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View Full Version : *Official* No Rays of hope for Dark Clouds, 5-0 Post-Loss Therapy Thread


Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:07 PM
Disgust ad nauseum...

VMSNS
04-18-2011, 08:08 PM
All in!!!

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Corpseball

aryzner
04-18-2011, 08:10 PM
It's times like these when I wonder why I like this team.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:10 PM
The only positive to come out of this game is that it started at 5:40 Central, and ended by 8:10. At least I can go to bed early. It looks like the Sox hitters didn't get out of bed today at all.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Shall we tip our caps? Was this one of the 60 we were going to lose anyway?

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2011, 08:12 PM
I honestly thougt this team would not struggle hitting this year. Most of the same faces and same suckage.

I hope Walker packed a light suitcase for this trip.

Soxman219
04-18-2011, 08:12 PM
Ever since that bullpen meltdown they've sucked.

From a chance to be the best in the league to now possibly the worst.

ALL IN!

GoGoCrede
04-18-2011, 08:13 PM
Shall we tip our caps? Was this one of the 60 we were going to lose anyway?

When the weather warms up they'll hit their stride, etc.

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Shall we tip our caps? Was this one of the 60 we were going to lose anyway?

Could be one of the 90 we might lose.
Heading to TB tomorrow to root our boys on, hope they snap out of it.

Noneck
04-18-2011, 08:14 PM
When the weather warms up they'll hit their stride, etc.

I believe the weather was perfect today and will be for the rest of the Tampa series.

JB98
04-18-2011, 08:15 PM
Nothing like a five-game losing streak in April to excite the fan base!

I knew it was over after the first inning. I've gone into full-blown "expect to lose" mode with these guys. These guys couldn't stink any more right now if they took a bath in ****.

doublem23
04-18-2011, 08:16 PM
At least there was no bunting

tstrike2000
04-18-2011, 08:16 PM
Go Bulls.

Chicago5oooh
04-18-2011, 08:16 PM
This is what $125mm gets you?

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
When the weather warms up they'll hit their stride, etc.

Hitting coach is the hardest uniformed coaching job in the universe.

Nelfox02
04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
eh, tip your cap.....tough to play in domes......um its Monday? I m sure they will come up with some more excuses of justify that its okay because its April and who cares anyway.......

pretty typical stuff from this team so far, but when you stop and think about it was there really any reason to expect 2010 to be a radical departure from what we saw in 2010? Adam Dunn is not the type of player that can carry a team, and although he is an upgrade you lost key parts like Garcia, Putz and Jenks......the same brain trust still runs the team.....

I am honestly not all that surprised by the record thus far, the bull pen epic suckfest was a bit surprising, but the last few days have pretty much been par for the sox course when considering circumstances (cold weather, domes, rookie pitchers, Weaver, sunday games, etc)

Quentin08
04-18-2011, 08:18 PM
All in!!!

tstrike2000
04-18-2011, 08:18 PM
Hitting coach is the hardest uniformed coaching job in the universe.

And into the next life...

soltrain21
04-18-2011, 08:18 PM
eh, tip your cap.....tough to play in domes......um its Monday? I m sure they will come up with some more excuses of justify that its okay because its April and who cares anyway.......

pretty typical stuff from this team so far, but when you stop and think about it was there really any reason to expect 2010 to be a radical departure from what we saw in 2010? Adam Dunn is not the type of player that can carry a team, and although he is an upgrade you lost key parts like Garcia, Putz and Jenks......the same brain trust still runs the team.....

I am honestly not all that surprised by the record thus far, the bull pen epic suckfest was a bit surprising, but the last few days have pretty much been par for the sox course when considering circumstances (cold weather, domes, rookie pitchers, Weaver, sunday games, etc)

No reason at all...

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2011, 08:18 PM
pretty typical stuff from this team so far, but when you stop and think about it was there really any reason to expect 2010 to be a radical departure from what we saw in 2010? Adam Dunn is not the type of player that can carry a team, and although he is an upgrade you lost key parts like Garcia, Putz and Jenks......the same brain trust still runs the team.....

Fun with typos! I expected 2010 to be very much different from 2010! :tongue:

RadioheadRocks
04-18-2011, 08:19 PM
All in!!!


Actually when referring to "all in" as being exhausted, that slogan fits this team like a glove.

SoxFan1979
04-18-2011, 08:21 PM
ALL IN :angry:

ChiSoxGirl
04-18-2011, 08:22 PM
Another steaming pile. :angry: The more things change (adding Dunn to the offense) the more they stay the same. Whoever referenced corpseball hit the nail on the head. So much for that 6-3 start; we're now 7-9. "All in" my ass. PATHETIC. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

KMcMahon817
04-18-2011, 08:23 PM
At least there is 146 games to turn this **** around.

tstrike2000
04-18-2011, 08:23 PM
If "All In" means all in the toilet bowl, then that sounds about right.

johnnyg83
04-18-2011, 08:25 PM
"all in" ... the fire pit

ChiSoxGirl
04-18-2011, 08:30 PM
If "All In" means all in the toilet bowl, then that sounds about right.

:roflmao:

Hartman
04-18-2011, 08:30 PM
I'm convinced....year after year this team gets off to extremely slow starts because they do jack **** in spring training. Forget the hitters...our pitching staff is NEVER ready to play in April.

