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doublem23
02-15-2011, 09:24 AM
Sox break camp in 2 days, which I think officially puts us into the "pre-season" part of the calendar. Anyways, a quick rundown of the past few months:

Key Acquisitions: Adam Dunn, Jesse Crain, Will Ohman, Philip Humber, Lastings Milledge

Key Re-Signs: Paul Konerko, Omar Vizquel, A.J. Pierzynski

Key Losses: Freddy Garcia, Bobby Jenks, J.J. Putz, Scott Linebrink, Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay, Erick Threets, Carlos Torres,

soltrain21
02-15-2011, 09:28 AM
I wish I could somehow give it between an A and a B. What they did was pretty spectacular - but I would have really liked to see another halfway decent, back of the rotation starter signed.

With that said, I give them an A. An A for Adam.

spawn
02-15-2011, 09:34 AM
Getting Adam Dunn, re-signing AJ and Paulie, and NOT re-signing Kotsay makes this a helluva winning off-season for me.

Noneck
02-15-2011, 09:34 AM
The bullpen appears weaker than last year and the 4th OFer situation looks like a real downgrade.

Offensively, Dunn should be the difference maker.

I give management a B+ for effort.

asindc
02-15-2011, 09:39 AM
Getting Adam Dunn, re-signing AJ and Paulie, and NOT re-signing Kotsay makes this a helluva winning off-season for me.

Don't forget about subtracting Linebrink and that boat anchor of a contract.

Corlose 15
02-15-2011, 09:40 AM
They get an A from me. This is the most complete offseason this team has had in quite a while. Usually, there is a bunch of fretting over the Sox not getting that seemingly last piece they need to put a complete team together. This season if Peavy is healthy and they can put Sale at the back of the bullpen this team is locked and loaded for what should be a successful season.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 09:41 AM
Don't forget about subtracting Linebrink and that boat anchor of a contract.

Well, we more or less just paid Atlanta to take Linebrink off our hands. His contract for 2011 is $5.5 M. We're paying them $3.5 M this season.

asindc
02-15-2011, 09:42 AM
Sox break camp in 2 days, which I think officially puts us into the "pre-season" part of the calendar. Anyways, a quick rundown of the past few months:

Key Acquisitions: Adam Dunn, Jesse Crain, Will Ohman, Philip Humber, Lastings Milledge

Key Re-Signs: Paul Konerko, Omar Vizquel, A.J. Pierzynski

Key Losses: Freddy Garcia, Bobby Jenks, J.J. Putz, Scott Linebrink, Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay, Erick Threets, Carlos Torres,

... and on that note, I consider Linebrink an addition by subtraction.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 09:43 AM
... and on that note, I consider Linebrink an addition by subtraction.

Agreed, the fact that I never have to see him warming up in a cutaway shot to the bullpen should drastically lower my antacid bills this summer.

spawn
02-15-2011, 09:45 AM
Don't forget about subtracting Linebrink and that boat anchor of a contract.

Oh yeah...how could I forget that?!?!

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-15-2011, 09:53 AM
Wish there was an option in between A/B myself. They had a great offseason, and maybe I'm just expecting too much still, but the bullpen looks a little weak. I love the Dunn signing and Konerko re-signing, and this team is very much improved when compared to last year's team.

Randar68
02-15-2011, 10:00 AM
They re-signed all the key guys from last year and my only real complaint is that they did not do enough to solidify the bullpen. I fear a bullpen catastrophe which can bring down a whole team if they continually fail to protect leads.

Solid B. Within the means they have, they could have been more intelligent in spending the money, but they spent it, showed the fans they would spend it, and kept the core together. Still a slow, lumbering team with bullpen issues, though.

Domeshot17
02-15-2011, 10:10 AM
Solid B, still have questions in the pen and maybe the rotation.

Moses_Scurry
02-15-2011, 10:12 AM
I give them a B (B+ if it were available). With another bullpen arm (or if they had kept Putz), I would give them an A.

Sargeant79
02-15-2011, 11:48 AM
I give them a B (B+ if it were available). With another bullpen arm (or if they had kept Putz), I would give them an A.

I think Sale winds up being that extra bullpen arm at a fraction of Putz's cost. A- for me.

