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View Full Version : Sale to Start the Year in the Bullpen


DirtySox
02-17-2011, 02:04 PM
ChuckGarfien Chuck Garfien
Kenny Williams makes it official. Chris Sale will start the season in the bullpen.
6 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/ChuckGarfien/status/38326793719132161)

delben91
02-17-2011, 02:05 PM
So the 5th spot to start the year is: Humber v. Pena v. ?

DirtySox
02-17-2011, 02:06 PM
So the 5th spot to start the year is: Humber v. Pena v. ?

And Harrell. Yucky. Though they probably will be skipping the 5th starter if the schedule allows.

asindc
02-17-2011, 02:17 PM
Good news. It's consistent with the 'going for it now' approach.

dwitt76
02-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Maybe this means Peavy is going to be ready to be the 5th starter to start the season.

veeter
02-17-2011, 02:25 PM
This is a very smart decision. Don't log too many innings on his arm. He's already proven to be a great pen guy. Then he slides into the rotation next year. With Buehrle and Jackson maybe leaving and Danks reluctant to sign, Sale will be in the rotation in 2012 and beyond.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Good call by the Sox...this is where he belongs, a kid who has the potential to be a dominent closer and affect more games than if he were to pitch every fifth day.

Lip

djcollie03
02-17-2011, 02:41 PM
I think this is the right idea. The pen looks a lot better with Sale in it. I'm crossing my fingers that Peavy will be able to compete this year. I still think that our 1-4 is just as good as most teams in the AL. Let's just hope it's not the dreaded 5th starter issue from a few years ago. I'm so happy baseball is back.

doublem23
02-17-2011, 02:44 PM
I also hope this implies that we can expect to see Peavy sooner rather than later

JermaineDye05
02-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Danks really needs to take that next step.

Also, Gavin cannot start off slow again this year.

Domeshot17
02-17-2011, 02:55 PM
Dislike, but its still good for 2012 team. I just pray Tony Pena is not given a real look at the 5th spot. He is even worse as a starter than as a reliever. We would be better off with Humber or Harrell then Pena.

Domeshot17
02-17-2011, 02:55 PM
Good call by the Sox...this is where he belongs, a kid who has the potential to be a dominent closer and affect more games than if he were to pitch every fifth day.

Lip

Do you mean for 2012 or for good? For 2012 I agree, but Ace SP will always trump closer. Always

Corlose 15
02-17-2011, 03:04 PM
I also hope this implies that we can expect to see Peavy sooner rather than later

His MRI was normal and his bullpen session seemed to go well today.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/peavy-prepares-for-mound-session.html

Lip Man 1
02-17-2011, 03:25 PM
Dome:

I think I was talking long term. Although I see your point about very good starting pitchers too.

Lip

SephClone89
02-17-2011, 03:30 PM
I think this is 100% the right move for 2011. A lot of experts around the game seem to think he could be a top of the rotation guy in the future, so I'd like to see him get a full shake at the rotation next season and I'm sure he will with Jackson and Buehrle potentially coming off the books.

Wherever he ends up, I love seeing a hard-throwing lefty with good stuff, barely a half-year older than me on the team. He also looks about as skinny as me, though about 9 inches taller.

hawkjt
02-17-2011, 03:33 PM
This pleases me,since it indicates that the Sox brass feel good about the rotation without Sale.
And more importantly, it might mean Sale will be allowed to slowly work into MLB, giving him time to build arm strength before attempting a starting pitchers stress.

Sale as closer works for me.

Only downside is that nasty April/May schedule with only 4 off days in the first 62 days....which will not allow much skipping of the #5 starter spot...bad luck on that front.

kittle42
02-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Sale as closer works for me.

Me, too - but possibly not for Ozzie.

http://rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3751/matt-thornton

Ranger
02-17-2011, 05:41 PM
Dislike, but its still good for 2012 team. I just pray Tony Pena is not given a real look at the 5th spot. He is even worse as a starter than as a reliever. We would be better off with Humber or Harrell then Pena.

No reason to dislike anything that's good for the 2012 team.

