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View Full Version : *Official* "Really?" 4/8 Postgame Thread


MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-08-2011, 11:23 PM
*shakes head*

Well, that sucked.

Closers, apply at USCF.

DaveFeelsRight
04-08-2011, 11:24 PM
Wasn't thorny's fault

skobabe8
04-08-2011, 11:24 PM
Defense sucked, but Thornton is not a closer.

Carneyman14
04-08-2011, 11:24 PM
Sale or Santos. Pick one. Thornton sucks.

sox1970
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
Defense sucked, but Thornton is not a closer.

This. Santos or Crain, please.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
I know I know I get it I completely understand there were errors but Thornton didn't have to groove a fastball and with that being said he is a 1 pitch pitcher and he makes me nervous as a closer. His slider is more of a show me pitch and he has no knee buckling off speed pitch.

whitesox4eva
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
Defense sucked, but Thornton is not a closer.

Agreed. Not Thornton's fault but he should NOT be closing.

Nelfox02
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
this one.....not sure what to say here.....Teahen gets that hit and figure this is done deal, trying to debate whether he or Crain is the player of the game.....then complete implosion.

Domeshot17
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
Every one sucked in the 9th. Catch the ball, throw the ball, it is simple. 2 easy plays botches. That Said, Matt Thornton simply can't give up that Home Run. He has to be able to over come the errors, that is what premier closers do.

skobabe8
04-08-2011, 11:25 PM
Santos.

Patrick134
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
I've never liked lefty closers. Too many quality right handed hitters out there.

JB98
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Defense sucked, but Thornton is not a closer.

Agreed on both counts. Let's close with somebody who has more than one pitch. I like Sale. I'm willing to entertain the idea that Santos could do the job as well.

Tampa Bay was ready to continue a lengthy losing streak and the Sox just woke 'em up. Now, it's going to be a battle the rest of the weekend.

Typical Sox. That's why I'm cautious about being too optimistic this year. We've got the best roster on paper in the division, but we just make too damn many mental and physical errors.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Wasn't thorny's fault

Grooved a fastball. :scratch:

JermaineDye05
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
not so fun fact-

The White Sox are 0-2 when I don't get the game on TV down here. In both cases, the bullpen blew the game late.

VMSNS
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
**** that ****. I need a beer.

sox1970
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
And the thing about Thornton is he used to say he preferred setting up. Deep down, I think he knows he's not cut out for the last three outs.

OmahaSoxFan
04-08-2011, 11:27 PM
Good job boys, way to snatch a loss from the jaws of victory!

Pathetic effort in the top of the ninth by the Sox tonight... that was a good way to breathe some life into a hapless Rays team tonight... This shouldn't have been the night to awaken them.

Soxman219
04-08-2011, 11:27 PM
Thornton is not a closer, put him back on set-up man where he belongs

Crain
Thornton
Santos or Sale

.

RadioheadRocks
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Wasn't thorny's fault

:rolleyes:

Maybe not in total, but he sure as hell didn't help!

Woofer
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
I only have two things to say:
1. Matt looks like he is gaining weight.
2. Coop will fix em.

russ99
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Seems to me these guys let up a bit in the late innings. A few dumb baserunning mistakes and a few bad errors and there we go.

Guess this makes us even after winning the Royals game we totally gave away.

If Matt's afraid to to throw the slider more, he better work on another pitch pronto.

PeteWard
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Why didn't Alexei set himself more instead of that terrible side arm toss while moving towards right field? That was the game.

SoxSpeed22
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Good job, Johnny.
****

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
I say Sale.

OmahaSoxFan
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Thornton is not a closer, put him back on set-up man where he belongs

Crain
Thornton
Santos or Sale

.

I say give Thornton two more chances to close, and if he fails - then back to 8th inning set-up man he goes... and promote Santos to closer - I am thinking he is our best option for closer - with Sale waiting in the wings if Sergio happens to falter.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Thornton is not a closer, put him back on set-up man where he belongs

Crain
Thornton
Santos or Sale

.

Not Crain.

Santos or Sale I'd say.

Viva Medias B's
04-08-2011, 11:29 PM
This is inexcusable.

infohawk
04-08-2011, 11:29 PM
The bullpen is definitely slumping. It's either some guys just struggling with location etc., or maybe guys are just in the wrong roles right now.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:29 PM
Grooved a fastball. :scratch:

On the 4th out of the inning

DirtySox
04-08-2011, 11:29 PM
If there is to be a change I hope it's Santos. If Sale becomes closer I fear he won't be given his shot to start next year.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2011, 11:29 PM
And poor Mark Teahen. Just when he was about to get some love from us. All we can think about now is :angry::angry::angry:

skobabe8
04-08-2011, 11:30 PM
**** that ****. I need a beer.

Not strong enough.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:30 PM
Not Crain.

Santos or Sale I'd say.

What did Crain do to you? He was magnificent today. Best pitcher the Sox had all game.

ChiSoxGirl
04-08-2011, 11:31 PM
This one stings... bad. Damn those two errors and FIVE unearned runs! :angry: Thornton just hasn't looked good in the closer's role at all. Give Santos a shot or give the ball to Sale who has the experienced he gained last year working to his advantage.

Rongey's show should be epic. :popcorn: I'm tuned in.

DirtySox
04-08-2011, 11:31 PM
What did Crain do to you? He was magnificent today. Best pitcher the Sox had all game.

Agreed. I wouldn't be averse to him closing.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2011, 11:31 PM
What did Crain do to you? He was magnificent today. Best pitcher the Sox had all game.

Like Thornton, I prefer him as a set-up man. I didn't mean it as I don't like him as a pitcher.

sox1970
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
If there is to be a change I hope it's Santos. If Sale becomes closer I fear he won't be given his shot to start next year.

My thoughts exactly. I don't want a Feliz situation next year.

ChiSoxGirl
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
And poor Mark Teahen. Just when he was about to get some love from us. All we can think about now is :angry::angry::angry:

Seriously. Teabag had a hell of a game tonight, but it'll all be forgotten after the comedic routine that was the top of the ninth. :angry:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
I say give Thornton two more chances to close, and if he fails - then back to 8th inning set-up man he goes... and promote Santos to closer - I am thinking he is our best option for closer - with Sale waiting in the wings if Sergio happens to falter.

I'd rather not, because if Thornton blows two more saves, not only will the team suffer, Thornton himself will likely be shattered mentally.

Santos or Sale have looked good when given the opportunity - Santos was on lockdown mode in extras in KC, and Sale has by and large looked collected in pressure situations.

Thornton has around a 50% save conversion percentage for his career. That is terrible. Thornton needs to be put back in 8th inning duty starting tomorrow.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
On the 4th out of the inning

True but as someone said a good closer over comes that. Its like in past seasons when Hawk says White Sox pitchers have a tough time pitching over mistakes. He didn't say it tonight but that is what Thornton did. Yes, was it the 4th out? In therory but there was 1 out and he grooved it. Thats your ballgame.

Nelfox02
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
other than the 2 game that Jackson pitched, this has been nasty. Offense has been pretty darn good overall, but mashing does not win titles.

This was shaping up so positive too, Danks has a solid start, Crain was huge, bats were big, defense overall sharp...and then they just totally fell apart

wow......this team just finds really creative ways to implode....i will give them that. the sox the last few years never cease to amaze me with their ability to **** the bed

skobabe8
04-08-2011, 11:33 PM
Santos.

All day everyday.

JermaineDye05
04-08-2011, 11:34 PM
Seriously. Teabag had a hell of a game tonight, but it'll all be forgotten after the comedic routine that was the top of the ninth. :angry:

:mg:

I sure hope he doesn't know that that's his nickname.

Red Barchetta
04-08-2011, 11:34 PM
Well, the good news is that they will be wearing the pinstripes tomorrow...:D:

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:34 PM
What did Crain do to you? He was magnificent today. Best pitcher the Sox had all game.

True, Crain was. Sale, Santos and Crain don't have much expierence doing it. Neither does Thornton other than a few here and there. Really, this pen doesn't have a true closer so really you could draw a name out of hat and ride them until they screw up.

