PDA

View Full Version : Here's trouble... Greg Walker


kufram
04-03-2011, 02:41 AM
Does Greg Walker have anything whatsoever to do with the tremendous hitting to start this season?

doublem23
04-03-2011, 04:15 AM
Does Greg Walker have anything whatsoever to do with the tremendous hitting to start this season?

Depends on what you think of hitting coaches. Some of the older guys like Konerko and Dunn are intelligent, successful baseball players who probably don't need a lot of coaching, but the early returns on Beckham, Quentin, and even Morel have been pretty promising so hopefully they keep it up, although, you can probably cherry pick 2 really good games for even bad teams when they play bad opponents. Its still a little early to make any definitive statements about the Sox, maybe other than, at their very best, this team is a juggernaut.

I still would have fired Walker years ago, but hey, maybe his techniques just click with this cast of characters for some reason. As long as he's around I hope he continues to succeed and make me look like a dumbass.

kufram
04-03-2011, 06:13 AM
Depends on what you think of hitting coaches. Some of the older guys like Konerko and Dunn are intelligent, successful baseball players who probably don't need a lot of coaching, but the early returns on Beckham, Quentin, and even Morel have been pretty promising so hopefully they keep it up, although, you can probably cherry pick 2 really good games for even bad teams when they play bad opponents. Its still a little early to make any definitive statements about the Sox, maybe other than, at their very best, this team is a juggernaut.

I still would have fired Walker years ago, but hey, maybe his techniques just click with this cast of characters for some reason. As long as he's around I hope he continues to succeed and make me look like a dumbass.


I think Greg Walker probably has exactly as much influence on what happens during games when the hitters are not performing as he has when they are banging. I'm not invested in Walker as a coach, although I do think he weathers very harsh criticism with dignity, but if he does get blamed for poor performances then he should get credit for good performances.

In my opinion a hitting coach at major league level is more about making it as easy as possible for professional players to do their job than it is about actually affecting the performances. Of course they CAN make a difference, especially with young or flawed swingers or slumping hitters.

I'm sure enjoying the juggernaut at the moment. It's early, sure, but more fun right now than last year at this point, eh?

DumpJerry
04-03-2011, 07:44 AM
Does Greg Walker have anything whatsoever to do with the tremendous hitting to start this season?
The Sox should fire him and go without a hitting coach for a month and see if anything changes.

gobears1987
04-03-2011, 08:04 AM
It pissed me off that people were using Greg Walker as their whipping boy. I hope the Sox give him an extension just to shove it in their faces. I've never heard of a single ex-Sox player who said that Walker hurt their game. If the players don't perform, it is the fault of the players. Managers and coaches aren't the ones taking at bats and throwing the pitches.

DumpJerry
04-03-2011, 08:24 AM
I'm trying to figure out the thread title. What trouble is brewing?

kufram
04-03-2011, 08:41 AM
When the hitters are poor Walker's name is a lot less then mud here. The vitriol is endless. I thought I might be in for some of it. I'm not in a position to know but I imagine NO hitting coach would make some kind of difference. Otherwise why would every team pay for one? Like I said before, maybe his real value is in making it easier for hitters to do their job. The hitters still have to do it, though.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 08:50 AM
It pissed me off that people were using Greg Walker as their whipping boy. I hope the Sox give him an extension just to shove it in their faces. I've never heard of a single ex-Sox player who said that Walker hurt their game. If the players don't perform, it is the fault of the players. Managers and coaches aren't the ones taking at bats and throwing the pitches.
Except for Nick Swisher who refused to work with Walker because his father was his hitting coach, what hitter since Walker left became a much better hitter elsewhere?

People like to put blame somewhere and a hitting coach is an easy target because you don't want to blame a player you love for something not going quite right.

Walker is a fine hitting coach. The players respect him and love working with him. Should he get all the credit for 23 runs in 2 games? No, just as he should not be ripped or be fired if they scored 3 runs the first 2 games. The Sox will slump this year, everyone does, and there will be posts calling for Walker's head. Again.

ElevenUp
04-03-2011, 09:04 AM
i'm trying to figure out the thread title. What trouble is brewing?

