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dickallen15
03-20-2011, 01:55 PM
Apparently some shoulder issues have popped up and the Jakemeister is shutting it down.

http://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/49544100013285376 (http://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/49544100013285376)

It supposedly is rotator cuff tendinitis. He now says he may pitch Thursday.

DirtySox
03-20-2011, 01:58 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales
Peavy rotator cuff tendinitis
5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales/status/49543929544187904)

JermaineDye05
03-20-2011, 01:58 PM
Just saw Ranger post this.

Regardless if this is nothing, I assume this means he'll get April off like he's going to need.

I'm not panicking just yet. The doctors said there would be speed bumps.

Ron Karkovice
03-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Notes from Ranger per 670thescore:

"Shoulder discomfort over the last few starts.

So no work today, no bullpen sessions tomorrow. Thursday start has not been ruled out as of yet.

The soreness has nothing to do with the Lat surgery; it is a sore shoulder, not sore lat.

Feels stiff today so he is "being reeled back in."

If he does not start thursday good chance he will not start season with the club.

At least Peavy is being completely honest/smart with doctors and front office.

Doctors foresaw that he would have a set back, etc. etc.

Doesn't appear to be as bad as a situation as it may sound, etc. etc."

All paraphrased.

JermaineDye05
03-20-2011, 02:02 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales
Peavy rotator cuff tendinitis
5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales/status/49543929544187904)

Unless there's a tear or something's broken, I don't know the gravity of something like this.

Is this a big deal requiring surgery or an extended period of rest or something that can be fixed in a couple weeks to a month?

Ron Karkovice
03-20-2011, 02:03 PM
Unless there's a tear or something's broken, I don't know the gravity of something like this.

Is this a big deal requiring surgery or an extended period of rest or something that can be fixed in a couple weeks to a month?

Peavy made it sound like that the Doctor's predicted this soreness to come up on his path back to the MLB. Starting the season isnt ruled out yet, but it appears he should not.

JermaineDye05
03-20-2011, 02:07 PM
Assuming this isn't a precursor to another injury, I think, in the scheme of things, this is a good thing. I was against bringing Peavy with the team in April when we were really only going to need him for two-three starts (not positive on that). Humber has had a good enough spring training to spot start for those games. Meanwhile, Peavy can get to 100% and then be back with the team in May rather than being put into the fire at 85-90%.

SoxSpeed22
03-20-2011, 02:14 PM
Shoulder tendinitis is pretty common for a pitcher. Jake did not get much of a chance to build his shoulder strength in the offseason, so this might be the result of overuse or not having strong enough muscles. I'm not that worried, but shutting him down for 2-3 weeks should be best for him.

LoveYourSuit
03-20-2011, 02:20 PM
Perhaps over compensating for the lat here. Might be putting more stress on the shoulder than before.

sox1970
03-20-2011, 02:23 PM
Perhaps over compensating for the lat here. Might be putting more stress on the shoulder than before.

Or his shoulder was crap to begin with, and the lat injury happened last year compensating for the shoulder.

Not a surprise at all that this is happening.

delben91
03-20-2011, 02:31 PM
Is Jake Peavy destined to become the Sox's next Todd Ritchie? A pitcher that drops off dramatically the instant he arrives in Chicago?

Brian26
03-20-2011, 02:33 PM
Apparently some shoulder issues have popped up and the Jakemeister is shutting it down.

http://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/49544100013285376 (http://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/49544100013285376)

It supposedly is rotator cuff tendinitis. He now says he may pitch Thursday.

If you don't mind, I'm going to change the title of the thread from "Peavy Being Shutdown" to something a little less panic-inducing. When I first saw that, I immediately thought the worst and figured he was done for the year.

asindc
03-20-2011, 02:34 PM
If you don't mind, I'm going to change the title of the thread from "Peavy Being Shutdown". When I first saw that, I immediately thought the worst and figured he was done for the year.

Thank you.

LoveYourSuit
03-20-2011, 02:47 PM
Is Jake Peavy destined to become the Sox's next Todd Ritchie? A pitcher that drops off dramatically the instant he arrives in Chicago?


He was damaged goods before he even got here but still young enough and a great pitcher to take the risk on. Ritchie just sucked.


Unfortunately it is looking like $ for $ the worst investment in White Sox history. Yeah, even more than Albert Belle, Jamie Navarro, or Scott Linebrink.

But all can be worth it if the Sox can make it to the World Series this year with Jake Peavy winning games in October. That's all that matters.

Teams around baseball have these bad contracts/investments on their books and are still able to win. Look at Zito and the Giants. The Yankees have a ton of over-paid $$$ on their books.

JermaineDye05
03-20-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm surprised. I thought there would be far more dark clouds in this thread.

hi im skot
03-20-2011, 02:59 PM
I'm surprised. I thought there would be far more dark clouds in this thread.

Even the Peavy supporters (I consider myself one) seem to expect the worst at this point.

:shrug:

kapz
03-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Even the Peavy supporters (I consider myself one) seem to expect the worst at this point.

:shrug:

There is not much to be concerned about here .... It wasnt a secret that Peavy will experiencing some type of speed bump on his rehab course. I'm quite sure he would be back within a week, they haven't even ruled him out for his next start vs the cubs. This is no biggie, Peavy even said it himself this is most likely a result from having not pitched in between starts due that flu.

Lip Man 1
03-20-2011, 03:31 PM
Disappointed but at this point based on what I've read it's not that big a deal. His rotator is sore. Name me a pitcher who doesn't have this from time to time.

Folks (some) are starting to say "I told you so..." simply because of what happened last June.

The two are totally disconnected.

Let's not start panicking yet, OK?

So he starts the season in extended spring training for two weeks...big deal.

Now my opinion can change but again based of what we've been told RIGHT NOW, this isn't the issue some are making it out to be.

Lip

asindc
03-20-2011, 03:32 PM
Disappointed but at this point based on what I've read it's not that big a deal. His rotator is sore. Name me a pitcher who doesn't have this from time to time.

Folks (some) are starting to say "I told you so..." simply because of what happened last June.

The two are totally disconnected.

Let's not start panicking yet, OK?

So he starts the season in extended spring training for two weeks...big deal.

Now my opinion can change but again based of what we've been told RIGHT NOW, this isn't the issue some are making it out to be.

Lip

Succinctly put.

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2011, 03:38 PM
Disappointed but at this point based on what I've read it's not that big a deal. His rotator is sore. Name me a pitcher who doesn't have this from time to time.

Folks (some) are starting to say "I told you so..." simply because of what happened last June.

The two are totally disconnected.

Let's not start panicking yet, OK?

So he starts the season in extended spring training for two weeks...big deal.

Now my opinion can change but again based of what we've been told RIGHT NOW, this isn't the issue some are making it out to be.

Lip

Lip, I really have to compliment you. Between this reply, plus some of the nice things you've said recently about the Sox organization, KW and JR, I'd guess you've traded in your dark cloud on some pollyanna pigtails.
:tongue:

sullythered
03-20-2011, 03:41 PM
Did anybody expect Peavy not to experience any hiccups? Really?

TheOldRoman
03-20-2011, 03:51 PM
Disappointed but at this point based on what I've read it's not that big a deal. His rotator is sore. Name me a pitcher who doesn't have this from time to time.

Folks (some) are starting to say "I told you so..." simply because of what happened last June.

The two are totally disconnected.

Let's not start panicking yet, OK?

So he starts the season in extended spring training for two weeks...big deal.

Now my opinion can change but again based of what we've been told RIGHT NOW, this isn't the issue some are making it out to be.

LipThere aren't too many people overreacting in this thread, but still, when LIP has to be the voice of reason, something is wrong. I mean, people can call Peavy the biggest waste of money in Sox history, and that is fine. Those same people would say the same thing after a game in which he gave up 5 runs. Peavy's lat is 100% healed. It has been 100% healed for a few months now, so he isn't overcompensating for anything. It is just a little shoulder soreness, and the only reason it is a story is because he is coming back from the injury and getting his arm stretched out.

kapz
03-20-2011, 03:54 PM
I didnt mind at all of Peavy pitching yesterday but I question what coaching staff was doing pushing him up to 83 pitches he should have been done after the 5th inning. Keep in mind he had not stay on course in terms on side session/bullpen work and yet they let him out for that 6th inning. Really stupid move by Ozzie & Co.

Soxfest
03-20-2011, 04:00 PM
we shall see which way JP goes from here!

Thome25
03-20-2011, 04:27 PM
I hope for the best but this isn't looking good......injuries are starting to become a big problem for Peavy since 2009. It looks like it's going to be difficult for him.

Good luck to him and if he can get through this latest set back then more power to him.

TomBradley72
03-20-2011, 04:39 PM
FWIW- they were interviewing Ozzie during the White Sox broadcast today- he said Peavy would miss "a couple of starts" and they were going to their "Plan B".

Lip Man 1
03-20-2011, 05:21 PM
That's Phil Humber.

Lip

Brian26
03-20-2011, 06:09 PM
That's Phil Humber.

Lip

Humber's been a nice surprise this spring. He's more than a capable temporary 5th starter at this point.

canOcorn
03-20-2011, 07:18 PM
Humber's been a nice surprise this spring. He's more than a capable temporary 5th starter at this point.

Really? Marquez looks like a "nice surprise" so far if we didn't know he was really a pile of junk. Sorry, but I'm doubtful that Humber is a more than capable temporary SP in the AL. Maybe I'm wrong since Silva and Livan seem to be still making a living in baseball, but that is in the NL.

SoxSpeed22
03-20-2011, 07:24 PM
After experiencing the black hole we had at 5th starter from 2002-2004, I think we can do a lot worse than Phil Humber for 3 starts (4 tops).

Daver
03-20-2011, 07:37 PM
Anyone that thought Jake was going to seamlessly re enter the rotation after the injury he sustained is just plain deluding themselves, it will take time to regain his range of motion to what it was while he was an active player.

