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View Full Version : Sox Demote Jeff Gray (to make room for Peavy)


Hitmen77
05-11-2011, 01:09 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-sox-demote-gray-to-make-way-for-peavy-20110511,0,4651552.story?track=rss

"Designated for assignment" according to this report.

thomas35forever
05-11-2011, 01:16 PM
Thanks for..I don't know.

kittle42
05-11-2011, 01:17 PM
A non-move, as he would have been despised as soon as his OK run was over.

Now, releasing Tony Pena? That would be a wise move.

Rohan
05-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the good couple of innings yesterday, Gray.

JermaineDye05
05-11-2011, 01:43 PM
A non-move, as he would have been despised as soon as his OK run was over.

Now, releasing Tony Pena? That would be a wise move.

I'd rather release AJ and/or Pierre.

The Immigrant
05-11-2011, 01:46 PM
I'd rather release AJ and/or Pierre.

How about a two for one special?

kittle42
05-11-2011, 01:47 PM
I'd rather release AJ and/or Pierre.

Hey, I agree - didn't want it to be an either/or situation!

I actually think both of the above have trade value. I expect Pierre to again be shipped off to the NL in July, and AJ to any contender who needs a catcher who can hit .250.

Noneck
05-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Something can be got for AJ and Pierre if salary is eaten. Releasing either would get the team nothing and they would still have to pay them.

JermaineDye05
05-11-2011, 02:07 PM
Something can be got for AJ and Pierre if salary is eaten. Releasing either would get the team nothing and they would still have to pay them.

Yeah, but they wouldn't have to play them. That's key for me.

Noneck
05-11-2011, 02:17 PM
Yeah, but they wouldn't have to play them. That's key for me.

I would love to see Lucy get another shot but I am not convinced on Viciedo at this point.

kittle42
05-11-2011, 02:34 PM
I would love to see Lucy get another shot but I am not convinced on Viciedo at this point.

Donny Lucy is the very definition of "organizational depth." He's, at best, on level with the worst backups in MLB.

Viciedo - will he ever be able to consistently hit or actually hold a ball in his glove? That remains to be seen, but for this organization, he's actually a high-end prospect. Scary, isn't it?

voodoochile
05-11-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah, but they wouldn't have to play them. That's key for me.

Just curious, you gonna install Castro as the starter, bring up :dunno: to be back up...

tstrike2000
05-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Should've demoted Pena.

Noneck
05-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Donny Lucy is the very definition of "organizational depth." He's, at best, on level with the worst backups in MLB.



Maybe so but I would just love to know one way or another. A lost year is the perfect time to verify this. He is good defensive catcher and to me that would be kind of fun to watch.

Daver
05-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Maybe so but I would just love to know one way or another. A lost year is the perfect time to verify this. He is good defensive catcher and to me that would be kind of fun to watch.

His best defensive trait is catching a knuckleballer, not exactly a high demand on this team.

JermaineDye05
05-11-2011, 03:21 PM
Just curious, you gonna install Castro as the starter, bring up :dunno: to be back up...

Flowers or Castro to start.

Either way we'll probably get the same offensive and defensive production.

The one perk is they won't act like a baby when they pop-up or ground into a dp for the umpteenth time.

Daver
05-11-2011, 03:43 PM
Flowers or Castro to start.



That would be a hoot.

tacosalbarojas
05-11-2011, 03:49 PM
Sad that Gray got caught up in a numbers game (salary and roster). Guy did nothing but get guys out, including a very nice effort last night. I'm sure we'll see him again.

TomBradley72
05-11-2011, 04:04 PM
Too bad KW pulled a "MacDougal/Teahen" multi year contract with Ohmann- I'd rather have Ohmann gone than Gray.

Noneck
05-11-2011, 04:19 PM
His best defensive trait is catching a knuckleballer, not exactly a high demand on this team.

What other knuckleballers are in the system? I assume he caught Haeger.

BringHomeDaBacon
05-11-2011, 04:27 PM
Something can be got for AJ and Pierre if salary is eaten. Releasing either would get the team nothing and they would still have to pay them.

I can already hear the laughter on the other end of the line.

Daver
05-11-2011, 04:35 PM
What other knuckleballers are in the system? I assume he caught Haeger.

There aren't any.

TDog
05-11-2011, 04:49 PM
I don't think there is any surprise here. I think the reason Gray came in last night for three innings last night was to save the bullpen. That seemed his major role on the team, and to his credit he performed it well.