+1

bluedemon45
04-03-2011, 09:09 AM
The thing that I've noticed out of our hitters in two games so far is the ability to hit the ball to opposite field, also they are seeing the ball extremely well right now.

Does Greg Walker get credit for that? I don't know its too early to tell.

kufram
04-03-2011, 09:25 AM
I'm trying to figure out the thread title. What trouble is brewing?

+1

I guess I should have tealed it.

soxinem1
04-03-2011, 11:38 AM
it pissed me off that people were using greg walker as their whipping boy. I hope the sox give him an extension just to shove it in their faces. I've never heard of a single ex-sox player who said that walker hurt their game. If the players don't perform, it is the fault of the players. Managers and coaches aren't the ones taking at bats and throwing the pitches.

+1

Gavin
04-03-2011, 11:41 AM
Personally, I don't think Greg Walker amounts to an difference in the hitting. I do think Greg Walker is well skilled in keeping his job.

Johnny Mostil
04-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I hope the Sox give him an extension just to shove it in their faces.

I hope the Sox do whatever is best for the team . . .

That said, I'd agree there's been too much attention on what a hitting coach can, or can't, do at the major-league level . . . if Walker works well with this particular roster (and I'm in no position to judge, but maybe others are), great . . .

mantis1212
04-03-2011, 11:46 AM
The way I see it, if you were in the "can't blame Greg Walker" camp over the past couple years, you cannot give him any credit today.

I respect Chris Rongey's opinion, but if he starts singing the praises of Gregg Walker now that the Sox are hitting, it would be very hypocritical.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2011, 11:56 AM
Let's give it a few more games before we talk about the Sox' "tremendous hitting" to start the season. This was two games. And lest we forget the Sox' bats were hot for the first week or so of 2008, at which point Walker was clucking about boasting about their hot start and "see, we are showin' ya" or nonsense like that. After the first week, the bats went ice cold until the second week of June, and we once again got the standard Walker lines about how they would start hitting once the weather warmed up.

So, let's just take a lesson from Walker himself and give it a little more time before we start boasting about a hot start.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 12:39 PM
The way I see it, if you were in the "can't blame Greg Walker" camp over the past couple years, you cannot give him any credit today.

I respect Chris Rongey's opinion, but if he starts singing the praises of Gregg Walker now that the Sox are hitting, it would be very hypocritical.

On the other hand, if you're in the "the Sox scored one run, Greg Walker sucks" camp, you should be on your knees bowing to him after the first 2 games. Rongey has praised Walker in the past, so if he continues to praise him, it won't be hypocritical.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 12:40 PM
I'm trying to figure out the thread title. What trouble is brewing?
I think he means the discussion. Walker for being such a quiet out of the spotlight guy, sparks quite a debate on most message boards.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2011, 02:22 PM
On the other hand, if you're in the "the Sox scored one run, Greg Walker sucks" camp, you should be on your knees bowing to him after the first 2 games. Rongey has praised Walker in the past, so if he continues to praise him, it won't be hypocritical.Not at all, because Walkerball is defined by offense explosions which skew stats and make the offense look better than it actually is, covering up really bad loses to awful pitchers, such as the one which happened today. Sure, Masterson sucks, but we averaged 8 runs per game!

sullythered
04-03-2011, 02:27 PM
Not at all, because Walkerball is defined by offense explosions which skew stats and make the offense look better than it actually is, covering up really bad loses to awful pitchers, such as the one which happened today. Sure, Masterson sucks, but we averaged 8 runs per game!
So Greg Walker's hitting instruction somehow leads to a lot of hits in some games and few in others?

You have to explain to me how, exactly, that can even be possible.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2011, 02:36 PM
So Greg Walker's hitting instruction somehow leads to a lot of hits in some games and few in others?

You have to explain to me how, exactly, that can even be possible.When you swing for the fences every time, sometimes the balls go out, and when they do, they do in bunches. But yes, it has been chronicled that the entire team has gone into a massive month-long slump each of Walker's seasons and multiple month long slumps each of the past 4 seasons. And the only mainstay is Konerko, so it isn't the same players every time. The team repeatedly fails to make adjustments.

