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View Full Version : Will Anyone Be Held Accountable for This Team?


WhiteSox5187
05-04-2011, 04:32 PM
The question is not should, but will anyone (Walker, Ozzie, Kenny) be held accountable for this mess.

russ99
05-04-2011, 04:36 PM
The question is not should, but will anyone (Walker, Ozzie, Kenny) be held accountable for this mess.

My vote was not to limit it to the staff, but also that players be sent down.

Well, JR? We're waiting...

Daver
05-04-2011, 04:39 PM
I've decided to blame you.

Lip Man 1
05-04-2011, 04:40 PM
Define when held accountable please...this week, All Star break, next off season.

If this disaster continues someone will leave it may not be via firing, it may be an off season resignation.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2011, 04:40 PM
I've decided to blame you.

That's fair. I do that frequently too.

kittle42
05-04-2011, 04:49 PM
I fully expect that no changes will be made during the season.

TheOldRoman
05-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Should someone? Absolutely.
Will someone? Not a chance.

TDog
05-04-2011, 05:10 PM
A few key players who are to blame can't be traded.

Scottiehaswheels
05-04-2011, 05:27 PM
I don't think anything will happen and Ranger will get to watch this crapfest all year long and take the resultant phone calls. Hooray!

Scottiehaswheels
05-04-2011, 05:33 PM
I expect the fanbase to be blamed for not showing up to support this suckfest soon. So I guess the paying customers will be held accountable first.

JB98
05-04-2011, 05:37 PM
I expect the fanbase to be blamed for not showing up to support this suckfest soon. So I guess the paying customers will be held accountable first.

Make no mistake, they'll cry poor and bitch about attendance when veterans are dealt for pennies on the dollar in July.

October26
05-04-2011, 05:41 PM
I don't think anything will happen and Ranger will get to watch this crapfest all year long and take the resultant phone calls. Hooray!

Yeah, I feel sorry for Ranger. He did close today's postgame show by acknowledgeing that Sox fans have every right to be angry. It doesn't change anything but it felt good to hear him say that.

I also do not think any changes will be made.

roylestillman
05-04-2011, 05:48 PM
I expect the fanbase to be blamed for not showing up to support this suckfest soon. So I guess the paying customers will be held accountable first.

There has been a not so subtle shift this year, maybe due to the sky high hype this year. Went to the game today (got $9 lower box seats on stub hub) and the guy behind me was very calmly telling his friends that he's pretty much decided not to renew next year. No rants, just facts that they were getting too expensive and a lot were being left unused, Taking Metra home similar discussions were taking place. Again no loud anger, just resignation that "I'm just done with them."

The place will be a ghost town by the next home stand.

soltrain21
05-04-2011, 05:53 PM
There has been a not so subtle shift this year, maybe due to the sky high hype this year. Went to the game today (got $9 lower box seats on stub hub) and the guy behind me was very calmly telling his friends that he's pretty much decided not to renew next year. No rants, just facts that they were getting too expensive and a lot were being left unused, Taking Metra home similar discussions were taking place. Again no loud anger, just resignation that "I'm just done with them."

The place will be a ghost town by the next home stand.

Yep. I heard two guys talking on the train on the way to work and it was the same thing. Both of them said they weren't going anymore this year.

Sucks, really. What a terrible scenario forming on the south side.

SportsPg
05-04-2011, 05:58 PM
It's unfortunate - timing is brutal for this. Our highest payroll ever and we play like absolute dogs.

This year is gone, no way to come back from a hole this deep. JR will order Kenny to dump every veteran we can by June. TCQ is gone, maybe Pierre, AJ, Floyd, Jackson and Buerhle. No way to dump Rios, Dunn, Peavy or ARam, too many years left on their contracts.

The Peavy trade was really a debacle, almost as bad as the Swisher deals. Gio Gonzalez would look real good in our rotation about now...:angry:

Madvora
05-04-2011, 06:11 PM
The end of last year was late enough and overdue. We're just into the head scratching time now. I don't think anything is ever going to happen unless KW or Ozzie quit themselves.

TDog
05-04-2011, 06:11 PM
Yep. I heard two guys talking on the train on the way to work and it was the same thing. Both of them said they weren't going anymore this year.

