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guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 11:12 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6161209

Wow, this guy must be really sore that he sucked last year.

Over By There
02-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Bobby, thanks for some good years on the south side. Now shut the **** up and move on.

russ99
02-26-2011, 11:42 AM
Wow. A week into Spring Training and this guy still is spouting off about his old team?

Can't think the Red Sox have to like that.

Move on Bobby while you still have a gig.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 11:42 AM
His Boston career started 30 minutes ago :tongue:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/02/red-sox-live-blog-boston-to-play-first-games-of-season-in-annual-doubleheader-with-bc-northeastern.html

Viva Medias B's
02-26-2011, 11:51 AM
Watch out for the inevitable Oney knee-jerk tweet!

all*star quentin
02-26-2011, 12:01 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6161209

Wow, this guy must be really sore that he sucked last year.


This is the USA, he's entitled to his opinion of his time with the White Sox. I prefer not to get my info from Oneys' twitter drama.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 12:09 PM
This is the USA, he's entitled to his opinion of his time with the White Sox. I prefer not to get my info from Oneys' twitter drama.


I'm glad this is the US, because I am entitled to my opinion about his opinion and I think he's being an idiot.

TheOldRoman
02-26-2011, 12:11 PM
Well, this is something many of the players are thinking. The dynamic between Ozzie and Kenny, along with Ozzie's lowlife son talking about the team the way he does, has undoubtedly upset some players. I can understand wanting it to end or wanting to get away from it. We shouldn't completely ignore it because it is coming from Bobby.

On the other hand, Bobby needs to just shut up at this point and answer all questions about the White Sox, "I appreciate everything the franchise did for me and my family, I loved my time there, but I am happy to be here now." Now, in addition to more feces from Oney, we will get another cryptic outburst from Ozzie to the tune of, "He needs to shut his mouth. I know a lot of things about him that could ruin him." Fun!

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 12:15 PM
Well, this is something many of the players are thinking. The dynamic between Ozzie and Kenny, along with Ozzie's lowlife son talking about the team the way he does, has undoubtedly upset some players. I can understand wanting it to end or wanting to get away from it. We shouldn't completely ignore it because it is coming from Bobby.

On the other hand, Bobby needs to just shut up at this point and answer all questions about the White Sox, "I appreciate everything the franchise did for me and my family, I loved my time there, but I am happy to be here now." Now, in addition to more feces from Oney, we will get another cryptic outburst from Ozzie to the tune of, "He needs to shut his mouth. I know a lot of things about him that could ruin him." Fun!

I was trying to think of something exactly like this to say. So, good job. It's pretty disheartening to hear a lot of former players leave on such terrible terms.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 12:32 PM
http://www.nesn.com/2011/02/bobby-jenks-feels-good-after-throwing-to-hitters-for-first-time-this-spring.html

Red Barchetta
02-26-2011, 01:03 PM
I was trying to think of something exactly like this to say. So, good job. It's pretty disheartening to hear a lot of former players leave on such terrible terms.

I agree. I know Bobby needs to just move on and stop talking about it, however the Ozzie/KW issue must have seriously spilled into the clubhouse for so many players, both past and present, to continue to comment on it.

Konerko mentioned talking to JR about it and indicating it needed to be fixed for him to return. Beckham acknowledged it in an interview by taking the high road as well as some other players mentioning "focusing on baseball" etc.

The fact that MLB Network had cameras hanging around in 2010 further focusing on the feud probably didn't help either.

However, I find it fun to blame Ozzie's son for everything! :tongue:

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 01:25 PM
I agree. I know Bobby needs to just move on and stop talking about it, however the Ozzie/KW issue must have seriously spilled into the clubhouse for so many players, both past and present, to continue to comment on it.

Konerko mentioned talking to JR about it and indicating it needed to be fixed for him to return. Beckham acknowledged it in an interview by taking the high road as well as some other players mentioning "focusing on baseball" etc.

The fact that MLB Network had cameras hanging around in 2010 further focusing on the feud probably didn't help either.

However, I find it fun to blame Ozzie's son for everything! :tongue:

If it were as bad as people make it out to be, then why did people like Alexei, Konerko, and AJ resign? That makes no sense. Those guys have zero reason to stay with a team as messed up as Bobby explains. I think all of it is overblown, and very little of it should have an impact on the players considering it was a feud between Ozzie and Kenny. When it comes down to it, the White Sox stay loyal to their players and Jerry shows it, Ozzie shows it, and Kenny shows it.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 01:37 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
Guillen told son Oney to take the high road with Jenks' latest comments, but fired warning to Jenks not to mess with Oney.
2 minutes ago


MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"He (Jenks) should look in the mirror and know he's wrong," No. 13 says.
2 minutes ago


MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"I can make a book out of this kid (Jenks)."
2 minutes ago


MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
More: "Because he did a lot of bad things last year. We lied for him. We protect him. "
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 01:39 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
Guillen told son Oney to take the high road with Jenks' latest comments, but fired warning to Jenks not to mess with Oney.
2 minutes ago


MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"He (Jenks) should look in the mirror and know he's wrong," No. 13 says.
2 minutes ago


MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"I can make a book out of this kid (Jenks)."
2 minutes ago

Sigh.

Over By There
02-26-2011, 01:41 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
“Too bad all the stuff about me and Kenny interrupts his career,” Guillen said sarcastically.

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
More: "Because he did a lot of bad things last year. We lied for him. We protect him. "

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"I bet you Tito Francona isn’t going to put up with the (stuff) we put up with here."

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 01:42 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"We don’t miss him. Ask 30 guys out there. By the way, I was asking for his number to talk to him about it, and nobody has his number."
1 minute ago

TommyGavinFloyd
02-26-2011, 01:42 PM
Ozzie did nothing but defend Jenks last year and continue to use him, even when many people thought he should have lost his spot as the closer. He's all yours now, Boston. Enjoy.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 01:43 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
“Too bad all the stuff about me and Kenny interrupts his career,” Guillen said sarcastically.

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
More: "Because he did a lot of bad things last year. We lied for him. We protect him. "

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"I bet you Tito Francona isn’t going to put up with the (stuff) we put up with here."

Christ, Ozzie. SHUT YOUR ****ING MOUTH.

TheOldRoman
02-26-2011, 01:44 PM
Soo, pretty much exactly as I had predicted. But at least this time Ozzie told Oney not to say anything. I'm sure he will listen to his dad.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 01:45 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"Thank God he wasn’t talking about the club.If Bobby was talking about the club, I would be on ESPN everywhere because I would rip his guts"
1 minute ago


Oh Ozzie.

WhiteSox1989
02-26-2011, 01:45 PM
Bobby Jenks is making himself look bad, and I'm finding it very hard to like him right now.

TommyGavinFloyd
02-26-2011, 01:45 PM
Christ, Ozzie. SHUT YOUR ****ING MOUTH.

Why should he? He was asked a question and he's answering it.

Irishsox1
02-26-2011, 01:48 PM
This is a typical spring training story. Just like when Magglio left. If it wasn't for this, what else could be written about the White Sox? Nothing, so let this play out. Once Jenks starts struggling, the Chicago media and Ozzie will seem like a walk in the park compared to the Boston media and fans.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 01:48 PM
Why should he? He was asked a question and he's answering it.

I don't agree with him saying how much they "lied" for Bobby and, once a****inggain he brings his family into it. I don't understand why it's SOOO hard for Ozzie to just say, "I don't care what Jenks says, we are focused on this year."

Over By There
02-26-2011, 01:49 PM
I wish Ozzie would take the high road, but it's obvious that Bobby has touched a nerve, and I don't mind the organization standing up for itself a bit. The Sox have done a lot for Bobby (more than we know, if you believe Ozzie). At least it's Ozzie and not his bonehead son.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 01:49 PM
This is a typical spring training story.

Typical for the White Sox, yes.

TommyGavinFloyd
02-26-2011, 01:52 PM
I don't agree with him saying how much they "lied" for Bobby and, once a****inggain he brings his family into it. I don't understand why it's SOOO hard for Ozzie to just say, "I don't care what Jenks says, we are focused on this year."

Well, it's personal. The Sox plucked this guy from obscurity, where he was doing things like burning his pitching hand on purpose. They gave him the opportunity and millions of dollars, and stuck with him even when he clearly was no longer the player he used to be. For him to say things like "it's going to be nice to see how things are done [in Boston]", **** him. A week into Spring Training and he is still griping about Ozzie. Ozzie has every right to respond to what this clown is saying and to defend the organization.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 01:52 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
Ozzie" It's very sad because he (Jenks) knows I can easily, easily kill this kid in the paper. He’s not going to win."
1 minute ago



CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini
Ozzie on Jenks: "He can’t make any comments abt last yr becuz he was never in the clubhouse. He spent more time at home than the clubhouse"
2 minutes ago

DumpJerry
02-26-2011, 01:56 PM
:whocares
Really, why do you guys get worked up over this? He's not in the White Sox camp stirring up trouble. I don't care what Bobby has to say and I'm not on Twittie, so I don't get the pleasure of seeing the twits from Oney.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 01:58 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
“Too bad all the stuff about me and Kenny interrupts his career,” Guillen said sarcastically.

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
More: "Because he did a lot of bad things last year. We lied for him. We protect him. "

MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
"I bet you Tito Francona isn’t going to put up with the (stuff) we put up with here."


I will believe Ozzie on this one. Jenks is proving himself to be a 5 year old with the repeated Sox bashings.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 02:12 PM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
guillen on jenks: "I was a very bad manager because I kept him as my closer when he couldn’t (close)."
2 minutes ago

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:23 PM
Christ, Ozzie. SHUT YOUR ****ING MOUTH.

Why should he? If Ozzie started it, I'd understand, but this is on Bobby. Bobby opened up his own can of worms here and Ozzie can say what he damn well pleases. Something tells me that the story posted here a few weeks ago about the Fridge will be what we read about Bobby in ten or fifteen years about him drinking himself out of the game.

