PDA

View Full Version : Six-Man Rotation


#1swisher
05-03-2011, 11:05 AM
Per Merkin (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110502&content_id=18544522&notebook_id=18544532&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws)

Peavy may return May 10th, against LAA.

vinny
05-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Doesn't sound like they've completely thought it out (if they actually do go with six, which seems up in the air still from the tone of the article).

So how do you make room now? I wouldn't want to move a fielder. Maybe put Pena on the DL and see what happens in the meantime?

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-03-2011, 12:28 PM
I'd assume Gray gets sent down. Would the Sox carry 13 pitchers if they went to a 6-Man rotation?

BringHomeDaBacon
05-03-2011, 12:34 PM
If they feel like they have six starters in which they are reasonably confident and since they are "all in", then they should try and trade one of them (Floyd?) for a third basemen and/or left fielder.

ShooterMcGavin
05-03-2011, 12:35 PM
It's a good problem to have. The Sox could go with a 6-man rotation, saving innings on Buehrle and Peavy, so they're fresh for the postseason. Or, the Sox could bolster the bullpen by moving Humber there when Peavy comes back.

SephClone89
05-03-2011, 01:04 PM
If they feel like they have six starters in which they are reasonably confident and since they are "all in", then they should try and trade one of them (Floyd?) for a third basemen and/or left fielder.

Great idea. We're losing two starters after this season, plus a major injury concern, and a 28-year old flop who's made less than a dozen starts in his major league career...may as well trade one of the few relatively proven and healthy starters we have under control!

BleacherBandit
05-03-2011, 01:19 PM
How many months has Peavy actually pitched (in the active rotation and in the aggregate) ? Just a curiosity.

gregoriop
05-03-2011, 02:32 PM
Great idea. We're losing two starters after this season, plus a major injury concern, and a 28-year old flop who's made less than a dozen starts in his major league career...may as well trade one of the few relatively proven and healthy starters we have under control!


He did point out the "All In" nature of this season.

KMcMahon817
05-03-2011, 03:31 PM
I'd prefer his return to not be @ LAA. That is where he threw his last major league pitch. :o:

Daver
05-03-2011, 03:33 PM
I'd prefer his return to not be @ LAA. That is where he threw his last major league pitch. :o:

And the point behind this is what?

KMcMahon817
05-03-2011, 03:36 PM
And the point behind this is what?

And the point behind your post was what?

It was kinda of a joke, but I am a tad superstitious.

DumpJerry
05-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Sounds like they don't expect Peavy to finish the season.

If Peavy were 100%, I would DFA Pena and make Humber the long guy/spot starter. I doubt Peavy is, or ever will be in 2011, 100%.

SephClone89
05-03-2011, 03:49 PM
I'd prefer his return to not be @ LAA. That is where he threw his last major league pitch. :o:

He threw his last major league pitch at the Cell, bro.

KMcMahon817
05-03-2011, 03:52 PM
He threw his last major league pitch at the Cell, bro.
My bad. Well then it was vs. the Angels, bro.

SephClone89
05-03-2011, 03:58 PM
My bad. Well then it was vs. the Angels, bro.

Yep. Was around fourth of July--I was at the Monday night game and that crowd was buzzing with how ridiculously hot that team was then.

sox1970
05-05-2011, 07:46 PM
Peavy went 7 innings and 100 pitches tonight, if anyone cares.

daveeym
05-05-2011, 08:32 PM
Sounds like they don't expect Peavy to finish the season.

If Peavy were 100%, I would DFA Pena and make Humber the long guy/spot starter. I doubt Peavy is, or ever will be in 2011, 100%.
That's one possibility. I think it's more for showcasing guys. They hopefully will throw better with an extra day of rest. Can easily skip a guy, Peavy or anyone else, that's a bit gassed. Humber gets a fair shot which he's probably earned. Everyone's value can get boosted and White Flag II Electric Boogaloo can happen unless by some chance they get back to striking distance.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-05-2011, 11:36 PM
Peavy went 7 innings and 100 pitches tonight, if anyone cares.

Good for him. Nice to see 5 K / 1 BB, and that he threw 71% for strikes. Hopefully nothing too serious tomorrow when he wakes up it be nice to see him comeback.

sunofgold
05-06-2011, 09:44 AM
We have decent starters. Put Humber in the bullpen to replace Gray. Nice insurance starter with Humber. Don't trade any starters.

I am excited about having Peavy back. Not expecting him to be our ace. But maybe provide some inspiration to this team. Just want Peavy to be decent. Quality starts would be awesome.

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-06-2011, 10:39 AM
If he's healthy and can stay healthy, awesome.