There is no way a position player would be cut. I wasn't happy with the composition of the everyday players in March, and I'm not happy now, but it is what it is. I would rather see the Sox filed a team with a great defensive catcher, regardless of his offense. I would rather see Quentin in left and a great defensive outfielder with a cannon for an arm in right. Insisting on a lead-off man who steals bases is especially counterproductive when he leads or approaches leading the league both in being caught stealing and dropping fly balls.

But cutting Pierzynski or Pierre would be counterproductive because they are better than the present alternative.

voodoochile
05-11-2011, 04:51 PM
That would be a hoot.

I have a different set of euphamisms I would use to describe that situation.

I do find it funny that to solve the offensive problem that is AJP (nevermind the other stuff he brings to the team) JD05 wants to bring up Tyler Flowers of the .788 OPS in AAA who is still striking out 1/3 AB. Mostly it seems because AJ gets upset when he fails to hit the ball well... sigh...

kittle42
05-11-2011, 05:01 PM
I do find it funny that to solve the offensive problem that is AJP (nevermind the other stuff he brings to the team) JD05 wants to bring up Tyler Flowers of the .788 OPS in AAA who is still striking out 1/3 AB. Mostly it seems because AJ gets upset when he fails to hit the ball well... sigh...

Ha. Catcher is such a garbage offensive position that AJ is still over the past few years in the top half of offensive starting catchers in the league. Yikes!

Daver
05-11-2011, 05:02 PM
I have a different set of euphamisms I would use to describe that situation.

I do find it funny that to solve the offensive problem that is AJP (nevermind the other stuff he brings to the team) JD05 wants to bring up Tyler Flowers of the .788 OPS in AAA who is still striking out 1/3 AB. Mostly it seems because AJ gets upset when he fails to hit the ball well... sigh...

Flowers would get plenty of exercise shagging passed balls though, since he struggles to catch anything that sinks.

voodoochile
05-11-2011, 05:22 PM
ha. Catcher is such a garbage offensive position that aj is still over the past few years in the top half of offensive starting catchers in the league. Yikes!

ikr

JermaineDye05
05-11-2011, 05:43 PM
I have a different set of euphamisms I would use to describe that situation.

I do find it funny that to solve the offensive problem that is AJP (nevermind the other stuff he brings to the team) JD05 wants to bring up Tyler Flowers of the .788 OPS in AAA who is still striking out 1/3 AB. Mostly it seems because AJ gets upset when he fails to hit the ball well... sigh...

It's not just the offensive problems with AJ. He appears to be declining defensively. We already know he can't throw anybody out. At this point, I'm willing to give someone else a shot.

Daver
05-11-2011, 05:50 PM
It's not just the offensive problems with AJ. He appears to be declining defensively. We already know he can't throw anybody out. At this point, I'm willing to give someone else a shot.

His defensive strengths are calling pitches and getting in the opponents head, how, exactly, does one judge a decline in something like this?

BringHomeDaBacon
05-11-2011, 05:55 PM
His defensive strengths are calling pitches and getting in the opponents head, how, exactly, does one judge a decline in something like this?

You might as well have listed grindiness as a strength.

Brian26
05-11-2011, 07:25 PM
It's not just the offensive problems with AJ. He appears to be declining defensively. We already know he can't throw anybody out. At this point, I'm willing to give someone else a shot.

We've only got two pitchers on our staff that can hold runners on base. A guy behind the plate with a cannon wouldn't be able to throw out runners consistently trying to steal on these guys.

Tragg
05-11-2011, 08:08 PM
We don't have anything close to a replacement or AJ, from what I can tell.

Now Pierre? If someone will give us something for him, by all means.


Gray's pitched well most outings.

MikeW
05-11-2011, 08:20 PM
Should've demoted Pena.
Those were my thoughts exactly.

soxinem1
05-12-2011, 12:04 AM
Donny Lucy is the very definition of "organizational depth." He's, at best, on level with the worst backups in MLB.

Viciedo - will he ever be able to consistently hit or actually hold a ball in his glove? That remains to be seen, but for this organization, he's actually a high-end prospect. Scary, isn't it?

I think Donny Lucy was the last catcher to throw out an opposing base-stealer.

I've always believed the so-called hot shot Cuban prospects have been over-rated, however Viciedo looked pretty good in RF in ST before he got hurt. He's above .300 in AAA now, maybe they should put him somewhere.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-12-2011, 02:28 AM
Gray surprisingly did well ever time he was given an opportunity. He never really pitched in an important game situation if I can remember correctly, but he did a solid job either way. Pena should be gone, IMO, but I guess we'll have to wait a little longer until the organization realizes how bad he actually is.