Zakath
04-08-2011, 11:35 PM
Just kept having that feeling all game that they were going to find a way to lose this one, but nothing can prepare you for that.

PalehosePlanet
04-08-2011, 11:36 PM
Bloop hit, K, error, error, broken-bat bloop hit, BOMB! Man oh man...

The Rays tonight looked like a 6-0 team with all the lucky breaks they had: Wild pitch out at the plate; bullet by Paulie right at 3B for a DP; non called balks that should have cost them a run; countless bloop hits; bunt that doesn't roll foul; a walk where 3 of the 4 pitches were strikes; etc...

Shields always seem to suck against us but always gets off the hook.

Terrible loss.

russ99
04-08-2011, 11:36 PM
True, Crain was. Sale, Santos and Crain don't have much expierence doing it. Neither does Thornton other than a few here and there. Really, this pen doesn't have a true closer so really you could draw a name out of hat and ride them until they screw up.

Cmon Kenny, trade some prospects to the Padres for Heath Bell.

Edit: yes I know it's only the 6th game...

voodoochile
04-08-2011, 11:36 PM
I've never liked lefty closers. Too many quality right handed hitters out there.

This is my main issue. However, I also figured Sale would be a major part of the bullpen this season and one of them then had to close.

This one wasn't all on Thornton but he let down big time when the defense failed to support him early in the inning and to a LHH too boot.

Get 'em tomorrow but this one hurts...

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:36 PM
My thoughts exactly. I don't want a Feliz situation next year.
Why not? Feliz is pretty good at closing...

sox1970
04-08-2011, 11:36 PM
Hey, but we have Humber starting tomorrow!!

Oh wait...

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:37 PM
Thornton was fine in save situations last year, in 8 saves, 9.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 11 K. Let's not pretend like he's never been there before. Alexei and Pierre make two routine plays and hey, we win.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-08-2011, 11:38 PM
Cmon Kenny, trade some prospects to the Padres for Heath Bell.

Edit: yes I know it's only the 6th game...

No, Epstein already offered a 36-year old A leaguer for Bell, and the SD GM jumped on it, saying it was "the best offer available".

TheOldRoman
04-08-2011, 11:38 PM
I only have two things to say:
1. Matt looks like he is gaining weight.
2. Coop will fix em.Yeah, and Thornton is getting really fat. He probably started drinking, too.

I was against making Thornton closer from the beginning. He was the absolute best at what he did, and he was far more valuable coming into the game in the 7th or 8th, often facing the other teams' toughest hitters. Removing him from that role and locking him it at closer hurts the team. Now we have the added bonus of whether or not he can mentally handle closing, as some setup guys can't. That was some horrible defense in the 9th, but he still gave up three hits including the towering homer to a terrible hitter. I understand that it's just a few bad games for him, but he is still far more valuable as a setup man.

Overall, not a fun night.

sox1970
04-08-2011, 11:39 PM
Why not? Feliz is pretty good at closing...

He is, but I think if I guy is built to be a starter, he should be given that opportunity. I'd rather have a good pitching prospect be in a rotation for several years than be a closer.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:40 PM
Cmon Kenny, trade some prospects to the Padres for Heath Bell.

Edit: yes I know it's only the 6th game...


Only if they throw in the setup man Luke Gregerson. :D:

mcsoxfan
04-08-2011, 11:40 PM
Defense sucked, but Thornton is not a closer.

I second that emotion.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:41 PM
Thornton was fine in save situations last year, in 8 saves, 9.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 11 K. Let's not pretend like he's never been there before. Alexei and Pierre make two routine plays and hey, we win.

Where did you get that line? I seem to remember some shaky outings.

Brian26
04-08-2011, 11:41 PM
Cmon Kenny, trade some prospects to the Padres for Heath Bell.

I think he already traded the only good prospects we had left for Peavy two years ago.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:42 PM
True but as someone said a good closer over comes that. Its like in past seasons when Hawk says White Sox pitchers have a tough time pitching over mistakes. He didn't say it tonight but that is what Thornton did. Yes, was it the 4th out? In therory but there was 1 out and he grooved it. Thats your ballgame.

I mean, I understand the frustration, and I'm certainly not going to tell people who are nervous about Thornton they're wrong, but I think a little more patience is in order here. Thornton has had success as a closer before, he's not a complete rookie to the role. The Sox were absolutely terrible behind him and his one big mistake was a challenge pitch to a pretty ****ty hitter.

Lots of blame to go around today. I'm not terribly interested in shuffling around the bullpen this early in the season, especially when everyone else is just as unproven.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:44 PM
Where did you get that line? I seem to remember some shaky outings.

That was just the 8 saves he racked up last year, he did have 1 terribly blown save, but otherwise, any other shakiness would have been in as a set-up man, not closing.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=thornma01&t=p&year=2010

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:44 PM
He is, but I think if I guy is built to be a starter, he should be given that opportunity. I'd rather have a good pitching prospect be in a rotation for several years than be a closer.

You have a great point. I'm just concerned with Sale's delivery holding up over 150+ innings. Then again everyone said Prior's delivery was flawless and look where he has been.
However, what was Mariano Rivera projected to be as a starter because that is what he was drafted as? Not saying Sale is him but just saying.

mcsoxfan
04-08-2011, 11:45 PM
The bullpen is definitely slumping. It's either some guys just struggling with location etc., or maybe guys are just in the wrong roles right now.

Or maybe these just aren't very good pitchers

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:47 PM
That was just the 8 saves he racked up last year, he did have 1 terribly blown save, but otherwise, any other shakiness would have been in as a set-up man, not closing.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=thornma01&t=p&year=2010

Ok, nice. I will take some sugar with my crow but he still scares me. Just wish he had a Bobby Jenks curveball or something. Doesn't mean I want Bobby back unless Bobby can become 1990 Bobby Thigpen.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:48 PM
Or maybe these just aren't very good pitchers

Ohman I'll give you. Thornton's had an amazingly consistent and excellent career as a relief pitcher, I don't know how much more proof a guy can present that he's a quality MLB pitcher. Sale and Santos have been good to great in their limited time in the Majors, but they could also be flashes in the pan, still not enough to authoritatively say they're not good pitchers. Crain looked great tonight. Humber sucks.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:50 PM
I mean, I understand the frustration, and I'm certainly not going to tell people who are nervous about Thornton they're wrong, but I think a little more patience is in order here. Thornton has had success as a closer before, he's not a complete rookie to the role. The Sox were absolutely terrible behind him and his one big mistake was a challenge pitch to a pretty ****ty hitter.


Lots of blame to go around today. I'm not terribly interested in shuffling around the bullpen this early in the season, especially when everyone else is just as unproven.

True, it is only been 7 games. It just sucks when I feel they should be 6-1 because the game Sunday in Cleveland iis the only one they have been out of.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2011, 11:52 PM
I did not see the game, but the score speaks for itself. Ugh. I'm kind of glad I couldn't go to the game tonight.

Lip Man 1
04-08-2011, 11:53 PM
About as bad a loss as you can possible have especially with Humber pitching Saturday. The Sox were this close to starting to build up some cushion (i.e. 5-2) and get off to the good start the organization was calling for.

I know the outrage directed towards Thornton and I understand it, after all this is the second game already this season the Sox bullpen blew and lost a game in the 7th inning or later BUT if the Sox simply catch the damn baseball he's not put in this situation.

I agree with JB, the Rays were begging to get beat again and the Sox let them off the hook.

Already we've seen the Sox bunt into a triple play, have outfielders drop catchable balls, seen a base runner get picked off at 2nd, seen a runner thrown out at 3rd trying to stretch a hit with the play right in front of him, seen A.J. botch a pick off and now this.

Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:53 PM
Ohman I'll give you. Thornton's had an amazingly consistent and excellent career as a relief pitcher, I don't know how much more proof a guy can present that he's a quality MLB pitcher. Sale and Santos have been good to great in their limited time in the Majors, but they could also be flashes in the pan, still not enough to authoritatively say they're not good pitchers. Crain looked great tonight. Humber sucks.