If he's healthy and pitches like Thornton, then why bother?

DirtySox
05-07-2011, 12:38 AM
If the Sox keep playing this way I fully expect one of Jackson, Danks, or Floyd moved. Then back to the 5 man rotation we go.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-07-2011, 02:15 AM
Guillen said after tonight's game Humber needs to stay in the rotation. No ****. By far the most consistent pitcher and as far as I'm concerned, he earned a spot and deserves to stay there until he can't do it anymore. He doesn't blow guys away, but he's done way more than expected in multiple starts. Should be interesting what happens, but knowing the way things are done, Humber will probably end up moving back to the pen.

BainesHOF
05-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Humber needs to stay in the rotation for a bunch of reasons. And if he continues to pitch well enough to remain in the rotation, then you have to trade Jackson, Danks, Floyd or Buehrle.

SI1020
05-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Humber needs to stay in the rotation for a bunch of reasons. And if he continues to pitch well enough to remain in the rotation, then you have to trade Jackson, Danks, Floyd or Buehrle. I agree.

kufram
05-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Humber needs to stay in the rotation for a bunch of reasons. And if he continues to pitch well enough to remain in the rotation, then you have to trade Jackson, Danks, Floyd or Buehrle.


Enough people want to move players because they're NOT doing their jobs, which is fair. I say Humber is one player that deserves the chance to pitch himself OUT of his place in the rotation. Accountability works both ways. Humber has made a good account of himself so far. It may not last but I, personally, like the guy and hope he keeps it up.

KMcMahon817
05-07-2011, 01:37 PM
Humber deserves to keep his spot. Why not just go Danks, Jackson, Buehrle, Floyd, Peavy (with Humber in BP) and next time through the rotation go Danks, Jackson, Buehrle Floyd, Humber (with Peavy getting extra rest).

But, if the SOX haven't figured their **** out in a month and/or the Twins or Tigers starting winning consistently, I would expect either Jackson or Buehrle to get dealt.

#1swisher
05-09-2011, 08:28 PM
scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin)

Peavy going Wednesday. Humber Friday. Floyd Saturday, if his foot is ok.
Nothing set after that, although six-man looks in play

Brian26
05-09-2011, 09:00 PM
If the Sox keep playing this way I fully expect one of Jackson, Danks, or Floyd moved. Then back to the 5 man rotation we go.

The six-man rotation doesn't make sense for a number of reasons, but most importantly for a team like the Sox it handicaps them by using up an extra roster space with basically no benefit. This is all assuming starting pitchers aren't going to be available out of the bullpen on their throw day. Otherwise, you're using six starting pitchers and will probably still need the same number of relievers in the bullpen (seven). A 13 man pitching staff is tough to justify, especially with the talent the Sox have.

NDSox12
05-09-2011, 09:50 PM
I'm okay with a six man rotation as long as it is short term. Now is actually a pretty good time to be doing it because there are so few off days this month. But if this lasts more than a couple weeks, I think it is dumb and a waste of a roster spot.

forrestg
05-10-2011, 12:02 PM
If Peavey is activated 0n wednesday,who gets moved off the roster ?

delben91
05-10-2011, 12:07 PM
If Peavey is activated 0n wednesday,who gets moved off the roster ?

I'll be shocked if it isn't Jeff Gray.

soxinem1
05-10-2011, 12:32 PM
Great idea. We're losing two starters after this season, plus a major injury concern, and a 28-year old flop who's made less than a dozen starts in his major league career...may as well trade one of the few relatively proven and healthy starters we have under control!

Not only that, but I'm sure the team wants to see how Humber does facing some of these teams a second time in the next few weeks. If he is indeed part of the future, they have to see how effective he is when team get a book on him.

Additionally, not only does Humber deserve the chance, we are dealing with a total unknown with Peavy. He may very well need to skip a turn here and there. To expect him taking every turn from now to season's end is too much to ask coming off of unprecedented surgery.

Lorenzo Barcelo
05-10-2011, 12:41 PM
Humber's current babip is at .203. So regression to the mean is expected. But hey, lets ride him while he's hot/lucky.

khan
05-10-2011, 12:54 PM
I'll be shocked if it isn't Jeff Gray.

Agreed. But, I'd prefer that Sale be sent down, as he's been inconsistent/ineffective so far this year, last night aside.

doublem23
05-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Agreed. But, I'd prefer that Sale be sent down, as he's been inconsistent/ineffective so far this year, last night aside.