Falstaff
03-20-2011, 08:12 PM
ya, well a few days ago they say he had "stomach flu"; taking time off for that. (Hmmmmmm......) Now they say got cuff tendonitis of shoulder. I say: now, more than ever, "oil of wintergreen" + dedicated masseuse; for 2 weeks.
Gotta keep those muscles loose.

Bob Roarman
03-20-2011, 11:27 PM
Yeah not surprising at all. It's really just a matter of time with Peavy. All you have to do is take a look at his delivery. If he continues to throw like that, it won't be long before he's out again for "shoulder soreness" and then he comes back, pitches for a little while, and then same thing. Over and over. There's going to be another injury with him throwing like that, it's just a matter of when.

Unless he makes drastic changes, 20 something starts is going to be a miracle.

doublem23
03-20-2011, 11:31 PM
Yeah not surprising at all. It's really just a matter of time with Peavy. All you have to do is take a look at his delivery. If he continues to throw like that, it won't be long before he's out again for "shoulder soreness" and then he comes back, pitches for a little while, and then same thing. Over and over. There's going to be another injury with him throwing like that, it's just a matter of when.

Unless he makes drastic changes, 20 something starts is going to be a miracle.

Peavy averaged 30 starts and 194 IP per season for 6 straight years in San Diego, has he made some drastic changes to his throwing motion since then?

I think it has more to with you can't expect a guy to not throw competitively for 9 months and then not have any setbacks at all as he starts to stretch his arm out.

Unless the Sox come out and say it's something more than just general shoulder soreness, any projecting of long-term damage is just overreacting negatively for the sake of overreacting negatively.

Foulke You
03-21-2011, 12:05 AM
Really? Marquez looks like a "nice surprise" so far if we didn't know he was really a pile of junk. Sorry, but I'm doubtful that Humber is a more than capable temporary SP in the AL.
I'm more inclined to give the nod to Humber. He seems to be able to throw more types of pitches and was a former high first round pick. You don't get drafted 3rd overall without scouts thinking you have some talent. It may not ever come together for him but I always lean on the side of talent when making a decision like this because you can't teach it. Humber at least has the "change of scenery/right coach" factor that might work out for him. Marquez hasn't really shown much in his career and seems to throw only two pitches (fastball/heavy sinker) which would better lend itself to bullpen work. It's an interesting decision to make if it is between those two guys for the #5 spot because they are both out of options.

Brewski
03-21-2011, 10:54 AM
Dark Clouds vs. Pollyanna's. Where do I stand? He's been a workhorse, he has an odd motion, he suffered a unique injury, his career arrow seems to be pointing down. You'd have to stick your head in the sand not to be very concerned. And I am.

#1swisher
03-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Coop on Mully and Hanley regarding Peavy.
"We're listening to the doctors and the trainers."

Link (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/03/21/cooper-the-inmates-dont-run-the-asylum/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cbschicago-sports+%28CBS+Chicago%27s+Most+Popular+Sports+Stor ies%29&utm_content=Twitter)

GoSox2K3
03-21-2011, 01:14 PM
Here's an opinion on Ozzie's handling of Peavy this spring and why this setback (if it indeed is just an expected bump in the road) could be a blessing in disguise:

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/rock-report/2011/03/jake-peavy-injury-may-look-bad-but-could-be-more-of-a-blessing.html

Red Barchetta
03-21-2011, 01:26 PM
Here's an opinion on Ozzie's handling of Peavy this spring and why this setback (if it indeed is just an expected bump in the road) could be a blessing in disguise:

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/rock-report/2011/03/jake-peavy-injury-may-look-bad-but-could-be-more-of-a-blessing.html

Some good points made in that article.

I for one never expected Peavy to be on the roster at the start of the season and I was not expecting him back in the rotation until after the All-Star break at the earliest. Anything sooner IMO is an unplanned bonus.

I love his attitude and his courage, however it's probably a good thing that he ratchet it down a little bit at this point. He has nothing to prove by returning early. Just return healthy (or at least as healthy as possible).

russ99
03-21-2011, 01:34 PM
Mamolo's becoming another Cowley with this article drumming up controversy where there is none, and his previous article with a cub-fan like ripping of Sox attendance.

Hopefully Jake dials it down a bit, and is more honest with the Sox staff moving forward. Hiding soreness for 3-4 starts is going to bring him nothing but trouble.

bigdommer
03-21-2011, 03:11 PM
He was damaged goods before he even got here but still young enough and a great pitcher to take the risk on. Ritchie just sucked.


Unfortunately it is looking like $ for $ the worst investment in White Sox history. Yeah, even more than Albert Belle, Jamie Navarro, or Scott Linebrink.



We're categorizing Albert Belle's White Sox contract as one of the worsts investments? Dude had two years in Chicago. In '97 he was an All-Star, and in '98 he had one of the best offensive seasons in franchise history. And he missed zero games. The guy was a jerk and one dimensional, but his performance while in Chicago was nothing short of outstanding.

Red Barchetta
03-21-2011, 04:05 PM
We're categorizing Albert Belle's White Sox contract as one of the worsts investments? Dude had two years in Chicago. In '97 he was an All-Star, and in '98 he had one of the best offensive seasons in franchise history. And he missed zero games. The guy was a jerk and one dimensional, but his performance while in Chicago was nothing short of outstanding.

I agree! Belle had the personality of mud and I hated watching him step out after every pitch to take two practice swings, however he had a very good 1997 season (30 HRs/116 RBIs) and was a Triple Crown contender in 1998 (49 HRs/152 RBIs and a .328 AVG). In two seasons, he played in 324 games. He showed up and worked.

Bucky F. Dent
03-21-2011, 04:28 PM
Three things

Can't really be suprised that this happened. He had major surgery, everyone knew there were likely going to be setbacks. This is a setback, but nothing catastrophic.

Is it unfortunate, sure, we'd all like for him to be 100% on opening day, but that was unrealistic.

In a way it's good to see that everyone within the organization (including Jake) is taking the long view of this and not trying to pitch through it or anything foolish like that.

In the words of Kevin Bacon, "Remain Calm! All Is Well!"

thomas35forever
03-21-2011, 05:14 PM
Per Ranger:
Long toss and a strength test up next for Peavy as he continues treatment. Still on hold for now
Peavy says the ultimate decisions in his program made by team with his input. Says he never begged to pitch

Bob Roarman
03-21-2011, 05:32 PM
Peavy averaged 30 starts and 194 IP per season for 6 straight years in San Diego, has he made some drastic changes to his throwing motion since then?

I think it has more to with you can't expect a guy to not throw competitively for 9 months and then not have any setbacks at all as he starts to stretch his arm out.

Unless the Sox come out and say it's something more than just general shoulder soreness, any projecting of long-term damage is just overreacting negatively for the sake of overreacting negatively.

So what stopped last year before this unprecedented injury? Why was he losing velocity? From now on, its always going to be something with Peavy. Time will tell the story of that. I hope it doesn't, but at this point it seems to be inevitable.

JermaineDye05
03-21-2011, 05:33 PM
Well, when Ozzie and Kenny are seemingly on good terms, the writers need to have something to write about, especially when the Sox biggest position battles were a fourth outfielder and 3B between Teahen and Morel.

This is a minor setback that is just being magnified because there really is nothing else of interest in Sox camp.

Falstaff
03-22-2011, 12:09 AM
If Jake's body can no longer realistically sustain the jerking throwing motion (without series of injuries) maybe its time to start learning knuckleball , changeup, other junk pitches, so as to utilize those Cy Young smarts for long haul. Have him call up Freddy Garcia and get some tips on the transition.

LoveYourSuit
03-22-2011, 12:38 AM
We're categorizing Albert Belle's White Sox contract as one of the worsts investments? Dude had two years in Chicago. In '97 he was an All-Star, and in '98 he had one of the best offensive seasons in franchise history. And he missed zero games. The guy was a jerk and one dimensional, but his performance while in Chicago was nothing short of outstanding.


I ddn't mean Belle sucked. It's the impact or lack there of the move made for the team physiologically when basically JR broke the bank to get this guy. It was the first time in our lifetimes the Sox broke the bank for someone in FA and the move did nothing. Huge letdown for the dollars invested.

LoveYourSuit
03-22-2011, 12:58 AM
Well, when Ozzie and Kenny are seemingly on good terms, the writers need to have something to write about, especially when the Sox biggest position battles were a fourth outfielder and 3B between Teahen and Morel.

This is a minor setback that is just being magnified because there really is nothing else of interest in Sox camp.


Due to what the circumstances had become and all the hype surrounding the miracle recovery path Peavy was taking and basically everyone had the guy pencilled in to going East with the club as the #5 to start, I have to disagree with you. I think it is news worthy. Not the end of the world or end of the season, but it is headline news material.

We can't have it both ways. Think of all the enjoyment we took to this same media pounding Wood and Prior for so many years. This Peavy situation will not go away until the guy is on that mound throwing 7 innings for us and topping out at 92-94 mph every 5th day.

JermaineDye05
03-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Due to what the circumstances had become and all the hype surrounding the miracle recovery path Peavy was taking and basically everyone had the guy pencilled in to going East with the club as the #5 to start, I have to disagree with you. I think it is news worthy. Not the end of the world or end of the season, but it is headline news material.

We can't have it both ways. Think of all the enjoyment we took to this same media pounding Wood and Prior for so many years. This Peavy situation will not go away until the guy is on that mound throwing 7 innings for us and topping out at 92-94 mph every 5th day.

Maybe I misspoke. I'm not trying to say it's not news. Rather, it's just being blown out of proportion.

Dan H
03-22-2011, 08:14 AM
Dark Clouds vs. Pollyanna's. Where do I stand? He's been a workhorse, he has an odd motion, he suffered a unique injury, his career arrow seems to be pointing down. You'd have to stick your head in the sand not to be very concerned. And I am.

I agree with this. You don't have to be a so-called Dark Cloud to be concerned. I will stay concerned until Peavy is able to take his regular spot in the rotation. The rest of the rotation has me concerned as well.

doublem23
03-22-2011, 08:37 AM
I agree with this. You don't have to be a so-called Dark Cloud to be concerned. I will stay concerned until Peavy is able to take his regular spot in the rotation. The rest of the rotation has me concerned as well.

