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Fenway
04-05-2011, 01:52 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0405-cubs-diamondbacks-chicago20110404,0,7258143.story

Hitmen77
04-05-2011, 02:48 AM
26,000 attendance and, according to the article, about half that amount actually there.

People have short memories and forget that the Cubs, while drawing well, didn't see their attendance skyrocket until they went deep into the playoffs in 2003. It hasn't always been all sellouts no matter what all the time forever like people seem to think. This article supports this by saying this was the lowest turnout since 2002 - when they had 20,000 for a late-season game.

Since 2003, they've been able to string fans along with being close to contention or being able to hype up being in contention. The worst season in this time was 2006, and TribCo. quickly threw money huge contracts to buy themselves back into contention in the short term at the cost of being saddled with bad contracts down the road (now).

In other low attendance news, the Indians - who once boasted 455 consecutive sellouts - drew 9800 and 8700 on Sat and Sunday's games.:o:

gobears1987
04-05-2011, 05:33 AM
In other low attendance news, the Indians - who once boasted 455 consecutive sellouts - drew 9800 and 8700 on Sat and Sunday's games.:o:
http://www.movievillains.com/images/phelps.jpg

The lease says we have the right to move if our attendance falls below 800,000 for the year.

gobears1987
04-05-2011, 06:15 AM
Aside from the fact the team is miserable, I think the fact that TribCo. isn't selling the Wrigley Field experience any more is part of the issue for the Cubs. When people read a story on Wrigley Field today, the article is about how the stadium is in desperate need of repairs and Ricketts can't afford them.

DrCrawdad
04-05-2011, 07:49 AM
Attendance/popularity has been such central part of Cubdumb, what will they say if they don't have that any longer? It had so deeply penetrated their thinking that Cubbie Clowns couldn't see how far they'd gone when their comments were, "Yeah, the Sox won the World Series, but look at the TV ratings..."

dwitt76
04-05-2011, 08:07 AM
The recent success of the Bears, Hawks, and Bulls doesn't help. Looks like cub fans are not going to put up with the losing anymore.

Bob Roarman
04-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Attendance/popularity has been such central part of Cubdumb, what will they say if they don't have that any longer? It had so deeply penetrated their thinking that Cubbie Clowns couldn't see how far they'd gone when their comments were, "Yeah, the Sox won the World Series, but look at the TV ratings..."

Here's a better question: What will we say?

DrCrawdad
04-05-2011, 08:43 AM
Here's a better question: What will we say?

Answer your own question.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-05-2011, 08:45 AM
I guess I don't understand why we choose to point out the attendance issue on the North Side when attendance is really a taboo subject, especially when it comes to sparsely attended games for the Sox in the same time of the year or inclement weather.

Red Barchetta
04-05-2011, 08:53 AM
Aside from the fact the team is miserable, I think the fact that TribCo. isn't selling the Wrigley Field experience any more is part of the issue for the Cubs. When people read a story on Wrigley Field today, the article is about how the stadium is in desperate need of repairs and Ricketts can't afford them.

During the Tribune era, their stealth marketing efforts sold the "Wrigley Field Experience" on a daily basis. It was a constant, in your face, marketing campaign that resulted in sell out crowds and tourists eager to experience Wrigely Field as the "Shrine" of all things baseball regardless of actual on-field product.

The Cubs won enough during that time to keep the interest and as bad as 2003 was for many Cub fans, I think 2008 was even worse because after having the best record in the NL, many fans thought that was the year. To see them get swept by the Wild Card Dodgers and all their high-priced talent (Soriano comes to mind) fail to show up in the playoffs was too much to handle.

Follow that with the change in ownership and now Rickett's crying that he doesn't have enough money to take care of the Shrine, I'm expecting mid-70s era attendance figures.

Now is a great time for the SOX to reclaim the city!

ewokpelts
04-05-2011, 08:58 AM
During the Tribune era, their stealth marketing efforts sold the "Wrigley Field Experience" on a daily basis. It was a constant, in your face, marketing campaign that resulted in sell out crowds and tourists eager to experience Wrigely Field as the "Shrine" of all things baseball regardless of actual on-field product.

The Cubs won enough during that time to keep the interest and as bad as 2003 was for many Cub fans, I think 2008 was even worse because after having the best record in the NL, many fans thought that was the year. To see them get swept by the Wild Card Dodgers and all their high-priced talent (Soriano comes to mind) fail to show up in the playoffs was too much to handle.

