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cws05champ
03-24-2011, 08:34 AM
http://twitter.com/eddymk/status/50649230594936832

Small move, but another 1st round bust moved on.

wilburaga
03-24-2011, 11:55 AM
From the post Himes era up until Beckham in 2008, the Sox first rounders have been almost total busts. Here is the sad litany.

1991 Scott Ruffcorn
1992 Eddie Pearson
1993 Scott Christman
1994 Mark Johnson
1995 Jeff Liefer
1996 Bobby Seay (Didn't sign)
1997 Jason Dallaero
1998 Kip Wells
1999 Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter
2000 Joe Borchard
2001 Kris Honel
2002 Royce Ring
2003 Brian Anderson
2004 Josh Fields
2005 Lance Broadway
2006 Kyle McCullough
2007 Aaron Poreda

Only Wells made any significant contribution and he wasn't anything to write home about. I doubt any organization can come close to such sustained first round futility.

tacosalbarojas
03-24-2011, 12:13 PM
From the post Himes era up until Beckham in 2008, the Sox first rounders have been almost total busts. Here is the sad litany.

1991 Scott Ruffcorn
1992 Eddie Pearson
1993 Scott Christman
1994 Mark Johnson
1995 Jeff Liefer
1996 Bobby Seay (Didn't sign)
1997 Jason Dallaero
1998 Kip Wells
1999 Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter
2000 Joe Borchard
2001 Kris Honel
2002 Royce Ring
2003 Brian Anderson
2004 Josh Fields
2005 Lance Broadway
2006 Kyle McCullough
2007 Aaron Poreda

Only Wells made any significant contribution and he wasn't anything to write home about. I doubt any organization can come close to such sustained first round futility.
Awful. Plus Dallaero and BA tried converting to the mound after failed attempts at their drafted positions.

cards press box
03-24-2011, 02:51 PM
But give KW credit. He addressed the problem and in the past three years, the Sox' first round picks have been Gordon Beckham, Jared Mitchell and Chris Sale. The Sox have gone for players with bigger upside and the resulting picks have been a lot better.

doublem23
03-24-2011, 03:04 PM
But give KW credit. He addressed the problem and in the past three years, the Sox' first round picks have been Gordon Beckham, Jared Mitchell and Chris Sale. The Sox have gone for players with bigger upside and the resulting picks have been a lot better.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch

DumpJerry
03-24-2011, 03:15 PM
But give KW credit. He addressed the problem and in the past three years, the Sox' first round picks have been Gordon Beckham, Jared Mitchell and Chris Sale. The Sox have gone for players with bigger upside and the resulting picks have been a lot better.
As I recall, before becoming GM, Kenny was the player development guy.

dagame2005
03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
Don't count your chickens before they hatch

Whether or not they become stars is still to be determined. However, two of those guys have already done more than damn near everyone on that list.

Lip Man 1
03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
He was for ten years as I recall.

Lip

A. Cavatica
03-24-2011, 07:34 PM
1991 Scott Ruffcorn
1992 Eddie Pearson
1993 Scott Christman
1994 Mark Johnson
1995 Jeff Liefer
1996 Bobby Seay (Didn't sign)
1997 Jason Dallaero
1998 Kip Wells
1999 Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter
2000 Joe Borchard
2001 Kris Honel
2002 Royce Ring
2003 Brian Anderson
2004 Josh Fields
2005 Lance Broadway
2006 Kyle McCullough
2007 Aaron Poreda

Only Wells made any significant contribution and he wasn't anything to write home about.

The trades did more for the team than the first-rounders we kept. Thank you, LTP.

mzh
03-24-2011, 07:51 PM
The trades did more for the team than the first-rounders we kept. Thank you, LTP.
Interesting thought:

Ruffcorn: Sold to the Phillies. yes, sold.
Pearson: Released
Christman: Released
Johnson: Throw in in the deal that got us Billy Koch and Neal Cotts
Liefer: Had one pretty good year, then got us Bartolo Colon.
Wells: Got us the immortal Todd Ritchie.
Stumm: Released
Ginter: Traded for Timo Perez.
LTP: Thornton
Honel: Released
Ring: Deadline deal for Roberto Alomar
Anderson: Traded for Mark Kotsay
Fields: Traded for Mark Teahen
Broadway: Traded for Ramon Castro
Poreda: Traded for Peavy.

since 2000 I suppose they've been better about at least getting a return for our busted prospects... They must have gotten better about calling quits on them earlier.

Domeshot17
03-24-2011, 08:03 PM
But give KW credit. He addressed the problem and in the past three years, the Sox' first round picks have been Gordon Beckham, Jared Mitchell and Chris Sale. The Sox have gone for players with bigger upside and the resulting picks have been a lot better.

These were not exactly tough picks. It was Gordon or Justin Smoak for us, win win there. No idea how Mitchell will turn out, was a good pick but also a typical easy sign, and how Sale magically fell into our laps I still don't know, but I am not complaining.