OK, well that's the definition of being a dark cloud, despite whatever you want to call it.

Harry Chappas
03-22-2011, 09:33 AM
My bigger concern with Peavy isn't so much his health or lackthereof but rather pedestrian numbers last season when healthy.

Other than a brief glimpse we got in late 2009, we haven't seen the Cy Young version of Peavy.

I'm not sure he'll ever be the ace he was, but it'd be nice if he worked his way back and became a solid 2 or 3.

SI1020
03-22-2011, 09:33 AM
OK, well that's the definition of being a dark cloud, despite whatever you want to call it. You're a dark cloud to be concerned about Peavy? I guess that makes two of us.

doublem23
03-22-2011, 09:53 AM
You're a dark cloud to be concerned about Peavy? I guess that makes two of us.

Not so much that, but then adding you're concerned about the rest of the rotation, as well.

There's nothing wrong with being a dark cloud, just call it what it is.

DirtySox
03-22-2011, 01:30 PM
Peavy might be limited to 60 pitches an outing initially when he returns to the rotation:


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/03/white-soxs-jake-peavy-likely-limited-to-60-pitches-into-may-surgeon-says/1?csp=34sports&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+USA%3A&utm_content=Twitter

delben91
03-22-2011, 01:38 PM
Peavy might be limited to 60 pitches an outing when he returns to the rotation:


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/03/white-soxs-jake-peavy-likely-limited-to-60-pitches-into-may-surgeon-says/1?csp=34sports&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+USA%3A&utm_content=Twitter

Just for the sake of clarity...the article says 60 pitches/outing through May, not forever.

DirtySox
03-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Just for the sake of clarity...the article says 60 pitches/outing through May, not forever.

Indeed. I thought that was implied. I'll edit it anyhow.

LoveYourSuit
03-22-2011, 02:34 PM
Peavy might be limited to 60 pitches an outing initially when he returns to the rotation:


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/03/white-soxs-jake-peavy-likely-limited-to-60-pitches-into-may-surgeon-says/1?csp=34sports&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+USA%3A&utm_content=Twitter

Then he needs to stay in AAA until he can give this team 90+ every fifth day. 60 pitches will get the Sox 4 innings every 5 th day and tax the crap out of the bullpen. No thanks.

DirtySox
03-22-2011, 02:36 PM
Then he needs to stay in AAA until he can give this team 90+ every fifth day. 60 pitches will get the Sox 4 innings every 5 th day and tax the crap out of the bullpen. No thanks.

Agreed.

Lip Man 1
03-22-2011, 04:52 PM
Tribune reporting Peavy played catch today and reported no problems. Said his shoulder feels a lot better and that the anti-inflammatory medicine is helping.

Expects to miss "three of four" starts, which means extended spring training for two weeks, 15 day DL, probably see him called up in late April.

Lip

Red Barchetta
03-22-2011, 05:49 PM
Tribune reporting Peavy played catch today and reported no problems. Said his shoulder feels a lot better and that the anti-inflammatory medicine is helping.

Expects to miss "three of four" starts, which means extended spring training for two weeks, 15 day DL, probably see him called up in late April.

Lip


Good, I really don't want to see his shoulder/lat muscle on the mound until it gets warmer!

Lip Man 1
03-22-2011, 06:06 PM
Here's the story:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/03/peavy-plays-five-minutes-of-catch.html

Meanwhile over at Chicago Tribune Live! the subject is "who is to blame for Peavy's injury..."

:rolleyes:

Some folks are acting like this is a serious injury...amazing.

Lip

soltrain21
03-22-2011, 06:18 PM
Here's the story:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/03/peavy-plays-five-minutes-of-catch.html

Meanwhile over at Chicago Tribune Live! the subject is "who is to blame for Peavy's injury..."

:rolleyes:

Some folks are acting like this is a serious injury...amazing.

Lip

Mark Teahen.

jdm2662
03-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Here's the story:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/03/peavy-plays-five-minutes-of-catch.html

Meanwhile over at Chicago Tribune Live! the subject is "who is to blame for Peavy's injury..."

:rolleyes:

Some folks are acting like this is a serious injury...amazing.

Lip

It's amazing you are able to watch that show. Just the look of David Kaplan makes puke, let alone change the channel.

Lip Man 1
03-22-2011, 07:33 PM
JDM:

I actually tape it everyday then scan through it. We had a power outage which screwed everything up so I had to reset stuff and had it on the TV for a minute or so.

Lip

BainesHOF
03-22-2011, 11:59 PM
Peavy's interview on Monday was astounding. It was five to 10 minutes of double talk and gibberish. I've never heard someone make no sense and say absolutely nothing for so long. He was putting words together but they didn't add up to anything. It was bizarre.

At this point, I seriously question his intelligence, on and off the field. I'm actually now surprised that he's made it this far in his career.

The Sox needed to take better control of this guy because it's pretty clear at this point that he can't handle himself. So far they've completely botched handling him since the trade. He's now come back from injury too early twice now. It's a reckless way to handle such a big investment.

JermaineDye05
03-23-2011, 12:06 AM
Peavy's interview on Monday was astounding. It was five to 10 minutes of double talk and gibberish. I've never heard someone make no sense and say absolutely nothing for so long. He was putting words together but they didn't add up to anything. It was bizarre.



I didn't think much of the interview. The guy's probably been fielding the same questions over and over for the past 72 hours.

I mean, how are you supposed to answer a question like

"How do you know what's normal soreness and what's not?"


At this point, I seriously question his intelligence, on and off the field. I'm actually now surprised that he's made it this far in his career.



Really? Watch video from his years in San Diego. I think you'll understand better then.

DonnieDarko
03-23-2011, 12:31 AM
Peavy's interview on Monday was astounding. It was five to 10 minutes of double talk and gibberish. I've never heard someone make no sense and say absolutely nothing for so long. He was putting words together but they didn't add up to anything. It was bizarre.

At this point, I seriously question his intelligence, on and off the field. I'm actually now surprised that he's made it this far in his career.

The Sox needed to take better control of this guy because it's pretty clear at this point that he can't handle himself. So far they've completely botched handling him since the trade. He's now come back from injury too early twice now. It's a reckless way to handle such a big investment.

Where can this interview be seen?

soltrain21
03-23-2011, 12:33 AM
Peavy's interview on Monday was astounding. It was five to 10 minutes of double talk and gibberish. I've never heard someone make no sense and say absolutely nothing for so long. He was putting words together but they didn't add up to anything. It was bizarre.

At this point, I seriously question his intelligence, on and off the field. I'm actually now surprised that he's made it this far in his career.

The Sox needed to take better control of this guy because it's pretty clear at this point that he can't handle himself. So far they've completely botched handling him since the trade. He's now come back from injury too early twice now. It's a reckless way to handle such a big investment.

Did he say, "I wash myself with a rag on a stick." or something?

JermaineDye05
03-23-2011, 12:50 AM
Where can this interview be seen?

I don't know if there's a video of it. They played it on B&B the other day. You can find a podcast of it on their website.

Did he say, "I wash myself with a rag on a stick." or something?

:rolling:

jSJQEl5vcAo

In seriousness, Jake just basically said "You have to listen to your body" about 50 million times, but like I said, how are you supposed to answer the same question you keep hearing over and over?

gobears1987
03-23-2011, 02:30 AM
This is really being blown out of proportion. Peavy's surgeon has been monitoring this situation and said in every interview before this happened that there would be a setback. He just didn't know when. Well it happened and to be honest, this isn't a big deal. We all got our hopes up because the setback didn't happen as quickly as we feared it would and thought Peavy would be ready by early April. Well he won't be, but he's only missing 3 or 4 starts. This isn't a big deal. His soreness shouldn't be too concerning if the doctors and trainers are clearing him to throw. If they completely shut him down, then I'd start worrying.

34rancher
03-23-2011, 06:58 AM
Peavy's interview on Monday was astounding. It was five to 10 minutes of double talk and gibberish. I've never heard someone make no sense and say absolutely nothing for so long. He was putting words together but they didn't add up to anything. It was bizarre.

At this point, I seriously question his intelligence, on and off the field. I'm actually now surprised that he's made it this far in his career.

The Sox needed to take better control of this guy because it's pretty clear at this point that he can't handle himself. So far they've completely botched handling him since the trade. He's now come back from injury too early twice now. It's a reckless way to handle such a big investment.

It's obvious you never listened to Terry Bevington or Wanny.

As per Jake, the day we got him I was (and still am) one of like 5 people who didn't want him or the trade to happen. I just am not a fan of his. He says a lot of good things but he just has never impressed me as a pitcher. I really hope they consider letting Sale start, and just be prepared that Jake starts at most 5-10 games. Time to move on to a backup all in plan.

DonnieDarko
03-23-2011, 07:18 AM
It's obvious you never listened to Terry Bevington or Wanny.

As per Jake, the day we got him I was (and still am) one of like 5 people who didn't want him or the trade to happen. I just am not a fan of his. He says a lot of good things but he just has never impressed me as a pitcher. I really hope they consider letting Sale start, and just be prepared that Jake starts at most 5-10 games. Time to move on to a backup all in plan.

My bad for making this a :hijacked:. I'll try to be quick. :P

I know that we eventually have let him start, but the more I think about it, the more I'm against it. I mean, with that motion of his...yeah, yeah, I know that people are going to get all over my back that a quirky motion doesn't mean that you WILL get injured, but pitching with the inverted W motion does increase your likelyhood of getting injured very much (see: Mark Prior, Stephen Strausburg, Adam Wainright (I'm sure I butchered spelling the last two)).

The more that I think about it, the more I think that he's destined for the bullpen. I HOPE he becomes a starter and doesn't injure himself of course, but something tells me that's not in the cards for him.

gobears1987
03-23-2011, 09:20 AM
It's obvious you never listened to Terry Bevington or Wanny.