Ozzie should've benched him last year, but he kept on using him and tried to let Bobby work his problems out. Good riddance and goodbye to Bobby Jenks. Thank you for 2005, but you wore your welcome out.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 02:29 PM
Why should he? If Ozzie started it, I'd understand, but this is on Bobby. Bobby opened up his own can of worms here and Ozzie can say what he damn well pleases. Something tells me that the story posted here a few weeks ago about the Fridge will be what we read about Bobby in ten or fifteen years about him drinking himself out of the game.

Ozzie should've benched him last year, but he kept on using him and tried to let Bobby work his problems out. Good riddance and goodbye to Bobby Jenks. Thank you for 2005, but you wore your welcome out.

I've just grown very tired of Ozzie puffing his chest and bringing his family, yet again, into a situation. And Ozzie, stop with the stupid "I could bury this kid with all of the stuff I know about him!"

Why can't he, JUST ONCE, be the bigger man?

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:31 PM
I've just grown very tired of Ozzie puffing his chest and bringing his family, yet again, into a situation. And Ozzie, stop with the stupid "I could bury this kid with all of the stuff I know about him!"

Why can't he, JUST ONCE, be the bigger man?

I get it, you hate Ozzie. Get over it.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 02:31 PM
I've just grown very tired of Ozzie puffing his chest and bringing his family, yet again, into a situation. And Ozzie, stop with the stupid "I could bury this kid with all of the stuff I know about him!"

Why can't he, JUST ONCE, be the bigger man?

Yea. I wish Ozzie would just take the high road for once. I certainly don't expect it to happen anytime soon though.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 02:32 PM
A summary of Ozzie's rant:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/guillen-warns-of-retaliation-at-jenks.html

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 02:33 PM
I get it, you hate Ozzie. Get over it.

I've never once said I hate Ozzie. I hate this aspect of him, though.

I disagree with you. Get over it.

ChiSoxGal85
02-26-2011, 02:41 PM
I have to wonder what the Red Sox think about all this drama with their new pitcher.

I'm not a Cowley fan at all, but I just saw his article from 3 days ago about the White Sox closer role that seems to hint around at the overall feeling on Jenks.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/3959570-417/cowley-sox-mum-on-jenks-but-thornton-should-inherit-closer-role.html

Thome25
02-26-2011, 02:42 PM
Everyone here has a right to their individual opinions but, I love Ozzie. I applaud him for speaking his mind and standing up for himself, his family, his team, and his organization.

The world is way too vanilla and politically correct these days. I prefer Ozzie the colorful manager to say Gene Lamont the mannequin and Jerry Manuel the pacifist.

When people here on the east coast find out I'm a White Sox fan one of the first things they ask me is about Ozzie. I pretty much tell them that I love Ozzie and I like the fact that he's fiery and isn't afraid to speak his mind.

With that said, Jenks needs to shut the **** up. He should be ****ing grateful for the White Sox and what they did for his career.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:42 PM
If no one on the team had Bobby's number in their phone, that should tell you something.

GoGoCrede
02-26-2011, 02:42 PM
Both sides need to shut up. I don't like all this drama.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:42 PM
Everyone here has a right to their individual opinions but, I love Ozzie. I applaud him for speaking his mind and standing up for himself, his family, his team, and his organization.

The world is way too vanilla and politically correct these days. I prefer Ozzie the colorful manager to say Gene Lamont the mannequin and Jerry Manuel the pacifist.

When people here on the east coast find out I'm a White Sox fan one of the first things they ask me is about Ozzie. I pretty much tell them that I love Ozzie and I like the fact that he's fiery.

Amen brother! I hope Bobby Jenks gets lit up. I loved him when he was here, but he's the one who started this crap. It isn't like the Magglio situation where Ozzie started it. This one is on Bobby and the fact that not one of his teammates cares to keep in touch with him is very telling of the type of person he was in the clubhouse.

JermaineDye05
02-26-2011, 02:45 PM
A summary of Ozzie's rant:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/guillen-warns-of-retaliation-at-jenks.html

Most interesting thing about that story is that it says Oney declined to comment when asked about Bobby's comments.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 02:46 PM
Everyone here has a right to their individual opinions but, I love Ozzie. I applaud him for speaking his mind and standing up for himself, his family, his team, and his organization.

The world is way too vanilla and politically correct these days. I prefer Ozzie the colorful manager to say Gene Lamont the mannequin and Jerry Manuel the pacifist.

When people here on the east coast find out I'm a White Sox fan one of the first things they ask me is about Ozzie. I pretty much tell them that I love Ozzie and I like the fact that he's fiery and isn't afraid to speak his mind.

There is a difference between being "fiery" and airing a former player's dirty laundry. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of hearing our manager say he could "rip a player's throat out" if he wanted when it comes to their personal life.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 02:47 PM
Both sides need to shut up. I don't like all this drama.

Bingo.

Ozzie saying he will rip Jenks throat and/or guts out crosses the line for me. Very ugly, and quite uncalled for.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:49 PM
There is a difference between being "fiery" and airing a former player's dirty laundry. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of hearing our manager say he could "rip a player's throat out" if he wanted when it comes to their personal life.

Bobby opened his mouth first and knew damn well Ozzie wouldn't just shut up and listen. Ozzie didn't say anything to start this one. As soon as Bobby opened his mouth, he knew what he was going to get. Once again I want to reiterate that it is very telling that none of his former teammates are keeping in touch with him.

GoGoCrede
02-26-2011, 02:49 PM
Bingo.

Ozzie saying he will rip Jenks throat and/or guts out crosses the line for me. Very ugly, and quite uncalled for.

Agreed. I'd rather he get fired up about other issues. Of course Bobby's not much better running his mouth, but as soltrain said earlier, it would be nice if Ozzie chose to take the high road and not respond. That's what I'd like from my manager, not letting petty comments get him worked up in a tizzy.

GoGoCrede
02-26-2011, 02:51 PM
Bobby opened his mouth first and knew damn well Ozzie wouldn't just shut up and listen. Ozzie didn't say anything to start this one. As soon as Bobby opened his mouth, he knew what he was going to get. Once again I want to reiterate that it is very telling that none of his former teammates are keeping in touch with him.

Ozzie's the one who says none of the former teammates are keeping in touch, right? Consider the source. He may be telling the truth, but we still have to consider that he's exaggerating.

Also, Ozzie ridiculing Bobby for spending more time at home than in the clubhouse? Heaven forbid!

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 02:52 PM
Bobby opened his mouth first and knew damn well Ozzie wouldn't just shut up and listen. Ozzie didn't say anything to start this one. As soon as Bobby opened his mouth, he knew what he was going to get. Once again I want to reiterate that it is very telling that none of his former teammates are keeping in touch with him.

And Ozzie could have ignored it. He didn't. And that's what I don't like about him.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:54 PM
Ozzie's the one who says none of the former teammates are keeping in touch, right? Consider the source. He may be telling the truth, but we still have to consider that he's exaggerating.

Also, Ozzie ridiculing Bobby for spending more time at home than in the clubhouse? Heaven forbid!

The Sun Times article seems to tell a similar story. His ex-teammates don't really seem to like him much. Something went on where he pissed everyone of. Ozzie defended him and kept on using him, and then Bobby decided to repay that kindness by bashing him. He deserves what he got. I'd rather have Ozzie defend himself than stay silent.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 02:54 PM
There is a difference between being "fiery" and airing a former player's dirty laundry. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of hearing our manager say he could "rip a player's throat out" if he wanted when it comes to their personal life.

Bingo.

Ozzie saying he will rip Jenks throat and/or guts out crosses the line for me. Very ugly, and quite uncalled for.

You certainly have a right to your opinions. But, I personally don't have a problem with a word Ozzie said:

Ozzie's Comments (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/guillen-warns-of-retaliation-at-jenks.html)

I applaud him and it's completely refreshing to see someone speak their mind in this vanilla, politically correct world of corporate sellouts.

JermaineDye05
02-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Bingo.

Ozzie saying he will rip Jenks throat and/or guts out crosses the line for me. Very ugly, and quite uncalled for.

Ozzie should take the high road. However, he is just defending his son.

As much as we all dislike Oney, he's still Ozzie's son. Though I'm not a parent, I'm sure there are plenty out there who can understand Ozzie's need to protect his son and lash out at anyone who makes less than flattering comments about them to the public. I'm not saying that Ozzie didn't overreact here, quite the contrary. I'm just saying I can understand why he would react in such a way.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 02:55 PM
And Ozzie could have ignored it. He didn't. And that's what I don't like about him.

I really have no problem with Ozzie not ignoring it. I'll take Ozzie and his mouth any day over Gandhi. We had six years of Gandhi. I don't want to go back to that.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Agreed. I'd rather he get fired up about other issues. Of course Bobby's not much better running his mouth, but as soltrain said earlier, it would be nice if Ozzie chose to take the high road and not respond. That's what I'd like from my manager, not letting petty comments get him worked up in a tizzy.

Then Gene Lamont aka the mannequin or Gandhi Manuel the pacifist must've been the perfect Sox managers for you.

There were Sox fans in the past who complained about them being the opposite of Ozzie.

This is just MY opinion and it may or may not be wrong but, I like the fact that Ozzie, is colorful, fiery, and speaks his mind.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I am in Ft Myers and Jenks is now talking to the Boston media

Jenks and White Sox at it again
Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff February 26, 2011 03:16 PM (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/02/jenks_and_white.html?p1=News_links)

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I really have no problem with Ozzie not ignoring it. I'll take Ozzie and his mouth any day over Gandhi. We had six years of Gandhi. I don't want to go back to that.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I really have no problem with Ozzie not ignoring it. I'll take Ozzie and his mouth any day over Gandhi. We had six years of Gandhi. I don't want to go back to that.

:ohno

"Neither do we."

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

kittle42
02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Everyone here has a right to their individual opinions but, I love Ozzie. I applaud him for speaking his mind and standing up for himself, his family, his team, and his organization.

The world is way too vanilla and politically correct these days. I prefer Ozzie the colorful manager to say Gene Lamont the mannequin and Jerry Manuel the pacifist.

This, a million times.

I never understood why athletes and sports in general are treated like politics. Let people say what they want, and if the organization or the sport itself has a problem, people will get fined/disciplined/fired.

I love that Ozzie speaks his mind. It's interesting. It's, at times, really fun and funny. Sometimes, I roll my eyes at him; other times, I think it's great.

