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View Full Version : Las Vegas Proposing new Sports Arenas


Lamp81
02-08-2011, 04:33 PM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/feb/08/proposal-emerges-build-three-stadium-complex-downt/

It is way early in the project but in Las Vegas, there is a proposal for a Sports stadium complex that would be built for an NBA team, UNLV sports, and the AAA Baseball Las Vegas 51's.

The baseball stadium is being planned so that it could be converted to MLB size, if Las Vegas were to get a team.

If the A's strike out in California or the Rays are allowed to leave Tampa Bay, this could be an option.

I for one, would make an annual trip to see the White Sox play in Vegas against an AL opponent.

Red Barchetta
02-08-2011, 04:38 PM
Interesting idea. However the stadium designs look like bed pans. Especially the open-air one.

ewokpelts
02-08-2011, 04:39 PM
The vagas mayor has stated that he considers Las Vegas an AL West town. And that he figures the traveling fans of the AL would buy more tickets , particulary mentioning Boston, NYY, and the Sox.

DumpJerry
02-08-2011, 04:43 PM
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/ArnoldRothstein250.jpg
MLB in Vegas? An excellent idea!

asindc
02-08-2011, 05:01 PM
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/ArnoldRothstein250.jpg
MLB in Vegas? An excellent idea!

Exactly my first thought. I would think MLB would be the last of the four major leagues to locate there, with NFL being a close second.

downstairs
02-08-2011, 05:37 PM
I can't see it happening. Are they going to not allow baseball betting? I know they shut down all NBA betting for All Star day when it was there.

DSpivack
02-08-2011, 05:48 PM
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/ArnoldRothstein250.jpg
MLB in Vegas? An excellent idea!

Exactly my first thought. I would think MLB would be the last of the four major leagues to locate there, with NFL being a close second.

Oscar Goodman is still the mayor, for now.

Fenway
02-08-2011, 05:55 PM
The Vegas TV market isn't big enough....and there is no real adjacent market they can tap. Even Reno would still tilt to the Bay Area over hated Vegas.

102605
02-08-2011, 06:05 PM
The NFL is the only league that would work there and they will never put a team there.

downstairs
02-08-2011, 06:45 PM
Also, its the most transient city in America. Most people living in Vegas don't really think of it as their home town. Note that many casinos list a person's home city on their name tag- because that's part of the charm.

Any sports fans that live there are probably rooting for another team somewhere else in America.

Plus its a party city. Much like New Orleans. Baseball just isn't a "party" sport. Football would work in Vegas, but that's never going to happen because of gambling.

gregoriop
02-08-2011, 06:46 PM
Which NBA team would be the first to move? New Orleans?

e: I guess not "first" but just plain old move.

downstairs
02-08-2011, 06:48 PM
Which NBA team would be the first to move? New Orleans?

That's my guess. I live here. No one cares about the Hornets. In New Orleans it goes:

1. Saints
2. LSU football
...
...
100. Everything else.

Lamp81
02-08-2011, 11:25 PM
Oscar Goodman is still the mayor, for now.

Goodman's is not running for re-election, due to term limits. So his wife, Carolyn, is running instead.

More than likely, there will be another Mayor Goodman in Las Vegas for 4 more years. Oscar Goodman is beloved in Las Vegas and they will probably elect his sife, knowing that he would still have a big say in city matters.

DSpivack
02-09-2011, 01:39 AM
Goodman's is not running for re-election, due to term limits. So his wife, Carolyn, is running instead.

More than likely, there will be another Mayor Goodman in Las Vegas for 4 more years. Oscar Goodman is beloved in Las Vegas and they will probably elect his sife, knowing that he would still have a big say in city matters.

Yeah, I just think it's funny that the mob's lawyer became mayor of Vegas.

Hitmen77
02-09-2011, 11:42 AM
The Vegas TV market isn't big enough....and there is no real adjacent market they can tap. Even Reno would still tilt to the Bay Area over hated Vegas.

People don't realize how hard it is to have a metro area that can support an MLB team. Selling enough tickets for 81 games is a tall order. You can't just rely on casino-goers to draw 2.5 million per year. On top of that, as you mention, MLB teams rely heavily on local TV revenue to be competitive.

