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Fenway
02-06-2011, 01:20 PM
Bud Selig's legacy hinges on the future of signature MLB franchises like the Mets & Dodgers

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/02/05/2011-02-05_bud_seligs_legacy_hinges_on_the_future_of_signa ture_mlb_franchises_like_the_mets.html#ixzz1DChnUC ph

But this morning on WCBS Madden says Selig is so desperate to save the Mets from ruin over the Bernie Madoff fiasco he has asked a couple of existing owners if they would consider buying the Mets and selling their current team.

JR is one of them :?:

DumpJerry
02-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Selig needs to do an open post on WSI. We have the largest collection of sports management experts under one roof. If the financing is there and the WSI group buys the Mets, the White Sox/Mets World Series will become an annual event.

Fenway
02-06-2011, 01:48 PM
Selig needs to do an open post on WSI. We have the largest collection of sports management experts under one roof. If the financing is there and the WSI group buys the Mets, the White Sox/Mets World Series will become an annual event.

My guess is if JR was 10 years younger he would look at it given his NY roots.

The Mets situation is grim, as not only are the tabloids going after the Wilpon's, but yesterday the NY Times really unloaded.

Madoff is the second most hated man in NY (#1 lives in a cave) and the Mets have to start over with new ownership now.

Daver
02-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Bud Selig's legacy hinges on the future of signature MLB franchises like the Mets & Dodgers


Bull.

Bud Selig's legacy is already pretty much established, he made himself the single most powerful commissioner the game has ever had, he forced the MLBPA to back down, and he established the strictest drug policy in American professional sports. He can't be responsible for the mismanagement of a few franchises, with the exception of the Expos fiasco which was dealt with in a positive manner.

SI1020
02-06-2011, 02:06 PM
The article points out the signings of Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia by the Yankees as proof of how thin the talent pool has become. In that vein the C word is brought up and I couldn't agree more.

DumpJerry
02-06-2011, 02:12 PM
Bull.

Bud Selig's legacy is already pretty much established, he made himself the single most powerful commissioner the game has ever had, he forced the MLBPA to back down, and he established the strictest drug policy in American professional sports. He can't be responsible for the mismanagement of a few franchises, with the exception of the Expos fiasco which was dealt with in a positive manner.
Bingo. Not to mention the incredible growth in MLB revenues under his stewardship even while the economy contracted.

Taliesinrk
02-06-2011, 04:40 PM
wild card?

Daver
02-06-2011, 04:42 PM
wild card?

See Dump's post about revenue, even though I personally hate that MLB rewards teams for being also rans.

downstairs
02-06-2011, 04:55 PM
Bull.

Bud Selig's legacy is already pretty much established, he made himself the single most powerful commissioner the game has ever had, he forced the MLBPA to back down, and he established the strictest drug policy in American professional sports. He can't be responsible for the mismanagement of a few franchises, with the exception of the Expos fiasco which was dealt with in a positive manner.

I'm with ya on this one. If teams fail, no one is going to blame Bud. Now if he saves them single-handedly, he'll get credit.

No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

WhiteSox5187
02-06-2011, 05:09 PM
I'm with ya on this one. If teams fail, no one is going to blame Bud. Now if he saves them single-handedly, he'll get credit.

No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

That really speaks to how miserable baseball commissioners have been.

Fenway
02-06-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm with ya on this one. If teams fail, no one is going to blame Bud. Now if he saves them single-handedly, he'll get credit.

No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

Nope - second best - Happy Chandler

http://www.wildcatworld.com/bounce/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/chandler-happy1.gif

One reason...Jackie Robinson

He cost him the job.

Daver
02-06-2011, 05:14 PM
No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

Best and most powerful are mutually exclusive.

Fenway
02-06-2011, 05:19 PM
The Mets are his biggest problem now - he has NO time.

The Dodgers will be in limo for another year. Bud's big mistake was allowing McCourt in to begin with.

The A's will get San Jose. How can the Giants argue that the A's who are now 10 miles from AT&T Park will hurt the Giants by moving 35 miles further away.