As per Jake, the day we got him I was (and still am) one of like 5 people who didn't want him or the trade to happen. I just am not a fan of his. He says a lot of good things but he just has never impressed me as a pitcher. I really hope they consider letting Sale start, and just be prepared that Jake starts at most 5-10 games. Time to move on to a backup all in plan.

So his surgeon before spring training said he expected Jake would be able to start in the neighborhood of 20 games. Why should you expect Jake to start only 5-10?

:darkclouds:

Hitmen77
03-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Did he say, "I wash myself with a rag on a stick." or something?

:roflmao:

That literally made me laugh out loud.

Lip Man 1
03-23-2011, 11:26 AM
"Tendinitis is not an unusual event for pitchers in spring training, especially considering Jake went six months without throwing (live) compared to the usual three. It's why spring training is six weeks.'' -- Dr. Tony Romeo the surgeon who operated on Peavy.

-------------------------------------------------

Some folks need to relax a little bit in my opinion over this. At this point in time, given the information at this time it's NOT that big of a deal.

Lip

gobears1987
03-23-2011, 12:48 PM
"Tendinitis is not an unusual event for pitchers in spring training, especially considering Jake went six months without throwing (live) compared to the usual three. It's why spring training is six weeks.'' -- Dr. Tony Romeo the surgeon who operated on Peavy.

-------------------------------------------------

Some folks need to relax a little bit in my opinion over this. At this point in time, given the information at this time it's NOT that big of a deal.

Lip
Agreed. I'm actually glad that Jake will be pushing his start back 3 weeks or so if just to give him more time to build muscle on that arm. It will make him more effective and reliable when he gets back to the mound.

Lip Man 1
03-23-2011, 01:00 PM
David Haugh with a very sober, rational look at all this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0323-haugh-jake-peavy-white-so20110322,0,922880.column

Lip

gobears1987
03-23-2011, 01:39 PM
David Haugh with a very sober, rational look at all this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0323-haugh-jake-peavy-white-so20110322,0,922880.column

Lip

A rational column is very rare in Chicago's sports media. I have to applaud him.

BainesHOF
03-23-2011, 04:29 PM
It's obvious you never listened to Terry Bevington or Wanny.

LOL! I actually thought about Bevington, but on Monday Peavy actually exceeded Bevington's ridiculousness. I don't have any faith in Peavy's mental capabilities at this point.

Haugh's column, as usual I might add, sucked. Rick Morrissey's Sun-Times column nailed the situation:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4460769-419/jake-peavy-hurt-team-himself-with-attempt-to-break-camp-with-sox.html

Lip Man 1
03-23-2011, 04:47 PM
Baines:

With respect I disagree.

Lip

gobears1987
03-23-2011, 05:04 PM
LOL! I actually thought about Bevington, but on Monday Peavy actually exceeded Bevington's ridiculousness. I don't have any faith in Peavy's mental capabilities at this point.

Haugh's column, as usual I might add, sucked. Rick Morrissey's Sun-Times column nailed the situation:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4460769-419/jake-peavy-hurt-team-himself-with-attempt-to-break-camp-with-sox.html

I fail to see how Morrissey nailed the situation (then again when has he or any Sun Times columnist done that)?

Morrissey's point is that Peavy hurt the team by trying to break camp with the Sox. Well if Peavy wasn't doing that, his return would be late April after missing 4 starts or so. OK, well let me ask you this question. When is Peavy's return expected to occur according to the doctors and everyone around him? Well that would be the exact same point that was originally pegged for him. As you can see, Morrissey has no point and is just trying to make controversy out of nothing. I can see why he's no longer employed by the Tribune (which has a few respectable writers left).

Lip Man 1
03-23-2011, 06:18 PM
Kenny Williams however is very encouraged by Peavy's prognosis according to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/sports/cbsports-williams-encouraged-by-peavys-progress-but-will-opt-for-12-pitchers-20110323,0,933778.story?track=rss

Nothing different apparently, he'll continue to throw, work through the soreness and the Sox will bring him up as soon as he is ready.

Lip

JermaineDye05
03-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Kenny Williams however is very encouraged by Peavy's prognosis according to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/sports/cbsports-williams-encouraged-by-peavys-progress-but-will-opt-for-12-pitchers-20110323,0,933778.story?track=rss

Nothing different apparently, he'll continue to throw, work through the soreness and the Sox will bring him up as soon as he is ready.

Lip

It would be interesting to see if this leads to Ozzie vs. Kenny part II.

gobears1987
03-24-2011, 12:53 AM
It would be interesting to see if this leads to Ozzie vs. Kenny part II.

It won't, but media morons like Cowley and Rogers will try to make it look like that.

JermaineDye05
03-24-2011, 12:56 AM
It won't, but media morons like Cowley and Rogers will try to make it look like that.

That's what I was referring to actually. I should have been more clear.

delben91
03-24-2011, 09:59 AM
An MRI done Wednesday showed nothing beyond tendinitis which will be treated with anti-inflammatories. Hoping to be throwing off a mound by next Monday if there are no other issues.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6251978)

JermaineDye05
03-24-2011, 10:11 AM
An MRI done Wednesday showed nothing beyond tendinitis which will be treated with anti-inflammatories. Hoping to be throwing off a mound by next Monday if there are no other issues.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6251978)

I'd still like to hold him back until May.

delben91
03-24-2011, 10:13 AM
I'd still like to hold him back until May.

In his interview yesterday, KW said the target date is 1 May for his return. Think that's the way to go, and if Peavy's ready before then, great.

FielderJones
03-24-2011, 10:15 AM
That Morrisey column is the standard anti-Sox fare I've come to expect from that douchebag.

SI1020
03-24-2011, 12:24 PM
That Morrisey column is the standard anti-Sox fare I've come to expect from that douchebag. There did seem to be some unnecessary invective in the article, but I have to say I agree with the gist of it. Peavy looked hurt to me quite a few starts before he blew out his latissimus dorsi. At this point, his future looks very iffy at best, a view that will win me no friends. I'm not saying he won't return to form, I just wouldn't count on it.

34rancher
03-25-2011, 06:18 AM
So his surgeon before spring training said he expected Jake would be able to start in the neighborhood of 20 games. Why should you expect Jake to start only 5-10?

:darkclouds:

Just a hunch. I was never on board with Jake. I think he's a good enough guy, I've always felt he was overrated coming out of the NL. I havent really been that impressed with him over the years. I hope I'm wrong, I just think he would have fit in better on the cubs. The high k guys from California who unexplically do worse in Chicago through injuries or sudden drops in velocity. No medical reason, just not on bandwagon. I thought we gave up too much to get him, and will look back at Jake a frustrated head scratcher. I'm really more intrigued and hoping more for Edwin to take over.

DirtySox
03-25-2011, 09:38 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/DertyFoot/skanberg.jpg

http://smellslikemascot.blogspot.com/2011/03/cone.html

Bobby Thigpen
03-25-2011, 10:01 AM
Why is it people want guys to tough it out and be tough, until it involves a pitcher or QB?

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-25-2011, 10:41 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/DertyFoot/skanberg.jpg

http://smellslikemascot.blogspot.com/2011/03/cone.html

I miss The Palehose. :whiner:

Lip Man 1
03-25-2011, 11:13 AM
34:

Anything of course is possible but even if Jake never pitches a game again for the Sox, I disagree with your notion that the Sox "gave up" to much for him.

They gave up four guys, three of whom haven't done squat in the big leagues, the 4th benefited from pitching in the best pitchers park in baseball and whom when he was with the Sox usually couldn't get out of the 5th inning, gave up three or four runs in that time and had an ERA of over five.

No disrespect to Richard but the Sox don't need those numbers even for a 5th starter.

Lip

JohnTucker0814
03-25-2011, 11:30 AM
34:

Anything of course is possible but even if Jake never pitches a game again for the Sox, I disagree with your notion that the Sox "gave up" to much for him.

They gave up four guys, three of whom haven'r dont squat in the big leagues, the 4th benefited from pitching in the best pitchers park in baseball and whom when he was with the Sox usually couldn't get out of the 5th inning, gave up three or four runs in that time and had an ERA of over five.

No disrespect to Richard but the Sox don't need those numbers even for a 5th starter.

Lip

Plus the sox probably have insurance so if he's injured we recoup some $$$$ unlike paying $20M for a player to have them perform horribly.

Lip Man 1
03-25-2011, 11:39 AM
John:

I don't know exactly what the situation on insurance for players is, so I don't know if they do or not. Again it's certainly possible

DirtySox
03-25-2011, 11:52 AM
No disrespect to Richard but the Sox don't need those numbers even for a 5th starter.

Can pitchers not improve over time? Especially rookie pitchers? I'd wager Clayton outpitches at least 2 starters from the Sox rotation this year.

voodoochile
03-25-2011, 11:55 AM
Can pitchers not improve over time? Especially rookie pitchers? I'd wager Clayton outpitches at least 2 starters from the Sox rotation this year.

Ah but would he get the same results pitching in the ALC that he does pitching in the NLW?

Me thinks not...

SI1020
03-25-2011, 11:56 AM
34:

Anything of course is possible but even if Jake never pitches a game again for the Sox, I disagree with your notion that the Sox "gave up" to much for him.

They gave up four guys, three of whom haven't done squat in the big leagues, the 4th benefited from pitching in the best pitchers park in baseball and whom when he was with the Sox usually couldn't get out of the 5th inning, gave up three or four runs in that time and had an ERA of over five.

No disrespect to Richard but the Sox don't need those numbers even for a 5th starter.

Lip Even if Richard never pitches another decent game San Diego still got more out of him than the White Sox did. The same with Daniel Hudson in Arizona. Why are the White Sox so consistently lousy at developing their young talent?

DirtySox
03-25-2011, 12:01 PM
Ah but would he get the same results pitching in the ALC that he does pitching in the NLW?

Me thinks not...

The NLW is no cakewalk. Giants, Rockies, Dodgers? We can also take into consideration league adjustment and ERA+ for park factors.

The league argument is such a terrible cop-out of a defense.

