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View Full Version : Keith Law Ranks MLB Farm Systems


CAREY33
01-26-2011, 07:59 PM
He ranked the Sox 28 :

28. Chicago White Sox (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/chw/chicago-white-sox)
It was hard to get to 10 names for this system, but it will produce at least two players who'll help the major league club try to win the AL Central this year.

Daver
01-26-2011, 08:01 PM
I value Keith Law's opinion almost as much as I do bat guano.

Almost.

DirtySox
01-26-2011, 08:09 PM
Florida and Milwaukee were the two teams below the Sox if anyone was wondering.

CAREY33
01-26-2011, 09:09 PM
I value Keith Law's opinion almost as much as I do bat guano.

Almost.


Awesome! Thats great.

Lip Man 1
01-26-2011, 09:30 PM
Law has never had anything good to say about the Sox or their system anyway. Besides he's a Royals fan. Shows you how much he knows! (LOL)

Lip

A. Cavatica
01-26-2011, 10:00 PM
But I have yet to find any credible analyst who would place the Sox much higher than that.

DirtySox
01-26-2011, 10:10 PM
But I have yet to find any credible analyst who would place the Sox much higher than that.

Indeed. The system is wretched and it's unanimously ranked as such.

SephClone89
01-26-2011, 10:32 PM
But but Jordan Danks! Carlos Torres! T-Flow!

Pretty frustrating.

How does an organization go about remedying this?

Daver
01-26-2011, 10:43 PM
But but Jordan Danks! Carlos Torres! T-Flow!

Pretty frustrating.

How does an organization go about remedying this?

Spending the money to scout and develop talent, it really isn't rocket surgery.

DirtySox
01-26-2011, 10:55 PM
But but Jordan Danks! Carlos Torres! T-Flow!

Pretty frustrating.

How does an organization go about remedying this?

Daver will likely have some input on the developmental aspects, but the Sox need to start spending on the draft as well as on international prospects. Not that it was a hotbed before for the organization, but the Sox haven't spent a dime on international prospects since the Wilder scandal. Also, they rarely go over slot in the draft and the overall draft spending/budget has been bottom of the barrel amongst MLB teams for years now. Quite often the Sox will spend less in 2 years on the draft combined than many teams do in 1 year. Many would also argue that the draft philosophy still needs change. The organization leans heavily on safer picks, primarily college arms that have a greater chance of contributing to the big league club even if it's at a marginal level. It would be nice to see more picks that have higher ceilings despite the fact they might not reach it. Mitchell, Poreda, and Trayce Thompson are some recent picks that buck the trend but it would be nice to see the trend continue. Lastly, the Sox seem allergic to prep players in early rounds though I'm not sure why. If a high school player is the BPA in the 1st/Supplemental/2nd round, they need to pull the trigger.

Domeshot17
01-26-2011, 11:10 PM
Daver will likely have some input on the developmental aspects, but the Sox need to start spending on the draft as well as on international prospects. Not that it was a hotbed before for the organization, but the Sox haven't spent a dime on international prospects since the Wilder scandal. Also, they rarely go over slot in the draft and the overall draft spending/budget has been bottom of the barrel amongst MLB teams for years now. Quite often the Sox will spend less in 2 years on the draft combined than many teams do in 1 year. Many would also argue that the draft philosophy still needs change. The organization leans heavily on safer picks, primarily college arms that have a greater chance of contributing to the big league club even if it's at a marginal level. It would be nice to see more picks that have higher ceilings despite the fact they might not reach it. Mitchell, Poreda, and Trayce Thompson are some recent picks that buck the trend but it would be nice to see the trend continue. Lastly, the Sox seem allergic to prep players in early rounds though I'm not sure why. If a high school player is the BPA in the 1st/Supplemental/2nd round, they need to pull the trigger.

They rely FAR too much on the easy sign guys. Guys like Broadway, Poreda, Phlegley, Mitchell even (I didn't hate that pick though), guys who they know will sign quick and won't demand a high dollar amount.

This is the biggest problem with the Sox. The myth the farm is bad because they don't get high picks is laughable. Its the failure to go out for a high upside pick or an above slot guy that has killllleedddd us. It doesn't help the team has no idea how to develop anyone, but we aren't putting much in there to start.

Lip Man 1
01-27-2011, 11:42 AM
I remember reading here at WSI, comments from someone along with a quote that the 'philosophy issue' regarding the draft and the minor leagues comes from JR and EE, that when they first bought the team they said the way to build a contender is through free agency and trades.

If that's true, and I have no idea if it is with the owners, than that may help explain and answer the questions that are being posed here in this thread. (Although if that statement was true, the Sox wouldn't have had long periods when they basically shunned free agency altogether...)

Lip

guillensdisciple
01-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Hey now, if Gordo and Sale were still in the minors we would have ourselves a hell of a system. It's not our fault we send our players to the bigs right away.

DirtySox
01-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Hey now, if Gordo and Sale were still in the minors we would have ourselves a hell of a system. It's not our fault we send our players to the bigs right away.

This is rationalization.

Besides, for all prospect lists Sale is still considered one. He still has rookie eligibility. The Sox are bottom 3 even with Chris included. Once Sale and Morel graduate this year, with no 1st round pick in the draft, and the lack of any expenditure on later picks, things are going to get even uglier. If Mitchell doesn't rebound and some sleepers don't make the next step, I'm hard-pressed to see any improvement in the coming year.

DirtySox
01-27-2011, 12:02 PM
I remember reading here at WSI, comments from someone along with a quote that the 'philosophy issue' regarding the draft and the minor leagues comes from JR and EE, that when they first bought the team they said the way to build a contender is through free agency and trades.