Me, too - but possibly not for Ozzie.

http://rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3751/matt-thornton

I feel the opposite, but I think it's good that they'll take time to make the decision. No need to make it now.

Ranger
02-17-2011, 05:46 PM
I'll add that I feel that way because I really like how the pen sets up when Thornton is allowed to be in the setup role. As spring goes on, though, it may prove that he would help them better as the closer.

WhiteSox5187
02-17-2011, 05:49 PM
No reason to dislike anything that's good for the 2012 team.



I feel the opposite, but I think it's good that they'll take time to make the decision. No need to make it now.

If the plan is to make Sale a starter in 2012 then it's a bad idea to put him in the pen for 2011. There is a bigger difference between starting and the bullpen than just innings pitched (which you know), if Sale is going to be a starter in 2012 it's best he starts in the minors that year.

Zisk77
02-17-2011, 06:00 PM
If the plan is to make Sale a starter in 2012 then it's a bad idea to put him in the pen for 2011. There is a bigger difference between starting and the bullpen than just innings pitched (which you know), if Sale is going to be a starter in 2012 it's best he starts in the minors that year.

Beurhle was a reliever in 2000 and a starter in 2001 seemed to work out. I don't see why this would be detrimental at all. Now if in June you decide he is going to be a starter thane yeah, bad idea. Many starting pitchers began in the pen and started the next year. In fact, that is the way most teams did it with young pitchers as Hawk likes to point out ad nauesem.

Daver
02-17-2011, 06:36 PM
Beurhle was a reliever in 2000 and a starter in 2001 seemed to work out. I don't see why this would be detrimental at all.

You're comparing apples to kumquats.

doublem23
02-17-2011, 07:02 PM
Beurhle was a reliever in 2000 and a starter in 2001 seemed to work out. I don't see why this would be detrimental at all. Now if in June you decide he is going to be a starter thane yeah, bad idea. Many starting pitchers began in the pen and started the next year. In fact, that is the way most teams did it with young pitchers as Hawk likes to point out ad nauesem.

That's a totally different scenario, though, Buehrle started over 30 games in the minors before being called up in late 2000.

SOXSINCE'70
02-17-2011, 07:10 PM
Maybe this means Peavy is going to be ready to be the 5th starter to start the season.

It could also mean the Sox let Peavy rehab until mid May and bring him back more ready than he might be if he breaks camp with the club at the end of March.If Peavy is even 80-85 % healthy,he will be an anchor as the fifth starter. .Early on, that seems to be where Peavy will pitch once he comes back.At least if you believe what you hear on the news.

mzh
02-17-2011, 07:16 PM
I'm fine with it for this year, as with Peavy we already have 5 solid starters. But I think it would be a gigantic waste of talent to keep him there for good without a chance to start.

Buehrle spent his first full year in the pen. No complaints with having a good pen.

Ranger
02-17-2011, 09:03 PM
If the plan is to make Sale a starter in 2012 then it's a bad idea to put him in the pen for 2011. There is a bigger difference between starting and the bullpen than just innings pitched (which you know), if Sale is going to be a starter in 2012 it's best he starts in the minors that year.

Not really. Like I've said before, he'll have to pitch a full year in the majors before they'd realistically ask him to throw 170+ innings. Nothing is going to prepare him for the majors except pitching in the majors. He'll be able to do enough starter's work in the offseason and in spring training of next year to be able to go 140 or more next season, which is probably all he'd be asked to do anyway in his first year.

And, above all, the best thing for the team is what matters most. Sale in the bullpen is best for the White Sox for this season, so that's where he belongs. It's the correct and only move, really. He doesn't need to start in Triple A to get him ready for 2012. Don't forget he's also gaining valuable big league experience this year. This doesn't hurt him.

Foulke You
02-18-2011, 01:06 AM
I'll add that I feel that way because I really like how the pen sets up when Thornton is allowed to be in the setup role. As spring goes on, though, it may prove that he would help them better as the closer.
I kind've look at Thornton and Sale as interchangeable parts. They are both dominating left handers that throw smoke. Couldn't Sale simply slide into the "Thornton Role" in the 7th/8th innings while Thornton assumes the closing duties? I'm not completely against Sale closing but I often hear the argument that Thornton is "too valuable" where he is at, but I think people are forgetting that Sale then becomes the new set up guy.

