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doublem23
02-25-2011, 03:44 PM
An interesting point, I suppose, Rogers advocates for Ramirez to bat 1st for the Sox and have Pierre bat 9th.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/your-morning-phil-33.html

gobears1987
02-25-2011, 04:08 PM
That's almost as dumb as the Cubs leading off Soriano. Alexei has some pop in his bad and needs to be in a position to drive in guys like PK, Dunn, and TCQ.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01001/alexei_ramirez_080_1001277c.jpg

Would this happen if he were leading off?

Oh well, this is from Rogers so stupid ideas is what I should've expected.

Why put Pierre at 9th anyways? I pretty much assumed that would be Morel's spot.

doublem23
02-25-2011, 04:11 PM
The idea behind batting Pierre 9th would be it creates a double lead-off man idea, but limits Pierre's PA since he makes so many ****ing outs.

The idea probably doesn't work not because of Alexei's power, but more because he never gets on base. .313 OBP from your lead-off hitter? Eh.

gobears1987
02-25-2011, 04:18 PM
The idea behind batting Pierre 9th would be it creates a double lead-off man idea, but limits Pierre's PA since he makes so many ****ing outs.

The idea probably doesn't work not because of Alexei's power, but more because he never gets on base. .313 OBP from your lead-off hitter? Eh.

Alexei at #2 makes more sense than having him lead off, but I still wouldn't do that one either as I think Beckham is the better #2 hitter. Alexei will be 6 or 7. It just depends on where you place TCQ. He might even be an 8 if Ozzie goes L-R-L-R with Dunn, TCQ, AJ, TCM.

doublem23
02-25-2011, 04:21 PM
Alexei at #2 makes more sense than having him lead off, but I still wouldn't do that one either as I think Beckham is the better #2 hitter. Alexei will be 6 or 7. It just depends on where you place TCQ. He might even be an 8 if Ozzie goes L-R-L-R with Dunn, TCQ, AJ, TCM.

I understand that people like the L-R-L lineup, but really, AJ shouldn't be hitting anywhere higher than a spot above Morel at this point, and if Brent shows a little flash, maybe even just 9th. AJ's just not a good hitter at this point.

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-25-2011, 05:43 PM
I understand that people like the L-R-L lineup, but really, AJ shouldn't be hitting anywhere higher than a spot above Morel at this point, and if Brent shows a little flash, maybe even just 9th. AJ's just not a good hitter at this point.

I agree. I don't see why A.J. hits 8th with Morel 9th. I'd have it as Pierre, Beckham, Rios, Dunn, Konerko, Quentin, Ramirez, A.J., then Morel. But that does leave the 8, 9, and 1 spot pretty average, considering we have no clue how Morel will bat in a full season.

eriqjaffe
02-25-2011, 05:55 PM
I know that math isn't Phil's strong suit, but really...

He doesn't get on base as often as Pierre (a .313 on-base percentage, compared to Pierre's .341) but he does a lot more damage at the plate, and makes fewer outs.

Actually, Phil, he does make more outs. Approximately 2.8% more. :rolleyes:

SOXSINCE'70
02-25-2011, 07:36 PM
Phil the Phake strikes again.:angry:

doublem23
02-25-2011, 07:50 PM
Actually, Phil, he does make more outs. Approximately 2.8% more. :rolleyes:

In fairness to Phil, Pierre lead the Sox in outs made last season (515), Alexei was 2nd (452), but that has a lot to do with the fact that Juan over 100 more PA than Alexei.

TheVulture
02-25-2011, 10:16 PM
In fairness to Phil, Pierre lead the Sox in outs made last season (515), Alexei was 2nd (452), but that has a lot to do with the fact that Juan over 100 more PA than Alexei.

That's brilliant. Lillibridge only made 76 outs, he clearly would be the best option.

HaroMaster87
02-25-2011, 11:15 PM
That's brilliant. Lillibridge only made 76 outs, he clearly would be the best option.


haha...ZING!!

rdivaldi
02-26-2011, 12:03 AM
I really think Phil stopped trying years ago. Either that or he has zero respect for the people who read his column. I can't believe that he honestly thinks that Alexei should be the lead-off man because he made "less outs" than Pierre. Ugh.

spawn
02-26-2011, 08:48 AM
The idea behind batting Pierre 9th would be it creates a double lead-off man idea, but limits Pierre's PA since he makes so many ****ing outs.