By the way, I love your sig from the Andy Hawkins game. What's going on next to Comiskey Park? It looks like a flying saucer is hovering next door.:o:

Foulke You
02-10-2011, 01:46 AM
Also, its the most transient city in America. Most people living in Vegas don't really think of it as their home town. Note that many casinos list a person's home city on their name tag- because that's part of the charm.

Any sports fans that live there are probably rooting for another team somewhere else in America.
Orlando is a transient/touristy city too and the Magic have found a successful formula so it can be done. I think the "destination" factor of Vegas could help lure visiting fans by the thousands especially from the big markets. While Vegas is a party city, people do look for other diversions while they are there. They see plays, shows, comedians, etc. If the ballpark was not too far removed from the strip or Fremont St. it could lure quite a few tourists who are just looking for a night out at the ball game before heading to the casinos to gamble. Could Vegas really perform any worse than the Florida teams at the gate?

I can't see it happening. Are they going to not allow baseball betting? I know they shut down all NBA betting for All Star day when it was there.
As far as the gambling goes...I don't see how a team being in Vegas changes a player/ref/ump's ability to "fix" a game. They could do it just as easily from other cities as they could while being in Vegas. I think to assume the players would fall under more influence to bet on baseball is not accurate. If they wanted to bet on baseball, it would be very easy to get that done from Chicago, Detroit, or anywhere else.

Hitmen77
02-10-2011, 10:37 AM
Orlando is a transient/touristy city too and the Magic have found a successful formula so it can be done. I think the "destination" factor of Vegas could help lure visiting fans by the thousands especially from the big markets. While Vegas is a party city, people do look for other diversions while they are there. They see plays, shows, comedians, etc. If the ballpark was not too far removed from the strip or Fremont St. it could lure quite a few tourists who are just looking for a night out at the ball game before heading to the casinos to gamble. Could Vegas really perform any worse than the Florida teams at the gate?


NBA teams have half as many games and have to sell half as many seats per game than MLB teams. There's just no comparison. The top drawing NBA team draws 850,000 fans per year. That amount would be a total failure for an MLB team....even twice that amount would be seen as a problem for an MLB team.

You can't build a fanbase on just vacationers. There's no way you're going to get 30,000 a night mostly based on people who are on vacation there who are looking for something else to do.

Plus, as already has been mentioned, MLB teams are also heavily reliant on local TV money and Vegas has a rather small TV market.

Nellie_Fox
02-10-2011, 12:12 PM
And Florida is much more heavily and densely populated than Nevada is. Once you leave Las Vegas, there's not much for a long distance.

ewokpelts
02-10-2011, 12:51 PM
I can't see it happening. Are they going to not allow baseball betting? I know they shut down all NBA betting for All Star day when it was there.
It's been reported that the sportsbooks would ban mlb bets if a team came to vegas.

ewokpelts
02-10-2011, 12:54 PM
NBA teams have half as many games and have to sell half as many seats per game than MLB teams. There's just no comparison. The top drawing NBA team draws 850,000 fans per year. That amount would be a total failure for an MLB team....even twice that amount would be seen as a problem for an MLB team.

You can't build a fanbase on just vacationers. There's no way you're going to get 30,000 a night mostly based on people who are on vacation there who are looking for something else to do.

Plus, as already has been mentioned, MLB teams are also heavily reliant on local TV money and Vegas has a rather small TV market.one thing that helps MLB if they go to vegas is the remaping of tv territory. las vegas righ tnow is considered part of dodgers, angels, giants, a's, padres, AND diamondbacks territory. You you cant watch ANY of those teams on mlb.com or on extra innings. And of course, those games arent on local tv as it is.

A new team in vegas proper will rid the market of SIX teams market restrictions, and allow more subscriptions of those out of market packages.

ewokpelts
02-10-2011, 12:57 PM
People don't realize how hard it is to have a metro area that can support an MLB team. Selling enough tickets for 81 games is a tall order. You can't just rely on casino-goers to draw 2.5 million per year. On top of that, as you mention, MLB teams rely heavily on local TV revenue to be competitive.

By the way, I love your sig from the Andy Hawkins game. What's going on next to Comiskey Park? It looks like a flying saucer is hovering next door.:o:the premium seating would be key to this. if the casinos themselves buy up suites, club seating, and other premium offerings, the team can survive. and dont forget the casino advertising would be a major player in the teams finances.

