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View Full Version : Astros may need a catcher, how about Flowers


Lamp81
03-06-2011, 09:25 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4137600-419/astros-catcher-castro-may-miss-whole-season.html

Do the Astros have anything we could use for Tyler Flowers? With AJ, Castro, Donny Lucy, Miguel Gonzalez, and Josh Phegley we could part with Flowers.

DirtySox
03-06-2011, 09:39 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4137600-419/astros-catcher-castro-may-miss-whole-season.html

Do the Astros have anything we could use for Tyler Flowers? With AJ, Castro, Donny Lucy, Miguel Gonzalez, and Josh Phegley we could part with Flowers.

The Astros aren't going to part with anything useful in a season where they aren't going to contend. They will play/acquire a marginal stopgap and plug Castro back in once his knee is all fixed. Besides, the Sox wouldn't be in the position to acquire anything noteworthy with Tyler's current trade value.

Lamp81
03-06-2011, 10:07 PM
I realize that Flowers trade value is low. I was thinking of a Borchard for Thornton type trade, where they have a prospect that they are also ready to give up on and we give him a chance.

Maybe Flowers could benefit from a new organization and new coaching.

Lamp81
03-07-2011, 01:54 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/03/the-astros-catching-options.html

I guess I'm not the only one with this thought, although it is said that it is unlikely that the Sox have given up on Flowers.

Maybe a good spring by Flowers will make him attractive as trade bait.

Does anyone still think he has a chance to be our future everyday catcher?

DirtySox
03-07-2011, 02:37 PM
[URL]
Does anyone still think he has a chance to be our future everyday catcher?

Yep, if he fixes his swing and cuts the K-rate to a respectable level. It's probably not a great chance, but the chance is there. He's certainly still ahead of Phegley and Gonzalez on the depth chart as well.

Foulke You
03-07-2011, 04:25 PM
I realize that Flowers trade value is low. I was thinking of a Borchard for Thornton type trade, where they have a prospect that they are also ready to give up on and we give him a chance.

Maybe Flowers could benefit from a new organization and new coaching.
I'd like to hang on to Flowers right now and save him for the trade deadline just in case. Something like an injury or perhaps Morel not being ready for prime time could create a mid-season need for the White Sox in which case, you'll wish you still had Flowers to use as part of a package of prospects to trade to fill a hole. As KW has said in the past, prospects are a form of currency. If you "spend" it now on the Astros, then you might regret it when July 31st rolls around.

SephClone89
03-07-2011, 04:46 PM
I'd like to hang on to Flowers right now and save him for the trade deadline just in case. Something like an injury or perhaps Morel not being ready for prime time could create a mid-season need for the White Sox in which case, you'll wish you still had Flowers to use as part of a package of prospects to trade to fill a hole. As KW has said in the past, prospects are a form of currency. If you "spend" it now on the Astros, then you might regret it when July 31st rolls around.

Well said.

Vestigio
03-07-2011, 05:55 PM
The Astros would be perhaps the only other team whose farm system is worse than the Sox. I'd be surprised if KW would give up on Flowers and trade him for anything that the Astros have to offer

russ99
03-07-2011, 07:53 PM
No thanks. The Astros have Quintero and Towles and don't really need another catcher.

Losing Castro (maybe for the season) is a blow, but why would they stall their rebuild and deal anyone of value for Flowers - who's been a complete disappointment?

That would be a typical Ed Wade move, hope it doesn't happen. The smart move would be to see if someone cut from another club could help out...

Tragg
03-11-2011, 11:47 PM
It's way premature to put Flowers in the Borchard category.

doublem23
03-12-2011, 06:19 AM
It's way premature to put Flowers in the Borchard category.

Yeah, Borchard at least had 1-2 seasons in which he was a quasi-regular.

Ron Karkovice
03-13-2011, 12:24 PM
The White Sox beat the Astros in the 2005 World Series.

Lamp81
03-13-2011, 02:44 PM
The White Sox beat the Astros in the 2005 World Series.

The Dodgers beat the White Sox in 1959, yet that hasn't stopped us from trading with them.

If there was a beneficial deal for both teams, do you really think the Astros hold a grudge over 2005, when they got beat by a clearly superior team?

Ron Karkovice
03-13-2011, 03:47 PM
The Dodgers beat the White Sox in 1959, yet that hasn't stopped us from trading with them.

If there was a beneficial deal for both teams, do you really think the Astros hold a grudge over 2005, when they got beat by a clearly superior team?

That should have been in teal. I just wanted my 880th post to be extra random.

Lamp81
03-13-2011, 10:33 PM
That should have been in teal. I just wanted my 880th post to be extra random.

That makes sense.

I'm glad the White Sox have let 1919 go, or we could have never traded for Konerko.

Noneck
03-13-2011, 10:44 PM
I'm glad the White Sox have let 1919 go, or we could have never traded for Konerko.

Ouch. Thats like looking at a solar eclipse.

chisoxjtrain
03-13-2011, 10:55 PM
That makes sense.

I'm glad the White Sox have let 1919 go, or we could have never traded for Konerko.

:tealtutor:

russ99
03-14-2011, 09:03 AM
The Dodgers beat the White Sox in 1959, yet that hasn't stopped us from trading with them.

If there was a beneficial deal for both teams, do you really think the Astros hold a grudge over 2005, when they got beat by a clearly superior team?

Especially since the front office and all the players are different, only the owner is the same0 since 2005. Besides, Kenny was supposedly going to make a deal with them the next year involving Garland. Only division rivalries can preclude trades, and yet they still happen sometimes.