If that's true, and I have no idea if it is with the owners, than that may help explain and answer the questions that are being posed here in this thread. (Although if that statement was true, the Sox wouldn't have had long periods when they basically shunned free agency altogether...)

Lip

If the philosophy is indeed to use the farm system solely to trade for established players, one would hope that more resources would be pumped into it. I don't think many big league clubs are salivating at the Sox top prospects which is disproportionately relief pitchers and fringe guys. I mean more and better prospects is more chips to acquire more and better veterans right?

russ99
01-27-2011, 12:05 PM
This is the biggest problem with the Sox. The myth the farm is bad because they don't get high picks is laughable. Its the failure to go out for a high upside pick or an above slot guy that has killllleedddd us. It doesn't help the team has no idea how to develop anyone, but we aren't putting much in there to start.

It's very doubtful this will change under Jerry. He's one of the biggest supporters of Bud's slot system. Can't blame Kenny and the scouting staff for what the Chairman doesn't want to do.

Maybe they'll fix the draft and international FA system in the next CBA and get rid of this ridiculous slot idea, that doesn't work.

The Immigrant
01-27-2011, 12:15 PM
I remember reading here at WSI, comments from someone along with a quote that the 'philosophy issue' regarding the draft and the minor leagues comes from JR and EE, that when they first bought the team they said the way to build a contender is through free agency and trades.



They have proven themselves to be willing to spend money in the draft, but they are opposed to paying over slot (which is what you often have to do for the top talent, especially if you're picking late in the first round). Not too long ago the Sox had one of the top farm systems in the league, even with Jerry and Eddie as the owners, so these things obviously come and go in cycles.

Oh yeah, **** Keith Law.

DirtySox
01-27-2011, 12:32 PM
It's very doubtful this will change under Jerry. He's one of the biggest supporters of Bud's slot system. Can't blame Kenny and the scouting staff for what the Chairman doesn't want to do.

Maybe they'll fix the draft and international FA system in the next CBA and get rid of this ridiculous slot idea, that doesn't work.

Indeed.

Many seem to think this will be the last draft year without hard slotting. Combine that with a very impressive draft class and many teams are going to splurge this June.

CAREY33
01-27-2011, 07:58 PM
Oh yeah, **** Keith Law.[/QUOTE]

I don't get all the Keith Law hate on here. I know its percieved that he is a Sox hater, but I just think he calles em as he sees em.

Daver
01-27-2011, 08:48 PM
Oh yeah, **** Keith Law.

I don't get all the Keith Law hate on here. I know its percieved that he is a Sox hater, but I just think he calles em as he sees em.

Well, there are a lot of people that can review scouting reports and render an opinion based on them, which is all that Kieth Law does, and he attempts to do it for every team, I can read scouting reports and form my own opinions based on the film made available to me.

At least Phil Rogers concentrates on one team when he reviews the same data and publishes an opinion.

Daver
01-27-2011, 09:00 PM
Daver will likely have some input on the developmental aspects, but the Sox need to start spending on the draft as well as on international prospects. Not that it was a hotbed before for the organization, but the Sox haven't spent a dime on international prospects since the Wilder scandal. Also, they rarely go over slot in the draft and the overall draft spending/budget has been bottom of the barrel amongst MLB teams for years now. Quite often the Sox will spend less in 2 years on the draft combined than many teams do in 1 year. Many would also argue that the draft philosophy still needs change. The organization leans heavily on safer picks, primarily college arms that have a greater chance of contributing to the big league club even if it's at a marginal level. It would be nice to see more picks that have higher ceilings despite the fact they might not reach it. Mitchell, Poreda, and Trayce Thompson are some recent picks that buck the trend but it would be nice to see the trend continue. Lastly, the Sox seem allergic to prep players in early rounds though I'm not sure why. If a high school player is the BPA in the 1st/Supplemental/2nd round, they need to pull the trigger.

The teams that are truly successful at building through the draft do not go out of their way to overpay for unproven talent, they scout more players and draft smarter, no team in MLB scouts more players than the Twins, for every single amateur player the Sox scout the Twins scout five. I live in the Chicago area and I know more Twins scouts than I do Sox scouts, that tell you anything?

As far as the whole slot thing, I can see the MLBPA agreeing to strict caps on money spent on draftees, and eliminating agents cashing in on unproven talent, as a concession to removing the restrictions on untendered free agent players, in the long run the MLBPA exists to serve the players that actually do make it.

cws05champ
01-28-2011, 01:00 PM
The teams that are truly successful at building through the draft do not go out of their way to overpay for unproven talent, they scout more players and draft smarter, no team in MLB scouts more players than the Twins, for every single amateur player the Sox scout the Twins scout five. I live in the Chicago area and I know more Twins scouts than I do Sox scouts, that tell you anything?

As far as the whole slot thing, I can see the MLBPA agreeing to strict caps on money spent on draftees, and eliminating agents cashing in on unproven talent, as a concession to removing the restrictions on untendered free agent players, in the long run the MLBPA exists to serve the players that actually do make it.

Right, just paying over slot is one aspect of it. The Sox just have not done much well in the farm comparatively to other teams. Hire more/better scouts, invest in more Int'l facilities and Int'l signings, gamble on higher upside guys in the draft, pay over slot for high upside if deemed necessary and then you have to have a better player development structure in place.

I have no problem with the way KW uses prospects to get established veterans(most of the time), but there is a disconnect in the organisation. If you use prospects as currency, then you have to have more in the prospect cupboard than what we have...and the way to do that is all of the things mentioned above.