GoGoCrede
04-18-2011, 08:32 PM
I'm convinced....year after year this team gets off to extremely slow starts because they do jack **** in spring training. Forget the hitters...our pitching staff is NEVER ready to play in April.

Could be. I'm just sick of the same old show year after year.

doublem23
04-18-2011, 08:33 PM
Hitting coach is the hardest uniformed coaching job in the universe.

Yeah, where's that thread advocating for Walk getting a huge extension after the 1st week of the season?

http://th329.photobucket.com/albums/l373/wiz0_0/th_duckhunt.gif

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm convinced....year after year this team gets off to extremely slow starts because they do jack **** in spring training. Forget the hitters...our pitching staff is NEVER ready to play in April.

I brought the point up a few times in the last few years that we suck in ST and when the bell rings in April , we don't hear it.

JB98
04-18-2011, 08:34 PM
I'm convinced....year after year this team gets off to extremely slow starts because they do jack **** in spring training. Forget the hitters...our pitching staff is NEVER ready to play in April.

:scratch:

Sox starting pitchers have a pretty solid 3.91 ERA.

Hartman
04-18-2011, 08:35 PM
I brought the point up a few times in the last few years that we suck in ST and when the bell rings in April , we don't hear it.

Well it's a pattern now. And the type of lifelessness that is displayed is the same EVERY year. Gutless. At some point you have to pinpoint the coaching staff and their preparation of the team.

Noneck
04-18-2011, 08:36 PM
Sox starting pitchers have a pretty solid 3.91 ERA.

Agree, The starters have not been the problem.

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2011, 08:36 PM
Well it's a pattern now. And the type of lifelessness that is displayed is the same EVERY year. Gutless. At some point you have to pinpoint the coaching staff and their preparation of the team.

Agree 100%

doublem23
04-18-2011, 08:36 PM
:scratch:

Sox starting pitchers have a pretty solid 3.91 ERA.

Yeah, the pitching... Well, the SP, has not been a problem. Bullpen? Sucks. Offense? Horrendous the last week. 7 runs in the last 4 games. Not gettin' it done.

ChicagoG19
04-18-2011, 08:37 PM
:scratch:

Sox starting pitchers have a pretty solid 3.91 ERA.

It's pretty much been the bullpen and the offense disappearing the last 4-5 games that has me concerned. Hopefully things turn around over the next couple of days.

slavko
04-18-2011, 08:37 PM
This is what $125mm gets you?

If hitting is contagious and winning is contagious, then it follows that blown saves quickly infest the rest of the game. And we're infested. HEY ORKIN MAN!!

Soxfest
04-18-2011, 08:38 PM
Sox look completely DOA!

tstrike2000
04-18-2011, 08:38 PM
:scratch:

Sox starting pitchers have a pretty solid 3.91 ERA.

Yeah, starting pitching has been a little shaky the last three games, but as a whole it hasn't been too bad. Minus the defense, bullpen saves those games earlier and our offense actually shows up over the weekend, things look drastically different.

doublem23
04-18-2011, 08:38 PM
Agree 100%

The Twins and Tigers had 2 of the best records this Spring, and they're both off to worse starts than us.

Spring Training is pointless guys.

JB98
04-18-2011, 08:40 PM
It's pretty much been the bullpen and the offense disappearing the last 4-5 games that has me concerned. Hopefully things turn around over the next couple of days.

Don't forget the defense. They've stunk in all aspects *except* starting pitching.

Even though Jackson gave up four tonight, at least he got through seven innings.

Hartman
04-18-2011, 08:41 PM
It's not necessarily about record as it is getting prepared for the season. The bullpen looks completely lost out there...like they just stepped off the plane from vacation and into the season. Our SPs have been OK but not dominant. Beuhrle had one dominant game, Jackson one dominant game, the rest have been average.

Boondock Saint
04-18-2011, 08:42 PM
The Twins and Tigers had 2 of the best records this Spring, and they're both off to worse starts than us.

Spring Training is pointless guys.

I don't think anyone's talking about winning. Everyone's been coming out of ST looking just as dead as they did when it started.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-18-2011, 08:49 PM
Doesn't everybody know? This is all part of Ozzie's master plan to bring the bullpen's confidence back up by not putting them in situations where they'll blow it! He's a mad genius, that Ozzie Guillen!!

I feel like punching someone.

JB98
04-18-2011, 09:00 PM
It's not necessarily about record as it is getting prepared for the season. The bullpen looks completely lost out there...like they just stepped off the plane from vacation and into the season. Our SPs have been OK but not dominant. Beuhrle had one dominant game, Jackson one dominant game, the rest have been average.

Danks has had two good starts out of three. Floyd was dominant against Tampa Bay. Humber has been about as good as you would expect from a No. 5 guy with only a handful of starts in the big leagues. Both of Jackson's wins were well-deserved. Buehrle had one great outing and three average ones.

I think the Sox starters would get a 'B' grade to this point. They could be a little better, sure, but I think it's off base to say they "weren't ready for the season" or whatever.

veeter
04-18-2011, 09:02 PM
As much as I hate watching these Ozziesox, it all comes down to divisional play. Hopefully they hold their own within the central. If they don't this year launch Ozzie's ass!

Hitmen77
04-18-2011, 09:03 PM
The 2011 Sox are starting to look like a continuation of the 2010 White Sox.....who often looked like a repeat of the 2009 White Sox.

Passion:whiteflag:, Pride:anon:, Tradition:angry:!!!!