Thanks. he is the starter tomorrow. :o:

SoxFan1979
04-08-2011, 11:54 PM
Man this lose hurts. unreal it was a team effort on this let down. shnfijnefkjlasdfkjlbndtrkjlbsfjklebs aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh im so pissed.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:55 PM
Ok, nice. I will take some sugar with my crow but he still scares me. Just wish he had a Bobby Jenks curveball or something. Doesn't mean I want Bobby back unless Bobby can become 1990 Bobby Thigpen.

Well, as has been said, it's not like the secret's out that Thornton's a 1-pitch pitcher, but to this point he's been a stable, sometimes dominant RP for several years, I think that kind of consistency and performance deserves a little leeway when he's struggling, especially when he's still the most decorated option out there. Sale and Santos, sure, they've looked good, too, but they have a combined 83 IP in the Majors, I just don't know if that's enough time to develop the kind of mentality it takes to do this day in, and day out.

Of course, I absolutely respect anyone who is scared of Thornton closing, there are some good reasons. I just think, however, that if he can settle into the closer's rose, Sale and Santos settle in nicely behind him and then if Crain can pitch like he did tonight consistently, this bullpen crisis might figure itself out.

DirtySox
04-08-2011, 11:55 PM
Sox lead MLB in errors right now.

doublem23
04-08-2011, 11:55 PM
Thanks. he is the starter tomorrow. :o:

Oh I know and I got tickets to see it live!!!

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:57 PM
About as bad a loss as you can possible have especially with Humber pitching Saturday. The Sox were this close to starting to build up some cushion (i.e. 5-2) and get off to the good start the organization was calling for.

I know the outrage directed towards Thornton and I understand it, after all this is the second game already this season the Sox bullpen blew and lost a game in the 7th inning or later BUT if the Sox simply catch the damn baseball he's not put in this situation.

I agree with JB, the Rays were begging to get beat again and the Sox let them off the hook.

Already we've seen the Sox bunt into a triple play, have outfielders drop catchable balls, seen a base runner get picked off at 2nd, seen a runner thrown out at 3rd trying to stretch a hit with the play right in front of him, seen A.J. botch a pick off and now this.

Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip

Lip... not only the above in bold but how about being last in spring training again? I know the games don't count but makes me wonder how seriously ST is taken.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2011, 11:57 PM
I feel bad for you all who saw this in person.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:58 PM
Well, as has been said, it's not like the secret's out that Thornton's a 1-pitch pitcher, but to this point he's been a stable, sometimes dominant RP for several years, I think that kind of consistency and performance deserves a little leeway when he's struggling, especially when he's still the most decorated option out there. Sale and Santos, sure, they've looked good, too, but they have a combined 83 IP in the Majors, I just don't know if that's enough time to develop the kind of mentality it takes to do this day in, and day out.

Of course, I absolutely respect anyone who is scared of Thornton closing, there are some good reasons. I just think, however, that if he can settle into the closer's rose, Sale and Santos settle in nicely behind him and then if Crain can pitch like he did tonight consistently, this bullpen crisis might figure itself out.

I hope so and I hope so soon.

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:58 PM
Sox lead MLB in errors right now.

Really? Didn't i hear going into the season that catching the ball was suppose to be a strength???

Dub25
04-08-2011, 11:59 PM
I feel bad for you all who saw this in person.

Speaking of which... what was the attendance?

Parrothead
04-09-2011, 12:00 AM
Or maybe these just aren't very good pitchers

They (the whole pitching staff) are continuing their performance from their crappy spring. Where is the great cooper to fix all ?

doublem23
04-09-2011, 12:02 AM
speaking of which... What was the attendance?

20,199

DirtySox
04-09-2011, 12:02 AM
Speaking of which... what was the attendance?

Not very good. There was already a Padilla article hand-wringing about it.

Foulke You
04-09-2011, 12:02 AM
I know the outrage directed towards Thornton and I understand it, after all this is the second game already this season the Sox bullpen blew and lost a game in the 7th inning or later BUT if the Sox simply catch the damn baseball he's not put in this situation.

Absolutely. If we catch the baseball in that 9th inning, everyone is celebrating a White Sox winner and nobody is questioning Thornton's ability to close.


Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip
That 9th inning meltdown was bizarre. It seemed more mental than anything. Alexei turns a routine play into a bad throw and then Paulie doesn't scoop out a ball he normally does about 9 out of 10 times. Then after Pierre makes two amazing diving catches earlier in the game, he loses concentration and drops an easy fly ball. It felt all mental to me. It looked as if the Sox thought this was in the bag after Teahen drove in the 2 runs and they got blitzed by the Rays for it.

JB98
04-09-2011, 12:05 AM
The Sox have scored 52 runs their first seven games. That's very, very good.

Meanwhile, 4-3.

Foulke You
04-09-2011, 12:06 AM
Well, as has been said, it's not like the secret's out that Thornton's a 1-pitch pitcher, but to this point he's been a stable, sometimes dominant RP for several years, I think that kind of consistency and performance deserves a little leeway when he's struggling, especially when he's still the most decorated option out there.
This is an excellent point. He has pretty much always been a 1 pitch pitcher with kind've a "show-me" slider. The main difference I've seen in Thornton this year is that the velocity seems down on that 1 pitch. He was only hitting 95mph on the gun (according to WGN) instead of his usual 97-98. Hitters have been fouling off more of his pitches instead of missing it like they used to. Hopefully, it's just a glitch and he'll build that arm strength up as the season goes on.

CHISOXFAN13
04-09-2011, 12:06 AM
On the 4th out of the inning

He gave up four hits in the inning. What's your comment about the other three?

Corlose 15
04-09-2011, 12:07 AM
Couldn't watch the game, glad I couldn't. Apparently the Sox keep doing all the little things that prevent them from being a great team.

Dub25
04-09-2011, 12:07 AM
The Sox have scored 52 runs their first seven games. That's very, very good.

Meanwhile, 4-3.

This is the opposite of when the O usually starts cold and wastes good pitching efforts.

GoGoCrede
04-09-2011, 12:09 AM
This is the opposite of when the O usually starts cold and wastes good pitching efforts.

I must say, this is refreshing. Of course I'd love for both the offense and defense to hit their stride at once, but seeing wasted pitching efforts is so much more frustrating for me.

doublem23
04-09-2011, 12:10 AM
He gave up four hits in the inning. What's your comment about the other three?

Alexei makes that throw and Juan catches that pop-up, Sox win 7-4 and Thornton only allowed 1 hit in that inning.

Blame everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

RockJock07
04-09-2011, 12:15 AM
I've never liked lefty closers. Too many quality right handed hitters out there.

Billy Wagner disagrees.

Dub25
04-09-2011, 12:16 AM
I must say, this is refreshing. Of course I'd love for both the offense and defense to hit their stride at once, but seeing wasted pitching efforts is so much more frustrating for me.

I agree. You can never ever get enough good pitching.

aryzner
04-09-2011, 12:16 AM
Bad defense is really costing this team so far this year.

Ugh.. :angry:

Patrick134
04-09-2011, 12:27 AM
Billy Wagner disagrees.


He made boatloads of cash, but his 10.03 career postseason ERA agrees with me.

RockJock07
04-09-2011, 12:28 AM
Thornton was fine in save situations last year, in 8 saves, 9.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 11 K. Let's not pretend like he's never been there before. Alexei and Pierre make two routine plays and hey, we win.

This is a great point and cannot be understated. I didn't see the game but I just saw the highlights and both plays were routine as they get and they ****ed it up.

Also, what's with everyone now wanting Sale to close? Him and Thornton have similar stuff and Sale has no experience, this would be a terrible move IMO.

doublem23
04-09-2011, 12:29 AM
He made boatloads of cash, but his 10.03 career postseason ERA agrees with me.

11 innings of scattered work in October does not trump 900+ innings of regular season work

RockJock07
04-09-2011, 12:31 AM
He made boatloads of cash, but his 10.03 career postseason ERA agrees with me.

Noted, just saying that LH closers are and have been successful. Thornton is going to be fine.

aryzner
04-09-2011, 12:32 AM
I read the end of the game thread and I can't believe people are claiming that the loss is all Thornton's fault.