Soxfest
05-12-2011, 08:35 AM
Pena should of been DFA.:angry:

voodoochile
05-12-2011, 11:20 AM
Pena should of been DFA.:angry:

No he really shouldn't have and honestly you people are embarrassing yourselves... :rolleyes:

Hitmen77
05-12-2011, 03:22 PM
I'd rather release AJ and/or Pierre.

I would love to see Lucy get another shot but I am not convinced on Viciedo at this point.

Maybe so but I would just love to know one way or another. A lost year is the perfect time to verify this. He is good defensive catcher and to me that would be kind of fun to watch.

Wow, reading this is really depressing. I know the Sox have dug themselves in a huge hole, but I think it's a bit early to just give up on the season and go with a Lucy experiment.

I'm not disputing the lousy play of Pierre and AJ, but any dumping of AJ this year would be totally giving up (anyone that would replace him would be a downgrade)....and May 12 is a bit early to do that.

Noneck
05-12-2011, 03:33 PM
Wow, reading this is really depressing. I know the Sox have dug themselves in a huge hole, but I think it's a bit early to just give up on the season and go with a Lucy experiment.

I'm disputing the lousy play of Pierre and AJ, but any dumping of AJ this year would be totally giving up (anyone that would replace him would be a downgrade)....and May 12 is a bit early to do that.


Yea it is but for some odd reason, I just want to see Lucy get a shot maybe he is nothing and probably is because MLB scouts are a heck of a lot smarter than me.

Ok you talked me out of it, Ill take back what I said until further notice.

eriqjaffe
05-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Here's a show I'm not sure I want to see.

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/496/hereslucy00.jpg

Hitmen77
05-12-2011, 04:05 PM
Yea it is but for some odd reason, I just want to see Lucy get a shot maybe he is nothing and probably is because MLB scouts are a heck of a lot smarter than me.

Ok you talked me out of it, Ill take back what I said until further notice.

I agree with you, though, that AJ and Pierre are very frustrating to watch.

(I meant to say "I'm not disputing..." in my original post and I have corrected that typo).

TDog
05-12-2011, 04:14 PM
Here's a show I'm not sure I want to see.

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/496/hereslucy00.jpg

Oddly enough, there isn't much in the degrees-of-separation department between this television series and the White Sox. In one episode, it might have been the premiere, Jimmy Piersall, future White Sox announcer but then an Angels outfielder, guest stars in a scene at Marineland. Apparently Dean Chance couldn't get it done on camera, so they needed a pinch-hitter. It worked out for the best, as the scene got a new punchline. As Lucy walks off, Piersall says, "and they call me crazy."

kittle42
05-13-2011, 02:45 PM
Mariners claimed Gray off waivers and will put him in the major-league bullpen immediately.

Maybe it *should* have been Pena, instead!

khan
05-13-2011, 03:35 PM
Losing Gray isn't a big deal, honestly.


That said, this move further erodes this organization's depth uneccesarily. If/when they need a RHP in the 'pen, who's next in line? Humber? Dolsi? Infante? [In other words, adding another small question mark to the team.]


It also keeps a guy [Sale] who has not been a good pitcher this year in the roster.

I believe that Sale could and should be a good pitcher for this team eventually. But, it doesn't appear that his days of being productive and consistent have arrived-yet. At the same time, there remain the questions about Sale's potential for injury. [Too bad Chris Sale can't possibly be demoted, right?]


IMO, losing Gray is mildly disappointing, only for the fact that the Sox reduced their margin for error by reducing their organizational depth. It won't determine whether or not the SOX make a miracle run to the post season, but it seems to be wasteful.

Foulke You
05-13-2011, 04:52 PM
I believe that Sale could and should be a good pitcher for this team eventually. But, it doesn't appear that his days of being productive and consistent have arrived-yet.
Isn't it too early to proclaim Sale "not ready for prime time"? He had an extended stretch of productive bullpen pitching last year and did very well. Sale certainly struggled to start the year but supposedly Cooper identified a small change in his delivery since last year. Shouldn't we at least give Sale until the All Star Break to decide if he needs to be sent down? I just think the sample size is too small.

BringHomeDaBacon
05-13-2011, 05:26 PM
As far as I'm concerned almost any reliever is capable of having a good season which Gray, at least so far, was having.

Bullpen ERA/WHIP:

Santos 0.00/.882
Gray 2.70/1.28
Crain 3.31/.918
Sale 6.57/1.7
Thornton 6.75/2.08
Ohman 6.75/1.59
Pena 8.71/2.03

I'm not saying Gray is a world beater but it seems that giving away one of the three guys doing his damn job sends the wrong message.

Lip Man 1
05-13-2011, 07:52 PM
Bacon:

I understand where you are coming from and if the Sox had the Yankees payroll they could afford to eat Pena's deal, but they aren't...