The Immigrant
04-18-2011, 09:10 PM
Depressing.

Gammons Peter
04-18-2011, 09:12 PM
Depressing.

Wait til you hear the Peavy news

LongLiveFisk
04-18-2011, 09:15 PM
All in!!!

Like I said in the game thread, "All In Deep ****" with this team come September if this continues.

TDog
04-18-2011, 09:21 PM
Joe Maddon obviously doesn't respect the baseball geniuses at WSI, sacrifice bunting at every opportunity, especially with his No. 2 hitter. The Rays still won.

The losing streak has been frustrating, of course. but the Sox tonight ran into a dominate pitching performance. Jackson had a chance tonight, but he gave up four runs with two outs. In some respects, it was the reverse of the White Sox home opener. When the Rays were in Chicago, they came in not having the lead all year. Now, after the Sox had led in every game this season until Friday night, it is the white Sox who haven't held a lead since the Angels' four-run inning against Humber Friday night.

It would be reactionary to compare this losing streak to the offensive troubles last season, although once again this year the Sox have their regular designated hitter hitting below .200 in April. The current hitting slump followed a great offensive start and coincided with facing some elite starting pitching. It also coincided with Dunn returning to the lineup, although he didn't play tonight. The Rays actually played some great defense tonight behind Price. Maybe forcing Price to pitch out of the stretch more would have taken its toll tonight. Maybe not.

It's also possible that the hitting took a sharp turn south after the last bullpen loss due to the pressure of no lead feeling safe. Sort of the same thing as pitchers failing under the pressure of the offense not scoring many runs. Whatever, the team is out of sync. The talent it is there for the team to play itself out of it.

I don't know what is going on with Thornton. All of a sudden, he looks like a mirror image of Scott Linebrink on the mound. Some tough breaks and bad pitches, but always runs seem to follow.

It's still April. I would like to see some better outfield defense, but this isn't a bad baseball team.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Joe Maddon obviously doesn't respect the baseball geniuses at WSI, sacrifice bunting at every opportunity, especially with his No. 2 hitter. The Rays still won.
.

Those zero runs the Rays scored thanks to the bunt really helped their cause.

soltrain21
04-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Joe Maddon obviously doesn't respect the baseball geniuses at WSI, sacrifice bunting at every opportunity, especially with his No. 2 hitter. The Rays still won.

The losing streak has been frustrating, of course. but the Sox tonight ran into a dominate pitching performance. Jackson had a chance tonight, but he gave up four runs with two outs. In some respects, it was the reverse of the White Sox home opener. When the Rays were in Chicago, they came in not having the lead all year. Now, after the Sox had led in every game this season until Friday night, it is the white Sox who haven't held a lead since the Angels' four-run inning against Humber Friday night.

It would be reactionary to compare this losing streak to the offensive troubles last season, although once again this year the Sox have their regular designated hitter hitting below .200 in April. The current hitting slump followed a great offensive start and coincided with facing some elite starting pitching. It also coincided with Dunn returning to the lineup, although he didn't play tonight. The Rays actually played some great defense tonight behind Price. Maybe forcing Price to pitch out of the stretch more would have taken its toll tonight. Maybe not.

It's also possible that the hitting took a sharp turn south after the last bullpen loss due to the pressure of no lead feeling safe. Sort of the same thing as pitchers failing under the pressure of the offense not scoring many runs. Whatever, the team is out of sync. The talent it is there for the team to play itself out of it.

I don't know what is going on with Thornton. All of a sudden, he looks like a mirror image of Scott Linebrink on the mound. Some tough breaks and bad pitches, but always runs seem to follow.

It's still April. I would like to see some better outfield defense, but this isn't a bad baseball team.

I'm pretty sure 0 of the Rays runs came because of the sac bunt.

DirtySox
04-18-2011, 09:29 PM
I'm pretty sure 0 of the Rays runs came because of the sac bunt.

You just don't understand how to play baseball "the right way."

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 09:39 PM
18 runs in the last seven games.

Wow...

:shocked:

Lip

Brian26
04-18-2011, 09:41 PM
Joe Maddon obviously doesn't respect the baseball geniuses at WSI, sacrifice bunting at every opportunity, especially with his No. 2 hitter. The Rays still won.

Sac bunts during the course of a game when your team has the lead are a different scenario than what we saw yesterday: a sac bunt with only three outs left in the game with the Sox down by two runs and a rookie closer on the ropes. Totally different scenario.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 09:44 PM
I honestly don't know if how you play / take spring training carries over into the season or not.

What I do know is that the Sox have a manager who publicy proclaims that "spring training doesn't mean anything" and continues to play minor league cannon fodder right up through the final games.

I also know the Sox have now started the last three years in a funk when the "real" season began.

Coincidence?

Maybe...maybe not.

Lip

It'sADunnBomb
04-18-2011, 09:45 PM
Wait til you hear the Peavy news
I've lost all hope with Peavy. Wouldn't bother me a bit if I never saw him in a Sox uniform again.

LongLiveFisk
04-18-2011, 09:47 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/signaturepics/sigpic14987_1.gif
We're all in.....a slump.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-18-2011, 10:06 PM
I honestly don't know if how you play / take spring training carries over into the season or not.

What I do know is that the Sox have a manager who publicy proclaims that "spring training doesn't mean anything" and continues to play minor league cannon fodder right up through the final games.

