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View Full Version : Pujols rejects Cards offer


illini81887
02-13-2011, 06:31 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/02/source-albert-pujols-rejects-cardinals-offer-will-end-talks-tuesday/1

mzh
02-13-2011, 06:36 PM
They really handicapped themselves with the Holliday deal.

I hope this sort of thing doesn't turn MLB into an operation like the NBA, when the demands of a single player (or 3 :P) turn the entire league upside down and leave multiple teams in holes that take years to dig out of.

With no salary cap this will most likely not happen, but seeing him scamper to the Yankees or Sawx like every other money grubber superstar would make me puke. In the era marred by steroids and big-market domination, I always thought of Albert as one of the better guys in the league by that measure.

DumpJerry
02-13-2011, 06:36 PM
I dream of the day I could turn down $10,000,000 to work for about 8 months a year playing a kid's game.

Life sucks.

soxlady8
02-13-2011, 06:57 PM
Well said Dump Jerry

Mr.Soxlady8 who is a diehard Cardinal fan thinks Pujols needs to
re-evaluate what he is asking for. He would be so upset if Pujols was wearing Navy Blue pinstripes in the future !!

cws05champ
02-13-2011, 07:03 PM
How much is enough? I know he took a bit less on his last contract with the Cards, but if they give in and give him $30M+/per for 10 yrs, they will not be able to compete because they won't be able to add any other good players. Albert has to realize this right?

I think the magic # should be 7-8yrs @ $25-27 per.

LongLiveFisk
02-13-2011, 07:05 PM
I dream of the day I could turn down $10,000,000 to work for about 8 months a year playing a kid's game.

Life sucks.


Me too. (sigh)

Maybe in my next life. :(:

TheOldRoman
02-13-2011, 07:21 PM
They really handicapped themselves with the Holliday deal.

I hope this sort of thing doesn't turn MLB into an operation like the NBA, when the demands of a single player (or 3 :P) turn the entire league upside down and leave multiple teams in holes that take years to dig out of.

With no salary cap this will most likely not happen, but seeing him scamper to the Yankees or Sawx like every other money grubber superstar would make me puke. In the era marred by steroids and big-market domination, I always thought of Albert as one of the better guys in the league by that measure.They had to sign Holliday, though. Albert was openly pissed off that the Cards had regressed and spent less money since moving into the new park. He said for him to re-sign the Cards would have to make an effort to put a great team around him.

It is a tough spot for the Cardinals. Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time, and the Cards should never lose him being in the market they are. Signing him to a 10/$300 mil contract would be horrible, as the Cards would be burning the salary for the last two years of the contract in the absolute best case scenario. The Cards are a storied team with a massive, loyal fanbase which wouldn't stop going to games if Pujols left. I hope they work something out, because I would REALLY hate seeing him play LF for the Yankees or DHing for the Red Sox next year.

Viva Medias B's
02-13-2011, 08:11 PM
If the Cardinals want to offer me $10M, I'll take it.

illinibk
02-13-2011, 08:19 PM
I dream of the day I could turn down $10,000,000 to work for about 8 months a year playing a kid's game.

Life sucks.

If the Cardinals want to offer me $10M, I'll take it.

Well what if you were worth $25-$30mm? Would you still willingly take $10mm?

DumpJerry
02-13-2011, 08:24 PM
Well what if you were worth $25-$30mm? Would you still willingly take $10mm?
Players are worth whatever it is they are offered. They are not a brick of gold or some other tangible piece of property which can be appraised with a value attached.

Prince Albert should take the Card's top offer. If he gets a serious injury this year with no contract in place after the World Series, he's royally ****ed.

Whappeh
02-13-2011, 09:44 PM
Paving the way for a Pujols decade long stay on the Southside!

DumpJerry
02-13-2011, 09:46 PM
Paving the way for a Pujols decade long stay on the Southside!
What did you say?
:tealtutor:

Whappeh
02-13-2011, 09:47 PM
I'm colour blind and tried :( :whiner:

Boondock Saint
02-13-2011, 09:58 PM
I'm colour blind and tried :( :whiner:

2nd row, 5th column. Learn it, live it, love it.

soltrain21
02-13-2011, 10:04 PM
Paving the way for a Pujols decade long stay on the Southside!

http://dump.fm/images/20100601/1275432708585-dumpfm-noisia-teal-with-it.gif

Nelfox02
02-13-2011, 10:18 PM
lot of talk about the Sawk and Yankee options, but both of them seem to be set at the 1B position for awhile......yeah I guess Pujols could platoon at DH.....and both of those teams have the revenue base to make pretty much anything happen......but could the Cubs be a serious player for Albert if he does make the market?

I think they will be----Pena is on a 1 year deal.....they will have a glaring need for a power hitting 1B in 2012.....and I say despite the Ricketts posturing they DO have the funding....I have not looked at their payroll in detail recently but dont they have some deals expiring after this season?

seeing him go to the Yanks or Sawk....yeah that would suck....seing him with the Flubs? disgusting

Brian26
02-13-2011, 10:43 PM
How much is enough?