JermaineDye05
04-03-2011, 02:36 PM
I think fans, especially on this board, put too much weight on what the hitting coach does. I can honestly say I have no idea what a hitting coach does aside from coach hitting. It seems to me that he really doesn't have much influence on a team. Good hitters are going to hit. Bad hitters are not. Look at Rudy Jaramillo. What did he do for the Cubs after he signed with them? Soriano and Fukudome are still mediocre hitters.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 02:37 PM
Not at all, because Walkerball is defined by offense explosions which skew stats and make the offense look better than it actually is, covering up really bad loses to awful pitchers, such as the one which happened today. Sure, Masterson sucks, but we averaged 8 runs per game!
BS. The Sox also won 2 out of 3 and would have had to score 8 to win today. Considering the Tribe scored 10 in game 1 and 7 today, why aren't you crying about the pitching coach?

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 02:38 PM
When you swing for the fences every time, sometimes the balls go out, and when they do, they do in bunches. But yes, it has been chronicled that the entire team has gone into a massive month-long slump each of Walker's seasons and multiple month long slumps each of the past 4 seasons. And the only mainstay is Konerko, so it isn't the same players every time. The team repeatedly fails to make adjustments.
Its too bad you don't have any clue about Greg Walker but continue to pop off. Can you name a team that doesn't go into slumps?

TheOldRoman
04-03-2011, 02:48 PM
BS. The Sox also won 2 out of 3 and would have had to score 8 to win today. Considering the Tribe scored 10 in game 1 and 7 today, why aren't you crying about the pitching coach?I just used this game as an example of a horrible offensive performance against a horrible pitcher. That is all, just an example. I am not pointing fingers for today's loss or calling for Walker to be fired based on this game, though everyone knows where I stand on that. I was merely saying that the Sox offense for the past 7 years has been known for explosions followed by nothing. That is why I said we shouldn't go nuts about scoring a lot of runs over the first two games and give Walker a lifetime extension.

Its too bad you don't have any clue about Greg Walker but continue to pop off. Can you name a team that doesn't go into slumps?I am pretty sure I can name 29 teams which haven't seen the entire team go into multiple month long slumps each of the past 4 seasons, but that would be just a guess.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 03:04 PM
I just used this game as an example of a horrible offensive performance against a horrible pitcher. That is all, just an example. I am not pointing fingers for today's loss or calling for Walker to be fired based on this game, though everyone knows where I stand on that. I was merely saying that the Sox offense for the past 7 years has been known for explosions followed by nothing. That is why I said we shouldn't go nuts about scoring a lot of runs over the first two games and give Walker a lifetime extension.

I am pretty sure I can name 29 teams which haven't seen the entire team go into multiple month long slumps each of the past 4 seasons, but that would be just a guess.
Of course you can't blame the construction of the roster, the fact that they have had a glorified softball line up for much of KW's reign on anyone but Walker. Show me one team that doesn't slump. Just one. Name one player that got away from Walker and became a beast of a hitter. Just one, and not Nick Swisher. He didn't work with Walker. If he's so terrible and others are so great, there should be plenty of examples.

What is funny is all the Walker bashers mention he wants all his guys to swing for the fences, which is false. They would have been doing cartwheels if JR had given Rudy Jaramillo $2 million a year to be the hitting coach, yet Jaramillo is a guy who wants everyone to swing for home runs.

sullythered
04-03-2011, 03:19 PM
Of course you can't blame the construction of the roster, the fact that they have had a glorified softball line up for much of KW's reign on anyone but Walker. Show me one team that doesn't slump. Just one. Name one player that got away from Walker and became a beast of a hitter. Just one, and not Nick Swisher. He didn't work with Walker. If he's so terrible and others are so great, there should be plenty of examples.

What is funny is all the Walker bashers mention he wants all his guys to swing for the fences, which is false. They would have been doing cartwheels if JR had given Rudy Jaramillo $2 million a year to be the hitting coach, yet Jaramillo is a guy who wants everyone to swing for home runs.

Pierre
Beckham
Rios
Alexei
Morel
Quentin

Can all run.

We don't have a softball lineup. I'm with you on the Walker stuff, but the "softball lineup" stuff just isn't true. We have a few power guys, just like every other good team.

Daver
04-03-2011, 03:23 PM
I think fans, especially on this board, put to much weight on what the hitting coach does. I can honestly say I have no idea what a hitting coach does aside from coach hitting.