I also know the Sox have now started the last three years in a funk when the "real" season began.

Coincidence?

Maybe...maybe not.

Lip

lol thank you this is 100% spot on.

JB98
04-18-2011, 10:09 PM
Pierre "tips his cap":

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/

So tired of hearing that phrase from Sox hitters. How about bludgeoning the opposition, so they have to tip their cap to the Sox?

TDog
04-18-2011, 10:10 PM
Sac bunts during the course of a game when your team has the lead are a different scenario than what we saw yesterday: a sac bunt with only three outs left in the game with the Sox down by two runs and a rookie closer on the ropes. Totally different scenario.

I totally missed the game yesterday because my local Borders had its last-day sale when it finally started offering deep discounts. And I'm not a fan of sacrifice bunts. But most major league managers are. The closer your games, the weaker your hitting, including your slumps, the more likely your manager, any manager, is to bunt. And yet, last year, the Texas Rangers led the American League in sacrifice bunts.

Tonight the bunt set up the Rays' first run, and set up a three-run inning, which was pretty much the offense for the game. Maddon even had his No. 2 hitter bunting with a late four-run lead. And his team is playing well.

TDog
04-18-2011, 10:14 PM
I honestly don't know if how you play / take spring training carries over into the season or not.

What I do know is that the Sox have a manager who publicy proclaims that "spring training doesn't mean anything" and continues to play minor league cannon fodder right up through the final games.

I also know the Sox have now started the last three years in a funk when the "real" season began.

Coincidence?

Maybe...maybe not.

Lip

The White Sox began the season with a winning road trip. They didn't begin the season in a funk.

palehozenychicty
04-18-2011, 10:17 PM
Those bullpen blowups have detonated this team. Dag. :mad:

ChiSoxGal85
04-18-2011, 10:30 PM
Argh! I'm glad I something fun to do tonight that forced me to miss most of this game. It took my mind off the (yet again) lackluster performance of our Sox, especially at the plate. Has the entire lineup forgotten how to hit? I think Omar (bench player!) might be the only guy who's done his job at the plate lately.

The Rays made some tremendous defensive plays and it seems David Price was quite effective today. But still...It just seems like everything is going wrong for the Sox these days. I hope this slump is over soon.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 10:35 PM
T-Dog:

A "winning" road trip against the dregs of the American League isn't exactly awe inspiring. (and yes I know what Cleveland's and Kansas City's records are, spare me...talk to me if they have the same type record in July) And in fact they had to pull a rabbit out of their ass to get that "winning" road trip by scoring four in the 9th at K.C. then win it in extra's. How many times is that going to happen? They were a breath away from starting the season with a "losing" road trip weren't they?

Here's what I do know:

2011: Sox are 7-9 first 16 games
2010: 5-11 first 16 games
2009: 8-8 first 16 games

"Beginning the season" isn't three games T-Dog as you know damn well or five games, it's the first month to six weeks.

And the Sox have been mediocre to miserable the first month the past two years and appear to be dancing down that same road this season.

That's another thing I know.

Is it connected to the way they act / conduct spring training? (The fundamentals are wonderful again this season aren't they? - LOL)

I honestly don't know but the circumstantial evidence is pointing in that direction.

Lip

chisoxflafan
04-18-2011, 11:20 PM
I am heading up to Tampa today. Hopefully they show up. I have not seen the Sox in 20 years and wondering if I should wait another 20.:scratch:

Noneck
04-18-2011, 11:26 PM
I am heading up to Tampa today. Hopefully they show up. I have not seen the Sox in 20 years and wondering if I should wait another 20.:scratch:

I guess that depends on your age and health.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 11:36 PM
Thought this might be of some interest. A member of the Chicago media and I have been enchanging e-mails tonight. I recommended this thread to him because honestly some of the comments are really funny (in a hilarious way...) and the fans aren't sparring anything regarding their feelings right now.

This is their reply:

"I especially liked the one about no bunting.

This is one of the dangers when you don't shake up the furniture and keep the same nucleus.

And I'm on board with the fans who blast the slow start. Some people still haven't learned from last year, with the poor start and subsequent energy spent on catching up, left the Sox with nothing down the stretch.

I didn't have a great, great feeling about the offense this upcoming year when they struggled late in spring vs. Weaver because they didn't do well at all vs. tough pitchers this spring.

I picked them to win the division only because of questions with Detroit and Minn. This season has 2008 written all over it, blowing games early and hoping to hold on.

Saw where someone leaked to Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports about the Sox not looking outside for pitching help but was told by a scout they have nothing in the minors right now."

Lip

soltrain21
04-18-2011, 11:45 PM
Thought this might be of some interest. A member of the Chicago media and I have been enchanging e-mails tonight. I recommended this thread to him because honestly some of the comments are really funny (in a hilarious way...) and the fans aren't sparring anything regarding their feelings right now.

This is their reply:

"I especially liked the one about no bunting.

This is one of the dangers when you don't shake up the furniture and keep the same nucleus.

And I'm on board with the fans who blast the slow start. Some people still haven't learned from last year, with the poor start and subsequent energy spent on catching up, left the Sox with nothing down the stretch.

I didn't have a great, great feeling about the offense this upcoming year when they struggled late in spring vs. Weaver because they didn't do well at all vs. tough pitchers this spring.

I picked them to win the division only because of questions with Detroit and Minn. This season has 2008 written all over it, blowing games early and hoping to hold on.

