PDA

View Full Version : Another scary thing....


Tragg
07-08-2002, 12:18 AM
Ray Durham is quietly building himself a nice resume for a nice free agent contract.

OBP of .394 (the best on this team, except for Josh Paul and Todd Ritchie). Will finish with double digit homers; 70+ RBIS; 30+ steals.
Most people, including myself, have been ho-hum about losing him.
But even if Harris meets expectations, it's extremely doubtful that he can match that output.

doublem23
07-08-2002, 12:20 AM
*gasp*

You mean, Ray Durham is GOOD???

Well, that comes as news to me.

:fans
We're too stubborn to admit when we're wrong, too.

bc2k
07-08-2002, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ray Durham is quietly building himself a nice resume for a nice free agent contract.

OBP of .394 (the best on this team, except for Josh Paul and Todd Ritchie). Will finish with double digit homers; 70+ RBIS; 30+ steals.
Most people, including myself, have been ho-hum about losing him.
But even if Harris meets expectations, it's extremely doubtful that he can match that output.

And how many errors does Ray Ray have? How many strikeouts and double plays has this "leadoff" hitter hit into?

Randar68
07-08-2002, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


And how many errors does Ray Ray have? How many strikeouts and double plays has this "leadoff" hitter hit into?

How many balls 6 feet to his right have gone through?

How many times has he swung at ball 4 with guys on base?



Sorry, but for 6+ million on a team with financial restraints, you have to get a better return on investment than what Ray Durham has given the past 3 years.

5'8" guys who are in love with HR's they can barely hit aren't worth a crack-whore's underpants in my book.

Tragg
07-08-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by bc2k



And how many errors does Ray Ray have? How many strikeouts and double plays has this "leadoff" hitter hit into?


Who says he's a leadoff hitter? He's a pretty productive #2 guy - it's nice to get on base 4 times out of 10 so that maggs and konerko can drive you in. Who do you propose on this team that refuses to take a walk can do that?
He has a lot of Ks - which are more than overcome by the bevy of walks he gets.
Yes, too many errors, but also a top 10 Zone Rating.

This team has 3 consistent offensive producers, and he's one of them.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-08-2002, 12:51 AM
That's why this team has to decide if we are going to compete or throw in the towel. If we throw in the towel, trade Ray to a team that could use a two-spot hitter and a second baseman (hello, Dodgers).

Would we get any compensation picks for Ray if he left?

baggio202
07-08-2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
That's why this team has to decide if we are going to compete or throw in the towel. If we throw in the towel, trade Ray to a team that could use a two-spot hitter and a second baseman (hello, Dodgers).

Would we get any compensation picks for Ray if he left?


if we offer ray arbitration and he refused..we would get 2 supplemental picks...i like ray alot and think we should resign him...we are fooling ourselves if we think harris is gonn a step in and replace what ray does for this team....it took us till durham to find a long term replacement for nellie fox...how long will it take to replace ray???

trading ray to the dodgers???..ohhh goody..another chance for danny evans to rape kenny williams :)

with KW i just want JR to make him sit on his hands until the season is over and then quietly slink out of town

Tragg
07-08-2002, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Randar68






Sorry, but for 6+ million on a team with financial restraints, you have to get a better return on investment than what Ray Durham has given the past 3 years.



I understand that we won't keep him. But without him we have Ordonez, Konerko, Lofton who hasn't done anything in 2 months and Lee who seems to see the ball better this year. The rest of the lineup should be in A ball. As for these walks he won't take, why does he lead the team in walks? He has 45, even more impressive considering that the power is right behind him. Sandy Alomar, who has been praised for his O on this board has 2 - repeat - 2!! walks all year.

Finally, if Durham isn't worth 6 million, which he probably isn't, how in the hell is Clayton worth 5 million? Or how in the world did anyone ever think clayton was worth 5 million (speaking of players who can't move 2 feet for a ball).

Garrison
07-08-2002, 03:34 AM
Screw all that stathead BS. Ray has no heart. He won't try in the field (double-digit errors halfway through the season, has zero range) and at the plate he doesn't play for the team and instead swings for the fences. This team can't afford to spend a crap load of money on him this offseason. It could be better spent resigning guys who are worth it and getting new talent. He's a decent player, yes. But worth it? No way.

Nellie_Fox
07-08-2002, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
.....and Lee who seems to see the ball better this year. What games are you watching?

LongDistanceFan
07-08-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


And how many errors does Ray Ray have? How many strikeouts and double plays has this "leadoff" hitter hit into? ray is not a lead off type of a guy and not even a 2, 3, 4, 5, he more like the bottom of the order kind of hitter.......

can we offer arbitration that will be less than what he make? b/c at 6+ mil a yr, not too many teams are going to take a chance on him and he is too expensive for my taste.