I like Sale being able to work with Cooper, though

Jim Shorts
05-10-2011, 01:19 PM
This just sounds to me like they don't trust Peavy's health over any extended period of time. I happen to think they are right.

khan
05-10-2011, 01:26 PM
I like Sale being able to work with Cooper, though

I can certainly understand your sentiment here.

But, given the potential issues with Sale's motion/scapular loading, I wonder if [over the longer term] he wouldn't be better served working that out with Kirk Champion or someone else in the organization.

For example, didn't Coop "fix" Floyd by merely allowing Floyd to throw as he did before the phillies drafted him? This [single] example might suggest that Coop may not be the best choice to "rebuild" Sale's motion to avoid injuries.


Granted, the coaching staff/FO may not believe that Sale's inverted W will lead to injuries, but isn't that why Sale dropped to the SOX in the draft?

In either case, if Sale doesn't find some consistency and some effectiveness, I'd prefer him in Charlotte.

delben91
05-10-2011, 01:38 PM
I can certainly understand your sentiment here.

But, given the potential issues with Sale's motion/scapular loading, I wonder if [over the longer term] he wouldn't be better served working that out with Kirk Champion or someone else in the organization.

For example, didn't Coop "fix" Floyd by merely allowing Floyd to throw as he did before the phillies drafted him? This [single] example might suggest that Coop may not be the best choice to "rebuild" Sale's motion to avoid injuries.


Granted, the coaching staff/FO may not believe that Sale's inverted W will lead to injuries, but isn't that why Sale dropped to the SOX in the draft?

In either case, if Sale doesn't find some consistency and some effectiveness, I'd prefer him in Charlotte.

True, but Coop is also credited for improving both Thornton's and Jackson's performance with mechanical adjustments. Doesn't mean they're the same thing as adjustments to prevent injury, but just an observation that Coop isn't without a track record in that regard.

#1swisher
05-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Peavy is returning and Humber is staying. Floyd still experiencing right foot pain since getting hit by Suzukis' grounder on Saturday.
Coop comments.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110509&content_id=18858570&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

khan
05-10-2011, 01:52 PM
True, but Coop is also credited for improving both Thornton's and Jackson's performance with mechanical adjustments. Doesn't mean they're the same thing as adjustments to prevent injury, but just an observation that Coop isn't without a track record in that regard.

Yeah, I think this is entirely fair. I suppose my concerns, in order, would be:

1. Sale's ****ty >6.5 ERA negatively impacting the team.
2. Sale's good-bad, good-bad, good-bad inconsistency making him unreliable to the team.
3. His motion possibly leading him to become injured.

Thus, his motion leading to him getting injured is a much-lesser consideration [IMO] to him not being as effective and consistent as others in the 'pen.

russ99
05-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Yeah, I think this is entirely fair. I suppose my concerns, in order, would be:

1. Sale's ****ty >6.5 ERA negatively impacting the team.
2. Sale's good-bad, good-bad, good-bad inconsistency making him unreliable to the team.
3. His motion possibly leading him to become injured.

Thus, his motion leading to him getting injured is a much-lesser consideration [IMO] to him not being as effective and consistent as others in the 'pen.

Before the season, I did dismiss this notion, but I now agree. Sale with more responsibility in 2011 isn't the quick starter he was 2010, and he sure looks like he needs some minor league time. Fixing his mechanics before a surgery requires them to be fixed more permanantly would be another benefit.

Also, Bruney and Infante are doing a really good job closing in AAA and AA respectively, and are pretty close to be deserving of a shot in the pen. Infante is 1-0 with 7 saves and a 0.00 ERA/0.90 WHIP in 13.1 innings at Birmingham.

It's not like we have nobody in the minors that may step up and take a lesser relief role.

Lip Man 1
05-12-2011, 08:29 PM
Interesting story by Mark Gonzales on the Tribune web site Thursday regarding the Sox decision to go to a six man rotation.

Gonzo reminded everyone that before the start of the 2006 season Kenny Williams suggested the Sox go with a six man rotation given that their pitchers worked in the World Series and had a shorter time period to recover. Ozzie nixed the idea.

The rotation would have been, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Vazquez and Brandon McCarthy.

I wonder what changed Ozzie's mind about doing it this season?

Lip

sunofgold
05-13-2011, 11:21 AM
Extra rest can be good for some pitchers. Some starters like to pitch every fifth day. We went on a four man rotation at the end of 2008 and that worked to get us into the playoffs.

A six man rotation is rare. Has any other team done this recently? I cannot think of one.

Hitmen77
05-23-2011, 08:53 PM
Six man rotation probably will end by June 1:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-change-in-soxs-sixman-rotation-appears-imminent-20110523,0,1145495.story?track=rss

At this point, who does Ozzie bump from the rotation?