Saw where someone leaked to Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports about the Sox not looking outside for pitching help but was told by a scout they have nothing in the minors right now."

Lip

It doesn't take a scout to know we have nothing in the minors right now.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 11:54 PM
Some folks here would disagree with you citing Infante and or Bruney (sorry if I didn't spell his name correctly...)

I don't claim to know the minor league system so I can't say one way or another.

Lip

Falstaff
04-19-2011, 12:00 AM
Who is the emotional sparkplug/leader on this team? Once upon a time we had Cabrera willing to call out corpseball teammates when needed, but I guess that emabarassed Ozzie so "he gone". Somebody has to get mad, make em care, since the paycheck evidently wont buy enough coffee for these dozers.
Who on the team will step up? Or will it have to be a fan?

DirtySox
04-19-2011, 12:12 AM
Some folks here would disagree with you citing Infante and or Bruney (sorry if I didn't spell his name correctly...)

I don't claim to know the minor league system so I can't say one way or another.

Lip

Bruney isn't anything special. Infante has control issues. Carter has a good fastball but weak secondaries. One of them might be serviceable, but I wouldn't expect much more than that. None of these guys are sniffing a top 100 prospect list. And yes, the farm system is awful right now. Bottom 3 in baseball.

hi im skot
04-19-2011, 12:15 AM
I've lost all hope with Peavy. Wouldn't bother me a bit if I never saw him in a Sox uniform again.

This post is just as awesome as your signature.

guillensdisciple
04-19-2011, 12:19 AM
Who is the emotional sparkplug/leader on this team? Once upon a time we had Cabrera willing to call out corpseball teammates when needed, but I guess that emabarassed Ozzie so "he gone". Somebody has to get mad, make em care, since the paycheck evidently wont buy enough coffee for these dozers.
Who on the team will step up? Or will it have to be a fan?

I've been pining about this for years. Look at the bench, all our leaders are soft and quiet. No one will speak up and do anything to combat a ****ty start. No one will take the team and kick it in the rear ala Johnny Damon earlier in the season to spur the Rays (look at how well they're playing since then).

Repeats, I am repeating myself, but that is what the White Sox are doing. It's quiet sickening truth be told and I am growing extremely bored of all of it. Losses do not surprise me. Lack of care does not surprise me. If I was in this organization I would not give a **** either because it's the same drama filled bull**** year after year.

Somewhere along the line these White Sox will make a run and Ozzie will put his legs out and say that it was all in the plans and somewhere along the lines the bullpen will fail or the offense will fail and then the excuses will come.

Somewhere along the lines another year will be lost. and we will be told the same exact crap going into next year- that this franchise is serious about winning. Somewhere along the lines the fans will realize, and somewhere along the lines we just won't give a **** anymore.

BainesHOF
04-19-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm convinced....year after year this team gets off to extremely slow starts because they do jack **** in spring training. Forget the hitters...our pitching staff is NEVER ready to play in April.

Bingo.

BainesHOF
04-19-2011, 12:35 AM
Well it's a pattern now. And the type of lifelessness that is displayed is the same EVERY year. Gutless. At some point you have to pinpoint the coaching staff and their preparation of the team.

Bingo II.

TDog
04-19-2011, 12:39 AM
T-Dog:

A "winning" road trip against the dregs of the American League isn't exactly awe inspiring. (and yes I know what Cleveland's and Kansas City's records are, spare me...talk to me if they have the same type record in July) And in fact they had to pull a rabbit out of their ass to get that "winning" road trip by scoring four in the 9th at K.C. then win it in extra's. How many times is that going to happen? They were a breath away from starting the season with a "losing" road trip weren't they?

Here's what I do know:

2011: Sox are 7-9 first 16 games
2010: 5-11 first 16 games
2009: 8-8 first 16 games

"Beginning the season" isn't three games T-Dog as you know damn well or five games, it's the first month to six weeks.

And the Sox have been mediocre to miserable the first month the past two years and appear to be dancing down that same road this season.

That's another thing I know.

Is it connected to the way they act / conduct spring training? (The fundamentals are wonderful again this season aren't they? - LOL)

I honestly don't know but the circumstantial evidence is pointing in that direction.

Lip

I know you want to be spared, but the White Sox were the only team to beat the Indians in the first two weeks of the season. For your premise that bad mojo from ignoring the importance of spring training to have any validity, the Indians would have had to roll over the White Sox as well as everyone else. For your premise that the Royals were riding high on a great spring training to be valid in the context of the White Sox getting off to a lousy start to be valid, the Royals with their All-Star closer pitching at home with 3-run lead with two outs and none on in the ninth inning would not have lost that game in extra innings.

The Twins had a great spring, and they aren't doing as well as the White Sox. The Giants had a great spring, and the first week of the season, they played like no one on the field had since a baseball since the World Series parade. The Indians were barely above .500, and nobody but the White Sox beat them the first two weeks of the season.

You can make an argument that the White Sox got off to a bad start if you consider the start to extend beyond the first series of the homestand. But when you win six of your first nine and have scored more runs in the first nine games than any other first nine games in your team's history, it is hard to attribute blame to a hangover from not taking care of business in spring training.