Sucks, really. What a terrible scenario forming on the south side.

It really is a shame. Management goes out and spends money on players that fans want, the players don't perform and management takes it in the shorts. Management is bound to find some way to cut payroll and fans will complain that they won't go back until the team starts spending money to put a winner on the field.

I can't blame the fans. And any mention of the Sox not having the money to do what fans want will be greeting with angry cries from fans that they are being attacked because they aren't idiotic enough to support a loser, so I won't. But I do appreciate fan bases that show up to support their team win or lose, even if many Sox fans label them idiotic for supporting losers.

It isn't like management purposely fielded a losing team. It feels like a perfect storm. Really, as you said, and no matter how one looks at it, it is a terrible scenario forming on the south side.

A. Cavatica
05-04-2011, 08:42 PM
It really is a shame. Management goes out and spends money on players that fans want, the players don't perform and management takes it in the shorts. Management is bound to find some way to cut payroll and fans will complain that they won't go back until the team starts spending money to put a winner on the field.

I can't blame the fans. And any mention of the Sox not having the money to do what fans want will be greeting with angry cries from fans that they are being attacked because they aren't idiotic enough to support a loser, so I won't. But I do appreciate fan bases that show up to support their team win or lose, even if many Sox fans label them idiotic for supporting losers.

It isn't like management purposely fielded a losing team. It feels like a perfect storm. Really, as you said, and no matter how one looks at it, it is a terrible scenario forming on the south side.

Oh, come on. The Sox have been under-performing for five years. We support the team, but we don't support sustained incompetence.

NLaloosh
05-04-2011, 09:36 PM
Yes. Jeff Gray.

asindc
05-04-2011, 09:38 PM
Since the people most responsible for this mess have guaranteed contracts, no.

Lip Man 1
05-04-2011, 10:26 PM
Well said Cavatica. Well said.

Lip

BainesHOF
05-05-2011, 12:26 AM
I won't be going to any games until more than one person is held accountable for this daily debacle. It's insulting that the organization isn't fixing obvious problems.

Hitmen77
05-05-2011, 07:47 AM
Should someone? Absolutely.
Will someone? Not a chance.

I'm pretty much counting on this.

Last year was supposed to be a referendum on Ozzie's "no DH" theory. Well, that flopped and after all the fiasco with his family and with his feuding with Kenny, they responding by giving him an extension (after he publicly demanded one).

Nobody of importance is going anywhere. The coaches and management have no accountability.

If anything, their "huge" shake up will be demoting some nobody like Jeff Gray. Just a token move that won't impact anything.

I expect the fanbase to be blamed for not showing up to support this suckfest soon. So I guess the paying customers will be held accountable first.

Yep, we've heard this before from Sox management. You're right, the fans will take the blame for this crapfest before Ozzie and Kenny do. :angry:

Yep. I heard two guys talking on the train on the way to work and it was the same thing. Both of them said they weren't going anymore this year.

Sucks, really. What a terrible scenario forming on the south side.

This is really unfortunate. With the people in Chicago finally getting to the point where they're truly fed up with the Cubs and unhappy with the things Ricketts is doing up there, I saw 2011 as a golden opportunity for the White Sox to make some more big gains in winning over fans (i'm thinking young fans) in the Chicago market.

With enough talent assembled to take the Sox to the playoffs and perhaps for a decent run, that would have been a huge boost to this fanbase. Unfortunately, that chance is being totally pissed away.

TDog
05-05-2011, 12:52 PM
Oh, come on. The Sox have been under-performing for five years. We support the team, but we don't support sustained incompetence.

As someone who was on a season ticket plan throughout high school, in years the Sox only finished above .500 once, and now travels to see the White Sox when they play within 300 miles of me, I have to say that it would prefer to have a fellow fan base that didn't seem to be looking for reasons not to support the team.

Everyone is upset about the way the team is playing. But there seems a smugness among people who celebrate their non-support for the team.