Moses_Scurry
02-15-2011, 12:08 PM
I think Sale winds up being that extra bullpen arm at a fraction of Putz's cost. A- for me.

I would still like to have seen another. I'm not very confident in Santos (prove me wrong Sergio!!) or the other guys before him. Plus, I would have liked to have another solid arm in case they decide to have Sale be the starter. As it stands, Crain, Thornton, and Sale are the only guys I am confident with. If Sale goes to AAA as a starter, that leaves two guys.

I could easily see Santos as a Cliff Politte or Neil Cotts, 2006 candidate.

I just hope that if Sale is in the pen, he is the closer. I want Thornton staying at eighth inning setup.

FielderJones
02-15-2011, 12:32 PM
Still a slow, lumbering team with bullpen issues, though.


Name Softball Player
----- ---------------
Pierre No
Beckham No
Rios No
Dunn Yes
Konerko Yes
Quentin No
Pierzynski Yes
Ramirez No
Morel No
Two-thirds are not.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 12:39 PM
Name Softball Player
----- ---------------
Pierre No
Beckham No
Rios No
Dunn Yes
Konerko Yes
Quentin No
Pierzynski Yes
Ramirez No
Morel No
Two-thirds are not.

Well, I'm pretty sure Quentin does fall into the lines of the softball-type player, he's not swift on the basepaths and he plays a relatively easy defensive position extremely poorly. Aside from mashing the ball, what else does he do that's really good?

Also, then you have Morel and Beckhman, neither of which can really be counted on for their offense right now.

delben91
02-15-2011, 12:42 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure Quentin does fall into the lines of the softball-type player, he's not swift on the basepaths and he plays a relatively easy defensive position extremely poorly. Aside from mashing the ball, what else does he do that's really good?

Also, then you have Morel and Beckhman, neither of which can really be counted on for their offense right now.

Fair, but the argument against them isn't that they're too slow.

FielderJones
02-15-2011, 12:42 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure Quentin does fall into the lines of the softball-type player, he's not swift on the basepaths and he plays a relatively easy defensive position extremely poorly. Aside from mashing the ball, what else does he do that's really good?

Also, then you have Morel and Beckhman, neither of which can really be counted on for their offense right now.

I have a hard time describing Quentin, Beckham, or Morel as slow and lumbering, which is the characterization I had issue with.

DirtySox
02-15-2011, 12:45 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure Quentin does fall into the lines of the softball-type player, he's not swift on the basepaths and he plays a relatively easy defensive position extremely poorly.

Ugh. I think I had blocked from my mind Carlos on the basepaths. Most awkward cringe-inducing slides ever.

Noneck
02-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Name Softball Player
----- ---------------
Pierre No
Beckham No
Rios No
Dunn Yes
Konerko Yes
Quentin No
Pierzynski Yes
Ramirez No
Morel No
Two-thirds are not.

Dunn is no Konerko or Thome. Has more speed on the paths than AJ. A speed merchant hes not but he is not a lumbering lummox either.

khan
02-15-2011, 12:47 PM
I LOVE the additions of Dunn and Crain, and the re-signing of Konerko.

I like the additions of Humber and Millidge, as they are low risk, potentially-decent reward additions and/or depth.

I don't so much care either way about re-signing AJ and Abuelo Omar, as I have a hunch that they will age 10 years by Opening Day, and be underwhelming.

I HATE that there wasn't another SP and another RP added, as I don't trust the 5th SP options, and am unsure of Sale and his ability to stay healthy/effective. I HATE the dollar amount spent on Ohman.


I LOVE the losses of Kotsay and Linebrink.

I HATE the losses of Garcia, Jenks, and Putz. [Especially Putz.]


In sum, I hate the thought that KW might have put together an incomplete team this offseason. I'll give him a B-/C+ overall.

khan
02-15-2011, 12:49 PM
I have a hard time describing Quentin, Beckham, or Morel as slow and lumbering, which is the characterization I had issue with.

Quentin can't really move, can he? He seems like a doppelganger for a 35 year old JD in RF, which is why his defence sucks a horse's ass.

Perhaps he's a smarter baserunner? But I certainly think he's below average [at best] in terms of footspeed.