Follow that with the change in ownership and now Rickett's crying that he doesn't have enough money to take care of the Shrine, I'm expecting mid-70s era attendance figures.

Now is a great time for the SOX to reclaim the city!The Brewers were the 2008 NL Wild Card. Dodgers won the west.

cws05champ
04-05-2011, 09:07 AM
During the Tribune era, their stealth marketing efforts sold the "Wrigley Field Experience" on a daily basis. It was a constant, in your face, marketing campaign that resulted in sell out crowds and tourists eager to experience Wrigely Field as the "Shrine" of all things baseball regardless of actual on-field product.

The Cubs won enough during that time to keep the interest and as bad as 2003 was for many Cub fans, I think 2008 was even worse because after having the best record in the NL, many fans thought that was the year. To see them get swept by the Wild Card Dodgers and all their high-priced talent (Soriano comes to mind) fail to show up in the playoffs was too much to handle.

Follow that with the change in ownership and now Rickett's crying that he doesn't have enough money to take care of the Shrine, I'm expecting mid-70s era attendance figures.

Now is a great time for the SOX to reclaim the city!
Lets's not get too out of hand here. It's early April with bad weather and the Pirates and Dbacks out there as opponents. I do think they'll have lower attendence again this year but it's early in the season.

WizardsofOzzie
04-05-2011, 09:07 AM
I guess I don't understand why we choose to point out the attendance issue on the North Side when attendance is really a taboo subject, especially when it comes to sparsely attended games for the Sox in the same time of the year or inclement weather.

Because the Cubs fans always choose to throw attendance into an argument like it's a trump card. "Well yeah the Sox won the WS but nobody showed up to watch it, haha" It will be interesting to see how they react to suddenly not having their attendance trophy to fall back on

Red Barchetta
04-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Lets's not get too out of hand here. It's early April with bad weather and the Pirates and Dbacks out there as opponents. I do think they'll have lower attendence again this year but it's early in the season.

I don't think it will happen this year, however I can see a steady decline if Rickett's doesn't right the ship. He'd better market the "experience" if he can't market a winning team.

Yep, Dodgers were the division winners. I thought they had the WC winner due to their record, however fogot the Brewers made it.

DrCrawdad
04-05-2011, 09:25 AM
I guess I don't understand why we choose to point out the attendance issue on the North Side when attendance is really a taboo subject, especially when it comes to sparsely attended games for the Sox in the same time of the year or inclement weather.

Attendance is not an issue to me. I only care about how it affects the play of the team on the field, win or lose. I don't really care if the Cubbies draw 1 or 100 million. The point is that attendance/popularity has been such a rallying cry of Cubbie Clowns and so often rubbed in our faces. Honest to god, as I said even though I might not care about attendance/popularity I get sick of hearing about it from Cubbie Clowns. And it's funny to me to see the central bragging point of Cubbie Clowns erode and to see the panic on their side.

I'm a Sox fan. I will be whether their I'm the only one or one of many. I don't draw any satisfaction nor a check from increases in Sox popularity. I want the Sox to win and if increases in Sox popularity help in that drive, fine.

bluedemon45
04-05-2011, 09:38 AM
One team has the expectations to fail...one team has the expectations to succeed. If both teams follow through with there expectations I would expect a big shift in attendance, and media perception.

Cangelosi CF
04-05-2011, 09:46 AM
on a related note, I wonder how much money Ricketts will really put into upgrading the park, with the amount of debt the family took on to purchase the club. if attendance continues to flatline (and I still think the Coob will draw well in the summer, even if the team sucks) the family can use that as an excuse to not upgrade.

TheOldRoman
04-05-2011, 09:53 AM
on a related note, I wonder how much money Ricketts will really put into upgrading the park, with the amount of debt the family took on to purchase the club. if attendance continues to flatline (and I still think the Coob will draw well in the summer, even if the team sucks) the family can use that as an excuse to not upgrade.All indications so far are that Ricketts is a buffoon who is in way over his head. He paid way too much money for a team which had already maxed out revenue. His family and Cub fans will rue the day he bought the team.

PatK
04-05-2011, 10:48 AM
People have short memories and forget that the Cubs, while drawing well, didn't see their attendance skyrocket until they went deep into the playoffs in 2003. It hasn't always been all sellouts no matter what all the time forever like people seem to think. This article supports this by saying this was the lowest turnout since 2002 - when they had 20,000 for a late-season game.