I'll take a character for a manager any day.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 02:59 PM
Bingo.

Ozzie saying he will rip Jenks throat and/or guts out crosses the line for me. Very ugly, and quite uncalled for.

Why? Jenks is making personal fronts, and this organization has done a lot for him. I'm sorry, but when you're making it personal, it will get personal. I am glad Ozzie is saying what he is saying. Taking the high road only lets idiots like him continue to run his mouth. You shut them up once, and they won't talk again.

kittle42
02-26-2011, 03:02 PM
There is a difference between being "fiery" and airing a former player's dirty laundry. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of hearing our manager say he could "rip a player's throat out" if he wanted when it comes to their personal life.

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe Bobby Jenks was a real ****ing ******* while he was on the Sox? Maybe Bobby Jenks had very personal issues with Ozzie or his sons we don't know about? Maybe Bobby Jenks showed up to day games reeking like Miguel Cabrera? It seems to me that there has not been much airing of dirty laundry at all.

One thing seems to be certain - Jenks was a major problem. No one knows the extent of it. Ozzie's basically saying shut your ****ing mouth if you know what's good for you.

Good for Ozzie.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 03:03 PM
If Bobby Jenks didn't want his dirty laundry aired over the newspaper, then he shouldn't have opened his mouth knowing that Ozzie wouldn't keep quiet.

I love our loudmouth manager and hope he's here for years to come. I grew up watching a trio of losers come through and manage the Sox before we got Ozzie. I'll take him and proudly claim him as our manager.

kittle42
02-26-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't like all this drama.

Perhaps it should be saved for one's mama.

Lip Man 1
02-26-2011, 03:03 PM
I have no issues at all with anything Ozzie said.

Lip

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 03:04 PM
:ohno

"Neither do we."

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

Nightmares!!!

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe Bobby Jenks was a real ****ing ******* while he was on the Sox? Maybe Bobby Jenks had very personal issues with Ozzie or his sons we don't know about? Maybe Bobby Jenks showed up to day games reeking like Miguel Cabrera? It seems to me that there has not been much airing of dirty laundry at all.

One thing seems to be certain - Jenks was a major problem. No one knows the extent of it. Ozzie's basically saying shut your ****ing mouth if you know what's good for you.

Good for Ozzie.

Fine. Let's say Jenks was a major problem and the world's worst clubhouse person. That doesn't really excuse Ozzie from the countless other things he has said that's made me groan.

I get it. Some people love a fiery passionate grindy David Eckstein type manager. I like Ozzie overall, I just wish he'd shut his ****ing mouth sometimes. That doesn't mean I want Gene Lamont back or something.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:04 PM
This, a million times.

I never understood why athletes and sports in general are treated like politics. Let people say what they want, and if the organization or the sport itself has a problem, people will get fined/disciplined/fired.

I love that Ozzie speaks his mind. It's interesting. It's, at times, really fun and funny. Sometimes, I roll my eyes at him; other times, I think it's great.

I'll take a character for a manager any day.

Amen brother!! Somewhere Earl Weaver and Billy Martin are smiling down on Ozzie.

And so am I!!:D:

TaylorStSox
02-26-2011, 03:06 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of Ozzie as a manager, but he's passionate as hell about this organization. I respect that.

JermaineDye05
02-26-2011, 03:07 PM
It'll be very interesting to see what happens the first time Bobby is on the mound against us.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Francona is SEETHING and he isn't mad at Ozzie. The Boston camp has been nice and quiet for 2 weeks...until now

Is it possible we have somebody with a thicker skull than Papelbon?

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-26-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for Jenks. He's turning into Nick Swisher 2.0

kittle42
02-26-2011, 03:09 PM
It'll be very interesting to see what happens the first time Bobby is on the mound against us.

There will be many posts about whether he has gained or lost weight based on his performance.

Red Barchetta
02-26-2011, 03:09 PM
If it were as bad as people make it out to be, then why did people like Alexei, Konerko, and AJ resign? That makes no sense. Those guys have zero reason to stay with a team as messed up as Bobby explains. I think all of it is overblown, and very little of it should have an impact on the players considering it was a feud between Ozzie and Kenny. When it comes down to it, the White Sox stay loyal to their players and Jerry shows it, Ozzie shows it, and Kenny shows it.

The feud wasn't enough to drive players away, just something that overshadowed their efforts last season. I could flip the question around and ask where were the other great offers to pull these players away? AJ
and Paulie were free agents and Alexei avoided arbitration.

Regardless of the feud, the SOX probably still offer all three their best chance of winning another championship (at least for AJ and Paulie).

For players like Bobby who the SOX chose not to pursue, he blames the feud vs. players like Konerko and Beckham who made comments about resolving the issues and moving forward.

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 03:09 PM
Francona is SEETHING and he isn't mad at Ozzie. The Boston camp has been nice and quiet for 2 weeks...until now

Is it possible we have somebody with a thicker skull than Papelbon?

I did a random search for "Jenks" on facebook just to see what others were saying about the whole thing and saw your post lol.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Francona is SEETHING and he isn't mad at Ozzie. The Boston camp has been nice and quiet for 2 weeks...until now

Is it possible we have somebody with a thicker skull than Papelbon?

This amuses me. Have fun with Bobby.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Fine. Let's say Jenks was a major problem and the world's worst clubhouse person. That doesn't really excuse Ozzie from the countless other things he has said that's made me groan.

I get it. Some people love a fiery passionate grindy David Eckstein type manager. I like Ozzie overall, I just wish he'd shut his ****ing mouth sometimes. That doesn't mean I want Gene Lamont back or something.

But, that's what you'd be getting if you had a manager who quote "took the high road" and "shut his ****ing mouth".

Whether you liked it or not.

Then we'd have the opposite threads here at WSi about how our manager was a Gandhi pacifist and didn't get fired up enough.

Oh wait....snap!! We've already been there!!:tongue:

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 03:10 PM
I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for Jenks. He's turning into Nick Swisher 2.0

The moment he ran his mouth the first time once he got signed that was it for me. As far as I am concerned, I hope he gets his ass kicked every time he pitches.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 03:11 PM
I did a random search for "Jenks" on facebook just to see what others were saying about the whole thing and saw your post lol.

Memorial Day at Fenway should be fun :tongue:

gobears1987
02-26-2011, 03:14 PM
The moment he ran his mouth the first time once he got signed that was it for me. As far as I am concerned, I hope he gets his ass kicked every time he pitches.

That's exactly how I feel. I loved him and defended him on this site plenty of times, but he's burned that bridge. I hope his ERA is Jeff Samardzija high.

GoGoCrede
02-26-2011, 03:15 PM
But, that's what you'd be getting if you had a manager who quote "took the high road" and "shut his ****ing mouth".

Whether you liked it or not.

Then we'd have the opposite threads here at WSi about how our manager was a Gandhi pacifist and didn't get fired up enough.

Oh wait....snap!! We've already been there!!:tongue:

Come on now. There HAS to be a middle ground between Ozzie and "Gandhi."

WhiteSox5187
02-26-2011, 03:16 PM
For me this is very sad because Bobby was one of my favorite players on that 2005 team and he did a lot to help us in both 05 and 08, but his whining is getting tiresome. It's one thing for Konerko to point out the distractions caused by Ozzie and Kenny but Bobby flat out sucked last year and all Ozzie did was stick with him and defended him in the press, so seeing him lash out at Ozzie is sad but to see Ozzie bring Bobby's obviously troubled past (and present) into this is also sad. If Ozzie pointed out out how the Sox MADE this guy's career that's fine, if he pointed out how Bobby struggled on the field and Ozzie still stuck with him, fine. But this "he spent more time at home than in the clubhouse" crap is a bit too far.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Come on now. There HAS to be a middle ground between Ozzie and "Gandhi."

Is there someone out there who can name me a manager who BOTH speaks his mind and takes the high road 50/50 split down the middle?

More often than not their personalities dictate that they're either one or the other.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:19 PM
The moment he ran his mouth the first time once he got signed that was it for me. As far as I am concerned, I hope he gets his ass kicked every time he pitches.

That's exactly how I feel. I loved him and defended him on this site plenty of times, but he's burned that bridge. I hope his ERA is Jeff Samardzija high.

I hope we get the chance to light him up.....and the first ball hit is a screamer right up the middle.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 03:21 PM
Come on now. There HAS to be a middle ground between Ozzie and "Gandhi."


Who though? Who is the middle ground? La Russa? Torre? Pinnela? Maddon? There is no middle ground. You're either a good manager with no personality who gains respect from his team because of knowledge or prior experience, or you're a manager who is loud and true to everybody who gains respect because he does not hide anything. That is Ozzie. Everyone else who is in the middle is a quiet guy who gets nothing from his players and eventually dries out ala Dusty Baker, Wedge, etc.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:22 PM
But, that's what you'd be getting if you had a manager who quote "took the high road" and "shut his ****ing mouth".

Whether you liked it or not.

Then we'd have the opposite threads here at WSi about how our manager was a Gandhi pacifist and didn't get fired up enough.

Oh wait....snap!! We've already been there!!:tongue:

So there are only two types of manager in the world? Okay. Tell Bobby Cox, Charlie Manuel, Mike Scoisia, Joe Torre, Terry Francona and a slew of other successful managers that are relatively quiet that they don't actually exist.

Of course, none of those guys really have fights in the media with former players.

PeteWard
02-26-2011, 03:23 PM
There will be many posts about whether he has gained or lost weight based on his performance.

I think the speculation will be more about alcohol if he tanks. And I think he will tank, alcohol or not. He just looked washed up last year and choked agianst the rival Twinks. Imagine him vs the Yankees in the many games Boston plays vs. them.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:24 PM
Who though? Who is the middle ground? La Russa? Torre? Pinnela? Maddon? There is no middle ground. You're either a good manager with no personality who gains respect from his team because of knowledge or prior experience, or you're a manager who is loud and true to everybody who gains respect because he does not hide anything. That is Ozzie. Everyone else who is in the middle is a quiet guy who gets nothing from his players and eventually dries out ala Dusty Baker, Wedge, etc.