ShooterMcGavin
02-18-2011, 03:32 AM
I also hope this implies that we can expect to see Peavy sooner rather than later

+1.

Herm Edwards agrees; YOU PLAY. TO WIN. THE GAME, or in this case, the 2011 World Series. We're a much better team with a dominant Jake Peavy in the rotation and a dominant Chris Sale in the bullpen.



That said, Chris Sale needs to be a starter in 2012.

soxnut1018
02-18-2011, 04:11 AM
I kind've look at Thornton and Sale as interchangeable parts. They are both dominating left handers that throw smoke. Couldn't Sale simply slide into the "Thornton Role" in the 7th/8th innings while Thornton assumes the closing duties? I'm not completely against Sale closing but I often hear the argument that Thornton is "too valuable" where he is at, but I think people are forgetting that Sale then becomes the new set up guy.

I'm not ready to say that Sale=Thornton.

TaylorStSox
02-18-2011, 07:44 AM
I don't really like it. The kid has some of the best LH stuff you'll ever see, maybe since Randy Johnson. His upside is so high that it's worth the risk to make him a starter. Even as a closer, he's too good to be a reliever.

hawkjt
02-18-2011, 08:04 AM
I don't really like it. The kid has some of the best LH stuff you'll ever see, maybe since Randy Johnson. His upside is so high that it's worth the risk to make him a starter. Even as a closer, he's too good to be a reliever.


If his stuff is that good, why would one year in the bullpen ruin him as a starter for the next decade?

The choice here is...either be the closer on the Sox this year or go to the minors and be a starter,and come up next year.

What it comes down to is...what is more important; winning a world series this year,or developing Chris Sale as a starter for next year?

I like Sale,but do not put his development as a starter ahead of organizational success.

Moses_Scurry
02-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Not really. Like I've said before, he'll have to pitch a full year in the majors before they'd realistically ask him to throw 170+ innings. Nothing is going to prepare him for the majors except pitching in the majors. He'll be able to do enough starter's work in the offseason and in spring training of next year to be able to go 140 or more next season, which is probably all he'd be asked to do anyway in his first year.

And, above all, the best thing for the team is what matters most. Sale in the bullpen is best for the White Sox for this season, so that's where he belongs. It's the correct and only move, really. He doesn't need to start in Triple A to get him ready for 2012. Don't forget he's also gaining valuable big league experience this year. This doesn't hurt him.

The only problem I see (if you want to call it a problem) is that if he has a lights out season as a closer this year, I could see Ozzie and Kenny deciding that he should be the closer permanently, thus wasting his talent as a starter. It would be the same as the Red Sox with Papelsuck. Now, I would much rather have a lights out closer than a bust of a starter if that were to occur, but I really want him to have a chance to start. I feel like 2011 should be a year to guage whether or not Santos could be a closer starting in 2012.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 08:24 AM
It's funny to see people here think they know more baseball than the professionals running things that we pay money to watch and enjoy.

Holy Moses!

kittle42
02-18-2011, 10:46 AM
It's funny to see people here think they know more baseball than the professionals running things that we pay money to watch and enjoy.

Holy Moses!

Ah, yes, the "let's never have an opinion that any decision is wrong because we are not employed by a baseball team" argument. Carry this logic out to everything else in life and you'd be very unhappy.

WhiteSox5187
02-18-2011, 10:58 AM
Not really. Like I've said before, he'll have to pitch a full year in the majors before they'd realistically ask him to throw 170+ innings. Nothing is going to prepare him for the majors except pitching in the majors. He'll be able to do enough starter's work in the offseason and in spring training of next year to be able to go 140 or more next season, which is probably all he'd be asked to do anyway in his first year.

And, above all, the best thing for the team is what matters most. Sale in the bullpen is best for the White Sox for this season, so that's where he belongs. It's the correct and only move, really. He doesn't need to start in Triple A to get him ready for 2012. Don't forget he's also gaining valuable big league experience this year. This doesn't hurt him.