The White Sox have put together a team with a strong offense and a strong starting rotation. I don't agree with the personnel choices. The bullpen is considerably weaker without Jenks and Putz and perhaps Linebrink, but Thornton seems have filled Linebrink's role. I wouldn't have signed a full-time DH when the outfield could use some improvement at the corners with players who could be DHing. I would love to see someone like Nate Schierholtz, an awesome defensive rightfielder, playing right. But I don't have the responsibility of building a team with personnel moves that affect other personnel moves.

Dan H
04-19-2011, 12:39 AM
I've been pining about this for years. Look at the bench, all our leaders are soft and quiet. No one will speak up and do anything to combat a ****ty start. No one will take the team and kick it in the rear ala Johnny Damon earlier in the season to spur the Rays (look at how well they're playing since then).

Repeats, I am repeating myself, but that is what the White Sox are doing. It's quiet sickening truth be told and I am growing extremely bored of all of it. Losses do not surprise me. Lack of care does not surprise me. If I was in this organization I would not give a **** either because it's the same drama filled bull**** year after year.

Somewhere along the line these White Sox will make a run and Ozzie will put his legs out and say that it was all in the plans and somewhere along the lines the bullpen will fail or the offense will fail and then the excuses will come.

Somewhere along the lines another year will be lost. and we will be told the same exact crap going into next year- that this franchise is serious about winning. Somewhere along the lines the fans will realize, and somewhere along the lines we just won't give a **** anymore.

I don't know if someone speaking out will help but I'd like to see it happen. A radio reporter said after the sweep that the Sox players weren't emotional and that they seemed more pre-occupied with catching a flight to Tampa than just getting swept by the Angels. Isn't that great?

Is this franchise serious about winning? We will have to see. If the team doesn't right itself, will it do something dramatic or just whine about attendance? It is not too early to be concerned. Bad starts lead to bad season. We can't count on this team having another 25-5 run. Ozzie should be angry at someone else besides his critics. Maybe he ought to look at himself.

RowanDye
04-19-2011, 02:05 AM
A couple of wins will turn things around.

Boondock Saint
04-19-2011, 02:43 AM
A couple of wins will turn things around.

That's generally how it happens. But they have to stop playing terrible baseball first.

Big Hurt so good
04-19-2011, 03:11 AM
Not a single word yet about Thornton? even in a meaningless appearance he manages to give up a home run?

so much for building up his confidence again...

forget closer, his days as an elite setup man are completely behind him... he can't locate an off-speed pitch, his fastball is 2-3 mph slower than normal and straight as can be...

lots of big leaguers can hit 95-96 mph that doesn't move...

great contract extension

like i said in another thread, since 2005 the sox are like groundhog day... same problems year after year after year... you'd think someone would learn:angry::angry::angry::angry:

hi im skot
04-19-2011, 09:22 AM
Not a single word yet about Thornton? even in a meaningless appearance he manages to give up a home run?

so much for building up his confidence again...

forget closer, his days as an elite setup man are completely behind him... he can't locate an off-speed pitch, his fastball is 2-3 mph slower than normal and straight as can be...

lots of big leaguers can hit 95-96 mph that doesn't move...

great contract extension

like i said in another thread, since 2005 the sox are like groundhog day... same problems year after year after year... you'd think someone would learn:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Pitchers, much like the everyday guys, go through slumps, too. I agree that Thornton doesn't appear to have what it takes to be a closer, but we can't just ignore his three years as a very good set-up man.

I think Thornton will be fine once he is removed from the closer role and he's back to a more defined set-up role.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-19-2011, 09:34 AM
Thought this might be of some interest. A member of the Chicago media and I have been enchanging e-mails tonight. I recommended this thread to him because honestly some of the comments are really funny (in a hilarious way...) and the fans aren't sparring anything regarding their feelings right now.

This is their reply:

"I especially liked the one about no bunting.

This is one of the dangers when you don't shake up the furniture and keep the same nucleus.

And I'm on board with the fans who blast the slow start. Some people still haven't learned from last year, with the poor start and subsequent energy spent on catching up, left the Sox with nothing down the stretch.

I didn't have a great, great feeling about the offense this upcoming year when they struggled late in spring vs. Weaver because they didn't do well at all vs. tough pitchers this spring.

I picked them to win the division only because of questions with Detroit and Minn. This season has 2008 written all over it, blowing games early and hoping to hold on.

Saw where someone leaked to Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports about the Sox not looking outside for pitching help but was told by a scout they have nothing in the minors right now."

Lip

I don't get why they said 2008...

ChiSoxGirl
04-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Well it's a pattern now. And the type of lifelessness that is displayed is the same EVERY year. Gutless. At some point you have to pinpoint the coaching staff and their preparation of the team.

Now THIS is a phenomenal post with "truth" written all over it.

doublem23
04-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Pitchers, much little the everyday guys, go through slumps, too. I agree that Thornton doesn't appear to have what it takes to be a closer, but we can't just ignore his three years as a very good set-up man.

I think Thornton will be fine once he is removed from the closer role and he's back to a more defined set-up role.

Yes, anyone who is completely writing Thornton off and willing to put him on the next plane out of Chicago has lost their god damn mind.

doublem23
04-19-2011, 11:36 AM
Well it's a pattern now. And the type of lifelessness that is displayed is the same EVERY year. Gutless. At some point you have to pinpoint the coaching staff and their preparation of the team.

