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LITTLE NELL
02-11-2011, 06:23 AM
Cowley says its now a Sox town.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/3761701-419/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html

TommyJohn
02-11-2011, 07:19 AM
Cowley says its now a Sox town.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/3761701-419/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html


Oh, brother. ANd Cubbie fans are lighting up Mully and Hanley's show with their outrage. They are obviously not as familiar with Cowley as we are. If they were, they would be yawning.

moochpuppy
02-11-2011, 08:14 AM
Cowley says its now a Sox town.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/3761701-419/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html

I won't believe it until the Tribune says so. :rolleyes:

DrCrawdad
02-11-2011, 08:36 AM
Oh, brother. ANd Cubbie fans are lighting up Mully and Hanley's show with their outrage. They are obviously not as familiar with Cowley as we are. If they were, they would be yawning.

Sox a better team than the Cubbies? That's ok with most Cubbie fans. Say the Sox are more popular, that the Sox win The Attendance Game? Cubbie fans heads explode.

Nothing is more precious to them than the glory of holding The Attendance Championship Trophy each year.

LongLiveFisk
02-11-2011, 08:57 AM
I won't believe it until fans start staying away from Wrigley Field on a more regular basis.

SOXSINCE'70
02-11-2011, 09:07 AM
I won't believe it until the Tribune says so. :rolleyes:

You mean the CUB-Une??:shakehead::puking:

DrCrawdad
02-11-2011, 09:09 AM
I won't believe it until fans start staying away from Wrigley Field on a more regular basis.

I gave up caring about attendance/popularity when I realized I had no stake in it financially and/or as a fan. As soon as the Sox start writing me a check, and one that is based on attendance/popularity, I'll start caring. The Cubbies attendance/popularity seems to matter little in regards to the quality of the team on the field.

SephClone89
02-11-2011, 09:10 AM
You mean the CUB-Une??:shakehead::puking:

Teal?

SOXSINCE'70
02-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Cowley says its now a Sox town.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/3761701-419/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html


Yeah, sure, Joe. Since you're no longer the beat writer, NOW pat Kenny Williams on the back and give him
a hearty hand shake.After spending years knocking nearly every move he made.Class act, Joe.:rolleyes:

SOXSINCE'70
02-11-2011, 09:11 AM
Teal?

Now it is. Thanks.

Hitmen77
02-11-2011, 09:14 AM
Oh, brother. ANd Cubbie fans are lighting up Mully and Hanley's show with their outrage. They are obviously not as familiar with Cowley as we are. If they were, they would be yawning.

Yeah, this sounds like Cowley in his typical "stirring up ****" mode. But hey, if it's getting Cubs fans outraged, that's fine with me. :nod:

Sox a better team than the Cubbies? That's ok with most Cubbie fans. Say the Sox are more popular, that the Sox win The Attendance Game? Cubbie fans heads explode.

Nothing is more precious to them than the glory of holding The Attendance Championship Trophy each year.

Bingo. Many (..and before anyone replies, I didn't say "all" and I'll refrain from even saying "most") Cubs fans still want to pretend that the Sox are irrelevant and don't have any fans. Those clowns just need to face reality and see that this isn't 1998 anymore.

Do I think this is a "Sox town" now? No. I think Cowley is just trying to push people's buttons. The number of Cubs fans still, by far, outnumbers Sox fans. But the Sox have made big gains since winning over the World Series. This is a totally unscientific test, but when I'm out driving around where I live in DuPage, I see just as many (if not more) cars with Sox stickers or license plate frames as those with Cubs stuff. It doesn't mean it's a Sox town, but people can no longer assume anymore that everyone is a Cubs fans.

soxlady8
02-11-2011, 09:16 AM
Good article.
I am so excited for the season to start.

I don't think Chicago is going to "officially" be best in show in regards to baseball on a public perspective just yet.

#1 Wrigley Field must go (or if it doesn't go , the fascination has to wain ). When general visitors come to Chicago and go to a baseball game they go to Wrigley to see the Cubs. It is a historic ballpark in a trendy neighborhood that out of towners feel they must see. The true educated
baseball fan most likely goes to US Cell to see a better product and doesn't really care about Wrigley and the neighborhood.

#2 Celebrity endorsements must go up - Yes we need more non-Chicagoan celebs like Justin Beiber to hype up the Sox. We need the President and others to hype up the Sox. The "yuppy" backings of famous Chicagoans needs to fall by the wayside (such as Vaugh, Cusack , Sinese , etc. etc)

#3- We need to win not just this year, but for a couple years.
It doesn't have to mean be in the WS every year , but win the division
and be in the playoffs.

I honestly like being a great great fan of the second team in the second city.
I can get tickets good tickets at a non- insane price
and enjoy the game for what it is really is "baseball" and not a "frat" party.
I don't want the Sox to get to BIG to ruin it for me LOL

just my two cents on this article --

SephClone89
02-11-2011, 09:26 AM
Good article.
I am so excited for the season to start.

I don't think Chicago is going to "officially" be best in show in regards to baseball on a public perspective just yet.

#1 Wrigley Field must go (or if it doesn't go , the fascination has to wain ). When general visitors come to Chicago and go to a baseball game they go to Wrigley to see the Cubs. It is a historic ballpark in a trendy neighborhood that out of towners feel they must see. The true educated
baseball fan most likely goes to US Cell to see a better product and doesn't really care about Wrigley and the neighborhood.

#2 Celebrity endorsements must go up - Yes we need more non-Chicagoan celebs like Justin Beiber to hype up the Sox. We need the President and others to hype up the Sox. The "yuppy" backings of famous Chicagoans needs to fall by the wayside (such as Vaugh, Cusack , Sinese , etc. etc)

#3- We need to win not just this year, but for a couple years.
It doesn't have to mean be in the WS every year , but win the division
and be in the playoffs.