He's easily been one of the top two players in the game over the past decade, if not the best, but he hasn't been paid even remotely close to his worth.

I've always thought it would be good for baseball if Pujols stays in STL and generally dislike free agency, but this is probably the one time that I will side with a player.

SOXPHILE
02-13-2011, 11:08 PM
We can now officially commence the Chicago media and Cubs Game Fans speculating, campaigning and all but confirming he will be signing with the Cubs next year. (It's always been his dream to play for them, he grew up watching and rooting for the Cubs, Wrigley Field is his favorite MLB park to visit, etc., and whatever other bull**** they can make up).

ComiskeyBrewer
02-14-2011, 02:23 AM
The Holliday deal looks even worse for them when you realize Wainwright is also a free agent after this year(i think). No way they keep all 3.

TommyJohn
02-14-2011, 06:57 AM
We can now officially commence the Chicago media and Cubs Game Fans speculating, campaigning and all but confirming he will be signing with the Cubs next year. (It's always been his dream to play for them, he grew up watching and rooting for the Cubs, Wrigley Field is his favorite MLB park to visit, etc., and whatever other bull**** they can make up).


Now? It's been going on. And I wager that the Sun-Times will publish a back page picture of Pujols in a Cubs uniform, along with a large headline about him possibly being signed by them.

Viva Medias B's
02-14-2011, 09:13 AM
Is Albert Pujols worth $10M a year, especially when he would be 41-years-old at the end of his desired contract?

SephClone89
02-14-2011, 09:35 AM
Is Albert Pujols worth $10M a year, especially when he would be 41-years-old at the end of his desired contract?

Hilarious typo.

cws05champ
02-14-2011, 09:45 AM
He's easily been one of the top two players in the game over the past decade, if not the best, but he hasn't been paid even remotely close to his worth.

I've always thought it would be good for baseball if Pujols stays in STL and generally dislike free agency, but this is probably the one time that I will side with a player.

I agree he is the best player, but the A-rod contract (both times) was an egregious overpay and really made him a mark for the general public to hate. I know Pujols is much more likable than A-Rod but if he turns down a $27M a year contract holding out for $30M plus....not only will it make him look really greedy, but he can't complain if the Cards can't pay Wainwright, Garcia, Rasmus and others down the road.

EDIT: Furthermore, his self imposed deadline of ST open is BS. He says he doesn't want to talk after ST starts, but that's what you have an agent for. He says he doesn't want to disrespect his teammates by making this an ongoing distraction....but whether they continue talking about a contract or not between now and the season starts it will be a season long topic and distraction.

Taliesinrk
02-14-2011, 10:25 AM
He's easily been one of the top two players in the game over the past decade, if not the best, but he hasn't been paid even remotely close to his worth.

I've always thought it would be good for baseball if Pujols stays in STL and generally dislike free agency, but this is probably the one time that I will side with a player.

I hear what you're saying, and without specifics about what the Cards are actually offering, it's hard to comment one way or the other, BUT assuming the Cards are coming in at at least $25 mil/year for 8+ years, I'm not nearly as eager to jump into Pujols' corner... and I really like him.

1st - while I think it counts for something that he's been generally underpaid, I think that counts for little in this discussion. Did he "take a discount" (like Paulie in '05/'06?)? If so, for how much? Otherwise, he agreed to the contract and performed well for the $, but it was a contract he agreed to and therefore it was his responsibility to do so. I don't think he can now say, here's the $ I want and some of it should be paid to me because I outplayed my previous contract... in essence holding the Cards responsible because he over-performed for the $ he was getting. The way he's rewarded by his previous performance is that he's now able to get a long-term deal at good money because he will perform... but I don't think he's owed extra because of prior. (Maybe what you said isn't counter to this, but I wasn't sure based upon how I read your comment).

Secondly, I think it's a question of whether or not Pujols wants to win. If that is NOT his priority (and that's his prerogative), then I'm more ok with him going to free agency... but he better not say it's not about the money. It'd be great if all franchises were the Yankees, and although the Cards have a great following, that contract could seriously handcuff the franchise in future signings. It's very easy (and probably not fair) for me to say, but I would think that if he really wants to stay in St. Louis, Pujols should be considering a bit less to give the Cards a shot at fielding a solid team around him. This isn't basketball where a superstar can carry an entire team for an entire season (see: Lebron and the Cavs).