This is just silly nonsense. This is a VETERAN team full of guys who have played professional baseball for 10+ years. They don't need a whole lot of RAH! RAH! bull**** to get motivated. The Sox have been a mediocre Spring Training team for most of Ozzie's tenure, and yet the Sox have had up years and down years. Anyone who actually believes this nonsense that a bunch of multimillionaire baseball players need to be treated like high school kids is ****ING INSANE. Yeah, the reason the Sox aren't winning is because Pauley didn't treat his 4th inning AB against an AA-ball pitcher in a 10-0 blowout like it was Game 7 of the World Series. EMOTION! RAAAAAAAAAWR.

Maybe the Sox just aren't very good. Maybe they're just on a slump. Factor the **** bullpen out of the equation and the Sox are something like 10-7 or 11-6 and still one of the best teams in the AL record-wise. Whatever's ailing them, though, is much bigger than Spring Training. That's silly.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Not a single word yet about Thornton? ...great contract extensionYeah, I'm sure YOU knew that Thornton would be torched this year and thus shouldn't get an extension. :rolleyes:

And what the hell do you mean "not a single word about Thornton?" This place has been overflowing with Thornton discussions. It's only died off a little the last few days because the losses have been the result of no offense rather than blown saves.

Big Hurt so good
04-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Yeah, I'm sure YOU knew that Thornton would be torched this year and thus shouldn't get an extension. :rolleyes:

And what the hell do you mean "not a single word about Thornton?" This place has been overflowing with Thornton discussions. It's only died off a little the last few days because the losses have been the result of no offense rather than blown saves.

i meant in this particular game thread

TheOldRoman
04-19-2011, 01:30 PM
Pierre "tips his cap":

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/

So tired of hearing that phrase from Sox hitters. How about bludgeoning the opposition, so they have to tip their cap to the Sox?Yeah, hearing that phrase makes me angry. This is why you don't start threads patting in hitting coach on the back two games into the season. We are going to get at least one month-long period where the entire offense slumps. That is a given based on this regime's history through many personnel changes. But we just have to wait until the weather warms up for them to hit. Oh, and when they go into another slump month in mid August, that is because it's too hot.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2011, 01:33 PM
i meant in this particular game threadSo every thread has to beat on Thornton, even if the reason they lost is BECAUSE THEY SCORED ZERO RUNS?

TheOldRoman
04-19-2011, 01:35 PM
Who is the emotional sparkplug/leader on this team? Once upon a time we had Cabrera willing to call out corpseball teammates when needed, but I guess that emabarassed Ozzie so "he gone". Somebody has to get mad, make em care, since the paycheck evidently wont buy enough coffee for these dozers.
Who on the team will step up? Or will it have to be a fan?Not true at all. Cabrera was gone because 1) he was a piece of crap who everyone hated; 2) his skills had declined noticably; and 3) he was going to get too much money. And I agreed with Ozzie about Cabrera. Of course, I agree with everything Cabrera said, but he didn't call the team out until the last week of the season. That team played like crap for extended stretches, including pretty much all September. If he needed to call guys out, he should have done it earlier.

TheOldRoman
04-19-2011, 01:36 PM
So every thread has to beat on Thornton, even if the reason they lost is BECAUSE THEY SCORED ZERO RUNS?If Thornton would have held the Rays to negative 5 runs in the 8th, the Sox were in a prime position to win the game.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2011, 01:40 PM
Not true at all. Cabrera was gone because 1) he was a piece of crap who everyone hated; 2) his skills had declined noticably; and 3) he was going to get too much money. And I agreed with Ozzie about Cabrera. Of course, I agree with everything Cabrera said, but he didn't call the team out until the last week of the season. That team played like crap for extended stretches, including pretty much all September. If he needed to call guys out, he should have done it earlier.And that's what Ozzie objected to. He said if you want to be a team leader, start leading at the beginning of the year, don't just point out problems at the end of the year.

ChiSoxGal85
04-19-2011, 01:54 PM
If Thornton would have held the Rays to negative 5 runs in the 8th, the Sox were in a prime position to win the game.
:rolling: Damn that Thornton. It's all his fault.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-19-2011, 01:54 PM
Not true at all. Cabrera was gone because 1) he was a piece of crap who everyone hated; 2) his skills had declined noticably; and 3) he was going to get too much money. And I agreed with Ozzie about Cabrera. Of course, I agree with everything Cabrera said, but he didn't call the team out until the last week of the season. That team played like crap for extended stretches, including pretty much all September. If he needed to call guys out, he should have done it earlier.

OC was totally solid for the 2008 White Sox and his numbers were right in line with what one would have expected out of him prior to his acquisition. At the top of the order, he scored only 3 fewer runs than the great leadoff hitter Juan Pierre did last year while driving in 16 more. While he made $10 mil in 2008, he signed with the A's for $4 mil in 2009 while the White Sox were playing the likes of Chris Getz, Josh Fields and Jason Nix around the infield.

Jim Shorts
04-19-2011, 01:57 PM
OMG! April 19 and we want Orlando Cabrera back?

Excuse me while I go gnaw on the business end of this here gun.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-19-2011, 01:59 PM
OMG! April 19 and we want Orlando Cabrera back?

Excuse me while I go gnaw on the business end of this here gun.

Nobody said anything about wanting him back.

Jim Shorts
04-19-2011, 02:02 PM
Nobody said anything about wanting him back.

Probably my fault since I got lost in the bipolarity of this thread.

Resume, at your leisure.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Probably my fault since I got lost in the bipolarity of this thread.

Resume, at your leisure.