Lamp81
02-10-2011, 01:37 PM
It's been reported that the sportsbooks would ban mlb bets if a team came to vegas.

I don't know if this is true or not. Nevada did change their laws a couple of years ago to allow betting on the 2 Nevada based Colleges, UNLV and Nevada (Reno).

Ceasars Palace didn't accept bets on NY Knicks games in the past, because they were both owned by the same corporation. That was lifted as they have been split up and sold to other companies.

I'm not sure if the Palms accepts NBA Kings bets, as the Maloof family owns both.

The thing I do know is that MLB isn't a huge money maker for the Sports Books. Nowhere near what NFL, NCAA Football, NBA, and NCAA Basketball bring in. The key factor is that there is no point spread for baseball, everything is bet on the money line. A lot of casual bettors don't understand the money line and how it works. They tend to stay away from MLB and NHL games that feature the money line.

ewokpelts
02-10-2011, 01:45 PM
I don't know if this is true or not. Nevada did change their laws a couple of years ago to allow betting on the 2 Nevada based Colleges, UNLV and Nevada (Reno).

Ceasars Palace didn't accept bets on NY Knicks games in the past, because they were both owned by the same corporation. That was lifted as they have been split up and sold to other companies.

I'm not sure if the Palms accepts NBA Kings bets, as the Maloof family owns both.

The thing I do know is that MLB isn't a huge money maker for the Sports Books. Nowhere near what NFL, NCAA Football, NBA, and NCAA Basketball bring in. The key factor is that there is no point spread for baseball, everything is bet on the money line. A lot of casual bettors don't understand the money line and how it works. They tend to stay away from MLB and NHL games that feature the money line.vegas makes a TON on "cubs to win the world series" bets.

Foulke You
02-11-2011, 06:07 PM
vegas makes a TON on "cubs to win the world series" bets.
I wonder if the guys who run the sports books hear cash register sounds when they see a rube with a blue hat and a red C on it walking up to place their pre-season bets.:tongue:

Foulke You
02-11-2011, 06:20 PM
NBA teams have half as many games and have to sell half as many seats per game than MLB teams. There's just no comparison. The top drawing NBA team draws 850,000 fans per year. That amount would be a total failure for an MLB team....even twice that amount would be seen as a problem for an MLB team.

You can't build a fanbase on just vacationers. There's no way you're going to get 30,000 a night mostly based on people who are on vacation there who are looking for something else to do.

Plus, as already has been mentioned, MLB teams are also heavily reliant on local TV money and Vegas has a rather small TV market.
You make some good points about the 81 home games. They would definitely need local season ticket support. However, if they managed to even get decent local support, the travel fans *could* push them into profitability.

downstairs
02-11-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't know if this is true or not. Nevada did change their laws a couple of years ago to allow betting on the 2 Nevada based Colleges, UNLV and Nevada (Reno).

Ceasars Palace didn't accept bets on NY Knicks games in the past, because they were both owned by the same corporation. That was lifted as they have been split up and sold to other companies.

I'm not sure if the Palms accepts NBA Kings bets, as the Maloof family owns both.

The thing I do know is that MLB isn't a huge money maker for the Sports Books. Nowhere near what NFL, NCAA Football, NBA, and NCAA Basketball bring in. The key factor is that there is no point spread for baseball, everything is bet on the money line. A lot of casual bettors don't understand the money line and how it works. They tend to stay away from MLB and NHL games that feature the money line.

Even I've been confused with what the money line means on a specific game. I've bet a few games for fun, but it is confusing.

Fenway
02-11-2011, 06:55 PM
Even I've been confused with what the money line means on a specific game. I've bet a few games for fun, but it is confusing.

It is really simple but you need to be careful


Chicago Flubs +190
Boston Red Sox -220


If you bet Boston you put up $220 to win $100
If you bet the Flubs you bet $100 to win $190

USUALLY - a sportsbook will list the starters and they must throw ONE pitch for the bet to become official

Lamp81
05-07-2011, 12:48 AM
The latest proposed new stadium for the Las Vegas 51s, AAA team for the Blue Jays. While this does include an NBA ready stadium, it doesn't mention expanding the baseball field for an MLB team, like the previous proposal did.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ralstons-flash/2011/may/06/arena-developer-snags-51s-site-behind-mandalay-bay/