KMcMahon817
02-15-2011, 12:56 PM
I pretty much echo what others have said. If there was an option for B+, I would probably go with that. I love the Dunn signing. I think Lastings Milledge could be a good addition. Bringing Paulie back was the biggest key to this offseason. Kotsay and Liney are addition by subtraction.

With that said, I am fairly worried about the bullpen. The SOX are best off with Sale as the closer this year, but part of me doesn't want that (Feliz and Papelbon come to mind, as others have said before). I really believe that he could be a DOMINANT starter. I am not a Crain fan, but if he if is 6th or 7th inning man, you could do much worse. I think Sergio will be good, but not great.

I think Peavy is the key the SOX season. If he is healthy and can make 25+ starts at his capability, or just below, I think the SOX run away with the Central. If not, it'll be another race that comes down to the last couple of weeks. GO SOX! Can't wait for Opening Day!!

WhiteSox5187
02-15-2011, 01:21 PM
I'd say a B+, the only thing keeping it from being an A is a bit of uncertainty with the bullpen and the lack of a fifth starter until Peavy returns.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 01:28 PM
Fair, but the argument against them isn't that they're too slow.

Look at how fast they grab some bench!

Dick Allen
02-15-2011, 01:56 PM
I wish they could have solidified 3rd base a bit better, but realize that it's easier said than done. Maybe Morel and/or Teahen will surprise me. Also wish they could have kept Freddie and JJ. Again, easier said than done. Still in all, I give them a B/B+.

russ99
02-15-2011, 02:00 PM
Gotta go with an A. Never thought the Chairman had an offesason like this in him.

Still would like another mid-late bullpen option, though. Bummed that Delcarmen went to Seattle, he would have been perfect.

But don't forget that the Sox could bring another arm in after spring cuts, maybe even Freddy.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 02:00 PM
I wish they could have solidified 3rd base a bit better, but realize that it's easier said than done. Maybe Morel and/or Teahen will surprise me. Also wish they could have kept Freddie and JJ. Again, easier said than done. Still in all, I give them a B/B+.

The Freddy thing still puzzles me. How did the Yankees nab him with just a minor league deal? I know they have more trouble with their pitching staff than we do, but is that worth risking spending your summer in Northeast Pennsylvania? Plus, it's not like the Sox have a lot of SP after the Major League level, he'd walk in as the #5/6 guy in the depth chart depending on Peavy's health and then if one guy goes down (not unheard of), he's got a job for the year.

russ99
02-15-2011, 02:19 PM
The Freddy thing still puzzles me. How did the Yankees nab him with just a minor league deal? I know they have more trouble with their pitching staff than we do, but is that worth risking spending your summer in Northeast Pennsylvania? Plus, it's not like the Sox have a lot of SP after the Major League level, he'd walk in as the #5/6 guy in the depth chart depending on Peavy's health and then if one guy goes down (not unheard of), he's got a job for the year.

That's an easy answer: Cash.

The Sox wanted a $1-1.5M deal with Freddy as they did the last year or two.

Freddy wanted a bigger contract. The Yankees may have signed him to a minor league deal, but here's the info, as per Cot's:



1 year/$1.5M (2011)

signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 2/2/11 (minor-league contract)
$3.6M in performance bonuses based on starts (to 30 GS)
may request release if not on active roster March 29, 2011




Kenny was not going to sign Freddy for an incentive-based $5.1M. If he ends up requesting his release, I'd be willing to bet he's back with the Sox.

NLaloosh
02-15-2011, 02:22 PM
I give them a C+.

Retaining and/ or extending Konerko, Ramirez and A.J. was excellent. Adding Dunn was good - although I think it was an overpayment.

However, the team needed pitching more than anything and it has less now than it ended last season with. Once agaoin, this will be the reason that they finish second behind Minnesota.

They spent a lot of money - that was great. But, not in the most critical area - that was not so good.

pearso66
02-15-2011, 02:44 PM
I give them a C+.

Retaining and/ or extending Konerko, Ramirez and A.J. was excellent. Adding Dunn was good - although I think it was an overpayment.

However, the team needed pitching more than anything and it has less now than it ended last season with. Once agaoin, this will be the reason that they finish second behind Minnesota.

They spent a lot of money - that was great. But, not in the most critical area - that was not so good.