Do I blame him for throwing a fastball down the middle to whoever the hell hit that HR? Yes I do.

But dammit the Rays were given 5 outs that inning. The throwing error and the dropped fly ball were both routine plays for professional baseball players. Game should have been over. The Rays had no business winning tonight.

Hell, I'm pretty confident I would have caught that fly ball.

The errors and bonehead plays have frustrated me to no end so far and we are not even 10 games into the season.

doublem23
04-09-2011, 12:36 AM
This is a great point and cannot be understated. I didn't see the game but I just saw the highlights and both plays were routine as they get and they ****ed it up.

Also, what's with everyone now wanting Sale to close? Him and Thornton have similar stuff and Sale has no experience, this would be a terrible move IMO.

Even more than that, what scares me most about naming Sale or Santos the closer so early in the season is both are so young; Sale's obviously in his 1st full Major League season, Santos has only been a pitcher for 1 year in his career, and remember what happened to him last year, he started the year great but faded as things wore on and even admitted to having some dead arm last summer. My biggest concern with both those guys is I'm not convinced they entirely know how to pace themselves through the 162-game grind. And if you wear them out too fast, then you find yourself in the same position, scrambling to reorganize the bullpen.

As an astute poster noted, Thornton's fastball has lost a little zip so far this year. Today his average speed was 94.6 MPH (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=4&day=8&year=2011&game=gid_2011_04_08_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&pitchSel=407819&prevGame=gid_2011_04_08_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&prevDate=48). If you're going to be a 1-trick pony in the Majors, you need a + pitch, hitters are not intimidated by a 95-MPH fastball. That's the concern right now, whether or not the Sox can find a few clicks on the radar gun, if not then he should be demoted to the set-up role, but this early in the year, I still have more faith in Thornton finding his stuff, which he consistently has had for several years now, than I am overreacting and throwing Sale or Santos into situations they're not ready for.

We'll see.

slavko
04-09-2011, 12:40 AM
Absolutely. If we catch the baseball in that 9th inning, everyone is celebrating a White Sox winner and nobody is questioning Thornton's ability to close.


That 9th inning meltdown was bizarre. It seemed more mental than anything. Alexei turns a routine play into a bad throw and then Paulie doesn't scoop out a ball he normally does about 9 out of 10 times. Then after Pierre makes two amazing diving catches earlier in the game, he loses concentration and drops an easy fly ball. It felt all mental to me. It looked as if the Sox thought this was in the bag after Teahen drove in the 2 runs and they got blitzed by the Rays for it.

Paulie got a high hop on that ball and he was staying down and trying to come up which is how he's supposed to do it. No fault to him, he's saved our collective IF behind for a long time.

I have been consistent about my feelings for Matt as a closer. I'm not happy to be right so far. Remember when we were weeping and moaning that Foulke had only a mediocre fastball and that killer change and said he need a 3rd pitch to show batters? How much worse is a straight fastball and nothing else? I'm not sure that Santos is the answer either, but at least he has a small assortment. I thought that Jenks threw too many different pitches for a closer, ditto for MacDougal. Two and a half is just fine. One won't work.

I ought to be feeling happy, golf tomorrow, warmer weather, but I'm very sad Right About Now.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2011, 12:49 AM
I'll be very curious to see how the Sox come out and react Saturday given what happened Friday night and who the starting pitcher is. Given that Humber's starting they probably will have to play one of their best games overall to give him a reasonable chance.

I'll be satisfied, given what happened tonight, if they can win one of the last two (probably Sunday) and split the series. Just don't lose a series for as long as you can and you'll start building up wins. (Can't believe Cleveland, those sad-sacks are 5-2, that's the record the Sox should have! :angry:)

Lip

Dub25
04-09-2011, 12:49 AM
This is a great point and cannot be understated. I didn't see the game but I just saw the highlights and both plays were routine as they get and they ****ed it up.

Also, what's with everyone now wanting Sale to close? Him and Thornton have similar stuff and Sale has no experience, this would be a terrible move IMO.

I will give you that Thornton has more experience but Sale has better stuff.

fram40
04-09-2011, 12:50 AM
Bad defense is really costing this team so far this year.

Ugh.. :angry:

so is bad relief pitching. Blown saves in three of the last four games. That won't cut it.

Dub25
04-09-2011, 12:51 AM
I'll be very curious to see how the Sox come out and react Saturday given what happened Friday night and who the starting pitcher is. Given that Humber's starting they probably will have to play one of their best games overall to give him a reasonable chance.

I'll be satisfied, given what happened tonight, if they can win one of the last two (probably Sunday) and split the series. Just don't lose a series for as long as you can and you'll start building up wins. (Can't believe Cleveland, those sad-sacks are 5-2, that's the record the Sox should have! :angry:)

Lip

Keep winning 2 out of 3 and you will end up with 100 wins. They can do that winning tomorrow and Sunday.

PeteWard
04-09-2011, 12:51 AM
Paulie got a high hop on that ball and he was staying down and trying to come up which is how he's supposed to do it. No fault to him, he's saved our collective IF behind for a long time.



Definitely. When I watched that first replay, I thought it was bad luck that the ball jumped up so high. Hit PK in the forearm--I hope he is not hurting.
That thing handcuffed him and in no way can anyone justifiably claim he should have dug it out.

soxnut1018
04-09-2011, 12:55 AM
I feel bad for you all who saw this in person.

It was awful. ****ty weather and an even ****tier game. White Sox leftfielders have now dropped three routine flyballs.

On the plus side, Teahen and Crain had great games.

doublem23
04-09-2011, 12:59 AM
Definitely. When I watched that first replay, I thought it was bad luck that the ball jumped up so high. Hit PK in the forearm--I hope he is not hurting.
That thing handcuffed him and in no way can anyone justifiably claim he should have dug it out.

Yeah, we're spoiled because Paul has been so good at that almost his entire career, but it would have been a spectacular save if he had made the play. Of course, the blame lies on Alexei who threw the ball about 40 feet when he needed to throw it 100.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-09-2011, 01:32 AM
Horrible game. These are the games I hope don't come back and bite the Sox later in the year. Total group effort loss tonight.

WhiteSox5187
04-09-2011, 02:27 AM
It's not all on Thornton, but blowing his first two save opportunities has me very nervous. If your closer is on on the mound and you are up by three you HAVE to win. Absolutely inexcusable to lose that game. Thornton should be on a short leash because this is starting to me at least this is starting to feel a lot like 2007. I just do not trust this bullpen with leads right now.

wilburaga
04-09-2011, 02:37 AM
At least Thornton's not fat. I mean, how many World Series has Jenks won for us? One was kind of a fluke. What a despicable fatass. Fat, Fat, Fat. Hate, hate hate. We are so much better off without him. He's such a loser.

At least with Thornton, when our closer blows (every ****ing game), at least he's not fat. **** you, Bobby Jenks.

RadioheadRocks
04-09-2011, 02:42 AM
At least Thornton's not fat. I mean, how many World Series has Jenks won for us? One was kind of a fluke. What a despicable fatass. Fat, Fat, Fat. Hate, hate hate. We are so much better off without him. He's such a loser.

At least with Thornton, when our closer blows (every ****ing game), at least he's not fat. **** you, Bobby Jenks.

:rolleyes:

GoGoCrede
04-09-2011, 02:49 AM
:rolleyes:

Pretty sure it's implied teal. I think.

thomas35forever
04-09-2011, 03:12 AM
If Milledge was DFA'd quickly, there's no reason to think Thornton won't be out of the closer role soon. This can't keep up for the whole 162-game stretch.

soxnut1018
04-09-2011, 03:17 AM
Pretty sure it's implied teal. I think.

I REALLY hope so, but I'm not quite sure.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 03:28 AM
All I can do is laugh at this.

The Chicago White Sox should just have a sign that reads: One problem solved, another one created.

hawkjt
04-09-2011, 03:34 AM
Thornton has a laser straight fastball,so with it down to 94mph,it is very hittable...even by lefties.
He just is not blowing batters away with the 98 heat...and even last year showed that closing is not his forte.
I do not like lefty closers unless they throw 101mph like Wagner.
Sale was close to that,so I pushed for him,but if his stuff is off also,gotta look at Sergio or Crain.

