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34 Inch Stick
07-08-2002, 08:48 AM
How did the Cubs get both Alfonseca And Clement for psycho Julian Tavarez while we had to give up legitimate prospects for Ritchie. I know Clement was nothing great going into this season but he was still relatively young and threw hard.

I feel so much despair. Why couldn't they have played well enough to at least take me into pre season football?

duke of dorwood
07-08-2002, 08:51 AM
The full impact of losing quality people in our organization, like Dombrowski and Evans, will cost us for years to come.

hold2dibber
07-08-2002, 08:56 AM
You guys are killing me -- where's the picture of that guy hurling when you need it?

The LEAPS backwords that this franchise has taken in the last few years are truly astounding. All the hope I had in 2000 is long gone. Can we please, please, please, kidnap Billy Beane and give him anything and everything he wants to turn this ship around? Imagine what a creative and savvy GM could have done with the talent stocked throughout the organization 2 years ago?

Pete Ward
07-08-2002, 09:16 AM
I said it in the spring, I'll say it again.

If we had a creative GM we could have gone after:

Vasquez (Mont)

C.Lee, Fogg and Wells could have gotten a SOLID pitcher.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
The full impact of losing quality people in our organization, like Dombrowski and Evans, will cost us for years to come.

Dombrowski I can see---but youre kidding with Evans

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey


Dombrowski I can see---but youre kidding with Evans dombrowski i agree, evans is better then kw that is for sure.,

Randar68
07-08-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
How did the Cubs get both Alfonseca And Clement for psycho Julian Tavarez while we had to give up legitimate prospects for Ritchie. I know Clement was nothing great going into this season but he was still relatively young and threw hard.

Sorry, but the Cubs also threw in Dontrelle Willis who is right now #1 on BA's Hot Prospect Sheet.

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Sorry, but the Cubs also threw in Dontrelle Willis who is right now #1 on BA's Hot Prospect Sheet. all too true, but really, wasn't he not rated that high or was considered a hot prospect?

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
dombrowski i agree, evans is better then kw that is for sure.,
if he were here and traded Thomas for Perez and the idiot Jordan would you think so

Randar68
07-08-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
all too true, but really, wasn't he not rated that high or was considered a hot prospect?

Lots of potential and not a lot of results when he was with the Cubs. It doesn't really mean he's the best prospect in baseball right now, but more so that he is the hottest guy right now, despite only pitching in A ball.

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey

if he were here and traded Thomas for Perez and the idiot Jordan would you think so since thomas has a trade clause b/c of being a (i think its a ) 5/10 yr as a player, that analogy is moot.

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Lots of potential and not a lot of results when he was with the Cubs. It doesn't really mean he's the best prospect in baseball right now, but more so that he is the hottest guy right now, despite only pitching in A ball. an extremely good point.......

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
since thomas has a trade clause b/c of being a (i think its a ) 5/10 yr as a player, that analogy is moot.

He'd waive it, once he gets traded the skills clause disappears.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
since thomas has a trade clause b/c of being a (i think its a ) 5/10 yr as a player, that analogy is moot.

its not moot--Im asking your opinion

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey


its not moot--Im asking your opinion i am sorry i still have to say its moot........... i am not trying to be a jerk, but are you asking when the trade was done and the 'of" we have or what..... i sometimes have a thick head in these scenarios. build me more of the scenarios

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:52 AM
moot is not the point--say Frank waived his no trade because he is from the Atlanta area

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
moot is not the point--say Frank waived his no trade because he is from the Atlanta area

Atlanta isn't taking on Frank salary. AOL is cutting down their budget.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:58 AM
thats not the point-----would somebody answer My question

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
moot is not the point--say Frank waived his no trade because he is from the Atlanta area ok......... i guess i can't get out of this the way i want......... i am assuming that chris singleton is gone......... well i would be hesitant on one point, i would like another prospect to come with that trade....... maybe not a top one but a new drafted or a mid level prospects...... everybody is tradeable imo for the right price......... i would then try to unload jordon for other prospects......... in addition did we make the ritchie trade

34 Inch Stick
07-08-2002, 11:00 AM
At this point in my troubled Sox existence a minor league star prospect is worth two things to me sh-t and nothing.