The Rays?
http://www.customlicenseplates.com/canadaquebec2larger.jpg

mzh
02-06-2011, 05:27 PM
The Rays?
http://www.customlicenseplates.com/canadaquebec2larger.jpg

In a perfect world this would happen, but there's no way Bud admits the mistake he made by moving the Expos in the first place. As long as Bud Lite is the commish, it ain't happening IMO.

Fenway
02-06-2011, 05:30 PM
In a perfect world this would happen, but there's no way Bud admits the mistake he made by moving the Expos in the first place. As long as Bud Lite is the commish, it ain't happening IMO.

If Quebec breaks ground on a stadium ( after being told if they do they get a team) Bud will drive the truck to Montreal.

Montreal in the AL East would give the team the rivals they never really had in the NL. Toronto, Yankees and Boston and the fanbases of the latter 2 would pour into Montreal.

Whitesox029
02-06-2011, 07:39 PM
If Quebec breaks ground on a stadium ( after being told if they do they get a team) Bud will drive the truck to Montreal.

Montreal in the AL East would give the team the rivals they never really had in the NL. Toronto, Yankees and Boston and the fanbases of the latter 2 would pour into Montreal.
They already pour into Tampa (at least, the Red Sox and Yankee fans do).

Viva Medias B's
02-06-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm with ya on this one. If teams fail, no one is going to blame Bud. Now if he saves them single-handedly, he'll get credit.

No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

When I think about Bud, Pete Rozelle doesn't exactly come to mind.

ewokpelts
02-07-2011, 12:34 AM
In a perfect world this would happen, but there's no way Bud admits the mistake he made by moving the Expos in the first place. As long as Bud Lite is the commish, it ain't happening IMO.if he gets the rays out of thier lease, AND a new public financed stadium in montreal, he'll do it.

look at the minnesota wild, milwaukee brewers, seattle mariners, new york mets, and washington senators as markets that got new teams as other ones left.

Red Barchetta
02-07-2011, 08:35 AM
if he gets the rays out of thier lease, AND a new public financed stadium in montreal, he'll do it.

look at the minnesota wild, milwaukee brewers, seattle mariners, new york mets, and washington senators as markets that got new teams as other ones left.

I agree. Montreal has the fan support if the owners would just "get out of the way". Espcially if they move forward with a downtown ballpark similar to the concept drawing displayed on a previous thread.

I also believe the Giants have no power to stop the A's from moving. Bud will get that done leaving only the Rays in need of a new ballpark.

Someone with a bunch of $$$ will get the Mets at a pretty good price.

asindc
02-07-2011, 08:47 AM
... No matter what Bud will go down as the best commissioner ever.

Rather clever joke... made me chuckle and lau... wait, what? You were being serious?!

tebman
02-07-2011, 09:23 AM
Bud Selig's legacy is already pretty much established, he made himself the single most powerful commissioner the game has ever had, he forced the MLBPA to back down, and he established the strictest drug policy in American professional sports. He can't be responsible for the mismanagement of a few franchises, with the exception of the Expos fiasco which was dealt with in a positive manner.

All true, though I indulge myself in clinging to an old Sox fan's animosity toward Selig for his aggressive efforts to move the Sox to Seattle in 1975.

He was able to get satisfaction when Veeck sold to JR's group before the 1981 season. Selig didn't like Veeck, partly because of Veeck's (mostly funny) cracks about Selig and the other owners, but mostly because Veeck's 11th-hour White Sox purchase in 1975 prevented MLB from moving the team to Seattle. Selig was heavily involved in moving the Seattle Pilots to Milwaukee to become the Brewers in 1970, provoking a lawsuit by Seattle interests against MLB. The collapse of the White Sox would solve MLB's problem by moving the Sox to Seattle.

Veeck and the very public save-the-Sox campaign that followed screwed up Bud's scheme. Selig headed the owners' committee that approved new owners, and despite putting an onerous last-minute financing requirement on Veeck's group, Selig failed to prevent the purchase. The upshot was no move to Seattle, no timely lawsuit settlement, and an American League expansion two years later that created the Mariners.

Having said all that, Selig has helped the owners make a lot of money, so I guess he's a good commissioner. Harumph.