Lip

StillMissOzzie
05-13-2011, 10:42 PM
Something can be got for AJ and Pierre if salary is eaten. Releasing either would get the team nothing and they would still have to pay them.

I believe the Dodgers are still paying the lion's share of JP's exhorbitant paycheck.

Sad that Gray got caught up in a numbers game (salary and roster). Guy did nothing but get guys out, including a very nice effort last night. I'm sure we'll see him again.

Yeah, the next time the Sox play the Mariners. I gather he was out of options and when he was DFA'd, the Mariners claimed him.

SMO
:gulp:

BringHomeDaBacon
05-13-2011, 10:55 PM
Bacon:

I understand where you are coming from and if the Sox had the Yankees payroll they could afford to eat Pena's deal, but they aren't...

Lip


1. You don't have to be the Yankees to eat $1.6 mil salary.
2. Pena's salary is a sunk cost. It's actually Gray's salary that would have been the additional expenditure.

Therefore, I don't think salary was the reason that Pena was not released. In my opinion, Pena may be safe because they dealt Brandon Allen to acquire him.

Ohman's $2.5 mil next year may have saved him. I think pretty much everyone was scratching their head at that signing. Now they're not only stuck paying him but also losing Gray as a result.

doublem23
05-13-2011, 11:02 PM
I believe the Dodgers are still paying the lion's share of JP's exhorbitant paycheck.


They did last year. This year, the Sox are paying about 58% of Juan's salary; $8.5 M total, Sox pay $5, LA is chipping in $3.5

doublem23
05-13-2011, 11:03 PM
1. You don't have to be the Yankees to eat $1.6 mil salary.
2. Pena's salary is a sunk cost. It's actually Gray's salary that would have been the additional expenditure.

Therefore, I don't think salary was the reason that Pena was not released. In my opinion, Pena may be safe because they dealt Brandon Allen to acquire him.

Ohman's $2.5 mil next year may have saved him. I think pretty much everyone was scratching their head at that signing. Now they're not only stuck paying him but also losing Gray as a result.

Yeah, I don't get that logic, either. We're paying Pena no matter what so we may as well just pay him to not hurt us any more.

The only argument I can see for keeping Pena is that the Sox are so thin organizationally that they can't afford to lose anyone. Sure, Pena sucks, but he's probably still better than the AA filler that makes up most of our minor league system.

Tragg
05-13-2011, 11:23 PM
As far as I'm concerned almost any reliever is capable of having a good season which Gray, at least so far, was having.

Bullpen ERA/WHIP:

Santos 0.00/.882
Gray 2.70/1.28
Crain 3.31/.918
Sale 6.57/1.7
Thornton 6.75/2.08
Ohman 6.75/1.59
Pena 8.71/2.03

I'm not saying Gray is a world beater but it seems that giving away one of the three guys doing his damn job sends the wrong message.

A couple of those guys are better than mediocre, but for the ohmans and penas, it's year to year. Same with Gray. Pena's a sunk cost and pitching poorly.
Anyway, good luck in Seattle, Gray.

tacosalbarojas
05-13-2011, 11:42 PM
I believe the Dodgers are still paying the lion's share of JP's exhorbitant paycheck.



Yeah, the next time the Sox play the Mariners. I gather he was out of options and when he was DFA'd, the Mariners claimed him.

SMO
:gulp:That's exactly what I meant SMO. I knew he'd get picked up. Too many teams need pitching.

sunofgold
05-14-2011, 08:40 AM
Gray is now with Seattle. That is a relief. We already have two ex-Cubs with Pierre and Ohman. Three ex-Cubs on the team at once is too many. This isn't a gray area to me.

khan
05-14-2011, 11:31 AM
Isn't it too early to proclaim Sale "not ready for prime time"? He had an extended stretch of productive bullpen pitching last year and did very well. Sale certainly struggled to start the year but supposedly Cooper identified a small change in his delivery since last year. Shouldn't we at least give Sale until the All Star Break to decide if he needs to be sent down? I just think the sample size is too small.

Sale appears to be yet another example of a SOX youngster doing well initially, only to play poorly in subsequent exposures to MLB competition.

That said, I DO believe in Sale's promise as a prospect. But the guy is simply having a ****ty year so far.

Given the team's craptacular start to the season, the SOX simply can't "wait until the All Star break" for him to work out of it. Why should the WHOLE TEAM be held up while one guy "figures it out," be it Sale, or Beckham, or whoever?


Given his questionable mechanics, his poor production, his inconsistency, and the team's poor start, Sale and the team may be best-served with him in Charlotte.