So, Dusty Baker got nothing from his players last year? Or the year he went to the World Series with the Giants? Or the year he went to the NLCS with the Cubs?

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 03:24 PM
Who though? Who is the middle ground? La Russa? Torre? Pinnela? Maddon? There is no middle ground. You're either a good manager with no personality who gains respect from his team because of knowledge or prior experience, or you're a manager who is loud and true to everybody who gains respect because he does not hide anything. That is Ozzie. Everyone else who is in the middle is a quiet guy who gets nothing from his players and eventually dries out ala Dusty Baker, Wedge, etc.

Bull****. Why is it with WSI it's always one extreme or the other? Also, you know Dusty's Reds won the division last year, yes?

ShooterMcGavin
02-26-2011, 03:25 PM
Guillen is reactionary, not calculated.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 03:27 PM
So there are only two types of manager in the world? Okay. Tell Bobby Cox, Charlie Manuel, Mike Scoisia, Joe Torre, Terry Francona and a slew of other successful managers that are relatively quiet that they don't actually exist.

Of course, none of those guys really have fights in the media with former players.


But Ozzie is not THAT type of manager, and gets his success and respect from his players in a different way. he's not going to change, through years of doing it one way he will continue doing it this way. So there is no point in picking on this. It's his way, and if you don't like it, good for you. Go find another quiet guy, besides the ones you've mentioned, which ones have been successful? Ozzie, being whatever it is that you hate about him, has been as stable a coach for this team in ages. People forget that, and it will be hilarious if and when he does leave and when we replace him with that quiet guy.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:28 PM
But Ozzie is not THAT type of manager, and gets his success and respect from his players in a different way. he's not going to change, through years of doing it one way he will continue doing it this way. So there is no point in picking on this. It's his way, and if you don't like it, good for you. Go find another quiet guy, besides the ones you've mentioned, which ones have been successful? Ozzie, being whatever it is that you hate about him, has been as stable a coach for this team in ages. People forget that, and it will be hilarious if and when he does leave and when we replace him with that quiet guy.


Um. A **** ton more than loud mouth managers.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 03:30 PM
Come on now. There HAS to be a middle ground between Ozzie and "Gandhi."

Francona does one thing VERY well...he keeps what happens in the clubhouse IN the clubhouse.

When he is finally fed up...he tells Theo to get rid of a player and it is done

(see Nomar, Manny)

Papelbon is the next to go...

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:30 PM
Please take your opinion to my poll. Let's settle this once and for all:

Do You Like Ozzie's Fiery Personality? (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126405)

Ranger
02-26-2011, 03:32 PM
I really like Bobby personally, but he needs to let this thing go away. To me, I feel like he's squandering any good will he had built up here over the year. It's always been my impression that any member of the Sox championship team that has moved on to another team should get a warm welcome upon their return. The longer this goes on, the less likely Jenks will have that when he comes back. He's not going to get much support from the fans.

I'm really not sure what his issue is, but I can tell you without being specific that any of Bobby's off-field stuff that's being referenced is probably not exaggeration. He really ought to just say that he liked his time in Chicago and leave it at that...and he should have done that from the start. I can't think of one person with the team that had any bad words to say about Jenks when he signed with Boston. He needed to do the same.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Is there someone out there who can name me a manager who BOTH speaks his mind and takes the high road 50/50 split down the middle?

More often than not their personalities dictate that their either one or the other.

So there are only two types of manager in the world? Okay. Tell Bobby Cox, Charlie Manuel, Mike Scoisia, Joe Torre, Terry Francona and a slew of other successful managers that are relatively quiet that they don't actually exist.

Of course, none of those guys really have fights in the media with former players.

See my post above? I feel that you fall into one category or the other.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 03:32 PM
So, Dusty Baker got nothing from his players last year? Or the year he went to the World Series with the Giants? Or the year he went to the NLCS with the Cubs?

Bull****. Why is it with WSI it's always one extreme or the other? Also, you know Dusty's Reds won the division last year, yes?


And then what? Ran out of flavor real fast. He has an initial burst, and then flattens out. Have fun with that. Why did the Cubs stumble for years after that? Sooner or later, the lax, I'll let things resolve themselves does not work. ALSO, it's easy to coach when you have talent. Joe Torre since he left the Yankees has not done anything. Charlie Manuel before coaching the Phillies and their star studded cast, what did he do? And Terry Francona, again, has played around good teams all his life.

Ozzie Guillen has, time and time again, led teams that have been inferior to either respectable records or playoff runs. A world series with a team of no names, a playoff run with an injured leader at the end of the month. A year of crap with a crappy team fielded, and a close enough run until injuries and bullpen implosions did them in last year. Give me a break man, the quiet ones are fun and all, but what do they get out of their players? Nothing. Give me Ozzie, and give me him for as long as he continues to win.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Please take your opinion to my poll. Let's settle this once and for all:

Do You Like Ozzie's Fiery Personality? (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126405)

Um. What are we settling? Our opinons? That...doesn't make sense.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Please take your opinion to my poll. Let's settle this once and for all:

Do You Like Ozzie's Fiery Personality? (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126405)

There is no "settling" this. People have opinions and preferences. No one is correct or incorrect in said discussion.

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 03:35 PM
Um. A **** ton more than loud mouth managers.


The only guy I can think of is LaRussa. That guy has done wonders with clubs that are not as good and great at the same time. Everyone else has had great great teams to coach.

EDIT: and the guy from the Twins, but here's the negation, he coaches the regular season and then sucks in the playoffs. Ozzie gets in the playoffs and you have success.

Thome25
02-26-2011, 03:37 PM
There is no "settling" this. People have opinions and preferences. No one is correct or incorrect in said discussion.

Did you read this thread?

I said everyone has a right to their opinion. The "settling" is we get to know once and for all where Sox fans opinions lie on this issue.

You're perfectly correct. There is no wrong or right with this issue.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 03:43 PM
Did you read this thread?

I said everone has a right to their opinion. The "settling" is we get to know once and for all where Sox fans opinions lie on this issue.

You're perfectly correct. There is no wrong or right with this issue.

Okay, have fun with your little poll. But you by no means are settling anything "once and for all" like your post stated.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Okay, have fun with your little poll. But you by no means are settling anything "once and for all" like your post stated.

Even in this situation they are making it even a "you love what he says" or "you hate what he says." I think he is a very entertaining manager and is pretty funny most of the time. Sometimes he really just needs to shut up and not speak. Of course, then we get labeled as Jerry Manuel lovers.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 03:50 PM
Even in this situation they are making it even a "you love what he says" or "you hate what he says." I think he is a very entertaining manager and is pretty funny most of the time. Sometimes he really just needs to shut up and not speak. Of course, then we get labeled as Jerry Manuel lovers.

Indeed. I don't mind a fiery or passionate manager, or one who speaks his mind. But with Ozzie he goes far overboard more often than not, and that's what I take issue with.

DumpJerry
02-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Indeed. I don't mind a fiery or passionate manager, or one who speaks his mind. But with Ozzie he goes far overboard more often than not, and that's what I take issue with.
It doesn't effect the Sox play on the field and it seems Bobby The Whiner was more of a clubhouse cancer than we ever thought. I like it that Ozzie takes a stand and is not a detached person who merely cashes a paycheck.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 04:06 PM
It doesn't effect the Sox play on the field and it seems Bobby The Whiner was more of a clubhouse cancer than we ever thought. I like it that Ozzie takes a stand and is not a detached person who merely cashes a paycheck.

Fair enough. I was never a huge Bobby fan, and your assessment sounds about right from what I've been reading of late. He comes off sounding like a whiny child and I wonder how Sox fans will react to his Chicago homecoming.

DumpJerry
02-26-2011, 04:08 PM
Fair enough. I was never a huge Bobby fan, and your assessment sounds about right from what I've been reading of late. He comes off sounding like a whiny child and I wonder how Sox fans will react to his Chicago homecoming.
I like it because I'm tired of "I'm in the best shape of my life" stories that we hear all the time in February.

ChiSoxGal85
02-26-2011, 04:20 PM
Francona is SEETHING and he isn't mad at Ozzie. The Boston camp has been nice and quiet for 2 weeks...until now

Is it possible we have somebody with a thicker skull than Papelbon?

Francona should be seething. Totally unprofessional behavior by Bobby. I really liked Bobby, I thank him for 2005 and the few years after...but he needs to grow up already. He's certainly not doing himself any favors with all this drama.



I'm really not sure what his issue is, but I can tell you without being specific that any of Bobby's off-field stuff that's being referenced is probably not exaggeration. He really ought to just say that he liked his time in Chicago and leave it at that...and he should have done that from the start. I can't think of one person with the team that had any bad words to say about Jenks when he signed with Boston. He needed to do the same.

You're dead on, Ranger.

For me, Ozzie took about 2 steps too far in the whole "dialogue". Bobby started it, and It's ok to defend yourself and your team, but it can be done without getting really dirty about it. Ozzie could have stopped after he said (all paraphrased): "that's sad that Bobby thinks that", "the organization did a lot of good things for him" and "he should concentrate on his new job" and left it at that.

Red Barchetta
02-26-2011, 04:30 PM
I always wonder when players say things like this (Jenks & Swisher come to mind), whether or not there were more personal issues involved with Ozzie or any of the other SOX mgmt. or front office team. Individual challenges, etc.

I remember Ozzie calling Swisher out publically in the media and indicating that if you "act like a superstar you need to perform like one".

This is more of a generic observation, regardless of the organization.

Whitesox029
02-26-2011, 04:55 PM
It'll be very interesting to see what happens the first time Bobby is on the mound against us.
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4cfe6653cadcbbcf5c030000/adam-dunn-free-agent-chicago-white-sox.jpg
"My bet is 'game-winning three-run homer'."

Even in this situation they are making it even a "you love what he says" or "you hate what he says." I think he is a very entertaining manager and is pretty funny most of the time. Sometimes he really just needs to shut up and not speak. Of course, then we get labeled as Jerry Manuel lovers.