Finally (and again, maybe easy for me to say), I really think Pujols would be playing with fire if he plays this season without a contract. When you look a the risk/reward here, I HAVE to think that his side is just posturing currently. Again, I don't know what the Cards are offering, but as long as it's north of $20 mil/year for about a decade, I think he's crazy to risk injury over a 162 game season. Further, if he does play w/o a deal, I'd think that would be in the back of his mind, leading him to maybe not make the extra effort and risk injury, etc.... potentially leading to diminished performance over the course of a 162-game season. I just think that while he may easily be able to get more on the free market, the potential risk of an injury and him subsequently losing well over $200 million that I'm assuming the Cards are offering is short-sided on his part. Hopefully this gets worked out and this is all a moot point anyhow.

doublem23
02-14-2011, 10:47 AM
Finally (and again, maybe easy for me to say), I really think Pujols would be playing with fire if he plays this season without a contract. When you look a the risk/reward here, I HAVE to think that his side is just posturing currently. Again, I don't know what the Cards are offering, but as long as it's north of $20 mil/year for about a decade, I think he's crazy to risk injury over a 162 game season. Further, if he does play w/o a deal, I'd think that would be in the back of his mind, leading him to maybe not make the extra effort and risk injury, etc.... potentially leading to diminished performance over the course of a 162-game season. I just think that while he may easily be able to get more on the free market, the potential risk of an injury and him subsequently losing well over $200 million that I'm assuming the Cards are offering is short-sided on his part. Hopefully this gets worked out and this is all a moot point anyhow.

I really don't think that's as much of a concern. At this point, everyone knows what kind of player Albert is, as long as he doesn't suffer an injury that leaves him paralyzed, he's gonna get paid by somebody. All it takes is one crazy GM with a company checkbook to make that happen. If Magglio Ordonez can land a $75 M/5 year deal in 2005 after suffering an injury so devastating, he had to have treatment in Europe because it's banned in the USA, somebody will pay Albert Pujols what he wants, even if his 2011 is down for his standards or he gets hurt.

DumpJerry
02-14-2011, 11:03 AM
I really don't think that's as much of a concern. At this point, everyone knows what kind of player Albert is, as long as he doesn't suffer an injury that leaves him paralyzed, he's gonna get paid by somebody. All it takes is one crazy GM with a company checkbook to make that happen. If Magglio Ordonez can land a $75 M/5 year deal in 2005 after suffering an injury so devastating, he had to have treatment in Europe because it's banned in the USA, somebody will pay Albert Pujols what he wants, even if his 2011 is down for his standards or he gets hurt.
Don't forget that Maggs got that contract when the other 29 MLB teams refused to consider signing him because his medicals would not be released. The power of Borass.

His contract said that if he missed a specific number of games in the first year due to the knee injury, the Tigers could void the contract. If he did not miss the specified number of games, the contract became guaranteed. In mid-April of the first year, Maggs suddenly developed a hernia which kept him out so long, it was impossible for him to miss the specified number of games because of his knee. The power of Borass.

TheOldRoman
02-14-2011, 11:08 AM
Finally (and again, maybe easy for me to say), I really think Pujols would be playing with fire if he plays this season without a contract. When you look a the risk/reward here, I HAVE to think that his side is just posturing currently. Again, I don't know what the Cards are offering, but as long as it's north of $20 mil/year for about a decade, I think he's crazy to risk injury over a 162 game season. Further, if he does play w/o a deal, I'd think that would be in the back of his mind, leading him to maybe not make the extra effort and risk injury, etc.... potentially leading to diminished performance over the course of a 162-game season. I just think that while he may easily be able to get more on the free market, the potential risk of an injury and him subsequently losing well over $200 million that I'm assuming the Cards are offering is short-sided on his part. Hopefully this gets worked out and this is all a moot point anyhow.I don't think it will be much of an issue with Albert. We have seen the same thing with John Danks. The Sox have tried the last three offseasons to extend him (the first time they offered a real low-ball offer which Floyd ended up jumping at). Danks has the type of talent that someone will make a franchise-crippling offer for, so he knows it is in his best interests to wait until free agency. He comes from a well-to-do family, so he would have been fine if he got injured early on in his caeer. Of course, he would be more than set if he suffered a horrible injury this year and made only $11 million in his career.

Albert is making $16 mil this year and had made about $90 mil in his career, so he can afford to take a gamble. As Doublem said, he is such a talent that even if he has a devastating injury this year he will still get a monster deal next year. Even if he can never play again, he is still in the top 1% in terms of wealth, so he won't lose much sleep.

Hitmen77
02-14-2011, 11:13 AM
They had to sign Holliday, though. Albert was openly pissed off that the Cards had regressed and spent less money since moving into the new park. He said for him to re-sign the Cards would have to make an effort to put a great team around him.

It is a tough spot for the Cardinals. Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time, and the Cards should never lose him being in the market they are. Signing him to a 10/$300 mil contract would be horrible, as the Cards would be burning the salary for the last two years of the contract in the absolute best case scenario. The Cards are a storied team with a massive, loyal fanbase which wouldn't stop going to games if Pujols left. I hope they work something out, because I would REALLY hate seeing him play LF for the Yankees or DHing for the Red Sox next year.

Agreed. Middle market teams that shell out $30 million/yr to lock up the face of their franchise until he's well past his prime are likely handcuffing their payroll for years to come.

The Twins were able to lock up Mauer for less than he would have gotten on the open market....but it's not like they low-balled him at $23M/yr. He's from Minnesota and I can only imaging that was a factor in working out that deal. But they're still sinking about 1/4 of their payroll on only him for the coming years.