The idea probably doesn't work not because of Alexei's power, but more because he never gets on base. .313 OBP from your lead-off hitter? Eh.
Well, according to Phil, OBP isn't what you need out of your leadoff hitter...it's OPS. I also love how he says Pierre doesn't walk much. He walked twice as much as Alexei did. Regarding the extra basehit argument, he makes up for it in the SB department. Phil being Phil.

tacosalbarojas
02-26-2011, 07:08 PM
It just never ends with this guy. Unreal. Stealing money 8 days a week.

TDog
02-26-2011, 08:56 PM
Ramirez actually has been a pretty good leadoff man in his career, although he has only led off five games, so his .357 batting average and on-base percentage aren't terribly significant.

If Ramirez gets on base, it doesn't matter if he hits or he walk. He's more dangerous if his on-base percentage is more about hitting than walking, of course. But as much as I like Ramirez, he hasn't shown he will hit early in the season.

Ramirez is probably best suited on the team to hit second, especially behind a base-stealer. He is a good fastball hitter. He hits well deep in the count, although I would like to see him cut down on his strikeouts. If the bottom of the order is getting on base, the leadoff man and No. 2 hitters will be presented with RBI opportunities. Even your leadoff hitter may only hit with no one on base once a game.

Leading off Ramirez isn't a ridiculous idea. I don't think Ramirez is the best option to lead off, though, especially in April. Still, I'm not sure Pierre in April would do much better.

Brian26
02-26-2011, 09:30 PM
Leading off Ramirez isn't a ridiculous idea.

It's not ridiculous at all. This is not even close to the worst idea Phil Rogers has ever presented, and it actually makes some sense if you think out of the box a bit. A leadoff man only leads off once a game, and it's not terrible to have some pop in that postion to drive in the singles hitters at the bottom of the order.

thomas35forever
02-26-2011, 09:34 PM
Pierre led the league in stolen bases last year. I'll have whatever Rogers is smoking or drinking or whatever.

DirtySox
02-26-2011, 09:44 PM
Pierre led the league in stolen bases last year. I'll have whatever Rogers is smoking or drinking or whatever.

Meh. Juan Pierre is far from an optimal leadoff hitter. Unfortunately there aren't many more suitable options.

RowanDye
02-27-2011, 01:09 AM
Meh. Juan Pierre is far from an optimal leadoff hitter. Unfortunately there aren't many more suitable options.

Optimal = the best of available alternatives :scratch:

cws05champ
02-27-2011, 08:46 AM
And when Ramirez starts the first 1.5 months hitting .195, Phil will be the first one to say "What were they thinking? They know he's a slow starter"

russ99
02-27-2011, 11:06 AM
Meh. Juan Pierre is far from an optimal leadoff hitter. Unfortunately there aren't many more suitable options.

I don't get this at all. Who would be considered an optimal lead-off hitter, and how many of those are in the league now?

With the injuries and decline of Reyes, I can think of two: Bourn and Ellsbury.

Pierre is one of the most patient hitters in the league and he almost always puts the ball in play.

Juan scored 96 runs last year, which by my count was second to Austin Jackson for leadoff hitters, and Pierre had similar overall numbers and a boatload of steals more than Jackson.

Sure, his lack of walks lowers his OBP and AVG compared to other players, but the guy is a solid leadoff hitter, and leading the league in steals doesn't hurt either.

Note to Phil: Alexei doesn't have the patience or bat control to hit first or second, and sorry, you really want "pop" lower in the order, not first or second.

TDog
02-27-2011, 01:05 PM
And when Ramirez starts the first 1.5 months hitting .195, Phil will be the first one to say "What were they thinking? They know he's a slow starter"

Pierre hit .193 for the Sox last April.

BainesHOF
02-28-2011, 03:43 AM
Phil Rogers is the worst baseball writer in Chicago history. He's a total joke.