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View Full Version : New documentary compares Bartman with Buckner


Fenway
04-27-2011, 05:08 PM
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/04/26/catching-hell-examines-medias-role-in-scapegoating/


Interesting putting these 2 together - Buckner was the first ESPN megagoat.

Right after the 86 World Series the city still had a rally at city hall and Buckner was cheered loudly. 4 years later he fought his way back onto the Red Sox roster and got the loudest ovation of the day.

But ESPN kept playing the clip over and over.

What the Chicago media did to Bartman is worse than anything the NY tabloids have ever done - when you report where the nam lives and works that is just wrong.

russ99
04-27-2011, 05:35 PM
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/04/26/catching-hell-examines-medias-role-in-scapegoating/


Interesting putting these 2 together - Buckner was the first ESPN megagoat.

Right after the 86 World Series the city still had a rally at city hall and Buckner was cheered loudly. 4 years later he fought his way back onto the Red Sox roster and got the loudest ovation of the day.

But ESPN kept playing the clip over and over.

What the Chicago media did to Bartman is worse than anything the NY tabloids have ever done - when you report where the nam lives and works that is just wrong.

Yes, but Buckner was playing the game and made an error and the Red Sox had chances to win the game before that.

Steve Bartman just did what any other fan would do.

Comparing them is just silly and propogates that ridiculous "curse" mentality.

They should be comparing Buckner and Alex Gonzalez.

kittle42
04-27-2011, 05:47 PM
They should be comparing Buckner and Alex Gonzalez.

Why this is lost on so many people is beyond me.

spawn
04-27-2011, 05:50 PM
Why this is lost on so many people is beyond me.

Because it's more fun to mock, ridicule, and embarrass the guy that didn't make the error that opened the floodgates and prevented your team from making it to the World Series. Just amazing that people are still talking about Bartman and not Gonzalez.

Fenway
04-27-2011, 05:52 PM
Yes, but Buckner was playing the game and made an error and the Red Sox had chances to win the game before that.

Steve Bartman just did what any other fan would do.

Comparing them is just silly and propogates that ridiculous "curse" mentality.

They should be comparing Buckner and Alex Gonzalez.


That ship sailed years ago.....

Buckner and Bartman became the goats even though they should not have.

It is no secret that Rich Gedman drank himself out of baseball as he was convinced he cost Boston the series....wild pitch, passed ball - he thought he should have stopped it. That is when the game was lost...

Frontman
04-27-2011, 06:08 PM
At first when I saw the thread title I thought, "Here we go again."

But the idea of looking at sports media as the culprit for sensationalism isn't a bad thing. It reminds me of all the talking heads who complained about "Favre Watch" even though they were the one's who started it in the first place.

Bucky F. Dent
04-27-2011, 06:27 PM
An utter and complete waste of resources.

Madvora
04-27-2011, 06:53 PM
Every theater this is showing in should be wrecking balled while the movie is playing.

DSpivack
04-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Every theater this is showing in should be wrecking balled while the movie is playing.

It was supposed to be a 30-on-30. I'm interested in watching it.

Brian26
04-27-2011, 08:03 PM
They should be comparing Buckner and Alex Gonzalez.

Actually, they should be comparing Bob Stanley and his wild pitch to Alex Gonzalez. Mookie Wilson was probably going to beat Buckner to first base anyway.

manders_01
04-28-2011, 02:58 AM
They should be comparing Buckner and Alex Gonzalez.

Actually, they should be comparing Bob Stanley and his wild pitch to Alex Gonzalez. Mookie Wilson was probably going to beat Buckner to first base anyway.

Did either of you actually read the article? :scratch: The documentary is about how the media made these two men scapegoats, not that they were the reasons for the teams loses. It also mentions nothing about them being compared, that is just what the OP titled the thread.

An utter and complete waste of resources.

Why? Because someone is examining what many already know, the media can take anything a twist it into something completely different just for ****s and giggles?

Every theater this is showing in should be wrecking balled while the movie is playing.

Why? Based on the article, it looks like it will be a really interesting flick.

Madvora
04-28-2011, 08:25 AM
Why? Based on the article, it looks like it will be a really interesting flick.

It was supposed to be a 30-on-30. I'm interested in watching it.
I was just considering wiping out a large Cubs/Red Sox population all at once.

manders_01
04-28-2011, 11:11 AM
I was just considering wiping out a large Cubs/Red Sox population all at once.