Lip Man 1
03-25-2011, 12:22 PM
Dirty:

Well then all I can go on is his numbers in his time with the Sox and they weren't very good were they? Anything's possible...he could have gotten better over time with the Sox and it's also possible he could have gotten much worse...think Scott Ruffcorn or Rodney Bolton for example.

I think it was worth the risk but that's just me.

Lip

soltrain21
03-25-2011, 12:29 PM
Dirty:

Well then all I can go on is his numbers in his time with the Sox and they weren't very good were they? Anything's possible...he could have gotten better over time with the Sox and it's also possible he could have gotten much worse...think Scott Ruffcorn or Rodney Bolton for example.

I think it was worth the risk but that's just me.

Lip

He was a rookie.

DirtySox
03-25-2011, 12:30 PM
Dirty:

Well then all I can go on is his numbers in his time with the Sox and they weren't very good were they? Anything's possible...he could have gotten better over time with the Sox and it's also possible he could have gotten much worse...think Scott Ruffcorn or Rodney Bolton for example.

I think it was worth the risk but that's just me.

Lip


I also think the trade was worth the risk and I have no issues with it. I just think too often prospects who don't have immediate success around here are written off, and thereby marginalized even when successful with other teams.

The Sox have cast off some clunkers, but they have lost some players with value as well.

JermaineDye05
03-25-2011, 12:36 PM
I also think the trade was worth the risk and I have no issues with it. I just think too often prospects who don't have immediate success around here are written off, and thereby marginalized even when successful with other teams.

The Sox have cast off some clunkers, but they have lost some players with value as well.

I miss Gio Gonzalez. He's really turned into quite a pitcher with the A's.

Corlose 15
03-25-2011, 12:50 PM
I'd still like to hold him back until May.

I understand the concern behind this thinking but it irks me when people say that. Jake's got to keep throwing and start pitching for the Sox when he's ready. Having a hard deadline in a situation like this is a mistake IMO. He needs to see what his shoulder can do and the only way he can do that is to keep throwing so he can continue to build up strength and decrease his recovery time. If he's with the Sox in mid-April it's not because they're rushing him, it's because he's at the point where he can contribute.

If you say we're going to hold you back, then he's not going to recover as well because he's not going to confront his injury. This tendinitis was just a temporary setback where his shoulder told him what he could and could not do.

Lip Man 1
03-25-2011, 01:09 PM
Dirty:

You offer a fair and valid point. My only response would be that if you go back over the entire tenure of Kenny Williams as G.M. with regards to minor league prospects he has traded away, the number of guys who did nothing at the major league level far outweighs those who did. And there isn't any team in baseball who can say that they've never traded a prospect who in time came back to make them look bad.

I think part of Kenny's philosophical approach to all this is at least partially based on the fact that White Sox fans (by and large) expect their team to be competitive every season. Youngsters take time to learn at the big league level and that can be detrimental to the overall ability of a team to challenge for the postseason. Put another way, "time" is a luxury Kenny doesn't have.

Lip

voodoochile
03-25-2011, 03:01 PM
The NLW is no cakewalk. Giants, Rockies, Dodgers? We can also take into consideration league adjustment and ERA+ for park factors.

The league argument is such a terrible cop-out of a defense.

LOL check the stats that division is by far the weakest offensive division in the majors.

soltrain21
03-25-2011, 03:12 PM
LOL check the stats that division is by far the weakest offensive division in the majors.

You still have to pitch. They are major league ballplayers who will hit bad pitchers hard.

DirtySox
03-27-2011, 01:28 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales
Peavy will stay in AZ for a week, rejoin team on April 7, then need probably 3-4 rehab starts
55 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales/status/52074189087191040)

JermaineDye05
03-27-2011, 01:37 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales
Peavy will stay in AZ for a week, rejoin team on April 7, then need probably 3-4 rehab starts
55 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MDGonzales/status/52074189087191040)

Makes sense. Pretty much keeps him on a spring schedule. Let's hope they keep him on the 3-4 rehab starts. I don't want to see him up here earlier because he was dominating AAA hitters in his first start. Play it safe. We don't need him in April.

gobears1987
03-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Makes sense. Pretty much keeps him on a spring schedule. Let's hope they keep him on the 3-4 rehab starts. I don't want to see him up here earlier because he was dominating AAA hitters in his first start. Play it safe. We don't need him in April.

I agree. The AAA starts shouldn't be to see how he is doing as a pitcher so much as to let him build strength and endurance.

Tragg
03-27-2011, 03:48 PM
My only response would be that if you go back over the entire tenure of Kenny Williams as G.M. with regards to minor league prospects he has traded away, the number of guys who did nothing at the major league level far outweighs those who did. And there isn't any team in baseball who can say that they've never traded a prospect who in time came back to make them look bad.
That's almost always going to be true. Prospects are prospects.
What have the players he traded the prospects for done?

Lip Man 1
03-27-2011, 06:20 PM
Tragg:

A hell of a lot more...LIGHT YEARS more, than the kids "might" have done.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

One World Series title, two playoff appearances and seven winning seasons in ten years doesn't happen with "can't miss kids."

I'll take a guy who has proven himself at the major league level practically 99% of the time over a "prospect" regardless of how highly touted he is.

Lip

JermaineDye05
03-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Peavy scheduled to throw 3 innings in a Minor League game on Tues 5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/52429642375766016) via Twitter for BlackBerry® (http://blackberry.com/twitter)
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/934235221/Maria2_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/scottmerkin)
scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/scottmerkin)
Scott Merkin

Seems kinda early, but if Herm and the other doctors said okay, then go for it.

TomBradley72
03-28-2011, 04:40 PM
You still have to pitch. They are major league ballplayers who will hit bad pitchers hard.

Clayton Richard's home ERA was 3.15 last year vs. 4.41 on the road- that road ERA is probably a lot closer to his AL ERA or US Cellular ERA than what he has done at Petco.

voodoochile
03-28-2011, 04:41 PM
You still have to pitch. They are major league ballplayers who will hit bad pitchers hard.

Just not as hard as the guys in the ALC will.

Way to move the goalposts...

JorgeFabregas
03-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Even if Richard never pitches another decent game San Diego still got more out of him than the White Sox did. The same with Daniel Hudson in Arizona. Why are the White Sox so consistently lousy at developing their young talent?
The Sox did just fine developing Dan Hudson. They basically sent Arizona a major league-ready pitcher after about 1 season in the minors.

LoveYourSuit
03-28-2011, 11:43 PM
The Sox did just fine developing Dan Hudson. They basically sent Arizona a major league-ready pitcher after about 1 season in the minors.

Is this the first of the "Dan Hudson to th HOF" posts of the 2011 season? I thought we would see this one when Jackson walks his first guy this year. Came a bit early.

DirtySox
03-28-2011, 11:48 PM
Is this the first of the "Dan Hudson to th HOF" posts of the 2011 season? I thought we would see this one when Jackson walks his first guy this year. Came a bit early.

I saw no such claim. You are the one bringing the hyperbole.

LoveYourSuit
03-28-2011, 11:58 PM
I saw no such claim. You are the one bringing the hyperbole.

I saw it is as just another one of those jabs at Kenny for the trade.

Excuse me for interpreting it that way.

doublem23
03-29-2011, 08:39 AM
Just not as hard as the guys in the ALC will.

Way to move the goalposts...

You're the only one moving goalposts around to conveniently fit your argument, Hudson pitched well in Arizona, OF COURSE HE DID, because the NL West is terrible and the AL Central is the most amazing division in baseball.

P.S., the AL Central sucks. Really bad. This is a pretty bad division, too, let's not get too full of ourselves.

soltrain21
03-29-2011, 08:57 AM
Just not as hard as the guys in the ALC will.

Way to move the goalposts...

How did I move the goalposts by saying these are major league players who are going to hit bad pitching?

cws05champ
03-29-2011, 09:05 AM
Tragg:

A hell of a lot more...LIGHT YEARS more, than the kids "might" have done.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

One World Series title, two playoff appearances and seven winning seasons in ten years doesn't happen with "can't miss kids."

I'll take a guy who has proven himself at the major league level practically 99% of the time over a "prospect" regardless of how highly touted he is.

Lip
C'mon Lip, these blanket statements are what's wrong here. Yes, in general guys who have proven it in the majors will more than likely give you more than an unknown prospect. Last year, would you have taken Mark Kotsay over Mike Stanton, Jason Heyward, Buster Posey, Austin Jackson, Gaby Sanchez, Logan Morrison or Starlin Castro? All highly touted prospects albeit not available to the Sox.

And I'm not just singling you out on blanket statements...I'm talking about the statements like:
"Richard and Hudson can't pitch in the AL"
"Richard and Hudson couldn't hack it with the pressure on"

These are common assertions on here of our young guys that were traded away to marginalize them and to defend KW who in general has had a great track record of trading away prospects that become nothing(as you stated). I don't think we have enough data yet to prove whether the Peavy and Jackson trades were good or bad yet. If the Sox drive deep into the playoffs with Peavy and Jackson then you have to say they were somewhat of a success. If they don't make the playoffs and Jackson leaves as a FA, and Hudson goes on to become a #1(which I doubt)...then it was bad.

voodoochile
03-29-2011, 10:27 AM
You're the only one moving goalposts around to conveniently fit your argument, Hudson pitched well in Arizona, OF COURSE HE DID, because the NL West is terrible and the AL Central is the most amazing division in baseball.

P.S., the AL Central sucks. Really bad. This is a pretty bad division, too, let's not get too full of ourselves.

Okay first off I was talking about Richards, not Hudson.

Second, yes the ALC isn't great, but the offensive talent is solid and that was the point I was trying to make. Check the runs scored in the ALC and the NLW last year check the teams and where they rank in terms of MLB just in terms of OFFENSE, not over all ability.

Get back to me when you understand the point I've been making.

How did I move the goalposts by saying these are major league players who are going to hit bad pitching?

Because my point was that the NLW does not have similar offensive talent as the ALC, not even close and that it contributed to Richards' successful numbers.

You then replied "major league players who are going to hit bad pitching". Since my point was that there are better hitters in the ALC than in the NLW (something I thought was fairly obvious) to point out that the players in the NLW still play major league baseball is changing the discussion (or as I said, moving the goal posts).