I'd have to see what the Cards offered him to see if they totally lowballed him or if he turned down a great offer because it wasn't $30 million. But in general, my reaction is "ugh". Start spreading the news.....I can see Albert in NY pinstripes next spring. Who cares if they already have a high-priced all-star 1B. They've got money to burn. They lost out on Cliff Lee and probably won't want to repeat that again.

If the current MLB economics existed 30-40 years ago, we'd probably have Johnny Bench, George Brett, etc. all entering the HOF wearing a Yankees (or other large market) cap.

pearso66
02-14-2011, 11:33 AM
I don't know exactly what the Cardinals offered, but everything I'm hearing is 5 years $125 mil. While I think the $25 mil a year might work for him, I think they will have to go 7-8 years, or if they want 5 I'm thinking he might make them pay through the nose, maybe $35 mil a year. Also it doesn't sound like they are doing much negotiation if I'm hearing 10 years $300 and 5 years $125. Why can't they just meet in the middle? Why are they so far apart, St. Louis had to know what he wanted if it was public knowledge.

Hitmen77
02-14-2011, 11:35 AM
lot of talk about the Sawk and Yankee options, but both of them seem to be set at the 1B position for awhile......yeah I guess Pujols could platoon at DH.....and both of those teams have the revenue base to make pretty much anything happen......but could the Cubs be a serious player for Albert if he does make the market?

I think they will be----Pena is on a 1 year deal.....they will have a glaring need for a power hitting 1B in 2012.....and I say despite the Ricketts posturing they DO have the funding....I have not looked at their payroll in detail recently but dont they have some deals expiring after this season?

seeing him go to the Yanks or Sawk....yeah that would suck....seing him with the Flubs? disgusting

The Cubs could definitely be in play for him. Who knows where Ricketts stands on their payroll for 2012 and beyond, but if the Cubs flounder again this year and they start seeing some more empty seats at Wrigley, I could see the Ricketts deciding that they need to go all out to get Pujols to stop any ticket sales erosion. I agree that seeing him join the Cubs would make me :puking:


We can now officially commence the Chicago media and Cubs Game Fans speculating, campaigning and all but confirming he will be signing with the Cubs next year. (It's always been his dream to play for them, he grew up watching and rooting for the Cubs, Wrigley Field is his favorite MLB park to visit, etc., and whatever other bull**** they can make up).

Oh yes, for a while there, any big name free agent was practically camping out in front of Wrigley waiting to sign with the Cubs. Expect to see Paul Sullivan spend the next 8 months salivating over Pujols in Cubbie blue.

Fenway
02-14-2011, 11:36 AM
We can now officially commence the Chicago media and Cubs Game Fans speculating, campaigning and all but confirming he will be signing with the Cubs next year. (It's always been his dream to play for them, he grew up watching and rooting for the Cubs, Wrigley Field is his favorite MLB park to visit, etc., and whatever other bull**** they can make up).

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/New+York+Yankees+Workout+ArrkRZNKkPul.jpg

TheOldRoman
02-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Oh yes, for a while there, any big name free agent was practically camping out in front of Wrigley waiting to sign with the Cubs. Expect to see Paul Sullivan spend the next 8 months salivating over Pujols in Cubbie blue.I would be shocked if it took until the Cubs' first series against the Cardinals for the Trib to print a photoshopped picture of Pujols in the Cubs uniform. It's only a matter of time.

DumpJerry
02-14-2011, 01:24 PM
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/New+York+Yankees+Workout+ArrkRZNKkPul.jpg
I suddenly have an urge for a Coca Cola.

Fenway
02-14-2011, 01:30 PM
I suddenly have an urge for a Coca Cola.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2619580368_f9a07d97a9.jpg?v=0

russ99
02-14-2011, 02:19 PM
I agree he is the best player, but the A-rod contract (both times) was an egregious overpay and really made him a mark for the general public to hate. I know Pujols is much more likable than A-Rod but if he turns down a $27M a year contract holding out for $30M plus....not only will it make him look really greedy, but he can't complain if the Cards can't pay Wainwright, Garcia, Rasmus and others down the road.

EDIT: Furthermore, his self imposed deadline of ST open is BS. He says he doesn't want to talk after ST starts, but that's what you have an agent for. He says he doesn't want to disrespect his teammates by making this an ongoing distraction....but whether they continue talking about a contract or not between now and the season starts it will be a season long topic and distraction.

+1.

Really when you're that rich, what's an extra million or three?

Very petty for Pujols holding out for such a ridiculous amount that he knows St. Louis really can't pay. Even $27M is a stretch for a mid market team.

Seems to me, he decided to leave St. Louis some time ago.

Fenway
02-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Pujols contract situation: Cardinals fans squirm; Cubs fans dream

Read more: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog%3af5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost%3a70e6ea7c-315b-4041-ab3e-8eb3bca0a5d9&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest#ixzz1Dxw9lfRi
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Bobby Thigpen
02-14-2011, 03:11 PM
I may be in the minority, but I've always considered Pujols to be every bit the butthead that Bonds was/is, except he has better PR people.