Just cannot abide...

October26
04-09-2011, 07:03 AM
Awful, awful, awful! I had nightmares after watching the Sox play and pitch so poorly in the 9th inning of that game last night. Very disappointing loss.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-09-2011, 09:06 AM
Rays announcers referred to Thornton as a "one trick pony" - fastball. Hard to disagree but that trick has made him one of the league's most effective the last 3 years.

Also, PLEASE stop taking chances on the basepaths.

Tragg
04-09-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm not worried about the bullpen or the personnel really..This team should be hungry as hell, but it looks that it MIGHT be mentally lazy....and there's no way out of that pit.
Pure mistakes contributed to, if not caused, all 3 of our losses.

soxlady8
04-09-2011, 11:01 AM
All I can do is laugh at this.

The Chicago White Sox should just have a sign that reads: One problem solved, another one created.


Well said ... the closer role is scaring me now too .
I thought Thornton could get it done !

SOXSINCE'70
04-09-2011, 11:20 AM
Elroy Face, where for art thou?? :roflmao::roflmao:

SOXSINCE'70
04-09-2011, 11:24 AM
**** that ****. I need a beer.

Here's a beer for ya.Six of them, to be precise.:D:

:beer

Nelfox02
04-09-2011, 11:56 AM
Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip

Bingo......and there is no reason to expect it to change. Why? And Ozzie got another year to boot....so is there any reason to expect change then?

I think what we have here is a team that will follow a lot of the patterns we have come to expect from the sox as of late----they have too much talent to be "awful" but will have a lackluster first 2 months, turn it on in the early summer, but never get over the hump. They should finish a few games over .500. This is not a bad team, but I dont see any reason to feel it is a great one either.

lths06
04-09-2011, 11:59 AM
After watching the game yesterday I kept telling myself "this is only one game, only one game..." Let's just go out there and win today and forget about this one loss.

kufram
04-09-2011, 12:14 PM
Some people have already had one "this is just a bad team fundamentally moment" because of a bad loss, only to feel ecstatic with the late inning comeback the next. Neither of those two games are, necessarily, a definition of this team. I love baseball because there is another game the next day or near enough to right the ship or lose the momentum of a winning streak.

Nothing is lost yet except a couple of games we should have won and we won one you could say we should have lost. The team's character is still to be determined in my mind, but there are plenty of reasons to be hopeful. I'm certainly not making up my mind for quite some time.

Jerko
04-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Do we really need the closer with a 3 run lead? I've seen established closers pitch like **** with a big lead. I think Ozzie IS nervous about Thornton in the closer's role and stuck him in there for an "easy" save just to give him a boost. Doesn't work that way all the time.

flo-B-flo
04-09-2011, 12:30 PM
..............

I know the outrage directed towards Thornton and I understand it, after all this is the second game already this season the Sox bullpen blew and lost a game in the 7th inning or later BUT if the Sox simply catch the damn baseball he's not put in this situation.



..........Already we've seen the Sox bunt into a triple play, have outfielders drop catchable balls, seen a base runner get picked off at 2nd, seen a runner thrown out at 3rd trying to stretch a hit with the play right in front of him, seen A.J. botch a pick off and now this.

Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip

A mouthful.........just TOTALLY sick about the lack of fundamentals practiced by this team........for years..........:angry:

flo-B-flo
04-09-2011, 12:36 PM
At least Thornton's not fat. I mean, how many World Series has Jenks won for us? One was kind of a fluke. What a despicable fatass. Fat, Fat, Fat. Hate, hate hate. We are so much better off without him. He's such a loser.

At least with Thornton, when our closer blows (every ****ing game), at least he's not fat. **** you, Bobby Jenks.

pointless.........:rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
04-09-2011, 12:47 PM
Thinking about last night while trying to figure out the over / under on how many innings Humber pitches today. (I say five.)

In fairness to Thornton, you have to keep in mind that hitters haven't exactly been tatooing the ball off him.

In Kansas City that guy tied the game with a flair just off the end of the bat down the left field line. It was purely a defensive swing and against Tampa at least one and possible two of those balls came off broken bat swings.

That's just bad luck to go along with horrific fielding. No excuse for the home run but also like I said last night, if the Sox actually, you know, catch and throw the baseball, he's not in that position.

Lip

SI1020
04-09-2011, 01:00 PM
pointless.........:rolleyes: Sarcasm I believe.

KMcMahon817
04-09-2011, 01:09 PM
You really dislike Humber, huh Lip? That must be about your 10th shot at him in the past 48 hours.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 01:23 PM
False hope. Since 2005, this organization has given me a lot of that.

Ahh well, only 7 games in. I guess all these things can be resolved by game 80.

downstairs
04-09-2011, 01:46 PM
Note to White Sox: its a 9 inning game, not 8. Been that way for over 100 years.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 01:51 PM
Does anyone know who I can e-mail in terms of a problem I had with White Sox security last night? The head of security or even a higher up for that matter. For the first time in a long time I'd say the White Sox had a big jolt of Karma working against them. I am slightly disappointed in the way the White Sox treat fans. I was at the game and a friend of mine and I were drinking and lets just say that we were a little loud towards the opposing teams players. Regardless, in the fourth inning all these security guys walk up to my buddy and I take our tickets and proceed to kick us out of the stadium. All fine and dandy, and at the time I had no legitimate way of busting them for it, but I got no warning- which if given would have been followed immediately. There is no contract or pre game bill that states being loud is not allowed in the ball park, and if it's not I don't understand why you would go out of your way to just heave people out of places without fair warning. That's a back ass way of saying, hey we don't care about the money you spent being here or getting here, we just want you to get out.

Ehh, I see the wrong I had here, I really do and I have no problem admitting that it's childish to be screaming at opposing players and so I won't in the future. Regardless, I would have been as calm as a bird if they told me, and I think that is at least fair for a paying and loyal fan. I am really really disappointed right now.

Harry Potter
04-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Does anyone know who I can e-mail in terms of a problem I had with White Sox security last night? The head of security or even a higher up for that matter. For the first time in a long time I'd say the White Sox had a big jolt of Karma working against them. I am slightly disappointed in the way the White Sox treat fans. I was at the game and a friend of mine and I were drinking and lets just say that we were a little loud towards the opposing teams players. Regardless, in the fourth inning all these security guys walk up to my buddy and I take our tickets and proceed to kick us out of the stadium. All fine and dandy, and at the time I had no legitimate way of busting them for it, but I got no warning- which if given would have been followed immediately. There is no contract or pre game bill that states being loud is not allowed in the ball park, and if it's not I don't understand why you would go out of your way to just heave people out of places without fair warning. That's a back ass way of saying, hey we don't care about the money you spent being here or getting here, we just want you to get out.

Ehh, I see the wrong I had here, I really do and I have no problem admitting that it's childish to be screaming at opposing players and so I won't in the future. Regardless, I would have been as calm as a bird if they told me, and I think that is at least fair for a paying and loyal fan. I am really really disappointed right now.

Sounds like someone "RISEABOVE"'d you last night

SephClone89
04-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Does anyone know who I can e-mail in terms of a problem I had with White Sox security last night? The head of security or even a higher up for that matter. For the first time in a long time I'd say the White Sox had a big jolt of Karma working against them. I am slightly disappointed in the way the White Sox treat fans. I was at the game and a friend of mine and I were drinking and lets just say that we were a little loud towards the opposing teams players. Regardless, in the fourth inning all these security guys walk up to my buddy and I take our tickets and proceed to kick us out of the stadium. All fine and dandy, and at the time I had no legitimate way of busting them for it, but I got no warning- which if given would have been followed immediately. There is no contract or pre game bill that states being loud is not allowed in the ball park, and if it's not I don't understand why you would go out of your way to just heave people out of places without fair warning. That's a back ass way of saying, hey we don't care about the money you spent being here or getting here, we just want you to get out.