I note you didn't respond to the first part of my reply which reiterated the point I was making that the ALC has better hitters and offensive ability top to bottom than the NLW does.

I'll concede your point that major league hitters will hit bad pitching. Though I never claimed Richards was a bad pitcher (or Hudson either), merely that their numbers might be inflated (or deflated in the case of ERA) by pitching in the division they pitched in and that they wouldn't be as good in the ALC.

Now if that's a discussion you want to have please feel free to reply...

Lip Man 1
03-29-2011, 11:23 AM
CWS05:

Which is why I said "99%"... of course there are exceptions. The problem is the Sox never seem to get those guys do they?

Would I trade Beckham, no. Would I trade Sale...probably not (depends on the return) but frankly there aren't a whole hell of a lot of guys in the Sox minor league system like that is there?

And more importantly there hasn't been a bunch like that caliber since the early 90's or so.

Lip

asindc
03-29-2011, 11:43 AM
C'mon Lip, these blanket statements are what's wrong here. Yes, in general guys who have proven it in the majors will more than likely give you more than an unknown prospect. Last year, would you have taken Mark Kotsay over Mike Stanton, Jason Heyward, Buster Posey, Austin Jackson, Gaby Sanchez, Logan Morrison or Starlin Castro? All highly touted prospects albeit not available to the Sox.

And I'm not just singling you out on blanket statements...I'm talking about the statements like:
"Richard and Hudson can't pitch in the AL"
"Richard and Hudson couldn't hack it with the pressure on"

These are common assertions on here of our young guys that were traded away to marginalize them and to defend KW who in general has had a great track record of trading away prospects that become nothing(as you stated). I don't think we have enough data yet to prove whether the Peavy and Jackson trades were good or bad yet. If the Sox drive deep into the playoffs with Peavy and Jackson then you have to say they were somewhat of a success. If they don't make the playoffs and Jackson leaves as a FA, and Hudson goes on to become a #1(which I doubt)...then it was bad.

Now that's a point I can agree with. The "wasn't it obvious that Richards (or Hudson) would immediately pitch better upon being traded" argument just does not hold. No, it was certainly was not obvious, especially based on their performances up until the point of being traded.

asindc
03-29-2011, 11:45 AM
CWS05:

Which is why I said "99%"... of course there are exceptions. The problem is the Sox never seem to get those guys do they?

Would I trade Beckham, no. Would I trade Sale...probably not (depends on the return) but frankly there aren't a whole hell of a lot of guys in the Sox minor league system like that is there?

And more importantly there hasn't been a bunch like that caliber since the early 90's or so.

Lip

That is really the crux of the discussion. Some people approach this as if Hudson and Richards were Beckham or Sale (or even Viciedo) good. They were not. That's why the Sox traded them and kept Beckham, Sale, and Viciedo.

JorgeFabregas
03-29-2011, 11:46 AM
I saw it is as just another one of those jabs at Kenny for the trade.

Excuse me for interpreting it that way.
No. I'm not a big fan of that trade, but I think Edwin Jackson will pitch quite well this year.

I was responding to the notion that the Sox aren't developing their pitchers well and thus trade them off only to watch them flourish. Saying that Arizona got more out Daniel Hudson betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how young players--especially pitchers--develop.

Young pitchers should continue to improve and Hudson thrived in the White Sox' system. The learning curve and the room for growth (combined with the low salaries, of course) are the reasons for the cult of youth in baseball.

As for Richard, he was a little unlucky with the White Sox. He's Ked and walked more batters in San Diego because he's throwing harder (not surprising considering Cooper's philosophy privileges control over airing it out). He's basically the same pitcher that he was for the Sox, albeit with his arm strength built up to pitch 200 innings. That the White Sox developed a former college quarterback into a major piece in a trade for a frontline pitcher is a credit to them.

SI1020
03-29-2011, 12:07 PM
That is really the crux of the discussion. Some people approach this as if Hudson and Richards were Beckham or Sale (or even Viciedo) good. They were not. That's why the Sox traded them and kept Beckham, Sale, and Viciedo. You're right. They weren't very good when they were on the Sox. So what happened that allowed them to improve, other than the NLW is just a minor league of sorts.

voodoochile
03-29-2011, 12:13 PM
You're right. They weren't very good when they were on the Sox. So what happened that allowed them to improve, other than the NLW is just a minor league of sorts.

Experience.

soltrain21
03-29-2011, 12:31 PM
That is really the crux of the discussion. Some people approach this as if Hudson and Richards were Beckham or Sale (or even Viciedo) good. They were not. That's why the Sox traded them and kept Beckham, Sale, and Viciedo.

Hudson, so far, has been better than Beckham, Sale and Viciedo - so I'm not really following. And Hudson, in the minors, put up about as good as numbers as you can.

asindc
03-29-2011, 12:41 PM
Hudson, so far, has been better than Beckham, Sale and Viciedo - so I'm not really following. And Hudson, in the minors, put up about as good as numbers as you can.

Not while he was with the Sox. Would you trade either Beckham, Sale, or Viciedo straight up for Hudson?

doublem23
03-29-2011, 12:47 PM
You're right. They weren't very good when they were on the Sox. So what happened that allowed them to improve, other than the NLW is just a minor league of sorts.

Hudson's expansive White Sox career lasted 9 games, 5 starts, and 34 innings. You could pick almost any pitcher, from the upper echelons of the Hall of Fame to guys who only lasted a few years in the Majors, and cherry pick 34 innings of work that are completely not reflective of their skill level.

JermaineDye05
03-29-2011, 01:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6270260

Jake's rehab start went well. No blips so far. Let's see how he feels in a couple days.

#1swisher
03-29-2011, 01:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6270260

Jake's rehab start went well. No blips so far. Let's see how he feels in a couple days.

Gonzales tweets (http://twitter.com/MDGonzales) pbp

BringHomeDaBacon
03-29-2011, 01:57 PM
Okay first off I was talking about Richards, not Hudson.

Second, yes the ALC isn't great, but the offensive talent is solid and that was the point I was trying to make. Check the runs scored in the ALC and the NLW last year check the teams and where they rank in terms of MLB just in terms of OFFENSE, not over all ability.

Get back to me when you understand the point I've been making.



Because my point was that the NLW does not have similar offensive talent as the ALC, not even close and that it contributed to Richards' successful numbers.

You then replied "major league players who are going to hit bad pitching". Since my point was that there are better hitters in the ALC than in the NLW (something I thought was fairly obvious) to point out that the players in the NLW still play major league baseball is changing the discussion (or as I said, moving the goal posts).

I note you didn't respond to the first part of my reply which reiterated the point I was making that the ALC has better hitters and offensive ability top to bottom than the NLW does.

I'll concede your point that major league hitters will hit bad pitching. Though I never claimed Richards was a bad pitcher (or Hudson either), merely that their numbers might be inflated (or deflated in the case of ERA) by pitching in the division they pitched in and that they wouldn't be as good in the ALC.

Now if that's a discussion you want to have please feel free to reply...


The problem with your argument is that Richards pitched FOR the worst offensive team in that division. HIS competition was SF, AZ, COL and LAD. The difference between that group and MIN, DET, CLE and KC isn't as large as you make it sound.

voodoochile
03-29-2011, 03:16 PM
The problem with your argument is that Richards pitched FOR the worst offensive team in that division. HIS competition was SF, AZ, COL and LAD. The difference between that group and MIN, DET, CLE and KC isn't as large as you make it sound.

A valid point.

DirtySox
03-29-2011, 03:30 PM
It is Clayton Richard. There is no "s".

SephClone89
03-29-2011, 03:39 PM
It is Clayton Richard. There is no "s".

...Oh.

I honestly had absolutely no idea what player they had been talking about...I couldn't remember a traded pitcher named "Richards." No teal.

DirtySox
03-31-2011, 11:33 AM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
Buehrle on April 6 vs KC, humber to start in pen
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

SI1020
03-31-2011, 01:42 PM
Hudson's expansive White Sox career lasted 9 games, 5 starts, and 34 innings. You could pick almost any pitcher, from the upper echelons of the Hall of Fame to guys who only lasted a few years in the Majors, and cherry pick 34 innings of work that are completely not reflective of their skill level. Living in SC I try to follow Charlotte and Birmingham as much as possible. As I've posted previously I thought Hudson had good enough stuff, but pitched so timidly at the first hint of trouble. Additionally he was mostly a 5 or 6 inning pitcher. I was totally surprised at the success he had in Arizona last year.

doublem23
03-31-2011, 01:51 PM
Living in SC I try to follow Charlotte and Birmingham as much as possible. As I've posted previously I thought Hudson had good enough stuff, but pitched so timidly at the first hint of trouble. Additionally he was mostly a 5 or 6 inning pitcher. I was totally surprised at the success he had in Arizona last year.

The kid's 22-yeard-old, of course he's going to be timid in his first few innings in the Majors, that's natural. I don't blame the Sox their "all in" approach, and I don't blame them for not wanting to putz around waiting for young pitchers' heads to "click," but that doesn't mean we got the better end of the trade and we certainly need to have a complete organizational rehaul if that's the way we're going to be operating. You just can't clean your farm system out and not expect to suffer any reprocussions. If the Sox want to play with the big boys and use prospects as chips to get Major League proven players, that's fine, that's a winning philosophy, but you'd better be able to produce blue chip prospects regularly then, otherwise you're going to find yourself in our situation, with a payroll taxed to its limit and basically no internal help available.

JorgeFabregas
04-01-2011, 02:44 AM
Living in SC I try to follow Charlotte and Birmingham as much as possible. As I've posted previously I thought Hudson had good enough stuff, but pitched so timidly at the first hint of trouble. Additionally he was mostly a 5 or 6 inning pitcher. I was totally surprised at the success he had in Arizona last year.