I honestly like being a great great fan of the second team in the second city.
I can get tickets good tickets at a non- insane price
and enjoy the game for what it is really is "baseball" and not a "frat" party.
I don't want the Sox to get to BIG to ruin it for me LOL

just my two cents on this article --

I agree with you besides the bolded part.

We need to look past our Cubbie-bashing and admit that Wrigley is a draw for "true" baseball fans as well. It's hard for us to imagine, because it's in our backyard, but I'm sure when fathers and sons and friends are drawing up maps and plans for baseball road trips, Wrigley is one of the first names they mention, and certainly the first name that comes up in conjunction to the Midwest. Just as baseball fans want to see Fenway Park, Dodger Stadium, etc.

The Cell doesn't offer anything terribly unique. There is no "must-see" aspect about it. Sure, thanks to the terrific renovations of the last six or seven years, travelling out-of-towners are more likely to make a stop at 35th and Shields if they're passing through or in Chicago when the Cubs are out of town...but that doesn't make it a destination.

And "quality of product on the field" is an absolute non-factor when it comes to baseball road trips. PNC Park and Camden Yards, just to name two, are some of the most praised parks in the majors.

AnkleSox
02-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Good article.
I am so excited for the season to start.

I don't think Chicago is going to "officially" be best in show in regards to baseball on a public perspective just yet.

#1 Wrigley Field must go (or if it doesn't go , the fascination has to wain ). When general visitors come to Chicago and go to a baseball game they go to Wrigley to see the Cubs. It is a historic ballpark in a trendy neighborhood that out of towners feel they must see. The true educated
baseball fan most likely goes to US Cell to see a better product and doesn't really care about Wrigley and the neighborhood.

#2 Celebrity endorsements must go up - Yes we need more non-Chicagoan celebs like Justin Beiber to hype up the Sox. We need the President and others to hype up the Sox. The "yuppy" backings of famous Chicagoans needs to fall by the wayside (such as Vaugh, Cusack , Sinese , etc. etc)

#3- We need to win not just this year, but for a couple years.
It doesn't have to mean be in the WS every year , but win the division
and be in the playoffs.

I honestly like being a great great fan of the second team in the second city.
I can get tickets good tickets at a non- insane price
and enjoy the game for what it is really is "baseball" and not a "frat" party.
I don't want the Sox to get to BIG to ruin it for me LOL

just my two cents on this article --

Please god not Justin Bieber.

asindc
02-11-2011, 09:55 AM
Sox a better team than the Cubbies? That's ok with most Cubbie fans. Say the Sox are more popular, that the Sox win The Attendance Game? Cubbie fans heads explode.

Nothing is more precious to them than the glory of holding The Attendance Championship Trophy each year.

I'm only mildly annoyed by all things Cubs, but this is exactly my sentiment, and it says it all as far as I'm concerned.

asindc
02-11-2011, 10:00 AM
I agree with you besides the bolded part.

We need to look past our Cubbie-bashing and admit that Wrigley is a draw for "true" baseball fans as well. It's hard for us to imagine, because it's in our backyard, but I'm sure when fathers and sons and friends are drawing up maps and plans for baseball road trips, Wrigley is one of the first names they mention, and certainly the first name that comes up in conjunction to the Midwest. Just as baseball fans want to see Fenway Park, Dodger Stadium, etc.

The Cell doesn't offer anything terribly unique. There is no "must-see" aspect about it. Sure, thanks to the terrific renovations of the last six or seven years, travelling out-of-towners are more likely to make a stop at 35th and Shields if they're passing through or in Chicago when the Cubs are out of town...but that doesn't make it a destination.

And "quality of product on the field" is an absolute non-factor when it comes to baseball road trips. PNC Park and Camden Yards, just to name two, are some of the most praised parks in the majors.

That's true to some extent but some hardcore baseball fans I know here in DC have been to Chicago a few times and visited both parks. They have noticed that the fans at Comiskey (not calling it the Cell, just my thing) are more into the game and generally more knowledgeable. Take it for what it's worth.

SephClone89
02-11-2011, 10:14 AM
That's true to some extent but some hardcore baseball fans I know here in DC have been to Chicago a few times and visited both parks. They have noticed that the fans at Comiskey (not calling it the Cell, just my thing) are more into the game and generally more knowledgeable. Take it for what it's worth.

Sure, but I'm not certain that this is contradictory to my post.

MUsoxfan
02-11-2011, 10:21 AM
Please god not Justin Bieber.

That little **** has been all over my TV lately and honest to God, I have no idea who he is or why he's famous

SI1020
02-11-2011, 10:30 AM
Please god not Justin Bieber. The thought of him makes me want to retch. Let him "sing" at Wrigley.

SI1020
02-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Cowley says its now a Sox town.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/3761701-419/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html You and I both remember when it really was.

soxlady8
02-11-2011, 10:37 AM
Interesting perspective on the Ballparks.
Yes US Cell is a nice park , but there are many more today that are better
even with poor teams playing in them.

The Twins had a good ball team at the Dome and in no way would I have wanted to go see them there !

The Rays had/have a good ball team at the Trop and again , I would not want to see them.

TomBradley72
02-11-2011, 10:53 AM
Oh, brother. ANd Cubbie fans are lighting up Mully and Hanley's show with their outrage. They are obviously not as familiar with Cowley as we are. If they were, they would be yawning.


That was a pretty funny dynamic to wake up to-
One caller's primary argument was around the popularity of the 1969 and 1984 Cubs (who he referred to as "Zim's guys" :?:)- a team from 42 years ago known for pulling a choke job, and a team from 27 years ago known for blowing a 2-0 lead in the NLCS. Go Cubbies!
Another caller actually referred to Richard Pryor wearing a Cubs jersey in "Brewster's Millions" as evidence of their popularity....along with all of their "celebrity" fans.
In the 40 years I've been a White Sox fan- a Cubs fan has NEVER been worked up about who's team is the better baseball team. But as other posters have commented- bring up "popularity" or attendance and you have a fight on your hands.

kittle42
02-11-2011, 11:04 AM
Sox a better team than the Cubbies? That's ok with most Cubbie fans. Say the Sox are more popular, that the Sox win The Attendance Game? Cubbie fans heads explode.