Not supporting sustained incompetence, which is the way most major league teams play, won't make your team any better.

soltrain21
05-05-2011, 01:01 PM
As someone who was on a season ticket plan throughout high school, in years the Sox only finished above .500 once, and now travels to see the White Sox when they play within 300 miles of me, I have to say that it would prefer to have a fellow fan base that didn't seem to be looking for reasons not to support the team.

Everyone is upset about the way the team is playing. But there seems a smugness among people who celebrate their non-support for the team.

Not supporting sustained incompetence, which is the way most major league teams play, won't make your team any better.

And spending money on garbage baseball won't help me pay for a wedding or our new house.

Don't get high and mighty on how people should spend their cash. Going to a baseball game is expensive.

khan
05-05-2011, 01:18 PM
[I've been waiting for this post, or a post like it to show up. And I mean no offense to TDog or anyone who is of the same opinion as (s)he.]

As someone who was on a season ticket plan throughout high school, in years the Sox only finished above .500 once, and now travels to see the White Sox when they play within 300 miles of me, I have to say that it would prefer to have a fellow fan base that didn't seem to be looking for reasons not to support the team.
For the record:

1. What timeframe were you in high school? [Was it a cheaper time than now? Could one drop out of high school, and still end up in a middle class job?]

2. Would you classify your professional and financial status as "stable" or better?


I only ask these things to clarify your statement.


Everyone is upset about the way the team is playing. But there seems a smugness among people who celebrate their non-support for the team.

Not supporting sustained incompetence, which is the way most major league teams play, won't make your team any better.
I've always believed that a business has to EARN their customers' business. That they have to work to maintain their clientele's loyalty. That they have to treat people right, and to strive to do the right thing FIRST, before the loyalty will be paid back to them.

Recall that we are incessantly reminded of how MLB is "a business." Given that we live in a day and age of higher financial insecurity than any since that of the Great Depression, I don't see how we as fans should be "shamed" into buying a sub-standard product.

MLB is an entertainment product, by my view. Given the multitude of entertainment options, I never, ever fault someone for choosing to avoid spending money on MLB. [Especially guys like soltrain, who is apparently trying to get started in life.]

Rather, I think it pertinent for a fan to support [or not to support] a team as they see fit. For my part, a ****ty team EARNS ****ty support and ****ty loyalty. By the same token, a good team earns good support and good loyalty from their fans.

Being told to "not watch the games," watching the same crappy start to a season year after year, or watching a poorly-wrought "strategy" to construct an organization are all valid reasons to not spend money on the product.

In the same way, your happy feelings associated with being a fan of your favorite team and/or player is an equally-valid reason to spend money on the team.

GoSox2K3
05-05-2011, 01:49 PM
As someone who was on a season ticket plan throughout high school, in years the Sox only finished above .500 once, and now travels to see the White Sox when they play within 300 miles of me, I have to say that it would prefer to have a fellow fan base that didn't seem to be looking for reasons not to support the team.

Everyone is upset about the way the team is playing. But there seems a smugness among people who celebrate their non-support for the team.

Not supporting sustained incompetence, which is the way most major league teams play, won't make your team any better.

There's seems to be a smugness among other people's posts? Oh man, what irony in that statement. That's beautiful.

doublem23
05-05-2011, 01:53 PM
The Peavy trade was really a debacle, almost as bad as the Swisher deals. Gio Gonzalez would look real good in our rotation about now...:angry:

Have you seen the way he pitches away from Oakland?

Hint: Not very good

soxfanatlanta
05-05-2011, 01:54 PM
JR will pay for this mess when there is a mass exodus of fans.

kittle42
05-05-2011, 01:59 PM
JR will pay for this mess when there is a mass exodus of fans.

Yes, he will. And this mess, aside from his refusal to terminate coaches and staff, is not really his fault.

Jim Shorts
05-05-2011, 02:03 PM
Yes, he will. And this mess, aside from his refusal to terminate coaches and staff, is not really his fault.


I'd suggest we're the one's paying right now. We'll also be paying in a different sort of way once they start selling the pieces of the collection.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
I find it interesting that fans are supposed to "support incompetence" and apparently (to some) should be criticized for not doing so.

I wonder if those who feel that way would continue to go back to a restaurant that keeps serving you bad food, or a bar that keeps watering down drinks, or a hardware store that keeps selling you the wrong tools to try to fix a problem you've been telling them about.