Plays cards with the rest of the coaching staff.

dickallen15
04-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Pierre
Beckham
Rios
Alexei
Morel
Quentin

Can all run.

We don't have a softball lineup. I'm with you on the Walker stuff, but the "softball lineup" stuff just isn't true. We have a few power guys, just like every other good team.

Please read my post. I said for much of KW's reign. Walker has been the hitting coach since the middle of 2003. When you have Thomas, Lee, Ordonez, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Crede, Jose Valentin, its going to be a lot of all or nothing. Everyone slumps. Some just have it out for Walker, and even though during his tenure, when the Sox have spent more per player on the pitching staff, the offense has ranked higher than the pitching, yet Don Cooper is a genius. Nobody blames pitchers getting lit up or having trouble throwing strikes on him. The Walker bashing over the years has made zero sense. The haters are probably guys that couldn't hit in little league and probably blamed it on their coach.

Crooked Number
04-03-2011, 03:45 PM
I just used this game as an example of a horrible offensive performance against a horrible pitcher.

Masterson has a nasty sinkerball and recorded 15+ groundball outs today, with zero K's. Sox made good contact, but for the most part right at fielders. Coming into today he had a 2.41 era in 41 IP vs the Sox (which will go down more now). Far from horrible. The guy is a solid mlb pitcher, and executed his gameplan of keeping his sinker low to induce the groundballs.

I know what you are referring to with the Sox absolutely sucking against no name pitchers. Someone here has the "Cy ___" signature that displays all the suck ass pitchers who have dominated us. However, I think Masterson does not belong in this category. He has a proven track record against us.

sullythered
04-03-2011, 04:20 PM
Please read my post. I said for much of KW's reign. Walker has been the hitting coach since the middle of 2003. When you have Thomas, Lee, Ordonez, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Crede, Jose Valentin, its going to be a lot of all or nothing. Everyone slumps. Some just have it out for Walker, and even though during his tenure, when the Sox have spent more per player on the pitching staff, the offense has ranked higher than the pitching, yet Don Cooper is a genius. Nobody blames pitchers getting lit up or having trouble throwing strikes on him. The Walker bashing over the years has made zero sense. The haters are probably guys that couldn't hit in little league and probably blamed it on their coach.

:redface: Yeah, I'm tired. Sorry bout that. I guess I actually agree with all your points, then. Carry on...

mantis1212
04-03-2011, 06:32 PM
On the other hand, if you're in the "the Sox scored one run, Greg Walker sucks" camp, you should be on your knees bowing to him after the first 2 games. Rongey has praised Walker in the past, so if he continues to praise him, it won't be hypocritical.

No one's getting on their knees for two ****ing days of results, but I agree with your core point.

One common understanding after all the arguments last year is a hitting coach is really just a batting cage attendent, so no, he doesn't deserve any credit.

Daver
04-03-2011, 07:45 PM
One common understanding after all the arguments last year is a hitting coach is really just a batting cage attendent, so no, he doesn't deserve any credit.

This is not even close to being accurate.

TheVulture
04-03-2011, 08:26 PM
One common understanding after all the arguments last year is a hitting coach is really just a batting cage attendent, so no, he doesn't deserve any credit.

I don't get this point being repeated again and again. A hitting coach has no value? If coaching has no value, by extension that would mean attempts to improve mechanics, shortening swing, control of strike zone, etc, has no purpose, or that a player cannot be instructed to do so, instead can only find out how to do so on their own. You can argue vets don't need help, but that would suggest they somehow already know how to adjust their approach to their aging bodies. That just isn't logical, if you ask me.

Besides, we know Frank Thomas sees the benefit of a good hitting instructor. That's good enough evidence for me.

hawkjt
04-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Masterson has a nasty sinkerball and recorded 15+ groundball outs today, with zero K's. Sox made good contact, but for the most part right at fielders. Coming into today he had a 2.41 era in 41 IP vs the Sox (which will go down more now). Far from horrible. The guy is a solid mlb pitcher, and executed his gameplan of keeping his sinker low to induce the groundballs.