Ehh, I see the wrong I had here, I really do and I have no problem admitting that it's childish to be screaming at opposing players and so I won't in the future. Regardless, I would have been as calm as a bird if they told me, and I think that is at least fair for a paying and loyal fan. I am really really disappointed right now.

That's terrible, considering how bad the crowd was last night. Morons booing and heckling Sox players all night, not to mention booing the injured Shoppach. An absolute joke. I'm more disappointed in the fans last night than I am with the game itself.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 02:16 PM
That's terrible, considering how bad the crowd was last night. Morons booing and heckling Sox players all night, not to mention booing the injured Shoppach. An absolute joke. I'm more disappointed in the fans last night than I am with the game itself.

I told that to the security guy who kicked us out- I said you have 10000 fans in the stadium right now guy, and you're kicking out two people without warning for supporting their team and poking fun at the Rays. You want to have a loyal fan base and you're kicking out loyal fans who are young, good luck maintaining. It's embarrassing really, and in a way exactly what this organization deserves. I looked at the crowd and felt sick.

Sounds like someone "RISEABOVE"'d you last night

If you're talking about security man trying to claim his superiority over a pair of 22 year old college kids, then ye, he definitely made his own night.

SephClone89
04-09-2011, 02:19 PM
If you're talking about security man trying to claim his superiority over a pair of 22 year old college kids, then ye, he definitely made his own night.

He's referring to the "RISEABOVE" system that they have set up. You text a number and describe behaviour that's bothering you, and they come and take care of it.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 02:21 PM
He's referring to the "RISEABOVE" system that they have set up. You text a number and describe behaviour that's bothering you, and they come and take care of it.

So am I in the wrong here or are they in the wrong here? I am trying to figure out if I don't at least deserve fair warning. Considering I do spend my money not theirs at this game.

Nice system though, I can't say they're dumb for implementing it.

SephClone89
04-09-2011, 02:23 PM
So am I in the wrong here or are they in the wrong here? I am trying to figure out if I don't at least deserve fair warning. Considering I do spend my money not theirs at this game.

Nice system though, I can't say they're dumb for implementing it.

I've never had direct experience with the system, so I don't know about how they give fair warning or whatever. I guess it all depends on what kind of heckling you were doing. I'm all for "intelligent" heckling actually based on baseball knowledge, myself...

btw, I wasn't referring to the size of the crowd last night. I was referring to the quality.

hawkjt
04-09-2011, 02:24 PM
Were you the guys yelling about ''how do you like dem apples,damon?''

I could hear some guys yelling at several different Rays batters...they must have been close to the mike or something.

Was that you?

Surprised they would kick you out with no provocation...seems harsh.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Does anyone know who I can e-mail in terms of a problem I had with White Sox security last night? The head of security or even a higher up for that matter. For the first time in a long time I'd say the White Sox had a big jolt of Karma working against them. I am slightly disappointed in the way the White Sox treat fans. I was at the game and a friend of mine and I were drinking and lets just say that we were a little loud towards the opposing teams players. Regardless, in the fourth inning all these security guys walk up to my buddy and I take our tickets and proceed to kick us out of the stadium. All fine and dandy, and at the time I had no legitimate way of busting them for it, but I got no warning- which if given would have been followed immediately. There is no contract or pre game bill that states being loud is not allowed in the ball park, and if it's not I don't understand why you would go out of your way to just heave people out of places without fair warning. That's a back ass way of saying, hey we don't care about the money you spent being here or getting here, we just want you to get out.

Ehh, I see the wrong I had here, I really do and I have no problem admitting that it's childish to be screaming at opposing players and so I won't in the future. Regardless, I would have been as calm as a bird if they told me, and I think that is at least fair for a paying and loyal fan. I am really really disappointed right now.
I have a huge problem with this happening to you. I can see if you were heckling an opposing fan, but the opposing players are fair game as far as I am concerned. Shouldn't the goal be to make Comiskey a hostile environment for the other team? What a joke.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 02:29 PM
I've never had direct experience with the system, so I don't know about how they give fair warning or whatever. I guess it all depends on what kind of heckling you were doing. I'm all for "intelligent" heckling actually based on baseball knowledge, myself...

btw, I wasn't referring to the size of the crowd last night. I was referring to the quality.

I was cheering mostly for my team really really loud, you know come on Paulie, come on Alexei, come on etc etc. When the Rays got up there I would rarely say much, I think I might have thrown in one expletive later on as a funny joke but it was not insult after insult the entire game, just being really loud when my players did something or went to bat. I understand how it might be annoying, and I know the ladies next to me did not like it but that's really low ball in my opinion. You could have told us to keep quiet.
Were you the guys yelling about ''how do you like dem apples,damon?''

I could hear some guys yelling at several different Rays batters...they must have been close to the mike or something.

Was that you?

Surprised they would kick you out with no provocation...seems harsh.

Nopeee lol, that sounds kinda dumb, I never made a direct insult at a player- always just said you suck Rays or something like that.

Not going to lie, I felt almost betrayed- it's one thing if I was an idiot who knew nothing about the game, but it's my team ya know- I expected a little fair warning before being tossed.

CHISOXFAN13
04-09-2011, 02:32 PM
So am I in the wrong here or are they in the wrong here? I am trying to figure out if I don't at least deserve fair warning. Considering I do spend my money not theirs at this game.

Nice system though, I can't say they're dumb for implementing it.

Here's the thing. If a fan took advantage of Rise Above then you must have offended at least one person.

I have no idea what you said or if it was wrong, but I'm guessing security wasn't coming until someone called, so there must have been something to prompt that.

It's a Major League Baseball stadium. I don't think a warning is really neccessary if the behavior is bothering people.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2011, 02:33 PM
I was cheering mostly for my team really really loud, you know come on Paulie, come on Alexei, come on etc etc. When the Rays got up there I would rarely say much, I think I might have thrown in one expletive later on as a funny joke but it was not insult after insult the entire game, just being really loud when my players did something or went to bat. I understand how it might be annoying, and I know the ladies next to me did not like it but that's really low ball in my opinion. You could have told us to keep quiet.
If they didn't, then they should have stayed home and watched the game on TV. If you do not like people getting loud around you, you have ZERO business attending a sporting event.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2011, 02:38 PM
I was cheering mostly for my team really really loud, you know come on Paulie, come on Alexei, come on etc etc. When the Rays got up there I would rarely say much, I think I might have thrown in one expletive later on as a funny joke but it was not insult after insult the entire game, just being really loud when my players did something or went to bat. I understand how it might be annoying, and I know the ladies next to me did not like it but that's really low ball in my opinion. You could have told us to keep quiet.
So you were thrown out for showing the home team support and tamely heckling the other team? That's incredibly weak.

soltrain21
04-09-2011, 02:40 PM
If they didn't, then they should have stayed home and watched the game on TV. If you do not like people getting loud around you, you have ZERO business attending a sporting event.

Oh, please. He admitted they were drinking and yelled at least one cuss word. They are there to watch the game. Not listen to drunk people yell.

*Not saying you were wasted or anything, Guillen. But I can easily see someone being annoyed with the situation.

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Buying a ticket to a sporting event doesn't give anyone a license to act like an assbag.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2011, 02:47 PM
It doesn't sound like guillendesciple was acting like one. And big whoop if he was getting really loud. It's a sporting event, not a library.

kittle42
04-09-2011, 02:53 PM
It doesn't sound like guillendesciple was acting like one. And big whoop if he was getting really loud. It's a sporting event, not a library.

I think he's admitting to being loud and obnoxious. If that is the case, it doesn't really matter what the content of the statements he was making was.

soltrain21
04-09-2011, 02:55 PM
It doesn't sound like guillendesciple was acting like one. And big whoop if he was getting really loud. It's a sporting event, not a library.

He said he was being loud and obnoxious and that's HIS side of the story. If you admit to fault on your side of things than what was actually happening is probably worse.

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 02:58 PM
He said he was being loud and obnoxious and that's HIS side of the story. If you admit to fault on your side of things than what was actually happening is probably worse.

I thought it was interesting that he didn't mention the expletive in his original post.

