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Lip Man 1
02-22-2011, 06:15 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/williams-not-comfortable-with-soxs-high-payroll.html

Lip

soltrain21
02-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Oh, cool. More "come to the park or we are going to lose so much money" rants from KW. It's expensive, KW. You are lucky for me to get out there when I can. Don't try to alienate me.

thomas35forever
02-22-2011, 07:19 PM
As far as those Pujols comments go, I think it's safe to say Kenny is the anti-Brian Cashman (though where the Sox rank as far as team payroll may indicate otherwise).

kobo
02-22-2011, 08:13 PM
Kenny Williams should realize by now that if the Sox play well and are in contention then the fans will come. I fail to understand his rationale in making statements to the press that if fans don't show they will lose money. We all know that already. It sounds like a threat, like they will never do anything like this again if fans don't come out to the ballpark. KW has done a lot of good for this ballclub, but statements like this really rub me the wrong way.

Red Barchetta
02-22-2011, 09:13 PM
Winning leads to more butts in the seats.

More butts in the seats doesn't lead to winning. Just ask a Cub fan! :rolleyes:

dickallen15
02-22-2011, 09:35 PM
Kenny Williams should realize by now that if the Sox play well and are in contention then the fans will come. I fail to understand his rationale in making statements to the press that if fans don't show they will lose money. We all know that already. It sounds like a threat, like they will never do anything like this again if fans don't come out to the ballpark. KW has done a lot of good for this ballclub, but statements like this really rub me the wrong way.

Exactly. If the fans don't show up, it means you aren't playing well which means you deserve to lose money.

TDog
02-22-2011, 09:59 PM
Exactly. If the fans don't show up, it means you aren't playing well which means you deserve to lose money.

Which means you need to cut your payroll to a level where you can be profitable without paying for proven talent.

If the media would stop asking White Sox management about money, if the fans would stop fixating on the issue, this wouldn't be an issue.

gosox41
02-22-2011, 10:18 PM
Which means you need to cut your payroll to a level where you can be profitable without paying for proven talent.

If the media would stop asking White Sox management about money, if the fans would stop fixating on the issue, this wouldn't be an issue.

Well said.

Ranger
02-23-2011, 05:51 AM
Which means you need to cut your payroll to a level where you can be profitable without paying for proven talent.

If the media would stop asking White Sox management about money, if the fans would stop fixating on the issue, this wouldn't be an issue.

This is the correct sentiment. It only becomes an issue because they keep asking him about payroll/contracts in some way, shape, or form. He's only giving honest answers, which is ironic, really, because fans are always demanding that the organization tells them the truth. In that regard, you have to pick one: The team tells you like it is, or they tell you what you want to hear.

As for the Pujols thing, I'm sure Williams would like to have Albert, but only at the right price. If he could afford Pujols AND have enough left over to do what needs to be done, he'd do it. I also completely understand why Kenny would want a sport that's capped in some way. I would figure a GM like him would do well in that sort of environment.

guillensdisciple
02-23-2011, 08:03 AM
I would assume we did not do well in ticket sales again this season. Hopefully, I am wrong, but if that's the case- shame on us.

BringHomeDaBacon
02-23-2011, 08:17 AM
KW's team has had the support to have been either first or second in divisional payroll in each of his ten years and he only has two divisional titles to show for it. Recently, he's had the luxury of adding contracts that other teams no longer wanted (Peavy and Rios). This year, his boss has allowed him to fill a glaring hole of his own creation via a top dollar free agent acquisition (Dunn). If he can't win under all of these favorable circumstances he needs to look at himself - not the fans.

dickallen15
02-23-2011, 08:32 AM
This is the correct sentiment. It only becomes an issue because they keep asking him about payroll/contracts in some way, shape, or form. He's only giving honest answers, which is ironic, really, because fans are always demanding that the organization tells them the truth. In that regard, you have to pick one: The team tells you like it is, or they tell you what you want to hear.

As for the Pujols thing, I'm sure Williams would like to have Albert, but only at the right price. If he could afford Pujols AND have enough left over to do what needs to be done, he'd do it. I also completely understand why Kenny would want a sport that's capped in some way. I would figure a GM like him would do well in that sort of environment.