Attendance went crazy after the 1998 season, with Sammy and McGuire chasing down Maris, Kerry Wood's rookie year, and the Cubs fighting for a playoff spot.

Back then I lived by Wrigley and up until that point, you could walk up to the box office at game time and get great seats. That's when it ended.

In 1999, they set their attendance record despite having their worst record in 20 years.

AZChiSoxFan
04-05-2011, 11:55 AM
The Brewers were the 2008 NL Wild Card. Dodgers won the west.

True, but the larger point still stands. IIRC, that Dodger team won about 84 games during the regular season. the cubs were prohibitive favorites to win that series.

asindc
04-05-2011, 12:27 PM
I guess I don't understand why we choose to point out the attendance issue on the North Side when attendance is really a taboo subject, especially when it comes to sparsely attended games for the Sox in the same time of the year or inclement weather.

Because the Cubs fans always choose to throw attendance into an argument like it's a trump card. "Well yeah the Sox won the WS but nobody showed up to watch it, haha" It will be interesting to see how they react to suddenly not having their attendance trophy to fall back on

Exactly. It's not as if we Sox fans shuffled this deck and dealt these cards. This is a Cubs fans' issue. We are only responding to it.

hawkjt
04-05-2011, 12:45 PM
I think the lingering recession is hitting most teams this year.
As for the Cubs, I think this shows that the ''irrational exuberance'' period is coming to an end,and the attendance will track with the weather again,like in the pre-sammy period. Wrigley is about the coldest place on earth in April and May with that wind off the lake,so fans are resisting paying big dollars to sit thru the cold and losing.

When June comes,it will be packed again,as the frat boys and sorority gals will return for the mating ritual.

I agree that Ricketts bought high,and is already under water on this purchase...if he holds on for the long haul, probably be ok...but he chose a bad time to buy and try to squeeze taxpayers to fix his aging shrine.

soltrain21
04-05-2011, 01:52 PM
My friend just posted a picture on Facebook. 30 minutes before game time and the place is super empty again.

kittle42
04-05-2011, 01:57 PM
My friend even had trouble getting rid of pretty decent tickets for opening day and Saturday. I went to the game Saturday with a friend and sat about 25 rows behind home plate for $10 each.

But let's curb our enthusiasm until we see the crowds we're drawing after the TB series. :)

gobears1987
04-05-2011, 01:58 PM
I agree that Ricketts bought high,and is already under water on this purchase...if he holds on for the long haul, probably be ok...but he chose a bad time to buy and try to squeeze taxpayers to fix his aging shrine.

It depends on how the team does financially. He had to finance a lot to buy the team. He can't afford seasons of financial loss.

DumpJerry
04-05-2011, 03:30 PM
While they may not want to watch their team at The Urinal, my tickets for the Wednesday Sox/Cub game at Comiskey sold for $130.00 per ticket today on Stubhub ($48.00 face). The other two games sold for the same price in February.

TDog
04-05-2011, 07:00 PM
Attendance/popularity has been such central part of Cubdumb, what will they say if they don't have that any longer? It had so deeply penetrated their thinking that Cubbie Clowns couldn't see how far they'd gone when their comments were, "Yeah, the Sox won the World Series, but look at the TV ratings..."

That has pretty much been true since I started following baseball at the end of the '60s. It was true in 1969 when the Cubs were running away from the NL East and even into their epic collapse when they set a franchise record by drawing 1.6 million. There were a few years when the Sox outdrew the Cubs since then, of course, but even in the 1970s, I recall Cubs fans being concerned with opening-day attendance after hearing if their team won or lost.

Even some Sox fans make an issue out of attendance when attendance is good.

Hitmen77
04-06-2011, 12:39 AM
Attendance went crazy after the 1998 season, with Sammy and McGuire chasing down Maris, Kerry Wood's rookie year, and the Cubs fighting for a playoff spot.

Back then I lived by Wrigley and up until that point, you could walk up to the box office at game time and get great seats. That's when it ended.

In 1999, they set their attendance record despite having their worst record in 20 years.