Nothing is more precious to them than the glory of holding The Attendance Championship Trophy each year.

Their trophy case overfloweth! Nimrods. I have yet to see the "popularity" column in the standings. Maybe it's next to record in the last 10 games? I need to get someone in the Wrigley bleachers to point it out to me next time I'm there.

Moses_Scurry
02-11-2011, 11:23 AM
That was a pretty funny dynamic to wake up to-
One caller's primary argument was around the popularity of the 1969 and 1984 Cubs (who he referred to as "Zim's guys" :?:)- a team from 42 years ago known for pulling a choke job, and a team from 27 years ago known for blowing a 2-0 lead in the NLCS. Go Cubbies!
Another caller actually referred to Richard Pryor wearing a Cubs jersey in "Brewster's Millions" as evidence of their popularity....along with all of their "celebrity" fans.
In the 40 years I've been a White Sox fan- a Cubs fan has NEVER been worked up about who's team is the better baseball team. But as other posters have commented- bring up "popularity" or attendance and you have a fight on your hands.

The funny thing about that is that Richard Pryor wearing a cub jersey was actually a sneaky jab at the cubs. Monty Brewster was a terrible career minor league pitcher. The reason he wore the cub jersey was because they were "the only team smart enough" to have him pitch for them.

hi im skot
02-11-2011, 11:43 AM
Nice to see that Joe Cowley is still an asshat.

doublem23
02-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Nice to see that Joe Cowley is still an asshat.

And the Sun-Times is still desperate for pageviews.

SephClone89
02-11-2011, 12:06 PM
In the 40 years I've been a White Sox fan- a Cubs fan has NEVER been worked up about who's team is the better baseball team. But as other posters have commented- bring up "popularity" or attendance and you have a fight on your hands.

Their trophy case overfloweth! Nimrods. I have yet to see the "popularity" column in the standings. Maybe it's next to record in the last 10 games? I need to get someone in the Wrigley bleachers to point it out to me next time I'm there.

To be fair, Cubs/Sox isn't about which team is better...that would be stupid. While the Cubs have been abysmal for a century, the Sox haven't been much better. Yes, the title in '05 made a big difference...but we can't act like the Sox are this amazing perennial winning team while the Cubs are the eternal cellar-dwellers.

Being a baseball fan isn't about liking the better team. It's about liking your team. I'm not a Sox fan because the Sox are a better baseball team than the Cubs. They weren't a better team back in '98 when I first fell in love with the game. I'm a Sox fan because my dad is a South Sider and I've pretty much always been a Sox fan.

What effect is "my team is a better baseball team" argument supposed to have? "Oh ****, you're right. Better stop supporting my childhood team! I'm a Sox fan now!"

Nellie_Fox
02-11-2011, 12:07 PM
Please god not Justin Bieber.Bieber is a much better fit on the north side.

DumpJerry
02-11-2011, 12:10 PM
Please god not Justin Bieber.
http://www.solarnavigator.net/music/music_images/ozzy_osbourne_portrait.jpg
What's a Bieber?

LITTLE NELL
02-11-2011, 01:07 PM
You and I both remember when it really was.

Yes we do!

TomBradley72
02-11-2011, 01:13 PM
To be fair, Cubs/Sox isn't about which team is better...that would be stupid. While the Cubs have been abysmal for a century, the Sox haven't been much better. Yes, the title in '05 made a big difference...but we can't act like the Sox are this amazing perennial winning team while the Cubs are the eternal cellar-dwellers.

Being a baseball fan isn't about liking the better team. It's about liking your team. I'm not a Sox fan because the Sox are a better baseball team than the Cubs. They weren't a better team back in '98 when I first fell in love with the game. I'm a Sox fan because my dad is a South Sider and I've pretty much always been a Sox fan.

What effect is "my team is a better baseball team" argument supposed to have? "Oh ****, you're right. Better stop supporting my childhood team! I'm a Sox fan now!"

I understand the whole dynamic- I've been dealing with it since I was playing wiffle ball when I was 7 years old- but of all the fans of all the teams I've every encountered, NO fans hang their hat on the "popularity" argument more than Cubs fans.

hi im skot
02-11-2011, 01:14 PM
I understand the whole dynamic- I've been dealing with it since I was playing wiffle ball when I was 7 years old- but of all the fans of all the teams I've every encountered, NO fans hang their hat on the "popularity" argument more than Cubs fans.

It's all they have going for them...

SoxGirl4Life
02-11-2011, 01:46 PM
On pure comedy value alone, I have to give props to Joe. I'm spitting out my soup and the rat/maze reference..lol

NLaloosh
02-11-2011, 01:59 PM
It is a Sox town now! And, it will be - all the way until the flubs carry a .500 record into August one year. Then, they will pack the place because "this will be the year".

LongLiveFisk
02-11-2011, 02:11 PM
It's all they have going for them...

Yes, and they milk it quite well.

dwitt76
02-11-2011, 02:11 PM
until the flubs carry a .500 record into August one year. Then, they will pack the place because "this will be the year".

:kneeslap:

shenk16
02-11-2011, 02:14 PM
This may have been discussed before, but if a Cubs fan were to come on here and post are they required to put "this is the year" in teal?

TheOldRoman
02-11-2011, 02:16 PM
It is a Sox town now! And, it will be - all the way until the flubs carry a .500 record into August one year. Then, they will pack the place because "this will be the year".It's gonna happen!

chisoxfanatic
02-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I saw this link posted on Facebook...It's a really good read...I'm feeling really good about this year. (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/3761701-417/cowley-call-me-crazy-but-its-a-sox-town-now.html)

Soxfan 78
02-11-2011, 04:42 PM
Good article.
I am so excited for the season to start.