Also, "clearly superior team" is stretching it. Each of those four games could have easily gone the other way. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

Lamp81
03-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Also, "clearly superior team" is stretching it. Each of those four games could have easily gone the other way. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

Anytime one team sweeps another in a 4 games series, I think they qualify to be considered "clearly superior".

JohnTucker0814
03-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Especially since the front office and all the players are different, only the owner is the same0 since 2005. Besides, Kenny was supposedly going to make a deal with them the next year involving Garland. Only division rivalries can preclude trades, and yet they still happen sometimes.

Also, "clearly superior team" is stretching it. Each of those four games could have easily gone the other way. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

Clemens didn't exactly dominate while he was in the game.

Tragg
03-14-2011, 07:39 PM
Bagwell's injury? How about Thomas' injury?

Bagwell had 100 at bats all season. Pathetic excuse.

Foulke You
03-14-2011, 11:49 PM
Bagwell's injury? How about Thomas' injury?

Bagwell had 100 at bats all season. Pathetic excuse.
Don't forget about Dustin Hermanson's back injury too. The guy was our regular closer for most of the season and had 34 saves. While Dustin was on the playoff roster, he barely pitched because the injury rendered him pretty ineffective and ultimately ended his career shortly after that. I agree with you. Pathetic excuses. Of course, this was the same fanbase that whined the entire World Series about MLB making them keep the roof open for their home games at Minute Maid Park.

TheVulture
03-15-2011, 05:15 PM
It's way premature to put Flowers in the Borchard category.

True, at least Borchard made it all the way to the major league level before he started laying eggs. Flowers still has a ways to go before he can reach that level.

TheVulture
03-15-2011, 08:27 PM
. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

I guess it's bad luck when old geezer steroid users inevitably break down...

With that kind of rationale, the 2005 Sox become even more truly incredible, winning wire to wire in the vastly superior AL before smashing their way through the playoffs, without the rich man's Jeff Bagwell:

:hurt

Remember me? I only averaged a homerun every ten at bats in 2005, but surely if I was healthy in the WS there would have been no benefit to my team.

asindc
03-16-2011, 08:05 AM
Especially since the front office and all the players are different, only the owner is the same0 since 2005. Besides, Kenny was supposedly going to make a deal with them the next year involving Garland. Only division rivalries can preclude trades, and yet they still happen sometimes.

Also, "clearly superior team" is stretching it. Each of those four games could have easily gone the other way. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

A 'raw deal' is when you have a bad call go against you or one of your best players injured in a relatively meaningless game in Sept. when the playoffs are just around the corner. It is not a 'raw deal' when you purposely rely on older, breaking down players way past their prime as major cogs in your championship pursuit. By the way, the Sox that year suffered 'raw deals' in the form of Frank Thomas, Dustin Hermanson, Joe Crede, and Orlando Hernandez all missing signficant time for injuries. Raw deal my ass. The Sox were clearly superior to Houston and everyone else that year.

cws05champ
03-22-2011, 01:13 PM
Anyone notice that Flowers is hitting .476 this spring? I know it's only 21 AB's in Spring training, but lets see how his season plays out at AAA before we write this kid off.

DirtySox
03-22-2011, 01:23 PM
anyone notice that flowers is hitting .476 this spring? I know it's only 21 ab's in spring training, but lets see how his season plays out at aaa before we write this kid off.

+1

Domeshot17
03-22-2011, 07:32 PM
2005 was the perfect storm of almost everything going right. I do not know if anyone could have beat us in 2005, and yet if you played the season out 100 times, we might only win it once or twice.

Steroids aside, its tough to say in 2005 you would take Buehrle-Contreras-Garcia over Oswalt Clemens Pettite....now history tells us Clemens and Pettite were cheaters, but we won many close games in that World Series.

Daver
03-22-2011, 07:42 PM
If they need a catcher why would they want Flowers? It's not something he does well.

Brian26
03-22-2011, 07:55 PM
Also, "clearly superior team" is stretching it. Each of those four games could have easily gone the other way. Some Astros fans (not me) feel like they got a raw deal in the 2005 series due to Clemens and Bagwell's injuries.

Morgan Ensberg was their cleanup hitter and couldn't hit his way out of a paperbag for the entire series....he went something like 2-for-18. Of course, the Sox shut down Vlad and the Angels too. Maybe the Sox were just the best team in baseball. No reason to feel ashamed about that. At least we can say we saw it in our lifetimes.

asindc
03-23-2011, 08:56 AM
2005 was the perfect storm of almost everything going right. I do not know if anyone could have beat us in 2005, and yet if you played the season out 100 times, we might only win it once or twice.

Steroids aside, its tough to say in 2005 you would take Buehrle-Contreras-Garcia over Oswalt Clemens Pettite....now history tells us Clemens and Pettite were cheaters, but we won many close games in that World Series.

As has been noted several times already, not everything went right in 2005. The Sox suffered injuries to several key players throughout the season and had to hold off the hottest 2nd half team in baseball. IMO, there was nothing perfect about that storm except the final result, of course.

Back to Flowers: Some team will get desperate to trade for him, but I believe we are better off keeping him at this point.

mzh
03-23-2011, 06:55 PM
IIRC, people were talking about Viciedo like this too last year. He wasn't coming off nearly as bad a year as Flowers, and even though it was still very much up in the air whether PK would be back for this year, it was the same mentality. People were saying to throw him in as a piece for a big bat, while he was still a decent prospect. Let the next season play out before we crown him a total bust.