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much...it's not as if what Ozzie says is going to affect the team's preparedness, or their performance during the season, or the cost of your ticket. He's not even making the organization look bad. He's just defending himself, which is his right when someone says something bad about him. This isn't a feud between The Red Sox and White Sox, or even between Jenks and the White Sox. It's a feud between Jenks and Guillen. There's no reason Ozzie shouldn't be able to let off steam as he sees fit as long as he doesn't make his employer look bad.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 05:05 PM
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4cfe6653cadcbbcf5c030000/adam-dunn-free-agent-chicago-white-sox.jpg
"My bet is 'game-winning three-run homer'."



I'm not sure why it bothers you so much...it's not as if what Ozzie says is going to affect the team's preparedness, or their performance during the season, or the cost of your ticket. He's not even making the organization look bad. He's just defending himself, which is his right when someone says something bad about him. This isn't a feud between The Red Sox and White Sox, or even between Jenks and the White Sox. It's a feud between Jenks and Guillen. There's no reason Ozzie shouldn't be able to let off steam as he sees fit as long as he doesn't make his employer look bad.

Except that Konerko, Beckham and Thornton have all made reference to the Guillens antics being somewhat a distraction...

Bob Roarman
02-26-2011, 05:09 PM
I'm not sure why it bothers you so much...it's not as if what Ozzie says is going to affect the team's preparedness, or their performance during the season, or the cost of your ticket. He's not even making the organization look bad. He's just defending himself, which is his right when someone says something bad about him. This isn't a feud between The Red Sox and White Sox, or even between Jenks and the White Sox. It's a feud between Jenks and Guillen. There's no reason Ozzie shouldn't be able to let off steam as he sees fit as long as he doesn't make his employer look bad.

Because it's puts the organization as a whole in a bad light. You don't bring back up that earlier incident by saying things like he can write a book about Jenks and all the bad things he's done and insinuating Oney knows a lot more than he disclosed before. You can't do that as professional manager of a baseball club. You can't say things like that out in the open. You can't say things like I will rip his guts or throat out. BE PROFESSIONAL. Be a ****ing professional manager and take the high road. He tells Oney to take the high road and then he spouts off again. It's beyond ridiculous at this point. It's just stupid bull**** like that which conveys a certain image on the organization as a whole, as out of control.

Jenks is going to say what he's going to say how the White Sox managed him as a pitcher or handled the bullpen, but that's the GAME. Nothing he's said hasn't been said before by other players about their past teams. Is it childish, yes. But to threaten him with outing his "dirty laundry" in his personal life is ****ing ridiculous. That's stepping over the line. Why? Why, why why would you do that? To get back at him? Are we in Junior High?

Frontman
02-26-2011, 05:13 PM
Bobby needs to stop talking. I'm waiting for the Kenny Williams' eventual, "Quite Frankly, He needs to stay out of White Sox business."

Bobby isn't on the same level as Frank Thomas; so if Kenny felt that strongly about Frank, KW will probably go off on Bobby soon.

Fenway
02-26-2011, 05:26 PM
This is the AP story on Ozzie's reaction

http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1319582&srvc=next_article

I have talked to a couple of Boston writers and both point out the same thing...

Phil Rogers baited Bobby with the hope he would get a quote that would be heard in Glendale. He hasn't said anything to a Boston or NY writer (the NY papers staff the Boston camp ) and it wasn't until Phil showed up that this happened.

The Herald ran Rogers story in the print edition which showed up in Ft. Myers around Noontime.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20110225changing_sox_bobby_jenks_settling_in_with_ boston/

Whitesox029
02-26-2011, 05:32 PM
Except that Konerko, Beckham and Thornton have all made reference to the Guillens antics being somewhat a distraction...
Yeah, and Konerko had a pretty terrible year last year, and then bolted out of town to sign in LA for less money as soon as his contract was up, because he juts couldn't handle the distraction anymore.
So, what really happened was that they took it in stride, knowing that conflict is an inevitable part of what happens when 25 players and their coaching staff spend 7 1/2 consecutive months together. When the conflict happens, there's talk. It's no more of a distraction when the manager does it than if Jenks had called out one of the other players, and that player had defended himself a la Ozzie.
The point is, this whole thing is on Jenks, and while there are certainly people who will take the high road, Ozzie is not one of them. 20 seasons of having him in the White Sox clubhouse should have taught you this by now. No amount of grousing about him is going to change his personality any more than it would change any of your fundamental personality qualities. If you think it's worth firing a relatively successful manager who is well-liked by most of his players just because he goes on a rant every once in a while, then that's your opinion, but I'm glad you're not in charge.
EDIT: I KNOW you did not say you would fire him, but it's pretty much implied, because why else would you complain about it so strongly?

kittle42
02-26-2011, 05:36 PM
Boom. Here comes the boom.

Bob Roarman
02-26-2011, 05:46 PM
[MQUOTE=Whitesox029;2700787]
Yeah, and Konerko had a pretty terrible year last year, and then bolted out of town to sign in LA for less money as soon as his contract was up, because he juts couldn't handle the distraction anymore.
So, what really happened was that they took it in stride, knowing that conflict is an inevitable part of what happens when 25 players and their coaching staff spend 7 1/2 consecutive months together. When the conflict happens, there's talk. It's no more of a distraction when the manager does it than if Jenks had called out one of the other players, and that player had defended himself a la Ozzie.
The point is, this whole thing is on Jenks, and while there are certainly people who will take the high road, Ozzie is not one of them. 20 seasons of having him in the White Sox clubhouse should have taught you this by now. No amount of grousing about him is going to change his personality any more than it would change any of your fundamental personality qualities. If you think it's worth firing a relatively successful manager who is well-liked by most of his players just because he goes on a rant every once in a while, then that's your opinion, but I'm glad you're not in charge.
EDIT: I KNOW you did not say you would fire him, but it's pretty much implied, because why else would you complain about it so strongly?[/QUOTE]
You cannot put the integrity of.the entire organization on the line for what a former player has said about game decisions and management. It is not worth it. By continuing to take part in it and by ESCALATING as Oney and now Ozzie has done is unacceptable. Nothing good will come of it. You let Jenks look dumb and stay out of it, not make it worse.

BringHomeDaBacon
02-26-2011, 05:54 PM
Oh boy, machismo from Ozzie - how shocking.

I'm pretty sure that if Ozzie met Jenks in an alley, Jenks would be leaving with his throat intact. I am definitely going to LOL when the news breaks that someone has finally ripped out Ozzie's tongue and shoved it up his rear.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-26-2011, 06:36 PM
Oh boy, machismo from Ozzie - how shocking.

I'm pretty sure that if Ozzie met Jenks in an alley, Jenks would be leaving with his throat intact. I am definitely going to LOL when the news breaks that someone has finally ripped out Ozzie's tongue and shoved it up his rear.


:rolleyes:

Yeah, Ozzie is supposed to just up and take it when a disgruntled former reliever with an ax to grind keeps publicly insulting Ozzie and the White Sox.

He might have been a little too vivid in his retorts, but I applaud Ozzie for standing up for himself.

Now, let's see him do it on the field against the Twins...

Soxfest
02-26-2011, 06:49 PM
Topic is old and boring!

Ranger
02-26-2011, 06:49 PM
Yeah, and Konerko had a pretty terrible year last year, and then bolted out of town to sign in LA for less money as soon as his contract was up, because he juts couldn't handle the distraction anymore.
So, what really happened was that they took it in stride, knowing that conflict is an inevitable part of what happens when 25 players and their coaching staff spend 7 1/2 consecutive months together. When the conflict happens, there's talk. It's no more of a distraction when the manager does it than if Jenks had called out one of the other players, and that player had defended himself a la Ozzie.
The point is, this whole thing is on Jenks, and while there are certainly people who will take the high road, Ozzie is not one of them. 20 seasons of having him in the White Sox clubhouse should have taught you this by now. No amount of grousing about him is going to change his personality any more than it would change any of your fundamental personality qualities. If you think it's worth firing a relatively successful manager who is well-liked by most of his players just because he goes on a rant every once in a while, then that's your opinion, but I'm glad you're not in charge.
EDIT: I KNOW you did not say you would fire him, but it's pretty much implied, because why else would you complain about it so strongly?

Seven months of being together in the same facility for 10+ hours a day, every day. When that happens, personalities can conflict.


You cannot put the integrity of.the entire organization on the line for what a former player has said about game decisions and management. It is not worth it. By continuing to take part in it and by ESCALATING as Oney and now Ozzie has done is unacceptable. Nothing good will come of it. You let Jenks look dumb and stay out of it, not make it worse.

The problem is that it's not that simple. Allowing Bobby to publicly say the he can't wait to play for a manager that can run a bullpen (the first shot, by the way) and not responding to it, is tantamount to admitting that it's true. Players around baseball read and hear about this stuff. Had Jenks said that with no reaction from the Sox, it would be out there that the Sox don't know what they're doing. That might actually stick with some players (free agents).

TheVulture
02-26-2011, 07:13 PM
"I bet you Tito Francona isn’t going to put up with the (stuff) we put up with here."

Tito? :rolling:


:stirpot:

tstrike2000
02-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Maybe Bobby's right when he mentioned some things about Ozzie and the front office has been a problem for a while. However, it's over, both sides need to shut up and move on. Can't believe this is still being talked about.

spawn
02-26-2011, 07:17 PM
My thoughts on this are as follows...it's easy to rip Ozzie for his comments to Bobby. My problem is this isn't the first time Bobby has ripped Ozzie and White Sox management since he signed with the Red Sox. The first time, Ozzie didn't say anything. So Bobby decides to run his mouth again. Now, Jenks knows Ozzie. He knows the man has a hard time taking personal shots. Would it have been too much for Jenks to just say he enjoyed his time on the south side, thanked White Sox management for giving him the opportunities they did, and then pitched his ass of for his current team? Why the necessity to take shots? Now, maybe Ozzie went overboard with his comments, but Jenks started the whole thing IMO. He would've served his current team better by just shutting the **** up.

JermaineDye05
02-26-2011, 07:19 PM
SC just aired a snippet from the comments. I thought it was in poor taste that they cut it off after Ozzie said he could kill Bobby. It made it sound like Ozzie meant literally kill Jenks rather than sully his image in the paper.

soltrain21
02-26-2011, 07:49 PM
SC just aired a snippet from the comments. I thought it was in poor taste that they cut it off after Ozzie said he could kill Bobby. It made it sound like Ozzie meant literally kill Jenks rather than sully his image in the paper.