Hitmen77
02-07-2011, 10:29 AM
Bud Selig's legacy hinges on the future of signature MLB franchises like the Mets & Dodgers

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/02/05/2011-02-05_bud_seligs_legacy_hinges_on_the_future_of_signa ture_mlb_franchises_like_the_mets.html#ixzz1DChnUC ph

But this morning on WCBS Madden says Selig is so desperate to save the Mets from ruin over the Bernie Madoff fiasco he has asked a couple of existing owners if they would consider buying the Mets and selling their current team.

JR is one of them :?:

Despite the McCourt fiasco, I wouldn't exactly say the future of the Dodgers is in danger. Let's face it, they're a cinch to draw 40,000 people a game being in the 2nd largest city in the US and they must make a ton in local TV revenue. I can only imagine that they're one of the most profitable teams in MLB. They've been to the playoffs in 3 of the last 5 years. They're hardly the laughingstocks of the league.

I don't know too much about the Mets ownership crisis. But being the National League team in New York City and in a shiny new $1 billion ballpark, they'll continue to be a very valuable franchise.

The A's and the Rays are MLB's biggest problems. The A's are failing in the Coliseum and there are serious roadblocks to them getting a new facility in the Bay Area. It would be a huge mistake IMO for MLB to let them leave Northern California since the large population and big corporate presence there should easily be able to support 2 successful teams.

The Rays can't draw fans even as pennant winners, but are locked into a lease for another 16 years. The problem is that MLB really doesn't have any other good markets for them to move to. Maybe Montreal, but I'll believe that Quebec will build a publicly financed baseball stadium when I see it.

Bull.

Bud Selig's legacy is already pretty much established, he made himself the single most powerful commissioner the game has ever had, he forced the MLBPA to back down, and he established the strictest drug policy in American professional sports. He can't be responsible for the mismanagement of a few franchises, with the exception of the Expos fiasco which was dealt with in a positive manner.

I'm no fan of Selig, but don't forget that under his watch (did he become commissioner in 1992?), a majority of MLB teams have moved into state-of-the-art, popular ballparks (most built at public expense). 27 of the 30 teams are now in well-liked baseball-only facilities. This has meant $$$millions in revenue for the owners. Who cares (if you're an owner) if KC, Pittsburgh, etc have a very slim chance of being able to compete in the standings, the teams (including those bottom teams) are all making a profit.

doublem23
02-07-2011, 10:48 AM
The A's and the Rays are MLB's biggest problems. The A's are failing in the Coliseum and there are serious roadblocks to them getting a new facility in the Bay Area. It would be a huge mistake IMO for MLB to let them leave Northern California since the large population and big corporate presence there should easily be able to support 2 successful teams.

The Rays can't draw fans even as pennant winners, but are locked into a lease for another 16 years. The problem is that MLB really doesn't have any other good markets for them to move to. Maybe Montreal, but I'll believe that Quebec will build a publicly financed baseball stadium when I see it.

Yes, thank you. Anyone looking at the Dodgers and Mets and the front office troubles they have and think that's the next great problem for baseball and the commissioner to resolve is frankly, out of their ****ing minds. Baseball is dying across the country because of the extreme lack of competitive balance across the league. Look at how many American League teams struggle with attendance every year, think that's a coincidence since the league is dominated annually by the Red Sox and Yankees?

Selig's legacy will be defined on how he attacks this problem. Is he short-sighted and sit back while the money rolls in and the sports' fanbase continues to erode from lack of interest or does he take an aggressive stance and try to bring some sense of competitive order to the sport and not just allow the richest teams to buy the best players?

The Dodgers and Mets. :rolling:

g0g0
02-07-2011, 10:56 AM
The success/failure of these 4 teams doesn't touch his legacy at all IMO. The Dodgers are going through a nasty divorce and the Mets are in a financial mess due to one of the biggest pyramid schemes ever. As for the Rays and A's, these are just small market teams that need to make changes. The A's have been belly-aching for a while now, and Tampa just doesn't seem to care about the Rays.

The one problem I see is the fact that he expanded when I think they should have held and/or contracted. But hey, who's going to contract in pro sports in this day and age? They all want more, more, more...