I agree about '98, but I see those as 2 separate bumps in Cubs attendance. Like you said, before '98 tickets were easier to come by. They drew 2.1 million in 1997, the 20 strikeout game drew 15,000 in May 1998, etc. Then from '98 to '03 it was the Sammy Sosa show and he was THE huge draw. In 1999 they set that attendance record thanks to Sosa hitting 66 HRs the year before and the hype that the untainted Sosa-McGuire chase created. They were also coming off the '98 playoff berth at the time.

But still, they were averaging about 2.6 million between '98 and '02. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml It wasn't until 2003 that they bumped up to the current 3 million range where they've stayed ever since. It was the '03 playoff run that started this current "the Cubs draw 39,000 ever single game and 3 million a year every year" era and people act like this has been going on forever. In '04 and '05 the Trib was able to hype the Cubs as contenders to keep this going. There was disgruntlement (and some empty seats) in 2006 after the Sox won it all and the Cubs lost over 90 games that following year, but the Trib cracked open the checkbook to buy themselves back into contention (and into the playoffs) in '07 and '08 and stop any fan erosion from taking hold.

Plus, it's still a tough economy out there. This has affected many teams at the gate and that's impacting the Cubs too.

ewokpelts
04-06-2011, 10:50 AM
i bought EIGHT tickets for a combined cost of $20(on stubhub and ebay). And I got eight castro bobbleheads. The cubs were still giving out the 10,000 bobble 30 minutes until first pitch. and scalpers had fistfulls of tickets to sell.

it's pretty bad in wrigleyville right now.

and dont forget that the unused tickets hurt ricketts more than unsold tickets. since they sold 27k in tickets, they had to make sure they had enough workers to handle that # of fans. when 12-13 k show up that day, you have lots of sunk costs into excess workers.

GoSox2K3
04-06-2011, 10:59 AM
I guess I don't understand why we choose to point out the attendance issue on the North Side when attendance is really a taboo subject, especially when it comes to sparsely attended games for the Sox in the same time of the year or inclement weather.

Because Cubs fans have spent years wrapping themselves around the "attendance" flag and constantly throw it in Sox fans faces and, in some cases, make it sound like it's more important than wins.

Yes, the Sox have their share of low attendance games every year, but we don't go shooting our mouths off about how we're the only team that matters in Chicago (even when the other teams wins the World ****ing Series!) all because of attendance.

Oh, and to clarify, "attendance" itself is not a "taboo subject". What's taboo is griping on this site about bad attendance at Sox games.

doublem23
04-06-2011, 11:04 AM
Oh, and to clarify, "attendance" itself is not a "taboo subject". What's taboo is griping on this site about bad attendance at Sox games.

Yeah, the reason attendance threads had to be culled is because 1/2 of them ended up with people berating others saying, IF YOU DON'T GO TO THE GAMES, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TEAM.

Obviously, this site is full of passionate fans, and everyone supports the team as much as they are capable of. It's not a big deal to talk about attendance, it's only a problem when accusations of disinterest come in.

DrCrawdad
04-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Because Cubs fans have spent years wrapping themselves around the "attendance" flag and constantly throw it in Sox fans faces and, in some cases, make it sound like it's more important than wins.

Yes, the Sox have their share of low attendance games every year, but we don't go shooting our mouths off about how we're the only team that matters in Chicago (even when the other teams wins the World ****ing Series!) all because of attendance.

Oh, and to clarify, "attendance" itself is not a "taboo subject". What's taboo is griping on this site about bad attendance at Sox games.

Amen brother!

ewokpelts
04-06-2011, 11:40 AM
Yeah, the reason attendance threads had to be culled is because 1/2 of them ended up with people berating others saying, IF YOU DON'T GO TO THE GAMES, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TEAM.

Obviously, this site is full of passionate fans, and everyone supports the team as much as they are capable of. It's not a big deal to talk about attendance, it's only a problem when accusations of disinterest come in.I think in this economy and with ticket prices as they are, anyone who goes to ANY game that's not OD/cubs/red sox/yankees is "all in".

od and the big games always do well. it's the "royals on a tuesday in april" type of games that the SOX need to promote harder. NOT for the fans to berate other fans for not being "fan enough" since they didnt go.

doublem23
04-06-2011, 11:52 AM
I think in this economy and with ticket prices as they are, anyone who goes to ANY game that's not OD/cubs/red sox/yankees is "all in".

od and the big games always do well. it's the "royals on a tuesday in april" type of games that the SOX need to promote harder. NOT for the fans to berate other fans for not being "fan enough" since they didnt go.