He's had a payroll better than most in his division and hasn't run away with anything except once in 10 seasons. As far as answers to payroll go, if you think he's been nothing but honest through the years, you haven't really paid attention. He scored major points with JR for his latest comments. I remember when he was almost in tears because he couldn't pay Jose Canseco what KW thought he was worth.

Carolina Kenny
02-23-2011, 09:15 AM
The Sox have a long and storied history of pleading with the Sox fans for attendence.

I think Harry Carey had an attendance clause, (it's always sunny at the ballpark, come on out plenty of seats still available.)

Veeck used to get down on his knee (one) and beg and plead Sox fans to come on out and support the boys.

The Sunshine Boys threatened to leave town unless attendance improved.

The beat goes on.

russ99
02-23-2011, 09:38 AM
I would assume we did not do well in ticket sales again this season. Hopefully, I am wrong, but if that's the case- shame on us.

From what I've heard, sales have done better in general, but the usual culprits, April and May are lacking.

It would be interesting to see if Kenny could still be an effective GM if the playing field were "leveled".

Fenway
02-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Ed Sherman just posted about KW's remarks yesterday

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog%3Af5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost%3Ab604c473-b8

LongLiveFisk
02-23-2011, 10:03 AM
From what I've heard, sales have done better in general, but the usual culprits, April and May are lacking.

It would be interesting to see if Kenny could still be an effective GM if the playing field were "leveled".

April and May are not good because 1) weather; and 2) many Sox fans like to wait and see how the team is doing before buying tickets, and these two months it's a little too early to tell (excluding, WSI, anyway:tongue:)...

When the team is doing well, the walk-up sales are excellent. We don't have the luxury of selling our ballpark as a tourist attraction, like someone else nearby.

ewokpelts
02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
I would assume we did not do well in ticket sales again this season. Hopefully, I am wrong, but if that's the case- shame on us.90% plus in renewals for Season Tickets. I think they're doing ok. The real worry is walk-up sales, which is why Kenny's beating the "buy now" drum.

russ99
02-23-2011, 11:37 AM
90% plus in renewals for Season Tickets. I think they're doing ok. The real worry is walk-up sales, which is why Kenny's beating the "buy now" drum.

They've also sold a lot more Ozzie plans.

I wonder when/how they're going to implement the variable pricing scheme that was discussed last fall, or if that was shelved due to "All In"...

If early walkup is as expected/usual, and they then drop some prices to fill seats, I'd be inclined to roll the dice on the weather for a few more April and early May games.

LongLiveFisk
02-23-2011, 11:57 AM
If early walkup is as expected/usual, and they then drop some prices to fill seats, I'd be inclined to roll the dice on the weather for a few more April and early May games.

I'd love to see them market these seats a little better. You have half the upper deck empty on an April night ordinarily, right? How about a two-for-one deal or something like that? More people in the park = more $$$ and isn't that what KW wants?

Just a suggestion, don't flame me. :tongue:

Lip Man 1
02-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Carolina:

The "Sunshine Boys" (Roland Hemond and Chuck Tanner) went to John Allyn and threatened to leave if Stu Holcolm wasn't fired / retired, not because of attendence.

Holcomb ordered Hemond to release (that's right, not try to trade...release) any player who wouldn't take the Sox contract offer. The Sox lost Andrews, Spezio, Johnstone, Reichardt that way. When Stan Bahnsen (a 21 game winner) refused to sign a Sox deal, Holcomb ordered Hemond to release him.

Hemond and Tanner went to Allyn and said, "it's him or us..."

Allyn called a press conference in the middle of the 73 season and said Holcomb was "retiring."

Lip

ewokpelts
02-23-2011, 01:00 PM
They've also sold a lot more Ozzie plans.

I wonder when/how they're going to implement the variable pricing scheme that was discussed last fall, or if that was shelved due to "All In"...

If early walkup is as expected/usual, and they then drop some prices to fill seats, I'd be inclined to roll the dice on the weather for a few more April and early May games.i think the variable pricing experiemnt was a fail.

stubhub has very good deals on april/may tix.

ewokpelts
02-23-2011, 01:01 PM
I'd love to see them market these seats a little better. You have half the upper deck empty on an April night ordinarily, right? How about a two-for-one deal or something like that? More people in the park = more $$$ and isn't that what KW wants?