Taliesinrk
02-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I may be in the minority, but I've always considered Pujols to be every bit the butthead that Bonds was/is, except he has better PR people.

oh come on... based on what?

illinibk
02-14-2011, 03:56 PM
I may be in the minority, but I've always considered Pujols to be every bit the butthead that Bonds was/is, except he has better PR people.
For some reason, I have too, for the last few years at least. I don't have anything to substantiate it, I just get that feeling when looking at him. That's certainly not a reason to consider someone a jerk, but I think I may have convinced myself that publicly he's a great guy, but in private he's not the best to be around.

A quick search on Google yielded this, from the fall of 2006: http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/9730509. Hardly damning evidence, and everything else suggests that he is a stand up guy.

StillMissOzzie
02-15-2011, 01:10 AM
He's easily been one of the top two players in the game over the past decade, if not the best, but he hasn't been paid even remotely close to his worth.

I've always thought it would be good for baseball if Pujols stays in STL and generally dislike free agency, but this is probably the one time that I will side with a player.

If he was underpaid, whose fault is that? Did the Cardinals put a gun to his head and make him take the $100M deal now coming to an end? The problem I have with Pujols isn't the $ per year, it's the ten year part. What are the Cardinals to do with a grossly overpaid 40 or 41 year old DH 9 or 10 years from now? They be stuck eating half of that just to foist him upon an AL team for the last few years of the deal he is looking for.

I could see the Cards offering a 5-6 yr/$135-$160M and putting the onus on Pujols not to look like a greedy bastard by turning that down.

In general, I hate hearing about how athletes are underpaid compared to "the market". These guys want the lifetime security of a long term contract, but they also want market value year in and year out. Only the Yankees can do that, and with Texeira, I don't see them as players in the Pujols derby.

SMO
:gulp:

Foulke You
02-15-2011, 01:10 AM
I would be shocked if it took until the Cubs' first series against the Cardinals for the Trib to print a photoshopped picture of Pujols in the Cubs uniform. It's only a matter of time.
The Sun Times loves to do that little trick. If memory serves, they did one with Peavy in a Cubs jersey prior to the 2009 season.

soxnut1018
02-15-2011, 05:40 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2619580368_f9a07d97a9.jpg?v=0

Royal Crown?

Bobby Thigpen
02-15-2011, 09:06 AM
oh come on... based on what?
He comes off as a very arrogant person to me on the field. I can't really distill it into one or two things, I just get this feeling we're not really seeing the true person. I think it's an a big PR act. He just has the benefit of playing in St. Louis where they idolize anyone who's good at the game despite their personal defects. Maybe I'm wrong.

Remember, there was a time when LeBron wasn't thought to be that big a d-bag either.

soxfanreggie
02-15-2011, 09:33 AM
As hard as it is for me to say this, I wouldn't give him a 10-year contract if the price is $300 million. I think he is one of the most special baseball hitters I will ever see, but I don't think even he's worth that much. I just can't see him sitting there being happy in a few years when the Cardinals are not able to go out and sign other FAs since they would have him and Holliday locked up at almost $50 million combined and a lot of their other players are in stair-step deals with big raises each year.

If he wanted that much money, they should have ripped up the old contract a few years ago and spread more of the money out - so some years at $20 million instead of $15-16 million. That was something they probably both screwed up.

The only way I can see a $300 million contract getting done is if you have something like this (from his current contract) done on a much, much larger scale with the money being deferred without interest for even longer:
$3M/year (2007-11) deferred without interest, to be paid in 10 installments of $1.2M from 2020 to 2029, reducing present-day value at
signing to $90,276,957

WizardsofOzzie
02-15-2011, 12:40 PM
La Russa thinks the players union is trying to pressure Pujols into signing the big bucks contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6124272

soxfanatlanta
02-15-2011, 01:05 PM
La Russa thinks the players union is trying to pressure Pujols into signing the big bucks contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6124272

No evidence.

LaRussa just needs to shut the **** up.

DirtySox
02-15-2011, 01:05 PM
La Russa thinks the players union is trying to pressure Pujols into signing the big bucks contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6124272



Jeff Passan
Just talked with MLBPA director Michael Weiner about La Russa comments. Weiner: "We have had no conversations with Albert or Dan Lozano."
6 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/JeffPassan/status/37571531479457792)

spawn
02-15-2011, 01:07 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2619580368_f9a07d97a9.jpg?v=0

I suddenly have an urge for a Dr. Pepper.

doublem23
02-15-2011, 11:26 PM
Take the hard line, St. Louis. This guy's replaceable.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/1177_1011327_1109__ograph_%20_2_15_2011.png

Nellie_Fox
02-16-2011, 12:50 AM
Take the hard line, St. Louis. This guy's replaceable.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/1177_1011327_1109__ograph_%20_2_15_2011.png
Definite downward trend. He started on top, and now he's slipped to just the middle of the pack.

Viva Medias B's
02-16-2011, 08:53 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2619580368_f9a07d97a9.jpg?v=0

I suddenly have the urge for a Pepsi.

SOXPHILE
02-16-2011, 09:22 AM
...annnnnnd..THEY'RE OFF......The Chicago media has now begun the campaign, starting with David Haugh in today's Tribune.

