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diehardRLsoxfan
04-23-2011, 02:46 PM
OK, so there are runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out and a line drive is hit to the shortstop who drops the ball intentionally to turn a double play. Keep in mind that it was a line drive so no infield fly was called.

Is this legal? If not what would the result of the play be? I looked all over trying to find an answer to this, if anyone could shed some light on in as well as provide a link to the rule stating this it would be greatly appreciated!

LITTLE NELL
04-23-2011, 03:11 PM
OK, so there are runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out and a line drive is hit to the shortstop who drops the ball intentionally to turn a double play. Keep in mind that it was a line drive so no infield fly was called.

Is this legal? If not what would the result of the play be? I looked all over trying to find an answer to this, if anyone could shed some light on in as well as provide a link to the rule stating this it would be greatly appreciated!

I'm sure its legal, but a players basic instinct on a hard hit line drive is to catch the ball and get the out, I'm not sure he would have the time to think about intentionally dropping the ball and try for the DP. I would not want to take the chance, take the out and maybe double off one of the runners the conventional way.

diehardRLsoxfan
04-23-2011, 03:18 PM
I'm sure its legal, but a players basic instinct on a hard hit line drive is to catch the ball and get the out, I'm not sure he would have the time to think about intentionally dropping the ball and try for the DP. I would not want to take the chance, take the out and maybe double off one of the runners the conventional way.

Thanks. I saw it happen in the Cubs game today and I was arguing with my buddy, if what you say is right then I am wrong as well as the umpires as they ruled the batter out and the runners stayed at the bases that they were at.

PalehosePlanet
04-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Thanks. I saw it happen in the Cubs game today and I was arguing with my buddy, if what you say is right then I am wrong as well as the umpires as they ruled the batter out and the runners stayed at the bases that they were at.

I've seen it go both ways. I think the umpire's discretion is that if he feels the player caught the ball but then quickly and intentionally dropped it afterward to create a dp/tp opportunity, they'll rule a catch (i.e. the catching player had it long enough/control of the ball.)

But, also, as Little Nell stated, you don't see players take this risk because the ball could roll 15 feet away from you and everyone is safe.

LITTLE NELL
04-23-2011, 04:06 PM
Then I was wrong, but I don't think in my 60 years of following the game that I've ever seen it happen. I hope I get to see a replay on TV tonight.

diehardRLsoxfan
04-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Then I was wrong, but I don't think in my 60 years of following the game that I've ever seen it happen. I hope I get to see a replay on TV tonight.

I would imagine they would show it, at least on local highlights.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-23-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't think there's a rule stating that it's illegal to do so, but I'm sure it's frowned upon. One of those "unwritten rules".

Besides, if a fielder sees a ball screaming at him, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking of how to intentionally drop it...he's going to try to catch it. It's natural baseball instinct. Also, as said earlier, the risk outweighs the reward...he could drop it, it could hit a pebble or something, and then everyone is safe.

Now, if it's a soft liner, that's a different story...those can be a lot harder to judge whether a potential drop was intentional or not in this scenario.

diehardRLsoxfan
04-23-2011, 06:35 PM
I don't think there's a rule stating that it's illegal to do so, but I'm sure it's frowned upon. One of those "unwritten rules".

Besides, if a fielder sees a ball screaming at him, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking of how to intentionally drop it...he's going to try to catch it. It's natural baseball instinct. Also, as said earlier, the risk outweighs the reward...he could drop it, it could hit a pebble or something, and then everyone is safe.

Now, if it's a soft liner, that's a different story...those can be a lot harder to judge whether a potential drop was intentional or not in this scenario.

In this situation it was a soft sinking liner.

Paulwny
04-23-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't think there's a rule stating that it's illegal to do so, but I'm sure it's frowned upon. One of those "unwritten rules".

Besides, if a fielder sees a ball screaming at him, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking of how to intentionally drop it...he's going to try to catch it. It's natural baseball instinct. Also, as said earlier, the risk outweighs the reward...he could drop it, it could hit a pebble or something, and then everyone is safe.

Now, if it's a soft liner, that's a different story...those can be a lot harder to judge whether a potential drop was intentional or not in this scenario.