Right, exactly why we had to kill attendance threads for a while. Things have gotten a bit better in the last few years, people have acted more maturely and respectfully towards one another on the topic, so we can discuss it again, but back a few years ago, all it did was cause fights.

jdm2662
04-06-2011, 11:55 AM
I agree about '98, but I see those as 2 separate bumps in Cubs attendance. Like you said, before '98 tickets were easier to come by. They drew 2.1 million in 1997, the 20 strikeout game drew 15,000 in May 1998, etc. Then from '98 to '03 it was the Sammy Sosa show and he was THE huge draw. In 1999 they set that attendance record thanks to Sosa hitting 66 HRs the year before and the hype that the untainted Sosa-McGuire chase created. They were also coming off the '98 playoff berth at the time.

But still, they were averaging about 2.6 million between '98 and '02. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml It wasn't until 2003 that they bumped up to the current 3 million range where they've stayed ever since. It was the '03 playoff run that started this current "the Cubs draw 39,000 ever single game and 3 million a year every year" era and people act like this has been going on forever. In '04 and '05 the Trib was able to hype the Cubs as contenders to keep this going. There was disgruntlement (and some empty seats) in 2006 after the Sox won it all and the Cubs lost over 90 games that following year, but the Trib cracked open the checkbook to buy themselves back into contention (and into the playoffs) in '07 and '08 and stop any fan erosion from taking hold.

Plus, it's still a tough economy out there. This has affected many teams at the gate and that's impacting the Cubs too.


This fact always gets lost in the shuffle. Yes, the Cubs always did well at the gate during the summer months. However, day games in April wasn't exactly a tough ticket to get. Kids are still in school, people are at work, and being by the lakefront during this time is quite miserable. The fanbase is very pissed off, and they aren't going to waste their time right now.

C-Dawg
04-06-2011, 12:31 PM
It was the '03 playoff run that started this current "the Cubs draw 39,000 ever single game and 3 million a year every year" era and people act like this has been going on forever.

We used to go the the Confines once a year to see the Reds (we're originally from Cincinnati). Just for fun, I looked up a couple of the games we went to on baseball reference.com. One game in 1977, a 16-15 slugfest, drew 32,000 fans. Another game - a 1980 doubleheader of which I have the filled-out scorecard here in my office - drew 22,000. The previous day's game - a Friday - drew only 5300. Betcha they don't even open the upper deck for those 5300.

DumpJerry
04-06-2011, 01:09 PM
Right, exactly why we had to kill attendance threads for a while. Things have gotten a bit better in the last few years, people have acted more maturely and respectfully towards one another on the topic, so we can discuss it again, but back a few years ago, all it did was cause fights.
Not to mention everyone had a Ph.D in Marketing and berated all the other Marketing Ph.Ds for their "unrealistic" ideas of why tickets weren't selling.

veeter
04-06-2011, 01:41 PM
We used to go the the Confines once a year to see the Reds (we're originally from Cincinnati). Just for fun, I looked up a couple of the games we went to on baseball reference.com. One game in 1977, a 16-15 slugfest, drew 32,000 fans. Another game - a 1980 doubleheader of which I have the filled-out scorecard here in my office - drew 22,000. The previous day's game - a Friday - drew only 5300. Betcha they don't even open the upper deck for those 5300.I love this info. Harry Caray started the turn around on cub attendance. They built up the neighborhood, then 1998 happened, things exploded. People under age thirty don't realize the cubs struggled like everyone else for fans, back in the day.

doublem23
04-06-2011, 01:52 PM
Not to mention everyone had a Ph.D in Marketing and berated all the other Marketing Ph.Ds for their "unrealistic" ideas of why tickets weren't selling.

I don't see how that's different from just about every other thread.

ewokpelts
04-06-2011, 03:11 PM
This fact always gets lost in the shuffle. Yes, the Cubs always did well at the gate during the summer months. However, day games in April wasn't exactly a tough ticket to get. Kids are still in school, people are at work, and being by the lakefront during this time is quite miserable. The fanbase is very pissed off, and they aren't going to waste their time right now.one thing the cubs still do well, is sell those april may day games CHEAP for schools. i think they're still $2 a ticket(before the tax) for all levels of school, even colleges.

I know the sox typically have night games in april may, but the few day games only offer discounts up to 50%.