Surely by the time he got to AA and AAA the Sox were limiting his innings because a big league promotion was imminent.

sox1970
04-08-2011, 08:29 PM
4/8 at Montgomery

3.2 innings
5 hits
2 unearned runs
1 BB
4 K
1 WP

72 pitches, 43 strikes

Hitmen77
04-09-2011, 10:23 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0409-peavy-white-sox-rays-chic20110408,0,3620228.story

Peavy satisfied with start, may start next on Wednesday in Birmingham.

Falstaff
04-10-2011, 05:39 AM
Lets hope he is using this time to polish a few off speed junkers to reduce the explosive wear/tear caused by only doing blazing pitches with jerky motion. How bout a knuckle curve or something?

sox1970
04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
4/13 at Charlotte:

6 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs, 0 BB, 4 K, 1 HR

72 pitches/55 strikes

guillensdisciple
04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
4/13 at Charlotte:

6 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs, 0 BB, 4 K, 1 HR

72 pitches/55 strikes

I'll take it.

thomas35forever
04-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Merkin says Peavy will start on the 18th and 23rd and might start the home game on the 29th.

JermaineDye05
04-13-2011, 08:09 PM
Merkin says Peavy will start on the 18th and 23rd and might start the home game on the 29th.

It feels too soon.

SephClone89
04-13-2011, 08:20 PM
It feels too soon.

I'll leave it to the professionals to decide that.

JermaineDye05
04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
I'll leave it to the professionals to decide that.

Yeah, so will I. I'm just very nervous. So much of this season weighs on Jake. He's going to have to pitch up here sometime though. As long as the medical staff says he's 100%.

JermaineDye05
04-16-2011, 01:06 PM
Looks like #Peavy (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Peavy) could start for the #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) next Thurs in NY or home that Fri against BAL. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey/status/59316250609852416) via web
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1182187329/dork_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey)
ChrisRongey (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey)
Chris Rongey

Still feels soon. As long as the medical staff says he's good.

I just hope this isn't the team getting too anxious because of some early struggles.

sox1970
04-16-2011, 01:38 PM
Looks like #Peavy (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Peavy) could start for the #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox) next Thurs in NY or home that Fri against BAL. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey/status/59316250609852416) via web
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1182187329/dork_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey)
ChrisRongey (http://twitter.com/ChrisRongey)
Chris Rongey

Still feels soon. As long as the medical staff says he's good.

I just hope this isn't the team getting too anxious because of some early struggles.

That's a week from next Thursday. That's another two minor league starts on the 18th and 23rd. He'll be at 100 pitches, and be ready to start for the White Sox on the 28th or 29th.

JermaineDye05
04-16-2011, 01:42 PM
That's a week from next Thursday. That's another two minor league starts on the 18th and 23rd. He'll be at 100 pitches, and be ready to start for the White Sox on the 28th or 29th.

Phew. I thought Rongey meant literally next Thursday. Should have looked at the Sox schedule.

vinny
04-16-2011, 05:17 PM
On the FOX game telecast today they showed video of him and Coop in a bullpen session at the park. He has a rehab start in Birmingham on Monday.

DirtySox
04-18-2011, 07:25 PM
CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini
Peavy throws 15 pitches in the first, .2 IP. Removed from start at AA Birmingham. Uh-oh.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply


:o:

soltrain21
04-18-2011, 07:27 PM
:o:

Ballsacs.

CHISOXFAN13
04-18-2011, 07:33 PM
He got tagged for three runs on four hits. Sounds like Jake was just trying to take after the big club tonight.

Sockinchisox
04-18-2011, 07:39 PM
:o:

Sweet.

Falstaff
04-18-2011, 07:46 PM
I am hoping this does not indicate some kind of re-injury.
I am hoping J got hammered and yanked because he was testing out
off speed junk and spots. Will always hold breath with the jerky violent
delivery. Needs to learn offspeed junk, even a knuckleball.

Nelfox02
04-18-2011, 08:06 PM
I have absolutely no faith in Peavy giving this team anything this year, he may make it up at some point, but just dont see any reason to believe he will last more than a handful of starts before something (shoulder, calf, elbow, alien chest burster explodes from his gut) goes wrong and shelves him

Sargeant79
04-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Crap. Well, that's not good.

sox1970
04-18-2011, 08:12 PM
I have absolutely no faith in Peavy giving this team anything this year, he may make it up at some point, but just dont see any reason to believe he will last more than a handful of starts before something (shoulder, calf, elbow, alien chest burster explodes from his gut) goes wrong and shelves him

Yep. Anything he does this season is gravy. Just have to go on the assumption that he won't come back, and whatever he does is a good surprise.

JermaineDye05
04-18-2011, 08:16 PM
When it rains, it pours.

LoveYourSuit
04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
With all the technology and still no updates?

If Ozzie's kid farts we would be smelling it instantly on twitter. ***!:angry:

JermaineDye05
04-18-2011, 08:19 PM
With all the technology and still no updates?

If Ozzie's kid farts we would be smelling it instantly on twitter. ***!:angry:

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6385512&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines)

Doesn't say much aside from discomfort.

DirtySox
04-18-2011, 08:20 PM
With all the technology and still no updates.



ESPNChiSox Doug Padilla
Peavy left w discomfort. Reevaluated tomorrow
6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

JermaineDye05
04-18-2011, 08:22 PM
Peavy only last 16-pitches in rehab start with Barons. Left in 1st after giving up 3-runs. Suffered an undisclosed injury. 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/dubmeister/status/60150689057341440) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/314516101/mike_wbrc_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/dubmeister)
dubmeister (http://twitter.com/dubmeister)

doublem23
04-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Paint me shocked

Viva Medias B's
04-18-2011, 08:29 PM
Ranger just said on the postgamer that Peavy was removed for shoulder discomfort.

Soxfest
04-18-2011, 08:40 PM
Not Good!

Gammons Peter
04-18-2011, 09:04 PM
Now we can hear him talk about himself as "we" some more. We had some pain so we shut it down, we'll be back doing everything the other guys are doing soon and we'll take it from there.

The Immigrant
04-18-2011, 09:25 PM
Get ready for some towel drills!

BringHomeDaBacon
04-18-2011, 09:26 PM
Shocking that a trade for a pitcher that was on the DL at the time of the trade, spent time on the DL the year before the trade and was still owed $50+ million isn't working out.

Maybe KW can call the Mets and get Johan Santana to replace him.

whitesoxfan1986
04-18-2011, 10:01 PM
Shocking that a trade for a pitcher that was on the DL at the time of the trade, spent time on the DL the year before the trade and was still owed $50+ million isn't working out.

Maybe KW can call the Mets and get Johan Santana to replace him.
Peavy pitched 173 innings in 2008. Not an innings eater but not completely irrelevant either. Jake Peavy is further proof that the NL system of having pitchers hit and run the bases is asinine. I'd guess that if Peavy never injured his ankle in 2009, he never tears his lat because his mechanics are messed up, and the Sox never get him here because some other team would have paid a higher price than what we paid. It was worth the gamble because the Sox haven't had a true ace for more than half a season since Jack McDowell in 1993-94. It seems that KW went to the roulette table, put all his chips on #1(an ace), but the wheel came up with something worse than #5.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2011, 10:12 PM
I read a report (Tribune I think) that said he did not appear to be in any pain as he left the mound. Perhaps he is simply playing it extremely safe after what happened in spring training.

We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

Lip

JermaineDye05
04-18-2011, 10:45 PM
I read a report (Tribune I think) that said he did not appear to be in any pain as he left the mound. Perhaps he is simply playing it extremely safe after what happened in spring training.

We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

Lip

I'm just hoping this is one of the speedbumps that were mentioned.

thomas35forever
04-19-2011, 01:08 AM
Now we know what it was like for Cubs fans to have Mark Prior.

WhiteSox5187
04-19-2011, 01:42 AM
So far almost everything that could go wrong has gone wrong this season

dickallen15
04-19-2011, 06:49 AM
Peavy pitched 173 innings in 2008. Not an innings eater but not completely irrelevant either. Jake Peavy is further proof that the NL system of having pitchers hit and run the bases is asinine. I'd guess that if Peavy never injured his ankle in 2009, he never tears his lat because his mechanics are messed up, and the Sox never get him here because some other team would have paid a higher price than what we paid. It was worth the gamble because the Sox haven't had a true ace for more than half a season since Jack McDowell in 1993-94. It seems that KW went to the roulette table, put all his chips on #1(an ace), but the wheel came up with something worse than #5.

He never tore his lat. It detached.

Hitmen77
04-19-2011, 11:04 AM
Peavy pitched 173 innings in 2008. Not an innings eater but not completely irrelevant either. Jake Peavy is further proof that the NL system of having pitchers hit and run the bases is asinine. I'd guess that if Peavy never injured his ankle in 2009, he never tears his lat because his mechanics are messed up, and the Sox never get him here because some other team would have paid a higher price than what we paid. It was worth the gamble because the Sox haven't had a true ace for more than half a season since Jack McDowell in 1993-94. It seems that KW went to the roulette table, put all his chips on #1(an ace), but the wheel came up with something worse than #5.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the Sox had the deal done with the Padres BEFORE Peavy got injured.

The trade was stopped because Jake invoked his "no trade clause" to reject the trade.....and then he got injured running the bases about a week(??) later. While on the DL, Peavy had a change of heart and the original deal went through.

So, the Sox would have had Peavy for the exact same players before his ankle injury if he had not blocked the trade.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2011, 11:17 AM
Hitmen:

You are correct. Kenny had a deal done in late May of that season.

Lip

whitesoxfan1986
04-19-2011, 12:36 PM
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the Sox had the deal done with the Padres BEFORE Peavy got injured.

The trade was stopped because Jake invoked his "no trade clause" to reject the trade.....and then he got injured running the bases about a week(??) later. While on the DL, Peavy had a change of heart and the original deal went through.

So, the Sox would have had Peavy for the exact same players before his ankle injury if he had not blocked the trade.
Yeah, but he blocked the trade. However, Hudson was in the initial trade rather than Russell, IIRC. The initial trade was Richard/Hudson/Poreda/Carter for Peavy. Those were the Sox 4 best pitching prospects at the time. After Peavy blocked the trade, if he didn't get injured, I'm sure someone would have come up with a better package than the Sox offered at the TD.

whitesoxfan1986
04-19-2011, 12:39 PM
He never tore his lat. It detached.
I stand corrected. I thought that detached meant tearing it off the bone.