Daver
03-24-2011, 08:09 PM
Aaron Rowand was a quasi first round pick.

KRS1
03-24-2011, 10:02 PM
Aaron Rowand was a quasi first round pick.

As was Gio.

rdivaldi
03-25-2011, 11:26 PM
I doubt any organization can come close to such sustained first round futility.

If you look across the board, most teams have a ton of busts littering their first round for that same timeframe. For example, the Yankees have a pitiful record of first rounders. If it wasn't for some shortstop in 1992 and Hughes in 2004, they've been horrific.

1991 - Brien Taylor
1992 - Derek Jeter
1993 - Matt Drews
1994 - Brian Buchanan
1995 - Shea Morenz
1996 - Eric Milton
1997 - Tyrell Godwin
1998 - Andy Brown
1999 - David Walling
2000 - Dave Parrish
2001 - John-Ford Griffin
2002 - No Pick
2003 - Eric Duncan
2004 - Phillip Hughes
2005 - C.J. Henry
2006 - Ian Kennedy
2007 - Andrew Brackman

mzh
03-25-2011, 11:47 PM
If you look across the board, most teams have a ton of busts littering their first round for that same timeframe. For example, the Yankees have a pitiful record of first rounders. If it wasn't for some shortstop in 1992 and Hughes in 2004, they've been horrific.

The difference here is that the Yankees have been drafting in the last 5 picks consistently since the early Nineties. The difference between a number 10 pick and a number 27 pick is usually exponential. Regardless of end result, its the difference between a Chris Sale or Gordon Beckham and an Andrew Brackman.

Tragg
03-26-2011, 12:20 AM
Interesting thought:

Ruffcorn: Sold to the Phillies. yes, sold.
Pearson: Released
Christman: Released
Johnson: Throw in in the deal that got us Billy Koch and Neal Cotts
Liefer: Had one pretty good year, then got us Bartolo Colon.
Wells: Got us the immortal Todd Ritchie.
Stumm: Released
Ginter: Traded for Timo Perez.
LTP: Thornton
Honel: Released
Ring: Deadline deal for Roberto Alomar
Anderson: Traded for Mark Kotsay
Fields: Traded for Mark Teahen
Broadway: Traded for Ramon Castro
Poreda: Traded for Peavy.

since 2000 I suppose they've been better about at least getting a return for our busted prospects... They must have gotten better about calling quits on them earlier.
An end of the road Alomar, Kotsay, Teahen one of 5 or 6 pitchers for Peavy who hasn't done much pitching and, well, Castro's a decent utility catcher I guess.
Not much return there.

rdivaldi
03-26-2011, 12:51 AM
The difference here is that the Yankees have been drafting in the last 5 picks consistently since the early Nineties. The difference between a number 10 pick and a number 27 pick is usually exponential. Regardless of end result, its the difference between a Chris Sale or Gordon Beckham and an Andrew Brackman.

I do not agree with this. The White Sox drafted no earlier than 12th from 1991 to 2007 until getting a shot at Beckham in 2008. A clear majority of their pick in that timeframe were in the 15-25 range. I've heard many scouts jokingly say that the difference between the 15th pick and 32nd pick is how much they'll sign for.

For the record the White Sox from 1991- 2007 picked:

25th, 24th, 17th, 26th, 25th, 12th, 15th, 16th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 18th, 15th, 18th, 15th, 29th and 25th.

For the math wizards out there, that's an average of 19th position.

Domeshot17
03-27-2011, 12:19 AM
I do not agree with this. The White Sox drafted no earlier than 12th from 1991 to 2007 until getting a shot at Beckham in 2008. A clear majority of their pick in that timeframe were in the 15-25 range. I've heard many scouts jokingly say that the difference between the 15th pick and 32nd pick is how much they'll sign for.

For the record the White Sox from 1991- 2007 picked:

25th, 24th, 17th, 26th, 25th, 12th, 15th, 16th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 18th, 15th, 18th, 15th, 29th and 25th.

For the math wizards out there, that's an average of 19th position.

Well its a play on numbers, the Sox have only picked 19th or higher 6 times in 17-18 years.

The first round picks have been a factor in how pathetic our farm is, but its beyond the first round. The sandwich rounds kill us, as does the overall draft philosophy of the team (trading money for talent every year).

I don't remember the exact math, but It was something like that last 3 or 4 years we have spent in the bottom 1/3 on the draft, get outspent by like Pitt and KC etc.

I don't know if its the scouts, or our farm system plan that leads to no development, or both, but it is pretty bad. Even if we got back all the guys from the Peavy deal, we would still easily be in the bottom of the league in farm rankings.

rdivaldi
03-30-2011, 12:29 AM
Even if we got back all the guys from the Peavy deal, we would still easily be in the bottom of the league in farm rankings.

Well, we already got Carter back and Russell is now on the Rays. I really don't know if adding Poreda would do much for our farm system, he's a mess mechanically.