He says the Cubs "should clear the books" to try and get Pujols. At any cost, the Ricketts family should spend the summer clearing budget space and be "embracing Pujols like a fifth sibling". He doesn't assume they will, but they should.

So, yes, clear all that budget space currently taken up by contracts from guys like Zambrano, Soriano, etc., and get Pujols. With the type of contract he's asking, and the actual money the Ricketts actually have available, what type of team does Haugh think the Cubs could field ? Pujols, and then the roster of last years Illinois High School state champion?

Anxiously awaiting articles from Paul Sullivan and Phil Rogers, as I'm sure their thoughts on this are forthcoming. David Kaplan and all his wisdom will be sure to weigh in on this too.

VenturaFan23
02-16-2011, 12:54 PM
Well the deadline has come and passed without anything. Get ready for the 'Pujols joining Cubs' speculation ALL SEASON LONG. I wonder how much of a distraction this will be for St. Louis this season.

VMSNS
02-16-2011, 01:00 PM
...annnnnnd..THEY'RE OFF......The Chicago media has now begun the campaign, starting with David Haugh in today's Tribune.

He says the Cubs "should clear the books" to try and get Pujols. At any cost, the Ricketts family should spend the summer clearing budget space and be "embracing Pujols like a fifth sibling". He doesn't assume they will, but they should.

So, yes, clear all that budget space currently taken up by contracts from guys like Zambrano, Soriano, etc., and get Pujols. With the type of contract he's asking, and the actual money the Ricketts actually have available, what type of team does Haugh think the Cubs could field ? Pujols, and then the roster of last years Illinois High School state champion?

Anxiously awaiting articles from Paul Sullivan and Phil Rogers, as I'm sure their thoughts on this are forthcoming. David Kaplan and all his wisdom will be sure to weigh in on this too.

Phil Rodgers' article on this is going to be mind-numbingly retarted. I'm excited.

Gavin
02-16-2011, 01:00 PM
Take the hard line, St. Louis. This guy's replaceable.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/1177_1011327_1109__ograph_%20_2_15_2011.png

That thing is kinda fun.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/255_242_319_6144_ograph_%20_2_16_2011.png

russ99
02-16-2011, 01:00 PM
Well the deadline has come and passed without anything. Get ready for the 'Pujols joining Cubs' speculation ALL SEASON LONG. I wonder how much of a distraction this will be for St. Louis this season.

Which will really make me laugh when he goes to the Angels, Yankees or Red Sox.

DirtySox
02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
That thing is kinda fun.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/255_242_319_6144_ograph_%20_2_16_2011.png


I did a spit-take.

Lip Man 1
02-16-2011, 01:11 PM
Red Sox and Yankees have no room for him unless he'd be willing to DH. Personally I see the Mets especially if Trump becoms part owner.

Lip

DirtySox
02-16-2011, 01:14 PM
Red Sox and Yankees have no room for him unless he'd be willing to DH. Personally I see the Mets especially if Trump becoms part owner.

Lip

The Yankees will make room. Believe it.

VenturaFan23
02-16-2011, 01:55 PM
The Yankees will make room. Believe it.

I believe this as well. They will just rotate Teixeira and Pujols at DH and 1B.

Taliesinrk
02-16-2011, 03:14 PM
He comes off as a very arrogant person to me on the field. I can't really distill it into one or two things, I just get this feeling we're not really seeing the true person. I think it's an a big PR act. He just has the benefit of playing in St. Louis where they idolize anyone who's good at the game despite their personal defects. Maybe I'm wrong.

Remember, there was a time when LeBron wasn't thought to be that big a d-bag either.

I have no problem with the bolded part. I guess my issue was the comparison to Bonds. Until I have more proof or stories, Bonds is definitely in a class by himself... and Pujols isn't even close.

As for the last sentence, speak for yourself. Since high school, I've thought Lebron was a ****.

DumpJerry
02-16-2011, 03:48 PM
The Yankees will make room. Believe it.

I believe this as well. They will just rotate Teixeira and Pujols at DH and 1B.
Teixeira will play Short Center.

However, now that the Yankees have Brian Anderson under their control, I don't think they need Prince Albert.

Bobby Thigpen
02-16-2011, 04:07 PM
I have no problem with the bolded part. I guess my issue was the comparison to Bonds. Until I have more proof or stories, Bonds is definitely in a class by himself... and Pujols isn't even close.

As for the last sentence, speak for yourself. Since high school, I've thought Lebron was a ****.
I was speaking more in the court of public opinion than anything else.

I don't know. There just seems to be a whole lot more to him than there appears.

stl_sox_fan
02-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Jose Oquendo is all for him leaving....you don't constantly run through stop signs at 3rd base without consequences!

g0g0
02-16-2011, 04:16 PM
...annnnnnd..THEY'RE OFF......The Chicago media has now begun the campaign, starting with David Haugh in today's Tribune.

He says the Cubs "should clear the books" to try and get Pujols. At any cost, the Ricketts family should spend the summer clearing budget space and be "embracing Pujols like a fifth sibling". He doesn't assume they will, but they should.