:?:

-------------------------------
On to a different subject. I wonder if MLB teams have a "best case" / "worst case" contingency plan on hand that they can go to depending on how the season is unfolding. It's impossible to plan for everything but I'd hope that the Sox for example have some broadbased general outlines they can go to to try to help them through the rest of the season.

Not by any means saying, 'you trade so and so first,' then 'trade this person,' but more along the lines of, 'here's what we do from a media standpoint,' 'here's what we do to try to bring in more fans to see a losing team...' things along those lines.

I hope the Sox right now haven't been caught flat footed with no idea of what they can do...and again I mean from a broader concept.

Lip

BringHomeDaBacon
05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Have you seen the way he pitches away from Oakland?

Hint: Not very good

Stop the press! Young player performs better at home!

3.92 ERA on the road last year isn't nearly as bad as your posts routinely imply. Even that number is better than Buehrle, Floyd, Peavy or Garcia last year.

His overall season ERA of 3.23 has beaten by Buehrle, Floyd and Danks ONCE in all the years they have pitched combined. I'll grant you that he's pitching a much more favorable environment in Oakland but his numbers are plenty solid even taking that into account.

doublem23
05-05-2011, 02:23 PM
Stop the press! Young player performs better at home!

3.92 ERA on the road last year isn't nearly as bad as your posts routinely imply. Even that number is better than Buehrle, Floyd, Peavy or Garcia last year.

His overall season ERA of 3.23 has beaten by Buehrle, Floyd and Danks ONCE in all the years they have pitched combined. I'll grant you that he's pitching a much more favorable environment in Oakland but his numbers are plenty solid even taking that into account.

Road WHIP - 1.429
Road BABIP - .318 (take away all that foul ground)

Gio's a nice pitcher. Would love to have him back. But he's the only guy we've traded away in quite some time that's bitten us. Not a big deal.

Harry Chappas
05-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Make no mistake, they'll cry poor and bitch about attendance when veterans are dealt for pennies on the dollar in July.

It's hard to argue with economics. It may not be a popular decision, but I won't blame ownership one bit for selling off pieces of this team.

I also don't blame KW. Most of us were pretty optimistic with the resigning of Konerko and the signing of Dunn. Sure, there were some worried a bit about the bullpen, but had Ozzie utilized it properly, it may not even be an issue and it's been okay as of late. Ditto with the starting pitching. And we can point to "busts" like Peavy but injuries are unpredictable. Sure, there have been some bad signings - Swisher comes to mind - but every GM in the league has a few of those on their resume.

Jerry gave KW the money. KW spent it and assembled - on paper - a team that should compete.

The accountability should rest with the coaching staff and the players. It's tough to "fire" the players so I'd say that leaves the coaches. Ozzie should go, along with our so-called hitting coach (a misnomer if ever there was one).

JB98
05-05-2011, 05:54 PM
It's hard to argue with economics. It may not be a popular decision, but I won't blame ownership one bit for selling off pieces of this team.

I also don't blame KW. Most of us were pretty optimistic with the resigning of Konerko and the signing of Dunn. Sure, there were some worried a bit about the bullpen, but had Ozzie utilized it properly, it may not even be an issue and it's been okay as of late. Ditto with the starting pitching. And we can point to "busts" like Peavy but injuries are unpredictable. Sure, there have been some bad signings - Swisher comes to mind - but every GM in the league has a few of those on their resume.

Jerry gave KW the money. KW spent it and assembled - on paper - a team that should compete.

The accountability should rest with the coaching staff and the players. It's tough to "fire" the players so I'd say that leaves the coaches. Ozzie should go, along with our so-called hitting coach (a misnomer if ever there was one).

I hear ya, but instead of just doing what they gotta do, the organization will point fingers at the fans. They aren't the most skilled at public relations.

I don't disagree with any of your points.

SI1020
05-05-2011, 05:57 PM
I hear ya, but instead of just doing what they gotta do, the organization will point fingers at the fans. They aren't the most skilled at public relations.

I don't disagree with any of your points. They never have been particularly good at that since 1981.