I really enjoyed the business end of a gun comment so thanks for that. :smile:

Jim Shorts
04-19-2011, 02:15 PM
I really enjoyed the business end of a gun comment so thanks for that. :smile:

you're quite welcome!

Frankfan4life
04-19-2011, 02:16 PM
Went to the game yesterday and was thoroughly disappointed. I have to give it to Price because he pitched very well and the Rays were throwing some leather. But I could see a difference in the Sox and the Rays. The Rays seemed ready to play on every pitch, either ready to run or make a play. It just seemed to me that the Sox were flat. Maybe a losing streak takes it's toll but you have to snap out of it by playing smart and being aggressive. For the most part, I just didn't see that yesterday.

Big Hurt so good
04-19-2011, 02:19 PM
So every thread has to beat on Thornton, even if the reason they lost is BECAUSE THEY SCORED ZERO RUNS?

Why must you take it to extremes? when every other aspect of the game has been touched on I am not allowed to be concerned that the guy can't even come into a game for mop-up duty and not allow a run?

All I am saying is that it would have been nice with the game pretty much in the books to see him come on have his first 1-2-3 inning and maybe be on the track to getting back to All-Star form... but he couldn't even do that...

nowhere did i say it was his fault or say one word about the anemic offense which has been discussed a ton already

BringHomeDaBacon
04-19-2011, 02:22 PM
Why must you take it to extremes? when every other aspect of the game has been touched on I am not allowed to be concerned that the guy can't even come into a game for mop-up duty and not allow a run?

All I am saying is that it would have been nice with the game pretty much in the books to see him come on have his first 1-2-3 inning and maybe be on the track to getting back to All-Star form... but he couldn't even do that...

nowhere did i say it was his fault or say one word about the anemic offense which has been discussed a ton already

I agree with you. If his struggles are tied to the ninth inning that's one thing, but if he can't even get people in low pressure situations then that's something that could be an even greater source of concern.

Frankfan4life
04-19-2011, 02:38 PM
I agree with you. If his struggles are tied to the ninth inning that's one thing, but if he can't even get people in low pressure situations then that's something that could be an even greater source of concern.Maybe a trip to the minors would help him get his confidence, approach, rhythm or whatever he's suffering from, back. But, it's so early in the season though that, hopefully, he'll work through this and come out of his funk soon.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2011, 03:45 PM
Why must you take it to extremes? when every other aspect of the game has been touched on I am not allowed to be concerned that the guy can't even come into a game for mop-up duty and not allow a run?

All I am saying is that it would have been nice with the game pretty much in the books to see him come on have his first 1-2-3 inning and maybe be on the track to getting back to All-Star form... but he couldn't even do that...

nowhere did i say it was his fault or say one word about the anemic offense which has been discussed a ton alreadyI did not take it to extremes. You asked why no one was talking about Thornton in a game thread about a 5-0 loss. The answer is because there has been plenty of reasons to talk about Thornton in plenty of other threads this year, but this particular thread was not one of them. Thornton was irrelevant in this particular thread, and has been discussed extensively in other threads, some of which are still active.

hi im skot
04-19-2011, 04:39 PM
Maybe a trip to the minors would help him get his confidence, approach, rhythm or whatever he's suffering from, back. But, it's so early in the season though that, hopefully, he'll work through this and come out of his funk soon.

Is this the same Gordon Beckham that had a great spring training and got off to a pretty solid start this season?

He's not going to be one of the all-time greats, but he's going to be fine.

It'sADunnBomb
04-19-2011, 04:42 PM
This post is just as awesome as your signature.
It comes natural to me, I've been voicing my dislike for thornton since 2008 and peavy after his comments on asking for a trade if we were going into rebuilding mode last year. I've gotten to become one of the most bitter Sox fans I know. This team has been a drag since 2009, but I can't seem to stop watching them.

LITTLE NELL
04-19-2011, 04:45 PM
This team has me in such a funk right now that I decided not to drive the 90 miles to TB for tonights game. If they win the next 2, maybe Thursday.

doublem23
04-19-2011, 05:33 PM
It comes natural to me, I've been voicing my dislike for thornton since 2008 and peavy after his comments on asking for a trade if we were going into rebuilding mode last year. I've gotten to become one of the most bitter Sox fans I know. This team has been a drag since 2009, but I can't seem to stop watching them.

Yeah, except Matt Thornton's one of the best relief pitchers of the past few seasons.

It'sADunnBomb
04-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah, except Matt Thornton's one of the best relief pitchers of the past few seasons.
I like to think he has had luck the past 2-3 years with that fastball, and it's finally starting to catch up with him. I admit in 2008 he was dominate with his fastball and slider(when he used it). No so much since.

SI1020
04-20-2011, 04:08 PM
I like to think he has had luck the past 2-3 years with that fastball, and it's finally starting to catch up with him. I admit in 2008 he was dominate with his fastball and slider(when he used it). No so much since. What happened to the slider? I remember him mixing it in effectively.

slavko
04-20-2011, 04:16 PM
What happened to the slider? I remember him mixing it in effectively.

I think the problem is location on both the slider and fastball. Not walk everybody location, but hittable/not as hittable location. He can't throw either of them down the middle and expect them to not be hit. Neither one moves a lot. Liney threw a fastball 1-2 MPH slower and a better slider and 2 other pitches and couldn't locate them so he got creamed. That's what's happening to Matt.