Noneck
05-23-2011, 09:15 PM
It is quite amazing that a tough decision like this has to be made with a team that is 5 under, 4th place and 9 out of 1st.

Hitmen77
05-24-2011, 08:05 AM
It sounds like Danks is staying in the rotation.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-guillen-danks-likely-to-stay-in-soxs-rotation-20110523,0,5838938.story?track=rss

Barring a setback to his injury, Peavy isn't going anywhere. The way Buehrle has been pitching of late, he's staying too.

Noneck
05-24-2011, 08:19 AM
Jacksons trade worth would decrease if he was put in the pen. So I think it will come down to Humber or Floyd.

Tragg
05-24-2011, 10:21 AM
They're going to send Humber to the bullpen. This team makes a lot of decision based on sunk cost (exactly how not to make a decision), and his is least.
What we should do is trade one of them.....like Jackson or even MB if we're not going to resign him...Phil Rogers may be off the wall, but he does have great stats against the NL....

balke
05-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Interesting story by Mark Gonzales on the Tribune web site Thursday regarding the Sox decision to go to a six man rotation.

Gonzo reminded everyone that before the start of the 2006 season Kenny Williams suggested the Sox go with a six man rotation given that their pitchers worked in the World Series and had a shorter time period to recover. Ozzie nixed the idea.

The rotation would have been, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Vazquez and Brandon McCarthy.

I wonder what changed Ozzie's mind about doing it this season?

Lip

I don't think Kenny ever really wanted the 6-man. He wanted to get the story out that he had too many pitchers to see what he could get for Mccarthy who was way overrated due to his spring training miracle.

I like the 6-man now to stay. Peavy has his issues and Mark is on 10 years pitching in the majors. Gives bullpen possibilities too - I think Floyd and Buehrle need work every 3 days?


If a guy comes in and has a dead arm - the next in line just steps up to fill in. That way the weight isn't on pena and ohman to stop the bleeding all the time.

DirtySox
05-24-2011, 10:58 AM
They're going to send Humber to the bullpen. This team makes a lot of decision based on sunk cost (exactly how not to make a decision), and his is least.
What we should do is trade one of them.....like Jackson or even MB if we're not going to resign him...Phil Rogers may be off the wall, but he does have great stats against the NL....

I think Humber will be sent to the pen as well. Sending Danks or Jackson to the bullpen isn't going to help trade value or Elias ranking. If/when someone is sent packing he can return to the rotation at some point. A trade would indeed alleviate the rotation issue, but I don't think Kenny is at that point just yet.

DonnieDarko
05-24-2011, 11:03 AM
I see no problem with trading Jackson, honestly. But if we can is another matter entirely. I'm sure that there are more pitching-strapped teams than just the Yankees that would love to have him in their rotation. I just hope that we get something back of actual, tangible value. A good catching or 3B prospect wouldn't be bad, I suppose...

sox1970
05-24-2011, 11:18 AM
I can't see them taking Humber out of the rotation. He's been too consistent. Maybe they can skip Buehrle after his next start, and put him in the pen until he starts again on June 8.

SoxSpeed22
05-24-2011, 11:40 AM
The six man rotation made a lot more sense in 2006 thanks to Garcia and Vazquez playing in the World Baseball Classic. It might work around August, when the guys go through a dead arm period, but I don't see it working.

Lip Man 1
05-24-2011, 11:41 AM
The Sox might want to consider what they and a lot of MLB teams did in the 1950's and 1960's when wondering what to do with an "excess" of starting pitchers.

The top four (in those days) were in the rotation based on performance, the 'odd man out' was in the bullpen as the 'swing' guy, someone who could make a start or pitch long relief.

Today it would be the top five in the rotation, the 6th guy in the pen. If you base it completely on performance, that guy is Danks.

Lip

sox1970
05-24-2011, 11:53 AM
The Sox might want to consider what they and a lot of MLB teams did in the 1950's and 1960's when wondering what to do with an "excess" of starting pitchers.

The top four (in those days) were in the rotation based on performance, the 'odd man out' was in the bullpen as the 'swing' guy, someone who could make a start or pitch long relief.

Today it would be the top five in the rotation, the 6th guy in the pen. If you base it completely on performance, that guy is Danks.

Lip

That was kind of my idea with Buehrle getting skipped. The schedule is set up where they could skip Buehrle, Humber, Peavy, and Jackson once each before the all-star break, and put them in the pen in between starts.