It is illegal. The rule number was mentioned later in the game. It's up to the ump if he felt that the fielder deliberatly dropped the ball . The ruling is, batter is out, dead ball and runners return to their bases.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-24-2011, 05:44 PM
This happened in one of my own games! I am glad there is a thread on it. I was coaching 3rd and I have a feeling the 3rd baseman did it on purpose.

TDog
04-24-2011, 06:32 PM
Rule 6.05 (l) applies, I believe. I'm too lazy to provide a link, but you should be able to Google the official baseball rules.

It's really an umpire's judgment call. A player might be able to sell it as an unintentional drop. Obviously, if the infield fly rule in effect (which is not the case with line drives and bunts), there is no automatic out if the ball touches the ground before a fielder touches the ball, whether the player could have caught it or not. That is, a player can intentionally let a ball drop, but cannot intentionally drop it.

Nellie_Fox
04-25-2011, 01:02 AM
Rule 6.05 (l) applies, I believe.Yes.

605 (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases.

But I don't believe for a minute that you just happened to know the exact rule number and hadn't just looked it up.

TDog
04-25-2011, 01:55 AM
Yes.

605 (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases.

But I don't believe for a minute that you just happened to know the exact rule number and hadn't just looked it up.

I looked it up in Section 6 of my rulebook, which is a couple of years old. It didn't take long. It was quicker than looking it up on the Internet. Obviously, I don't have all of the rules memorized, but I've read the rules and know pretty much where to find things in the book.

Consistent with what I wrote, I was too lazy to Google MLB rules and provide a link.

FielderJones
04-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Consistent with what I wrote, I was too lazy to Google MLB rules and provide a link.

They used to be on the MLB site in HTML format by section. Now they are in PDF format (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2010/official_rules/2010_OfficialBaseballRules.pdf).

TDog
04-26-2011, 03:45 PM
They used to be on the MLB site in HTML format by section. Now they are in PDF format (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2010/official_rules/2010_OfficialBaseballRules.pdf).

That settles it. My desktop went out, and it takes five minutes for my laptop to load the software to read PDF files, so I'll stick with my little baseball record book, which probably isn't out of date.

seventyseven
04-28-2011, 12:32 PM
Yes.

605 (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases.

But I don't believe for a minute that you just happened to know the exact rule number and hadn't just looked it up.

I don't believe a bunt, however, is covered by "fair fly ball or line drive," correct?

Nellie_Fox
04-28-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't believe a bunt, however, is covered by "fair fly ball or line drive," correct?I don't know how a bunt could get to a fielder on the fly without being popped up, in which case the infield fly rule would apply. I think they have pretty well covered not allowing you to put runners in a "no-win" situation like that.

voodoochile
04-28-2011, 12:44 PM
I don't know how a bunt could get to a fielder on the fly without being popped up, in which case the infield fly rule would apply. I think they have pretty well covered not allowing you to put runners in a "no-win" situation like that.

I believe it's a umpire discretion thing. I saw a SS intentionally trap a weakly hit "line drive" (really more of a bloop drive) years ago and the umps ruled IF fly even though the ball never was more than 5 feet off the ground and was "caught" near shoetop level.

TDog
04-28-2011, 02:17 PM
I don't know how a bunt could get to a fielder on the fly without being popped up, in which case the infield fly rule would apply. I think they have pretty well covered not allowing you to put runners in a "no-win" situation like that.

A bunt, by definition, cannot result in an "infield fly", however appropriate the designation may seem to a popped up bunt. It's a specific rule book thing covered in the Section 2 definitions. I'm not going to bother to dig out my rule book because the Section 2 definitions are in alphabetical order.

Infielders when I was growing up were taught not to catch fair popped up bunts that appeared catchable if two or more runners are on base specifically because to put runners in the "no win" situation.

I seldom see infielders letting popped up bunts drop. Their reaction is to catch the ball. Barry Zito is on the disabled list with a knee injury sustained when not letting a popped up bunt drop. In my life I've seen the White Sox bunt into two triple plays when players on the infield didn't let popped up bunts drop. (The second might have loaded the bases if the first baseman had not made a great play.) Still, after a fielder catches a popped up bunt with two men on base to retire only the batter, you will generally hear the announcer or analyst who has had time to reflect say the fielder should have let that ball drop.