Well. It was a poor choice of words from Ozzie to begin with.

thomas35forever
02-26-2011, 08:31 PM
Bobby had it coming. He could have kept his mouth shut, but he chose to run it. He woke a sleeping giant in the process. News flash, Bobby: if you didn't suck so much for five out of six months last year, we could have kept you. That wasn't the case, however. Enjoy your time away from us. You won't be missed.

Bob Roarman
02-26-2011, 09:06 PM
Seven months of being together in the same facility for 10+ hours a day, every day. When that happens, personalities can conflict.



The problem is that it's not that simple. Allowing Bobby to publicly say the he can't wait to play for a manager that can run a bullpen (the first shot, by the way) and not responding to it, is tantamount to admitting that it's true. Players around baseball read and hear about this stuff. Had Jenks said that with no reaction from the Sox, it would be out there that the Sox don't know what they're doing. That might actually stick with some players (free agents).
You can say your piece without escalating the situation even further. When Ozzie said he thought it was sad Bobby felt that way that was fine. Reminding the entire baseball world that you more than likely talked about what was supposed to confidential information on a player, and now further going out and saying and more or less threatening that player with his own personal problems and airing them out, that reeks of ignorance.

You have to into account that you are the face of that organization. You speak for it. By commenting as he has, all he does is plant further seeds of doubt of whether or not players can trust him especially after what just happened with ****ing Oney. FORGET ABOUT JENKS. Former players criticizing their past team is not new. It will continue to happen. But I have never seen or heard anything else that comes close to how Ozzie, his family (which is absurd that we even have to include them) and the organization in general has handled this. It can be infinitely more damaging than not lashing out at a disgruntled former player. I said it before with Oney and I will say it again now, any criticism they get for this, they deserve. Just because its the team I root for doesn't make them any less culpable.

SaltyPretzel
02-26-2011, 09:47 PM
Amen brother!! Somewhere Earl Weaver and Billy Martin are smiling down on Ozzie.

And so am I!!:D:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/alternatethumbnails/storygallery/2009-11/13446729-17142928.jpg
"I'm not dead yet you *******!"

guillensdisciple
02-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Because it's puts the organization as a whole in a bad light. You don't bring back up that earlier incident by saying things like he can write a book about Jenks and all the bad things he's done and insinuating Oney knows a lot more than he disclosed before. You can't do that as professional manager of a baseball club. You can't say things like that out in the open. You can't say things like I will rip his guts or throat out. BE PROFESSIONAL. Be a ****ing professional manager and take the high road. He tells Oney to take the high road and then he spouts off again. It's beyond ridiculous at this point. It's just stupid bull**** like that which conveys a certain image on the organization as a whole, as out of control.

Jenks is going to say what he's going to say how the White Sox managed him as a pitcher or handled the bullpen, but that's the GAME. Nothing he's said hasn't been said before by other players about their past teams. Is it childish, yes. But to threaten him with outing his "dirty laundry" in his personal life is ****ing ridiculous. That's stepping over the line. Why? Why, why why would you do that? To get back at him? Are we in Junior High?


Who in the living **** created these rules on what you can't and can say? The ******* insulted the organization and Ozzie. **** that, I would have personally called him and given him the talk. Who does he think he is? Why should Ozzie take the high road? He can do whatever he wants to do. If it was not okay, someone would have fired him a long time ago. I'm sorry, but you can't let rats keep on talking and opening their mouths, sooner or later you have to make sure they're squashed. He did it once, Ozzie took it easy. He does it again, Ozzie explodes. Lets see him try a third time.

Viva Medias B's
02-26-2011, 11:10 PM
Bobby needs to ****.

Bob Roarman
02-26-2011, 11:19 PM
****ing forget about what Jenks said for a minute. That sort of **** happens almost every off season. What matters much more is how a manager reacts in this situation. And how do you think other players around the league are viewing Ozzie and the Sox right now? What did they gain by having Ozzie threaten a former player like he has about his personal problems, talking about how they lied for him?

They could've let Jenks look like the moron and that would've been it. But nope, Ozzie and his family just cannot let things pass. They gotta get back, even to the point of it being detrimental to the entire goddamn organization like it is has been with the last two incidents with Jenks. Take off the blinders and look at it from an outside POV.

Fenway
02-27-2011, 06:34 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_0227jenks_grewin_05_series/srvc=sports&position=recent_bullet

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20110227/4f67d5_Jenks_02262011.jpg

Fenway
02-27-2011, 09:33 AM
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184211_1804967236664_1014362077_32073423_5572551_n .jpg

Frontman
02-27-2011, 12:49 PM
****ing forget about what Jenks said for a minute. That sort of **** happens almost every off season. What matters much more is how a manager reacts in this situation. And how do you think other players around the league are viewing Ozzie and the Sox right now? What did they gain by having Ozzie threaten a former player like he has about his personal problems, talking about how they lied for him?

They could've let Jenks look like the moron and that would've been it. But nope, Ozzie and his family just cannot let things pass. They gotta get back, even to the point of it being detrimental to the entire goddamn organization like it is has been with the last two incidents with Jenks. Take off the blinders and look at it from an outside POV.

I don't know. If Ozzie was such a HORRID individual to be around, and could be nothing but a distraction to the players?

Konerko must not care.

Dunn must not care.

Alexei must not care.

Mark Buehrle must not care

Omar Visquel must not care.

AJ Pierzynski must not care.

Need I go on? Even Frank Thomas, who got into it fiercely with the organization and Kenny a few years ago is back as an ambassador. I agree with this mornings WSCR hosts:

The Red Sox need to tell Bobby to shut up and ignore questions about Chicago/don't talk to Chicago based reporters. They need to tell him that he's now in Boston, and they sign his checks, not the White Sox.

Noneck
02-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Konerko must not care.

Dunn must not care.

Alexei must not care.

Mark Buehrle must not care

Omar Visquel must not care.

AJ Pierzynski must not care.




You know that the above could have gotten a better contract elsewhere? Getting the best contract is probably the most important thing to these players.

Them signing with the Sox doesn't mean that Ozzie is not a distraction, which I have no idea one way or another if he is. No one here does either.

JermaineDye05
02-27-2011, 01:34 PM
Hear Ozzie's comments here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6161209

TomBradley72
02-27-2011, 01:35 PM
You know that the above could have gotten a better contract elsewhere? Getting the best contract is probably the most important thing to these players.

Them signing with the Sox doesn't mean that Ozzie is not a distraction, which I have no idea one way or another if he is. No one here does either.

They have all had plenty of opportunities to sign elsewhere and chose not to.

JB98
02-27-2011, 01:37 PM
What people have to understand is players often lash out when an organization they've been with for a long time informs them they are no longer wanted.

There are iconic players in the history of this franchise -- Big Frank, Pudge, hell, even Ozzie himself -- who left this organization on bad terms.

There is no question in my mind Bobby Jenks enjoyed being a member of the White Sox. Then, the Sox told him he wasn't wanted anymore. That has to hurt. Bobby was upset to be let go, and that's why he's making these remarks. Doesn't make his comments right, but it does make them understandable.

I don't blame Ozzie for firing back either. I happen to think Ozzie does a pretty decent job handling the pitchers. He may not be the best manager in the game, but he's far from the worst I've seen. He has a good enough track record that he deserves a little more respect.

Apparently, Jenks has forgotten which manager gave him his first opportunity in the big leagues, which manager gave him the chance to prove himself on the biggest stage. As time passes, I believe Bobby will see the error of his ways.

SOXSINCE'70
02-27-2011, 01:43 PM
i applaud ozzie for standing up for himself.

now, let's see him do it on the field against the twins...

+ 1.

Noneck
02-27-2011, 01:50 PM
They have all had plenty of opportunities to sign elsewhere and chose not to.


Maybe because they got the best contract with the Sox?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-27-2011, 02:22 PM
Maybe because they got the best contract with the Sox?

Didn't Pierzynski and Konerko take LESS money this year in order to come back because of Dunn?

Konerko was offered a huge deal by the Orioles, but turned it down. Konerko, almost as much as money (if not moreso), also wanted a place where he had a chance to win. When he saw that Kenny was dedicated to making this team a winner with the Dunn signing, he decided to forgo the extra millions toiling for the perennial loser Orioles and come back to the South Side.

Pierzynski, in his words, told his mother was going to sign with the Dodgers when he got word that the Sox signed Dunn, and that Kenny wanted A.J. back.

Believe it or not, some players want more than just the almighty dollar.

russ99
02-27-2011, 02:46 PM
I didn't have a huge problem with Jenks' rant when he signed with the Red Sox, as obviously the guy was looking for a big contract from us, and Kenny had enough of the lack of focus on conditioning and unprofessionalism from him, not to mention injuries and personal matters he had to attend to that hit at the absolute worst time for our pen last year. The guy took a big contract hit and a lesser role with Boston so you'd expect him to be upset.

But then he had to go off again when reporting to camp, which Ozzie sloughed off, and now yet again two weeks into spring training when he should be focusing on getting ready for the season with the team he's now with.

I don't blame Ozzie one iota for his comments, Bobby's way off base trying to disrupt the Sox camp with comments he's already spouted off twice.

I guess the good thing out of this is that Ozzie said those things, and not his son.

Noneck
02-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Didn't Pierzynski and Konerko take LESS money this year in order to come back because of Dunn?

Konerko was offered a huge deal by the Orioles, but turned it down. Konerko, almost as much as money (if not moreso), also wanted a place where he had a chance to win. When he saw that Kenny was dedicated to making this team a winner with the Dunn signing, he decided to forgo the extra millions toiling for the perennial loser Orioles and come back to the South Side.

Pierzynski, in his words, told his mother was going to sign with the Dodgers when he got word that the Sox signed Dunn, and that Kenny wanted A.J. back.

Believe it or not, some players want more than just the almighty dollar.

I said contract not just the almighty buck. Of course winning comes in play but no one has any idea what was offered by other teams.

My point is that a little distraction may be worth getting a nice contract.