The problem is a lot of their money is already spent on pitching. Between Buehrle, Peavy, Jackson and Crain that is a lot of money. Plus they want to re-sign Danks at sometime. With Crain/Thornton/Sale that's a pretty good back-end of the bullpen, and their rotation is solid minus the 5th starter. Once Peavy comes back they will be solid 1-5. I don't know where else you wanted to spend money on pitching? Bullpen a lot of the time is a crapshoot anyway, you can sign a guy who was lights out one year and then blows the next. There is no guarantee that Garcia is better than any of the 5th starters that will be trotted out this year.

I think Kenny did fix the biggest problem, that was to get a DH that can hit, and he got the best one available. You could actually say that they got lucky that Washington backed out of their deal last year, because then they would be minus 1 more starting pitcher.

Edit: Oh and by the way I give them an A. I don't think they should have signed Ohman, but he's probably the 5th option out of the pen. This team could be a lot worse off than they are.

mzh
02-15-2011, 02:46 PM
I give them a C+.

Retaining and/ or extending Konerko, Ramirez and A.J. was excellent. Adding Dunn was good - although I think it was an overpayment.

However, the team needed pitching more than anything and it has less now than it ended last season with. Once agaoin, this will be the reason that they finish second behind Minnesota.

They spent a lot of money - that was great. But, not in the most critical area - that was not so good.
So you would rather have Freddy Garcia and overpaying for bullpen help and also have Mark Kotsay as our DH? I wonder how that would work out over 162 games.

Zisk77
02-15-2011, 03:13 PM
I wish I could somehow give it between an A and a B. What they did was pretty spectacular - but I would have really liked to see another halfway decent, back of the rotation starter signed.

With that said, I give them an A. An A for Adam.

I pretty much agree with this...as well as somehow getting rid of Linebrink - genius move. Only the Jays getting rid of Wells' contract usurps this act of brilliance.

voodoochile
02-15-2011, 03:24 PM
I wish I could somehow give it between an A and a B. What they did was pretty spectacular - but I would have really liked to see another halfway decent, back of the rotation starter signed.

With that said, I give them an A. An A for Adam.

I agree. I'm an A-/B+ vote so I gave em a B on the poll. I'd like to see one more arm for the back end of the bullpen. Not so worried about the starter situation at them moment though.

DumpJerry
02-15-2011, 03:49 PM
I was feeling pretty good about our rotation with or without Peavy. Then I started to think about the Phillies' rotation and had that sinking feeling.

I reminded myself that the 2011 Phillies' rotation could be one of those epic staffs we have not seen since the 1970's Orioles. They were more fearsome than the 1990's Braves rotations.

I feel pretty good about this offseason for us mainly because the other teams in the AL Central did not do anything to become a powerhouse. When looking at the AL in general, I think the main headache team for us will be the Red Sox because of their high octane offense. The A's could cause us some problems because they always seem to do so in Oakland.

I have a good feeling we will be very happy with Beckham and Morel. Too many on here have been quick to jump on Morel, we have not really seen much of him yet.

NLaloosh
02-15-2011, 04:40 PM
So you would rather have Freddy Garcia and overpaying for bullpen help and also have Mark Kotsay as our DH? I wonder how that would work out over 162 games.

Yes. It's sad. The whole White Sox season hinges on Jake Peavy pitching for most of the season and at a very high level. That's a very bad bet.

Also, while the Sox have the highest paid DH in baseball but they don't have the best. Adam Dunn has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?

The fact is that he's not much of a difference maker. Will he help? Yes. But, the Sox did not finish in second last year because of a weak DH.

Their pitching was simply not real good. Right now, they have less pitching than last year. This team will miss Garcia, Putz and Jenks.

If Kenny doesn't add some pitching this team will not make the playoffs.

I have nothing against Dunn but he won't be worth $ 56 mil over the next 4 years. If they could have gotten him for $9-10 mil. per and added a solid 5th starter that could slide to the bullpen then I would have been happy.

A DH is so easy to find, why lock up that much money for this guy? Pitching is what wins - not DH's.

Ranger
02-15-2011, 04:46 PM
I wish I could somehow give it between an A and a B. What they did was pretty spectacular - but I would have really liked to see another halfway decent, back of the rotation starter signed.

