regulation league ball.The paint would start peeling off the 25 cent rubber ball after you used it for a while. I remember the mini rubber ball, but never played with one. I always just saw those as a novelty.

I imagine we're boring the hell out of the younger members with our boomer reminiscence hijack.

Frater Perdurabo
05-17-2011, 02:33 PM
I imagine we're boring the hell out of the younger members with our boomer reminiscence hijack.

Not me. But I think I might be among the youngest (born in 1976) to have played lots of pickup games in back yards or empty lots, home-run derby, or running bases. I didn't get a Nintendo until 8th grade.

LongLiveFisk
05-17-2011, 02:51 PM
rThe paint would start peeling off the 25 cent rubber ball after you used it for a while. I remember the mini rubber ball, but never played with one. I always just saw those as a novelty.

I imagine we're boring the hell out of the younger members with our boomer reminiscence hijack.

Heck, the rubber balls my brothers used to play with completely burst apart once they had been hit one too many times. :lol:

doublem23
05-17-2011, 03:39 PM
The paint would start peeling off the 25 cent rubber ball after you used it for a while. I remember the mini rubber ball, but never played with one. I always just saw those as a novelty.

I imagine we're boring the hell out of the younger members with our boomer reminiscence hijack.

I don't even understand what the hell you're talking about... Why wouldn't you all just get the latest version of MLB Baseball for your Xbox and play online together???

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Noneck
05-17-2011, 06:50 PM
Not me. But I think I might be among the youngest (born in 1976) to have played lots of pickup games in back yards or empty lots, home-run derby, or running bases.

Now if you can say you played, off the steps, I will be impressed.

Frater Perdurabo
05-17-2011, 08:26 PM
Now if you can say you played, off the steps, I will be impressed.

We didn't have steps to play off of. :D:

Lip Man 1
05-17-2011, 10:20 PM
But I did.

Lip

Noneck
05-17-2011, 10:37 PM
But I did.

Lip


Oh I know all us older guys did but I havent seen it played in years.

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2011, 11:52 PM
Oh I know all us older guys did but I havent seen it played in years.I can't tell you how pissed my dad would get when one of the throws off the steps would be, in effect, "fouled back" and break the glass in the storm door.

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2011, 11:53 PM
I don't even understand what the hell you're talking about... Why wouldn't you all just get the latest version of MLB Baseball for your Xbox and play online together???

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch:Because it just didn't have the pizzazz on the 15" black and white TV.