This is probably the best option for 2011, but if the plan is for Sale to be a starter in 2012 it does not help AT ALL. Yea, he'll have major league experience but as a reliever. He will still have never started a game professionally and you would be throwing him to the wolves to have him make his first professional starts in the major leagues.

DirtySox
02-18-2011, 11:12 AM
This is probably the best option for 2011, but if the plan is for Sale to be a starter in 2012 it does not help AT ALL. Yea, he'll have major league experience but as a reliever. He will still have never started a game professionally and you would be throwing him to the wolves to have him make his first professional starts in the major leagues.

Bingo. It's absurd to think that he can just be plopped into the major league rotation next year and everything will be peachy keen.

russ99
02-18-2011, 11:30 AM
Bingo. It's absurd to think that he can just be plopped into the major league rotation next year and everything will be peachy keen.

Worked pretty well for David Price, who's a similar talent.

Experience at getting hitters out at the big league level is vastly more important to a player's development than getting seasoning overmatching weaker hitters playing in AAA.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 11:38 AM
Ah, yes, the "let's never have an opinion that any decision is wrong because we are not employed by a baseball team" argument. Carry this logic out to everything else in life and you'd be very unhappy.


"I can see Kenny and Ozzie deciding he should be the closer permanently, thus wasting his talent as a starter"

It's his opinion that Kenny and Ozzie are ignorant.

It's my opinion that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

You jumped in, why?

kittle42
02-18-2011, 11:50 AM
"I can see Kenny and Ozzie deciding he should be the closer permanently, thus wasting his talent as a starter"

It's his opinion that Kenny and Ozzie are ignorant.

It's my opinion that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

You jumped in, why?

You did not quote a particular post in your initial post and made a blanket statement with logic I find absurd which is unfortunately seen too often in these parts. Thus, I expressed my opinion.

DirtySox
02-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Worked pretty well for David Price, who's a similar talent.

C'mon Russ. Price started 27 games in the minors over the course of 2 seasons. Sale hasn't started a single one.

doublem23
02-18-2011, 12:00 PM
C'mon Russ. Price started 27 games in the minors over the course of 2 seasons. Sale hasn't started a single one.

Price was also a 3-year starter in the SEC, a very good baseball conference, while Sale pitched in the Atlantic Sun Conference against schools like East Tennessee State, Sout Carolina Upstate, and something called Stetson.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 12:02 PM
You did not quote a particular post in your initial post and made a blanket statement with logic I find absurd which is unfortunately seen too often in these parts. Thus, I expressed my opinion.

Fair enough.

Do you, too, feel that KW and OG have no baseball sense?

kittle42
02-18-2011, 12:21 PM
Fair enough.

Do you, too, feel that KW and OG have no baseball sense?

I would not agree with the statement that Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen have no baseball sense, but that is neither here nor there.

Moses_Scurry
02-18-2011, 12:22 PM
"I can see Kenny and Ozzie deciding he should be the closer permanently, thus wasting his talent as a starter"

It's his opinion that Kenny and Ozzie are ignorant.

It's my opinion that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

You jumped in, why?


Maybe "wasting" wasn't the right word to use. I have never said that either Kenny or Ozzie are ignorant, and I certainly don't think I know more than either of them. Hell, I probably am in the lower 50% of people on this board for baseball knowledge. I would just hate to lose what seems to be a damn good starting rotation prospect to the bullpen unless the Sox are five strong. I wouldn't like it if Sale were the closer in four years while guys similar to Danny Wright were being trotted out every five days.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 12:28 PM
Maybe "wasting" wasn't the right word to use. I have never said that either Kenny or Ozzie are ignorant, and I certainly don't think I know more than either of them. Hell, I probably am in the lower 50% of people on this board for baseball knowledge. I would just hate to lose what seems to be a damn good starting rotation prospect to the bullpen unless the Sox are five strong. I wouldn't like it if Sale were the closer in four years while guys similar to Danny Wright were being trotted out every five days.

Alls well, but how would having Sale in the BP this year, drop his starting prospects next year and down the line.