With that said, I give them an A. An A for Adam.
Wish there was an option in between A/B myself. They had a great offseason, and maybe I'm just expecting too much still, but the bullpen looks a little weak. I love the Dunn signing and Konerko re-signing, and this team is very much improved when compared to last year's team.

If an offseason was, in your opinion, "great" or "spectacular", wouldn't it be automatic that the grade is an A? I would think there would be no middle ground between A and B, in that case.

At any rate, I think you have to give them an A when you take into account how much positive work was done and how difficult it is to actually do that much during a single offseason.

Obviously, I'd like to have one more arm for some Peavy insurance, but it's just not that simple to acquire it. The Yankees are a perfect example of that. There is a difference between what is desired and what is realistic. And within the confines of reality, the Sox did REALLY well during the offseason.

SephClone89
02-15-2011, 04:49 PM
Yes. It's sad. The whole White Sox season hinges on Jake Peavy pitching for most of the season and at a very high level. That's a very bad bet.

Also, while the Sox have the highest paid DH in baseball but they don't have the best. Adam Dunn has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?

The fact is that he's not much of a difference maker. Will he help? Yes. But, the Sox did not finish in second last year because of a weak DH.

Their pitching was simply not real good. Right now, they have less pitching than last year. This team will miss Garcia, Putz and Jenks.

If Kenny doesn't add some pitching this team will not make the playoffs.

I have nothing against Dunn but he won't be worth $ 56 mil over the next 4 years. If they could have gotten him for $9-10 mil. per and added a solid 5th starter that could slide to the bullpen then I would have been happy.

A DH is so easy to find, why lock up that much money for this guy? Pitching is what wins - not DH's.

:facepalm:

Ranger
02-15-2011, 04:51 PM
Yes. It's sad. The whole White Sox season hinges on Jake Peavy pitching for most of the season and at a very high level. That's a very bad bet.

Also, while the Sox have the highest paid DH in baseball but they don't have the best. Adam Dunn has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?

The fact is that he's not much of a difference maker. Will he help? Yes. But, the Sox did not finish in second last year because of a weak DH.

Their pitching was simply not real good. Right now, they have less pitching than last year. This team will miss Garcia, Putz and Jenks.

If Kenny doesn't add some pitching this team will not make the playoffs.

I have nothing against Dunn but he won't be worth $ 56 mil over the next 4 years. If they could have gotten him for $9-10 mil. per and added a solid 5th starter that could slide to the bullpen then I would have been happy.

A DH is so easy to find, why lock up that much money for this guy? Pitching is what wins - not DH's.

Wow, that's a hyper-pessimistic view if I've ever seen one. I don't think the entire season rests solely on the lat muscle of Jake Peavy. Without him, it will not be as easy, but they will still have 4 solid starters, which is more than just about any team can say...except for a select few. They've also improved the offense which was, over the 6-month season, mediocre last year.

The roster, in it's current state, is good enough to win the Central.

Zisk77
02-15-2011, 04:56 PM
Yes. It's sad. The whole White Sox season hinges on Jake Peavy pitching for most of the season and at a very high level. That's a very bad bet.

Also, while the Sox have the highest paid DH in baseball but they don't have the best. Adam Dunn has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?

The fact is that he's not much of a difference maker. Will he help? Yes. But, the Sox did not finish in second last year because of a weak DH.

Their pitching was simply not real good. Right now, they have less pitching than last year. This team will miss Garcia, Putz and Jenks.

If Kenny doesn't add some pitching this team will not make the playoffs.

I have nothing against Dunn but he won't be worth $ 56 mil over the next 4 years. If they could have gotten him for $9-10 mil. per and added a solid 5th starter that could slide to the bullpen then I would have been happy.

A DH is so easy to find, why lock up that much money for this guy? Pitching is what wins - not DH's.


Do you think, that just maybe, the reason Adam Dunn has never been a difference maker is that the teams he has been on sucked?! He currently is on the best team he has ever been on. Lets just see how much of a difference he makes.

I'd gamble Phill Humber/et.al will be fine for the two or so starts the will be in until Peavey is back.

asindc
02-15-2011, 05:01 PM
Also, while the Sox have the highest paid DH in baseball but they don't have the best. Adam Dunn has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?

The fact is that he's not much of a difference maker. Will he help? Yes. But, the Sox did not finish in second last year because of a weak DH.,.