Red Barchetta
02-07-2011, 11:10 AM
The success/failure of these 4 teams doesn't touch his legacy at all IMO. The Dodgers are going through a nasty divorce and the Mets are in a financial mess due to one of the biggest pyramid schemes ever. As for the Rays and A's, these are just small market teams that need to make changes. The A's have been belly-aching for a while now, and Tampa just doesn't seem to care about the Rays.

The one problem I see is the fact that he expanded when I think they should have held and/or contracted. But hey, who's going to contract in pro sports in this day and age? They all want more, more, more...

IMO the only fans who like Tropicana are the ones who live in close proximity to the "ballpark" and have grown comfortable knowing that they can walk up to any game 30 minutes before the first pitch is thrown and score decent, lower deck seats while watching a game in a controlled air-conditioned environment. They simply cannot expand that fanbase.

Experiment over, move on. Miami appears to be the only Florida market that has a shot (and a plan) to support MLB. The Tampa/St. Pete area is rich in tradition with spring training, so maybe they should turn the Dome into a minor league/spring training facility for one of the northern teams.

If not, there are always tractor pulls....

ewokpelts
02-07-2011, 01:16 PM
All true, though I indulge myself in clinging to an old Sox fan's animosity toward Selig for his aggressive efforts to move the Sox to Seattle in 1975.

He was able to get satisfaction when Veeck sold to JR's group before the 1981 season. Selig didn't like Veeck, partly because of Veeck's (mostly funny) cracks about Selig and the other owners, but mostly because Veeck's 11th-hour White Sox purchase in 1975 prevented MLB from moving the team to Seattle. Selig was heavily involved in moving the Seattle Pilots to Milwaukee to become the Brewers in 1970, provoking a lawsuit by Seattle interests against MLB. The collapse of the White Sox would solve MLB's problem by moving the Sox to Seattle.

Veeck and the very public save-the-Sox campaign that followed screwed up Bud's scheme. Selig headed the owners' committee that approved new owners, and despite putting an onerous last-minute financing requirement on Veeck's group, Selig failed to prevent the purchase. The upshot was no move to Seattle, no timely lawsuit settlement, and an American League expansion two years later that created the Mariners.

Having said all that, Selig has helped the owners make a lot of money, so I guess he's a good commissioner. Harumph.i imagine bud was heavily involved with the pilots moving to milwaukee considering he BOUGHT the pilots.

TommyJohn
02-07-2011, 02:18 PM
i imagine bud was heavily involved with the pilots moving to milwaukee considering he BOUGHT the pilots.

He originally tried to buy the White Sox in 1969, but he was foiled because the American League did not want to abandon the number 2 market. 1975 was slightly different because the A's were going to move to Chicago and rename themselves the White Sox to keep the franchise name going.

Viva Medias B's
02-07-2011, 04:43 PM
I agree. Montreal has the fan support if the owners would just "get out of the way". Espcially if they move forward with a downtown ballpark similar to the concept drawing displayed on a previous thread.

I also believe the Giants have no power to stop the A's from moving. Bud will get that done leaving only the Rays in need of a new ballpark.

Someone with a bunch of $$$ will get the Mets at a pretty good price.

Why would the Giants want to stop the A's from moving? Wouldn't they want the Bay Area all to themselves?

Hitmen77
02-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Yes, thank you. Anyone looking at the Dodgers and Mets and the front office troubles they have and think that's the next great problem for baseball and the commissioner to resolve is frankly, out of their ****ing minds. Baseball is dying across the country because of the extreme lack of competitive balance across the league. Look at how many American League teams struggle with attendance every year, think that's a coincidence since the league is dominated annually by the Red Sox and Yankees?

Selig's legacy will be defined on how he attacks this problem. Is he short-sighted and sit back while the money rolls in and the sports' fanbase continues to erode from lack of interest or does he take an aggressive stance and try to bring some sense of competitive order to the sport and not just allow the richest teams to buy the best players?