Also, in my experience security kinda hovers around for a bit before taking action. Someone likely reported you via text message, and security hung around nearby to observe before swooping in.

kittle42
04-09-2011, 03:01 PM
I thought it was interesting that he didn't mention the expletive in his original post.

Also, in my experience security kinda hovers around for a bit before taking action. Someone likely reported you via text message, and security hung around nearby to observe before swooping in.

Very likely.

guillendisciple, can you please post the e-mail you write to Sox brass to complain about security doing their job? That would make for a good thread.

DickAllen72
04-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Here's the thing. If a fan took advantage of Rise Above then you must have offended at least one person.

I have no idea what you said or if it was wrong, but I'm guessing security wasn't coming until someone called, so there must have been something to prompt that.

It's a Major League Baseball stadium. I don't think a warning is really neccessary if the behavior is bothering people.
If guillensdisciple is giving an accurate description of what really happened, then it was absolutely wrong for Sox security to remove him from the stadium. At the very least the Sox should refund his money.

If people are offended by someone loudly cheering their home team and mildly heckling the other team, they probably should think twice about going to baseball games. And if the cheering/heckling was really over-the-top and annoying, at least guillensdisciple and friend should have been given a warning to either tone it down or leave before being kicked out.

There was mention of one cuss word. If it's true it was only once, again I believe security overreacted. However, if they were repeatedly cussing out loud, then I can understand why they may have been removed but again one would think a warning would be issued well before it got to the point where they had to be ejected.

Of course there is the possibility that the poster was so intoxicated he doesn't really remember how bad they were acting, or he could be lying, but I wasn't there so I can't judge. But going purely on his side of the story as presented here, the Sox owe him an apology and some money.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2011, 03:05 PM
I think he's admitting to being loud and obnoxious. If that is the case, it doesn't really matter what the content of the statements he was making was.
The content of his posts don't sound like he is admitting to being "obnoxious." I do not have any problem with what he posted. Fans shouldn't have to act like it's a library/tennis match when they're at a ballgame.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 03:10 PM
If they didn't, then they should have stayed home and watched the game on TV. If you do not like people getting loud around you, you have ZERO business attending a sporting event.

So you were thrown out for showing the home team support and tamely heckling the other team? That's incredibly weak.

I was being loud in supporting, and definitely threw in a cuss word in relation to the rays but it was never confrontational more along the lines of you ****ing suck tampa!!

I ono, I just feel I needed a warning.
Oh, please. He admitted they were drinking and yelled at least one cuss word. They are there to watch the game. Not listen to drunk people yell.

*Not saying you were wasted or anything, Guillen. But I can easily see someone being annoyed with the situation.

I understand that, but don't you think it's a little nicer and wiser to just tell the person to quiet down. I spent money on the game too, and you should at least respect that.
Buying a ticket to a sporting event doesn't give anyone a license to act like an assbag.


Agreed 100 percent, and I don't think cheering loudly for your team and ribbing a few insults at an opposing team qualifies.

soltrain21
04-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I understand that, but don't you think it's a little nicer and wiser to just tell the person to quiet down. I spent money on the game too, and you should at least respect that.


I would never tell someone to quiet down to their face. They are drinking at a ball game? No thanks, I'd rather not have a fist fight start.

Edit - And I feel I should clarify. I know you wouldn't start throwing punches if someone told you to quiet down. But, to those strangers, they have no idea. And I've seen far too many fights at the ballpark because someone was told to quiet down.

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I was being loud in supporting, and definitely threw in a cuss word in relation to the rays but it was never confrontational more along the lines of you ****ing suck tampa!!

And there you go. Sorry dude...dropping F-bombs doesn't qualify as supporting your team.

Nothing else to see here...

DickAllen72
04-09-2011, 03:16 PM
And there you go. Sorry dude...dropping F-bombs doesn't qualify as supporting your team.

Nothing else to see here...
If they were continuously dropping f-bombs, I agree. But if just one slipped out, I think a warning should have sufficed.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 03:17 PM
If guillensdisciple is giving an accurate description of what really happened, then it was absolutely wrong for Sox security to remove him from the stadium. At the very least the Sox should refund his money.

If people are offended by someone loudly cheering their home team and mildly heckling the other team, they probably should think twice about going to baseball games. And if the cheering/heckling was really over-the-top and annoying, at least guillensdisciple and friend should have been given a warning to either tone it down or leave before being kicked out.

There was mention of one cuss word. If it's true it was only once, again I believe security overreacted. However, if they were repeatedly cussing out loud, then I can understand why they may have been removed but again one would think a warning would be issued well before it got to the point where they had to be ejected.

Of course there is the possibility that the poster was so intoxicated he doesn't really remember how bad they were acting, or he could be lying, but I wasn't there so I can't judge. But going purely on his side of the story as presented here, the Sox owe him an apology and some money.

I definitely was at a level of influence, but I know I was not belligerent considering I spent the time talking to security and calming my idiot friend down in front of them trying to assess the situation and ask if I could have proper reasoning or fair warning before getting kicked out. They gave me nothing and just dragged us out.

Listen, and this goes to everyone. The ladies could have told us to quiet down and I would have shut my mouth and apologized. Maybe there are people who are idiots and *******s but the fact remains that the ladies should have approached that better, and security could have approached that better. Obviously, you guys should not just go out there and believe my side because I might be sugar coating the hell out of this, but I know that I got loudest when my players were up to bat and I wanted to see some runs and I only got dirty with words as a joke to Tampa like I mentioned above.

As you posted though, even with the loudness and all of that, where is the warning. Why am I being grabbed out, having my ticket taken, and being kicked out? I was not threatening, not confrontational- it was a dry heave. Like a big **** you to me as a fan of my team. I never thought this would happen at a sox game.

DickAllen72
04-09-2011, 03:18 PM
I would never tell someone to quiet down to their face. They are drinking at a ball game? No thanks, I'd rather not have a fist fight start.

Edit - And I feel I should clarify. I know you wouldn't start throwing punches if someone told you to quiet down. But, to those strangers, they have no idea. And I've seen far too many fights at the ballpark because someone was told to quiet down.
I agree with this. But security should be able to tell someone to quiet down before resorting to ejecting them from the park for being "too loud."

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 03:20 PM
And there you go. Sorry dude...dropping F-bombs doesn't qualify as supporting your team.

Nothing else to see here...

Are you serious guy? I understand it's rude, but come on man, kicking me out without warning and taking my money like that- you can't be serious. People deserve to be given a shot before that. Unless there is prior warning coming to the game that states my rights I don't see why a reasonable person can't say, hey please quiet down or we will escort you off the premises.

Maybe you're right- I would never want to disrespect the ladies next to me or anyone for that matter. If that's how it's handled then so be it, I've learned my lesson

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 03:27 PM
If they were continuously dropping f-bombs, I agree. But if just one slipped out, I think a warning should have sufficed.

I definitely was at a level of influence, but I know I was not belligerent considering I spent the time talking to security and calming my idiot friend down in front of them trying to assess the situation and ask if I could have proper reasoning or fair warning before getting kicked out. They gave me nothing and just dragged us out.

Are we really at a point in time where people need warnings and reminders to be polite and respectable in public settings? I have absolutely no problem with a well-placed F-bomb, but when you're in a family environment like a baseball game, it shouldn't be too tough to use common sense.

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Are you serious guy? I understand it's rude, but come on man, kicking me out without warning and taking my money like that- you can't be serious. People deserve to be given a shot before that. Unless there is prior warning coming to the game that states my rights I don't see why a reasonable person can't say, hey please quiet down or we will escort you off the premises.

Maybe you're right- I would never want to disrespect the ladies next to me or anyone for that matter. If that's how it's handled then so be it, I've learned my lesson

I am serious. The White Sox don't owe you jack **** once you enter the ballpark. And as I mentioned earlier, security doesn't just haphazardly throw people out. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that they observed your group for awhile before they determined that an ejection from the park was warranted.

I've reported troublemakers to security a handful of times, but security always hangs out nearby to observe the accused. If they don't act like jackasses in their presence, security moves on and leaves them alone.