So, yes, clear all that budget space currently taken up by contracts from guys like Zambrano, Soriano, etc., and get Pujols. With the type of contract he's asking, and the actual money the Ricketts actually have available, what type of team does Haugh think the Cubs could field ? Pujols, and then the roster of last years Illinois High School state champion?

Anxiously awaiting articles from Paul Sullivan and Phil Rogers, as I'm sure their thoughts on this are forthcoming. David Kaplan and all his wisdom will be sure to weigh in on this too.

How the hell would we just "clear the books?" We've been trying to unload that sorry excuse for a ball player Soriano for a few years now. If we could rid of the couple of huge contracts we would have already done it. Hell, Soriano and Z would almost pay for half of that $300 million lol.

Hitmen77
02-16-2011, 04:27 PM
The Yankees will make room. Believe it.

Yep, in a New York minute.

I have no doubt in my mind that having Teix won't stand in the way of them going after Pujols.

Fenway
02-16-2011, 06:22 PM
Yep, in a New York minute.

I have no doubt in my mind that having Teix won't stand in the way of them going after Pujols.

If NYY has a bad season, if Boston has a bad season the drumbeat will start.

The Flubs???

NOW - if Cashman leaves NYY which is quite possible and NYY doesn't make playoffs - Hank WILL spend....

Miklasz is right - The Cards are betting nobody tops the A-Rod deal - Pujols thinks somebody will.


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_b46cb5b0-39e9-11e0-a284-00127992bc8b.html

DSpivack
02-16-2011, 06:55 PM
If NYY has a bad season, if Boston has a bad season the drumbeat will start.

The Flubs???

NOW - if Cashman leaves NYY which is quite possible and NYY doesn't make playoffs - Hank WILL spend....

Miklasz is right - The Cards are betting nobody tops the A-Rod deal - Pujols thinks somebody will.


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_b46cb5b0-39e9-11e0-a284-00127992bc8b.html

With that pitching staff right now I don't expect them to make the postseason.

WizardsofOzzie
02-16-2011, 07:04 PM
How the hell would we just "clear the books?" We've been trying to unload that sorry excuse for a ball player Soriano for a few years now. If we could rid of the couple of huge contracts we would have already done it. Hell, Soriano and Z would almost pay for half of that $300 million lol.
It's possible. I think the Ramirez, Fukudome, and Pena contracts all come off the books after this season. Depending on the route they take, they could put a lot of that money towards Pujols

Viva Medias B's
02-16-2011, 11:28 PM
That thing is kinda fun.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/255_242_319_6144_ograph_%20_2_16_2011.png

Where's Rowand?

doublem23
02-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Page 2 of the Trib's sports section today had a giant, Photoshopped picture of Albert in the Cubbie pinstripes.

TheOldRoman
02-17-2011, 10:18 AM
Page 2 of the Trib's sports section today had a giant, Photoshopped picture of Albert in the Cubbie pinstripes.I was right, but I figured they'd at least wait a few weeks. Wow.

SOXPHILE
02-17-2011, 10:51 AM
Page 2 of the Trib's sports section today had a giant, Photoshopped picture of Albert in the Cubbie pinstripes.

http://www.classictvhits.com/shows/sonnyandcher/pics/SonnyCher04.jpg "And the beat goes on..."

What was the over/under on how quickly one of the newspapers would print a photoshopped picture of him in a Cubs uni ?

luckyboy
02-17-2011, 10:55 AM
They also had a very small picture of Pujols in a White Sox hat in the lower corner of that giant photoshop of him.

PKalltheway
02-17-2011, 11:01 AM
I know this may sound facetious and downright crazy, but do you think the Nationals would get in on this at all? They've been showing interest in trying to lure big-name free agents there the last couple of years, albeit unsuccessfully (sans Jayson Werth).

asindc
02-17-2011, 11:04 AM
I know this may sound facetious and downright crazy, but do you think the Nationals would get in on this at all? They've been showing interest in trying to lure big-name free agents there the last couple of years, albeit unsuccessfully (sans Jayson Werth).

Not crazy at all. In fact, the talk here is that they are expected to go after him, just like they went after Texeira, Lee, and Greinke. They most likely won't get him, but they are expected to be players.

Moses_Scurry
02-17-2011, 11:07 AM
I know this may sound facetious and downright crazy, but do you think the Nationals would get in on this at all? They've been showing interest in trying to lure big-name free agents there the last couple of years, albeit unsuccessfully (sans Jayson Werth).

I could definitely see them trying. I don't know how high they would go, but I think it would be great! A team with Pujols, Werth, Harper, and Zimmerman with Strasburg as the Ace would be really good.

Go Nats!!

JermaineDye05
02-17-2011, 04:12 PM
If Albert gets the contract he wants, assuming that the team is not the Red Sox or Yankees, do you guys think that team's going to be able to contend? A contract like that can really handcuff an organization.

TDog
02-17-2011, 04:26 PM
I don't believe there is any team that would pay Puljos the money he is demanding. His demand is probably higher than the contract he will sign during the next offseason, and I doubt that another team will outbid the Cardinals.