Sockinchisox
02-27-2011, 03:30 PM
Francona has stepped in and told Bobby to shut the **** up.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/francona-steps-in-to-stop-jenks-guillen-feud.html

Bob Roarman
02-27-2011, 04:07 PM
I don't know. If Ozzie was such a HORRID individual to be around, and could be nothing but a distraction to the players?

Konerko must not care.

Dunn must not care.

Alexei must not care.

Mark Buehrle must not care

Omar Visquel must not care.

AJ Pierzynski must not care.

Need I go on? Even Frank Thomas, who got into it fiercely with the organization and Kenny a few years ago is back as an ambassador. I agree with this mornings WSCR hosts:

The Red Sox need to tell Bobby to shut up and ignore questions about Chicago/don't talk to Chicago based reporters. They need to tell him that he's now in Boston, and they sign his checks, not the White Sox.

I'm not saying Ozzie is a bad guy, he just has to know that by lashing out like this doesn't help his cause or the club's at all. Not a single bit. It's okay to defend yourself as far as the game itself goes, but to go and start talking about the guy's private life out in public, talking about how Jenks was lucky to have been given a week off so he could watch his kids while a relative was sick, that doesn't need to be said, that's just dumb. Why go there, why say anything about that? That's over the line, whether or not it was "bad" or "good" or that Bobby was lucky, that's the first I ever heard about that, and I'm pretty sure it was kept private for a reason. Why make comments like none of the White Sox players have Jenks' phone number?

Why put your trustworthiness on the line for something like this? Because while it may burn Jenks, he's not on the team anymore, and Ozzie has his own players to worry about. I agree as well, Jenks is Boston's problem now, they have to tell him to shut up and stop making drama, and it looks like what they've done. And that's to my point: There's nothing Ozzie can do or say that will put his club in a better light. Not now, not after Oney and not after his own comments. So he just needs to stop and do what he keeps telling his son to do, take the high road.

Frontman
02-27-2011, 05:20 PM
And this argument is OVAH!

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/francona-steps-in-to-stop-jenks-guillen-feud.html

Someone from outside the squabble had to say something. Time to move on, for all involved.

Fenway
02-27-2011, 05:22 PM
Francona says enough is enough - Bobby is a Red Sox now....

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/02/terry_francona_2.html

Frontman
02-27-2011, 05:22 PM
I'm not saying Ozzie is a bad guy, he just has to know that by lashing out like this doesn't help his cause or the club's at all. Not a single bit. It's okay to defend yourself as far as the game itself goes, but to go and start talking about the guy's private life out in public, talking about how Jenks was lucky to have been given a week off so he could watch his kids while a relative was sick, that doesn't need to be said, that's just dumb. Why go there, why say anything about that? That's over the line, whether or not it was "bad" or "good" or that Bobby was lucky, that's the first I ever heard about that, and I'm pretty sure it was kept private for a reason. Why make comments like none of the White Sox players have Jenks' phone number?

Why put your trustworthiness on the line for something like this? Because while it may burn Jenks, he's not on the team anymore, and Ozzie has his own players to worry about. I agree as well, Jenks is Boston's problem now, they have to tell him to shut up and stop making drama, and it looks like what they've done. And that's to my point: There's nothing Ozzie can do or say that will put his club in a better light. Not now, not after Oney and not after his own comments. So he just needs to stop and do what he keeps telling his son to do, take the high road.

Both of them got personal, though. Jenks shouldn't of mentioned Ozzie's kids if he didn't want his family stuff brought into it. Yes, Oney is a "public" figure (and I do use that term VERY FREAKIN' LOOSELY) but he shouldn't of said anything beyond Ozzie's skill as a manager. Ozzie shouldn't of said, "I could kill Bobby," knowing how the media loves to edit soundbytes.

But, as I posted, this is a dead issue.....hopefully. I think its high time for both parties to focus on tomorrow and the first spring training action.

MARTINMVP
02-27-2011, 05:25 PM
OMG, this is pretty embarrassing - at least I would feel embarrassed if I were Ozzie. Can't blame for Francona for stepping though. He doesn't want the silly distractions.

Fenway
02-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Francona is NOT happy with Rogers....

Bob Roarman
02-27-2011, 05:38 PM
Ozzie could've done this himself. But he had to keep shooting out those jabs. I agree, it is embarrassing.

Frontman
02-27-2011, 05:39 PM
OMG, this is pretty embarrassing - at least I would feel embarrassed if I were Ozzie. Can't blame for Francona for stepping though. He doesn't want the silly distractions.

Um, why? Because someone said this has gotten out of control?

Yeah, like that's NEVER happened to anyone who isn't a baseball manager.....

Time for it to be over, but let's not get nuts now. Ozzie and Bobby both were wrong, Rogers was wrong for stirring the pot, and now it should be over.

Bob Roarman
02-27-2011, 05:44 PM
When have you seen behavior and problems stemming from some of the absurd places (the managers son) like this before? When have you seen a manager publicly threaten a former player with the outing of his personal problems before? You haven't. This whole thing was mishandled because of ****ing ego.

FreeBuck12
02-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Cue the circus music.

guillensdisciple
02-27-2011, 05:52 PM
I am not embarrassed. Ozzie did what he should have done.

soltrain21
02-27-2011, 05:53 PM
Sorry, Ozzie. Time for you to go to bed without dinner.

MARTINMVP
02-27-2011, 05:54 PM
Um, why? Because someone said this has gotten out of control?

Yeah, like that's NEVER happened to anyone who isn't a baseball manager.....

Time for it to be over, but let's not get nuts now. Ozzie and Bobby both were wrong, Rogers was wrong for stirring the pot, and now it should be over.

It is embarrassing. First, this should have never had escalated in the first place. Ozzie should have let Jenks said what he said, and moved on. By talking, it became a bigger story than it needed two me. Second, it took an equal colleague of Ozzie's to interject, telling them to cool it.

If players ever decide they don't want to play for the White Sox because of Ozzie, it won't be because people like Jenks talk after they leave the team. They are going to see the constant sideshow **** that comes from Ozzie's mouth, think about his son, Twittergate, etc., and make that decision for themselves.

Last year's Twitter crap didn't stop Adam Dunn from wanting to play here, nor did it stop Paulie or AJ from wanting to come back. That is excellent. This **** keeps up and who knows if players will still want to player for Ozzie.

DirtySox
02-27-2011, 05:55 PM
Embarrassing.

MARTINMVP
02-27-2011, 05:56 PM
When have you seen behavior and problems stemming from some of the absurd places (the managers son) like this before? When have you seen a manager publicly threaten a former player with the outing of his personal problems before? You haven't. This whole thing was mishandled because of ****ing ego.

You are 100% correct. This is the very stuff that has the potential to keep players in the future from wanting to play for the White Sox. We are lucky that Paulie and AJ wanted to come back, and that Dunn was willing to come here.

soltrain21
02-27-2011, 05:56 PM
Both of them got personal, though. Jenks shouldn't of mentioned Ozzie's kids if he didn't want his family stuff brought into it. Yes, Oney is a "public" figure (and I do use that term VERY FREAKIN' LOOSELY) but he shouldn't of said anything beyond Ozzie's skill as a manager. Ozzie shouldn't of said, "I could kill Bobby," knowing how the media loves to edit soundbytes.

But, as I posted, this is a dead issue.....hopefully. I think its high time for both parties to focus on tomorrow and the first spring training action.

When did Bobby bring up Oney? Jenks said "he was looking forward to a manager that knew how to run a bullpen" and then Oney out of nowhere exploded on him talking about how he was a drunk that beat his wife and he knew all of these things about Jenks' life.

Fenway
02-27-2011, 05:56 PM
Cue the circus music.

That is exactly what Francona is trying to stop....

Francona NEVER has outed a player - he believes everything stays in-house.

He is the best Boston manager of my lifetime - maybe the best ever. Dick Williams couldn't handle the media and clubhouse politics, Zimmer was too stubborn....and Grady was an idiot.

SOXSINCE'70
02-27-2011, 05:58 PM
Francona is NOT happy with Rogers....

Phil the Phake strikes again.:angry:

Frontman
02-27-2011, 08:34 PM
You are 100% correct. This is the very stuff that has the potential to keep players in the future from wanting to play for the White Sox. We are lucky that Paulie and AJ wanted to come back, and that Dunn was willing to come here.

Oh please. We didn't get "lucky" with AJ/Paulie/Dunn. AJ and Paulie probably ignore the drama away from the field and focus on the play on the field. They had an opportunity to leave, but chose to come back. To me, that speaks to both their character, and the character of Ozzie.

Ozzie has been Ozzie for years. Players keep wanting to come to the White Sox.

Guys who don't want to stay, or leave with a bad taste in their mouths?
Guys like Orlando Cabrerra, Bobby Jenks.

Guys who leave and don't say one word against the Sox?
Jim Thome

And this whole "Ozzie shouldn't of said anything" is just junk. Ozzie detractors would be hating the fact Ozzie didn't speak up for himself or his team.

The only part I'll agree with is the whole Oney thing. Oney is an idiot; pure and simple. His opinion isn't worth the bandwith it takes to read it.

And as the New York Yankees show, doesn't matter how comfortable coming to the team is. If enough dollars are handed to a player, they'll put up with an awful lot of junk away from the field.

Frontman
02-27-2011, 08:39 PM
When did Bobby bring up Oney? Jenks said "he was looking forward to a manager that knew how to run a bullpen" and then Oney out of nowhere exploded on him talking about how he was a drunk that beat his wife and he knew all of these things about Jenks' life.

He brought it up with his "middle child syndrome" comment about Oney. This was a dead issue until Phil Rogers brought it back up. If Bobby wanted to be left alone; he should of left well enough alone.

DirtySox
02-27-2011, 08:41 PM
And this whole "Ozzie shouldn't of said anything" is just junk. Ozzie detractors would be hating the fact Ozzie didn't speak up for himself or his team.

Ozzie doesn't have to keep his mouth shut. He can defend himself and his family all he wants, but he doesn't have to air out personal issues, or use ugly threats about ripping out throats and guts. Is a little tact too much to ask for?