At this time last year, he was just beginning Spring Semester. He's got some maturation to do.

Didn't Buehrle start in the pen?

Domeshot17
02-18-2011, 12:34 PM
Alls well, but how would having Sale in the BP this year, drop his starting prospects next year and down the line.

At this time last year, he was just beginning Spring Semester. He's got some maturation to do.

Didn't Buehrle start in the pen?

This isn't helping your case at all. 2 entirely different pitchers/mechanics/situations.

Moses_Scurry
02-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Alls well, but how would having Sale in the BP this year, drop his starting prospects next year and down the line.

At this time last year, he was just beginning Spring Semester. He's got some maturation to do.

Didn't Buehrle start in the pen?

If he turns out to be a rookie-of-the-year damn good closer in 2011, I could definitely see them wanting to keep him there. Papelbon was supposed to be the next great Red Sox starter. They put him at closer when their closer-by-committee idea didn't work out. We will probably never know if he would have been any good as a starter. Fortunately for the Red Sox, they can just go out and buy a good fifth starter.

I'm not at all against Sale as the closer this year. I just want him to still get a chance to start, even if he has a great season as a closer.

canOcorn
02-18-2011, 12:40 PM
This isn't helping your case at all. 2 entirely different pitchers/mechanics/situations.

Not to mention that Buehrle also started 30 games in the minors, throwing 220 innings over two years, before that call up.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 12:42 PM
This isn't helping your case at all. 2 entirely different pitchers/mechanics/situations.

Why? It's a maturation issue. How do mechanics work in this? Sale is a young kid from a small school, MB came from a small Junior College.

Just because Sale can hit triple digits, where as MB wasn't close, doesn't mean they both didn't need some MLB experience without getting baptized by fire.

Jim Shorts
02-18-2011, 12:43 PM
Not to mention that Buehrle also started 30 games in the minors, throwing 220 innings over two years, before that call up.

Thanks. That's why I asked the question. Not so much as part of my argument.

Ranger
02-18-2011, 06:16 PM
The only problem I see (if you want to call it a problem) is that if he has a lights out season as a closer this year, I could see Ozzie and Kenny deciding that he should be the closer permanently, thus wasting his talent as a starter. It would be the same as the Red Sox with Papelsuck. Now, I would much rather have a lights out closer than a bust of a starter if that were to occur, but I really want him to have a chance to start. I feel like 2011 should be a year to guage whether or not Santos could be a closer starting in 2012.

Or they could also go the same route that Texas is going to go with Feliz who will get a chance to start this year, it appears. The simplest way to put this is: If Chris Sale is meant to be a starter, he will ultimately be a starter.

This is probably the best option for 2011, but if the plan is for Sale to be a starter in 2012 it does not help AT ALL. Yea, he'll have major league experience but as a reliever. He will still have never started a game professionally and you would be throwing him to the wolves to have him make his first professional starts in the major leagues.

It doesn't hurt AT ALL. He's pitching against big leaguers this season. He won't be "thrown to the wolves" next season any more having gotten that big league experience in a relief role, than he would've been pitching in the minor leagues as a starter without the MLB experience.

C'mon Russ. Price started 27 games in the minors over the course of 2 seasons. Sale hasn't started a single one.

And he doesn't really have to. If the issue you're worried about is innings pitched, that can be taken care of during the offseason and spring training. Otherwise, he's getting MLB experience this year which is highly valuable.

This is just simply not going to hurt his career. You're making WAY too much of it.

Ranger
02-18-2011, 06:18 PM
This isn't helping your case at all. 2 entirely different pitchers/mechanics/situations.

That's the part that should have you reluctant to want him to start.

DumpJerry
02-18-2011, 06:22 PM
Since the Sox will be taking at least a seven run lead into the 9th every game, we won't need a Closer.

TaylorStSox
02-18-2011, 07:58 PM
That's the part that should have you reluctant to want him to start.


Sure, if you believe that relievers don't abuse their arms. Placing a kid who has a high impact delivery, while he's that young, in a prominent relief role is just as risky. If he were starting and throwing 95-97 consistently, as opposed to closing and gassing it up to 101, he might be putting less stress on his arm and body. I think it's unwise to take a kid his stuff and use him to plug a hole in the pen. His upside is far too high IMO.