The Dodgers and Mets. :rolling:

Exactly. This is a bigger challenge to Selig's legacy than what's going on with the McCourts and the rich, successful Dodgers. Sure, all the owners are making nice profits and overall attendance is high, but baseball is at risk of losing the interest of Americans outside of the major markets. I think there is more interest in NL cities because more of those teams have a shot at the wild card every year plus no team has a permanent lock on playoff spots in any of the 3 NL divisions. NL teams also don't frequently get rebuffed from advancing to the LCS by the Yankees and Red Sox (who have made the ALCS 10 of the last 13 years). Last year, once you get past NY, Boston, and LA (and Minnesota's new ballpark attendance bump), you have to drop all the way to 14th place for the next-best drawing AL team - which was the pennant-winning Rangers. 6 AL teams (nearly half the league) failed to draw 2 million last year.

The problem and challenge for Bud is that there is no easy ready-made answer. An NBA or NHL-style cap isn't the answer. The NFL approach isn't comparable because their TV revenue is from network contracts. Big market NFL teams don't make a killing on local TV deals like they do in MLB. But that doesn't mean something shouldn't be done.

It should bother him to see that a championship match up between Pittsburgh and Green Bay in the NFL is seen as a thrilling classic match up between two premiere franchises, but if you had a match up between the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Milwaukee Brewers (yes, I know they can't meet in the WS anymore), everyone would cry "who cares?! they're small markets, therefore America is NOT interested!" Hell, even a matchup between SF and Texas (Dallas) - not exactly small markets - still drew mutterings of how people aren't interested because NY, Boston...or perhaps Philadelphia aren't in it.

Hitmen77
02-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Why would the Giants want to stop the A's from moving? Wouldn't they want the Bay Area all to themselves?

He meant the Giants want to stop the A's from moving to San Jose. The Giants have "territorial rights" to San Jose, however they weren't awarded those rights until 1993 when they themselves tried to move there.

GoSox2K3
02-07-2011, 06:11 PM
Bud Selig's legacy hinges on the future of signature MLB franchises like the Mets & Dodgers

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/02/05/2011-02-05_bud_seligs_legacy_hinges_on_the_future_of_signa ture_mlb_franchises_like_the_mets.html#ixzz1DChnUC ph

But this morning on WCBS Madden says Selig is so desperate to save the Mets from ruin over the Bernie Madoff fiasco he has asked a couple of existing owners if they would consider buying the Mets and selling their current team.



http://www.businessinsider.com/rays-stuart-sternberg-mets-2011-2

This sounds like speculation, but one of the existing owners that might sell their team to buy the Mets could be the Rays' owner.

Fenway
02-07-2011, 06:12 PM
He originally tried to buy the White Sox in 1969, but he was foiled because the American League did not want to abandon the number 2 market. 1975 was slightly different because the A's were going to move to Chicago and rename themselves the White Sox to keep the franchise name going.

Bud wasn't a fan of Montreal either as they were awarded the NL expansion franchise. Bud has told the story he started smiling when Warren Giles formed a M with his mouth but Montreal was said instead of Milwaukee.

Montreal got the team because Walter O'Malley had fond memories of his AAA farm team that he said a coule of years almost made more than Brooklyn. O'Malley however pulled out when Brooklyn moved to LA and the Royals moved to Syracuse where they remain.

WhiteSox5187
02-07-2011, 06:29 PM
Exactly. This is a bigger challenge to Selig's legacy than what's going on with the McCourts and the rich, successful Dodgers. Sure, all the owners are making nice profits and overall attendance is high, but baseball is at risk of losing the interest of Americans outside of the major markets. I think there is more interest in NL cities because more of those teams have a shot at the wild card every year plus no team has a permanent lock on playoff spots in any of the 3 NL divisions. NL teams also don't frequently get rebuffed from advancing to the LCS by the Yankees and Red Sox (who have made the ALCS 10 of the last 13 years). Last year, once you get past NY, Boston, and LA (and Minnesota's new ballpark attendance bump), you have to drop all the way to 14th place for the next-best drawing AL team - which was the pennant-winning Rangers. 6 AL teams (nearly half the league) failed to draw 2 million last year.