A DH is so easy to find, why lock up that much money for this guy? Pitching is what wins - not DH's.

Before the NYY acquired their current 3rd baseman, the bolded sentence could have read as such: Alex Rodriguez has never made a difference anywhere he's been. Why would that change now?*



*This is where I state for those who are missing the point that I am not saying Dunn is as good as Rodriguez or will make the same level of impact. So let's not waste bandwidth pretending that is the point I'm making here.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-15-2011, 06:32 PM
Do you think, that just maybe, the reason Adam Dunn has never been a difference maker is that the teams he has been on sucked?! He currently is on the best team he has ever been on. Lets just see how much of a difference he makes.

Thank you, Zisk.

Adam Dunn has played for the Reds, a half-season with the D-Backs, and the Nats. The Reds were a complete joke in the 2000s, the D-Backs missed the playoffs when he played for them, and the Nats were, well, the Nats.

He hasn't exactly been set up for success throughout most of his MLB career. He rarely had any protection in the lineup, and his pitching staffs had usually been lower-tier.

This year, he will have a lot of protection, and he'll have one of the better pitching staffs in the AL (if Peavy comes back healthy and does well, maybe the best in the AL). Let's give him a few weeks before we claim that he's a loser who will never win anything.

pearso66
02-15-2011, 07:09 PM
I'm glad to see there are so many people who agree with me. This season doesn't hinge on Peavy. Having him healthy helps, but right now they have a solid 1-4, and as I said before there isn't a guarantee that Garcia will be any better than the guys they have already, so with all the money they spent, it makes sense that Jerry didn't want to spend 1.5+ for Garcia to then either cut him or throw him in the bullpen once Peavy gets back. As is they should win the Central even without Peavy, doesn't mean they will, but to me I think they will.

It has also been said that the reason Dunn hasn't gotten a team to the playoffs is because he hasn't been on good teams. 1 player can not carry a bad team to the playoffs, just ask A-Rod.

Frater Perdurabo
02-15-2011, 07:53 PM
I think that Peavy is the "key" to the season.

I think that the Sox will have a winning season even if Peavy misses the whole year. But I think it might be in the 82-86 win range, which is not enough to win this division.

If Peavy makes 25+ starts, it puts Sale in the pen, which makes the pen strong in two ways. First, Sale himself adds to the depth of the pen because he closes, Thornton pitches the eighth (where he excels), Crain pitches the seventh (where he excels), and Ohman, Santos and Pena throw middle/long relief. But with Peavy in the rotation, the Sox have five starters who generally go 6+ innings, and often 7. This will mean the bullpen throws fewer innings. Ohman, Santos and Pena especially will be better if they are used less. Conversely, too much exposure will result in them getting lit up more.

Here's one more aspect to consider. The Sox had a better record against all other opponents than the Twins did, but the Twins defenestrated the Sox in head-to-head games, accounting for the difference in standings. Many of the Sox losses to the Twins came AFTER Peavy got hurt. Peavy is a fierce competitor and I think his fire can help get the Sox motivated to compete better against the Twins. So if he's pitching for much of the season, he's competitiveness should rub off on his teammates, meaning the Sox should fare better against the Twins this year.

If Peavy throws 25+ starts, I think the Sox win ~95 games.

Lip Man 1
02-15-2011, 09:07 PM
Frater:

I think Peavy helps against the Twins but remember the Sox lost five games to Minnesota where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later this past season.

Five games.

That indicates something more going on to me. Maybe it's the bullpen, maybe it's a mental thing with them. We'll see.. but you are right in the sense that the key is beating Minnesota.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
02-15-2011, 09:27 PM
Frater:

I think Peavy helps against the Twins but remember the Sox lost five games to Minnesota where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later this past season.

Five games.

That indicates something more going on to me. Maybe it's the bullpen, maybe it's a mental thing with them. We'll see.. but you are right in the sense that the key is beating Minnesota.

Lip

I think Peavy helps against the Twins because he'll start a few of those games, but also because his toughness will inspire his teammates to likewise put aside their mental block of playing the Twins.