I'm sorry you saw an early exit last night, but as the thread continues more details of your group's behavior seems to be shared.

It's one thing to cheer on your team, but it's an entirely different story once someone's behavior becomes distracting and offensive to those around you.

KMcMahon817
04-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Meh. Drunk and obnoxious fans are annoying, but if they aren't completely obliterated they should at least get a warning.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2011, 03:50 PM
I am serious. The White Sox don't owe you jack **** once you enter the ballpark. And as I mentioned earlier, security doesn't just haphazardly throw people out. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that they observed your group for awhile before they determined that an ejection from the park was warranted.

I've reported troublemakers to security a handful of times, but security always hangs out nearby to observe the accused. If they don't act like jackasses in their presence, security moves on and leaves them alone.

I'm sorry you saw an early exit last night, but as the thread continues more details of your group's behavior seems to be shared.

It's one thing to cheer on your team, but it's an entirely different story once someone's behavior becomes distracting and offensive to those around you.

Got it, but I can only wonder how many fans the White Sox kick out every game if this is the case. Again, does not make sense without warning. No need to observe. Walk up to a person, say that you're being loud and then tell them next offense is your dismissal. easy right, both sides are happy, nobody feels mistreated. That's how a rational human being would handle a situation. This is not a dictatorship where the White Sox can kill a human being just because they feel slighted. Get the **** out of here man, people deserve a chance. YOu're not there to kill people, you're there to watch a baseball game and have fun with it.

Unless you give me a blatant warning as I enter the ball park stating that loud behavior will not be tolerated at any point, I will believe that I can scream for my team as loud as I want and cheer against another team as loud as I want too. Not written in paper, does not exist. Contracts are contracts.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2011, 03:53 PM
McMahon:

Actually I think it's been twice in the past week but feel free to keep exaggerating.

And I agree with the sentiment expressed by Double, "he sucks."

Baseball's a funny game though maybe he can keep them in the game at least and give them a reasonable shot...we'll see.

Lip

GoGoCrede
04-09-2011, 04:14 PM
Got it, but I can only wonder how many fans the White Sox kick out every game if this is the case. Again, does not make sense without warning. No need to observe. Walk up to a person, say that you're being loud and then tell them next offense is your dismissal. easy right, both sides are happy, nobody feels mistreated. That's how a rational human being would handle a situation. This is not a dictatorship where the White Sox can kill a human being just because they feel slighted. Get the **** out of here man, people deserve a chance. YOu're not there to kill people, you're there to watch a baseball game and have fun with it.

Unless you give me a blatant warning as I enter the ball park stating that loud behavior will not be tolerated at any point, I will believe that I can scream for my team as loud as I want and cheer against another team as loud as I want too. Not written in paper, does not exist. Contracts are contracts.


Were your comments racist, homophobic, etc. in any way? Not just curse words? If so, there's your answer.

Boondock Saint
04-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Got it, but I can only wonder how many fans the White Sox kick out every game if this is the case. Again, does not make sense without warning. No need to observe. Walk up to a person, say that you're being loud and then tell them next offense is your dismissal. easy right, both sides are happy, nobody feels mistreated. That's how a rational human being would handle a situation. This is not a dictatorship where the White Sox can kill a human being just because they feel slighted. Get the **** out of here man, people deserve a chance. YOu're not there to kill people, you're there to watch a baseball game and have fun with it.

Unless you give me a blatant warning as I enter the ball park stating that loud behavior will not be tolerated at any point, I will believe that I can scream for my team as loud as I want and cheer against another team as loud as I want too. Not written in paper, does not exist. Contracts are contracts.

Not trying to take sides here, but when you buy tickets to a Sox game, you agree that you understand the rules put forth by the Sox and MLB regarding fan conduct, as well as other things. That's the only "warning" that anyone is entitled to.

Hitmen77
04-09-2011, 04:48 PM
About as bad a loss as you can possible have especially with Humber pitching Saturday. The Sox were this close to starting to build up some cushion (i.e. 5-2) and get off to the good start the organization was calling for.

I know the outrage directed towards Thornton and I understand it, after all this is the second game already this season the Sox bullpen blew and lost a game in the 7th inning or later BUT if the Sox simply catch the damn baseball he's not put in this situation.

I agree with JB, the Rays were begging to get beat again and the Sox let them off the hook.

Already we've seen the Sox bunt into a triple play, have outfielders drop catchable balls, seen a base runner get picked off at 2nd, seen a runner thrown out at 3rd trying to stretch a hit with the play right in front of him, seen A.J. botch a pick off and now this.

Folks the Sox fundamentals are about as bad as I've ever seen them since Ozzie became manager. He continues to talk about working on it in spring training and nothing seems to change.

Lip

He's been talking about stressing fundamentals and yet, year after year, this is a problem with the Sox.

Talk means nothing. I'd like to know when the Sox are actually going to become good at fundamentals. If Ozzie and his staff have indeed making this a priority each spring, it's obviously not working.

kittle42
04-09-2011, 04:51 PM
Unless you give me a blatant warning as I enter the ball park stating that loud behavior will not be tolerated at any point, I will believe that I can scream for my team as loud as I want and cheer against another team as loud as I want too. Not written in paper, does not exist. Contracts are contracts.

Read the back of your ticket:

"This ticket is a revocable license, and the license granted herein may be terminated upon tender by CWS of the face value of this ticket to the holder or by breach of: (a) the preceding restrictions on the use of tickets or (b) the U.S. Cellular Field rules and regulations."

So, let's take a look at those rules and regulations, shall we?

http://mlb.mlb.com/cws/ballpark/groundrules.jsp

PLEASE BE AWARE:

Guests holding tickets for the Upper Level must remain in the Upper Level.
Bottles, cans, hard-sided coolers or other liquid containers may not be brought into the park.
U.S. Cellular Field will be free from foul/abusive language or obscene gestures by guests.
Intervention with an impaired or intoxicated guest will be handled in a prompt and safe manner.
Our guests' experiences will not be disrupted by unruly actions or behavior of others, including unauthorized persons entering the playing field.
Guests will show their tickets when requested and sit only in their ticketed seats.

There's your "contract." It is written on paper, and, by your logic, therefore exists. They determined you violated it. You lose your privilege to be at the game. End of story.

hi im skot
04-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Read the back of your ticket:

"This ticket is a revocable license, and the license granted herein may be terminated upon tender by CWS of the face value of this ticket to the holder or by breach of: (a) the preceding restrictions on the use of tickets or (b) the U.S. Cellular Field rules and regulations."

So, let's take a look at those rules and regulations, shall we?

http://mlb.mlb.com/cws/ballpark/groundrules.jsp

PLEASE BE AWARE:

Guests holding tickets for the Upper Level must remain in the Upper Level.
Bottles, cans, hard-sided coolers or other liquid containers may not be brought into the park.
U.S. Cellular Field will be free from foul/abusive language or obscene gestures by guests.
Intervention with an impaired or intoxicated guest will be handled in a prompt and safe manner.
Our guests' experiences will not be disrupted by unruly actions or behavior of others, including unauthorized persons entering the playing field.
Guests will show their tickets when requested and sit only in their ticketed seats.

There's your "contract." It is written on paper, and, by your logic, therefore exists. They determined you violated it. You lose your privilege to be at the game. End of story.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ebfkn9.jpg

Lip Man 1
04-09-2011, 07:41 PM
Hitmen:

I always wondered and have said so including in interviews if baseball players today are simply "baseball stupid" when it comes to executing the fundamentals or if the issue is that Ozzie and his staff simply can't teach them in a way to get them to understand and execute.

I've never gotten an answer to this including from the regular beat writers so I just don't know.

Lip

Hitmen77
04-09-2011, 10:34 PM
Buying a ticket to a sporting event doesn't give anyone a license to act like an assbag.

http://sanseverything.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/homersimpson.jpg
Homer: Marge, this ticket doesn't just give me a seat. It also gives me the right--no, the duty--to make a complete ass of myself.
Marge: Mmmph.
:wink:


But Simpsons joke aside, I totally agree with your comment.