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Viva Magglio
07-07-2002, 07:24 PM
I've had it. I had the fortune of missing today's debacle by roasting at the Advil Western Open all day today, and it was not until I got to my car until I heard what happened today. As I waited 20 minutes to get out of the parking lot (Great job at directing traffic, Cook County Sheriff's Police!), I heard all about what Frank Thomas said.

For me, I've had it. It's time to wipe the slate clean. What I really want is a house cleaning from ownership on down, but I realize Jerry Reinsdorf will not go away. I think it's time to get rid of Kenny Williams. I think it's time to get rid of Jerry Manuel. I think it's time to get rid of Frank Thomas. I think it's time to get rid of all the other dead weight on this ballclub.

We are spiraling out of control. KW's over his head inexperience coupled with his hotheadedness has set this team five years back or more. JM is a weak leader. It's one thing for him to make questionable pitching moves or fail to motivate the team. However, he seems so afraid of upsetting his players that he will not stand up to them. He is like a submissive parent who will do anything to give a spoiled child anything he or she wants whether it is the right thing to do or not.

We just need a good old fashioned house cleaning. I wish both KW and JM would go now and take Nardi with them. Let Ron Schueler or Roland Hemond serve as interim GM until Donald Fehr and Bud Selig kill this season. Let Jim Leyland or some other person who won't take crap manage the team until the season end.

It's time.

guillen4life13
07-07-2002, 07:29 PM
i'm all for everything u just said. just dont kill this team's core. then we'll end up like what tampa is now.

Huisj
07-07-2002, 08:18 PM
and yet the way this team is going right now with the players they have, they'll end up not much better than TB anyways this year. There is no hope for salvaging this year. Maybe i'm being way to negative, but I agree things are getting out of hand. I'm predicting that this team will not stay ahead of cleveland much longer, and could easily even end up in fourth place. When the players play bad and don't get along, good things simply don't happen. time to clean things up with a good shaving of the deadweight veterans. I don't even care if they trade Valentin (not like he really has much value) even if he was such a great leader or whatever a few years ago. any pitcher with and pitch that sinks in the dirt can get him out easily, and he's nothing more than a .240 hitting platoon player now, not a leader.

In fact now that I think about it, this team has no real leader. Sure, Konerko and Ordonez are the best players on the team, and they both seem to have good team attitudes, but I think they are scared to take a stand and take any leadership, because they've got a big fat sulking egomaniac DH in the way that they are scared to piss off. Unless Frank somehow just has an absolutely unheard of turnaround in attitude and performance, he needs to go. . . but somehow I don't see it happening. he's through.

Tragg
07-07-2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
just dont kill this team's core. then we'll end up like what tampa is now.

I agree.

However, the core is extraordinarily thin - Ordonez, Konerko and Beurhle; Borchard, Crede (maybe) and perhaps a couple of minor league pitchers.

Have we brought anyone up all year, save a pitcher or two and Harris and Pual for a week?

Except for Crede and Borchard, there is no one to bring up and see if they can outproduce Rowand and Liefer (which wouldn't be hard to accomplish).

oldcomiskey
07-07-2002, 08:28 PM
frank aint the only reason why were are 4 below 500--to solely blame him is ridiculous

Huisj
07-07-2002, 10:15 PM
i'm not trying to solely blame frank for the sox stinking right now. lots of guys are playing like crap, like ritchie, foulke, valentin most of the time, durham most of the time, lofton, and lee. with those guys going out there day after day, nothing's going to happen. but I also think (i hate using that sort of phrase, it makes it look like my opinion is important or meaningful or something, but oh well, it's just a message board) that thomas' attitude and struggles are bad for this team. frank has always been the centerpiece of the offence, and he sounds like he still wants to be (otherwise he wouldn't be whining it seems) but you cannot have a centerpiece that hits .239 and is a grump. that just won't work.

but this team has many problems besides just him too. i just fear that he's causing the whole team to be at odds with each other.

soxtalker
07-07-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
We are spiraling out of control. KW's over his head inexperience coupled with his hotheadedness has set this team five years back or more...

We just need a good old fashioned house cleaning. I wish both KW and JM would go now and take Nardi with them. Let Ron Schueler or Roland Hemond serve as interim GM until Donald Fehr and Bud Selig kill this season. Let Jim Leyland or some other person who won't take crap manage the team until the season end.

Originally posted by Tragg
However, the core is extraordinarily thin - Ordonez, Konerko and Beurhle; Borchard, Crede (maybe) and perhaps a couple of minor league pitchers.

Yes, I fear that even if JR were to fire KW now (something I think highly unlikely), KW has really set the organization back quite a few years. His inexperience has been a problem, but the bravado and hotheadedness -- not knowing what he didn't know -- are what seem to have really hurt.

But now, how do we salvage the most for the future? Trades will be difficult. I suspect that JR may be figuring that he'll just ride out a work stoppage.

Jerry_Manuel
07-08-2002, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Usual.

And we both know that none of that will happen.

Comedy's always at someone's expense, and that time you picked up the tab. Thanks for playing along.

Cheryl
07-08-2002, 07:30 AM
None of this actually matters. They come back from the break, play another 2 1/2 weeks of corpseball, then go out on strike. The season is over, next year's is probably wiped out too. It's Twinkie fans' turn to whine and moan about this being 'their year' that was wiped out by a strike.

Pete Ward
07-08-2002, 07:45 AM
Right with you!

Ive been a Sox fan since 1963. But its about done for me.

If they strike......

FIX IT FOR GOOD!

I mean fix it all .......and be done with it:

Free agency
Drugs
Arbitration
Drafting world wide
Salary Cap
Revenue sharing
DH or NOT!
Contraction
Juiced balls
Elbow Pads/ Body Armor
What did I leave out

Take a few years if you want.......... but fix it!

Bunch of overpaid underachieving athletes!

Bring on the NFL!

jklm
07-08-2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by Pete Ward
Right with you!

Ive been a Sox fan since 1963. But its about done for me.

If they strike......

FIX IT FOR GOOD!

I mean fix it all .......and be done with it:

Free agency
Drugs
Arbitration
Drafting world wide
Salary Cap
Revenue sharing
DH or NOT!
Contraction
Juiced balls
Elbow Pads/ Body Armor
What did I leave out

Take a few years if you want.......... but fix it!

Bunch of overpaid underachieving athletes!

Bring on the NFL!

Pretty good list. Let me add one more: NBA style slot money for draftees.