I don't think Chicago is going to "officially" be best in show in regards to baseball on a public perspective just yet.

#1 Wrigley Field must go (or if it doesn't go , the fascination has to wain ). When general visitors come to Chicago and go to a baseball game they go to Wrigley to see the Cubs. It is a historic ballpark in a trendy neighborhood that out of towners feel they must see. The true educated
baseball fan most likely goes to US Cell to see a better product and doesn't really care about Wrigley and the neighborhood.

#2 Celebrity endorsements must go up - Yes we need more non-Chicagoan celebs like Justin Beiber to hype up the Sox. We need the President and others to hype up the Sox. The "yuppy" backings of famous Chicagoans needs to fall by the wayside (such as Vaugh, Cusack , Sinese , etc. etc)

#3- We need to win not just this year, but for a couple years.
It doesn't have to mean be in the WS every year , but win the division
and be in the playoffs.

I honestly like being a great great fan of the second team in the second city.
I can get tickets good tickets at a non- insane price
and enjoy the game for what it is really is "baseball" and not a "frat" party.
I don't want the Sox to get to BIG to ruin it for me LOL

just my two cents on this article --


Vaughn shows up at Sox games on occasion, I sat behind him at one last season. Didn't want to bother him for a pic as he seemed to be with friends but I did take a couple shots with my iPhone to show my friends I wasn't bs'ing them that he was there..:wink:

LongLiveFisk
02-11-2011, 04:57 PM
I wonder what the percentage of ticket sales are to tourists. I am sure it's hard to gauge it, but mainly out-of-staters and people like that who purchase tickets. I always hear that a lot of their ticket sales are to tourists and not Cubs fans, per se.

soxlady8
02-11-2011, 05:58 PM
I have seen Vaughn there too behind the dugout twice.
However, he is there when the Cubs aren't in town and does NOT wear a Sox hat at all ... or even black. It appears he is there just to see a game with his entourage and that is it !!

Whitesox029
02-11-2011, 06:33 PM
I wonder what the percentage of ticket sales are to tourists. I am sure it's hard to gauge it, but mainly out-of-staters and people like that who purchase tickets. I always hear that a lot of their ticket sales are to tourists and not Cubs fans, per se.
There was an article last year in the Tribune business section (which I now can't find) in which the Cubs themselves stated that in surveys they did over a two week period, 37% of Wrigley Field patrons were from out of state. Thirty-Seven Percent. Even I think that's a little high, and I didn't see a sample size, but even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and cut that number down by 1/3, 25% of Wrigley's visitors are from out of state. That's pretty hard to explain away.
I think there are in fact just as many Sox fans as Cubs fans in the city of Chicago and the surrounding area, just from my experience living here. Someone else mentioned driving around in DuPage Co. and seeing just as much Sox gear on cars and houses and people. It was true when I was in high school as well; my friends were more or less an even split. The same can't be said on a state or national level, (definitely more Cubs fans living in Champaign year-round) but if we're talking about who owns the city, then that doesn't really matter.
In any case, this article by Cowley is having the desired effect of stirring up controversy, I think. If you read it carefully, he doesn't really mention attendance in much detail. All he's really arguing is that the White Sox organization is in a much better state than the Cubs, both on and off the field, which is pretty old news. It's been true for the better part of ten years now, with 2007 and 2003 the exceptions in terms of baseball success.

Hitmen77
02-12-2011, 01:56 PM
Another factor in the Sox gaining ground in Chicago (aside from winning the WS and ballpark/neighborhood improvements) is the more equal footing with the Cubs in terms of TV coverage.

As was mentioned in the 30 Yrs of Reinsdorf thread, there was a time when the Sox were relegated to pay-TV and the Cubs were broadcasting just about every game on free TV on WGN (in Chicago plus across the country on cable).

The Cubs may still have more games on WGN, but it's no longer a huge factor. WGN has slashed its Cubs coverage and both teams split games between CSN, WGN, and WCIU. For the past decade or so, it's no longer been an issue of not enough people getting access to Sox games.

This is a big difference in bringing in kids (who in 10 years will be ticket-buying customers) to your fan base than was the case in the late 60s/early 70s and again in the 1980s.

rcescato
02-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Sox a better team than the Cubbies? That's ok with most Cubbie fans. Say the Sox are more popular, that the Sox win The Attendance Game? Cubbie fans heads explode.

Nothing is more precious to them than the glory of holding The Attendance Championship Trophy each year.

LOL thats what I say to them all the time. The attendance trophy is what baseball is all about. The attendance hall of fame is theirs.:)

Lip Man 1
02-12-2011, 05:45 PM
Seph:

The Sox haven't been much better? I'll have to strongly disagree with that. Since the start of the "Golden Era" of White Sox baseball in 1951 it hasn't even been close. Compare the number of wins, winning seasons, 90 win or more seasons. Ad of course the last two World Series appearances made by a Chicago team had "White Sox" on the script.

Yankee - like? No...but far and away better by leaps and bounds than what the clowns on the North Side have done in the past 60 years.

Lip

Foulke You
02-12-2011, 08:01 PM
Seph:

The Sox haven't been much better? I'll have to strongly disagree with that. Since the start of the "Golden Era" of White Sox baseball in 1951 it hasn't even been close. Compare the number of wins, winning seasons, 90 win or more seasons. Ad of course the last two World Series appearances made by a Chicago team had "White Sox" on the script.

Yankee - like? No...but far and away better by leaps and bounds than what the clowns on the North Side have done in the past 60 years.

Lip
You beat me to it Lip. I was going to post something similar. The Sox rarely ever bottom out on a season and lose 87-90 games in a season. In fact, it has happened so little in the last 20 or so years, I can name the two seasons when it happened. 1989 and 2007. Losing about 90 games was the norm for many seasons on the North Side. Heck, the Cubs hadn't posted back to back winning seasons from 1972 thru 2008. We may not have the hardware, but the Sox have historically always put a better product on the field than the Cubs.