SoxxoS
07-08-2002, 09:52 AM
You can't win with players as inconsistant as Ray Durham.

duke of dorwood
07-08-2002, 10:04 AM
How many pre-free agent salary pushes have we seen? Even his push isnt that great. Anyone see the dropped double play toss yesterday?

Pete Ward
07-08-2002, 10:14 AM
Hell he should have had the pop foul down the 1st base line. He cant CONCENTRATE!

Trade his ass.

Trade them all. If only we had a truely craetive GM.

Man-o-man am I getting negative lately.

Tragg
07-08-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
What games are you watching?

Actually, I meant to say this last month. Lee' s been walking fairly frequently and his power is up a bit.

I just wonder - so many on this board don't like Lee, don't like Frank, don't like Durham.

Who else do we have behind Maggs and Konerko? Sandy "i've walked twice all year" Alomar and Jose Valentin?

Procol Harum
07-08-2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


Who else do we have behind Maggs and Konerko? Sandy "i've walked twice all year" Alomar and Jose Valentin?

Valentin--there's another guy who's picture is beside the dictionary entry for "outlived his usefulness." We were all charmed by his career year in 2000 and lost sight of Branch Rickey's truism about it being better to trade a player a year early than a year too late. Sox management half got it when it realized that he didn't have the type of glove a contending team needed at shortstop--unfortunately, that only netted us The Choice ( :o: ) and a gummed up situation at 3rd which because of strike considerations has kept Crede languishing in the minors this season when he should have been up here. If we can get a halfway decent pitching prospect for him, Jose should be jettisoned. But, I doubt if we can get much more than a bag of balls for him at this point. :(:

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 10:52 AM
Jose was great in 2000 because he was hitting in front of early 90's Frank. If it was the 2002 version of Frank, I doubt he would hit much better if at all.

oldcomiskey
07-08-2002, 10:54 AM
Ill tell you why I back Alomar and Manos---because of heart and hustle----Dont think that part of the reason that Burly and Garland are so good is not Alomars veteran presense.....And we all know about Manos--but really whose better than Ray----Roberto Alomar--Jeff Kent--Luis Castillo and Vidro come to mind immediatley----and little else behind them...what this club needs is pitching--I was saying last week that I would give My kingdom for the headhunters we had here in 83---Hoyt was CONTROL--Dotson was just flat out mean---and you had Bannister and Burns and the veteran Jerry Koosman out there--Alas it can never be--Eddie Einhhorn aint here to bail JR out every time----My thinking is if EE wasnt ever here--JR wouldnt have spent money on Fisk or Luzinski or Seaver

soxtalker
07-08-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ray Durham is quietly building himself a nice resume for a nice free agent contract.

OBP of .394 (the best on this team, except for Josh Paul and Todd Ritchie). Will finish with double digit homers; 70+ RBIS; 30+ steals.
Most people, including myself, have been ho-hum about losing him.
But even if Harris meets expectations, it's extremely doubtful that he can match that output.

This is terrific! I had been concerned that Ray would not put up numbers that were good enough to entice some other team to want him (for his salary through free agency). I'm not trying to be overly critical of Ray on this, but, rather, I'd just like the Sox to be in a position to gain.

Personally, I'd prefer to see Ray exchanged for minor league prospects, since I don't think he has that much upside potential, and we can use the $6M for other purposes. Of course, all of the options entail some risk. I don't trust KW to make a good trade, and waiting for arbitration/compensation could all unravel if Ray
gets injured or the strike negotiations change everything.

Tragg
07-08-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker




Personally, I'd prefer to see Ray exchanged for minor league prospects, since I don't think he has that much upside potential, and we can use the $6M for other purposes. Of course, all of the options entail some risk. I don't trust KW to make a good trade, and waiting for arbitration/compensation could all unravel if Ray
gets injured or the strike negotiations change everything.

I agree - i wouldn't pay 6 mill for him.
Prospects sound great - how about a shorstop. But who is to pull off that trade? Kenny Williams?

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
I agree - i wouldn't pay 6 mill for him.
Prospects sound great - how about a shorstop. But who is to pull off that trade? Kenny Williams?

Why would a GM trade for a player that's going to be a free agent after the year when a strike is looming?

Randar68
07-08-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Why would a GM trade for a player that's going to be a free agent after the year when a strike is looming?

They are going for it this year. The Dodgers are about the only team I see him fitting in at. Maybe Atlanta or Oakland, but not as much.

soxtalker
07-08-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


They are going for it this year. The Dodgers are about the only team I see him fitting in at. Maybe Atlanta or Oakland, but not as much.

Another possibility is if there is a sudden injury on a contender. Of course, the timing window for this is rapidly closing.