I know what you are referring to with the Sox absolutely sucking against no name pitchers. Someone here has the "Cy ___" signature that displays all the suck ass pitchers who have dominated us. However, I think Masterson does not belong in this category. He has a proven track record against us.


Anyone that watched the game today could not come away saying Masterson sucks. He was damn good today,and as his history suggests,when he is good, he kills the Sox. He just matches up well against our lineup....when he has total command,and he made maybe 2-3 mistakes the whole day. I get sick of fans who forget that the other guys are pros also and get paid also and will own you on days that they are in command of their pitches.

mantis1212
04-04-2011, 12:34 PM
I don't get this point being repeated again and again. A hitting coach has no value? If coaching has no value, by extension that would mean attempts to improve mechanics, shortening swing, control of strike zone, etc, has no purpose, or that a player cannot be instructed to do so, instead can only find out how to do so on their own. You can argue vets don't need help, but that would suggest they somehow already know how to adjust their approach to their aging bodies. That just isn't logical, if you ask me.

Besides, we know Frank Thomas sees the benefit of a good hitting instructor. That's good enough evidence for me.

"Batting cage attendant" was an exaggeration on my part. My only point is if a poor-hitting team isn't his fault, than a well-hitting team is not his fault either.

kufram
04-04-2011, 01:08 PM
"Batting cage attendant" was an exaggeration on my part. My only point is if a poor-hitting team isn't his fault, than a well-hitting team is not his fault either.


And, of course, the other side of that coin is that if a poor-hitting team IS his fault then a well-hitting MUST be his fault also.

I hasten to add that I'm not advocating either of those two extremes. My only thoughts on Greg walker is that he faces extremely harsh, sometimes vitriolic, treatment with dignity. That tells me something about him.

Falstaff
04-04-2011, 07:18 PM
Remember, in the 21st century now the hitters can access a library of
their at bats on videotape. The ones who take the studious approach will
spend hour comparing successful AB's, hot streak AB's vs. unsuccessful or slumptime AB's . If you've ever had a chance to do that, its really revealing as to revealing flaws in technique, or revealing what the pitchers have learned. So if anything MLB hitting coach has to be a video fiend and sit players down for the feetback session. Camera never lies.

FielderJones
04-10-2011, 07:53 PM
I've never enjoyed being criticized and told how stupid I was. It is not something I enjoy.

But I also know that when you sign on to be the hitting coach in the big leagues with any team, much less the Chicago White Sox who have great expectations in a big market ... that there is going to be criticism. And offensive baseball is a game of failure. You have to learn to deal with it. As a hitting coach, you have to learn to deal with it, too. I have grown kind of thick skin about it. Don't particularly care for it, but I am happy to have this job and I take a lot of pride in the fact that I have been here for a long time.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-sox-hitting-coach-got-a-lot-of-guys-swinging-the-bats-well-20110410,0,4168546.story

SBSoxFan
04-10-2011, 09:21 PM
When I was a kid, I went to a game and saw Charlie Lau working with Steve Kemp in a batting cage prior to the game. Kemp went on to have a great game offensively. Today, if you watched Sarah Kustok's interview with Konerko after the game, he said something about Walker giving Konerko a tip during pre-game and Konerko ran with it. If a player gives a coach credit, why shouldn't we?

By all accounts, Konkero has been a long-term project for Walker. Perhaps we are seeing the fruits of that labor the last season plus 9 games.

delben91
04-11-2011, 10:40 AM
By all accounts, Konkero has been a long-term project for Walker. Perhaps we are seeing the fruits of that labor the last season plus 9 games.

Konerko credits a tip Walker gave him in the cage before Sunday's game for Paul's great day at the plate.

"[White Sox hitting coach Greg Walker] actually grabbed me and gave me something in the cage. I have to give him some credit, because before the game, I didn't have a good feel. I was kind of a mess and he kind of gave me something and it seemed to click."

Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_04_10_tbamlb_chamlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=cws#)

boiker
04-11-2011, 02:59 PM
I've hammered Walker in the past for his coaching. This spring, I watched a couple days of BP before spring training and was really impressed with the interaction and seriousness he approached BP and skill work. He knows what he is doing. However, I think the success of the lineup this year has got to be a coordinated effort of off-season training, good health, and good coaching.