SOXSINCE'70
02-13-2011, 11:27 AM
That's true to some extent but some hardcore baseball fans I know here in DC have been to Chicago a few times and visited both parks. They have noticed that the fans at Comiskey (not calling it the Cell, just my thing) are more into the game and generally more knowledgeable. Take it for what it's worth.

I also refer to the White Sox ballpark as Comiskey Park.You are not alone.

havelj
02-13-2011, 01:01 PM
The fact that the Cubs failed just have back-to-back .500 seasons for 36 years from 1972 to 2008 in simply amazing.

Wsoxmike59
02-13-2011, 01:06 PM
I wonder what the percentage of ticket sales are to tourists. I am sure it's hard to gauge it, but mainly out-of-staters and people like that who purchase tickets. I always hear that a lot of their ticket sales are to tourists and not Cubs fans, per se.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog%3af5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost%3a2b8a0d29-ce49-4d27-b89d-db70ca1d290d&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest#axzz1DrY5STlp

From Ed Sherman's Blog on Crain's. He got the 37% figure right from the Cubs own mouth.

Plan D: Tax for out-of-towners. The Cubs like to point out that 37% of the people who attend games at Wrigley come from out of town. OK, let's make the sap from Des Moines pay for the renovations.

Charge a tax on tickets sold to fans outside of 75 to 100 miles of (insert your company name here) Field. An additional $5 from those 1.3 million tourists' tickets would make those new locker rooms extra nice.

What's an additional $5 when you're already spending hundreds on food, hotel and travel expenses for a trip to the promised land?



P.S. I got banninated once for talking attendance on this site, but I'll risk it again as to only state if you factor in the tourists in to Wrigley's attendance, that 1.3M mark is what they generally beat the Sox by in yearly numbers.

SOXPHILE
02-13-2011, 01:25 PM
The fact that the Cubs failed just have back-to-back .500 seasons for 36 years from 1972 to 2008 in simply amazing.

That's not quite true. They had back to back over .500 seasons in 2003 and 2004.

Here's the thing. There's probably about the same number of Sox fans as there are Cubs fans. That is, when you are talking about actual, real fans. Fans who follow the game, the standings. People who actually know what a balk and the infield fly rule are, and at least who some of the players are out on the field. It's probably split pretty close to 50/50. It's when you start factoring in all the pseudo, casual fans. The Lincoln Park Trixies and their pink Cub half shirts; the Wrigleyville Fratboy Assclowns wearing their backwards hat (lots of "cute little white bear holding the bat" ones) and flipflops; the tourists, out of towners and yuppies with the sweater tied over their shoulders and the brand new bright blue Cubs hat with the sticker still on it, perched jauntily on top their heads. When you add all that to the mix, then that's where you get the whole "there's a lot more Cubs fans than Sox fans" and "the Cubs are WAY more popular" bits.

Foulke You
02-14-2011, 01:53 AM
The Lincoln Park Trixies and their pink Cub half shirts; the Wrigleyville Fratboy Assclowns wearing their backwards hat (lots of "cute little white bear holding the bat" ones) .
A bit off topic here...but God I hate those hats. The only hat more silly and ridiculous than the "cute bear holding the bat" are the ones that feature this logo: http://www.cubsbythenumbers.com/big-cubbie.gif If there is a team in the four major pro sports leagues that has more wimpy looking logos than the Cubs, I dare you to find it. :cool:

FielderJones
02-14-2011, 01:45 PM
A bit off topic here...but God I hate those hats. The only hat more silly and ridiculous than the "cute bear holding the bat" are the ones that feature this logo: http://www.cubsbythenumbers.com/big-cubbie.gif If there is a team in the four major pro sports leagues that has more wimpy looking logos than the Cubs, I dare you to find it. :cool:

I think they wear the bear holding the bat logo is because it's from the last time (http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/detail_page.asp?fileName=nl_1908_chicago.gif&Entryid=124) they won a won a World Series. The book Crazy '08 (http://books.google.com/books?id=wDnXPMsWp3cC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=lackadaisical+bear+holding+a+bat&source=bl&ots=Xw3kyLqmL9&sig=ZaXD11R1nnC810FqP3rhPs7lUsU&hl=en&ei=Y3hZTc6BJ9Ohtwf4-9GlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lackadaisical%20bear%20holding%20a%20bat&f=false) describes it as "a rather lackadaisical bear holding a bat."

SoxandtheCityTee
02-14-2011, 02:09 PM
Lip and FoulkeYou both beat me to it. Sox have been much better over sustained periods over the past 40 years. If you didn't have a chance to see (for example) the team come in second to Oakland with 90 wins when there was no Wild Card, you may not realize this. Championships are not the only way to measure a good but not ultimately successful team vs. a team that just sucked.

I'd never suggest to a Cubs fan that they should switch their allegiance. That's not the point. I was invited to someone's home and one of the other guests, learning from a third person that I was a Sox fan, sneered at me that he wouldn't be a fan of a team that only drew a thousand fans a game. No humor. No recognition that that number is silly. Total rudeness. I hadn't said a word about the WS or anything else -- this was his unprovoked, opening salvo. And this was a grown man, not a kid.

Sure, I've met rude Sox fans in my life. But not rude in this peculiarly popularity-obsessed way. That's a Cub fan thing -- not all of them, to be sure, but enough to get the outpouring that Cowley was going for.

Max Power
02-14-2011, 02:42 PM
By my count Sox apparel outnumbered Cubs apparel at least 3-1 yesterday at Old Orchard- of all places. Maybe Cowley's on to something.

jdm2662
02-14-2011, 02:54 PM
First, I didn't read the article because I find Cowley to be a piece of **** writer.

Second, I don't give two ****s if the Sox are more popular than not. Whenever I come across a Cub fan that brags on how their team is always supported, I always ask them, how many games did you attend this year, last year, etc. Almost all the time, I attend more Sox games then they do. I'm a Fire and soccer fan, I stopped caring many moons ago how popular the team or sport is. I'm a fan, if you are not, oh well. If I wanted to be popular, I would've tried to join the cool kids in my school growing up.