The problem and challenge for Bud is that there is no easy ready-made answer. An NBA or NHL-style cap isn't the answer. The NFL approach isn't comparable because their TV revenue is from network contracts. Big market NFL teams don't make a killing on local TV deals like they do in MLB. But that doesn't mean something shouldn't be done.

It should bother him to see that a championship match up between Pittsburgh and Green Bay in the NFL is seen as a thrilling classic match up between two premiere franchises, but if you had a match up between the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Milwaukee Brewers (yes, I know they can't meet in the WS anymore), everyone would cry "who cares?! they're small markets, therefore America is NOT interested!" Hell, even a matchup between SF and Texas (Dallas) - not exactly small markets - still drew mutterings of how people aren't interested because NY, Boston...or perhaps Philadelphia aren't in it.

I agree with this, every time I hear Bud say "The game has never been stronger in any way you measure it," I always want to say "Then how come no one cares about the World Series? How come baseball can only market around two (maybe three teams) nationally?" Baseball is making a lot of money but it is losing its cultural relevancy. Plus the game is getting closer and closer to a generation of kids who haven't seen a World Series game because they end at around twelve.

In my opinion Selig's legacy will be making the owners lots of money while killing competitive balance in some divisions, sitting back and doing nothing while some of the game's most sacred records were destroyed, cancelling the '94 World Series and watching as the World Series became more and more culturally irrelevant.

GoSox2K3
02-08-2011, 10:15 AM
The Dodgers and Mets have serious ownership problems. But let's get real, the current issues aren't going to sink either franchise - they're both sitting on a gold mine in NY and LA. Do people want to talk about two "classic" franchises that are really going down the drain? How about the Orioles and Indians.

The O's from the 1960s through 1980s were a premier MLB franchise. In 1992, the opened the grand-daddy of all retro parks: the famous Camden Yards.....and yet they've squandered that all away with lousy ownership and now there are tons of empty seats at baseball's modern shrine. The O's only drew 1.7 million to Camden Yards last year.

The Indians are an original AL team dating back to 1901. They have a very popular modern ballpark and had an incredible run of success in the late 1990s and even as recently as 2007 were one game away from the World Series.....and yet all their success is a house of cards. Free agency comes and say goodbye to everybody. Even selling out 455 straight games wasn't enough to keep that going. Now they're dead last in attendance. Is Selig worried about Cleveland? The beloved Jacobs Field is a ghost town.

If Quebec breaks ground on a stadium ( after being told if they do they get a team) Bud will drive the truck to Montreal.

Montreal in the AL East would give the team the rivals they never really had in the NL. Toronto, Yankees and Boston and the fanbases of the latter 2 would pour into Montreal.

The proximity of Montreal to those 3 other teams will help, but putting a Montreal team in the AL East still risks having them shut out of the playoffs year after year and seeing fan interest wane.

I know the Rays have made the playoffs and WS under these circumstances in the last few years, but IMO that's really a "lightning in a bottle" situation for a small market team. They're not going to always be able to just rack up a bunch of good draft picks and build another pennant winner from scratch. More likely, an AL East team in Montreal might be more like Toronto....never bad and not a small market, but just good enough for 3rd place and then interest in the team fades after years stuck in this rut (remember, the Blue Jays were one of MLB's top draws in the early 1990s)

Baseball is dying across the country because of the extreme lack of competitive balance across the league. ...

Selig's legacy will be defined on how he attacks this problem. Is he short-sighted and sit back while the money rolls in and the sports' fanbase continues to erode from lack of interest or does he take an aggressive stance and try to bring some sense of competitive order to the sport and not just allow the richest teams to buy the best players?

The Dodgers and Mets. :rolling:

I agree with this, every time I hear Bud say "The game has never been stronger in any way you measure it," I always want to say "Then how come no one cares about the World Series? How come baseball can only market around two (maybe three teams) nationally?" Baseball is making a lot of money but it is losing its cultural relevancy. Plus the game is getting closer and closer to a generation of kids who haven't seen a World Series game because they end at around twelve.