Also, I can give you about 12 good reasons that Sale and MB are incomparable. They start with miles and end with hour. The only thing they have in common is a glove on their right hand. You could probably start Mark every other day and he'd be fine. Sale, not so much.

Ranger
02-18-2011, 08:23 PM
Sure, if you believe that relievers don't abuse their arms. Placing a kid who has a high impact delivery, while he's that young, in a prominent relief role is just as risky. If he were starting and throwing 95-97 consistently, as opposed to closing and gassing it up to 101, he might be putting less stress on his arm and body. I think it's unwise to take a kid his stuff and use him to plug a hole in the pen. His upside is far too high IMO.

Also, I can give you about 12 good reasons that Sale and MB are incomparable. They start with miles and end with hour. The only thing they have in common is a glove on their right hand. You could probably start Mark every other day and he'd be fine. Sale, not so much.

I never said the two were comparable. I'm completely aware of their differences.

However, I disagree with "just as risky". All pitchers are subject to the risk of injury, simply by being out there. But more innings means more pitches which means greater risk for injury. He's young and his body is resilient now, but there is no telling what would happen to a guy with his particular delivery over the course of a few seasons of 180+ innings each.

By the way, don't assume that Buehrle is without pain just because of the nature of his delivery. No matter how smooth a delivery is, the amount of innings thrown will wear on the body. It will likely do so to an even greater degree if the pitcher has an awkward throwing motion.

Sure, he might get injured anyway. But it wouldn't be because he's in relief.

canOcorn
02-18-2011, 10:46 PM
Or they could also go the same route that Texas is going to go with Feliz who will get a chance to start this year, it appears. The simplest way to put this is: If Chris Sale is meant to be a starter, he will ultimately be a starter.

Feliz threw over 275 innings in the minors. Sale never threw over 105 in a single season in his life.


It doesn't hurt AT ALL. He's pitching against big leaguers this season. He won't be "thrown to the wolves" next season any more having gotten that big league experience in a relief role, than he would've been pitching in the minor leagues as a starter without the MLB experience.That's a load of crap. He isn't throwing six sliders in a row up here to make it a good 3rd pitch.



And he doesn't really have to. If the issue you're worried about is innings pitched, that can be taken care of during the offseason and spring training. Otherwise, he's getting MLB experience this year which is highly valuable.Offseason, spring training? You're better than that! At least I thought so......

This is just simply not going to hurt his career. You're making WAY too much of it.You're making way too little. The Sox are "all in" so I get that they want Sale in the BP, but it's not good for him if his long-term future is as a starter.

Daver
02-18-2011, 11:23 PM
You're making way too little. The Sox are "all in" so I get that they want Sale in the BP, but it's not good for him if his long-term future is as a starter.
Based on what?

soxlady8
02-18-2011, 11:42 PM
Since the Sox will be taking at least a seven run lead into the 9th every game, we won't need a Closer.

LOVE IT Dump !!
Excited to see Thornton or Sale as the closer.
Will miss BOOM by Bobby though for the intro !
life goes on though-

Foulke You
02-19-2011, 12:26 AM
I'm not ready to say that Sale=Thornton.
Fair enough. Sale still doesn't have Thornton's control or experience but if we are talking about skill set only, they are similar. Both are bullpen lefties that rely heavily on a blazing fastball along with a slider. Thornton's experience and tenure with the club will likely mean the closer spot is his to lose. If he falters, Sale will probably get a shot at it.

Ranger
02-19-2011, 03:00 AM
Feliz threw over 275 innings in the minors. Sale never threw over 105 in a single season in his life.


That's a load of crap. He isn't throwing six sliders in a row up here to make it a good 3rd pitch.



Offseason, spring training? You're better than that! At least I thought so......

You're making way too little. The Sox are "all in" so I get that they want Sale in the BP, but it's not good for him if his long-term future is as a starter.

Ugh. It isn't bad for him. It isn't going to hurt him. It isn't going to damage or ruin his career in any way, shape, or form. If the dude is going to be a starter, he'll be ready to be a starter by the time they need him to be one.