Third, I only care about wins and losses. That's it. If the teams I root for are winning, I'm happy and will laugh at anyone that tries to downgrade it. Anyone that does this is simply jealous of my job. Hahaha.

Personally, I like the fact the Sox aren't as popular than the Cubs. It's much easier for me to pick and choose when I want to go a game. And, the three most attended series (NYY, BOS, and Cubs), I have no interest in attending anyway. If the Sox did sell out, I wouldn't complain, either. I simply would watch the games at home....

Noneck
02-14-2011, 02:59 PM
I frequent another small site and last year the Sox thread out numbered the cubs, which was a 1st. I also found it very strange what the Sox did this year regarding payroll. The Sox ownership is a very shrewd bunch.

C-Dawg
02-14-2011, 03:20 PM
...the Wrigleyville Fratboy Assclowns wearing their backwards hat (lots of "cute little white bear holding the bat" ones)

You mean the logo that looks like the bear has been impaled on the bat? :?: That one is just awful.

By the way, some Sox fans wear their hats backward too. I have a giant fat head, and I find most baseball hats are more comfortable worn that way. I don't know why. (I doubt that's why the Fratboys wear theirs backwards though)

djcollie03
02-14-2011, 03:38 PM
I'd still say that there are more Cubs "fans" simply because anyone I know who is a casual fan seems to lean more towards the Cubs. Who doesn't like the idea of playing hooky from work/school, a la Ferris Bueller, in a vibrant neighborhood with tons of bars, eye candy, etc.? The reality is the Sox fan acts like a consumer - wins and losses matter. There was an interesting article in the Tribune about this that I thought did a decent job approaching a Cub "fans" attachment to their team regardless of their success. Last or next to last 40% of the time is pretty bad.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0213-cubs-white-sox-scorecasti20110211,0,6720087.story

LongLiveFisk
02-14-2011, 05:21 PM
Plan D: Tax for out-of-towners. The Cubs like to point out that 37% of the people who attend games at Wrigley come from out of town. OK, let's make the sap from Des Moines pay for the renovations.
Charge a tax on tickets sold to fans outside of 75 to 100 miles of (insert your company name here) Field. An additional $5 from those 1.3 million tourists' tickets would make those new locker rooms extra nice.


37% is a pretty high figure, if it's indeed accurate. So why does this fact get swept under the carpet when attendance is brought up? I mean, Cubs fans would have you believe the park is always full because they have more fans, not because they have a tourism advantage.

Hitmen77
02-14-2011, 05:53 PM
Lip and FoulkeYou both beat me to it. Sox have been much better over sustained periods over the past 40 years. If you didn't have a chance to see (for example) the team come in second to Oakland with 90 wins when there was no Wild Card, you may not realize this. Championships are not the only way to measure a good but not ultimately successful team vs. a team that just sucked.

This happened to the Sox twice: In '72 and 1990. Both times they finished behind monster Oakland teams. Not only would they have qualified for a wild card if such a thing existed, they would have won the AL East both of those years with their W-L record if they had been in that division.

I'd never suggest to a Cubs fan that they should switch their allegiance. That's not the point. I was invited to someone's home and one of the other guests, learning from a third person that I was a Sox fan, sneered at me that he wouldn't be a fan of a team that only drew a thousand fans a game. No humor. No recognition that that number is silly. Total rudeness. I hadn't said a word about the WS or anything else -- this was his unprovoked, opening salvo. And this was a grown man, not a kid.

That's pretty obnoxious!




37% is a pretty high figure, if it's indeed accurate. So why does this fact get swept under the carpet when attendance is brought up? I mean, Cubs fans would have you believe the park is always full because they have more fans, not because they have a tourism advantage.

Worse than that, they'll have you believe that their park is always full because they have better fans. :rolleyes:

I'll agree that they have more fans overall, but they can't grasp the idea that having a larger fan base is not the same as having better fans.

SoxandtheCityTee
02-14-2011, 07:46 PM
This happened to the Sox twice: In '72 and 1990. Both times they finished behind monster Oakland teams. Not only would they have qualified for a wild card if such a thing existed, they would have won the AL East both of those years with their W-L record if they had been in that division.


Only twice? It seemed more often. :redneck Man, 1990 was devastating. :whiner:

Hitmen77
02-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Only twice? It seemed more often. :redneck Man, 1990 was devastating. :whiner:

That 1990 team had so much heart winning 94 games, it was sad to see them blocked from the playoffs by the 103-win A's with the steroid twins Canseco and McGwire. As if to rub salt in it, the Sox had to play the Red Sox in Fenway the night that 88-win team clinched the AL East. I remember that this was my reaction--->:angry: watching those Boston fans on TV dancing and strutting over their division title while our Sox were 7 games better than them.

I'm too young to remember '72, but that team won 87 games in a strike-shortened season. Averaged over a 162 game schedule, they would have won 91 games.

Lip Man 1
02-14-2011, 09:47 PM
Gang:

If the "wild card and / or split division" format had been around in the 1950's and 1960's the Sox would have made the playoffs six times including three straight from 1963 through 1965.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
02-14-2011, 09:49 PM
Gang:

If the "wild card and / or split division" format had been around in the 1950's and 1960's the Sox would have made the playoffs six times including three straight from 1963 through 1965.

Lip

I think the White Sox had something like the second best winning percentage from 1950 to 1967 and had they been in the NL they would have won something like five pennants.

Nellie_Fox
02-14-2011, 09:54 PM
I'll never recover from 1964. They won 98 games and finished second. No soup for you, White Sox! While I don't have a clear memory of it, in 1954 they went 94-60 and finished THIRD!

DrCrawdad
02-14-2011, 10:30 PM
I'll never recover from 1964. They won 98 games and finished second. No soup for you, White Sox! While I don't have a clear memory of it, in 1954 they went 94-60 and finished THIRD!