One other thing that I failed to say: Dunn is a HUGE upgrade over Kotsay. This also means that Ozzie can - if he chooses - go with a set lineup 1-6: Pierre, Bacon, Rios, Dunn, PK, Quentin, AJ/Castro, Alexei, Morel. Yet there's still some flexibility: Dunn can play a little first base, allowing Paulie to DH 3-4 times per month; Vizquel can hit second, eighth or ninth, depending on whether he's giving a rest to Bacon, Alexei or Morel. Teahen can hit 6th and play a little RF to give Quentin a night off against RHP, or hit ninth when he's playing 3B (which hopefully is not often). The only time the lineup really needs to be shuffled is when Rios or Pierre need a night off. Lineup consistency will lead to hitting consistency as well.

DumpJerry
02-16-2011, 07:14 AM
Frater:

I think Peavy helps against the Twins but remember the Sox lost five games to Minnesota where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later this past season.

Five games.

That indicates something more going on to me. Maybe it's the bullpen, maybe it's a mental thing with them. We'll see.. but you are right in the sense that the key is beating Minnesota.

Lip
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_86-X5Fn-0UA/TQp3iZt5wEI/AAAAAAAAFz4/42r_n1aQ1CE/s1600/jenks-pink-goatee.jpg
What are you sayin' there, Mr. Lip?

Thome25
02-16-2011, 08:18 AM
I gave KW and the Sox a solid "A". What more could we ask for?

We re-signed all the players we wanted to keep. (AJ, PK, Omar)

We signed the best left handed DH on the market to more than a fair deal.

We helped the bullpen with addition by subtraction. (Linebrink and Jenks are out.)

We also added key bullpen pieces as well in Crain and Ohman.

The only thing I'm a little nervous about with this team is I'd like to see another veteran bullpen arm and I hated to see Putz go.

But, I'm extremely happy with this offseason and as Reinsdorf has been saying: Let's get our fannies in those seats and support this "all in" offseason.

khan
02-16-2011, 10:12 AM
I gave KW and the Sox a solid "A". What more could we ask for?
Good question. We could ask for KW to improve the pitching staff, as that component of the 2010 team crapped their pants. We could ask for KW to have a proven closer to replace the one that was just lost. The 2nd place team from 2010 appears to have had had a BETTER pitching staff than the 2011 edition. [Oh, and I no longer buy the BS they sold us that this is among the best staffs in the league any more.]

I don't think it is entirely true to state that KW couldn't have done more.

We helped the bullpen with addition by subtraction. (Linebrink and Jenks are out.)

We also added key bullpen pieces as well in Crain and Ohman.

The only thing I'm a little nervous about with this team is I'd like to see another veteran bullpen arm and I hated to see Putz go.
See, I think you contradicted yourself to a degree. Yes, I like the loss of Linebrink. But I'm not 100% sold that Sale's 26 or so IP in 2010 are an entirely-accurate projection of what he can/will be in 2011. I'm not convinced that Sale's mechanics won't lead to him missing more games than Jenks did in 2010.

And I'm not sold on Santos, either.

But, I'm extremely happy with this offseason and as Reinsdorf has been saying: Let's get our fannies in those seats and support this "all in" offseason.
I think this is a fair statement on your part. KW did a good but not great job, as you yourself have said. [With respect to the bullpen.] But it is fools' gold to suggest that KW did EVERYTHING one could want and hope for this offseason, IMO.


That said, I'm cautiously optimistic about this season.

Corlose 15
02-16-2011, 10:26 AM
I think another thing to consider is that this team should score more runs than than last year and as such shouldn't be playing in close games as often as they did last year. That should help to decrease the workload on the pen as well.

doublem23
02-16-2011, 10:40 AM
I think another thing to consider is that this team should score more runs than than last year and as such shouldn't be playing in close games as often as they did last year. That should help to decrease the workload on the pen as well.