WhiffleBall
04-19-2011, 03:16 PM
Peavy has an insurance policy for 70% of his salary that carried over from his Padres contract. It does not say when it kicks in.

http://www.csnchicago.com/04/19/11/Kaplan-Sox-protected-by-insurance-policy/kapman_article.html?blockID=507027&feedID=8487&qv=1#bp

yazz32
04-19-2011, 03:40 PM
Muscle Tenderness irritation in lateral is what MDGonzales is saying

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#!/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales
Peavy muscle tenderness irritation in lat, will miss a start, will resume throwing program in four days, MRI normal

DirtySox
04-19-2011, 03:41 PM
CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini
Peavy resumes throwing FRI, has anti-inflam program 4 six days. Best case pushes MLB return back 2 weeks.
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

soltrain21
04-19-2011, 03:45 PM
CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini
Peavy resumes throwing FRI, has anti-inflam program 4 six days. Best case pushes MLB return back 2 weeks.
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Meh. No longer optimistic about his situation.

Hitmen77
04-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Yeah, but he blocked the trade. However, Hudson was in the initial trade rather than Russell, IIRC. The initial trade was Richard/Hudson/Poreda/Carter for Peavy. Those were the Sox 4 best pitching prospects at the time. After Peavy blocked the trade, if he didn't get injured, I'm sure someone would have come up with a better package than the Sox offered at the TD.

I don't believe that's true. I'm pretty sure it was the same 4 guys the first time around as it was when the trade finally happened on July 31.

KMcMahon817
04-19-2011, 03:56 PM
Peavy has an insurance policy for 70% of his salary that carried over from his Padres contract. It does not say when it kicks in.

http://www.csnchicago.com/04/19/11/Kaplan-Sox-protected-by-insurance-policy/kapman_article.html?blockID=507027&feedID=8487&qv=1#bp

So...does that mean the SOX only had to pay a pro-rated total of Peavy's salary last year? Or does that policy only kick in if he is say, forced to retire?

Carneyman14
04-19-2011, 04:07 PM
:praying:

whitesoxfan1986
04-19-2011, 04:09 PM
I don't believe that's true. I'm pretty sure it was the same 4 guys the first time around as it was when the trade finally happened on July 31.
I'm pretty sure that Hudson was included in the first trade. I'd go back to the archives of WSI and look it up if I had the time.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-19-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm pretty sure that Hudson was included in the first trade. I'd go back to the archives of WSI and look it up if I had the time.

I don't think it was ever fully released on who was included. But I believe Hudson was a part of the deal.

SephClone89
04-19-2011, 04:19 PM
I'm pretty sure that Hudson was included in the first trade. I'd go back to the archives of WSI and look it up if I had the time.

I don't think it was ever fully released on who was included. But I believe Hudson was a part of the deal.

I seem to recall this being the case, as well.

JermaineDye05
04-19-2011, 04:20 PM
Sounds like it was indeed one of the speed bumps that we were told was going to happen during the recovery process.

WhiffleBall
04-20-2011, 08:44 AM
Peavy has an insurance policy for 70% of his salary that carried over from his Padres contract. It does not say when it kicks in.

http://www.csnchicago.com/04/19/11/Kaplan-Sox-protected-by-insurance-policy/kapman_article.html?blockID=507027&feedID=8487&qv=1#bp

The amount of the insurance has been updated to 65% and it kicks in after 45 days. With the way things are going the 45 days might be close to the time Peavy returns. If the 45 day clause does kick in then insurance will pay around $2.5 million of Peavy's salary for the Month of April and the first half of May (Sox will pay around $1.5mil). If he is out until the the all star break then then insurance will cover around $5.2 million of his salary (Sox will pay around $2.8mil).

Of course this does nothing to help us from fan standpoint unless the money is used to better the team. Hopefully we will still be in around the trade deadline and this money can be used to improve the team.

Hitmen77
04-20-2011, 09:14 AM
I'm pretty sure that Hudson was included in the first trade. I'd go back to the archives of WSI and look it up if I had the time.

Daniel Hudson was not eligible to be traded by the White Sox until June 15, 2009 (one year after they signed him as a draft pick). So, he couldn't have been part of the original deal agreed to between the Padres and the Sox in May 2009.

Anyway, my original point was that the Sox HAD a deal done for him before he was injured. If he didn't block the trade it he would have been a member of the Sox and apparently no other team outbid the Sox for an uninjured Peavy when that deal was done.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-20-2011, 11:44 AM
Daniel Hudson was not eligible to be traded by the White Sox until June 15, 2009 (one year after they signed him as a draft pick). So, he couldn't have been part of the original deal agreed to between the Padres and the Sox in May 2009.

Anyway, my original point was that the Sox HAD a deal done for him before he was injured. If he didn't block the trade it he would have been a member of the Sox and apparently no other team outbid the Sox for an uninjured Peavy when that deal was done.

Teams took one look at his numbers away from Petco and the amount left on the contract and said "no thank you".

voodoochile
04-20-2011, 11:46 AM
Daniel Hudson was not eligible to be traded by the White Sox until June 15, 2009 (one year after they signed him as a draft pick). So, he couldn't have been part of the original deal agreed to between the Padres and the Sox in May 2009.

Anyway, my original point was that the Sox HAD a deal done for him before he was injured. If he didn't block the trade it he would have been a member of the Sox and apparently no other team outbid the Sox for an uninjured Peavy when that deal was done.

I believe there was a PTBNL in the original trade and that player was rumored to be Hudson once he became eligible.

slavko
04-20-2011, 01:16 PM
After looking at the various degrees of disaster discussed here I have to ask: Is there an insurance that gets us back Clayton? Not that he's going to set a stolen base record or anything, but that's what this reminds me of. (Brock for Broglio, you young folks)

doublem23
04-20-2011, 01:18 PM
After looking at the various degrees of disaster discussed here I have to ask: Is there an insurance that gets us back Clayton? Not that he's going to set a stolen base record or anything, but that's what this reminds me of. (Brock for Broglio, you young folks)

Why would we want him back

Tragg
04-20-2011, 02:09 PM
Williams is not a particularly good negotiator...same trade when he was on the DL as when he was off the DL (Hudson' wasn't part off the original trade).
And trading a top pitching prospect to rent a pitcher having an off year on a dead team looking to dump salary wasn't a piece of negotiating legerdemain either.
Neither trade has been helpful- we got one production pitcher and $25 mill in salary; neither was the Teehan trade; neither was the Griffey or the Manny trade. Or the Pena trade. or the Flowers trade. None have helped.
His best trades used to be the small ones; his best signings the small signings. When he goes all in, it flops.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2011, 02:18 PM
65% of the deal covered by insurance just made the organization breath a lot easier. It may help explain why they went "all in" this off season. (As far as what's happening now on the field, that's a different matter...)

Lip

TheOldRoman
04-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Williams is not a particularly good negotiator...same trade when he was on the DL as when he was off the DL (Hudson' wasn't part off the original trade).
And trading a top pitching prospect to rent a pitcher having an off year on a dead team looking to dump salary wasn't a piece of negotiating legerdemain either.
Neither trade has been helpful- we got one production pitcher and $25 mill in salary; neither was the Teehan trade; neither was the Griffey or the Manny trade. Or the Pena trade. or the Flowers trade. None have helped.
His best trades used to be the small ones; his best signings the small signings. When he goes all in, it flops.Not surprisingly, you are wrong on pretty much everything. Hudson was included in the first trade as a PTBNL. The Sox didn't trade for Manny Ramirez. As for the rest of it, blah blah blah, his name is Teahen.

dickallen15
04-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Can someone provide a link that states Hudson was included in the original Peavy trade. I don't think he was.

Tragg
04-20-2011, 03:48 PM
Not surprisingly, you are wrong on pretty much everything. Hudson was included in the first trade as a PTBNL. The Sox didn't trade for Manny Ramirez. As for the rest of it, blah blah blah, his name is Teahen.
And as usual, smart-ass comments and little substance.
Yea, you found my spelling error, (and yes a real productive waiver claim wasn't Manny?) but can you address the point of my post and find all of these positive trades out of the bunch, pretty much since I'm "wrong on pretty much everything?"

LoveYourSuit
04-20-2011, 08:37 PM
Just watched Peavy talk on CSN, it just pains me to hear him talk.

One thing I do love about the guy is his push and desire to make it back. With that kind of money in the bank, he truly doesn't need to go thru this.

Gammons Peter
04-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Just watched Peavy talk on CSN, it just pains me to hear him talk.

One thing I do love about the guy is his push and desire to make it back. With that kind of money in the bank, he truly doesn't need to go thru this.


How many times he talk about himself as "we"

We had some pain so we shut it down, we'll be back out there and we'll be doing the same things the rest of the guys are doing soon.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2011, 09:37 PM
"We'll be doing the same things the rest of the guys are doing soon..."

What losing games? Looking completely disinterested?? Playing with the emotionalism of a corpse???

Lip

sullythered
04-20-2011, 09:42 PM
emotionalism

Lip

That word. I do not think that it means what you think it means.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2011, 10:03 PM
Sully:

I know what it means to me and what I'd like to see out of some of these players.

Lip

sullythered
04-20-2011, 10:41 PM
Sully:

I know what it means to me and what I'd like to see out of some of these players.

Lip
I just wanted to use that line from Princess Bride.:D:

Lip Man 1
04-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Sorry. Never saw the movie so I don't know the connection.

:D:

Lip

Hitmen77
04-30-2011, 02:36 PM
While the White Sox continue to flush 2011 down the toilet, Peavy had a good Triple A start yesterday. 85 pitches, 8 Ks.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0430-bits-white-sox-orioles-ch20110429,0,2323307.story

Of course, if the rest of the team doesn't get their heads out of their rears, this won't make much of a difference.