Gang:

If the "wild card and / or split division" format had been around in the 1950's and 1960's the Sox would have made the playoffs six times including three straight from 1963 through 1965.

Lip

The White Sox were a great team thru most of the 50's and 60's. I'd like to vomit whenever I hear about how the great the '69 Cubs were and how they got ripped off. They won 92 games. The best year of that HOF laden team.


Fitting that I was born in '64.

Lip Man 1
02-14-2011, 11:51 PM
From 1951 to 1967 the Sox had 17 consecutive "winning" seasons (3rd best in MLB history), and they won 90 or more games seven times. Also remember that MLB only played 154 games until the end of 1960.

The Sox 90 or more win seasons were in 1954 (94), 1955 (91), 1957 (90), 1959 (94), 1963 (94), 1964 (98), 1965 (95). They also won 89 games in 1953.

Lip

TommyJohn
02-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I'll never recover from 1964. They won 98 games and finished second. No soup for you, White Sox! While I don't have a clear memory of it, in 1954 they went 94-60 and finished THIRD!

AND 17 games behind the 111-43 Indians. Funny, that same 94-60 record would be good enough for the AL pennant five years later.

Dub25
02-15-2011, 12:02 AM
Do I think this is a "Sox town" now? No. I think Cowley is just trying to push people's buttons. The number of Cubs fans still, by far, outnumbers Sox fans. But the Sox have made big gains since winning over the World Series. This is a totally unscientific test, but when I'm out driving around where I live in DuPage, I see just as many (if not more) cars with Sox stickers or license plate frames as those with Cubs stuff. It doesn't mean it's a Sox town, but people can no longer assume anymore that everyone is a Cubs fans.[/QUOTE]

Tinley, Orland and Oak Forest is a solid strangle hold of Sox fans. I'm basing this off of the kids in the school district I work in. Way more Sox gear than Flubby blue.

Funny thing is the more obnoxious kids are Flub fans. :scratch:

thomas35forever
02-15-2011, 12:05 AM
I didn't read the article, but I'll tell you right now that the Sox have a long way to go before surpassing the Cubs. Winning the World Series was nice, but they'll have to do it a few more times before a shift in popularity can even be considered.

Dub25
02-15-2011, 12:15 AM
LOL thats what I say to them all the time. The attendance trophy is what baseball is all about. The attendance hall of fame is theirs.:)

Hey, the attendance trophy has been able to pay for Alfonso "Chipmunk" Soriano... looks like a chipmunk to my friends and I, Fukudome, Big Z, and others that Hendry can't move because of his idiotic schemes. Oh and lets not forget, they have no money but they give Carlos Pena 10 mil for a year and hand Marmol an extention but yet somehow the national Cub loving media thinks Pujols will be landed next year.

Dub25
02-15-2011, 12:19 AM
Lip and FoulkeYou both beat me to it. Sox have been much better over sustained periods over the past 40 years. If you didn't have a chance to see (for example) the team come in second to Oakland with 90 wins when there was no Wild Card, you may not realize this. Championships are not the only way to measure a good but not ultimately successful team vs. a team that just sucked.


I'd never suggest to a Cubs fan that they should switch their allegiance. That's not the point. I was invited to someone's home and one of the other guests, learning from a third person that I was a Sox fan, sneered at me that he wouldn't be a fan of a team that only drew a thousand fans a game. No humor. No recognition that that number is silly. Total rudeness. I hadn't said a word about the WS or anything else -- this was his unprovoked, opening salvo. And this was a grown man, not a kid.

Sure, I've met rude Sox fans in my life. But not rude in this peculiarly popularity-obsessed way. That's a Cub fan thing -- not all of them, to be sure, but enough to get the outpouring that Cowley was going for.

Really? They said that? I thought they didn't care about us? so confused in this thread. :scratch:

Dub25
02-15-2011, 12:21 AM
I'd still say that there are more Cubs "fans" simply because anyone I know who is a casual fan seems to lean more towards the Cubs. Who doesn't like the idea of playing hooky from work/school, a la Ferris Bueller, in a vibrant neighborhood with tons of bars, eye candy, etc.? The reality is the Sox fan acts like a consumer - wins and losses matter. There was an interesting article in the Tribune about this that I thought did a decent job approaching a Cub "fans" attachment to their team regardless of their success. Last or next to last 40% of the time is pretty bad.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0213-cubs-white-sox-scorecasti20110211,0,6720087.story

Check the bold. If we do that then so do the other 28 teams in MLB.

Hitmen77
02-15-2011, 10:50 AM
By my count Sox apparel outnumbered Cubs apparel at least 3-1 yesterday at Old Orchard- of all places. Maybe Cowley's on to something.

I think what we're seeing when I see more cars with Sox stuff and you're seeing more Sox stuff even at O.O. is an "enthusiasm gap" between the two fan bases. There still are more Cubs fans total out there, but observations show that there is more excitement about the Sox right now. I think that's what Cowley is getting at here.

That could change in July if the Cubs somehow find themselves in 1st place. Suddenly all the Cubbie gear and W flags will come out of the woodwork.....But, but, that can't be true! I have been told over and over again that Cubs fans are all total loyal die-hards no matter what. They're out there showing their Cubs pride through thick and thin!:redneck

MARTINMVP
02-15-2011, 11:54 AM
Another factor in the Sox gaining ground in Chicago (aside from winning the WS and ballpark/neighborhood improvements) is the more equal footing with the Cubs in terms of TV coverage.

As was mentioned in the 30 Yrs of Reinsdorf thread, there was a time when the Sox were relegated to pay-TV and the Cubs were broadcasting just about every game on free TV on WGN (in Chicago plus across the country on cable).

The Cubs may still have more games on WGN, but it's no longer a huge factor. WGN has slashed its Cubs coverage and both teams split games between CSN, WGN, and WCIU. For the past decade or so, it's no longer been an issue of not enough people getting access to Sox games.