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
At this point in my troubled Sox existence a minor league star prospect is worth two things to me sh-t and nothing. and where do you think these players come from? from a well stocked farm, we can make trades for players we need and bring up the better players.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 11:02 AM
so youre saying you wouldnt mind if evans were here and traded thomas for the same two he traded sheffield for--man thats just crazy

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
so youre saying you wouldnt mind if evans were here and traded thomas for the same two he traded sheffield for--man thats just crazy why

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 11:06 AM
because there is no way jordan is gonna replace thomas or sheffield and perez is not that good

Randar68
07-08-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
so youre saying you wouldnt mind if evans were here and traded thomas for the same two he traded sheffield for--man thats just crazy

Odalis Perez is a couple days shy of his 24th borthday, has a 2.81 ERA, opponents hit under .220 against him this year, a WHIP below 1.00!, and he has averaged almost 7 1/3 IP/start, and has only 18 walks and is left-handed.

Sorry, but if we were able to trade Thomas and get a damn good #2 starter for today with #1 potential, and he's lefthanded, Thomas can walk.

You are nuts my friend. Good Pitching always beats good hitting. End of story.

hold2dibber
07-08-2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
because there is no way jordan is gonna replace thomas or sheffield and perez is not that good

Perez 2002 stats:

W/L: 10-4
ERA: 2.81
WHIP: 0.91
Batting Avg. Against: .218
BB: 18
Ks: 86

He just turned 24 years old last month. I'm still not saying I would be in favor of a Big Hurt for Jordan/Perez deal, but you have to give Evans credit on this trade. Sheffield was a clubhouse cancer, Jordan is serviceable, and Perez has been absolutely outstanding and he has the potential to continue to be so for years to come.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 11:16 AM
I still wouldnt trade or Sheffield for any pitcher not names Pedro or Unit

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 11:33 AM
and I still chemistry should left in a science lab

DrCrawdad
07-08-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
How did the Cubs get both Alfonseca And Clement for psycho Julian Tavarez while we had to give up legitimate prospects for Ritchie. I know Clement was nothing great going into this season but he was still relatively young and threw hard.


The Cubs acquired Altonseka and Clement. They sent Jose Cueto, Dontrelle Willis, Ryan Jorgensen and Tavarez for Altonseka and Clement. A number of Cub fans that I know are happy to have acquired Clement (given his success with the Cubs) but they feel that the jury is out on whether or not they gave up too much.

Sure I wish the Sox had acquired Clement instead of Ritchie. I'd bet that the Marlins would have been willing to take three arms for Clement and Altonseca. But from what I understand the Marlins were looking to dump the big salaries of Clement and Altonseka. Plus they weren't entirely satisfied with the production that Clement was giving them. The Cubs were willing to take on the two salaries of Clement/Altonseka. The Sox probably were not willing to take on the salaries. In addition, the Sox thought they had one of the leagues top closers in Foulke.

All this said, without any hesitation I'd trade KW for McPhail/Hendry. The moves McPhail/Hendry may not have worked out for the Cubs, but all in all I like most of the deals they've made - especially when compared to KW.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 11:35 AM
I agree with that 100 percent--about the only person I wouldnt trade Richie for is Navarro

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I still wouldnt trade or Sheffield for any pitcher not names Pedro or Unit i am soooo out of this thread i really don't know how to reply without saying, simple put, i don't agree....... and i am going to leave it at that...... :?:

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Sure I wish the Sox had acquired Clement instead of Ritchie. I'd bet that the Marlins would have been willing to take three arms for Clement and Altonseca. But from what I understand the Marlins were looking to dump the big salaries of Clement and Altonseka. Plus they weren't entirely satisfied with the production that Clement was giving them. The Cubs were willing to take on the two salaries of Clement/Altonseka. The Sox probably were not willing to take on the salaries. In addition, the Sox thought they had one of the leagues top closers in Foulke.


And if Gordon doesn't get hurt they have neither of the two. Clement can't be making much more than the Garlands' and Buehrles' of the world.