Just a suggestion, don't flame me. :tongue:just look for a code.

russ99
02-23-2011, 01:38 PM
i think the variable pricing experiemnt was a fail.

stubhub has very good deals on april/may tix.

Cool. I'm much more inclined to make a day or two before decision if I can get a deal on Stub Hub.

soltrain21
02-23-2011, 01:44 PM
i think the variable pricing experiemnt was a fail.

stubhub has very good deals on april/may tix.

Didn't they try it when no one gave a crap about the season anymore?

ewokpelts
02-23-2011, 02:14 PM
Didn't they try it when no one gave a crap about the season anymore?
:reinsy:

yep

DonnieDarko
02-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Can't afford tickets until my tax return comes in.

C'mon, IRS! Hurry the hell up already!

Ranger
02-23-2011, 04:04 PM
KW's team has had the support to have been either first or second in divisional payroll in each of his ten years and he only has two divisional titles to show for it. Recently, he's had the luxury of adding contracts that other teams no longer wanted (Peavy and Rios). This year, his boss has allowed him to fill a glaring hole of his own creation via a top dollar free agent acquisition (Dunn). If he can't win under all of these favorable circumstances he needs to look at himself - not the fans.

That's completely missing the point. He gave a straight answer to a direct question. Not sure what more you can want or why it needs to be dissected.

He's had a payroll better than most in his division and hasn't run away with anything except once in 10 seasons. As far as answers to payroll go, if you think he's been nothing but honest through the years, you haven't really paid attention. He scored major points with JR for his latest comments. I remember when he was almost in tears because he couldn't pay Jose Canseco what KW thought he was worth.

Honest in his opinions? I think he absolutely has been brutally honest in what he thinks about certain topics. Honest about the specifics of the payroll and how much they have? What good negotiator would ever say publicly how much money they have to spend? "Yeah, our payroll is at $125 mil now and we have exactly $10 million more we can spend." Why the hell would anyone ever do anything like that?

He didn't "score any points" with those comments. You just think that he did. JR's desire to keep or fire Kenny will have nothing to do with the fact that Kenny is uncomfortable with the amount that's been spent.

Ranger
02-23-2011, 04:05 PM
April and May are not good because 1) weather; and 2) many Sox fans like to wait and see how the team is doing before buying tickets, and these two months it's a little too early to tell (excluding, WSI, anyway:tongue:)...

When the team is doing well, the walk-up sales are excellent. We don't have the luxury of selling our ballpark as a tourist attraction, like someone else nearby.

Which is exactly what everyone is hoping fans don't do this year.

Hitmen77
02-23-2011, 04:56 PM
April and May are not good because 1) weather; and 2) many Sox fans like to wait and see how the team is doing before buying tickets, and these two months it's a little too early to tell (excluding, WSI, anyway:tongue:)...

When the team is doing well, the walk-up sales are excellent. We don't have the luxury of selling our ballpark as a tourist attraction, like someone else nearby.

You bring up a good point here about the difficulties in selling a lot of tickets to April/May games. The reality is that those tickets - especially weeknight games - are always going to be a tougher sell because weather is often not great and kids are still in school.

Teams that don't have this problem are teams where 1) a huge number of season ticket holders account for a lot of ticket sales in those games, 2) fans find tickets for mid-season games too expensive or too hard to come by, or 3) they have a "tourist attraction" thing going for their park and/or franchise.

The Sox are never going to be in that 3rd category. So, at this point in time, the Sox have to rely on walk-up sales for early games since it takes a while after on-the-field success for 1) or 2) to happen. It happened for the Sox in 2006. After the WS win, they sold out season ticket packages and there was a rush when tickets went on sale in February to grab tickets while good seats were still available. Once this happens, it doesn't matter that the weather is rainy or miserably cold in late April - the tickets are already sold.

But right now, there is no rush for people to buy April/May tickets now simply because fans know that they can get good seats if they get tickets later. It's not a matter of Sox fans still holding back and not wanting to commit to this team yet. If the Cubs or any other "top draw" franchise didn't have a huge, season-long demand well established to give fans a sense of urgency of grabbing early season tickets, they'd find the April and May games to be a tough sell too....in which case they'd also be at the mercy of walk up sales that can tank with bad weather or lousy team performance.

It really just comes down to supply and demand - which takes time to build up.