It appears Puljos is gambling on having a monster season. His agent set the extension number outrageously high to assure he would either benefit from a bidding war or get a better contract than anyone would expect.

It's possible Puljos will have such an incredible season that his demands will be met or approached. It's possible that he could be injured and end up getting considerably less. But I would be surprised if the contract he demanded going into 2011 doesn't exceed the contract he signs before the 2012 season.

WhiteSox5187
02-17-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't believe there is any team that would pay Puljos the money he is demanding. His demand is probably higher than the contract he will sign during the next offseason, and I doubt that another team will outbid the Cardinals.

It appears Puljos is gambling on having a monster season. His agent set the extension number outrageously high to assure he would either benefit from a bidding war or get a better contract than anyone would expect.

It's possible Puljos will have such an incredible season that his demands will be met or approached. It's possible that he could be injured and end up getting considerably less. But I would be surprised if the contract he demanded going into 2011 doesn't exceed the contract he signs before the 2012 season.

I think there is a team that would, it would handcuff them and they wouldn't be able to contend, but there is an owner dumb enough out there to pay him that kind of money. The Rangers shelled out all that dough to get A-Rod only to quickly realize their mistake and the Nationals just handed Werth an ungodly contract. If Pujols is just after the money, he will find it. Now if he wants all that money and a winning team, he is going to be disappointed.

doublem23
02-17-2011, 04:31 PM
It's possible Puljos will have such an incredible season that his demands will be met or approached. It's possible that he could be injured and end up getting considerably less. But I would be surprised if the contract he demanded going into 2011 doesn't exceed the contract he signs before the 2012 season.

That may be true, but from Pujols' standpoint, it's still a winning move as long as the contract he signs next winter is higher than the best offer the Cardinals were willing to make, right? Sure maybe his 10 year/$300 M demand was pie in the sky, but since the bidding's only open to one team, why no just shoot for the moon? It's not like he and his agent can bluff the Cardinals into desperation. Ask for a stupid contract and if St. Louis gives in, HOORAY BEER!, if they don't, **** it, he'll have all the leverage next off-season. Reportedly the Cardinals best offer was in the $20 M per year over 8-year range. While I'd be surprised if he got more years than that, I'd be surprised if Albert signs a deal worth less than $160 M overall. Somebody's going to pay that man his money.

Lip Man 1
02-17-2011, 05:31 PM
Reports are also coming out that after he initially rejected the offewr they tried to get creative and try different things including offering him part ownership.

If true, given the value of franchises I'm surprised he turned it down even if it was only a small percentage.

Lip

asindc
02-17-2011, 05:38 PM
My initial impression is that Pujols does not want to stay in St. Louis, which is why he is making such a high demand.

ron_j_galt
02-17-2011, 05:48 PM
As long as a team has a reasonably large payroll, a $30 million contract is easy to accommodate. In 2010, a $100 million payroll would have ranked ninth. That could buy Pujols plus the entire roster of teams like the Rays, Blue Jays, or Rangers.

The Royals (who are already crying poor) paid $29 million last year for Jose Guillen, Gil Meche, and Kyle Farnsworth, so it's really just a matter of priorities.

TDog
02-17-2011, 05:48 PM
I think there is a team that would, it would handcuff them and they wouldn't be able to contend, but there is an owner dumb enough out there to pay him that kind of money. The Rangers shelled out all that dough to get A-Rod only to quickly realize their mistake and the Nationals just handed Werth an ungodly contract. If Pujols is just after the money, he will find it. Now if he wants all that money and a winning team, he is going to be disappointed.

The more teams realize their mistakes in signing outrageous contracts, the less chance there is that someone will offer a contract even more outrageous. A non-winning team might sign a free-agent to draw fans, but it won't sign a free-agent to guarantee a financial loss even if they draw fans. Barring an incredible season and probably an incredible postseason on top of it, I don't see any way Puljos is getting the money the Cardinals turned down.

I believe I am on the same page as doublem23 here. Puljos will get his money, barring injury. He wants teams to drive up his price by bidding for his services. His demand of the Cardinals wasn't where he expects the bidding to begin, but what he would consider an outstanding result of a bidding war.

There was no way the Cardinals were going to agree to Puljos demand. They have a good chance to get him for less as a free agent.

balke
02-22-2011, 08:34 AM
As long as a team has a reasonably large payroll, a $30 million contract is easy to accommodate. In 2010, a $100 million payroll would have ranked ninth. That could buy Pujols plus the entire roster of teams like the Rays, Blue Jays, or Rangers.

The Royals (who are already crying poor) paid $29 million last year for Jose Guillen, Gil Meche, and Kyle Farnsworth, so it's really just a matter of priorities.

That's just it too. Pujols' stats and presence in the lineup would have more value than a lot of teams top 2-3 money makers combined. And I think a team like the Giants who are set in terms of pitching could win more games with Pujols and also raise attendance and ticket prices enough to fully cover his contract.

St. Louis is just playing it smart though. I think they'll still land Albert. Probably not for 300 mil - but maybe 280+