LOL Well that's okay then! :D:

SephClone89
04-28-2011, 11:28 AM
Did either of you actually read the article? :scratch: The documentary is about how the media made these two men scapegoats, not that they were the reasons for the teams loses. It also mentions nothing about them being compared, that is just what the OP titled the thread

Bingo.

The headline is "‘Catching Hell’ Examines Media’s Role in Scapegoating," for God's sake.

downstairs
04-28-2011, 01:24 PM
I think people are mis-understanding what the movie is about. Its not a re-hash of the Buckner and Bartman stories. Its a movie about how the media and fans scapegoat people in sports. Its actually looking at the side of the story I *wish* was covered more.

Fenway
04-28-2011, 01:32 PM
Did either of you actually read the article? :scratch: The documentary is about how the media made these two men scapegoats, not that they were the reasons for the teams loses. It also mentions nothing about them being compared, that is just what the OP titled the thread.






It does compare them in the sense that the media made them goats.

Unlike Bartman who was hated within minutes - Buckner when it happened was not blamed by anyone....but ESPN showing the clip 456,359,2745 times fed it.

Vin Scully said he was not happy that clip is the best known of all his calls....

TommyGavinFloyd
07-13-2011, 05:08 AM
Just watched this and it was really, really good. I'd recommend it to anyone just as a captivating story. Some really crazy details I had never heard before.

TomBradley72
07-13-2011, 08:04 AM
Just watched this and it was really, really good. I'd recommend it to anyone just as a captivating story. Some really crazy details I had never heard before.

Me too- just rented it while traveling for work.

If anyone ever brings up anything negative about White Sox fan behavior- remind them of Cubs fans chanting "*******, *******, *******" at Steve Bartman as the team on the field threw tantrums (Alou), choked on double play balls(Rodriguez), and let in 8 runs that had nothing to do with the foul ball.

The film/audio of the aftermath of the Bartman incident will turn your stomach.

downstairs
07-13-2011, 01:50 PM
Just watched this and it was really, really good. I'd recommend it to anyone just as a captivating story. Some really crazy details I had never heard before.

How did you watch it? I don't see it on TV or available anywhere?

g0g0
07-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Me too- just rented it while traveling for work.

If anyone ever brings up anything negative about White Sox fan behavior- remind them of Cubs fans chanting "*******, *******, *******" at Steve Bartman as the team on the field threw tantrums (Alou), choked on double play balls(Rodriguez), and let in 8 runs that had nothing to do with the foul ball.

The film/audio of the aftermath of the Bartman incident will turn your stomach.

It was scary as hell as any mob would be. I hope one day people can focus on the Cubs choking rather than one fan who just wanted a souvenir.

Tragg
07-13-2011, 04:01 PM
Both incidents are way overblown. Either team could easily have overcome either incident (both clubs had the lead in the series at the time).
But re one v. the other, Buckner absolutely booted a ball; Bartman acted as a regular fan.

TommyGavinFloyd
07-13-2011, 08:14 PM
How did you watch it? I don't see it on TV or available anywhere?

It was available on demand a few weekends ago as a sneak peek, my friend bought it and recorded it. I think it will air in September.

skobabe8
07-13-2011, 10:10 PM
Wow...based on some of the comments from those who have seen this, I can't wait.

ESPN blows but these 30 for 30s have been terrific.

slavko
07-15-2011, 01:11 PM
Bartman's not forgotten. The Marlins announcer mentioned his name as Marmol was exploding on 7/14. Highlights on MLB.com

PalehosePlanet
07-15-2011, 01:32 PM
I remember FOX constantly showing Bartman (it seemed like at east 30 different isolated close up shots) after Alou's tantrum. At one time my wife yelled at the TV Stop showing him FOX, you're going to get the kid killed! It was absolutely despicable what FOX did that night.

TommyGavinFloyd
07-16-2011, 08:27 AM
I remember FOX constantly showing Bartman (it seemed like at east 30 different isolated close up shots) after Alou's tantrum. At one time my wife yelled at the TV Stop showing him FOX, you're going to get the kid killed! It was absolutely despicable what FOX did that night.

Yeah this is covered in the documentary. The head of the Fox production truck is interviewed throughout and he definitely has some remorse. Another very interesting part of the documentary and why it is worth watching. It's not just a baseball story, it's a human story.