(Unless, of course, they don't think he's good enough to make it as a career starter. In that case, he'll stay in the bullpen. Multiple evaluators think he's got #2 starter potential but just about every one of them believe he may not even be able to handle the workload of a starter every year because of his delivery. I'm telling you, that needs to be kept in mind.)

I'm making as much of it as needs to be made.

Tragg
02-19-2011, 09:37 AM
If this is all in preparation for him to be a starter, fine...time in middle relief is a reasonable approach to becoming a ML starter.

If it is in preparation for a life in the bullpen (and Williams HAS thrown a ton of resources into middle relievers, over the years), then it's a poor, poor use of assets.

WhiteSox5187
02-19-2011, 09:52 AM
It doesn't hurt AT ALL. He's pitching against big leaguers this season. He won't be "thrown to the wolves" next season any more having gotten that big league experience in a relief role, than he would've been pitching in the minor leagues as a starter without the MLB experience.


Okay, I know you know this, but I will reiterate it, when you are a reliever and you are throwing one inning, maybe two and most, you can go out there and throw 100% effort, you can rear back and throw fastballs as fast as you can throw them which is what Sale is doing. When you are a starter, you have to pace yourself. You have to adjust to hitters seeing you a second and third time. You can't go out there in the first throwing 100% effort because you have to pace yourself and most guys have to learn how to do that. As a reliever Sale can go out there and just throw what he has, right now he has no idea how to pace himself, how to get by when his primary pitch isn't working. Good God, I don't know what would happen to him if he has to face professional hitters for the second time in the lineup. So yea, he'll be facing major league hitters, but he still will not be starting! He won't know how to pace himself, he won't have to work as much on his secondary pitches.

You are citing Feliz and others are citing Buerhle, those guys had a lot of experience in the minors as a starter. I can not think of a guy who NEVER started a professional game in his career go from the pen to the rotation.

canOcorn
02-19-2011, 12:55 PM
Based on what?

Based upon the fact he's throw way more innings in high school than he's thrown in the last 3 years. I get it...The Sox are better with him THIS year as a back end reliever. His future as a starter, if that's what the Sox see him, is delayed by this move.

Daver
02-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Based upon the fact he's throw way more innings in high school than he's thrown in the last 3 years. I get it...The Sox are better with him THIS year as a back end reliever. His future as a starter, if that's what the Sox see him, is delayed by this move.

We'll agree to disagree.

BigHurt3515
02-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Im sooooo pumped for this season!!!!

Falstaff
02-20-2011, 12:58 AM
Ha Ha sometimes these boards make me want to remind that this is not beer league softball team we are talking about. I am in the camp that agrees Sale will gain ML experience in the BP. By end o' season, he will be more seasoned than starting AAA. By that time team will have better picture of his durability and can make best choice for 2112 onward; ie starting or relief. Coop will have to earn his coaching moolah and rein the kid in so he doesnt try to blow triple figures on every outing and wreck arm; ie the rook may need some mentoring. Reminds me of when Terry Forster was flirting with starting but ended up a masterful lefty reliever for the good guys. "these sox have trod this path before" so never fear.

#1swisher
03-18-2011, 12:56 PM
"Sale still having location problems," said Coop.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110317&content_id=16992616&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws#comment_container

thomas35forever
03-18-2011, 01:10 PM
"Sale still having location problems," said Coop.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110317&content_id=16992616&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws#comment_container
I knew something was up after he blew my last game in The Show.

soxinem1
03-18-2011, 05:21 PM
good call by the sox...this is where he belongs, a kid who has the potential to be a dominent closer and affect more games than if he were to pitch every fifth day.

Lip

+1

captain54
04-15-2011, 11:21 AM
I'll add that I feel that way because I really like how the pen sets up when Thornton is allowed to be in the setup role. As spring goes on, though, it may prove that he would help them better as the closer.

Browsing thru the bullpen threads, I came across this. In Ranger's defense, he wasn't the only one that thought Thornton was the answer as the closer. Funny how things can change.