I think this is a big problem in getting kids outside of the few biggest markets to stay interested in baseball. They're not going to develop a strong attachment to their team if any stars they have leave once they hit free agency. Joe Mauer is the exception to this trend (perhaps thanks to the fact that he's from Minn.). Perhaps Ichiro is too (thanks to Seattle's Asian population). Otherwise, teams are almost always losing players in their prime to NYY, Bos, and a few others. Yes, that's good for NY fans, Boston fans, ESPN, Ken Burns, etc. But that's bad for building interesting in baseball across the rest of the US.

Seattle said goodbye to A-Rod and the Big Unit, Cleveland said goodbye to Thome and Manny, Milwaukee will say goodbye to Fielder, TB said goodbye to Carl Crawford. Yes, I know, the answer is obviously that all the small market owners are cheap while all the owners willing to spend to win just happen to be in the big markets. Incredible coincidence! :rolleyes: Even the mid market teams that keep their stars (Twins and Mauer) do so by probably handcuffing the rest of their payroll by devoting something like 1/5 of it to one guy.

asindc
02-08-2011, 10:23 AM
The Dodgers and Mets have serious ownership problems. But let's get real, the current issues aren't going to sink either franchise - they're both sitting on a gold mine in NY and LA. Do people want to talk about two "classic" franchises that are really going down the drain? How about the Orioles and Indians.

The O's from the 1960s through 1980s were a premier MLB franchise. In 1992, the opened the grand-daddy of all retro parks: the famous Camden Yards.....and yet they've squandered that all away with lousy ownership and now there are tons of empty seats at baseball's modern shrine. The O's only drew 1.7 million to Camden Yards last year.

The Indians are an original AL team dating back to 1901. They have a very popular modern ballpark and had an incredible run of success in the late 1990s and even as recently as 2007 were one game away from the World Series.....and yet all their success is a house of cards. Free agency comes and say goodbye to everybody. Even selling out 455 straight games wasn't enough to keep that going. Now they're dead last in attendance. Is Selig worried about Cleveland? The beloved Jacobs Field is a ghost town.



The proximity of Montreal to those 3 other teams will help, but putting a Montreal team in the AL East still risks having them shut out of the playoffs year after year and seeing fan interest wane.

I know the Rays have made the playoffs and WS under these circumstances in the last few years, but IMO that's really a "lightning in a bottle" situation for a small market team. They're not going to always be able to just rack up a bunch of good draft picks and build another pennant winner from scratch. More likely, an AL East team in Montreal might be more like Toronto....never bad and not a small market, but just good enough for 3rd place and then interest in the team fades after years stuck in this rut (remember, the Blue Jays were one of MLB's top draws in the early 1990s)





I think this is a big problem in getting kids outside of the few biggest markets to stay interested in baseball. They're not going to develop a strong attachment to their team if any stars they have leave once they hit free agency. Joe Mauer is the exception to this trend (perhaps thanks to the fact that he's from Minn.). Perhaps Ichiro is too (thanks to Seattle's Asian population). Otherwise, teams are almost always losing players in their prime to NYY, Bos, and a few others. Yes, that's good for NY fans, Boston fans, ESPN, Ken Burns, etc. But that's bad for building interesting in baseball across the rest of the US.

Seattle said goodbye to A-Rod and the Big Unit, Cleveland said goodbye to Thome and Manny, Milwaukee will say goodbye to Fielder, TB said goodbye to Carl Crawford. Yes, I know, the answer is obviously that all the small market owners are cheap while all the owners willing to spend to win just happen to be in the big markets. Incredible coincidence! :rolleyes: Even the mid market teams that keep their stars (Twins and Mauer) do so by probably handcuffing the rest of their payroll by devoting something like 1/5 of it to one guy.

Excellent post.

AZChiSoxFan
02-08-2011, 11:52 PM
See Dump's post about revenue, even though I personally hate that MLB rewards teams for being also rans.

???

Even with the wild card, in most years you still see teams that finish 20 games over .500 that don't make the playoffs.

The wild card has served to keep fans in many cities still interested throughout Aug and Sep.

russ99
02-09-2011, 12:21 PM
If those "using Madoff-Ponzi money to fund club operations" lawsuit allegations are true, the Mets could be in big, big trouble.

I'd think it goes beyond the owners, the club should also be punished, if Bud were any kind of commissioner...