At least skipping Buehrle coming up would buy them a little more time to decide what they want to do.

soltrain21
05-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Trade Jackson or Danks. You could get more for Danks. So do that.

kufram
05-24-2011, 12:18 PM
I'm not convinced a trade is what we want to do considering Peavy has had one good performance. It was great performance but does that mean he's back to stay? Does that mean we can risk moving a starter now?

There are a lot of ideas for fixes out there, but what we really need is for this team, as it is, to drop the flawed team persona, pick themselves up together, and play to their capabilities. I've seen it happen before with other teams and there have been hints of it happening in the last few series. I'm not saying it will happen but I am saying it can happen.

As bad as we've been, we're only 4 or 5 games out of real contention. The Indians will win something like 111 games if they play like they have up to now for the rest of the year. Does anybody think that is going to happen? I don't.

Nelfox02
05-24-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm not convinced a trade is what we want to do considering Peavy has had one good performance. It was great performance but does that mean he's back to stay? Does that mean we can risk moving a starter now?

There are a lot of ideas for fixes out there, but what we really need is for this team, as it is, to drop the flawed team persona, pick themselves up together, and play to their capabilities. I've seen it happen before with other teams and there have been hints of it happening in the last few series. I'm not saying it will happen but I am saying it can happen.

As bad as we've been, we're only 4 or 5 games out of real contention. The Indians will win something like 111 games if they play like they have up to now for the rest of the year. Does anybody think that is going to happen? I don't.


point taken----but I would say his first start was not too bad either, nothing like what we saw at the cell, but solid

Lip Man 1
05-24-2011, 12:48 PM
Kufram:

I don't think Cleveland can keep it up but it's almost Memorial Day and at some point in the next month, you're going to have to say they are for real if they keep playing above .500 baseball.

The concern to me isn't necessarily Cleveland per se but the fact that the Sox are now 10 games out and it's not even June 1st. If they come back from this road trip 12 or 13 out, they are probably done with any hope for the post season, save for the chance to at least finish the season with a winning record.

Lip

DonnieDarko
05-24-2011, 02:05 PM
How many games back are we in the Wild Card? That's looking more and more like our only hope these days...

jdm2662
05-24-2011, 02:16 PM
How many games back are we in the Wild Card? That's looking more and more like our only hope these days...

Well, if you look past the Indians, the rest of the AL is a cluster **** hovering around .500. Even with their subpar record, the Sox are only 4.5 games out of the wild card. Of course, they are behind lots of teams, but none of those teams have taken over just yet.

Noneck
05-24-2011, 02:24 PM
The concern to me isn't necessarily Cleveland per se but the fact that the Sox are now 10 games out and it's not even June 1st. If they come back from this road trip 12 or 13 out, they are probably done with any hope for the post season, save for the chance to at least finish the season with a winning record.



I feel the same with the addition of being behind 3 teams makes its real tough and having a year when the Sox were not in the hunt the whole season is extremely painful. Even with a winning season.

kufram
05-24-2011, 02:39 PM
Kufram:

I don't think Cleveland can keep it up but it's almost Memorial Day and at some point in the next month, you're going to have to say they are for real if they keep playing above .500 baseball.

The concern to me isn't necessarily Cleveland per se but the fact that the Sox are now 10 games out and it's not even June 1st. If they come back from this road trip 12 or 13 out, they are probably done with any hope for the post season, save for the chance to at least finish the season with a winning record.

Lip

I don't follow other teams so I have no insight to Cleveland's success so far but a 30-15 record speaks for itself. I'd be surprised if any team in the central could keep up that pace for the year is all I'm saying. At this point I don't think we are unreachably behind anybody. (Is unreachably a word? Don't think so, but I hope you know what I mean).

I don't give up easily... it is not in my nature. Yogi said it best. It ain't over til it's over. This team has played so poorly that I hope the worst is behind us. Notice I used the word "hope". I'd say we need to tread water, at the least, on this road trip. That is no small ask. It would be helpful if the Indians lost every once in a while, but I'm sure they will eventually. We don't need miracles as yet, but we do need to play 6-4 baseball consistently. That, I feel, is not too much to hope for. It might not happen but I'm not giving up on a season until I'm ready to stop watching baseball for the year and I'm not there yet.

With over a hundred games to go anybody can still win the division.... even the Twins.

Tragg
05-24-2011, 04:29 PM
I think Humber will be sent to the pen as well. Sending Danks or Jackson to the bullpen isn't going to help trade value or Elias ranking. If/when someone is sent packing he can return to the rotation at some point. A trade would indeed alleviate the rotation issue, but I don't think Kenny is at that point just yet.
But we ought to be looking at trades hard because it could help us. Trade one of these upper level pitchers for a couple of outfield prospects......