This is a big difference in bringing in kids (who in 10 years will be ticket-buying customers) to your fan base than was the case in the late 60s/early 70s and again in the 1980s.

Made an impact on me as an 8 year old in 1992, when playing little league baseball. Everyone around me were Sox fans and when I wanted to start watching them, they were only on WGN one day a week. So I watched the Cubs and grew into whatever that thing was.

Even then when I resorted to watching Cub games, for the first few weeks or months, I remember thinking how "cooler" the Sox were, with the logo, and the Good Guys Wear Black motto, and the Big Hurt.

I've right the shipped in recent years, but there is no doubt that the lack of Sox games on free TV put a huge dent in their popularity.

MARTINMVP
02-15-2011, 12:04 PM
I frequent another small site and last year the Sox thread out numbered the cubs, which was a 1st. I also found it very strange what the Sox did this year regarding payroll. The Sox ownership is a very shrewd bunch.

By no means is my observation scientific, but between WhiteSoxInteractive.com, a couple of other White Sox message boards with a decent amount of activity, SouthSideSox/Sox Machine, you have a good amount of White Sox discussion on the Internet.

Compare to the amount of Cubs discussion.BleedCubbieBlue seems to do well - that is one exception. One of the popular Cubbie message boards (Northside Baseball) has far less activity than this board - their Cubs and General baseball sections are weak compared to the content here.

There are no Cubbie message boards that come close to being as good as WSI.

When you consider the lack of highly active websites devoted to Cubs discussion, it seems obvious that White Sox fans are more eager to discuss the X's and O's of the game of baseball.

Foulke You
02-19-2011, 02:02 AM
That could change in July if the Cubs somehow find themselves in 1st place. Suddenly all the Cubbie gear and W flags will come out of the woodwork.....But, but, that can't be true! I have been told over and over again that Cubs fans are all total loyal die-hards no matter what. They're out there showing their Cubs pride through thick and thin!:redneck
You are so right about this. The "W" flags all but disappeared en masse last season. My neighborhood was papered with them in the "It's Gonna Happen" era of 2007 and 2008.

DrCrawdad
02-19-2011, 08:21 AM
You are so right about this. The "W" flags all but disappeared en masse last season. My neighborhood was papered with them in the "It's Gonna Happen" era of 2007 and 2008.

True.

The 2005 World Series Championship may not have pushed the Sox over the top of the Cubbies in popularity but it changed the landscape, it changed the tone and tenor of Cubbie-dumb. Cubbie management were frightened by gains in Sox TV & radio ratings. Suddenly the Cubbies it seemed were focused on winning a World Series. "It's Gonna Happen" doesn't happen if the Sox didn't happen to win in '05.

Foulke You
02-20-2011, 01:55 AM
"It's Gonna Happen" doesn't happen if the Sox didn't happen to win in '05.
I really remember the whole "W" flag nonsense taking off after '05 as well. I know the team itself has always used it at the ballpark but as far as fans flying car flags with it, garage flags, etc...I didn't really explode until very recently.

ode to veeck
02-20-2011, 12:48 PM
Gang:

If the "wild card and / or split division" format had been around in the 1950's and 1960's the Sox would have made the playoffs six times including three straight from 1963 through 1965.

Lip

The Yankees remain the arch enemies to fans from those days ... some heart breakingly close seasons in that stretch.

ode to veeck
02-20-2011, 12:51 PM
The White Sox were a great team thru most of the 50's and 60's. I'd like to vomit whenever I hear about how the great the '69 Cubs were and how they got ripped off. They won 92 games. The best year of that HOF laden team.


Fitting that I was born in '64.

Their best year and they folded like a deck of wet cards after playing blazingly hot for the 1st 3/5s of the '69 season...it wasn't even close by the end of Sept.

ode to veeck
02-20-2011, 12:52 PM
I won't believe it until fans start staying away from Wrigley Field on a more regular basis.

Museum ticket sales shouldn't count :redneck

Red Barchetta
02-20-2011, 01:08 PM
I think a turning point for many Cub fans was 2003. I know family members and other close friends who are true Cub fans (vs. Wrigley Field/casual baseball watching fans) and they seriously suffered through a fan-based depression. They all believed there was no possible way, the Marllins were going to come into Wrigley Field and beat Prior and/or Wood back-to-back.

They also agree Bartmann was not the reason they lost and really felt let down by the Cubs. The SOX fan in me wanted to twist the knife a little, however I truly felt bad for these close friends and family members. Add the SOX WS victory two years later and it really rubbed salt in the wound.

With the Lou Pinella era resulting in the best record in the NL in 2008, only to be dropped and swept by the Wild Card Dodgers and the optimistic nature of most Cub fans have taken a real beating in the last 10 years.

Without the powerful Tribue marketing department, I expect the Cubs to return to the 70s era half-full ballpark. Especially if Ricketts does not secure any public funding (hello - are you watching the events in Wisconsin) to renovate Wrigley. He has got to figure out a strong plan B.

On the upside, I applaud their move to make Quade the manager vs. golden boy Ryne Sandberg. I think Quade did a good job for them and I think the players enjoy playing for him. That is until Zambrano has another key-game meltdown and Soriano muffs another routine play while hopping off the field...:rolleyes:

FreeBuck12
02-26-2011, 01:09 AM
As much as I dislike Cowley, I have to enjoy when he stirs the pot... its rather amusing, and he clearly does it just for the sake of doing it.

With that being said, I dont think that Chicago will be a Sox town until they've brought a few more pennants and championships to the city, based strictly on marketing. (The history of it between the two teams, not the current marketing.)

However with Cubdome leaving Chicago slowly based on the allure of Wrigley Field declining and the ability to produce on the field keeping at it's usual low, combined with the Sox "grinding" with the majority of their fan base not being as fickle as it is on the Northside, the wheels have been set in motion for Chitown to really become a Sox town in the future :)