TomBradley72
02-27-2011, 08:45 PM
Francona is NOT happy with Rogers....

Jenks is a veteran- never should have taken the bait- blaming Rogers is silly- Jenks is a 7 year veteran who has made millions of dollars-he's no "victim" in this.

Frontman
02-27-2011, 08:49 PM
Jenks is a veteran- never should have taken the bait- blaming Rogers is silly- Jenks is a 7 year veteran who has made millions of dollars-he's no "victim" in this.

Hence the continuing problem with Bobby. The man's had a rough time, nobody will doubt or argue that, but there comes a time he's got to stop acting as if he's a victim and accept some responsibility.

spawn
02-27-2011, 08:50 PM
I don't think we need two threads about the same issue.

LITTLE NELL
02-27-2011, 08:51 PM
I thought the drama was over.
I for one wanted Ozzie and his circus gone after last season. I know Jenks is mostly at fault in this but J.R. needs to read Ozzie the riot act and if Ozzie continues with the diarrhea of the mouth he needs to go, contract or no contract.
Enough of this BS, we have a division and possibly more to win.

spawn
02-27-2011, 08:53 PM
What people have to understand is players often lash out when an organization they've been with for a long time informs them they are no longer wanted.

There are iconic players in the history of this franchise -- Big Frank, Pudge, hell, even Ozzie himself -- who left this organization on bad terms.

There is no question in my mind Bobby Jenks enjoyed being a member of the White Sox. Then, the Sox told him he wasn't wanted anymore. That has to hurt. Bobby was upset to be let go, and that's why he's making these remarks. Doesn't make his comments right, but it does make them understandable.

I don't blame Ozzie for firing back either. I happen to think Ozzie does a pretty decent job handling the pitchers. He may not be the best manager in the game, but he's far from the worst I've seen. He has a good enough track record that he deserves a little more respect.

Apparently, Jenks has forgotten which manager gave him his first opportunity in the big leagues, which manager gave him the chance to prove himself on the biggest stage. As time passes, I believe Bobby will see the error of his ways.
Great post.

Bob Roarman
02-27-2011, 09:32 PM
Oh please. We didn't get "lucky" with AJ/Paulie/Dunn. AJ and Paulie probably ignore the drama away from the field and focus on the play on the field. They had an opportunity to leave, but chose to come back. To me, that speaks to both their character, and the character of Ozzie.

Ozzie has been Ozzie for years. Players keep wanting to come to the White Sox.

Guys who don't want to stay, or leave with a bad taste in their mouths?
Guys like Orlando Cabrerra, Bobby Jenks.

Guys who leave and don't say one word against the Sox?
Jim Thome

And this whole "Ozzie shouldn't of said anything" is just junk. Ozzie detractors would be hating the fact Ozzie didn't speak up for himself or his team.

The only part I'll agree with is the whole Oney thing. Oney is an idiot; pure and simple. His opinion isn't worth the bandwith it takes to read it.

And as the New York Yankees show, doesn't matter how comfortable coming to the team is. If enough dollars are handed to a player, they'll put up with an awful lot of junk away from the field.

Remember what Thornton said after Oney was being a dumbass? He said it didn't matter who the player is or what the circumstances were, bringing up personal private issues of that person out in the public was ridiculous and uncalled for. Remember that? Remember how everyone agreed with that? How is what Ozzie said and did now any different (other than it being arguably worse because he talked about it like he was threatening to reveal more) than what Oney did? Like father, like son apparently.

That's not standing up for yourself, your family or the organization you represent. It is the opposite, you put them all in a bad light to the point where another manager has to step in and put an end to it. Nothing positive came of this, it was handled horribly by just about everyone involved. No point was made.

Frontman
02-27-2011, 11:20 PM
Remember what Thornton said after Oney was being a dumbass? He said it didn't matter who the player is or what the circumstances were, bringing up personal private issues of that person out in the public was ridiculous and uncalled for. Remember that? Remember how everyone agreed with that? How is what Ozzie said and did now any different (other than it being arguably worse because he talked about it like he was threatening to reveal more) than what Oney did? Like father, like son apparently.

That's not standing up for yourself, your family or the organization you represent. It is the opposite, you put them all in a bad light to the point where another manager has to step in and put an end to it. Nothing positive came of this, it was handled horribly by just about everyone involved. No point was made.

But, in your book, Ozzie was the one at fault, right?

Bob Roarman
02-28-2011, 01:10 AM
I like how you conveniently dodged the point of my post, but whatever. Ozzie could've easily done what Fracona did. And he almost did. He said he was sad Jenks felt as he did considering they were the ones who gave him his chance and if he just left it at that it would have been fine. But nope, he had to keep swinging, had to have the last word at seemingly any cost, doesn't know when to say when. He has to know better. It's one thing that its his son pulling that crap, that Ozzie is doing it should be intolerable.

doublem23
02-28-2011, 01:12 AM
But, in your book, Ozzie was the one at fault, right?

It's possible for there to be arguments where nobody's right.

cws05champ
02-28-2011, 08:37 AM
Remember what Thornton said after Oney was being a dumbass? He said it didn't matter who the player is or what the circumstances were, bringing up personal private issues of that person out in the public was ridiculous and uncalled for. Remember that? Remember how everyone agreed with that? How is what Ozzie said and did now any different (other than it being arguably worse because he talked about it like he was threatening to reveal more) than what Oney did? Like father, like son apparently.

That's not standing up for yourself, your family or the organization you represent. It is the opposite, you put them all in a bad light to the point where another manager has to step in and put an end to it. Nothing positive came of this, it was handled horribly by just about everyone involved. No point was made.

Agreed...Ozzie's first comments were the best response and after that he should have just shut up. He said something like "It's sad that he feels that way, and unfortunate". If he just shuts it after that, it's a non-issue. I understand people saying he is just defending himself and the Sox, which he was, but his continued comments just made it look petty, especially when you are the leader of a team and not a set up reliever.

doublem23
02-28-2011, 08:46 AM
Agreed...Ozzie's first comments were the best response and after that he should have just shut up. He said something like "It's sad that he feels that way, and unfortunate". If he just shuts it after that, it's a non-issue. I understand people saying he is just defending himself and the Sox, which he was, but his continued comments just made it look petty, especially when you are the leader of a team and not a set up reliever.

I'm only speaking for myself, but it's more that Ozzie always does this than it is what he said. We're all human, sometimes people slip up, maybe a reporter caught him at a bad time or maybe someone really did say something that cut him to the bone. It's not that I neccessarily have a problem with what Ozzie says (though he does have to stop threatening to retaliate against other players, nothing ever good comes of that), it's just that he always has to get the last word in. He's always getting in these situations. An occassional slip up here or there, that's understandable, but it seems like every year, Ozzie is having a war of words with somebody.

SI1020
02-28-2011, 09:03 AM
Then Gene Lamont aka the mannequin or Gandhi Manuel the pacifist must've been the perfect Sox managers for you.

There were Sox fans in the past who complained about them being the opposite of Ozzie.

This is just MY opinion and it may or may not be wrong but, I like the fact that Ozzie, is colorful, fiery, and speaks his mind. That's a horse**** argument and putting words in her mouth she never said. At least you admit you could be wrong.

TheOldRoman
02-28-2011, 09:18 AM
He brought it up with his "middle child syndrome" comment about Oney. This was a dead issue until Phil Rogers brought it back up. If Bobby wanted to be left alone; he should of left well enough alone.But here is the thing, and as I said Bobby was wrong to take the bait, Oney deserved it. Oney is a worthless degenerate. He is the one who threw all the personal stuff out there about Jenks after what Jenks said before. So it isn't like Bobby said something about Ozzie's wife; he wasn't attacking someone at random. When Oney puts himself out there, he better be ready to take the heat. And Oney can't throw barbs and then hide behind daddy's leg while Ozzie stands up for him.

tstrike2000
02-28-2011, 09:27 AM
It's possible for there to be arguments where nobody's right.

That's probably the case here more than anything else. Fenway mentioned Francona told them to knock it off and Francona's philosophy is to keep things in-house. Really wish that would've been the case here and in general.

Fenway
02-28-2011, 09:30 AM
More on Francona

http://www.csnne.com/02/27/11/Notes-Francona-squashes-Jenks-Guillen-be/landing_redsox.html?blockID=429095&feedID=3352

http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_0227tito_calls_end_to_jenks-guillen_feud/

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/02/28/francona_steps_into_one__the_jenks_guillen_feud/

Frontman
02-28-2011, 02:15 PM
But here is the thing, and as I said Bobby was wrong to take the bait, Oney deserved it. Oney is a worthless degenerate. He is the one who threw all the personal stuff out there about Jenks after what Jenks said before. So it isn't like Bobby said something about Ozzie's wife; he wasn't attacking someone at random. When Oney puts himself out there, he better be ready to take the heat. And Oney can't throw barbs and then hide behind daddy's leg while Ozzie stands up for him.

On that point, we're all in agreement. Oney should of kept out of it to begin with.

Rogers threw bait to Jenks, who bit on it. Ozzie then took the bait that Jenks threw out there and went off. Had Oney never started his commentary, this all would of been avoided.

#1swisher
02-28-2011, 06:05 PM
What people have to understand is players often lash out when an organization they've been with for a long time informs them they are no longer wanted.

There are iconic players in the history of this franchise -- Big Frank, Pudge, hell, even Ozzie himself -- who left this organization on bad terms.

There is no question in my mind Bobby Jenks enjoyed being a member of the White Sox. Then, the Sox told him he wasn't wanted anymore. That has to hurt. Bobby was upset to be let go, and that's why he's making these remarks. Doesn't make his comments right, but it does make them understandable.

I don't blame Ozzie for firing back either. I happen to think Ozzie does a pretty decent job handling the pitchers. He may not be the best manager in the game, but he's far from the worst I've seen. He has a good enough track record that he deserves a little more respect.

Apparently, Jenks has forgotten which manager gave him his first opportunity in the big leagues, which manager gave him the chance to prove himself on the biggest stage. As time passes, I believe Bobby will see the error of his ways.

Jenks says in this interview (http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20110225changing_sox_bobby_jenks_settling_in_with_ boston/) that the White Sox did call, that it was too late.