I kind of know what you're getting at, but it should be noted that, if for nothing else than to play Devil's Advocate, the Sox bullpen pitched the 4th fewest innings in the AL and were well under the league average in Bullpen IP. And likely, if Peavy doesn't get hurt mid-game when he does and Pena doesn't need to mop up from the 2nd inning on, they very well could have been 3rd or even 2nd least. Only Seattle's bullpen pitched a significant amount of less innings.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/128/league/al/sort/thirdInnings/order/true

Obviously I get the point about being in close games and those being more stressful, but from a strictly workload standpoint, the Sox were pretty easy on their 'pen last year. A couple of the guys that wore down (Jenks, Putz) were injury question marks going into the season, so it's no surprise to see they spent time on the DL. Santos was still in his 1st full season as a pitcher, let alone a Major League Baseball player, so it wasn't shocking to see that he ran out of gas as the season wore on. The only surprise was Thornton, whose had a pretty clean bill of health since coming to Chicago, but especially with pitchers, you never know.

voodoochile
02-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Just like to add that I think the Sox are gonna split closer duties between Sale and Santos depending on matchups.

pssondacubs
02-16-2011, 12:51 PM
My biggest fear at the end of the season was that they would keep Ozzie. They did. His son has already been in the papers causing problems again, and I don't think this ever ends. The continuous distractions are a continuous problem.

This team needed to go in a different direction, without changing management, I don't think enough will change to put them over the top.

ghostface36
02-16-2011, 01:52 PM
id go with A
we signed dunn and re-signed paulie the two most important moves for the team
the extension of tcm was nice too, also i think gordon will play much better this year, all we need now is a 5th starter until jake is due back

ghostface36
02-16-2011, 02:15 PM
The continuous distractions are a continuous problem.

i don't understand this theory fully do people truly believe an article or story would effect their performance in any way, now if ozzie was calling out players in the media that might mess with them but the stuff with ozzie's family? i dont see it

SOXSINCE'70
02-16-2011, 05:01 PM
I gave them an "A -". I'm glad to have Konerko and A.J. back, and Adam Dunn will be a welcome addition to the offense.
The signings of Ohman and Crain should bolster the 'pen as well.A starting 4 of Beuhrle, Jackson, Danks and Floyd
could combine to throw over 800 innings.Add a healthy Jake Peavy to the mix (even semi-healthy), and September should be
a month for meaningful baseball on the South side.

DSpivack
02-16-2011, 05:16 PM
The Freddy thing still puzzles me. How did the Yankees nab him with just a minor league deal? I know they have more trouble with their pitching staff than we do, but is that worth risking spending your summer in Northeast Pennsylvania? Plus, it's not like the Sox have a lot of SP after the Major League level, he'd walk in as the #5/6 guy in the depth chart depending on Peavy's health and then if one guy goes down (not unheard of), he's got a job for the year.

That's an easy answer: Cash.

The Sox wanted a $1-1.5M deal with Freddy as they did the last year or two.

Freddy wanted a bigger contract. The Yankees may have signed him to a minor league deal, but here's the info, as per Cot's:



1 year/$1.5M (2011)

signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 2/2/11 (minor-league contract)
$3.6M in performance bonuses based on starts (to 30 GS)
may request release if not on active roster March 29, 2011




Kenny was not going to sign Freddy for an incentive-based $5.1M. If he ends up requesting his release, I'd be willing to bet he's back with the Sox.

You missed the clause in his contract where the Yankees would pay to set up a full working version of Schrute Farms.

SOXSINCE'70
02-16-2011, 05:17 PM
I give them an A. An A for Adam.

Or an "A" for A.J.:D:

konerko 14
02-16-2011, 05:23 PM
A++

Signing Dunn, resigning PK and AJ, and getting rid of Linebrink!

hi im skot
02-16-2011, 05:44 PM
You missed the clause in his contract where the Yankees would pay to set up a full working version of Schrute Farms.

:thumbsup:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-16-2011, 05:53 PM
I gave them an "A -". I'm glad to have Konerko and A.J. back, and Adam Dunn will be a welcome addition to the offense.
The signings of Ohman and Crain should bolster the 'pen as well.A starting 4 of Beuhrle, Jackson, Danks and Floyd
could combine to throw over 800 innings.Add a healthy Jake Peavy to the mix (even semi-healthy), and September should be
a month for meaningful baseball on the South side.

Maybe October, too, if all goes to plan.

Milw
02-16-2011, 11:21 PM
My biggest fear at the end of the season was that they would keep Ozzie. They did. His son has already been in the papers causing problems again, and I don't think this ever ends. The continuous distractions are a continuous problem.

This team needed to go in a different direction, without changing management, I don't think enough will change to put them over the top.
I agree with this. It's hard to imagine Ozzie Guillen ever winning a World Series as manager.